Death penalty repeal to go before California voters

[QuickZ06]

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - California voters will decide in November whether to repeal the death penalty in a state that is home to nearly a quarter of the nation's death row inmates, after activists collected the more than 500,000 signatures needed to put the measure on the ballot.

The ballot initiative focuses on the high cost of the death penalty in a state that has executed 13 people since capital punishment was reinstated in the nation in 1976. Another 723 inmates sit on death row pending lengthy and expensive appeals.

The move, which comes as a number of states reconsider capital punishment, would abolish execution as the maximum sentence in murder convictions and replace it with life imprisonment.

If the measure passes, it was expected to save the state in the "high tens of millions of dollars annually," according to an estimate of the fiscal impact of the bill that is included in the text of the measure.

"We've spent billions of dollars killing 13 people. There is a much better system," said Steve Smith, a campaign consultant for SAFE, which got the initiative on the ballot. By contrast, Texas has executed 481 people during the same time period.

The ballot measure was approved as a growing number of states question the use of the death penalty, and comes less than two weeks after Connecticut lawmakers voted to repeal the death penalty there.

California could join 17 other states and the District of Columbia without capital punishment, assuming the Connecticut law goes into effect.
"It's unusual and could be historic. I don't think any state has removed the death penalty through referendum since the 1960s. That was Oregon. They (later) reinstated it," said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center.
"In most states, it's a legislative process," he added.

Article here. http://news.yahoo.com/california-measure-repeal-death-penalty-qualifies-ballot-004636508.html

[Vanilluxe]

This is called direct democracy and I applaud individuals in my state coming out for a cause.

[QuickZ06]

Bump!

[JebSanderson]

Easy way to cut down costs, hang them 24 hours after they are sentenced like they do in Japan.

[Sam I am]

Easy way to cut down costs, hang them 24 hours after they are sentenced like they do in Japan.


I for one do not want to see our current justice system emulate that of Japan's

[JebSanderson]

I for one do not want to see our current justice system emulate that of Japan's

And I don't want to see murders get to spend life in prison clothed, fed, housed and entertained by taxpayer dollars.

[Demigod]

Easy way to cut down costs, hang them 24 hours after they are sentenced like they do in Japan.

Well they do not do it exactly like that.They don't tell you when you get executed it could be in 24 hours 3 days and maybe a couple of years.One day they would come in your cell take you and hang you.Then in 24 hours they tell your family you died.Most of the prisoners that are on the death sentence actually beg to be killed fast because the expecting game would drive a man crazy.

They basically treat the criminals as domestic animals but + the expectation of death.

[Demigod]

And I don't want to see murders get to spend life in prison clothed, fed, housed and entertained by taxpayer dollars.

Then they should work for it like in the old days,what he produces is what he eats.

[Danke]

Easy way to cut down costs, hang them 24 hours after they are sentenced like they do in Japan.

Ah, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Japan



According to Article 475 of the 'Japanese Code of Criminal Procedure', the death penalty must be executed within six months after the failure of the prisoner's final appeal upon an order from the Minister of Justice. However, the period requesting retrial or pardon is exempt from this regulation. Therefore, in practice, the typical stay on death row is between five and seven years; a quarter of the prisoners have been on death row for over ten years. For several, the stay has been over 30 years (Sadamichi Hirasawa died of natural causes at the age of 95, after awaiting execution for 32 years[5]).

[JebSanderson]

Ah, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Japan

Yeah I was wrong about that. You're told 24 hours before you are executed and your family is told 24 hours after.

Still, the law says the execution must take place after the final appeal.

Personally, I'd execute 20 minute after the last appeal and limit appeals.

[jmdrake]

Easy way to cut down costs, hang them 24 hours after they are sentenced like they do in Japan.

As Danke has pointed out, that's not how the death penalty works in Japan. But don't you worry. Soon enough this nation will emulate the Stalineque show trials and quick executions that so many seem to crave.

[Sam I am]

And I don't want to see murders get to spend life in prison clothed, fed, housed and entertained by taxpayer dollars.


And I don't want to see people wrongly convicted of murder to be executed.

[James Madison]

And I don't want to see murders get to spend life in prison clothed, fed, housed and entertained by taxpayer dollars.

I don't want to give the State authority to kill its own citizens.

[JebSanderson]

And I don't want to see people wrongly convicted of murder to be executed.

What about people like Charles Manson and Gary Ridgeway ("Green River Killer" who murdered at least 71 women and raped their corpses)?

Why should taxpayers be paying to clothe, feed and house them?

[Sam I am]

What about people like Charles Manson and Gary Ridgeway ("Green River Killer" who murdered at least 71 women and raped their corpses)?

Why should taxpayers be paying to clothe, feed and house them?

I would gladly pay to clothe feed and house them if it prevents innocent people from getting executed.

[Travlyr]

It is a lot cheaper to let the police execute criminals. No court or jail costs and very little execution costs.

[The Free Hornet]

Yeah I was wrong about that. You're told 24 hours before you are executed and your family is told 24 hours after.

Still, the law says the execution must take place after the final appeal.

Personally, I'd execute 20 minute after the last appeal and limit appeals.

Who do you execute if the judges, juries, prosecutors, police, guards, and executioner get it wrong?

Here is just one problem with the system:


Death qualified juries

Juries in death penalty cases are always quizzed about their attitudes on capital punishment before the start of the trial. Those who could not impose a death verdict are eliminated from the jury pool. According to many studies, the resulting "death-qualified" jury is not only prepared to return a death sentence, but is more likely to erroneously convict the defendant in the first place.14 The very raising of the issue of what the punishment will be before the trial can send a signal to prospective jurors that the issue of guilt is in little doubt.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/523
[the link discusses a known error rate of about 1% or 5 cases/year]

People who would promote and exercise the death penalty should willingly and eagerly have their own necks on the line or STFU.

[The Free Hornet]

What about people like Charles Manson and Gary Ridgeway ("Green River Killer" who murdered at least 71 women and raped their corpses)?

Why should taxpayers be paying to clothe, feed and house them?

I would support a system whereby they are supported with voluntary charity or are left to their limited confined resources if nobody cares to help. But the point is moot in that it costs much more to have a death penalty currently:


Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

[JebSanderson]

It's quite easy to cut costs. Hang them after sentencing.

[jmdrake]

It's quite easy to cut costs. Hang them after sentencing.

Easier way to cut costs. End the drug war.

[JebSanderson]

Easier way to cut costs. End the drug war.

That I completely agree with.

[dannno]

Easier way to cut costs. End the drug war.

And the war on terror.

All this other stuff is trivial.

[bill1971]

Easier way to cut costs. End the drug war.

You hit the nail on the head.

[John F Kennedy III]

I don't know how I want to vote on this. But I will be voting to repeal the death penalty. There's too much corruption in the system to allow them to take someone's life because they say he is guilty.

[QuickZ06]

I don't know how I want to vote on this. But I will be voting to repeal the death penalty. There's too much corruption in the system to allow them to take someone's life because they say he is guilty.

I agree, fix the system then we can go from there.


"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer"

-William Blackstone

[Xhin]

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.

I didn't realize that was per year. That means that if they live for more than 20 years of their life sentence, then the death penalty would have been cheaper, even as screwed up as the cost is now.

In any case, my own stance is that personally I would support the death penalty in the worst cases, but practically, it's not worth it because of the possibility of the State killing innocent people.


Easier way to cut costs. End the drug war.

"You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice".

[QueenB4Liberty]

I agree, fix the system then we can go from there.

I agree too.

[Vanilluxe]

The only way to fix the system is if people have the will, but we won't unless there is reign of terror and until 100,000 people are guillotined, people will not care.

[The Free Hornet]

I didn't realize that was per year. That means that if they live for more than 20 years of their life sentence, then the death penalty would have been cheaper, even as screwed up as the cost is now.

In any case, my own stance is that personally I would support the death penalty in the worst cases, but practically, it's not worth it because of the possibility of the State killing innocent people.

All the costs are annualized. The death penalty is way, way higher.

Here is more from the same:


California taxpayers pay at least $117 million each year post-trial seeking execution of the people currently on death row;

Executing all of the people currently on death row, or waiting for them to die there of other causes, will cost California an estimated $4 billion more than if they had been sentenced to die in prison of disease, injury, or old age;

California death penalty trials have cost as much as $10.9 million.

$10.9 million divided by $34,150 (normal annual prison costs of non-death penalty inmates) is 319 YEARS. That is for the trial alone.

Don't worry about the inmates though, there is currently a moratorium on actually imposing the death penalty in California. It's very expensive feel-good legislation as social conservatives get to be all "tough on crime!". The lawyers and state employees love it as they get more money to take care of the pawns and debate the merits of cases settled years ago. Very few actually get the death penalty and taxpayers are stuck paying for the system.

I have yet to hear from the pro-death penalty crowd. Who do we kill when you get it wrong?:


Who do you execute if the judges, juries, prosecutors, police, guards, and executioner get it wrong?

[RonPaulMall]

From what I heard, even though California doesn't execute people anymore, they still keep the people on death row. The death row facility is only meant for short term stays of people awaiting execution. So it ends up being a sort of torture.

[csu1987]

What we really need is a ballot thing where it exausts dna evidence and then executes people within 1 week of their guilt. That would cut down on cost. Firing squad preferably. That would be something I could vote yes for. Being in an isolation cell for years would have to be ten times worse.

[jmdrake]

What we really need is a ballot thing where it exausts dna evidence and then executes people within 1 week of their guilt. That would cut down on cost. Firing squad preferably. That would be something I could vote yes for.

And say if there's no DNA evidence at all? Say if a week after their execution you find out there was exculpatory DNA evidence that police or prosecutors suppressed? Don't think that happens? Google Duke lacrosse rape trial. (Not a capital crime, but say if it was?). Not even "confessions" are 100%. Google the interrogation of Michael Crowe.

[csu1987]

And say if there's no DNA evidence at all? Say if a week after their execution you find out there was exculpatory DNA evidence that police or prosecutors suppressed? Don't think that happens? Google Duke lacrosse rape trial. (Not a capital crime, but say if it was?). Not even "confessions" are 100%. Google the interrogation of Michael Crowe.

Point taken. How long should we allow them to find evidence to get a new trial? A year? How do you right the wrongs? I do believe people should pay so you and I differ there. How do we come to a compromise?

[jmdrake]

Point taken. How long should we allow them to find evidence to get a new trial? A year? How do you right the wrongs? I do believe people should pay so you and I differ there. How do we come to a compromise?

I don't have an answer. But here's a possible solution.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzYJYSm-MfI