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View Full Version : If You Resell Your Used Games, the Terrorists Win




DamianTV
04-21-2012, 10:04 PM
http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/04/20/2153251/if-you-resell-your-used-games-the-terrorists-win


"Game designer Richard Browne has come out swinging in favor of the rumored antipiracy features in the next-gen PlayStation Orbis and Xbox Durango. 'The real cost of used games is the damage that is being wrought on the creativity and variety of games available to the consumer,' Browne writes. Browne's comments echo those of influential programmer and Raspberry Pi developer David Braben, who wrote last month that '...pre-owned has really killed core games. It's killing single player games in particular, because they will get pre-owned, and it means your day one sales are it, making them super high risk.' Both Browne and Braben conflate hating GameStop (a thoroughly reasonable life choice) with the supposed evils of the used games market. Braben goes so far as to claim that used games are actually responsible for high game prices and that 'prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells.' Amazingly, no game publishers have stepped forward to publicly pledge themselves to lower game prices in exchange for a cut of used game sales. Publishers are hammering Gamestop (and recruiting developers to do the same) because it's easier than admitting that the current system is fundamentally broken."

I guess if you sell your old car in order to buy a new one that you are supporting Terrorism too. Oh, dont forget that if you sell your old used house, youre also supporting Terrorism. How about that Baseball Card collection? Is there anything these asshats wont try to tell you supports terrorism?

Ok, I got one... If you Pay your Taxes, you really are supporting Terrorism!

Kotin
04-21-2012, 10:20 PM
This is what happens.. They whine about how business and economics work, then they run to government to interfere. To everyone's detriment.

QuickZ06
04-21-2012, 11:26 PM
Unbelievable.....o wait no its not.

BenIsForRon
04-21-2012, 11:33 PM
I don't buy used games because I wish to support the developers, not Gamestop.

Definitely not government's role though.

Will be a null point in five years though because all games will be distributed digitally over the internet (a la steam), and Gamestop will go bankrupt.

DamianTV
04-22-2012, 07:05 AM
Then I'll stop playing games period within that 5 year time frame. Game Developers are becoming more and more sinister in their efforts to make money. One thing most people dont realize is they capitalize on selling peoples privacy, and offer them nothing in return except lip service about buy their shit brand new or they are supporting Terrorism and excuses why they need to make even more money.

If they had their druthers, if they came out with a shitty product that didnt sell, they'd get bailouts to continue doing the same less than mediocre job instead of going out of business. But their excuses are what kills me. In their effort to link Used Game Sales to Terrorism, they might as well say that buying used cars supports car thieves and carjackings. Oh hell, lets just cut the crap and go after the real Terrorists, the Banks! The Banks are all so quick to charge buttloads of fees and offer loans to us at retardiculus interest rates. They "go out of business", that debt somehow never seems to disappear, it just gets transferred to another bank, so we are always in a state of perpetual debt. And to top it off, they blame the people for "living beyond their means", when it was their fault to begin with. Here is some debt, but Im not gonna print up enough money for you to ever actually be able to pay off all the debt that exists.

Its your fault for living beyond your menas, not ours for not creating enough fiat currency to pay off the total debt (which is impossible). So the solution to that is to pay FULL PRICE for NEW GAMES? Not all of us have jobs where we can afford brand new cars every two weeks, new games when we want to get a new game, or even jobs at all. Yeah, where are those jobs? Oh yeah, all the currency is being transferred to the wealthy by charging the shit out of everything, fees and mostly Interest on your share of a total debt that can never be fully repaid. Musical Chairs, someone always has to lose. Less cash for us, but somehow the price of everything continues to go through the roof. So no jobs, but its our fault for "not spending" but if we spend then it is our fault for "not living within our means". Sounds like a Catch 22 to me.

The burden of debt of a fiat currency is always carried by those who can least afford it.

JSaindon
04-22-2012, 07:35 AM
I don't see how terrorism fits into it . That is just moronic. So since they can't change their business model for the changing times, buying used games promotes terrorism? Ridiculous.

Its bad enough companies like EA just recycle games all the time. Where is the originality in that? They have no sympathy from most people.

Lafayette
04-22-2012, 07:51 AM
Stop making shitty games or the same games with redone graphics (calling it a sequel) and maybe your sales would improve.

I used to acquire my games threw "3rd parties" *cough* but since the steam service came along all my game purchases are done threw them. Its a great way to find new games and old. It has reviews, demos, discussion forums, videos, screen shots and review scores all it one place. It also has many player and community tools to create groups with other gamers, offers achievements, contests, discounts, pre-orders, early beta access and many other things. IMO the best feature of Steam is the fact that all your games are tied to your account and can be uninstalled and re-downloaded at anytime, saving space and time looking for lost CD/DVD cases.

Adapt, bitches.

juleswin
04-22-2012, 07:59 AM
to be fair, the govt gets a cut everytime you resell your car or house etc etc. If its good for the govt, then its good for game publishers too. Just saying

azxd
04-22-2012, 08:25 AM
Digital subscriptions are the future, and those who pirate software/games/music have only themselves to blame for the way things are going.
The rest of us can also blame them for theft of intellectual property rights, if we desire to use the current/next generation of software/games/music.

Calling it terrorism, while attempting to evoke an emotional response ... Oh, it works ... I'm laughing !!!
Is a call for attention, yet within the industry it is a form of terrorism.

The problem is, this group is trying to control what one does with a purchased item, that the purchaser now wishes to sell.

Lafayette is right ... Adapt, bitches ... All of them ... Both seller, and purchaser.

Ranger29860
04-22-2012, 08:50 AM
SNES games in the early 90's cost 40-60 dollars. When you factor in inflation modern games are a lot cheaper. So I do not see where he is coming from about how games would go down in price.

Also modern gamer's really need to get a reality check on content versus price and why video games are still FAR better then other forms of entertainment for bang for the buck value. TO many people feel way to entitled when it comes to what "they" want the game to be. Not to mention most games you get roughly 10 hours of entertainment if you just run through the main content. If people would stop being nostalgic they would realized this is far more than old games that were actually more expensive. So god forbid a publisher tries to eek out extra cash for a product in different ways.

As for the second hand sales issue. It is a big hit on the market especially when people are more than willing to get a used game for 5$ less at gamestop. But I really do not see how this is any different than a pawn shop or other re-sellers for other products. It sucks and it is making money off of other peoples work but I really don't see how it equates to supporting terrorist.

Carson
04-22-2012, 08:55 AM
The terrorist have won...and it aint us.

Kluge
04-22-2012, 09:05 AM
They need to make books that explode if you let someone borrow it. That'll teach 'em.

rockerrockstar
04-22-2012, 09:24 AM
I normally buy used games because the new ones are not worth $60. I like to wait tell the game systems are older and there are more games on the market. Then buy some used games. I will buy a few new games if they are ones I am confident on. I probably would rent games to test them out too. If playstation wants to make it so you can't use old games I would not buy playstation.

Revolution9
04-22-2012, 09:30 AM
If we had already banned shotguns this would not be an issue??

Rev9

csu1987
04-22-2012, 10:10 AM
I love trading games or selling games for a cheaper price if I don't care about them anymore. It's one of the better ways to keep those a-holes in check. Though I don't really run out to buy most games anymore. I only buy certain ones and usually used ones.

csu1987
04-22-2012, 10:15 AM
SNES games in the early 90's cost 40-60 dollars. When you factor in inflation modern games are a lot cheaper. So I do not see where he is coming from about how games would go down in price.


That sounds false. I think 24.99 - 29.99 was common but 40-60? no. Definitely NOT. You might be thinking of LATE 90s. And YES game prices are an overpriced rip off these days. Then you have to buy new levels? Fucking lame.

heavenlyboy34
04-22-2012, 10:33 AM
to be fair, the govt gets a cut everytime you resell your car or house etc etc. If its good for the govt, then its good for game publishers too. Just saying
LMAO!! :D

Blueskies
04-22-2012, 10:49 AM
That sounds false. I think 24.99 - 29.99 was common but 40-60? no. Definitely NOT. You might be thinking of LATE 90s. And YES game prices are an overpriced rip off these days. Then you have to buy new levels? Fucking lame.

Not false at all. Look at this : http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/10/an-inconvenient-truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time.ars

UtahApocalypse
04-22-2012, 10:51 AM
If PlayStation or Xbox adapt this type system I will NEVER buy a new console again.

LibForestPaul
04-22-2012, 11:11 AM
a used 44 magnum costs more than a new 50 , go figure, just saw this on auction hunters...
need to outlaw used gun sales. serves neo-cons and libs interest, s/b a no-brainer for congress.

LibForestPaul
04-22-2012, 11:12 AM
If PlayStation or Xbox adapt this type system I will NEVER buy a new console again.
I stopped a long time ago...if it aint indy, i aint buying...and no DRM

seraphson
04-22-2012, 11:48 AM
This is what happens.. They whine about how business and economics work, then they run to government to interfere. To everyone's detriment.

But then they create a business cycle/event due to said "interference" (silence prole!) and yet another iteration of interference is implemented which also inevitable fails which then warrants yet another iteration of interference and so on and so forth until somehow you end up with a big black boot stomping your face in.

Ah the "efficiency" of planning and collectivism.

economics102
04-22-2012, 12:27 PM
I think this is all pretty dumb. The game publishers have the right to manage distribution of their games however they want, if they don't want copies being resold, that's their business. But it's their job to enforce those restrictions, not government.

Personally I don't look at either model as being "sinister." They are different models with different pros and cons. It's the difference between viewing a software product as a physical product versus a license. As others have said this is all kind of moot -- digital distribution/DRM is coming. I for one don't have a problem with it. If I were a game developer/publisher I would want to be in full control of my game.

azxd
04-22-2012, 01:49 PM
SNES games in the early 90's cost 40-60 dollars. When you factor in inflation modern games are a lot cheaper. So I do not see where he is coming from about how games would go down in price.

Also modern gamer's really need to get a reality check on content versus price and why video games are still FAR better then other forms of entertainment for bang for the buck value. TO many people feel way to entitled when it comes to what "they" want the game to be. Not to mention most games you get roughly 10 hours of entertainment if you just run through the main content. If people would stop being nostalgic they would realized this is far more than old games that were actually more expensive. So god forbid a publisher tries to eek out extra cash for a product in different ways.

As for the second hand sales issue. It is a big hit on the market especially when people are more than willing to get a used game for 5$ less at gamestop. But I really do not see how this is any different than a pawn shop or other re-sellers for other products. It sucks and it is making money off of other peoples work but I really don't see how it equates to supporting terrorist.As a kid, I spent many a summer being entertained with friends.
most kids (in this country) don't know how to play, anymore ... They feel entitled to be entertained.

heavenlyboy34
04-22-2012, 01:51 PM
I think this is all pretty dumb. The game publishers have the right to manage distribution of their games however they want, if they don't want copies being resold, that's their business. But it's their job to enforce those restrictions, not government.

Personally I don't look at either model as being "sinister." They are different models with different pros and cons. It's the difference between viewing a software product as a physical product versus a license. As others have said this is all kind of moot -- digital distribution/DRM is coming. I for one don't have a problem with it. If I were a game developer/publisher I would want to be in full control of my game.
Yes, sort of-they can create some sort of chip that prevents reselling or whatever, but outside that they have no business telling owners what to do with their property.

Grubb556
04-22-2012, 02:06 PM
The problem is that most game today are just nice graphics but no solid mechanisms. Back in the 90s they made games with good mechanisms/design that made them worth keeping. Take FFVII for example. That game is 15 years old, but people still pay to download it off the PS store.

Proph
04-22-2012, 02:29 PM
http://imgur.com/yFzNY

^^Saw that on Austin Petersen's page on Tracebook. It seems to be working out for them.

Ronulus
04-22-2012, 03:07 PM
The people bitching about this are just bitching. They have no solutions and they don't realize that their games just suck. Look at the sales of Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, Halo, Assassins Creed,Madden, FIFA, Mass Effect, etc etc.

They don't realize that their shitty marketing and poor game design is what hurts them. Now there are some games that are good but people don't know about them. Either that game was poorly marketed or it's a good game but in a genre that doesn't have a large audience. The game wasn't going to sell well no matter the price. It's likely not selling well used either.

The whole used games actually promotes the sale of new games. If someone can trade in their old games towards the purchase of a new game it promotes new sales. Want to make a bet that new sales would take a plummet if trade ins and used sales weren't allowed? I work at a game store and witness it every day I work. There are some games that people aren't going to buy new because they aren't given a guarantee, on used games if they end up playing it and the game is garbage they can bring it back for a full refund and if they don't bring it back they paid less for it.

What these publishers really need to do is get on Microsoft and Sony's ass to revise the way games are displayed on their stores etc. Steam does a much better job of having games of all sizes shown on the front page and advertised constantly to the user. With Xbox Live and PSN they are constantly advertising movies, music, tv shows and very rarely games. There are plenty of other things they can bitch about that could change their profits besides used game sales.

DamianTV
04-22-2012, 04:48 PM
At the price of your privacy. When you play and all that data is sent back to someone else, so they can sell it. Did they offer you a dime for turning in your privacy to them, for them to sell?

LibertyRevolution
04-22-2012, 05:03 PM
First sale doctrine applies...They want to do away with first sales doctrine, LULZ!
If you buy something, its yours, you can sell it to who ever you want for whatever you want to charge.

EA has the right business model, it sells license to play online, on top of selling games.
Is this bad for the consumer, I think so, but its great for their profit margin.

I would be willing to bet that every game for the nextbox and ps4 will need to be attached to your online account and will not be transferable.
Blizzards DRM on sc2 works like this, once that copy is tied to an account it can not be undone, and selling your account is against the TOS.
Like EA now..You can still sell your physical disk (single player), but you still got to pay EA for a key to play online.

DamianTV
04-22-2012, 05:17 PM
Back yard football here I come! Whose with me?

csu1987
04-24-2012, 07:19 AM
Not false at all. Look at this : http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/10/an-inconvenient-truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time.ars

Hah! That article is complete bullshit and utter lies. "published about a year ago"? hahaha. I know this for a fact because I used to buy brand new sega games for 29.99!