PA - Man leaves kids, 6 and 9 for 45 minutes at park. Gets arrested, CPS involved as well.

[Anti Federalist]

So the busybody lady, who was already keeping an eye on the kids (which, if we didn't live in the hyper obsessive age that we live, would be considered normal) couldn't help but call the cops.

That's the end of this family.

Govindaraj Narayanasamy must not have figured out how things work here in Amerika yet.





Police Say Dad Left Kids at Park To Shower

http://chartiersvalley.patch.com/articles/police-say-dad-left-kids-at-park-while-he-shopped-showered?ncid=newsltuspatc00000001

Police say a father left his two children alone at Scott Park while shopping at Walmart and showering at LA Fitness.

Govindaraj Narayanasamy, 38, of Scott, was charged with two counts of child endangerment after township police said he left the 6-year-old girl and 9-year-old boy alone in the park for nearly two hours Saturday.

Officers were called to Scott Park at around 12:30 p.m. Saturday from a person who noticed the two children playing on the swings and slides alone without a guardian. The woman told police she had been keeping an eye on them for an hour because she knew the girl and became concerned.

Police officers were able to get Narayanasamy’s phone number and called him as he was driving back to the park. He arrived shortly after 1 p.m. and told officers he left the children only briefly while going to shop for snacks at Walmart in Raceway Plaza and shower at the LA Fitness in Great Southern Shopping Center.

Narayanasamy estimated he had only been gone for about 45 minutes, but the investigation revealed that he likely left the kids alone for nearly two hours, according to court records.

Police said Narayanasamy told officers he went to LA Fitness to shower after playing tennis at the park.

The county's Office of Children, Youth and Families is also investigating the incident.

[Czolgosz]

That "father" is an idiot.


Eff Gladys Kravitz.


FTP.

[Kluge]

While I don't agree with the woman's solution, that was an absolutely asinine thing for the father to do.

[coastie]

Hmmm....45 minutes up to possibly 2 hours, 6 and 9 years old???:toady::confused:

Need more info.

I'm the last to believe CPS should even exist.......but WTF was this dude thinking leaving the area like that, even if "only" for 45 minutes, or even 10 minutes? I leave my kids home all the time when I have to, but they damn sure can't even leave the house, nobody's allowed over while we're gone, etc.

I didn't leave them alone even at the house when they were 6 and 9, let alone a park. I don't buy into the "pedophile lurking under every rock in the park next to the terrorists" horseshit, but still.





















Why was this guy just randomly taking a shower at a fitness center?:confused::toady::eek:

[Lucille]

I'm older than most people here, but when I was six, I was running all over town on my bike, for hours on end. Back then, kids were free.

I was watching Arizona Memories from the 50s, 60s and 70s on PBS in Feb., and this lady talked about how they just dropped their kids off at Big Surf all day long-- kids as young as this guy's.

Times change, and not necessarily for the better.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm older than most people here, but when I was six, I was running all over town on my bike, for hours on end. Back then, kids were free.

I was watching Arizona Memories from the 50s, 60s and 70s on PBS in Feb., and this lady talked about how they just dropped their kids off at Big Surf all day long-- kids as young as this guy's.

Times change, and not necessarily for the better.

That's the larger point here, and the rise of "helicopter parents".

Training a whole generation to be under constant surveillance.

Lenore at "Free Range Kids" checks in:

This is NOT a Crime! Cops Charge Dad Who Let Kids Play Alone in Park for 2 Hours
Posted on April 11, 2012 by lskenazy

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/this-is-not-a-crime-cops-charge-dad-who-let-kids-play-alone-in-park-for-2-hours/

Readers! As we approach our third annual, “Take Our Children to the Park…And Leave Them There Day” (Saturday, May 19), this story is outrageous. Apparently a dad let his two kids, ages 6 and 9, play in a local suburban Pittsburgh park on Saturday morning for not quite two hours while he did some shopping and took a shower. That is, while he went about the tasks of everyday life.

Meantime, a woman noticed this unusual thing: Kids playing without an adult around! That this fact was “disturbing” to an onlooker is what is so disturbing about our culture. For millennia, kids kept themselves occupied while their parents were otherwise engaged. A 9-year-old watching a 6-year-old was NORMAL, not a REASON TO CALL THE COPS.

But call the cops she did. And when they got there, they charged the dad with two counts of child endangerment. Meantime, of course, child protective services is investigating, too. Because any time you trust your children or your community, YOU cannot be trusted.

That’s what we’ve come to. You are punished for believing in your kids’ self-reliance and the neighborhood you chose to raise them in. Hence, the Free-Range Kids movement. Hence this Free-Range Kids blog. Hence…I wish I knew. We have GOT to turn our country around or children will be prisoners of their parents, and vice versa, all in the name of “caring.” Ask me, that word is missing an “s” at the beginning. – L.

[Kluge]

Oh shit.

[brushfire]

The state takes care of its children... Children that young must live to fight for corporate interests.

[Anti Federalist]

The state takes care of its children... Children that young must live to fight for corporate interests.

Human resources.

[JK/SEA]

I'm older than most people here, but when I was six, I was running all over town on my bike, for hours on end. Back then, kids were free.

I was watching Arizona Memories from the 50s, 60s and 70s on PBS in Feb., and this lady talked about how they just dropped their kids off at Big Surf all day long-- kids as young as this guy's.

Times change, and not necessarily for the better.

i'm 60 now, and there is a large playfield/school across the street from my boyhood home. From 3pm till twilight i would ride my bike and play with other kids WITHOUT any adults around. Amazing that i'm still alive i suppose. This was a normal activity for much of our generation as when visiting with cousins or family friends we would be told to go 'play in the traffic'...this was code for 'go play outside till dinner is ready' and in each case on these visits we as a group of kids would find the nearest park and do what kids did in my day......i suppose my parents would be jailed nowadays...crazy world...

[Danke]

When I was nine, I had a paper route. I took the city buses alone to both downtown Mpls. and Saint Paul.

I think I could watch my 6 year old sister at a park.

[Anti Federalist]

i'm 60 now, and there is a large playfield/school across the street from my boyhood home. From 3pm till twilight i would ride my bike and play with other kids WITHOUT any adults around. Amazing that i'm still alive i suppose. This was a normal activity for much of our generation as when visiting with cousins or family friends we would be told to go 'play in the traffic'...this was code for 'go play outside till dinner is ready' and in each case on these visits we as a group of kids would find the nearest park and do what kids did in my day......i suppose my parents would be jailed nowadays...crazy world...

I remember riding around on the back deck under the hatchback window of my Aunt's Pinto.

Seat belt?

Pfft.

No seat.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2742/4494650096_ccdcd56bfb.jpg

[Diurdi]

I'm pretty young, but ever since i was 7 and older I pretty much played with my friends unsupervised around the city (of 500,000 ppl) after school until it was dinner time. No cellphone, no nothing.

Maybe it was a bad neighbourhood?

[brushfire]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2742/4494650096_ccdcd56bfb.jpg

LOL - awesome. Yes, the pinto. It was my family's first new car. It replaced the old datsun.
We had it until around 1982, when it was mortally wounded by a snow plow.

You see a lot of old cars on the roads, but never a pinto.

...I had a buddy who's parents still had a gremlin, well into the mid 80's. The floor board were rusted out in the back. I recall my friend getting screamed at by his mom for apparently dragging his foot on the road while the car was operating LOL. The fact that he could have lost his leg was not the point, it was that his shoes were brand new and now ruined. WTF? LOL... How we ever survived - I dont know.

[JK/SEA]

LOL - awesome. Yes, the pinto. It was my family's first new car. It replaced the old datsun.
We had it until around 1982, when it was mortally wounded by a snow plow.

You see a lot of old cars on the roads, but never a pinto.

...I had a buddy who's parents still had a gremlin, well into the mid 80's. The floor board were rusted out in the back. I recall my friend getting screamed at by his mom for apparently dragging his foot on the road while the car was operating LOL. The fact that he could have lost his leg was not the point, it was that his shoes were brand new and now ruined. WTF? LOL... How we ever survived - I dont know.

this made me laugh...sounds like something i would have done. My mom was ...it seemed...was always yelling at the little red-headed boy...me...for something...she accused me of giving her ulcers...ahhh, the good ol' days..

[dannno]

I'm older than most people here, but when I was six, I was running all over town on my bike, for hours on end. Back then, kids were free.

I was watching Arizona Memories from the 50s, 60s and 70s on PBS in Feb., and this lady talked about how they just dropped their kids off at Big Surf all day long-- kids as young as this guy's.

Times change, and not necessarily for the better.

I was playing unattended in my neighborhood as young as 4 or 5. I could go anywhere I wanted as long as I could walk or bike there. This wasn't that long ago.

[JSaindon]

While I would not do that myself where I live, I do not feel the need to pass judgement on the father because I do not know him or his family. Just because YOU may not do something, does not give you the right to pass your judgement and morality on others. I could never tell someone how to raise their kids, because I would never want anyone to tell me that. There is no common ground anymore, there is just two sides that can never get along. Freedom of choices and living with the consequences is what the USA should be all about, but we have turned into the nanny state.

[angelatc]

While I don't agree with the woman's solution, that was an absolutely asinine thing for the father to do.

Pfft. When I was that age, we were riding our bikes to parks and pools, where we stayed for the entire day. He dropped off the kids to play in the park while he shopped and worked out.

There is actually nothing wrong with that.

We had to be home before dark. That was my Dad's law, not the government's law. And the only time we lost a classmate was at the pool, but he was there with his family, and under the watchful eye of the lifeguards.

[angelatc]

Oh shit. Because they got you, and you just realized it?

[fisharmor]

I was about that old when we lived in New Orleans, of all places, and I still went everywhere unattended.
I was eight the first time an alligator got into the canal. The kids' response? Let's throw rocks at it!

Shit like this has me pretty convinced I'm playing with fire, because my 5 year old daughter doesn't own a bike helmet.
I make it a point to put her in the front seat of the car whenever there isn't an airbag, too.

[angelatc]

...I had a buddy who's parents still had a gremlin, well into the mid 80's. The floor board were rusted out in the back. I recall my friend getting screamed at by his mom for apparently dragging his foot on the road while the car was operating LOL. The fact that he could have lost his leg was not the point, it was that his shoes were brand new and now ruined. WTF? LOL... How we ever survived - I dont know.

My neighbor's Mom had a big station wagon, and she would drive through the neighborhood picking us all up to take us our for ice cream. She'd come driving up the road, and tell us to go ask our Mom if we could go. Then she'd cram about 30 of us into that car and take us to the next town over for a cone.

I used to ride to my grandparents house (about 45 minutes on the freeway) in the back of my Dad's pick up truck.

And my kids won't ever know what its like to be even as free as I was.

[angelatc]

I was about that old when we lived in New Orleans, of all places, and I still went everywhere unattended.
I was eight the first time an alligator got into the canal. The kids' response? Let's throw rocks at it!

Shit like this has me pretty convinced I'm playing with fire, because my 5 year old daughter doesn't own a bike helmet.
I make it a point to put her in the front seat of the car whenever there isn't an airbag, too.

You rock.

I kept my babies' rear facing carseats in the front so I could give them bottles and chat with them while I was driving. Never owned one of those stupid booster seats and also never any bike helmets.

[Anti Federalist]

And my kids won't ever know what its like to be even as free as I was.

This.

This hurts more than anything else.

And I make it a point to not comply with as much of this safety Nazi horseshit as possible.

But I can't stop the new, fed funded, surveillance towers that have popped up on most of NH's major highways over the winter.

I can't stop the flood of technology that surrounds and drowns all of us in increasing numbers every day, watching every single move we make.

I can't stop the surveillance satellite that will be in permanent orbit right over my head should Mitt Romney get elected.

I can't stop NSA's new MiniTru being built in Utah that will monitor every single byte of electronic data in the world.

You and me and some of the other 40 plus folks on here, we were the last generation to live on planet earth that was not under total surveillance 24/7.

That could run down a street or bike across town or play in a park, without a thousand cameras watching.

And that fact breaks my fucking heart, even more than the fact that nobody gives a shit.

[Kluge]

Pfft. When I was that age, we were riding our bikes to parks and pools, where we stayed for the entire day. He dropped off the kids to play in the park while he shopped and worked out.

There is actually nothing wrong with that.

We had to be home before dark. That was my Dad's law, not the government's law. And the only time we lost a classmate was at the pool, but he was there with his family, and under the watchful eye of the lifeguards.


Because they got you, and you just realized it?

I responded without putting any real though into it. My brother and I walked to school alone when we were younger than those kids.

I'm a big ole dummy sometimes. It just sounded really bad at first--that's how they get ya, and I bought it.

[PaulConventionWV]

The law doesn't need to be involved, but that father is definitely at fault. Sometimes people just have to learn the hard way not to leave your kids unattended for such a long time. Most parents can't stand to have their kids out of their sight for more than 5 minutes.

[Anti Federalist]

The law doesn't need to be involved, but that father is definitely at fault. Sometimes people just have to learn the hard way not to leave your kids unattended for such a long time. Most parents can't stand to have their kids out of their sight for more than 5 minutes.

At fault of what?

What happened?

What crime did the father commit, that warranted being arrested, probably going to go to jail and have his family torn apart?

[Lucille]

This.

This hurts more than anything else.

And I make it a point to not comply with as much of this safety Nazi horseshit as possible.

But I can't stop the new, fed funded, surveillance towers that have popped up on most of NH's major highways over the winter.

I can't stop the flood of technology that surrounds and drowns all of us in increasing numbers every day, watching every single move we make.

I can't stop the surveillance satellite that will be in permanent orbit right over my head should Mitt Romney get elected.

I can't stop NSA's new MiniTru being built in Utah that will monitor every single byte of electronic data in the world.

You and me and some of the other 40 plus folks on here, we were the last generation to live on planet earth that was not under total surveillance 24/7.

That could run down a street or bike across town or play in a park, without a thousand cameras watching.

And that fact breaks my fucking heart, even more than the fact that nobody gives a shit.

A big ole +rep for that. I feel the same despair.

[Anti Federalist]

I responded without putting any real though into it. My brother and I walked to school alone when we were younger than those kids.

I'm a big ole dummy sometimes. It just sounded really bad at first--that's how they get ya, and I bought it.

Amazing how the propaganda hooks you isn't it?

It gets me from time to time too.

[heavenlyboy34]

This.

This hurts more than anything else.

And I make it a point to not comply with as much of this safety Nazi horseshit as possible.

But I can't stop the new, fed funded, surveillance towers that have popped up on most of NH's major highways over the winter.

I can't stop the flood of technology that surrounds and drowns all of us in increasing numbers every day, watching every single move we make.

I can't stop the surveillance satellite that will be in permanent orbit right over my head should Mitt Romney get elected.

I can't stop NSA's new MiniTru being built in Utah that will monitor every single byte of electronic data in the world.

You and me and some of the other 40 plus folks on here, we were the last generation to live on planet earth that was not under total surveillance 24/7.

That could run down a street or bike across town or play in a park, without a thousand cameras watching.

And that fact breaks my fucking heart, even more than the fact that nobody gives a shit.
+a zillion. This thread gives me teh sad. :( When I was a kid I biked and played all over the place with no supervision. Just had to tell the folks I'm headed out during long distance trips. I hope my cousins' kids aren't going through this nanny-state shit (they're in the upper-midwest). I imagine this is an incredibly depressing time to be a kid. It seems like the only "officially sanctioned" activities take place indoors.

[Brian4Liberty]

Better take these children to CPS and put them in foster homes so that they can learn the true nature of the world. Into the loving arms of Big Mommy, enforced by Big Daddy. These children will learn to fear going to the park alone (and everything else too).

[Son of Detroit]

That's the larger point here, and the rise of "helicopter parents".

Training a whole generation to be under constant surveillance.

Lenore at "Free Range Kids" checks in:

This is NOT a Crime! Cops Charge Dad Who Let Kids Play Alone in Park for 2 Hours
Posted on April 11, 2012 by lskenazy

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/this-is-not-a-crime-cops-charge-dad-who-let-kids-play-alone-in-park-for-2-hours/

Readers! As we approach our third annual, “Take Our Children to the Park…And Leave Them There Day” (Saturday, May 19), this story is outrageous. Apparently a dad let his two kids, ages 6 and 9, play in a local suburban Pittsburgh park on Saturday morning for not quite two hours while he did some shopping and took a shower. That is, while he went about the tasks of everyday life.

Meantime, a woman noticed this unusual thing: Kids playing without an adult around! That this fact was “disturbing” to an onlooker is what is so disturbing about our culture. For millennia, kids kept themselves occupied while their parents were otherwise engaged. A 9-year-old watching a 6-year-old was NORMAL, not a REASON TO CALL THE COPS.

But call the cops she did. And when they got there, they charged the dad with two counts of child endangerment. Meantime, of course, child protective services is investigating, too. Because any time you trust your children or your community, YOU cannot be trusted.

That’s what we’ve come to. You are punished for believing in your kids’ self-reliance and the neighborhood you chose to raise them in. Hence, the Free-Range Kids movement. Hence this Free-Range Kids blog. Hence…I wish I knew. We have GOT to turn our country around or children will be prisoners of their parents, and vice versa, all in the name of “caring.” Ask me, that word is missing an “s” at the beginning. – L.

Please... Parents who worry about their kids =/= training them to live in a prison state. My parents were very protective of me as a child (and still somewhat are today). You have no right to tell them that they're wrong in their parenting. Wow.

[Kluge]

Amazing how the propaganda hooks you isn't it?

It gets me from time to time too.

Yep. I guess I primed myself for it today because I'd just read a news article about Jerry Sandusky. I'd already had several jobs by the time I was 9, and one of those was babysitting, so it certainly wasn't asinine, much less criminal, for this guy to let his 9 year old watch his 6 year old at a park for a couple hours.

[Anti Federalist]

+a zillion. This thread gives me teh sad. :( When I was a kid I biked and played all over the place with no supervision. Just had to tell the folks I'm headed out during long distance trips. I hope my cousins' kids aren't going through this nanny-state shit (they're in the upper-midwest). I imagine this is an incredibly depressing time to be a kid. It seems like the only "officially sanctioned" activities take place indoors.

And all premised on the idea of Safety Über Alles.

When, in fact, it was much more dangerous then, than now.

And maybe that's just what we need is some danger, some risk, instead of this stultifying miasma of placid compliance and bleating safety, safety, safety at each other.

Fuck me, the Mayflower wasn't safe.

1776 wasn't safe.

The gold rush wasn't safe.

Racing early cars on the sands of Daytona wasn't safe.

The Wright Flyer wasn't safe.

This shit will seriously make me pop a blood vessel if I get worked up over it.

[Danke]

Yep. I guess I primed myself for it today because I'd just read a news article about Jerry Sandusky. I'd already had several jobs by the time I was 9, and one of those was babysitting, so it certainly wasn't asinine, much less criminal, for this guy to let his 9 year old watch his 6 year old at a park for a couple hours.

And here I thought you posted that 'cause you know Kludge reads the forums...

[Anti Federalist]

Please... Parents who worry about their kids =/= training them to live in a prison state. My parents were very protective of me as a child (and still somewhat are today). You have no right to tell them that they're wrong in their parenting. Wow.

Your parents can do whatever they wish.

What they should not do is call the cops on people who don't raise their kids the same way.

And why don't I have that "right"?

I'm sure, based on what you said, that they would certainly disagree with my style of parenting.

Do they not have a "right" to comment on that?

[Kluge]

And here I thought you posted that 'cause you know Kludge reads the forums...

I actually don't know if he does anymore, but it certainly did cross my mind that it's something he'd do that I might (wrongly) get mad about.

[Danke]

I actually don't know if he does anymore, but it certainly did cross my mind that it's something he'd do that I might (wrongly) get mad about.

Would you ever leave Kludge in a park unsupervised?

[Kluge]

Would you ever leave Kludge in a park unsupervised?

Good question. His sense of direction is so terrible that doing so might mean his demise. So I'll give that a solid "probably not."

[Son of Detroit]

Your parents can do whatever they wish.

What they should not do is call the cops on people who don't raise their kids the same way.

And why don't I have that "right"?

I'm sure, based on what you said, that they would certainly disagree with my style of parenting.

Do they not have a "right" to comment on that?

Of course you have that right, I was speaking in a metaphorical sense. I also have the right to think that anyone who lets their 6 year old walk around alone is an idiot.

[donnay]

Hell I was babysitting at 9 years old!

[Anti Federalist]

Of course you have that right, I was speaking in a metaphorical sense. I also have the right to think that anyone who lets their 6 year old walk around alone is an idiot.

That's just it.

The 6 year old wasn't walking around alone.

Her 9 year old brother was with her, in a closed in park, with other adults and children there.

So the woman that was "keeping an eye on them" maybe asks, "Where's your dad?" or "Can you call your dad, or give me his phone number so I can check on him?" instead of calling the ever fucking cops, who now have arrested him, called in CPS and will probably send him to jail, thus destroying that family.

Is that a suitable outcome to you?

[puppetmaster]

Three wheelers, no helmets, seatbelts, left alone to figure things out. that was fun....but now you get arrested if your kid rides a bike without a helmet.....

People look at me like I am crazy snowboarding without helmet.
Many are just pussified

[azxd]

A much better story than reading about another child abduction.

[CaptainAmerica]

I use to walk down the street to my friends house when I was 5, with my dog.I walked every day from 5-15 years old to school and it was about a half mile walk ...wtf is up with these idiots calling cops.

[angelatc]

Amazing how the propaganda hooks you isn't it?

It gets me from time to time too.

Yep.

[fisharmor]

People look at me like I am crazy snowboarding without helmet.
Many are just pussified

The concussion/whole day of memory permanently gone skiing incident I had in winter 2009 convinced me that helmets are actually not always a good idea.
I wasn't even going that fast, but fell down backward and hit my head on hard-pack snow.
Only the helmet increases the surface area of what's getting hit.
And there's zero padding in there.
Meaning that that increased surface area is going to transfer more force straight through the styrofoam and directly into your skull.

One of my hobbies is dressing up in armor and letting men twice my weight swing 7' long sticks at my head, and also constructing the armor necessary to survive that. I don't have a PhD in head trauma, but IMO, bike helmets aren't worth it.

[angelatc]

Of course you have that right, I was speaking in a metaphorical sense. I also have the right to think that anyone who lets their 6 year old walk around alone is an idiot.

In Germany, kids younger than that walk home alone, let themselves into their homes with a key, and take care of themselves until their parents get home.

In America, kids are encouraged to avoid responsibility of any kind.

[Anti Federalist]

A much better story than reading about another child abduction.

Like the non war on cops, a very tiny number, roughly around 100 to 150 a year.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2007/01/800000_missing_kids_really.html

But I suppose you find that tearing this family apart and having these children abducted by the state is a better solution?

Fuck it, you know what?

I think all children should just have one of these devices permanently attached at birth.

That's where all this is going anyway.

http://www.safeguard-1.com/MISSING_CHILD_STATS.html

Ask yourself this question. Do I really know that my child or grandchild is safe at this very moment? Unless your child is physically in your care, you inevitably answered NO. Find that thought alarming? So did the SafeGUARD1gps team. In today’s world, there really is no “safe place” as there once was. Children can disappear in the blink of an eye sometimes by simply wandering away from a parent or guardian. Worse yet, they can be taken from a “safe” location just as fast thus becoming virtually untraceable to parents, law enforcement, school personnel ,etc. Using the very latest in GPS technology, the SafeGUARD1gps unit monitors your loved one constantly while reporting to its server every 15 minutes giving you virtually instantaneous knowledge and peace of mind concerning the safety of your child. With this innovative personal security device, you can monitor your child’s whereabouts at anytime from your home computer, office computer, cellular phone or any where the internet is available! The device also features one-touch dialing to any telephone number you choose for instant notification .

Consider this scenario, your child is victimized, most children under the age of 13 would be without a cell phone (or have time to use one) thus having no way to contact you. With the SafeGUARD1gps on their person, they simply hold the advanced S.O.S. button for five seconds thus generating their location information from the device to the web-server every two minutes for a duration of twenty minutes . This function is easily explainable to any child, just as teaching them "911" . Geo-fencing is yet another ground breaking feature of the unit. This feature allows you as the parent to set boundaries such as a designated mile/radius area that your child should be in for a given time simply by entering the set boundary information into our user friendly website. This feature also works well with teenagers as it also features set speed features as well as set boundaries. As soon as the boundary is breached—instant notification! Another great feature is the size of the unit. It will fit into a pocket, back-pack, lunch box, virtually un-noticed therefore allowing the child his or her own security system in just about any panic situation going virtually un-noticed by the assailant holding them captive. Concerned about the child possibly losing the device? Not to worry, the unit has a handy attachment gage where you simply attach a small cord, heavy string, etc. to clip safely onto or into your desired carrier whether it be a back-pack, lunch box or even their belt loop! Even babies and toddlers benefit from the device as it can be stowed in a diaper bag or stroller as well as attached inside their clothing.


Most of our children age 4 to 12 are not carrying a cell phone leaving them vulnerable to predators not expecting they are concealing a device like the SafeGUARD1gps unit. Peace of mind? Definitely. Consider also that mentally-challenged children and adults as well as elderly individuals disappear from homes, playgrounds, etc almost daily. By simply attatching the unit to their person, their whereabouts are traceable as well. Do you have an avid hunter, backpacker or hiker in your family? Imagine knowing their safety as well! The situations and scenarios mentioned herein are FACT. Take the appropriate measures today to ensure the safety and well-being of your family.

[Travlyr]

That's just it.

The 6 year old wasn't walking around alone.

Her 9 year old brother was with her, in a closed in park, with other adults and children there.

So the woman that was "keeping an eye on them" maybe asks, "Where's your dad?" or "Can you call your dad, or give me his phone number so I can check on him?" instead of calling the ever fucking cops, who now have arrested him, called in CPS and will probably send him to jail, thus destroying that family.

Is that a suitable outcome to you?
See what happens in this modern world. Let your kids enjoy life unsupervised for 45 minutes and they get kidnapped.

My parents left us alone pretty much all my life. As long as we were home for supper everything was fine.

[azxd]

Like the non war on cops, a very tiny number, roughly around 100 to 150 a year.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2007/01/800000_missing_kids_really.html

But I suppose you find that tearing this family apart and having these children abducted by the state is a better solution?

Fuck it, you know what?

I think all children should just have one of these devices permanently attached at birth.

That's where all this is going anyway.

http://www.safeguard-1.com/MISSING_CHILD_STATS.html

Ask yourself this question. Do I really know that my child or grandchild is safe at this very moment? Unless your child is physically in your care, you inevitably answered NO. Find that thought alarming? So did the SafeGUARD1gps team. In today’s world, there really is no “safe place” as there once was. Children can disappear in the blink of an eye sometimes by simply wandering away from a parent or guardian. Worse yet, they can be taken from a “safe” location just as fast thus becoming virtually untraceable to parents, law enforcement, school personnel ,etc. Using the very latest in GPS technology, the SafeGUARD1gps unit monitors your loved one constantly while reporting to its server every 15 minutes giving you virtually instantaneous knowledge and peace of mind concerning the safety of your child. With this innovative personal security device, you can monitor your child’s whereabouts at anytime from your home computer, office computer, cellular phone or any where the internet is available! The device also features one-touch dialing to any telephone number you choose for instant notification .

Consider this scenario, your child is victimized, most children under the age of 13 would be without a cell phone (or have time to use one) thus having no way to contact you. With the SafeGUARD1gps on their person, they simply hold the advanced S.O.S. button for five seconds thus generating their location information from the device to the web-server every two minutes for a duration of twenty minutes . This function is easily explainable to any child, just as teaching them "911" . Geo-fencing is yet another ground breaking feature of the unit. This feature allows you as the parent to set boundaries such as a designated mile/radius area that your child should be in for a given time simply by entering the set boundary information into our user friendly website. This feature also works well with teenagers as it also features set speed features as well as set boundaries. As soon as the boundary is breached—instant notification! Another great feature is the size of the unit. It will fit into a pocket, back-pack, lunch box, virtually un-noticed therefore allowing the child his or her own security system in just about any panic situation going virtually un-noticed by the assailant holding them captive. Concerned about the child possibly losing the device? Not to worry, the unit has a handy attachment gage where you simply attach a small cord, heavy string, etc. to clip safely onto or into your desired carrier whether it be a back-pack, lunch box or even their belt loop! Even babies and toddlers benefit from the device as it can be stowed in a diaper bag or stroller as well as attached inside their clothing.


Most of our children age 4 to 12 are not carrying a cell phone leaving them vulnerable to predators not expecting they are concealing a device like the SafeGUARD1gps unit. Peace of mind? Definitely. Consider also that mentally-challenged children and adults as well as elderly individuals disappear from homes, playgrounds, etc almost daily. By simply attatching the unit to their person, their whereabouts are traceable as well. Do you have an avid hunter, backpacker or hiker in your family? Imagine knowing their safety as well! The situations and scenarios mentioned herein are FACT. Take the appropriate measures today to ensure the safety and well-being of your family.I take it my comment touched a nerve, and you'd rather not face the reality that children are abducted, everyday.

Sorry.

[Travlyr]

I take it my comment touched a nerve, and you'd rather not face the reality that children are abducted, everyday.

Sorry.
They were abducted alright... appears to be true.

[Anti Federalist]

See what happens in this modern world. Let your kids enjoy life unsupervised for 45 minutes and they get kidnapped.

My parents left us alone pretty much all my life. As long as we were home for supper everything was fine.

Maybe it's just middle aged curmudgeoness combined with the rapidly descending surveillance state, but you know what?

Fuck this modern world.

Fuck it, hard.

:mad:

(And yes I'm aware of the irony of using relatively modern technology to decry the world of modern technology, so don't bother pointing that out.)

[azxd]

See what happens in this modern world. Let your kids enjoy life unsupervised for 45 minutes and they get kidnapped.

My parents left us alone pretty much all my life. As long as we were home for supper everything was fine.And we never locked doors while John Wayne Gacy roamed the streets ... Times change.

[Son of Detroit]

That's just it.

The 6 year old wasn't walking around alone.

Her 9 year old brother was with her, in a closed in park, with other adults and children there.

So the woman that was "keeping an eye on them" maybe asks, "Where's your dad?" or "Can you call your dad, or give me his phone number so I can check on him?" instead of calling the ever fucking cops, who now have arrested him, called in CPS and will probably send him to jail, thus destroying that family.

Is that a suitable outcome to you?

Yes, that would be the perfect solution.

[Lucille]

Since helmets have been mentioned: Life in a Bubble (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/110011.html)


I am writing an article on the obsession with helmet safety and the culture of fear, and I came across this abomination - Thudguard. This product is the forever helmet for babies that is described as a "½ inch thick impact tested protective foam hat is designed to help absorb and reduce the impact of falls from a child’s own height and lessen the chance of head injury when infants are learning to walk."

http://karendecoster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/crawl_walk_play-1.jpg

You can read the warnings on the packaging at the link.

LOL...

[Anti Federalist]

I take it my comment touched a nerve, and you'd rather not face the reality that children are abducted, everyday.

Sorry.

No, just another misstatement of fact on your part.

Roughly 100 to 150 children are truly abducted or kidnapped by strangers each year.

That is not every day.

That is not even every other day.

Now, answer the question:

Should this man go to jail and have CPS take his children away for this "crime"?

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, that would be the perfect solution.

Just so we are clear, because my post was not, for that I apologize:

You are in agreement that this man should go to jail, and have his children taken by the state, for this "crime"?

Or,

You are in agreement that the woman watching the children should have tried to call the father first, before calling the cops and starting this whole mess?

[azxd]

No, just another misstatement of fact on your part.

Roughly 100 to 150 children are truly abducted or kidnapped by strangers each year.

That is not every day.

That is not even every other day.

Now, answer the question:

Should this man go to jail and have CPS take his children away for this "crime"?I never made a claim to any set of numbers, and I really don't see this as being of national importance ... And the tools you question are the fault of the banksters ... Another member of this forum convinced me of this.

[Travlyr]

And we never locked doors while John Wayne Gacy roamed the streets ... Times change.
Does it really matter whether the abductors are wearing uniforms or not?

[Danke]

Fuck this modern world.

Fuck it, hard.

:mad:


I bet you confuse a lot of women with by putting it that way.

[azxd]

Does it really matter whether the abductors are wearing uniforms or not?That depend on what happens to the abductee.

[Travlyr]

That depend on what happens to the abductee.
As long as the abductor is nice... it's okay?

[Travlyr]

There is no excuse for breaking up a man's family because he let them play in the park. It is not a crime.

[Bodhi]

Bah, I was out until dark when I was 9 and would have been more than capable of watching out for a 6 year old.

[mad cow]

I am shocked that anybody thinks that there is anything wrong with what this man did,let alone criminal.There does seem to be an age
discrepancy among the different opinions here.
It seems like there has been a lot of frog boiling going on in the 50+ years since I was a kid that age.

[ninepointfive]

You and me and some of the other 40 plus folks on here, we were the last generation to live on planet earth that was not under total surveillance 24/7.



You sound a little defeated - how about we turn this around. Time to put our feet down!

[newbitech]

I know the area, I have family there in Bridgeville. It's a very nice park with baseball fields and everything. Just where you'd expect to find tons of 6 and 9 year olds running around playing and having fun. I can understand the concern if this place wasn't somewhere that all kinds of involved parents bring their kids. Even the article said, the kids were already being monitored by someone who knew them. The lady who called the cops knew the kids. Pops probably believed his kids were safe being at a park where all kinds of kids go to play with their friends.

I was 6 years old in 1983. I played youth baseball at a park just like this. It was not uncommon for my parents to drop me off at the ball park to go play for HOURS at a time. As I grew older, maybe 8-9, I rode my bike to the ball park and hung out there all day long. Just had to be home before dark. I have 2 younger tag along siblings and at 9 years old, they could go with me to play friggin baseball without having my parents tagging along.

This is such BS that a father is not allowed to trust his kids to go play. It's a PARK! FOR KIDS! TO PLAY!

Let them play for god's sake and let them keep their daddy. Jesus.

[tod evans]

I was 6 in the early 60's.......ran loose in the burbs North of Chicago with all the other kids on my street.

Where I live now it's safe for my son (7) to play outdoors unsupervised with his friends.

Every family, like every town is different and common sense is a good thing....Both in the kid and the parent.

[KCIndy]

There is no excuse for breaking up a man's family because he let them play in the park. It is not a crime.


"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Travlyr again."

[KCIndy]

I am shocked that anybody thinks that there is anything wrong with what this man did,let alone criminal.There does seem to be an age
discrepancy among the different opinions here.
It seems like there has been a lot of frog boiling going on in the 50+ years since I was a kid that age.


Agreed.

I'm alarmed and saddened that so many people, even those here on RPF, have been so heavily indoctrinated into the "cult of safety" that seems to have been pushed heavily over the past couple of decades.

At the risk of sounding like a crusty old fart, when I was a kid:


* Seatbelts weren't mandatory and my younger brother and I bounced around unimpeded in the back of my family's 1975 Ford Station Wagon.

* 'Weapons' in school? Some of my friends brought their hunting rifles into school - they were refinishing them as a shop class project. And none of the guys I knew were ever without a handy dandy pocket knife.

* Not only did we play - unmonitored - in the local parks, one of our favorite places to play was an abandoned landfill. <<the horror!>> It was simply expected that we would come straggling in when it got dark outside.

* Not only were kids 'back then' not wrapped in bubble pack and protected from the world, we were given jobs - and responsibilities - that might terrify today's safety minded nanny state proponents. At nine years of age, I had cleaned out gutters, mowed lawns (without protective goggles and earplugs! - what were those?) and climbed fruit trees because I was light enough to pick the best juicy pears waayyy up at the top.


So let me ask the opinion of those here who are under the age of thirty: Does my world of "back then" sound as scary to you as your "safety first" world of today scares me? Because I'm frankly horrified at what sticklers for safety today's younger generations have become.

[heavenlyboy34]

Agreed.

I'm alarmed and saddened that so many people, even those here on RPF, have been so heavily indoctrinated into the "cult of safety" that seems to have been pushed heavily over the past couple of decades.

At the risk of sounding like a crusty old fart, when I was a kid:


* Seatbelts weren't mandatory and my younger brother and I bounced around unimpeded in the back of my family's 1975 Ford Station Wagon.

* 'Weapons' in school? Some of my friends brought their hunting rifles into school - they were refinishing them as a shop class project. And none of the guys I knew were ever without a handy dandy pocket knife.

* Not only did we play - unmonitored - in the local parks, one of our favorite places to play was an abandoned landfill. <<the horror!>> It was simply expected that we would come straggling in when it got dark outside.

* Not only were kids 'back then' not wrapped in bubble pack and protected from the world, we were given jobs - and responsibilities - that might terrify today's safety minded nanny state proponents. At nine years of age, I had cleaned out gutters, mowed lawns (without protective goggles and earplugs! - what were those?) and climbed fruit trees because I was light enough to pick the best juicy pears waayyy up at the top.


So let me ask the opinion of those here who are under the age of thirty: Does my world of "back then" sound as scary to you as your "safety first" world of today scares me? Because I'm frankly horrified at what sticklers for safety today's younger generations have become.
I preferred climbing pines and maple trees myself. Fell out of a few, too-and lived to tell about it! :eek: ;)

Hey y'all-do modern playgrounds even have monkey bars and various climbing apparatus? Those were fun as hell, but I been helicopter parents and sissies would demand them torn down. :(

[JK/SEA]

And all premised on the idea of Safety Über Alles.

When, in fact, it was much more dangerous then, than now.

And maybe that's just what we need is some danger, some risk, instead of this stultifying miasma of placid compliance and bleating safety, safety, safety at each other.

Fuck me, the Mayflower wasn't safe.

1776 wasn't safe.

The gold rush wasn't safe.

Racing early cars on the sands of Daytona wasn't safe.

The Wright Flyer wasn't safe.

This shit will seriously make me pop a blood vessel if I get worked up over it.

No shit huh?....its no wonder you have so many reps. I could write a book on the hair raising shit i encountered growing up, like that time when i was 12 with my 2 sisters in a 58 buick century going to North Dakota one summer with mom driving while dad took a nap going 120 mph down a 2 lane hiway in the middle of nowhere..no seat belts..mom half shitfaced with a can of Olympia beer between her legs...yeehaw...fun times....

[KCIndy]

I preferred climbing pines and maple trees myself. Fell out of a few, too-and lived to tell about it! :eek: ;)

Prefer? Prefer? Heck, I was under orders! :D




Hey y'all-do modern playgrounds even have monkey bars and various climbing apparatus? Those were fun as hell, but I been helicopter parents and sissies would demand them torn down. :(

The ones I've seen are very very low, and have several inches of fluffy rubber padding under them. When I was a kid, the padding was called "gravel." :p

[specsaregood]

Three wheelers, no helmets, seatbelts, left alone to figure things out. that was fun....but now you get arrested if your kid rides a bike without a helmet.....

From the 80's. A story about a 10yold and his alien.
http://thebestpictureproject.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/et3.jpg how far we have come in 30 years.

[Anti Federalist]

From the 80's. A story about a 10yold and his alien.
http://thebestpictureproject.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/et3.jpg how far we have come in 30 years.

Riding a bike?

In the street?

Unsupervised?

With no cel phone or GPS tracking device?

And no helmet or knee pads???

[Brian4Liberty]

All of the reminiscing about the good old days reminds me of one difference between then and now. It seemed that everything was in walking or quick bike ride from the house, especially when we were under ten. When the inevitable broken leg or bloody gash occurred, someone's house was within a quick run for help.

It would have been pretty strange to be driven to a far away park and left there for hours. In this particular case, it sounds like the Father was playing tennis a short distance away, which would be within a quick run if the kids knew how to get there. Driving to the gym may have put him out of reach though.

[Anti Federalist]

You sound a little defeated - how about we turn this around. Time to put our feet down!

I'm trying, my brother, I'm trying.

But even within our own merry little band of refuseniks, when I "attack" certain varieties of privacy invading, personal monitoring technology, like FarceBook for instance, I get pushback even here, from people who should know better, because of all the "convenience" it offers.

Trying it amongst the general populace is slow, painful process.

I remember the glazed look of utter shock on the older women next to me in line at the airport, when they were trying out that new passenger interrogation screening, as I loudly refused to answer any questions, based on my 5th Amendment right to remain silent.

[heavenlyboy34]

The ones I've seen are very very low, and have several inches of fluffy rubber padding under them. When I was a kid, the padding was called "gravel." :p
The padding around here was usually sand (with occasional "surprise" rocks) and occasionally a bit of grass sprouting out of hard clay desert soil.

[Brian4Liberty]

The padding around here was usually sand (with occasional "surprise" rocks) and occasionally a bit of grass sprouting out of hard clay desert soil.

Tanbark was the standard in my area. Of course the cover got pretty thin in between applications of fresh stuff.

[TexanRudeBoy]

How many hours I spent at the park, or any other place, unsupervised cannot be calculated. During summers I left the house after breakfast, came home for a quick lunch, and was gone again until just before nightfall. Reading the thread I imagine this is commonplace for just about anyone. I'm only 27, so this was in the 90's. Its scary how far things have gone in such a short time.

[Drex]

How ironic. They don't want a stranger to kidnap the kids. But with the NDAA they have the right to kidnap them.

[Anti Federalist]

I had a buddy who's parents still had a gremlin, well into the mid 80's. The floor board were rusted out in the back. I recall my friend getting screamed at by his mom for apparently dragging his foot on the road while the car was operating LOL. The fact that he could have lost his leg was not the point, it was that his shoes were brand new and now ruined. WTF? LOL... How we ever survived - I dont know.

Oh wow, did you just bring back a great memory.

I used to go camping with my folks and my grandparents.

I'm 10 to 12 over these summers.

Grandpa had a 1976 F100 (so did my dad, now that I think of it, he had Super Cab F100, and grandpa liked it so much he went out and bought one too, only it was a standard cab with an automatic) that he used to drive to the campground, and I would to ride with him to a camp woodpile (it was a state park that used to have a logging operation on part of it, these were cast offs and bark pieces) about three or four miles down dirt and pavement woods roads from the campsites.

We'd pile up a "rick" or two of wood on the lowered tailgate, and it was my job to ride on the back gate and help hold on to it so we didn't have to throw it into the pickup truck bed, where he had all his camping gear and cots and stuff. This happened many times over the course of a summer.

I would drag my feet along the dirt and the pavement just for kicks, sitting on the lowered tailgate as grandpa drove back to the campsite, as fast as 30 MPH at times.

And my mom would crab at me at the end of each summer, "Young man, how the hell did you wear out the soles of your new boots already??!!!".

"I dunno Mom, must have worn them out riding my bike...honest!"

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114020922/uncyclopedia/images/4/48/Trollface_small_normal2pl7.png

ETA - In violation of all the rules, my kids love the times when I let them ride in the back of my truck.

[JK/SEA]

All these stories of us 'older' folks growing up in relative freedom, makes me want to watch that movie 'Stand By Me'...

geez...i'm getting lots of memory flashbacks from this thread...

[kuckfeynes]

What the heck? Didn't read 8 pages, but don't tell me people here have a problem with a 9 year old watching a 6 year old while outside playing.
I've only been alive for 3 decades, and even I remember a time when this was normal.
In a small city, before cellphones even. Just be home by dinner.
Physical abuse is pretty cut and dry and easy to identify. Negligence is a totally subjective concept. Quit trying to Nerf the world.
At least these kids were outside. I'd say parents who let their kids sit in front of screens for hours a day are far more negligent.

[Yieu]

When I was around that age, I used to go hiking in the woods halfway up a mountain with my cousins who were the same age.

Sometimes I would just wander into the woods or streets alone to do whatever it was I wanted to do. I walked and road my bike everywhere around that age.

I walked to middle school about 3 miles. And yes, there were steep hills going both ways, and there was snow.

[Anti Federalist]

What the heck? Didn't read 8 pages, but don't tell me people here have a problem with a 9 year old watching a 6 year old while outside playing.
I've only been alive for 3 decades, and even I remember a time when this was normal.
In a small city, before cellphones even. Just be home by dinner.
Physical abuse is pretty cut and dry and easy to identify. Negligence is a totally subjective concept. Quit trying to Nerf the world.
At least these kids were outside. I'd say parents who let their kids sit in front of screens for hours a day are far more negligent.

Yeah, a few did.

[Anti Federalist]

Well now, this really seemed to touch a nerve.

I thought it might have been in the 80s when everything started to go downhill, but there are plenty of 30 something posters saying that they grew up relatively free as well.

Question: when did this change?

Mid 90s crime wave?

9/11?

Later?

[KCIndy]

But even within our own merry little band of refuseniks, when I "attack" certain varieties of privacy invading, personal monitoring technology, like FarceBook for instance, I get pushback even here, from people who should know better, because of all the "convenience" it offers.




That's the part I find so damn depressing.

[tod evans]

Well now, this really seemed to touch a nerve.

I thought it might have been in the 80s when everything started to go downhill, but there are plenty of 30 something posters saying that they grew up relatively free as well.

Question: when did this change?

Mid 90s crime wave?

9/11?

Later?


I think it is more geographical than chronological.

[KCIndy]

Well now, this really seemed to touch a nerve.

I thought it might have been in the 80s when everything started to go downhill, but there are plenty of 30 something posters saying that they grew up relatively free as well.

Question: when did this change?

Mid 90s crime wave?

9/11?

Later?


I remember 9/11 and its aftermath as being the real turning point where the "conventional wisdom" of the populace began to swing to the idea of "safety at any cost." Before that, the Columbine shooting in '99 marked the real nightmare of totalitarian authority in schools; metal detectors, pat-downs, armed guards, etc were (to my memory) largely unknown before that.

(side note: tomorrow marks the 13 year commemoration of the Columbine shooting)

[Danke]

I remember the glazed look of utter shock on the older women next to me in line at the airport, when they were trying out that new passenger interrogation screening, as I loudly refused to answer any questions, based on my 5th Amendment right to remain silent.

I'd imagine you get that look a lot, especially from fellow passengers.

[Yieu]

I believe it was after the time of the events at Columbine and more so after 9/11 that schools seemed to be starting to go on lock down and the freedoms of children in the eye of the public started diminishing, but you could see it creeping in slowly before that.

But then, my freedom to roam could have been local to my family and community. And my extended families' communities, both of them.

[JK/SEA]

Well now, this really seemed to touch a nerve.

I thought it might have been in the 80s when everything started to go downhill, but there are plenty of 30 something posters saying that they grew up relatively free as well.

Question: when did this change?


Mid 90s crime wave?

9/11?

Later?

its been 'incremental'

Boomers for instance grew up with cars with no seatbelts...now you can get your kids taken away if caught without them on.

In between 'those times' and now, we can fairly pinpoint certain instances of incrementalism being applied, and lawmakers with nothing better to do except make points with corporations and insurance companies putting the squeeze on to maximize profit with 'safety devices' and Insurance companies making the extra dough with higher insurance rates all in the guise of 'safety'. Of course this is but one example. CPS fits in there someplace...i'll let someone else comment on that aspect.

[Anti Federalist]

I remember 9/11 and its aftermath as being the real turning point where the "conventional wisdom" of the populace began to swing to the idea of "safety at any cost." Before that, the Columbine shooting in '99 marked the real nightmare of totalitarian authority in schools; metal detectors, pat-downs, armed guards, etc were (to my memory) largely unknown before that.

(side note: tomorrow marks the 13 year commemoration of the Columbine shooting)

Great, great point, Columbine had completely slipped my mind, yeah, the ruckus over that was deafening and the fallout is still being dealt with.

I owe ya another rep.

[Anti Federalist]

I'd imagine you get that look a lot, especially from fellow passengers.

Har har har...

[Yieu]

I remember 9/11 and its aftermath as being the real turning point where the "conventional wisdom" of the populace began to swing to the idea of "safety at any cost." Before that, the Columbine shooting in '99 marked the real nightmare of totalitarian authority in schools; metal detectors, pat-downs, armed guards, etc were (to my memory) largely unknown before that.

(side note: tomorrow marks the 13 year commemoration of the Columbine shooting)

Beat me to it. ;)

[Yieu]

its been 'incremental'

Boomers for instance grew up with cars with no seatbelts...now you can get your kids taken away if caught without them on.

In between 'those times' and now, we can fairly pinpoint certain instances of incrementalism being applied, and lawmakers with nothing better to do except make points with corporations and insurance companies putting the squeeze on to maximize profit with 'safety devices' and Insurance companies making the extra dough with higher insurance rates all in the guise of 'safety'. Of course this is but one example. CPS fits in there someplace...i'll let someone else comment on that aspect.

This is true to an extent, they did have more freedom further in the past.

The thing is, the rate of tyranny has accelerated much faster than it had in the past, since the late 90's and early 00's.

They now use the excuse of "it's for safety because of 9/11" even if the situation does not relate to 9/11.

[newbitech]

All of the reminiscing about the good old days reminds me of one difference between then and now. It seemed that everything was in walking or quick bike ride from the house, especially when we were under ten. When the inevitable broken leg or bloody gash occurred, someone's house was within a quick run for help.

It would have been pretty strange to be driven to a far away park and left there for hours. In this particular case, it sounds like the Father was playing tennis a short distance away, which would be within a quick run if the kids knew how to get there. Driving to the gym may have put him out of reach though.

I don't think so. there are tennis courts at the park, the walmart is across the creek and the gym is a mile or two up the road. These are fairly tight nit communities. They are old mining and lumber communities in the south suburbs of Pittsburgh. These are decedents of immigrants from south east Europe, Slovania, Croatia, Bosnia etc.. The rolling hills reminded them of back home so I am told.

The park has a row of homes and a middle class neighborhood on the border. I wouldn't doubt if the family lives right there in the hood. If the kids were going to run somewhere, it'd probably be to their house.

[newbitech]

Well now, this really seemed to touch a nerve.

I thought it might have been in the 80s when everything started to go downhill, but there are plenty of 30 something posters saying that they grew up relatively free as well.

Question: when did this change?

Mid 90s crime wave?

9/11?

Later?

I noticed some real crack downs on young people hanging out after hours in the late 90's with the rave scene and Ecstasy being popular. Before the crack downs, you had clubs in Ybor City and around Tampa that stayed open until 3am catering to 18-21 crowds. You know, freshly minted adults that still weren't aloud to drink. Those clubs weren't strictly 18 and up though. There was no such rules that I recall, and if there were, it didn't really matter. I started these clubs right around 15-16, when I could drive. The real crack down came when Ybor turned in to commercial central instead of the cultural icon that it is misleadingly now known for.

[angelatc]

I take it my comment touched a nerve, and you'd rather not face the reality that children are abducted, everyday.

Sorry.

If you'd turn off Nancy Grace and actually pay attention to facts, you'd know that stranger abduction is actually pretty rare. Almost all abductions are by people known to the child and trusted by the parents. But thanks for playing.

[specsaregood]

I noticed some real crack downs on young people hanging out after hours in the late 90's with the rave scene and Ecstasy being popular. Before the crack downs, you had clubs in Ybor City and around Tampa that stayed open until 3am catering to 18-21 crowds. You know, freshly minted adults that still weren't aloud to drink. Those clubs weren't strictly 18 and up though. There was no such rules that I recall, and if there were, it didn't really matter. I started these clubs right around 15-16, when I could drive. The real crack down came when Ybor turned in to commercial central instead of the cultural icon that it is misleadingly now known for.

Funny you should mention raves. Bonus rep+ if you can name which famous bill "the rave act" -- which targetted such venues -- was attached to in order to pass into law.

[palm]

as a child I and all my friends ran and played everywhere.

We were only about 6 and 7.

That's very common for children in urban areas, namely where I grew up.

[kuckfeynes]

Wow this was in Scott Township?! That was totally lost on me when reading it. There should be NOTHING weird about two kids playing by themselves there. Although, the infamous Allegheny CYF, doesn't surprise me. Seems like every so often they like to kidnap someone's newborn for a couple weeks because they ate poppyseeds in the days before birth...

[newbitech]

Funny you should mention raves. Bonus rep+ if you can name which famous bill "the rave act" -- which targetted such venues -- was attached to in order to pass into law.

What is, the Amber Alert?

So protecting kids by jacking their freedom. Thanks Joe Biden!

[satchelmcqueen]

thats a nice body on that pinto. no rust .
I remember riding around on the back deck under the hatchback window of my Aunt's Pinto.

Seat belt?

Pfft.

No seat.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2742/4494650096_ccdcd56bfb.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

thats a nice body on that pinto. no rust .

The Pinto got a lot of shit, for what was really a minor flaw.

It was way ahead of it's time, overhead cam, 4 cylinder that got 30-35 MPG.

[TheTexan]

Let's make sure noone kidnaps your kids by kidnapping them for you.

[Kluge]

My grandfather had some sort of American-made hatchback--all I remember is that it was yellow with black stripes, it looked sort of like the Pinto, but it wasn't. For some reason my mom was in the hospital and he was taking me to visit, he made a fast left turn and my door swung open. He just grabbed onto my arm and said "It always does that. Hold on!"

Wish I could remember what that car was.

[specsaregood]

My grandfather had some sort of American-made hatchback--all I remember is that it was yellow with black stripes, it looked sort of like the Pinto, but it wasn't. For some reason my mom was in the hospital and he was taking me to visit, he made a fast left turn and my door swung open. He just grabbed onto my arm and said "It always does that. Hold on!"

Wish I could remember what that car was.

Gremlin?
http://i.cnn.net/money/galleries/2007/autos/0708/gallery.questionable_cars/images/1972_gremlin_xlt.jpg

[KCIndy]

My grandfather had some sort of American-made hatchback--all I remember is that it was yellow with black stripes, it looked sort of like the Pinto, but it wasn't. For some reason my mom was in the hospital and he was taking me to visit, he made a fast left turn and my door swung open. He just grabbed onto my arm and said "It always does that. Hold on!"

Wish I could remember what that car was.


Wasn't a Chevy Vega, was it? (I'll have to see if I can find a picture)


EDIT: AHA! Yeah, specs - I forgot about the lil' Gremlin. What a car! :D

[Anti Federalist]

Gremlin?
http://i.cnn.net/money/galleries/2007/autos/0708/gallery.questionable_cars/images/1972_gremlin_xlt.jpg


Wasn't a Chevy Vega, was it? (I'll have to see if I can find a picture)


EDIT: AHA! Yeah, specs - I forgot about the lil' Gremlin. What a car! :D

Those were my first two picks.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/10/chevy-vega.jpg

[Kluge]

Gremlin?
http://i.cnn.net/money/galleries/2007/autos/0708/gallery.questionable_cars/images/1972_gremlin_xlt.jpg

That's it!

[Anti Federalist]

My pappy said:

"Son, Imma gonna ship you to the Kremlin!

If you don't quit driving that Hot Rod Gremlin."

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aSjTIcCOYjM/T2ohNYKMeaI/AAAAAAAALYk/3RjwlccoBYI/s640/wally_booth_gremlin_launching_2-jpg.jpeg

[Brian4Liberty]

Well now, this really seemed to touch a nerve.

I thought it might have been in the 80s when everything started to go downhill, but there are plenty of 30 something posters saying that they grew up relatively free as well.

Question: when did this change?

Mid 90s crime wave?

9/11?

Later?

Hmmm. What a coincidence. A national news story today was about the first missing child put on a milk carton...


http://www.wbir.com/national/article/217013/16/Search-resumes-for-Etan-Patz-1st-milk-carton-kid

Search resumes for Etan Patz, 1st milk carton kid

By Michael Winter, USA TODAY *

New York City police and the FBI are searching the vacant basement of a lower Manhattan building for the possible remains of a 6-year-old boy who disappeared 33 years ago and was the first missing child to appear on milk cartons, USA TODAY's Kevin Johnson reports.

Etan Patz vanished May 25, 1979, during the two-block walk from his home at 113 Prince Street in SoHo to catch a bus to school. It was his first time walking alone.

[presence]

The concussion/whole day of memory permanently gone skiing incident I had in winter 2009 convinced me that helmets are actually not always a good idea.
I wasn't even going that fast, but fell down backward and hit my head on hard-pack snow.
Only the helmet increases the surface area of what's getting hit.
And there's zero padding in there.

Check out protec's wake boarding helmets; they're made with soft foam... not "street legal" but really nice.


My two cents on this thread... I was definitely riding my bike around Dumont, NJ ages 5-8 with my friends every summer day; same age group... zero parental supervision; walking to school when mom couldn't drive me.... building forts in the overgrowth at creek/drainage ditch on weekends.

We're talking 5 miles from the George Washington Bridge into NYC...

Google map, Dumont:

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&q=dumont,+nj&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89c2f02463141139:0x896f7c64c3dba756,Dumont ,+NJ&gl=us&ei=beWQT6ijG8TN6QGiqsnABA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CDYQ8gEwAQ

I don't remember there being any issues...

One time when I was 4 mom left me home for an hour or so "on the phone with grandma"... I put the phone in the kitchen drawer and turned on Seasame Street.

presence

[donnay]

A much better story than reading about another child abduction.

What? You don't think this incident doesn't have the same affect on a small child!

[specsaregood]

./

[KCIndy]

In many ways the overprotective nature of today's society should be expected. Modern americans are waiting to a much older age to start families and even then the # of children has been dropping. If you are near the end of your reproductive age range and you only have 1 child it makes sense from a genetic level that you would devote more resources towards making sure your lone spawn survives as it might be your only chance to see your genes pass on.


That's a really interesting perspective, and one I hadn't considered before. Add to that the fact that people naturally become more cautious themselves as they get older. How many people in their thirties and forties have ever looked back at their teenage/college years and said, "I can't believe I did xxxxxx and lived to tell about it..."

[donnay]

Wasn't a Chevy Vega, was it? (I'll have to see if I can find a picture)

My old man had a white Chevy Vega--manual transmission. That is how I learned how to drive a manual transmission. It was either that car or drive around in my mother's Sherman Tank, green Chevy Impala wagon! When I drove that to school old men would hit on me! :rolleyes:

This...
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4662879012782187&id=3b3bb29dbe74bdee8ca94944dac21dfb&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.bit-man.com%2fpictures%2falbum%2fcars%2f1970%2fslides% 2f1976%2520Chevrolet%2520Vega%2520Cosworth-white-fVl%3dmx%3d.jpg

Or this...
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4550531281256987&id=334846b99f607962943c80b57f0f9d39&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.collectorcarads.com%2fPicture 2%2fchevelle3-14-084379.jpg

[KCIndy]

My old man had a white Chevy Vega--manual transmission. That is how I learned how to drive a manual transmission. It was either that car or drive around in my mother's Sherman Tank, green Chevy Impala wagon! When I drove that to school old men would hit on me! :rolleyes:



Ha!

Funny you should mention learning to drive in a Vega. I learned to drive in a '72 Vega hatchback. What a crazy little buzzbomb of a car.

[azxd]

What the heck? Didn't read 8 pages, but don't tell me people here have a problem with a 9 year old watching a 6 year old while outside playing.
I've only been alive for 3 decades, and even I remember a time when this was normal.
In a small city, before cellphones even. Just be home by dinner.
Physical abuse is pretty cut and dry and easy to identify. Negligence is a totally subjective concept. Quit trying to Nerf the world.
At least these kids were outside. I'd say parents who let their kids sit in front of screens for hours a day are far more negligent.The only one who really had a problem with this was the person in the article who called the cops.

[azxd]

Well now, this really seemed to touch a nerve.

I thought it might have been in the 80s when everything started to go downhill, but there are plenty of 30 something posters saying that they grew up relatively free as well.

Question: when did this change?

Mid 90s crime wave?

9/11?

Later?It didn't change ... People called the cops on their perceptions of abused children before either of us were born.

The only thing that changed is the level of communication we have available.

[phill4paul]

My old man had a white Chevy Vega--manual transmission. That is how I learned how to drive a manual transmission. It was either that car or drive around in my mother's Sherman Tank, green Chevy Impala wagon! When I drove that to school old men would hit on me! :rolleyes:

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4550531281256987&id=334846b99f607962943c80b57f0f9d39&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.collectorcarads.com%2fPicture 2%2fchevelle3-14-084379.jpg

Why couldn't I get old women to hit on me when I drove my 1969 Concouse Estate to H.S. :confused: Paging Mrs. Robinson....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVS2FcbfYM

[donnay]

It didn't change ... People called the cops on their perceptions of abused children before either of us were born.

The only thing that changed is the level of communication we have available.


I am not buying that...my mother was kidnapped in NY in 1945, and it wasn't the cops who rescued her it was three teenage boys on bikes who saw my mother being kidnapped and followed the man to a remote place and waited until he opened up his van doors to get my mother and they jumped him and told my mother to run!

[donnay]

Why couldn't I get old women to hit on me when I drove my 1969 Concouse Estate to H.S. :confused: Paging Mrs. Robinson....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVS2FcbfYM


LOL! I hated station wagons then, I hate them now!!

I used to think it was so wrong for older (married) men (mid-life crisis) to be driving around in really nice sports cars when I was younger. LOL!!!

[Anti Federalist]

LOL! I hated station wagons then, I hate them now!!

I used to think it was so wrong for older (married) men (mid-life crisis) to be driving around in really nice sports cars when I was younger. LOL!!!

Soooo...I shouldn't introduce you to the new Wagon Queen Family Truckster I just bought?

http://nozama.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ed05fc2883301127972446028a4-400wi

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/christmas_vacation_small.jpg

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114020922/uncyclopedia/images/4/48/Trollface_small_normal2pl7.png

[Anti Federalist]

Haters gonna Hate.

I don't care what ya'll say, this is shit hot and I'd drive the hell out of this. (and I don't even care for Chevies)

http://i.imgur.com/oHeDK.jpg

[donnay]

Soooo...I shouldn't introduce you to the new Wagon Queen Family Truckster I just bought?

http://nozama.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ed05fc2883301127972446028a4-400wi

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/christmas_vacation_small.jpg

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114020922/uncyclopedia/images/4/48/Trollface_small_normal2pl7.png


http://www.amovingtrain.com/transmissions1/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/screaming_pain_by_phosu.jpg

[phill4paul]

Haters gonna Hate.

I don't care what ya'll say, this is shit hot and I'd drive the hell out of this. (and I don't even care for Chevies)

http://i.imgur.com/oHeDK.jpg

Much better looking than my 'Green Hornet." Still, I can't say that I ever hated my station wagon. When I was a kid I saw quite a bit of America looking out the back window. When I was old enough to drive it got me to school and work. Back in the day when "cruisin' the mall' was the in thing I could load it up. And of course certain 'rights of passage' in the ready made 'hotel' on wheels. Nope not the 'coolest' ride, but it didn't suck either.

[Kluge]

Acch! I love station wagons! It's freaking minivans that I hate.

Check out this badass wagon:

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1950-1959/1959-Dodge-Station-Wagon-orange-le.jpg

Love the matching interior!

[Anti Federalist]

Acch! I love station wagons! It's freaking minivans that I hate.

Check out this badass wagon:

Bad ass wagon is bad ass.

Pffft...talk to Mrs. AF.

That's the family truckster right now, a freakin minivan. I feel like such a tool driving that thing around. Makes me want to punch myself.

And she hates my truck.

[Anti Federalist]

Much better looking than my 'Green Hornet." Still, I can't say that I ever hated my station wagon. When I was a kid I saw quite a bit of America looking out the back window. When I was old enough to drive it got me to school and work. Back in the day when "cruisin' the mall' was the in thing I could load it up. And of course certain 'rights of passage' in the ready made 'hotel' on wheels. Nope not the 'coolest' ride, but it didn't suck either.

No kidding, that too.

Just try and get laid in the back of a sport/ute/minivan crossover.

Between the loss of interior room taken up by the 16 gajillion airbags, the "Torquemada" seating in modern cars, that resembles a cross between a medieval torture device and a 27 support point, HANS device equipped NASCAR seat, there is not enough wiggle room for a pair of romantically inclined cats, let alone a couple of full sized people.

Not to mention the onboard, ever fucking computers that, if they were not broadcasting your tryst to the world wide web, they would be too busy pestering you with all sorts of alarms and buzzers and nagging female voices that seem to start the second you turn the key for a little mood music, that it would make a porn star go limp.

These are car seats, goddammit:

http://buick.carphoto.biz/var/1/9-buick-estate-wagon-1958-bench-seats.jpg

[Kluge]

Bad ass wagon is bad ass.

Pffft...talk to Mrs. AF.

That's the family truckster right now, a freakin minivan. I feel like such a tool driving that thing around. Makes me want to punch myself.

And she hates my truck.

Hahahahaa! You drive a mommy-van. :p Will she at least let you put some bumper sticker on it just to be ironic? I suggest the following:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Public-Enemy-PE-hip-hop-car-bumper-sticker-6-x-3-/10/!BTk4)ngB2k~$(KGrHgoH-CoEjlLluzl+BKJL3O3lFQ~~_35.GIF

I don't think me talking to her will help much.

Oh, and just one more thing:

http://urlybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/whipped-600x480.jpg

[Danke]

That's the family truckster right now, a freakin minivan. I feel like such a tool driving that thing around. Makes me want to punch myself.


You need to replace your avatar. Seriously.

[Anti Federalist]

ಠ_ಠ

Oh, who am I kidding...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJxCdh1Ps48


Hahahahaa! You drive a mommy-van. :p Will she at least let you put some bumper sticker on it just to be ironic? I suggest the following:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Public-Enemy-PE-hip-hop-car-bumper-sticker-6-x-3-/10/!BTk4)ngB2k~$(KGrHgoH-CoEjlLluzl+BKJL3O3lFQ~~_35.GIF

I don't think me talking to her will help much.

Oh, and just one more thing:

http://urlybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/whipped-600x480.jpg

[Kluge]

You need to replace your avatar. Seriously.

I agree.

Or get one of these strapped on to it:

http://mediocrefacemelt.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/minivannn.jpg?w=500&h=333

[Kluge]

http://www.turbovan.net/dadbadass.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

You need to replace your avatar. Seriously.

I was thinking of it, seriously.

Maybe this:

http://i.imgur.com/tnoFV.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

My truck helps make up for it...

http://images1.americanlisted.com/nlarge/1993_ford_f150_extended_cab_2200_houston_11069755. jpg

[Kluge]

My truck helps make up for it...

http://images1.americanlisted.com/nlarge/1993_ford_f150_extended_cab_2200_houston_11069755. jpg

Bet you only get to drive it when you're going somewhere by yourself. :p

[Danke]

Bet you only get to drive it when you're going somewhere by yourself. :p

lol, "4 SALE."

[Anti Federalist]

lol, "4 SALE."

Not "my" truck.

Just an appropriately ratty looking one that is similar.

[Anti Federalist]

Bet you only get to drive it when you're going somewhere by yourself. :p

Yes ma'am.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19068656.jpg

[Danke]

Not "my" truck.

Just an appropriately ratty looking one that is similar.

;)

[Danke]

My truck helps make up for it...

http://images1.americanlisted.com/nlarge/1993_ford_f150_extended_cab_2200_houston_11069755. jpg

Great for hauling heavy loads from Walmart.

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43063

[John F Kennedy III]

Human resources.

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2012/4/4/62431ccf-621c-42a8-b003-e65291854a3d_thumb.jpg

[donnay]

Acch! I love station wagons! It's freaking minivans that I hate.

Check out this badass wagon:

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1950-1959/1959-Dodge-Station-Wagon-orange-le.jpg

Love the matching interior!



I like these station wagons...

http://www.stationwagon.com/gallery/pictures/1948_Plymouth_Woody.jpg

Or one of these Jeep Wagoneers...

http://dayerses.com/data_images/posts/jeep-wagoneer/jeep-wagoneer-10.jpg


But not one of these... :toady:

http://stationwagonforums.com/forums/gallery/files/6/1977FordLTDIISquire.jpg

[donnay]

Yes ma'am.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19068656.jpg


Tell them why I do not ride in your truck!!!

He has it jacked up so high that I need a ladder to get in it. He doesn't even help me, he rather laugh at me trying to climb into it!!!!!

[donnay]

Bad ass wagon is bad ass.

Pffft...talk to Mrs. AF.

That's the family truckster right now, a freakin minivan. I feel like such a tool driving that thing around. Makes me want to punch myself.

And she hates my truck.


Oh! Oh! For the record-- I am no soccer MOM!!! My car is a Jeep Cherokee. He hates my Jeep! I love my Jeep!!! The minivan was bought as a trade-in for a pig of a Dodge conversion van that could not get out of it's own way--that he bought, not I!!

[Anti Federalist]

Tell them why I do not ride in your truck!!!

He has it jacked up so high that I need a ladder to get in it. He doesn't even help me, he rather laugh at me trying to climb into it!!!!!

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114020922/uncyclopedia/images/4/48/Trollface_small_normal2pl7.png

[Indy Vidual]

What happens to kids who don't have strong guidance? :p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDl6iuku_mw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbh_k5GLRuQ

[JebSanderson]

These are car seats, goddammit:

http://buick.carphoto.biz/var/1/9-buick-estate-wagon-1958-bench-seats.jpg

But where are the seatbelts?!?!?

[azxd]

I am not buying that...my mother was kidnapped in NY in 1945, and it wasn't the cops who rescued her it was three teenage boys on bikes who saw my mother being kidnapped and followed the man to a remote place and waited until he opened up his van doors to get my mother and they jumped him and told my mother to run!Exceptions exist, and I didn't say the cops rescued anyone ... Did I ?

Is there a reading comprehension issue going on, or are you just looking to argue, stupidly :D ?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

It didn't change ... People called the cops on their perceptions of abused children before either of us were born.

The only thing that changed is the level of communication we have available.


More or less communication? I'd imagine people used to communicate with the parents first and either educate them or socially pressure them.

We may have a lot of fancy gadgets, but it seems the real level of communication is becoming less and less. "See something - say something" is not intended for neighbor communication, but that is how it should be first.

[Anti Federalist]

http://stationwagonforums.com/forums/gallery/files/6/1977FordLTDIISquire.jpg

That is so cool, just for the hood alone.

I mean, c'mon, that's not like the little sensitive girlie cars of today, where, say, if you had the mind to play some GTA for real, you have to be all up in it, and get involved, and be upset about it, because it was, you know, happening right in front of you.

You could hop in that thing there, drive fast, drunk and on drugs, and no matter what happened, shit, it would be a like a civil war in Africa, all way out there, halfway around the world, instead of all right in your face, where you'd have to spill your drink to deal with it.

[phill4paul]

Yes ma'am.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19068656.jpg

This I don't understand. Down south, around here, ....

"Git in the truck, Bitch." is male-dominate foreplay.

[Kluge]

This I don't understand. Down south, around here, ....

"Git in the truck, Bitch." is male-dominate foreplay.

Ouch! One more kick to a minivan-driving fella while he's down.

[Danke]

This I don't understand. Down south, around here, ....

"Git in the truck, Bitch." is male-dominate foreplay.

I'm moving.

[Anti Federalist]

Ouch! One more kick to a minivan-driving fella while he's down.

It has some rust along the bottom of the passenger side doors.

You should see the bad ass bondo and urethane foam repair I just did.

That should be worth at least one testosterone point, no?

[The Goat]

Ouch! One more kick to a minivan-driving fella while he's down.

LOL, my wife wishes we would have bought a double cab truck instead of her SUV.

[Kluge]

It has some rust along the bottom of the passenger side doors.

You should see the bad ass bondo and urethane foam repair I just did.

That should be worth at least one testosterone point, no?

Bondo will score you one t-point, yes. However, the minivan itself is like -1,000 t-points. You have a beat-up old truck, so that gets you +400, and you're a Ron Paultard, so that gets you +600. So you're +1 at this point.

Caution is advised.

[Danke]

Bondo will score you one t-point, yes. However, the minivan itself is like -1,000 t-points. You have a beat-up old truck, so that gets you +400, and you're a Ron Paultard, so that gets you +600. So you're +1 at this point.

Caution is advised.


um, sailor boy, so minus some more points.

[Anti Federalist]

Bondo will score you one t-point, yes. However, the minivan itself is like -1,000 t-points. You have a beat-up old truck, so that gets you +400, and you're a Ron Paultard, so that gets you +600. So you're +1 at this point.

Caution is advised.

Guns.

Lots of guns.

http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2009/09/MatrixWeNeedGuns-20080503-084716.jpg

And I played V for Halloween in 2007.

[Anti Federalist]

um, sailor boy, so minus some more points.

Silence, 'tween decks.

[The Goat]

This is a mans Minivan.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtKpiNBmkCo

[angelatc]

This I don't understand. Down south, around here, ....

"Git in the truck, Bitch." is male-dominate foreplay.

Yep, and "Nice truck," means she freaking wants you.

[Danke]

Silence, 'tween decks.

Plus cruising Walmart chicks, minus some more points.

[Danke]

This is a mans Minivan.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtKpiNBmkCo
Frick, AF is wetting his pants now.

[Kluge]

um, sailor boy, so minus some more points.


Guns.

Lots of guns.

http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2009/09/MatrixWeNeedGuns-20080503-084716.jpg

And I played V for Halloween in 2007.

Hmmm...I'll have to do some calculations, but those things may cancel each other out.

[donnay]

Exceptions exist, and I didn't say the cops rescued anyone ... Did I ?

Is there a reading comprehension issue going on, or are you just looking to argue, stupidly :D ?


You do have a knack for rallying around the standing army err the cops. So I just wanted to interject a true story that cops didn't help my mother, average teenagers riding bikes (with no helmets) did.

[donnay]

It has some rust along the bottom of the passenger side doors.

You should see the bad ass bondo and urethane foam repair I just did.

That should be worth at least one testosterone point, no?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK63eUyk-iM&feature=related

[Danke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK63eUyk-iM&feature=related

You know him better than anyone here. So I guess this is his behavior on board the boats he commands.

[Anti Federalist]

You know him better than anyone here. So I guess this is his behavior on board the boats he commands.

More like this.

The boss:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIyWcxPlEU&feature=related

Me and the crew:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCHy0XXHknw&feature=relmfu

This is no lie, I keep a copy of HMS Pinafore to play on the bridge when it gets too crowded with hangers on.

Clears the place out like a stink bomb.

[donnay]

You know him better than anyone here. So I guess this is his behavior on board the boats he commands.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdbug_mxKks&feature=related

[Danke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw&feature=related

[Anti Federalist]

Ahab

That's it.

I'm growing a neck beard just like that.

[donnay]

That's it.

I'm growing a neck beard just like that.

Ugh!

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4987398160974199&id=0f00a4c29c331847ef4c4a271142e0e2&url=http%3a%2f%2fus.123rf.com%2f400wm%2f400%2f400% 2fmalchev%2fmalchev1012%2fmalchev101200007%2f85290 62-a-leprechaun-presenting-your-product-or-message--no-transparency-used-basic-linear-gradients-used.jpg
"Always After My Lucky Charms..."

I think this would suit you better...
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4884215864429401&id=047fa410a06890b93baa109ee855e3a6&url=http%3a%2f%2fimages.wikia.com%2fwowwiki%2fimag es%2fd%2fd9%2fGnomeMale.jpg

[helmuth_hubener]

While I don't agree with the woman's solution, that was an absolutely asinine thing for the father to do. No it wasn't. Get real. As a child I wandered around alone all the time. Being in a park alone is no problem. Do people freak out now if they see a 9-year-old bicycling down the street alone? Where are his parents? Where is he going? Why doesn't he have a helmet on? Aaaahhhhhh, too much scary, my head acksplode.

[Danke]

That's it.

I'm growing a neck beard just like that.

you weren't getting laid anyway.

And besides, your shipmates might take a fancy towards it.

[Danke]

No it wasn't. Get real. As a child I wandered around alone all the time. Being in a park alone is no problem. Do people freak out now if they see a 9-year-old bicycling down the street alone? Where are his parents? Where is he going? Why doesn't he have a helmet on? Aaaahhhhhh, too much scary, my head acksplode.

She repented.

[Anti Federalist]

you weren't getting laid anyway.

And besides, your shipmates might take a fancy towards it.

Eh, nvm, better not to comment.

:-|

[azxd]

Exceptions exist, and I didn't say the cops rescued anyone ... Did I ?

Is there a reading comprehension issue going on, or are you just looking to argue, stupidly :D ?

You do have a knack for rallying around the standing army err the cops. So I just wanted to interject a true story that cops didn't help my mother, average teenagers riding bikes (with no helmets) did.A side-tracked mind :cool:

[azxd]

No it wasn't. Get real. As a child I wandered around alone all the time. Being in a park alone is no problem. Do people freak out now if they see a 9-year-old bicycling down the street alone? Where are his parents? Where is he going? Why doesn't he have a helmet on? Aaaahhhhhh, too much scary, my head acksplode.Adult tosses 2 kids out of venicle and drives away ... Hmm.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/04/120420_EXP_KidOnMilkCarton-EX.jpg.CROP.article250-medium.jpg
Why Did Missing Children Start Showing Up on Milk Cartons?
And why don't they appear on milk cartons today?
By Brian Palmer (http://www.slate.com/authors.brian_palmer.html)|Posted Friday, April 20, 2012, at 5:53 PM ET
The FBI and the New York Police Department have resumed the search for Etan Patz (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/19/11286057-fbi-nypd-resume-search-for-etan-patz-who-went-missing-in-1979), who went missing in 1979 at the age of 6. Patz was one of the first missing children to appear on a milk carton. How did photos of missing children end up on milk cartons?
SNIP

[AgentOrange]

Accidents happen, and they can happen fast. I remember a friend of mine who walked to school each day (back when this was allowed), she slipped and fell on ice, gashing her head. There was noone around to help her, so she finished walking to school and comes in covered with blood. She turned out OK...but what if she had been completely knocked out and left lying in the snow for who knows how long? What if one of this guys children had fallen off the swing or something & broke her arm. Did they have a cell phone or anyway to get ahold of their dad? Predators seek out children alone for periods of time like these girls were. There were lots of missing/murdered children back in the idyllic 50's, 60's, & 70's.

I agree, calling the police was a bit over the top, but its not safe to leave children that young alone, not at all. It wasn't safe back in the 50's, 60's, 70',s and its even less safe today. Since this lady knew the children, why didn't she just talk to the dad when he got back and explain why leaving the children alone is a bad idea? It was kind of her to watch them, but maybe she had to leave and couldn't watch them anymore, so she chose to call the police, rather than leave them alone to whatever fate befalls them.

Children aren't adults, they shouldn't be expected to take fend for themselves.

[anewvoice]

Of course you have that right, I was speaking in a metaphorical sense. I also have the right to think that anyone who lets their 6 year old walk around alone is an idiot.

Yes, and at not point is law enforcement called as there is no law being broken.

I grew up in a much smaller community than SE Michigan is now and we wandered for an entire day, played in the river, went to the pool... We met other kids, other adults and even one cross-dresser (which in our small town was not something you'd be aware of). None of that was an issue but it was supposedly "safer" back then.

Now I have kids and as part of my parenting I have decided to not be over protective. I used to go to the park with them and watch, and caught myself being ridiculously stressed about the unsafe metal slide with no handles or rails. Remembering back to skateboards and pretty much the same metal slide, not to mention the whirly-go-round, I had to step back.

And all of that is my right. I choose where my kids can go and cannot. I choose their time to leave and go. They choose to listen or not (I'm hoping for 50%+).

And again, no need for law enforcement, no laws are being broken.

[anewvoice]

Accidents happen, and they can happen fast. I remember a friend of mine who walked to school each day (back when this was allowed), she slipped and fell on ice, gashing her head. There was noone around to help her, so she finished walking to school and comes in covered with blood. She turned out OK...but what if she had been completely knocked out and left lying in the snow for who knows how long? What if one of this guys children had fallen off the swing or something & broke her arm. Did they have a cell phone or anyway to get ahold of their dad? Predators seek out children alone for periods of time like these girls were. There were lots of missing/murdered children back in the idyllic 50's, 60's, & 70's.

I agree, calling the police was a bit over the top, but its not safe to leave children that young alone, not at all. It wasn't safe back in the 50's, 60's, 70',s and its even less safe today. Since this lady knew the children, why didn't she just talk to the dad when he got back and explain why leaving the children alone is a bad idea? It was kind of her to watch them, but maybe she had to leave and couldn't watch them anymore, so she chose to call the police, rather than leave them alone to whatever fate befalls them.

Children aren't adults, they shouldn't be expected to take fend for themselves.

While I don't allow my girls out without their older brother, how do you know the circumstances? How far from home was this playground? If this lady knew the children and was watching (like many of my parents friends did to us), did that make them unsafe or rather did it make them monitored? How many people in that community knew them and watched? How often did they play at this park alone? Was it near a school? Was it near a crack-house? You have to assume that the lady who knew the children also knew the parent in some capacity. Did she have an issue with him? Oh wait, where was the mother, she didn't even bother to be there so maybe she should be charged with negligence too? What if the father had an open carry license and had a gun with him at the playground, what would you think then? Is that being protective to his kids or a danger to others?

I've been given shit for having my kids sit in my locked car outside a 7-11, in clear view of me while I pick up slurpies. Safe or not, I'd sit in the back of my grandpas pickup truck while he'd pick up beer, and a cream soda for me. Was he unsafe and negligent?

We'll all have differing opinions no doubt, but this is not a law enforcement issue, not as defined in that article.

[anewvoice]

When I was around that age, I used to go hiking in the woods halfway up a mountain with my cousins who were the same age.

Sometimes I would just wander into the woods or streets alone to do whatever it was I wanted to do. I walked and road my bike everywhere around that age.

I walked to middle school about 3 miles. And yes, there were steep hills going both ways, and there was snow.

But were you bare foot?

[azxd]

Comparing your past to the present, and another is not really relevant.

When I was a kid ... All things were possible.

[helmuth_hubener]

She repented. Ahh, OK. That's good. Three cheers for unsupervised childhood!

[Yieu]

Tell them why I do not ride in your truck!!!

He has it jacked up so high that I need a ladder to get in it. He doesn't even help me, he rather laugh at me trying to climb into it!!!!!

LOL... I'd probably do the same, if I had a large truck... it would be amusing. ;)


http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114020922/uncyclopedia/images/4/48/Trollface_small_normal2pl7.png

Good man. :D

[Yieu]

But were you bare foot?

No, it wasn't that long ago.


Now I have kids and as part of my parenting I have decided to not be over protective.

Careful, that is situationally and subjectively illegal.

[rockerrockstar]

I always wondered why there was not many kids playing out side like when I was a kid. I thought it was because of nitendo or sony playstations or xbox. I never thought it was the law. I did think parents are more paranoid now days because of the media. I guess it depends on the neighborhood. How safe is the town. I lived in a small town when growing up and there was virtually no crime. So I did play out side a lot unsupervised when growing up. I remember coming home before my parents got home from work and being there for several hours before they showed up. I would watch my little bother. I don't think it was that crazy. Parents could get in trouble for that now days.

[donnay]

LOL... I'd probably do the same, if I had a large truck... it would be amusing. ;)



Good man. :D


I see how you men are!


http://www.laff-away.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/no-spongebob.jpg

[anewvoice]

I always wondered why there was not many kids playing out side like when I was a kid. I thought it was because of nitendo or sony playstations or xbox. I never thought it was the law. I did think parents are more paranoid now days because of the media. I guess it depends on the neighborhood. How safe is the town. I lived in a small town when growing up and there was virtually no crime. So I did play out side a lot unsupervised when growing up. I remember coming home before my parents got home from work and being there for several hours before they showed up. I would watch my little bother. I don't think it was that crazy. Parents could get in trouble for that now days.

That's a good point, I've often lamented that you rarely see pick-up sports games anymore. When I was a kid (LOL, couldn't resist) there would always be a game being played somewhere. Kids would just show up and games would happen. Makes sense if kids are not at parks without parents, they're not going to start a game. Parent there means there is a limit to play time which would make sense to be fewer games.

[Yieu]

I see how you men are!

To be honest, I tease her because it usually makes for a cute reaction.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114020922/uncyclopedia/images/4/48/Trollface_small_normal2pl7.png

[Evangelical_Protestant]

Wow, my dad must be a horrible parent then LOL. He had my eight year old brother babysit me when I was 3-6, as well as feed me, answer the phone, vacuum, and any other household responsibility you can think of while he worked during the day in the summer times back in the late eighties early nineties.

Times are a little different. In the early nineties my dad would send me to the grocery to pick up cigarettes, and all I had to have was a written note with his signature when I was ten years old. He said in the fifties people would be allowed to do the same thing with beer! Times change fast. Not that kids should be able to purchase beer and cigarettes, but it does help to put into perspective the extreme shift in the American personality recently.

[JebSanderson]

Wow, my dad must be a horrible parent then LOL. He had my eight year old brother babysit me when I was 3-6, as well as feed me, answer the phone, vacuum, and any other household responsibility you can think of while he worked during the day in the summer times back in the late eighties early nineties.

What if a child rapist had called?!?!?!?

[Travlyr]

Ahh, OK. That's good. Three cheers for unsupervised childhood!

And therein lies the problem. If we hadn't been allowed to be free when we were young, then we wouldn't be longing for freedom now.

[Anti Federalist]

And therein lies the problem. If we hadn't been allowed to be free when we were young, then we wouldn't be longing for freedom now.

And thus, shipmates, doth endeth this thread.

If all you know is hovering nannyism, then it would stand to reason that is all you would ever expect out of life, and the loss of freedom, you would not even be aware of.

Like describing wet to a fish, you are surrounded by surveillance since the moment of your birth.

[Evangelical_Protestant]

What if a child rapist had called?!?!?!?

Then my brother would have said, " I'm sorry sir, it is not authorized to rape the children of this household. If you would like to leave me a detailed message of why you called so I can relay it to my dad then I would be happy to do so. If not, then you have a good day sir, and God bless."

[Anti Federalist]

Accidents happen, and they can happen fast. I remember a friend of mine who walked to school each day (back when this was allowed), she slipped and fell on ice, gashing her head. There was noone around to help her, so she finished walking to school and comes in covered with blood. She turned out OK...but what if she had been completely knocked out and left lying in the snow for who knows how long? What if one of this guys children had fallen off the swing or something & broke her arm. Did they have a cell phone or anyway to get ahold of their dad? Predators seek out children alone for periods of time like these girls were. There were lots of missing/murdered children back in the idyllic 50's, 60's, & 70's.

I agree, calling the police was a bit over the top, but its not safe to leave children that young alone, not at all. It wasn't safe back in the 50's, 60's, 70',s and its even less safe today. Since this lady knew the children, why didn't she just talk to the dad when he got back and explain why leaving the children alone is a bad idea? It was kind of her to watch them, but maybe she had to leave and couldn't watch them anymore, so she chose to call the police, rather than leave them alone to whatever fate befalls them.

Children aren't adults, they shouldn't be expected to take fend for themselves.

Life isn't safe, and by trying our damnedest to mitigate every risk to zero, and achieve perfect safety, you create a life not worth living.

Besides, statistically, you are wrong, rates of abduction and child killing are much lower now than they were 30 years ago.

[specsaregood]

Besides, statistically, you are wrong, rates of abduction and child killing are much lower now than they were 30 years ago.

So what youare saying is that the nanny/police state is working! That sounds like an endorsement to me.

[Evangelical_Protestant]

I want to be unsafe and free damnit!

[JebSanderson]

Then my brother would have said, " I'm sorry sir, it is not authorized to rape the children of this household. If you would like to leave me a detailed message of why you called so I can relay it to my dad then I would be happy to do so. If not, then you have a good day sir, and God bless."

lol, your dad raised such polite children

[JebSanderson]

So what youare saying is that the nanny/police state is working! That sounds like an endorsement to me.

AF is a self confessed communist so that shouldn't surprise us.

[Anti Federalist]

So what youare saying is that the nanny/police state is working! That sounds like an endorsement to me.

Nah, not really.

Crime goes in cycles, just like climate.

I posted a graph showing violent crime rates going all the way back to the 19th century in the US.

It was low around 1900, spiked up through the middle of the 30s, declined through to the early 60s, spiked again through the 80s and declined through the late 90s, after peaking in the early 90s, to now.

I'll have to dig that up and re-post it.

And all of it without a giant police/surveillance/prison state which is a relatively new phenomenon.

You could make the case that the tremendous rise in armed citizens and concealed carry, something that was pretty much non existent until about 1990 or so had a great deal to do with it as well.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d-tc-ZVa5NY/TvNunTXY2WI/AAAAAAAAAhw/gZILbJeDWuI/s1600/image001.png

[JebSanderson]

Crime goes in cycles, just like climate.

Endorsement of the global warming theory? Seems like it :p

[Evangelical_Protestant]

Nah, not really.

Crime goes in cycles, just like climate.

I posted a graph showing violent crime rates going all the way back to the 19th century in the US.

It was low around 1900, spiked up through the middle of the 30s, declined through to the early 60s, spiked again through the 80s and declined through the late 90s, after peaking in the early 90s, to now.

I'll have to dig that up and re-post it.

And all of it without a giant police/surveillance/prison state.

You could make the case that the tremendous rise in armed citizens and concealed carry, something that was pretty much non existent until about 1990 or so had a great deal to do with it as well.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d-tc-ZVa5NY/TvNunTXY2WI/AAAAAAAAAhw/gZILbJeDWuI/s1600/image001.png

I bet I could make a chart showing how the regulation of jelly beans reduces violent crime! *sigh* Life is not about charts or graphs or new and awesome university 'studies' , its about being free, happy, and loving. I hope we stop setting our policies based on stats, and more on human emotional wealth soon.

Those who murder should be brought to justice. Punishments should be ridiculously strict. Steal a horse? Prepare to die. Rape someone? You will die. Convictions should be very hard to achieve, but for those convicted the penalty should be harsh. No more assuming the general population is always guilty before a crime was even committed. Legalize freedom please. Thank-you, and God bless.

[Anti Federalist]

Those who murder should be brought to justice. Punishments should be ridiculously strict. Steal a horse? Prepare to die. Rape someone? You will die. Convictions should be very hard to achieve, but for those convicted the penalty should be harsh. No more assuming the general population is always guilty before a crime was even committed. Legalize freedom please. Thank-you, and God bless.

I do not support the death penalty.

[Evangelical_Protestant]

I bet I could make a chart showing how the regulation of jelly beans reduces violent crime! *sigh* Life is not about charts or graphs or new and awesome university 'studies' , its about being free, happy, and loving. I hope we stop setting our policies based on stats, and more on human emotional wealth soon.

Those who murder should be brought to justice. Punishments should be ridiculously strict. Steal a horse? Prepare to die. Rape someone? You will die. Convictions should be very hard to achieve, but for those convicted the penalty should be harsh. No more assuming the general population is always guilty before a crime was even committed. Legalize freedom please. Thank-you, and God bless.

I think I mis-interpreted the graph before I went on a freedom rant. LOL! Oh well. Freedom is good :)

[Anti Federalist]

I think I mis-interpreted the graph before I went on a freedom rant. LOL! Oh well. Freedom is good :)

I think you did too.

While at it, since we are both all about freedom, rethink that capital punishment stance as well.

;)

[Evangelical_Protestant]

I do not support the death penalty.

I understand. I don't support it either in the current set-up. Its too easy to convict and re-try.

But if a state changed the jury process to where there is no such thing as a hung jury, and either all twelve vote to condemn, or the accused cannot be re-tried even if eleven voted to condemn, and one voted not to condemn, then I would support it.

Even though its horrible, I think death is not always unjust.

[Evangelical_Protestant]

I understand. I don't support it either in the current set-up. Its too easy to convict and re-try.

But if a state changed the jury process to where there is no such thing as a hung jury, and either all twelve vote to condemn, or the accused cannot be re-tried even if eleven voted to condemn, and one voted not to condemn, then I would support it.

Even though its horrible, I think death is not always unjust.

And now I see I have hijacked the thread. I shall cease. LOL sorry

[Anti Federalist]

And now I see I have hijacked the thread. I shall cease. LOL sorry

It's my thread and this is relevant, or at least as relevant as a discussion on the merits of station wagons.


I understand. I don't support it either in the current set-up. Its too easy to convict and re-try.

But if a state changed the jury process to where there is no such thing as a hung jury, and either all twelve vote to condemn, or the accused cannot be re-tried even if eleven voted to condemn, and one voted not to condemn, then I would support it.

Even though its horrible, I think death is not always unjust.

It's not just the retrials.

It's a whole corrupt chain, from cop, to prosecutors, to judges, to a hand picked jury system.

Cops have sweated death row confessions out of men who were later proved to have been completely innocnet, that they could not have done the crime.

I posted a story recently about some poor bastard in Chicago that has been locked up for twenty years for a double murder that occurred while he was already in jail for an unrelated crime.

There is the, also recently posted, story about the FBI crime labs having corrupted thousands of cases with tainted and incorrect analysis and evidence and how the investigators found this out and deliberately kept the information quiet leaving innocent and potentially innocent men to rot in prison for years after the fact.

And considering that the Executive Branch has now declared the right to kill US citizens on their say alone, without any trial or judicial review, my support for any form of state administered capital punishment is now zero.

[rockerrockstar]

It's my thread and this is relevant, or at least as relevant as a discussion on the merits of station wagons.



It's not just the retrials.

It's a whole corrupt chain, from cop, to prosecutors, to judges, to a hand picked jury system.

Cops have sweated death row confessions out of men who were later proved to have been completely innocnet, that they could not have done the crime.

I posted a story recently about some poor bastard in Chicago that has been locked up for twenty years for a double murder that occurred while he was already in jail for an unrelated crime.

There is the, also recently posted, story about the FBI crime labs having corrupted thousands of cases with tainted and incorrect analysis and evidence and how the investigators found this out and deliberately kept the information quiet leaving innocent and potentially innocent men to rot in prison for years after the fact.

And considering that the Executive Branch has now declared the right to kill US citizens on their say alone, without any trial or judicial review, my support for any form of state administered capital punishment is now zero.

What if the guy is a serial killer or kills hundreds of people on a shooting rampage? Now also think of the savings of tax dollars by not keeping these bastards alive in jail tell they die. Just saying there are people that should get the death penalty.

[JebSanderson]

What if the guy is a serial killer or kills hundreds of people on a shooting rampage? Now also think of the savings of tax dollars by not keeping these bastards alive in jail tell they die. Just saying there are people that should get the death penalty.
Charles Manson comes to mind. That he wasn't executed before SCOTUS ruled the death penalty unconstitutional sucks. 40 years later and taxpayers are still paying to keep that POS clothed, fed, and sheltered.

[Anti Federalist]

What if the guy is a serial killer or kills hundreds of people on a shooting rampage? Now also think of the savings of tax dollars by not keeping these bastards alive in jail tell they die. Just saying there are people that should get the death penalty.

Nope.

Don't care.

I have seen too many wrongful convictions, too many corrupt cops, too many dirty prosecutors and too many ways to get sideways in the "justice" system to ever trust it with a man's life ever again.

There is no retrial, when new evidence comes out, from the grave.

And I, for one, wouldn't mind having Timothy McVeigh around today, to question more thoroughly.

[heavenlyboy34]

Nope.

Don't care.

I have seen too many wrongful convictions, too many corrupt cops, too many dirty prosecutors and too many ways to get sideways in the "justice" system to ever trust it with a man's life ever again.

There is no retrial, when new evidence comes out, from the grave.

And I, for one, wouldn't mind having Timothy McVeigh around today, to question more thoroughly.
I'm pretty sure Charlie Manson is relatively harmless by now too. Probably has some interesting stories to tell. :toady:

[JebSanderson]

I'm pretty sure Charlie Manson is relatively harmless by now too. Probably has some interesting stories to tell. :toady:

I bet he's not. I'm sure if you let him out he'd recruit another bunch of cretins to follow him as a cult leader. He's got quite a few fans...

[AgentOrange]

Another thought I had on this....I wouldn't have any problem with a 6 & 9 year old playing on their own property. Or a friend's property. I bet most people wouldn't. There is an expectation of privacy on ones private property (although it may not always be respected as it should be) I don't have any expectation of privacy in a public area. If someone is going to drop their children off on public property...now I still agree the woman should have talked to the dad first....but on public property, there is no expectation of privacy, and if someone else on that public property is concerned about whats happening on that public property, its logical that they might call on a public officer (police) to investigate. If one is going to use government property, they shouldn't be surprised if they are expected to follow government rules. A lot of people say its not illegal....I don't know about CA, in my area, most parks are clearly marked that children under 12 must be accompanied by an adult, and the CPS code (admittedly I'm not sure of the legal standing of their code) states that a child must be 12 to babysit.

[heavenlyboy34]

I bet he's not. I'm sure if you let him out he'd recruit another bunch of cretins to follow him as a cult leader. He's got quite a few fans...
Based on what?

[AgentOrange]

Based on what?

Well, he does still have a fan club. www.charlesmansonfanclub.com

[heavenlyboy34]

Well, he does still have a fan club. www.charlesmansonfanclub.com (http://www.charlesmansonfanclub.com)
ah, yes...excuse me-in my hurry I neglected to ask the correct question. I was referring to your claim that I was wrong when I said "I'm pretty sure Charlie Manson is relatively harmless by now too". The fact that he has a fan club is irrelevant. I'm well aware of the fan club-and that he's been getting fan mail in prison for years.

[Kluge]

ah, yes...excuse me-in my hurry I neglected to ask the correct question. I was referring to your claim that I was wrong when I said "I'm pretty sure Charlie Manson is relatively harmless by now too". The fact that he has a fan club is irrelevant. I'm well aware of the fan club-and that he's been getting fan mail in prison for years.

Just out of curiosity, is there something about Manson that you admire?

[helmuth_hubener]

The death penalty is actually the one issue that Ron Paul has changed his position on over the decades. He used to support it, for all the perfectly sound justice-related reasons Evangelical_Protestant has. But then over time he came to realize what AF has also realized: it's just too much power, too final and tragically irreversible of a power, to entrust to the government.

In fact, I'm pretty sure just using the words "entrust" and "government" in the same sentence is a serious error. On multiple levels.

[cjm]

Hey y'all-do modern playgrounds even have monkey bars and various climbing apparatus? Those were fun as hell, but I been helicopter parents and sissies would demand them torn down. :(


The ones I've seen are very very low, and have several inches of fluffy rubber padding under them. When I was a kid, the padding was called "gravel." :p

Fast moving thread. My childhood experiences were similar for the most part, more "extreme" (by today's standards) in certain cases. My parents were never arrested and I always made it home.

The comments on "dangerous" playgrounds reminded me of this article. It's a good read -- the comments are good too:

http://1000awesomethings.com/2008/07/18/980-playground-equipment/

http://1000awesomethings.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/playground.jpg?w=270&h=188

http://preservationinpink.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/bigslide.jpg?w=500&h=571

Another classic playground: http://retrocrush.com/archive2006/sfoplayground/

http://www.retrocrush.com/archive2003/teagarden/sandslide2.jpg

[donnay]

I bet he's not. I'm sure if you let him out he'd recruit another bunch of cretins to follow him as a cult leader. He's got quite a few fans...

Mason was a classic example of Mk Ultra. A tool for a military psy-op.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN_5kN-obmE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3_SiBRTU84&feature=relmfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35-X82yqgjs&feature=relmfu

[azxd]

Those who murder should be brought to justice. Punishments should be ridiculously strict. Steal a horse? Prepare to die. Rape someone? You will die. Convictions should be very hard to achieve, but for those convicted the penalty should be harsh. No more assuming the general population is always guilty before a crime was even committed. Legalize freedom please. Thank-you, and God bless.

I do not support the death penalty.Those who think as you do should have a special box on your tax form (until repealed) that allows you to donate an additional amount to finance those serving life sentences, because of the bleeding heart, don't kill the killer, mentality.

I'd rather we follow the Evangelical_Protestant idea.

[azxd]

I understand. I don't support it either in the current set-up. Its too easy to convict and re-try.

But if a state changed the jury process to where there is no such thing as a hung jury, and either all twelve vote to condemn, or the accused cannot be re-tried even if eleven voted to condemn, and one voted not to condemn, then I would support it.

Even though its horrible, I think death is not always unjust.I think you stated it well enough (I took it as you now describe) ... If it is absolute, there is no reason to spend $50,000 per year, for the next 20 years, while someone appeals their case.
If the sentence is death ... Get a rope.

[azxd]

What if the guy is a serial killer or kills hundreds of people on a shooting rampage? Now also think of the savings of tax dollars by not keeping these bastards alive in jail tell they die. Just saying there are people that should get the death penalty.YEP

[azxd]

The death penalty is actually the one issue that Ron Paul has changed his position on over the decades. He used to support it, for all the perfectly sound justice-related reasons Evangelical_Protestant has. But then over time he came to realize what AF has also realized: it's just too much power, too final and tragically irreversible of a power, to entrust to the government.

In fact, I'm pretty sure just using the words "entrust" and "government" in the same sentence is a serious error. On multiple levels.And if we restore a more limited form of government, he might start supporting it again ... Just say'n

[KCIndy]

[QUOTE=azxd;4371533]Those who think as you do should have a special box on your tax form (until repealed) that allows you to donate an additional amount to finance those serving life sentences, because of the bleeding heart, don't kill the killer, mentality.
QUOTE]


How would you suggest we fund reparations for those turn out to be innocent of the charges? Ones who are terminated by the state because crooked cops, egotistical prosecutors and apathetic juries might just - just - happen to put the wrong person behind bars?

I'm not a "bleeding heart" type at all, by the way. But the first time I actually began to dig into the numbers, I was horrified at the sheer number of people who had been put in prison under the flimsiest of evidence, and who had to fight tooth and nail against prosecutors and District Attorneys whose egos would not allow them to admit they were wrong even when confronted with unquestionable DNA evidence that exonerated the convicted individual.

It's beyond scary, and I hope it doesn't happen to anyone reading this.

[azxd]

Those who think as you do should have a special box on your tax form (until repealed) that allows you to donate an additional amount to finance those serving life sentences, because of the bleeding heart, don't kill the killer, mentality.


How would you suggest we fund reparations for those turn out to be innocent of the charges? Ones who are terminated by the state because crooked cops, egotistical prosecutors and apathetic juries might just - just - happen to put the wrong person behind bars?

I'm not a "bleeding heart" type at all, by the way. But the first time I actually began to dig into the numbers, I was horrified at the sheer number of people who had been put in prison under the flimsiest of evidence, and who had to fight tooth and nail against prosecutors and District Attorneys whose egos would not allow them to admit they were wrong even when confronted with unquestionable DNA evidence that exonerated the convicted individual.

It's beyond scary, and I hope it doesn't happen to anyone reading this.Allow the family to sue the jury members who developed the guilty verdict, allow the family members to sue to defense attorney, and allow the family members to sue to prosecuting attorney ... All lawsuit's at the personal level ... The idea proposed by Evangelical_Protestant is an absolute.

You make damn sure, or you do not convict.

[donnay]

Those who think as you do should have a special box on your tax form (until repealed) that allows you to donate an additional amount to finance those serving life sentences, because of the bleeding heart, don't kill the killer, mentality.

I'd rather we follow the Evangelical_Protestant idea.

Really? Dr. Paul does not support the death penalty either--but then again he doesn't support the income tax either.

[azxd]

Really? Dr. Paul does not support the death penalty either--but then again he doesn't support the income tax either.Keep reading the thread ... He once did, and might again.

[phill4paul]

One thing is for certain. POSTHUMOUS exoneration is a rather hollow victory to the one murdered by the state.

[azxd]

One thing is for certain. POSTHUMOUS exoneration is a rather hollow victory to the one murdered by the state.I'm heartbroken over such a word choice LOL
A jury made the decision, and the State issued their sentence, based on the verdict of the jury.

A sentence was/is carried out ;)

[phill4paul]

I'm heartbroken over such a word choice LOL
A jury made the decision, and the State issued their sentence, based on the verdict of the jury.

A sentence was/is carried out ;)

Juries make their decisions based on the evidence provided by the state. The state has been known to falsify and/or withhold evidence.
Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).
Falsifying or withholding evidence in a capital case is malice aforethought. Therefore, the state is culpable.

[azxd]

Juries make their decisions based on the evidence provided by the state. The state has been known to falsify and/or withhold evidence.
Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).
Falsifying or withholding evidence in a capital case is malice aforethought. Therefore, the state is culpable.Argue with yourself ;)

[donnay]

I'm heartbroken over such a word choice LOL
A jury made the decision, and the State issued their sentence, based on the verdict of the jury.

A sentence was/is carried out ;)


A corrupted system from stem to stern--corrupted prosecutors, District Attorney's to Judges.

DOJ Investigation Found FBI Lab Produced Unreliable Evidence - But Only Informed Prosecutors of Results (http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/doj-investigation-found-fbi-lab-produ)

FBI Evidence Screw-Ups Hidden in Hundreds of Cases (http://www.newser.com/story/144211/fbi-evidence-screw-ups-hidden-in-hundreds-of-cases.html)

[phill4paul]

Argue with yourself ;)

I'm heartbroken over such a word choice LOL

[phill4paul]

A corrupted system from stem to stern--corrupted prosecutors, District Attorney's to Judges.

DOJ Investigation Found FBI Lab Produced Unreliable Evidence - But Only Informed Prosecutors of Results (http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/doj-investigation-found-fbi-lab-produ)

FBI Evidence Screw-Ups Hidden in Hundreds of Cases (http://www.newser.com/story/144211/fbi-evidence-screw-ups-hidden-in-hundreds-of-cases.html)

SBI ana*lysts, in lock*step with police and pros*e*cu*tors, seek con*vic*tions — often at the expense of sci*en*tific truth.

http://www.forensicsguy.com/benchnotes/ncsbi-analysts-are-advocates-for-the-prosecution/

At the State Bureau of Investigation, most foren*sic sci*en*tists are cops. So are their bosses. Their bosses’ bosses are pros*e*cu*tors, the chain stop*ping at Attorney General Roy Cooper, the state’s top lawyer.

This arrange*ment often forces ana*lysts to become advo*cates, in lock*step with police and pros*e*cu*tors, shap*ing evi*dence needed to deliver a conviction....

The work of the SBI crime lab has been under fire since February, when Greg Taylor, an inno*cent man, was freed after judges learned an SBI serol*o*gist with*held cru*cial evi*dence that proved a stain on Taylor’s SUV wasn’t blood.

Problems at the lab run deeper than blood. State law puts sci*en*tists at the lab on the prosecution’s team, instead of assign*ing them as inde*pen*dent seek*ers of fact. Analysts some*times don’t run DNA or blood tests that might threaten pros*e*cu*tors’ the*o*ries. And they shield them*selves from scrutiny, fight*ing against turn*ing over records and for*bid*ding defense experts to observe their work.

[AgentOrange]

ah, yes...excuse me-in my hurry I neglected to ask the correct question. I was referring to your claim that I was wrong when I said "I'm pretty sure Charlie Manson is relatively harmless by now too". The fact that he has a fan club is irrelevant. I'm well aware of the fan club-and that he's been getting fan mail in prison for years.

I never claimed that at all, I think you are confusing me with another poster. I see no evidence that Charlie Manson is harmless, do you? You are aware that there have been atrocious murders done by 70+ year olds? Obviously parole board after parole board has looked at the evidence and decided that Charlie Manson is NOT harmless, therefor they denied him parole. Are you privy to information the parole board doesn't have, that makes you think Charlie Manson is now harmless?

[donnay]

I never claimed that at all, I think you are confusing me with another poster. I see no evidence that Charlie Manson is harmless, do you? You are aware that there have been atrocious murders done by 70+ year olds? Obviously parole board after parole board has looked at the evidence and decided that Charlie Manson is NOT harmless, therefor they denied him parole. Are you privy to information the parole board doesn't have, that makes you think Charlie Manson is now harmless?


Charlie Manson is locked up and kept under a watchful eye. It is the appearance the system looks like works--i.e.; up for parole. The only reason it makes news is to keep the constant fear narrative alive and well. He will never be paroled.

[csu1987]

When we were kids at age 9-10(not 6), we played over at the school all day til 8-9pm in the summer. We didn't live too far from their. An hour in a sketchy(?) park during the day may not be a smart idea but it's not take your kids away material. Rather it should be a "use your head!" scolding from someone at the most. Or if continued a lot then perhaps I could see some sort of fine if it's pretty late.(town curfews)

[specsaregood]

When we were kids at age 9-10(not 6), we played over at the school all day til 8-9pm in the summer. We didn't live too far from their. An hour in a sketchy(?) park during the day may not be a smart idea but it's not take your kids away material. Rather it should be a "use your head!" scolding from someone at the most. Or if continued a lot then perhaps I could see some sort of fine if it's pretty late.(town curfews)

I figure that what happened here is that the adults that saw the kids got upset that they were suddenly given this burden of watching over these stranger's kids -- even though they took the supposed "burden" upon themselves. They got mad about that and that is why they reported it all and the cops and cps all got invoved.

[csu1987]

I figure that what happened here is that the adults that saw the kids got upset that they were suddenly given this burden of watching over these stranger's kids -- even though they took the supposed "burden" upon themselves. They got mad about that and that is why they reported it all and the cops and cps all got invoved.

When what they should have done is tell the man to pull his head out of his ass instead of calling the police. I probably would have just told the guy that I almost called the police and they might have brought cps. Then the guy would probably think a little clearer, next time.

[donnay]

I figure that what happened here is that the adults that saw the kids got upset that they were suddenly given this burden of watching over these stranger's kids -- even though they took the supposed "burden" upon themselves. They got mad about that and that is why they reported it all and the cops and cps all got invoved.

I am of the mind what goes around comes around. To be spiteful like that serves no purpose and destroys other lives in the process.

[specsaregood]

I am of the mind what goes around comes around. To be spiteful like that serves no purpose and destroys other lives in the process.

Well I sure hope so. But you know what I'm saying, there are plenty of those people around.

[donnay]

Well I sure hope so. But you know what I'm saying, there are plenty of those people around.

Yes, unfortunately, there are plenty of those people around. :(