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FrankRep
04-14-2012, 10:02 PM
http://thenewamerican.com/images/stories2012/09aApril/allen_west_govt.001.jpg



Representative Allen West claims that there are about 80 Communists in Congress, most of whom are members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.


Rep. Allen West Says There Are Communists in Congress; Is He Right? (http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/congress/11516-rep-allen-west-says-there-are-communists-in-congress-is-he-right)


Joe Wolverton, II | The New American (http://thenewamerican.com/)
14 April 2012


At a town hall meeting in Palm City, Florida, on April 10, Tea Party favorite Representative Allen West (http://west.house.gov/) (R-Fla.) informed the audience (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqWyzzn4-xI&feature=player_embedded) that there are Communists in Congress.

In response to the question “What percentage of the American legislature do you think are card carrying Marxists, Internationalists, or Socialists?” West claimed that there are: “78 to 81 members of the Democrat Party that are members of the Communist party.”

When asked if they hide it, West responded, “No, they actually don’t hide it, it’s called the Congressional Progressive Caucus.”

Later, however, after the remarks were mentioned in an article in the Palm Beach Post (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/allen-west-hears-cheers-jeers-at-town-hall-2295766.html?cxtype=rss_news), West’s campaign manager, Tim Edson, told a reporter for The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/11/stupid-reporter-took-communist-allegation-out-of-context-says-allen-wests-campaign/) that West “was making a jab at the Congressional Progressive Caucus, and not making an outlandish, McCarthyesque allegation.”

Reporting on a series of campaign stops in Martin County, Florida, the Palm Beach Post made only passing mention of West’s allegations of active Communists on Capitol Hill.

Regardless of the jeers directed at Representative West and the description of his statement as a “Red Scare,” there is more than a scintilla of suspicion that his comments may be correct. Let’s break down the conservative congressman’s remarks and review evidence of their accuracy.

First, are there any members of Congress who openly align themselves with the organized Communist Party?

Witness this story printed on the US Daily Review (http://usdailyreview.com/are-there-communists-in-the-us-house-of-representatives) website:



Kevin Price, Host of the Price of Business and Publisher of the US Daily Review actually covered an event of the Communist Party USA back in the 1980s and stated “there were actually several members of Congress at the event. A couple gave speeches and displayed their membership cards with pride. So hearing that there are members of the party in the Congress today doesn’t surprise me, but the number quoted by West is much more than any could expect.”


Next, is the notion that there may be Senators and Representatives who adhere to and work to achieve the implementation of the philosophy and policy aims of the Communist Party without having their names listed on any official roster?

In his answer to the question regarding the existence of Marxists and Socialists in the legislative branch of the federal government, Representative West identified the Congressional Progressive Caucus as a cell of Communists in Congress.

An important step in the analysis of West’s statement is to investigate this group.

According to their website (http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/):



The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) consists of one United States Senator and seventy five members of the United States House of Representatives, and is the largest caucus within the House Democratic Caucus. Established in 1991, the CPC reflects the diversity and strength of the American people and seeks to give voice to the needs and aspirations of all Americans and to build a more just and humane society.


And:



Our Caucus members promote a strong, progressive agenda, what we call “The Progressive Promise--Fairness for All”. The Progressive Promise is rooted in four core principles that embody national priorities and are consistent with the values, needs and aspirations of all the American people, not just the powerful and the privileged. They reflect a fundamental belief in government of the people, by the people, and for the people.




A more thorough explanation of the Progressive Promise is also included (http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=63&sectiontree=2,63) on the website. A few highlights from this agenda is included for the sake of comparison:



The Congressional Progressive Caucus believes in government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Our fairness plan is rooted in our core principles. It also embodies national priorities that are consistent with the values, needs, and hopes of all our people, not just the powerful and the privileged. We pledge our unwavering commitment to these legislative priorities and we will not rest until they become law.




"1. Fighting for Economic Justice and Security in the U.S. and Global Economies"

Included under this section is the “right to universal access to affordable, high quality healthcare for all.” The source for this “right” is not disclosed in the CPC declaration, nor does it set forth a mechanism for funding such an expensive scheme.

Also included in this section is the right to “live above the poverty line ... by raising and indexing the minimum wage.” Again, neither the source of this right nor the precise location of Constitutional authority to further it are left unidentified.

"2. Protecting and Preserving Civil Rights and Civil Liberties"

Under this section is included a commitment to “eliminating all forms of discrimination based upon color, race, religion, gender, creed, disability, or sexual orientation.” Discrimination in all its forms is despicable and not consistent with republican values. However, imposing tolerance from the top down via federal laws and intrusions is also incompatible with fundamental principles of liberty and self-government.

"3. Promoting Global Peace and Security"

Under this heading the CPC promotes “our nation’s constructive engagement in the United Nations and other multilateral organizations.” As readers of this publication will be well-aware, the surrender of American sovereignty to extraconstitutional regional and global governments is detrimental to freedom and will result ultimately in universal slavery under a one-world authority that is not bound by the rule of law.

"4. Advancing Environmental Protection & Energy Independence"

As part of this goal, the CPC lists a mish-mash of proposals to clean the environment, all of which require alterations of the federal tax to redistribute money from those who are not actively working to achieve these goals to those who would be anxiously engaged in promoting the end to global warming and other green boondoggles.

Now, in fairness to the CPC, there are many noble and worthwhile entries on their list of goals, including the “sunset of expiring provisions of the Patriot Act and bring remaining provisions into line with the U. S. Constitution;” protecting “the personal privacy of all Americans from unbridled police powers and unchecked government intrusion"; and bringing American troops “home from Iraq as soon as possible.” These are aspirations that most Constitutionalists would find agreeable and not at all “Communist.”

However, a more relevant question in light of Representative West’s association of the Congressional Progressive Caucus with the Communist Party is whether the CPC’s goals dovetail in any way with those of the Communist Party.

A useful tool in answering this question would be a comparison of those pronouncements listed above and a similar mission statement published by the Communist Party.

Under the tab “What does the Communist Party Stand For?” the following answer is given on the Communist Party USA’s website (http://www.cpusa.org/faq/):



The Communist Party stands for the interests of the American working class and the American people. It stands for our interests in both the present and the future. Solidarity with workers of other countries is also part of our work. We work in coalition with the labor movement, the peace movement, the student movement, organizations fighting for equality and social justice, the environmental movement, immigrants rights groups and the health care for all campaign.

But to win a better life for working families, we believe that we must go further. We believe that the American people can replace capitalism with a system that puts people before profit - socialism.

We are rooted in our country's revolutionary history and its struggles for democracy. We call for "Bill of Rights" socialism, guaranteeing full individual freedoms.

Until we win enough support to change the system, communists call for radical reforms under capitalism. We call for nationalization of the banks, railroads, and industries like steel and auto. Everyone who wants to work should be guaranteed a job or get unemployment payments until she/he can find a job. We say put the unemployed to work at union wages on massive public works programs to rebuild our cities, provide affordable housing for the homeless, build mass transit, and clean up the environment!

Our outlook is based on the social science of Marxism-Leninism. We study history, politics and economics in order to change the world.


When viewed side-by-side (which the reader is encouraged to do), it becomes evident that in several key aspects (and indeed often using identical language) the Congressional Progressive Caucus and the Communist Party are working toward the same end and promoting the similar means to achieve them. Granted, to my knowledge, none of the members of the CPC admit to being “card carrying Communists,” but such an explicit declaration is unnecessary. Whether one attends meetings or shouts his Marxism from the rooftops is immaterial to the more relevant question of whether one aligns himself with an organization (no matter the name) that openly works within the chambers of the people’s representatives to replace the republican form of government guaranteed by our Constitution and wisely established by our Founding Fathers with one whose principles are inarguably inimical to that system, whether the followers call it Progressive, Communist, Socialist, or any other name.


SOURCE:
http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/congress/11516-rep-allen-west-says-there-are-communists-in-congress-is-he-right

Sola_Fide
04-14-2012, 10:05 PM
Sure he's right, but why does he support illegal wars and a police state? Seems pretty communistic to me.

ronpaulfollower999
04-14-2012, 10:09 PM
I might go to a Tea Party Rally where he is speaking today. Could be interesting. ;)

Sola_Fide
04-14-2012, 10:12 PM
I might go to a Tea Party Rally where he is speaking today. Could be interesting. ;)

My suggestion is: be nice and don't mention Ron Pauls name directly. My best conversions to liberty have happened when I laid out the case for liberty and they came to Ron Paul later on through their own study.

Anti Federalist
04-14-2012, 10:52 PM
Yeah I reckon there are plenty of communists in Congress.

Just like there are plenty of fascists.

What there are not a whole lot of, are freedom loving strict constitutionalists.

Danke
04-14-2012, 10:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoATWN68IZA

tttppp
04-14-2012, 11:15 PM
He's right, but he forgot to mention there's a lot of communist republicans too.

emazur
04-14-2012, 11:32 PM
He's right, but he forgot to mention there's a lot of communist republicans too.

He 'forgot' to mention it because he's one of them

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/532-how-to-avoid-voting-for-a-globalist-puppet

Self-styled liberty candidates like Allen West of Florida, winning with Tea Party support, have been exposed because of their backing of the NDAA. Shockingly, West not only voted for the NDAA, but helped to COMPOSE the bill!

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/159813-tea-party-favorite-breaks-with-gop-on-healthcare-repeal

A Tea Party favorite in the House is turning against the Republican leadership’s strategy on healthcare.

Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), who has emerged as an outspoken conservative voice among GOP freshmen, cast a surprising vote last week against a bill to scrap part of the 2010 healthcare overhaul. The legislation would repeal $100 million in funding for the construction of school-based health centers. West was one of just four Republicans to vote against the measure, which passed 235-191.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/03/24/allen-west-tea-party-statist/

West voted in February three times in the affirmative on H.R. 514 to extend the PATRIOT Act. This is the nefarious legislation hurriedly passed soon after 9/11 with no debate in the House and only minimal debate in the Senate that Judge Napolitano called “the most abominable, unconstitutional governmental assaults on personal freedom since the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798″ť and “the most unpatriotic of the things that the Bush administration and this Congress could have visited upon us.”ť Thank you Mr. West.

mrsat_98
04-15-2012, 04:38 AM
If one takes a real good look at communism one will find out he is one. J edgar Hoover wrote several books that explained what we live in today. Masters of Deciet is just one of them.

thoughtomator
04-15-2012, 05:05 AM
West is one of a crop of "Tea Party" fakers that jumped on the liberty bandwagon, never either getting it nor wanting to get it. He's not the only one, not by a longshot, so keep your eye out for these people in primaries and other GOP-related activities.

WilliamC
04-15-2012, 05:08 AM
Yeah I reckon there are plenty of communists in Congress.

Just like there are plenty of fascists.

What there are not a whole lot of, are freedom loving strict constitutionalists.

What he said.

The communists and fascists have been vying for control for a long time, and are the real ideologies behind current American-style Democrats and Republicans since the '50's.

That's why today the only choice most of our politicians offer us is between a handbasket and a bucket, either one we chose their destination in mind is hell.

Danke
04-15-2012, 05:14 AM
What he said.

The communists and fascists have been vying for control for a long time, and are the real ideologies behind current American-style Democrats and Republicans since the '50's.

That's why today the only choice most of our politicians offer us is between a handbasket and a bucket, either one we chose their destination in mind is hell.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI8GEidaMMI

farreri
04-15-2012, 05:18 PM
Why doesn't Rep. Allen West (R) ever complain about the Fascists in Congress?

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 05:32 PM
Why doesn't Rep. Allen West (R) ever complain about the Fascists in Congress?
The so called "Fascists" you're talking about are most likely the Trotskyite Neo-Conservatives that follow the philosophy of Bill Kristol and others that are obsessed with Perpetual war and flirt with left-wing politics.

Am I right? Guess what. Neocons are crypto-communists and not Fascist like Benito Mussolini.

farreri
04-15-2012, 05:45 PM
The so called "Fascists" you're talking about are most likely the Trotskyite Neo-Conservatives that follow the philosophy of Bill Kristol and others that are obsessed with Perpetual war and flirt with left-wing politics.

Am I right? Guess what. Neocons are crypto-communists and not Fascist like Benito Mussolini.
I always thought of Fascists as extreme right-wing socialists and Communists as extreme left-wing socialists.

How do you define a "fascist"?

oyarde
04-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Those numbers are way too low for Congressional Commies , for instance , after reviewing Dem voting records on social spending bills recently, I can only see ONE Dem that is consistently not commie , the guy from GA , maybe Barrow ?

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 05:51 PM
I always thought of Fascists as extreme right-wing socialists and Communists as extreme left-wing socialists.

How do you define a "fascist"?

The "extreme right-wing" are Libertarians and Anarchists. Your political scale is screwed up.

http://americanbuilt.us/images/politics/conservative-spectrum.jpg


Please watch this video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE

farreri
04-15-2012, 05:54 PM
Those numbers are way too low for Congressional Commies , for instance , after reviewing Dem voting records on social spending bills recently, I can only see ONE Dem that is consistently not commie , the guy from GA , maybe Barrow ?
How's everyone differentiating between socialists with communists?

farreri
04-15-2012, 05:58 PM
The "extreme right-wing" are Libertarians and Anarchists. Your political scale is screwed up.

So if Communists are thought of as extreme left, but Fascists are not thought of as extreme right, then what are Fascists?

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 05:58 PM
How's everyone differentiating socialists with communists?
The goal of Socialism is Communism, but it's a carrot on the stick and will never happen -- it's a trick.

farreri
04-15-2012, 05:59 PM
The goal of Socialism is Communism, but it's a carrot on the stick and will never happen -- it's a trick.
So most of Europe are "secretly" striving to Communism?

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:01 PM
So if Communists are thought of as extreme left, but Fascists are not thought of as extreme right, then what are Fascists?
Socialism and Fascism are both left-wing and Big Government. There's not much difference.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:02 PM
How's everyone differentiating between socialists with communists? With the current Dems in Congress , I see little difference , there is nothing they intend to leave privatized... and no wealth they wish to leave you . At the end of your twelve hour shift in your govt run factory , you can return to your govt , one bedroom apt and have your nightly tv dinner , comrade.

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:02 PM
So most of Europe are "secretly" striving to Communism?

DUDE!!

"The goal of socialism is communism."
- Vladimir Lenin

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:03 PM
So most of Europe are "secretly" striving to Communism? Closer than most realize .

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:08 PM
A new National Socialist lobbyist joined the lovelies in DC last week , from the American Nazi party. I am not making that up.

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:09 PM
Socialism and Fascism are both left-wing and Big Government. There's not much difference.
So school taught us wrong all those years, saying Fascism was extreme right wing?

I'm having a hard time believing all those Fascist sympathizers (Nazis, skinheads, Klan, etc) would consider themselves "left wing."

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:13 PM
So school taught us wrong all those years, saying Fascism was extreme right wing?

I'm having a hard time believing all those Fascist sympathizers (Nazis, skinheads, Klan, etc) would consider themselves "left wing."

Yes, the Government-run education you received has lied to you.

Again, the "extreme right wing" are Libertarians and Anarchists.

Nazis are Socialists. dude.

http://americanbuilt.us/images/politics/conservative-spectrum.jpg

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:15 PM
With the current Dems in Congress , I see little difference , there is nothing they intend to leave privatized... and no wealth they wish to leave you . At the end of your twelve hour shift in your govt run factory , you can return to your govt , one bedroom apt and have your nightly tv dinner , comrade.
Besides the U.S. Post Office, authorized in the Constitution, btw, what other "govt run factories" does the U.S. operate?

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:16 PM
DUDE!!

"The goal of socialism is communism."
- Vladimir Lenin
When's the last time a socialist country went communist?

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:18 PM
When's the last time a socialist country went communist?

None. Let me repeat myself.


The goal of Socialism is Communism, but it's a carrot on the stick and will never happen -- it's a trick.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Besides the U.S. Post Office, authorized in the Constitution, btw, what other "govt run factories" does the U.S. operate? They will have them all if unchecked , right now , through taxation and costs to meet regulation, they recieve 36 cents of every dollar from business , then movealong to health care etc, remember , they will never stop

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Yes, the Government-run education you received has lied to you.

Again, the "extreme right wing" are Libertarians and Anarchists.

Nazis are Socialists. dude.
Well, I never said they weren't. That's why I refereed to them are right-wing socialists.

I think we are getting off track with the semantics of who's left or right. Do you think most Republicans in Congress lean more fascists than libertarian? That's pretty much my point.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:21 PM
When's the last time a socialist country went communist? They should fail economically before they reach that.

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:22 PM
None. Let me repeat myself.
So like Norway, Sweden, and Finland, they are all Communist countries?

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:23 PM
Well, I never said they weren't. That's why I refereed to them are right-wing socialists.

I think we are getting off track with the semantics of who's left or right. Do you think most Republicans in Congress lean more fascists than libertarian? That's pretty much my point.
Let me repeat myself again.


The so called "Fascists" you're talking about are most likely the Trotskyite Neo-Conservatives that follow the philosophy of Bill Kristol and others that are obsessed with Perpetual war and flirt with left-wing politics.

Am I right? Guess what. Neocons are crypto-communists and not Fascist like Benito Mussolini.

Brian4Liberty
04-15-2012, 06:24 PM
It might be most accurate to say that the majority of our Congress and media are "global corporatist socialists".

Edit: or "global corporatist socialist authoritarians".

BucksforPaul
04-15-2012, 06:24 PM
So if Communists are thought of as extreme left, but Fascists are not thought of as extreme right, then what are Fascists?

Fascists are Communists on steroids. One definition of fascism is big government colluding with big businesses to maximize profits.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:26 PM
Well, I never said they weren't. That's why I refereed to them are right-wing socialists.

I think we are getting off track with the semantics of who's left or right. Do you think most Republicans in Congress lean more fascists than libertarian? That's pretty much my point. Few lean Libertarian , but economically the bleeding is slower , they will take some liberties , wage some wars , the Dems will do same and lots of nice extras that include stealing you blind , raising taxes , increasing fees , regulations , taking over health care , theenviroment , energy , the list is endless from the evil vampires.

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:27 PM
So like Norway, Sweden, and Finland, they are all Communist countries?

Please read the Communist Manifesto. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Communist Manifesto PDF
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

http://spreadsong-book-covers.s3.amazonaws.com/book_id3853_size2.jpg

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:27 PM
They will have them all if unchecked , right now , through taxation and costs to meet regulation, they recieve 36 cents of every dollar from business , then movealong to health care etc, remember , they will never stop
I'm not disagreeing we are heading in more of that direction, but I think you guys are sounding the communism alarm a little bit more than it actually is, if you get my drift.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:27 PM
It might be most accurate to say that the majority of our Congress and media are "global corporatist socialists".

Edit: or "global corporatist socialist authoritarians". Interesting way to look at it ..

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:28 PM
I'm not disagreeing we are heading in more of that direction, but I think you guys are sounding the communism alarm a little bit more than it actually is, if you get my drift. I wish I had started sounding it louder over twenty years ago ...

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:30 PM
Please read the Communist Manifesto. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Communist Manifesto PDF
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

http://spreadsong-book-covers.s3.amazonaws.com/book_id3853_size2.jpg
I just asked you a simple yes/no question. Can you give me a yes or no to my question? If you can't, I'm kinda think you have no clue what you're talking about. No offense.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:32 PM
If you do read the manifesto , it will help you spot where they are always leading to...

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:35 PM
And to think , old hard drinking , lying ass McCarthy was worried about , merely , 57 :)

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:36 PM
I wish I had started sounding it louder over twenty years ago ...
My point is don't try to be seen as crying wolf too much, as in shouting "communism is just around the corner" when it's still miles and miles away (figuratively speaking), or those you are trying to warn will be turned off and then be more vulnerable to being snookered by the govt going in the direction you warned of.

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:37 PM
If you do read the manifesto , it will help you spot where they are always leading to...
I've read the Communist Manifesto and one I find disturbing that is the Progressive/Democrat philosophy of equality/fairness/taxes/free government education/redistribution of wealth is straight out of the Communist Manifesto.

Progressives are either stupid about the source of their beliefs or they're lying about it.

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:37 PM
If you do read the manifesto , it will help you spot where they are always leading to...
So what's the last socialist country that went full blown communist?

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:39 PM
So what's the last socialist country that went full blown communist?

Are you being dense of purpose?


The goal of Socialism is Communism, but it's a carrot on the stick and will never happen -- it's a trick.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:41 PM
My point is don't try to be seen as crying wolf too much, as in shouting "communism is just around the corner" when it's still miles and miles away (figuratively speaking), or those you are trying to warn will be turned off and then be more vulnerable to being snookered by the govt going in the direction you warned of. I understand what you are trying to say . Anyway , I am old and tired , and really , believe we are fast approaching the point of no return to salvage the US economy , I base my opinion , only on the math , from the CBO , unfunded liabilities , debt , yearly debt increas and no serious spending cuts in sight ...

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:41 PM
Are you being dense of purpose?
You two are warning of socialism, because it "leads" to communism, but when I ask the question below, what should be an easy question for communist watchers, you can't give me one example. Why is that?

"So what's the last socialist country that went full blown communist?"

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:43 PM
So what's the last socialist country that went full blown communist? I believe , the odds of that are slim , they should always fail , go bankrupt and start over , by paying for everything up front ...

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:48 PM
I understand what you are trying to say . Anyway , I am old and tired , and really , believe we are fast approaching the point of no return to salvage the US economy , I base my opinion , only on the math , from the CBO , unfunded liabilities , debt , yearly debt increas and no serious spending cuts in sight ...
Well I too fear we are getting too socialist, especially because our form is just benefiting the rich (ie fascism), but I don't really think the U.S. is going to become like the Cuba, N. Korea, or the former USSR.

Now you can call it a new breed of communism/fascism where it's more of a covert way of doing it by getting their tentacles so deeply entrenched in our personal and economic lives, like the examples you mention, but I really doubt the U.S. will ever become an overtly communist country as one thinks of.

tttppp
04-15-2012, 06:48 PM
You two are warning of socialism, because it "leads" to communism, but when I ask the question below, what should be an easy question for communist watchers, you can't give me one example. Why is that?

"So what's the last socialist country that went full blown communist?"

Its not desirable to go full communist. Its always important to have the illusion of capitalism. If people figure out they have no rights, everything will collapse.

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:49 PM
You two are warning of socialism, because it "leads" to communism, but when I ask the question below, what should be an easy question for communist watchers, you can't give me one example. Why is that?

"So what's the last socialist country that went full blown communist?"

I'm warning of Socialism. Socialism promises a "Utopia". I call that "Utopia" a lie. If you read the Communists Manifesto, you will know this "Utopia" I'm talking about is called "Communism." Socialist and Communists BOTH practice Socialism. "Communism" is the pipe dream.

You're not ever going to understand this concept are you?

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:49 PM
Its not desirable to go full communist. Its always important to have the illusion of capitalism. If people figure out they have no rights, everything will collapse.
Agreed.

oyarde
04-15-2012, 06:51 PM
When you have collapse , you will end up with some form of a Republicor a dictator , I imagine ..

farreri
04-15-2012, 06:51 PM
I'm warning of Socialism. Socialism promises a "Utopia". I call that "Utopia" a lie. If you read the Communists Manifesto, you will know this "Utopia" I'm talking about is called "Communism." Socialist and Communists BOTH practice Socialism. "Communism" is the pipe dream.

You're not ever going to understand this concept are you?
I know all that, but you seem to be saying that if you have an ounce of socialism, that makes you a communist.

FrankRep
04-15-2012, 06:55 PM
I know all that, but you seem to be saying that if you have an ounce of socialism, that makes you a communist.
No, I'm saying that Socialists and Communists Both practice Socialism. Communists, however, are under the delusion that perfect equality can exist.

tttppp
04-15-2012, 06:55 PM
I know all that, but you seem to be saying that if you have an ounce of socialism, that makes you a communist.

I would say we have more of an ounce of socialism. We have just enough capitalism to give the illusion of free markets, no more.

Feeding the Abscess
04-15-2012, 07:45 PM
The so called "Fascists" you're talking about are most likely the Trotskyite Neo-Conservatives that follow the philosophy of Bill Kristol and others that are obsessed with Perpetual war and flirt with left-wing politics.

Am I right? Guess what. Neocons are crypto-communists and not Fascist like Benito Mussolini.

AKA Allen West.

AGRP
04-15-2012, 07:55 PM
Yay. Seven pages of bickering over a washed up neocon.

Travlyr
04-15-2012, 08:57 PM
All of them except for Dr. Know are practicing communists.

ARE Americans practicing Communism? (http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html)


Read the 10 Planks of The Communist Manifesto to discover the truth and learn how to know your enemy...

Karl Marx describes in his communist manifesto, the ten steps necessary to destroy a free enterprise system and replace it with a system of omnipotent government power, so as to effect a communist socialist state. Those ten steps are known as the Ten Planks of The Communist Manifesto… The following brief presents the original ten planks within the Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx in 1848, along with the American adopted counterpart for each of the planks. From comparison it's clear MOST Americans have by myths, fraud and deception under the color of law by their own politicians in both the Republican and Democratic and parties, been transformed into Communists.

Another thing to remember, Karl Marx in creating the Communist Manifesto designed these planks AS A TEST to determine whether a society has become communist or not. If they are all in effect and in force, then the people ARE practicing communists.


Read the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto at the link and decide for yourself.

specsaregood
04-15-2012, 09:03 PM
Well I too fear we are getting too socialist, especially because our form is just benefiting the rich (ie fascism), but I don't really think the U.S. is going to become like the Cuba, N. Korea, or the former USSR.


Please explain the differences between the US and Cuba. Thanks in advance.

bolil
04-15-2012, 09:14 PM
Mighty thoughtful of the fascist to warn us bout the commies.

libertarian4321
04-16-2012, 02:23 AM
Allan West is an authoritarian right-wing militarist.

Not exactly the same as a communist, but certainly no better.

csu1987
04-16-2012, 04:21 AM
Allan West is an authoritarian right-wing militarist.

Not exactly the same as a communist, but certainly no better.

And the others aren't authoritarian left-wing militarists?

awake
04-16-2012, 05:19 AM
Communists don't go by that name anymore.

Simple
04-16-2012, 05:33 AM
Communists don't go by that name anymore.

That is true. They didn't teach me Communism in school, they taught us Marxism and in my academic focus, they called Marxism science too :eek:

csu1987
04-16-2012, 05:38 AM
"Interesting. I have been reading on this. McCarthy went after communists or people that had been affiliated with communism, and the majority of these people were Jewish, many of them worked in Hollywood, and were big fans of Trotsky; they were known as "Trotsky's Kids". The attacks McCarthy had made ruined many lives and careers, but the biggest threat was that the Zionist/Soviet/Israel connection would be exposed and McCarthy had to be taken down. It was the children of those who had been investigated by McCarthy that went to Berkley to test their rights of "Freedom of Speech". These kids were very upset at how their parents, and their parent's friends, had been treated in the McCarthy witch hunts. These kids at first stood up for Civil Rights, and were gaining national attention. They were doing a good job. Then they protested the war. Then they started taking drugs and let their hair grow out and had unlimited sex with shiksas, much to the horror and dismay of their parents. The Israelis won the 6 Day war; winning our government's support and backing. The Trotsky Zionists told their kids to quit the anti-war nonsense(Israel needs America to be pro-war, not anti-war), to shave their beards and finish school and go to work on Wall Street. Some did, others became a part of the "Yippie" movement, which was designed to make the anti-war movement look violent and retarded. They succeeded. Many of the reformed hippies who are "Trotsky's Grandkids" are now neocons. They are in control."-YumYum

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?258944-Putin-Unsanctioned-protesters-can-expect-police-brutality/page3


Joe McCrarthy was right all along there were/are communists in the goverment and OBAMA is a communist and hollywood's full of communists. Why else did they make that junk movie called REDS?

McCarthy predicted all of this. In light of what's unfolding before our very eyes (a communistic world government)...it may be time to clear Joe McCarthy's name.

McCarthy's ultimate target wasn't just the communists, but the powers above them that covered up and promoted their deeds.

Anyone who believes that McCarthy was a reckless "witch-hunter" out to read this well researched book.
http://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/140008105X

Lishy
04-16-2012, 06:06 AM
Why are we mixing up communism with a corporatist fascism? As a former communist, let me say that they are NOT communists because they barely even acknowledge the ideology! Yo can be a welfare state without it being communism.

jmdrake
04-16-2012, 08:09 AM
Sure he's right, but why does he support illegal wars and a police state? Seems pretty communistic to me.

Yep. Allen West didn't answer the question.

In response to the question “What percentage of the American legislature do you think are card carrying Marxists, Internationalists, or Socialists?” West claimed that there are: “78 to 81 members of the Democrat Party that are members of the Communist party.”

He qualifies as an "internationalist" himself.

Pericles
04-16-2012, 02:46 PM
Yeah I reckon there are plenty of communists in Congress.

Just like there are plenty of fascists.

What there are not a whole lot of, are freedom loving strict constitutionalists.

What he said ^^^^^

anaconda
04-16-2012, 03:15 PM
There's about 532 of them in Congress, and Allen is one of them.

Anti Federalist
04-16-2012, 06:10 PM
Lot's of confusion floating around.

Let's start here: both fascism and communism are economic systems. Both rely on heavy authoritarian control over business and capital. In communism all means of production are owned outright by the state. In socialism or fascism, the means of production are still held, nominally, in private hands, but with heavy control, oversight and taxation, in addition to outright orders to produce what the state wants, usually war materials.

Fascism can be distinguished from all of the above in that it also promotes national "greatness" or racial "purity" as a means of community and populist agitating. In addition, fascism also requires or brings about as a by product, a heavily authoritarian social order.

If there is any one system that most closely resembles what we have right now, it is fascism.

But it's a new, weird, form of it.

Outrageous behavior is tolerated as "allowing rebellion" but always within certain conformist guidelines. Thus, 14 year olds with spikes in their face and tattoos, that look like every other bunch of slack jawed teenagers across the country.

But any rebellion outside the allowed norms, whether real or perceived, is dealt with harshly.

I'm pretty sure that the mask will come off one day, not too long from now, and even this "permitted" rebellion will be dealt with harshly, along with every body else not fully enmeshed in the system.

tttppp
04-16-2012, 06:31 PM
Why are we mixing up communism with a corporatist fascism? As a former communist, let me say that they are NOT communists because they barely even acknowledge the ideology! Yo can be a welfare state without it being communism.

Whatever. Our system is getting to the point that you can't do business unless you do it exactly how the government would do it. Whatever you want to call our system, its largely a government run system, not a free market. You can call it fascism, communism, socialism, I don't care. Point is its just a government solution, with just enough of a free market to have the illusion of capitalism.

Simple
04-16-2012, 06:37 PM
Yep. Allen West didn't answer the question.

In response to the question “What percentage of the American legislature do you think are card carrying Marxists, Internationalists, or Socialists?” West claimed that there are: “78 to 81 members of the Democrat Party that are members of the Communist party.”

He qualifies as an "internationalist" himself.

that's why he is pointing a finger at the progressives.

csu1987
04-17-2012, 12:03 AM
... fascism also requires or brings about as a by product, a heavily authoritarian social order.


Pushing marxism or socialism in the above manner makes it marxo-fascism.