Progressive Changes Mind

[progressiveforpaul]

I listen. I learn. Especially when it appears that something different is on the horizon:

http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2012/04/ive-changed-my-mind-sorta.html

[cheapseats]

I listen. I learn. Especially when it appears that something different is on the horizon:

http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2012/04/ive-changed-my-mind-sorta.html


Right on.

Would Gary Johnson pass muster as a running mate?

[sailingaway]

I +rep'd you not because I think it is my place to say if Ron should go other than GOP but because you are putting in a ton of work and I think we should appreciate that. I know I do.

Thank you. For my selfish reasons I want Ron third party or independent. A candidate with as pure a record as he has is going to be a while coming. But I support whatever he chooses, and if he still thinks we can work inside the GOP, then this election at least, I'll work with that.

I agree, having him debate NDAA with Obama who signed it and Romney who said he WOULD have signed it, would be a joy to see.

[Anti Federalist]

I +rep'd you not because I think it is my place to say if Ron should go other than GOP but because you are putting in a ton of work and I think we should appreciate that. I know I do.

Thank you. For my selfish reasons I want Ron third party or independent. A candidate with as pure a record as he has is going to be a while coming. But I support whatever he chooses, and if he still thinks we can work inside the GOP, then this election at least, I'll work with that.

I agree, having him debate NDAA with Obama who signed it and Romney who said he WOULD have signed it, would be a joy to see.

Me too.

No One But Paul.

[progressiveforpaul]

I would vote for that ticket but if he's going to win, he needs a progressive running mate and a coalition platform. Of course the LP are going to want to have him take another Libertarian. I would suggest that the Green Party and Americans Elect should be pursued as well. The Constitution party seems to have already nominated their ticket. I think the key is that this is convincing third party and independent folks that their long range goal is best served by a temporary alliance. You do that by promising an ideologically diverse cabinet and an eclectic platform.


Right on.

Would Gary Johnson pass muster as a running mate?

[FrankRep]

For my selfish reasons I want Ron third party or independent.

Ron Paul was third party and he got his butt kicked.
He then went GOP and is now in Congress.

[csu1987]

What makes people think an independent would even get to be on a nat tv debate? Do they even do that anymore? and how many? what channels, etc

[specsaregood]

Ron Paul was third party and he got his butt kicked.
He then went GOP and is now in Congress.

I was not aware that Ron Paul ran third party before he went to congress in 1976 as a Republican. Source?

[FrankRep]

I was not aware that Ron Paul ran third party before he went to congress in 1976 as a Republican. Source?

Ron Paul presidential campaign, 1988
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul_presidential_campaign,_1988



The Ron Paul presidential campaign of 1988 began in early 1987 when former Congressman Ron Paul of Texas announced his candidacy for the 1988 presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party. He joined the third party after leaving the Republican Party over the Reagan administration's handling of the federal budget. He ran on a platform that included non-interventionism in foreign conflicts, decriminalization of illegal drugs on a federal level, a return to the gold standard, the abolition of the Federal Reserve and a reduction in all government spending.

[specsaregood]

Ron Paul presidential campaign, 1988
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul_presidential_campaign,_1988


The Ron Paul presidential campaign of 1988 began in early 1987 when former Congressman Ron Paul of Texas announced his candidacy for the 1988 presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party. He joined the third party after leaving the Republican Party over the Reagan administration's handling of the federal budget. He ran on a platform that included non-interventionism in foreign conflicts, decriminalization of illegal drugs on a federal level, a return to the gold standard, the abolition of the Federal Reserve and a reduction in all government spending.

Right, so you mean 12 years AFTER he had already been to congress as a member of the GOP. Or course he has never run as an independent or 3rd party for congress so the comparison is a bit silly. His record as a GOP presidential candidate is currently no different than his record as a 3rd party presidential candidate.

[FrankRep]

Right, so you mean 12 years AFTER he had already been to congress as a member of the GOP. Or course he has never run as an independent or 3rd party for congress so the comparison is a bit silly. His record as a GOP presidential candidate is currently no different than his record as a 3rd party presidential candidate.

Please name the successful Libertarian Congressmen and Presidents.

(You can't)

[specsaregood]

Please name the successful Libertarian Congressmen and Presidents.
(You can't)

Why would I care to even argue? I'm not a Libertarian and I am not arguing that RP should run as one.

[NoOneButPaul]

So glad I'm seeing you guys say that wanting Paul to run 3rd party is for your own selfish reasons...

I too want to see Paul run 3rd party for my own selfish reasons but in the back of my mind I know it's potentially the worst thing that can happen to the movement.

[cheapseats]

I too want to see Paul run 3rd party for my own selfish reasons but in the back of my mind I know it's potentially the worst thing that can happen to the movement.

Potentially the worst thing that can happen to the MOOVEMENT . . . or to the REPUBLICAN "PARTY"?

If it IS potentially the 'worst thing that can happen" to The Moovement, it should be quite simple to explain how/why.

Bring it.

[cheapseats]

What makes people think an independent would even get to be on a nat tv debate?


Polling above 15%?

[cheapseats]

Please name the successful Libertarian Congressmen and Presidents.

(You can't)


Please name the successful commercial interplanetary travel for Laypeople.

You can't. Shall it then NEVER happen?

[cheapseats]

...For my selfish reasons I want Ron third party or independent...


Me too.


So glad I'm seeing you guys say that wanting Paul to run 3rd party is for your own selfish reasons...

I too want to see Paul run 3rd party for my own selfish reasons...


SELFISH and SELF-ABSORBED are not the same. SELFISH can be closer to self-interest or self-absorption, depending on people and situations. Self-interest is obviously pivotal in the SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST paradigm.

I am MOST interested to hear the "selfish reasons" for wanting a third-party run.

I presume the GREATER GOOD for which y'all are willing to forego your "selfish reasons" is the coveted GOP nomination, but what ARE the (private, suppressed) selfish/self-interested reasons for preferring a third-party run?

[progressiveforpaul]

I think that Ron Paul will get in the debates if he runs third party or independent. he starts a general election race with 17-19%. He would qualify. The problem is the GOP will not allow him to be nominated going 3rd or indy is his only hope of getting in the ge debates.

I know there is a long term goal of taking over the GOP. That will not happen next year but by 2024, i think it is possible. The GOP will have to lose about 3 more presidential elections in a row to see they cannot deal with the actuarial decline without making significant concessions to the libertarian faction. There hope now is that a war or something will get them elected and when they get another shot at it the will pile on the military stimulus and cut and/privatize entitlements, thus marginalizing the libertarians. The problem is Rand Paul and Gary Johnson are waiting in the wings to ruin their game plan for the next 3 elections.

Ron Paul can got 3rd or indy and let his delegates continue their threat of a coup. When the second vote comes up at the convention, those delegates can vote for Rand and thus not surrender in present or anticipated leverage. This is essence of a dual strategy. It's win/win for Ron Paul and his supporters and why his staff has not got this up and running is mind boggling.

[Liberty74]

Ron Paul was third party and he got his butt kicked.
He then went GOP and is now in Congress.

Absolutely untrue. Recheck your dates.

Also, in order for anyone to run third party and have a chance, THEY have to run as an Independent. All these alternative parties - the LP - as Paul ran as in the 80s is pointless and a waste of time. They never get 1% of the national vote.

[Liberty74]

So glad I'm seeing you guys say that wanting Paul to run 3rd party is for your own selfish reasons...

I too want to see Paul run 3rd party for my own selfish reasons but in the back of my mind I know it's potentially the worst thing that can happen to the movement.

How can you say such?

The Independent Party has no leader and has no real platform. About 40% of Americans consider themselves to be Independents, NOT Republicans. The modern day Republican is so far in left field, why would anyone want to be a part of such corruption, lies and nonsense? This idea that we are going to take over the Republican party is delusional at best. It's not going to happen. The party won't allow it. We are anti-state, anti-war, anti-fed, etc. Does that really sound like a Republican?

Instead, we should sit our asses (the movement) onto the Indy Party. We decide the leaders and the platform.

Some in here still don't get it. Politics is about HERDING. Perception matters more so than truth. We can scream the truth all we want at the modern day Republican party, they are for the most part too far gone. So planting our movement else where we won't have the R label will do wonders for our movement. We can become the anti-establishment party, instead of becoming part of the Republicans that will only get co-opted (message) anyway like the Tea Party did. The Tea Party is officially dead.

Some of us think on a bigger scale... :D

The problem facing Americans is the two party criminal system set up by design to think the voters actually have a say. In the end we don't because the same shit continues disregard of who is in power - D or R. We can literally change that and we can do that by offering the people something DIFFERENT. Most Americans are fiscally conservative but socially liberal. Today, the average voter cannot be for both, they must pick a side. We could offer them a choice and a home.

[cheapseats]

About 40% of Americans consider themselves to be Independents, NOT Republicans.


FULLY 40%

WWJD? Weep.

[cheapseats]

...he needs a progressive running mate and a coalition platform...ideologically diverse cabinet and an eclectic platform.


I would say IDEOLOGICALLY TEMPERATE/REASONABLE, but a thousand times YES on Coalition Platform: THE MITCH DANIELS METHOD.

"Eclectic", only by EXTREME measure.




Most Americans are fiscally conservative but socially liberal. Today, the average voter cannot be for both, they must pick a side. We could offer them a choice and a home.

Hackneyed, but true: IT ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. Americans are their-version-of-BEGGING for the platform that will be EASIEST to cram down cowardly Congressional throats.

BLAZE A TRAIL or TAKE THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE. It is always thus.

To trod a path already worn by earlier herds is CLEARLY the latter.