MI-Police chief arrests and "whacks" with baton 8 year old autistic boy for leaving school

[Anti Federalist]

Chief left bruise, bump on 8-year-old boy who left Jonesville elementary school playground, mom says

Published: Friday, April 06, 2012, 5:00 PM Updated: Friday, April 06, 2012, 5:20 PM

http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2012/04/chief_left_bruise_bump_on_8-ye.html

JONESVILLE, MI -- Kristen Kolodie imagines if she treated her 8-year-old autistic son the way she said the Jonesville police chief did, the consequence might be serious.

"You would arrest me for child abuse," she said she told the chief last week.

She talked to Chief Brian Corbett after she said he “whacked” her son, Eli, with a baton on the ankle and the shin on March 27 as Eli was sitting in the back of a police car. The boy had left school grounds during the school day and was yelling, screaming and kicking, she said.

To return him to class at Emily B. Williams Elementary School on Adrian Street, Eli, then calmer, was handcuffed, she said Thursday from a Hillsdale music store and coffee shop.

Kolodie and her husband, Mike, were meeting with other Hillsdale County parents of children with autism or special needs.

They want to prevent an event like this from happening in the future. They want changes. They want to raise awareness.

“Let’s make it better,” Kolodie, 33, of Reading Township said.

Kolodie complained to the village about the treatment of her son, and Corbett has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the completion of an investigation, according to a Tuesday statement from the village manager.

A Michigan State Police sergeant is investigating, according to the statement. Efforts to reach the trooper were not successful.

When reached by phone Thursday, Corbett said he could not give his own account of what occurred because of “legal advice.”

“I would dispute a lot of things,” he said when asked if he would contest statements made about him hitting Eli. He then declined further comment and would not answer a question about whether he had a lawyer.

Kolodie said her son walked away from the playground, which is not fully fenced, while at recess with five to seven other students and two school staff members. He is in a classroom of emotionally impaired students and no other classes were at recess, Kolodie said.

An aide and his teacher went after him. When he left school property, crossing the road to a golf course, the teacher or aide called 911, Kolodie said.

Eli was agitated and had a stick, she said. He was using it defensively, she said. Kolodie was not there but talked to the chief and school officials.

He had returned to school property. One police officer went to each side of him and the teacher or aide grabbed his belt loop and put him in the police car, Kolodie said.

Eli would not calm down. "He's scared to death," Kolodie said.

The chief then opened the car door and swatted the boy on the ankle, Kolodie said. The behavior continued and the chief hit Eli again, this time on the shin, Kolodie said.

Her son was not badly injured, but he had a bruise and bump on his shin, she said.

Up to the point he was in the police car, Kolodie said she did not take real issue with the way the situation was handled. “They had every right to restrain him,” she said. “They had to get my son in a safe spot.”

She does not understand why, once the boy was safely in a vehicle designed to keep adults contained, the officer had to take action with his baton.

Eli was “abused,” she said.

“His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this,” said Mary Wallace, who has a 12-year-old autistic son who attends a Hillsdale school. She went to the Thursday meeting.

Kolodie said Corbett should be disciplined, educated and trained. He was not told Eli was autistic, she said.

Autism is a developmental disorder affecting the brain's normal development of social and communication skills.

Kolodie wants people to understand what Eli, other children with this or similar disorders and their parents undergo and handle, and how the disorder affects people.

"You would not discipline a child in a wheelchair for not being able to walk," she said.

[mrsat_98]

http://contactus.jonesville.org/?A=Chief+Corbett&B=policechief sound off to the chief.

[BlackTerrel]

Wow this is horrific. Just posted to facebook.

Thanks for keeping these front of mind anti-fed.

[Vanilluxe]

This is insulting, I'm autistic!

[Kluge]

Damn. I left school grounds all the time when I was in elementary school and it was totally unauthorized--never in a million years would that merit being hit by a cop with a baton. That would have seriously traumatized me, and I'm not autistic.

You know what I'd do as a parent? I'd go beat the shit out of the cop who did it. Might not be the right or best thing to do, but I probably would.

[Anti Federalist]

4 replies.

4746 views?

WTF?

[dillo]

sickening

[TheTexan]

8-year-old boy ... was handcuffed

That's all I needed to read.

Plus the fact he is autistic. Plus the fact he was beaten with a baton.

Protect and serve my ass

[youngbuck]

If I had an 8-yo autistic child and ANYBODY hit them with a baton, well, it's not safe to say what I'd do.

[NewRightLibertarian]

That's all I needed to read.

Plus the fact he is autistic. Plus the fact he was beaten with a baton.

Protect and serve my ass

Handcuffing the autistic child or restraining him because he might hurt himself might be justified. But beating him is absolutely disgusting. Nothing out of the ordinary though.

[TheTexan]

Handcuffing the autistic child or restraining him because he might hurt himself might be justified.

In the back of a squad car?

[NewRightLibertarian]

In the back of a squad car?

Dealing with my autistic family, sometimes these kids need to be restrained so they don't hurt themselves. Maybe handcuffing the kid, supervising him and putting him in a stable location wouldn't be a bad idea if the kid started hurting himself. But beating him with the baton was crossing the line and is absolutely disgusting

[angelatc]

Eli was agitated and had a stick, she said. He's lucky he wasn't shot.

[oyarde]

No suprise , my only regret was that I was not the boy , or his best buddy , I would spend the next eight years or so , at my convenience and lots of prior planning , squaring things up a bit .... Yeah , life can be hard , no reason to bring down some extra smart wrath down on your dumb ass , that with a smile and a wink.;)

[ghengis86]

Paid vacation + more training.

Next.

Anything else we can do for you, mundane?

[fisharmor]

He's lucky he wasn't shot.
+rep
We seriously had to get to post 13 before bringing this up?
People, this is a marked improvement in how police handle autistic children.
Actually, this is a marked improvement in how police handle anybody.

[phill4paul]

I think my view on L.E. hitting ANYONE while in handcuffs or restrained would, by now, be self-evident. I will, however, throw in my two-cents to something else in the article that caught my attention.


When reached by phone Thursday, Corbett said he could not give his own account of what occurred because of “legal advice.”

“I would dispute a lot of things,” he said when asked if he would contest statements made about him hitting Eli. He then declined further comment and would not answer a question about whether he had a lawyer.

Would that more Mundanes took this advise to heart. Even the police are trained to STFU until they have legal counsel.

[jkr]

beat him till the white meat shoooowwwss- bernie mac

[osan]

...

"You would arrest me for child abuse," she said she told the chief last week.

She talked to Chief Brian Corbett after she said he “whacked” her son, Eli, with a baton on the ankle and the shin ...

To return him to class at Emily B. Williams Elementary School on Adrian Street, Eli, then calmer, was handcuffed[!!!!!], ...

This for an 8 year old panicking out of fear? Anyone here having any further confusion about the dire results of militarizing police is to meet me at 5:00 for a good slapping about the face. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people; the police for doing such a thing and the rest for not hunting him like a rabid racoon and killing him. Yes, his life should be forfeit for such an act against a small child who, short of waving a gun around, can pose ZERO threat to an armed adult.

BTW, we have many years of baton training behind us. If you have never been stricken by one I recommend you try it. They hurt like a mofo and can EASILY break bones and easily kill. I once had a similar weapon, called a jitte, bounce off a wooden sword into my head. I bled as if I'd been shot. Batons are not toys, but weapons every bit as potentially deadly as a firearm. The chief will skate is where my money rests.


“Let’s make it better,” Kolodie, 33, of Reading Township said.

Yes, by displaying the Chief's dissevered head on a pole in the town square as a warning to one and all who think it is OK to assault our children in such fashion.


Kolodie complained to the village about the treatment of her son, and Corbett has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the completion of an investigation, according to a Tuesday statement from the village manager.

Oh my GOD... not paid administrative leave! Oh, the humanity!


A Michigan State Police sergeant is investigating, according to the statement. Efforts to reach the trooper were not successful.

But don't take that as a strong indicator of what is to come. No fix in here. Nothing to see here folks, move along.


When reached by phone Thursday, Corbett said he could not give his own account of what occurred because of “legal advice.”

In other words, he is guilty as hell, behind a great big 8-ball, and is shitting in his pants. Not to worry Chief Corbett, your brothers in blue... or green or whatever hideous color they use there will find a path, however tortuous, to exoneration and again shall you repair to your lofty throne as the Pontiff of the village. Your reign of terror upon aberrant 8-year olds shall continue into the mists of eternity! All HAIL Lord Corbett! All HAIL Satan!



An aide and his teacher went after him. When he left school property, crossing the road to a golf course, the teacher or aide called 911, Kolodie said.

I would fire the teacher on the spot for stupidity beyond forgiveness.


Eli was agitated and had a stick, she said. He was using it defensively, she said. Kolodie was not there but talked to the chief and school officials.


Oh no! It's an 8-year-old and he's GOT A STICK!Everybody RUN!


Eli would not calm down. "He's scared to death," Kolodie said.

And we ALL know that frightened children need to be punished for being afraid. The more afraid, the more punishment. Because he was frightened to death, the chief should naturally have batoned him to death. That he did not is evidence of the chief's infinite largess, his unlimited kindness and charity and wisdom. All HAIL Chief Corbett. All HAIL Satan.


Up to the point he was in the police car, Kolodie said she did not take real issue with the way the situation was handled. “They had every right to restrain him,” she said. “They had to get my son in a safe spot.”

Only a dufus milquetoast from the midwest would say such a thing. Handcuffs? Really? HANDCUFFS?! On a terrified 8 year old child with autism. What were they afraid of? Seriously, what is there to fear, that he is a mutant with the power to think them to death? Any "normal" adult incapable of physically restraining a child that small without harming the child is a fucking moron, a loser, and would benefit the world greatly by going home and killing themselves and any offspring of theirs with which they have polluted the gene pool. This goes a bit beyond the pale. Even if the little darling kicks you or hits you with the stick - so what? The child is in a state of gross fear and such responses are only to be expected. Take one for the team and avoid making things worse for a child. Jesus tap dancing on the sea... We have actually managed to surpass the conditions depicted in "Idiocracy". I am surprised this planet has not simply imploded as the result of just how stupid people are on the average.


Kolodie said Corbett should be disciplined, educated and trained. He was not told Eli was autistic, she said.

Stupid woman. He should be fired, tried, convicted, and sent to prison for no less than 5 years and be categorized as a child molester and forced to register wherever he lives. He should not have NEEDED to be told the child was autistic in order to have handled him properly.


Kolodie wants people to understand what Eli, other children with this or similar disorders and their parents undergo and handle, and how the disorder affects people.


Stupid woman^2. The autism is completely irrelevant to the questions at hand. The devil beat a child with no just cause. Imprison him - make him regret the day his parents met. As you can see, child abuse is something of an issue with me.


"You would not discipline a child in a wheelchair for not being able to walk," she said.

Hallelujah! Finally an intelligent line from stupid woman! THAT is the point and not the stupid autism.

You know the world in which you live has fallen into chaos when adults cannot contain the behavior of small children without resorting to physical violence. Our nation is gone insane. Completely nucking futs.

Did I say "all hail Lord Corbett. All hail Satan?"

Having fun yet?

[azxd]

4 replies.

4746 views?

WTF?
she said he “whacked” her son
Agenda ignored

[teacherone]

Not since Lord of the Flies has an eight year old with a sharp stick frightened so many pigs!

Recycled response from a frighteningly similar case almost exactly a year ago.

[fisharmor]

Stupid woman. He should be fired, tried, convicted, and sent to prison for no less than 5 years and be categorized as a child molester and forced to register wherever he lives. He should not have NEEDED to be told the child was autistic in order to have handled him properly.

I have very close friends with an autistic son and the mother's attitude is identical.
These days if you have a child with a developmental issue the state, the preschools, the public schools, EVERYONE colludes to get that child into state-run programs.
Who knows what the fuck they're feeding the parents there. (Besides us, that is.)

I have a 3 1/2 YO daughter who simply isn't talking (no autism or retardation or anything), and it's been an uphill battle with EVERYONE who I don't live with to keep her out of their clutches.
Primarily because I know that it'll just end up with one of us getting shot a couple years down the road.

[Kluge]

I have very close friends with an autistic son and the mother's attitude is identical.
These days if you have a child with a developmental issue the state, the preschools, the public schools, EVERYONE colludes to get that child into state-run programs.
Who knows what the fuck they're feeding the parents there. (Besides us, that is.)

I have a 3 1/2 YO daughter who simply isn't talking (no autism or retardation or anything), and it's been an uphill battle with EVERYONE who I don't live with to keep her out of their clutches.
Primarily because I know that it'll just end up with one of us getting shot a couple years down the road.

I feel for you--it seemed that so many gov't agencies were overly interested in my daughter since she was born one month premature--they wanted us to sign on for home nurse visits, "early intervention" and all kinds of other crap. I opted out and they did not seem happy about it...it creeped me out.

That said--have you tried sign language with your daughter? Specs started a thread on it here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?362734-baby-sign-language

My 1-year old daughter loves the videos Specs recommended, and it's made it reasonably easy for me to learn signing too. Here's the website: http://www.signingtime.com/shop/baby-signing-time

[fisharmor]

That said--have you tried sign language with your daughter? Specs started a thread on it here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?362734-baby-sign-language

My 1-year old daughter loves the videos Specs recommended, and it's made it reasonably easy for me to learn signing too. Here's the website: http://www.signingtime.com/shop/baby-signing-time

Oh yeah... it's not that she's not capable, it's that she doesn't want to cooperate. She signs and uses words when it's clear she's not getting what she wants any other way... and after 10 minutes of fighting.
There's nothing wrong with her except for the fact that she's got two GIGANTIC middle fingers and likes to show them to us.
Something I love about her at the same time I hate it... and, ultimately, after all the arguments about brainwashing and creeping us out with controlling our kids, the real argument for keeping her out of state-run programs.
What's the state going to do with a girl who has adopted "oh yeah, well fuck you!" as her M.O.?
Bring back Walter Freeman's methods, is what.

[Brian4Liberty]

4 replies.

4746 views?

WTF?

Never call the Police?



An aide and his teacher went after him. When he left school property, crossing the road to a golf course, the teacher or aide called 911, Kolodie said.

[The Gold Standard]

At least he didn't shoot him. He is lucky his superior was so gracious to spare his life.

[Anti Federalist]

Over 5000 views now.

Was this one of those "twattered" headlines or something?

Does the site count "off site" views?

[Anti Federalist]

dupe post nvm

[WilliamC]

The officer should be charged and arrested for assult and whatever other crimes are involved with beating an 8 year old with a baton, then tried before a jury of parents from his community and hopefully incarcerated for several years.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he should be shot or anything, since it is incumbent upon us to exercise restraint and uphold the rule of law, and as bad as this was it doesn't warrant the death penalty in my opinion.

But if I were the parent I might succumb to a normal psychological response upon learning my child had been physically harmed and do something irrational too.

Don't f@#k with children, those who do so are the worst sort of human I can imagine.

[osan]

I wouldn't go so far as to say he should be shot or anything, since it is incumbent upon us to exercise restraint and uphold the rule of law, and as bad as this was it doesn't warrant the death penalty in my opinion.

Perhaps, but let me ask you this: if it were your child and you were standing there watching this person hit him with the baton and happened to be armed, are you telling me you would not shoot, or at the very least draw the weapon in defense of that child's life? Shooting him under those circumstances would be eminently justified and were I on the jury at your trial you could rest assured of acquittal on my part. I would call homicide in defense of the child not only justified, but laudable as well. These mad dog cops have got to be stopped and WE are the only ones who can do it. When enough of them lie under the earth perhaps those remaining will get some religion and start behaving like civilized human beings rather than foaming-at-the-mouth rodents of unusual size.

[osan]

I have a 3 1/2 YO daughter who simply isn't talking (no autism or retardation or anything), and it's been an uphill battle with EVERYONE who I don't live with to keep her out of their clutches.
Primarily because I know that it'll just end up with one of us getting shot a couple years down the road.

Do not let "them" anywhere near your child. I promise that you will regret it to your dying day. It amazes me the utter temerity that people show in their willingness to impose their judgments upon others in such matters. It may be well intended but that means precious little when they act or cause others to act to force their wills upon you. At some point you may have to become direct if you have not already done so and tell such people to step off. Being a parent these days can be fraught with so many risks. Being a good parent is no longer allowed if the definition falls outside of that provided by the orthodox view, which will result in a neurotic, dependent, and perhaps ultimately cancer-ridden adult. What passes for "normal" today would have had our grandparents in fits. Today's culture demands children be cynical, hard, and utterly messed up, which is the new definition of "healthy". If it is God's nature to be aware of us and to care (i.e. we in his image, of which I am not convinced) and to be empowered to do something, he'd better get cracking because in another generation none of us will be able to recognize the smallest shred of anything resembling sanity.

These results are very much those intended by "authorities". The intentions may not be malevolent. Intentions are irrelevant to the fact that they force us to destroy ourselves. Fuck that noise. Time to start hitting back; hard and without equivocation. Those who demand you destroy your children must be the ones destroyed, and here I mean killed deader than stone. This shit is NOT going to end by way of any social movement, elections, masturbatory hopefulness, or any other half measure. They must be stopped materially and for all time. The reason is because, just like the Terminator they will never stop because they believe that what they are doing is the right thing for a given definition of "right". Reason will not fix it. Holding hands in a circle singing Cumbaya will not fix it. Pleading will not fix it. Forget about the "law" - never happen. Even driving them out from amongst you will not fix it as they will only regroup and call in the men with the guns. They need to be executed so that they can never again return to threaten you a second time.

Extreme?

You fucking bet, and anyone with any brains better than that of a boiled turnip had better remember what Barry Goldwater said about that.

'nuff said - perhaps too much. FTW.

[WilliamC]

Perhaps, but let me ask you this: if it were your child and you were standing there watching this person hit him with the baton and happened to be armed, are you telling me you would not shoot, or at the very least draw the weapon in defense of that child's life? Shooting him under those circumstances would be eminently justified and were I on the jury at your trial you could rest assured of acquittal on my part. I would call homicide in defense of the child not only justified, but laudable as well. These mad dog cops have got to be stopped and WE are the only ones who can do it. When enough of them lie under the earth perhaps those remaining will get some religion and start behaving like civilized human beings rather than foaming-at-the-mouth rodents of unusual size.

I thought I made myself clear about being susceptible to irrational behavior if children are endangered.

[Butchie]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.


Didn't the mother say that? I mean, it was also said among a bunch of other stupid things.

You did see that this was a cop beating an 8 year old with a baton, who was already confined in the back of a squad car, right? I don't think anyone has disputed that as a fact. And until they do, I will believe it is absolutely wrong and unneeded. If you can show me an 8 year old that requires that from a police chief, the police chief needs to go into another line of work, or the 8 year old is a giant threatening monster about to break out of a squad car.

[NewRightLibertarian]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.

Look, we know you are a troll and you justify criminal behavior by the state. We will not accept children being beaten by state goons no matter what your ridiculous and sinister justification is.

[Butchie]

Look, we know you are a troll and you justify criminal behavior by the state. We will not accept children being beaten by state goons no matter what your ridiculous and sinister justification is.

Gee, how'd I know that was coming, yes, you got me, when I'm not trying to take over the world with my Bilderberg buddies I love to come on Ron Paul forums and "justify criminal behavior" by the state.


Didn't the mother say that? I mean, it was also said among a bunch of other stupid things.

You did see that this was a cop beating an 8 year old with a baton, who was already confined in the back of a squad car, right? I don't think anyone has disputed that as a fact. And until they do, I will believe it is absolutely wrong and unneeded. If you can show me an 8 year old that requires that from a police chief, the police chief needs to go into another line of work, or the 8 year old is a giant threatening monster about to break out of a squad car.

I didn't see anything, I wasn't there, all I did was read something from the media, the same media that we all know is famous for sensationalizing things or just plain outright lying, a news article is hardly proof of anything, likewise, even if what was said happened I'd hardly call a whack that resulted in a bruise a "beating with a baton", some of you love the dramatics more than the media does.

If this officer is guilty, and things happened as this article says then fine, fire him, but I don't know that he is guilty and neither do any of you.

[azxd]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.Thanks for being so brutally honest about the perspective some (here) take.

Cops, it seems, are guilty until proven innocent, for some.

[Anti Federalist]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.

Cops are afforded "special treatment" and special status in the eyes of the law.

They can do things that a regular citizen, i.e. a Mundane, cannot.

Indeed, if they tried, they would swiftly, sometimes brutally, be arrested and charged.

Things like whacking a restrained eight year old stranger's child that has autism, with a stick.

You are goddamned right I am going to hold them to a different standard.

Don't like it?

I'll use the same line I hear plenty of people use when confronted with a corporate tyranny or military tyranny:

Don't be a cop.

If we had constitutional sheriffs and sworn citizen deputies, whose "powers" do not exceed that of any other citizen, then I would be more willing to agree with you.

All that being said, I don't think the facts are in dispute here: I have not heard an official denial that these events did not happen.

Obviously the arrest did, it was witnessed by several people.

[azxd]

Didn't the mother say that? I mean, it was also said among a bunch of other stupid things.

You did see that this was a cop beating an 8 year old with a baton, who was already confined in the back of a squad car, right? I don't think anyone has disputed that as a fact. And until they do, I will believe it is absolutely wrong and unneeded. If you can show me an 8 year old that requires that from a police chief, the police chief needs to go into another line of work, or the 8 year old is a giant threatening monster about to break out of a squad car.
Did you miss this ?

she said he “whacked” her son, Eli, with a baton on the ankle and the shin on March 27 as Eli was sitting in the back of a police car. The boy had left school grounds during the school day and was yelling, screaming and kicking, she said.



Kolodie was not there but talked to the chief and school officials.
She, Kolodie, the mom !!!

[WilliamC]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

To some extent this is true, children are resilient and if given plenty of love and nurturing can overcome many tragedies.

However this point is irrelevant in regards to the topic at hand, which is a police officer using a baton on an 8 year old to begin with.


I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.

I agree, due process must be followed as well as the rule of law as much as possible.

But again, this does not address the main point of the debate, which is when is it appropriate for a police officer to use a baton on an 8 year old?

Can you think of any situations where you would stand buy and watch it happen to your child without possibly becoming irrational?

[Anti Federalist]

Did you miss this ?

She, Kolodie, the mom !!!

Is it your contention, then, that the mom is lying, and that this "whacking" never took place?

[Anti Federalist]

Cops, it seems, are guilty until proven innocent, for some.

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

The only truly "innocent" cop is one that turns in his gun and badge and goes home.

[WilliamC]

Look, we know you are a troll and you justify criminal behavior by the state. We will not accept children being beaten by state goons no matter what your ridiculous and sinister justification is.

This is one topic on which I pretty much know I will succumb to my instincts over my reason should ever it arise.

If I caught someone in the act of committing some sort of heinous act on a child I would probably become enraged enough to take such drastic actions that I would have to face some sort of legal repercussions for doing so.

[azxd]

A bit of review for those who autoatically assume guilty, because of profession.


Kolodie complained to the village about the treatment of her son, and Corbett has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the completion of an investigation, according to a Tuesday statement from the village manager.

Corbett said he could not give his own account of what occurred because of “legal advice.”

“I would dispute a lot of things,” he said when asked if he would contest statements made about him hitting Eli. He then declined further comment and would not answer a question about whether he had a lawyer.

An aide and his teacher went after him. When he left school property, crossing the road to a golf course, the teacher or aide called 911, Kolodie said.

Eli was agitated and had a stick, she said. He was using it defensively, she said. Kolodie was not there but talked to the chief and school officials.

Up to the point he was in the police car, Kolodie said she did not take real issue with the way the situation was handled. “They had every right to restrain him,” she said. “They had to get my son in a safe spot.”

The article doesn't even address who told the mom her son had been struck.
The kid had a stick, and could have easily hit himself.

YEP ... Guilty as charged ... Sadly LOLing at the contempt some have for others.

[azxd]

Is it your contention, then, that the mom is lying, and that this "whacking" never took place?With out knowing all the fact, let's just say I'm not going to render a guilty verdict, which is still your modus operandi.

[azxd]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

The only truly "innocent" cop is one that turns in his gun and badge and goes home.YEP ... Positive Proof.

You are a cop hater, and render a verdict of guilty without knowing the facts of a case.

Guilt because of profession.

No wonder you life a life of fear :confused: Never call a COP ... SAD

[Anti Federalist]

YEP ... Positive Proof.

You are a cop hater, and render a verdict of guilty without knowing the facts of a case.

Guilt because of profession.

No wonder you life a life of fear :confused: Never call a COP ... SAD

I am in no position to render anything.

Unlike a cop.

[azxd]

This is one topic on which I pretty much know I will succumb to my instincts over my reason should ever it arise.

If I caught someone in the act of committing some sort of heinous act on a child I would probably become enraged enough to take such drastic actions that I would have to face some sort of legal repercussions for doing so.Most people would ... The question is,
Would you become enraged and commit to drastic action, because someone who was not a witness to what occurred, told you a story that might, or might not be true ?

[azxd]

I am in no position to render anything.

Unlike a cop.Whatever !!!
I'll not argue with a fixated individual who thinks all within a profession are guilty.

But I will pray that you someday see the error in your ways.

[JK/SEA]

Whats the problem?.....you don't believe they will..''make things better''..?..

[Anti Federalist]

Whatever !!!
I'll not argue with a fixated individual who thinks all within a profession are guilty.

But I will pray that you someday see the error in your ways.

Were there good and decent men, who loved their wives and went to church on Sunday and thought they were doing their "civic duty" in the Schutzstaffel?

If this government has gone bad, if it no longer serves the interests of the people in protecting their rights, or the constitution, it is, in fact, illegitimate.

If you serve such a system and enforce it's edicts, you are guilty.

As are every single one of us, you and I included, that are not sitting in federal prison for refusal to pay taxes, as we fund it with our own complacency and are just as guilty.

The only difference between me and you is that I admit it, and am ashamed of it.

[azxd]

LOL

[heavenlyboy34]

re: the OP- it is no surprise that the police "profession" (like politics) is attractive to sociopaths. Lots of violent power to abuse. :(

[phill4paul]

A bit of review for those who autoatically assume guilty, because of profession.

The article doesn't even address who told the mom her son had been struck.
The kid had a stick, and could have easily hit himself.

YEP ... Guilty as charged ... Sadly LOLing at the contempt some have for others.


Kolodie was not there but talked to the chief and school officials.

He had returned to school property. One police officer went to each side of him and the teacher or aide grabbed his belt loop and put him in the police car, Kolodie said.

The chief then opened the car door and swatted the boy on the ankle, Kolodie said. The behavior continued and the chief hit Eli again, this time on the shin, Kolodie said.

You have the reading comprehension of an Academy recruit. WITNESSES. Ever heard of them?

[Anti Federalist]

You have the reading comprehension of an Academy recruit. WITNESSES. Ever heard of them?

They are Mundanes.

Us Mundanes always lie, don't you know that?

This why if, it ever comes down to a court deciding whose testimony was factual, it will be the cop's.

[GuerrillaXXI]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.An adult hitting an eight-year-old with a weapon can result in psychological as well as physical damage. That shouldn't be hard to figure out.

On the bright side, at least that kid will grow up knowing not to trust the police.

The pig should be arrested and charged with whatever any other citizen would be charged with for the same crime.


I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.It's a key part of the police subculture in the US to lie and cover up for themselves and each other whenever any of them commit violent crimes and/or trump up charges against citizens. There's no shortage of such incidents caught on film, and God knows how many didn't happen on camera. Honest cops who blow the whistle on their "brother officers" for wrongfully beating citizens or otherwise abusing civil rights are extremely rare. The police know this, which is why so many of those video clips show one or more of them committing violent crimes with other pigs looking on. The bastards know that no one else in the ranks will report or (voluntarily) arrest them, so they're not worried about their comrades seeing what they do. The police are a national organized crime family that lives by a code of silence, much like the Mafia.

This is why I'll ALWAYS take the word of a private citizen over that of a cop unless there's evidence to support the cop's story. I still believe that even a cop who is accused of a particular crime should receive a fair trial, but if he is found guilty, he should receive a harsher sentence than a private citizen would receive for the same crime. The reason is that when a cop commits a crime, he always commits another crime in addition: abuse of the public trust.


If this officer is guilty, and things happened as this article says then fine, fire him, but I don't know that he is guilty and neither do any of you.If he's guilty, he should NOT merely be fired. He should go to prison for a long time, just like any other violent criminal.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Gee, how'd I know that was coming, yes, you got me, when I'm not trying to take over the world with my Bilderberg buddies I love to come on Ron Paul forums and "justify criminal behavior" by the state.



I didn't see anything, I wasn't there, all I did was read something from the media, the same media that we all know is famous for sensationalizing things or just plain outright lying, a news article is hardly proof of anything, likewise, even if what was said happened I'd hardly call a whack that resulted in a bruise a "beating with a baton", some of you love the dramatics more than the media does.

If this officer is guilty, and things happened as this article says then fine, fire him, but I don't know that he is guilty and neither do any of you.



Fine him or fire him? For child abuse, when he is supposed to be an authority figure? That's it? The average person would be fined, fired, and spend a night in jail before the discussion even started. A cop gets to beat a confined 8 year old with a baton and he should only be fined or fired? The media is usually HEAVILY slanted toward cops and their version of events.




Did you miss this ?


She, Kolodie, the mom !!!



Kolodie was not there but talked to the chief and school officials.


So police and school officials are the ones who told her what happened?



Eli was agitated and had a stick


In the back of a squad car where he was being struck with a baton?? He had a stick in the back of a squad car?


Or are you saying that since an 8 year old had a stick earlier, it's ok to beat him after he's confined?

[osan]

"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop,

Kindly get the knot out of your shorts. The beating part appears to be well established. The fishy behavior of the chief seems to reinforce the sense of his guilt, having probably lawyered up and all that. Nobody has called for denying him due process, but quite the contrary - give him plenty of it, and a nice prison term when convicted.

As for bias against cops, you bet your ass and for good reason. The role of police has never been legitimate, but if we are going to tolerate their presence, they should be held to an exhaustingly high standard of behavior. Regarding their actions while on the job I believe they waive their right to remain silent. Due process, yes, but they should not be allowed to remain silent on ANY point of query relevant to an investigation. Refusal should be taken as an admission of guilt and should constitute sufficient basis for conviction. These rotten cops back each other to the hilt and literally get away with murder. The outrageous actions they take cannot be tolerated and the only way to stop this short of shooting the bastards until either they relent or there are none left is to make bad behavior in the line of duty so horrifically hazardous that they dare not tell even the smallest white lie. Personally I am favor of sheriffs only who form posses in pursuit of real criminals and not some dumbfuk for smoking a joint on the courthouse steps.

This scumbag assaulted an 8 year old child with a deadly weapon. If you doubt the veracity of my estimation of the nature of the weapon, you are welcome to come train with me and I will show you just how easily you can be murdered or grotesquely maimed with a baton. It is NO less lethal than a knife or a gun, differing from those only in its mode of operation.


then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.

Your reading comprehension is apparently not what it could be. I am afraid there is nothing I can do for you there. My teaching career ended in '86 and I've no interest in returning to it.

Crack open a beer, take a valium, and relax. You are entirely too worked up and will burst an artery if you keep this up.

[azxd]

Fine him or fire him? For child abuse, when he is supposed to be an authority figure? That's it? The average person would be fined, fired, and spend a night in jail before the discussion even started. A cop gets to beat a confined 8 year old with a baton and he should only be fined or fired? The media is usually HEAVILY slanted toward cops and their version of events.









So police and school officials are the ones who told her what happened?





In the back of a squad car where he was being struck with a baton?? He had a stick in the back of a squad car?


Or are you saying that since an 8 year old had a stick earlier, it's ok to beat him after he's confined?I'm saying that haters are gonna hate !!!

The entire story is nothing more than the word of the mother, but some want to convict based on hearsay evidence.

[phill4paul]

I'm saying that haters are gonna hate !!!

The entire story is nothing more than the word of the mother, but some want to convict based on hearsay evidence.

As I've said. You have the reading comprehension of an Academy recruit. Lovers gonna love.

Your M.O.?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT758MMhbFRQLXJSQAngfbTdwyQBrewN xd1Yp-67Toxd4wjgGts

[Anti Federalist]

I'm saying that haters are gonna hate !!!

The entire story is nothing more than the word of the mother, but some want to convict based on hearsay evidence.

You are ignoring the facts, just like you ignored the facts on the "war on cops" that isn't.

The mother is relating what numerous witnesses and school "officials" have told her.

I would assume that these same "officials" would have something to say if the person relating their statements to the media was lying about it.

[GuerrillaXXI]

Were there good and decent men, who loved their wives and went to church on Sunday and thought they were doing their "civic duty" in the Schutzstaffel?

If this government has gone bad, if it no longer serves the interests of the people in protecting their rights, or the constitution, it is, in fact, illegitimate.

If you serve such a system and enforce it's edicts, you are guilty.Agreed. Even if the laws of this country were all just and worthy of enforcement, there are still plenty of cops who viciously abuse the authority society entrusts to them. Even those who generally don't commit such abuses almost invariable help cover up for those who do. Because of this well-known Blue Wall of Silence, essentially ALL cops are guilty by association.


As are every single one of us, you and I included, that are not sitting in federal prison for refusal to pay taxes, as we fund it with our own complacency and are just as guilty.

The only difference between me and you is that I admit it, and am ashamed of it.I don't think I'd go quite that far. Anyone who receives a paycheck from an employer is going to have his taxes withheld before even seeing that paycheck. Similarly, anyone who buys anything in a store has to pay some sales tax. So the only way to avoid paying taxes is to not have a job and never buy anything in any store. This is possible in theory, but I consider it a lesser evil to make money at a job and use that money to buy weapons and ammo, donate to pro-freedom causes, etc.

I think it's also easy to mistake restraint born of familial concerns for complacency. I think a lot of people would be taking some pretty drastic measures against shitbag cops if they weren't worried about the well-being of their spouse, children, elderly parents, or other relatives. In a very real sense, the state is holding our loved ones hostage.

[azxd]

As I've said. You have the reading comprehension of an Academy recruit. Lovers gonna love.

Your M.O.?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT758MMhbFRQLXJSQAngfbTdwyQBrewN xd1Yp-67Toxd4wjgGtsIs there a specific reason you jumped into this thread to toss insults around ?

[azxd]

You are ignoring the facts, just like you ignored the facts on the "war on cops" that isn't.

The mother is relating what numerous witnesses and school "officials" have told her.

I would assume that these same "officials" would have something to say if the person relating their statements to the media was lying about it.Ever play telephone ?

The entire story is hearsay.

[Anti Federalist]

Is there a specific reason you jumped into this thread to toss insults around ?

OMFG - ROFL...

Pot, meet Kettle, Kettle, this is Pot.

[azxd]

Out

[Anti Federalist]

Ever play telephone ?

The entire story is hearsay.

Is that why you don't show up in the threads where the case has been adjudicated and the taxpayer's are on the hook for, sometimes millions of dollars, in civil awards, and the cop goes back to work?

[Anti Federalist]

Out

Bye.

[phill4paul]

Is there a specific reason you jumped into this thread to toss insults around ?

Do you hate me for it?

[phill4paul]

Out

10-4

[Butchie]

To some extent this is true, children are resilient and if given plenty of love and nurturing can overcome many tragedies.

However this point is irrelevant in regards to the topic at hand, which is a police officer using a baton on an 8 year old to begin with.



I agree, due process must be followed as well as the rule of law as much as possible.

But again, this does not address the main point of the debate, which is when is it appropriate for a police officer to use a baton on an 8 year old?

Can you think of any situations where you would stand buy and watch it happen to your child without possibly becoming irrational?

Why do you ask me that? OK, I got into a discussion on ethics concerning rich people in another thread, you may have seen it or not, but point is so many poeple on here immediately bashed me as being a socialist when I am nothing of the kind. Everyone here it seems is so quick to go into attack mode on anyone who doesn't jump full swing into their narrative.

See in your reply and most of the other's (except azxd) you've placed me in the role of somehow justifying a cop hitting an 8yr old with a baton, which I never did, I simply was defending the presumption of innocence which as I said seems to get thrown clear out the window whenever it's a cop. Likewise, even if this cop is guilty, I say he deserves punishment but some people on here are even suggesting this cop be murdered? Fired - yes, killed - that is outrageous and frankly sickening.

[Danke]

I don't think I'd go quite that far. Anyone who receives a paycheck from an employer is going to have his taxes withheld before even seeing that paycheck. Similarly, anyone who buys anything in a store has to pay some sales tax. So the only way to avoid paying taxes is to not have a job and never buy anything in any store.

Sales tax hard to avoid. But that is for the (once?) Sovereign States, not the Federal Government.

Income Taxes can be avoided, you don't need anything withheld. Not an easy path, but doable.

[phill4paul]

See in your reply and most of the other's (except azxd) have placed me in the role of somehow justifying a cop hitting an 8yr old with a baton, which I never did, I simply was defending the presumption of innocence which as I said seems to get thrown clear out the window whenever it's a cop.


"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

I always love how you guys scream due process and all that, until it's a cop, then you believe anything anyone says, what happened to letting all the facts come out first, I've seen people standing up for due process in the Zimmeran thing, rightfully so, but as usual, if it's a cop, don't need to hear anything, string him up, he's guilty, your belief in freedom is a joke just like the liberals and conservatives you love it until it goes against you.

What are you, Butchie, azxd's sock puppet? Go back and read the story (or the bolded emphasis I put into the article for azxd's benefit). You have the reading comprehension of an Academy recruit.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think I'd go quite that far.

I do.

There are ways in which you can force an employer to cease withholding.

Or, you can just file a new W-2 form and list 20 dependents, leaving your effective withholding rate at or near zero.

Ain't none of us truly innocent brother.

Some more guilty than others, but we all have some culpability.

[azxd]

Do you hate me for it?Back long enough to say NO !!
Nothing is taken personal on the Internet ;)

[Anti Federalist]

See in your reply and most of the other's (except azxd) you've placed me in the role of somehow justifying a cop hitting an 8yr old with a baton, which I never did, I simply was defending the presumption of innocence which as I said seems to get thrown clear out the window whenever it's a cop. Likewise, even if this cop is guilty, I say he deserves punishment but some people on here are even suggesting this cop be murdered? Fired - yes, killed - that is outrageous and frankly sickening.

While I can't speak for anybody else, I think the point that was being made is that, until we the people start pushing back, none of this will change.

There might be a trial, a civil award and some hush money paid out of the taxpayer's wallet, but in the end, the system will just roll on, getting more and more abusive and more and more predisposed to dealing with us Mundanes with the default setting of a thump to the head, before anything else.

[Anti Federalist]

Back long enough to say NO !!
Nothing is taken personal on the Internet ;)

Except for cop haters.

Then it's personal, for folks like me, right?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Back long enough to say NO !!
Nothing is taken personal on the Internet ;)


Nice to see you back. So, for argument's sake, let's say this chief of police opened a squad car door and hit an 8 year old kid with a baton while he was in the back of a squad car.

Anyone ok with that?

[Danke]

While I can't speak for anybody else, I think the point that was being made is that, until we the people start pushing back, none of this will change.

There might be a trial, a civil award and some hush money paid out of the taxpayer's wallet, but in the end, the system will just roll on, getting more and more abusive and more and more predisposed to dealing with us Mundanes with the default setting of a thump to the head, before anything else.

Exactly.

But someone wants the cop murders? Really? I'm pretty sure that would be a ban.

[WilliamC]

Why do you ask me that?

Because it is germane to the discussion at hand, which is a police officer is alleged to have struck an 8 year old child twice with his baton.

Can you provide us with examples where this would be an acceptable course of action?



OK, I got into a discussion on ethics concerning rich people in another thread, you may have seen it or not, but point is so many poeple on here immediately bashed me as being a socialist when I am nothing of the kind. Everyone here it seems is so quick to go into attack mode on anyone who doesn't jump full swing into their narrative.

I do not understand your response, I am not talking about what you said on some other thread about some other topic.

I'm merely interested if you can provide examples where you think it would be appropriate for a police officer to strike an 8 year old child with a baton, that's all.

Which is what people in this thread are upset about, yes?


See in your reply and most of the other's (except azxd) you've placed me in the role of somehow justifying a cop hitting an 8yr old with a baton, which I never did, I simply was defending the presumption of innocence which as I said seems to get thrown clear out the window whenever it's a cop.

I did no such thing. I merely asked you a question, I in no way tried to prejudice my reply in such a way to implicate your motivations.

The very fact that you offer this as a what you perceive my mental state to be is itself a revealing reply, you do understand?


Likewise, even if this cop is guilty, I say he deserves punishment but some people on here are even suggesting this cop be murdered? Fired - yes, killed - that is outrageous and frankly sickening.

Now I agree with this and did so at the outset of my initial reply, I am all for the officer being charged, arrested, and brought before a judge like any other defendant, and even if it is true that he struck the child I don't think it merits a death penalty.

But I also agree that an ordinary citizen who had done the same thing, or even a parent who did this to their own child, would be treated differently than this officer is, and therein lies the majority of the ire of most on this thread.

And again, I know for myself that actually witnessing such an event would be likely to trigger very strong protective instincts which may cause me to act irrationally with respect to my own well-being in order to eliminate the threat I perceived to the child victim.

Wouldn't you agree?

[Butchie]

What are you, Butchie, azxd's sock puppet? Go back and read the story (or the bolded emphasis I put into the article for azxd's benefit). You have the reading comprehension of an Academy recruit.

Well, you've sure convinced me with your brilliant replies, and no, I don't know azxd, but he or she seems to be about the only other person on this site with any kind of sense, the things you highlighted don't mean anything, we had plenty of evidence against that cleric that Obama drone striked didn't we? Still was wrong to execute him without due process wasn't it?

[Danke]

... we had plenty of evidence against that cleric that drone striked didn't we? Still was wrong to execute him without due process wasn't it?

If we had plenty of evidence, the why not afford him due process, in absentia?

[Butchie]

Because it is germane to the discussion at hand, which is a police officer is alleged to have struck an 8 year old child twice with his baton.

Can you provide us with examples where this would be an acceptable course of action?




I do not understand your response, I am not talking about what you said on some other thread about some other topic.

I'm merely interested if you can provide examples where you think it would be appropriate for a police officer to strike an 8 year old child with a baton, that's all.

Which is what people in this thread are upset about, yes?



I did no such thing. I merely asked you a question, I in no way tried to prejudice my reply in such a way to implicate your motivations.

The very fact that you offer this as a what you perceive my mental state to be is itself a revealing reply, you do understand?



Now I agree with this and did so at the outset of my initial reply, I am all for the officer being charged, arrested, and brought before a judge like any other defendant, and even if it is true that he struck the child I don't think it merits a death penalty.

But I also agree that an ordinary citizen who had done the same thing, or even a parent who did this to their own child, would be treated differently than this officer is, and therein lies the majority of the ire of most on this thread.

And again, I know for myself that actually witnessing such an event would be likely to trigger very strong protective instincts which may cause me to act irrationally with respect to my own well-being in order to eliminate the threat I perceived to the child victim.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well, shouldn't have brought up the other post, I was just trying to reference that in relation to how people just love to attack whenever they perceive someone to be going against one of their sacred issues and then put words in your mouth to accomplish this.

I asked you why you asked about the baton because I fail to see where I was at any point justifying a cop hitting a helpless 8yr old? Where did you get that from? In fact, I think I was quite clear that if this officer indeed did hit the kid then he deserves to be punished, my only point was that unlike most on these boards I am not going to crucify anyone unless I was there and know exactly what happened.

[phill4paul]

Well, you've sure convinced me with your brilliant replies, and no, I don't know azxd, but he or she seems to be about the only other person on this site with any kind of sense, the things you highlighted don't mean anything, we had plenty of evidence against that cleric that Obama drone striked didn't we? Still was wrong to execute him without due process wasn't it?

And that's about the extent of your Academy training, Butchie. Folderol and misdirection. I never said a word about execution and I'd be all for 'due process' if indeed Justice was blind. Excepting, Justice has blue coloured glasses,a K-9 Corps seeing eye dog and a baton for a walking stick. So go ahead and try to reinterpret the wording from your original post all you care to. Perhaps you should have talked to a lawyer before posting.


"His life is forever changed. This kid is traumatized by this" - give me a break, it's a bruise.

[WilliamC]

Well, shouldn't have brought up the other post, I was just trying to reference that in relation to how people just love to attack whenever they perceive someone to be going against one of their sacred issues and then put words in your mouth to accomplish this.

Very well, let us reset the conversation then.

Can you think of circumstances in which you would consider it appropriate for a police officer to strike an 8 year old child with a baton?


I asked you why you asked about the baton because I fail to see where I was at any point justifying a cop hitting a helpless 8yr old?

I merely wish to confirm that we are in agreement, or not, as to this question, that is all. I am not implying that you think it is appropriate, just waiting for an answer.


Where did you get that from?

It's called a question. I made it up to determine if we are able to come to some type of understanding.

So far I am not succeeding in understanding you.


In fact, I think I was quite clear that if this officer indeed did hit the kid then he deserves to be punished, my only point was that unlike most on these boards I am not going to crucify anyone unless I was there and know exactly what happened.

Well I'm glad that we can agree on the minimal statement that the offending officer 'should be punished' but I still have no idea what you mean by it.

Should he have been treated like any other citizen who might strike an 8 year old child with a baton? Especially, if as alleged, the child was already restrained?

I am just curious if you think there are situations where this is justifiable or not, that's all.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Nice to see you back. So, for argument's sake, let's say this chief of police opened a squad car door and hit an 8 year old kid with a baton while he was in the back of a squad car.

Anyone ok with that?


Very very simple. Anyone ok with that ?????????

[Danke]

Very very simple. Anyone ok with that ?????????

Very nuanced, I'll have to think about it.

[Butchie]

And that's about the extent of your Academy training, Butchie. Folderol and misdirection. I never said a word about execution and I'd be all for 'due process' if indeed Justice was blind. Excepting, Justice has blue coloured glasses,a K-9 Corps seeing eye dog and a baton for a walking stick. So go ahead and try to reinterpret the wording from your original post all you care to. Perhaps you should have talked to a lawyer before posting.

I wouldn't change one bit of my wording, what I said was not in reference to the cop or his actions but apparently your Academy training didn't allow you to pick up on that.

[Butchie]

Very well, let us reset the conversation then.

Can you think of circumstances in which you would consider it appropriate for a police officer to strike an 8 year old child with a baton?



I merely wish to confirm that we are in agreement, or not, as to this question, that is all. I am not implying that you think it is appropriate, just waiting for an answer.



It's called a question. I made it up to determine if we are able to come to some type of understanding.

So far I am not succeeding in understanding you.



Well I'm glad that we can agree on the minimal statement that the offending officer 'should be punished' but I still have no idea what you mean by it.

Should he have been treated like any other citizen who might strike an 8 year old child with a baton? Especially, if as alleged, the child was already restrained?

I am just curious if you think there are situations where this is justifiable or not, that's all.

I would have a hard time thinking of one, but the quote from the officer said he had a very different version of events, ie maybe he didn't hit the kid.

[kcchiefs6465]

Well, shouldn't have brought up the other post, I was just trying to reference that in relation to how people just love to attack whenever they perceive someone to be going against one of their sacred issues and then put words in your mouth to accomplish this.

I asked you why you asked about the baton because I fail to see where I was at any point justifying a cop hitting a helpless 8yr old? Where did you get that from? In fact, I think I was quite clear that if this officer indeed did hit the kid then he deserves to be punished, my only point was that unlike most on these boards I am not going to crucify anyone unless I was there and know exactly what happened.

This story reminds me of when I was about that age (11 or so) having a 230 pound steroidal psycho screaming at the top of his lungs two inches away from my face how he could "just tell that I wanted to hit him" smacking his cheek telling me to "take your best shot pussy." All the while I am ankle cuffed to a concrete bench (Actually had a cuff mark on my leg for weeks). After about six hours of that (and a hell of a lot more) I was released without charge. Ten years later he is chief of police (true story). I guess I have been "there" too many times. It isn't really hard for me to envision how exactly this happened.

And of course, he is definitely entitled due process. Hopefully at his own expense as I would have to :rolleyes:

[phill4paul]

I wouldn't change one bit of my wording, what I said was not in reference to the cop or his actions but apparently your Academy training didn't allow you to pick up on that.

Outstanding retort with the 'Academy training' there! Did you learn that one about the time you were parroting 'I know you are but what am I?" :rolleyes:

[WilliamC]

I would have a hard time thinking of one, but the quote from the officer said he had a very different version of events, ie maybe he didn't hit the kid.

I actually don't have a hard time imagining such circumstances, I'm just wondering what circumstances you would think would justify this action on the part of the police officer.

And no, I wasn't there and don't know what happened, but that's not what the discussion is about. We have courts to determine legal issues, but this is simply a forum discussion and not subject to the same constraints.

Assuming that the story is correct and that this police officer did strike the child with a baton while the child was handcuffed in the back of a police car, would this be justified in your opinion?

I say no, but I still don't know what your answer to this question is despite me having asked multiple times.

Your failure to provide an answer is itself an answer of sorts, but I'm trying real hard to give you the benefit of the doubt.

There comes a point though when someone is so obviously avoiding giving a straight answer then the most logical conclusion is that they are trying to hide their answer because it would incriminate them somehow.

You appear to be acting as an apologist for police violence, in this case against a child, and you appear to be advocating that the police officer be given special consideration over what any normal person would be given should they have done what this officer is alleged to have done.

And the longer you refuse to answer simple questions the more you bolster this appearance. I'm just trying to give you a chance to explain yourself on this open, public forum discussion that you are voluntarily participating in, that's all.

You don't have to reply if your answer would embarrass you.

[Butchie]

I actually don't have a hard time imagining such circumstances, I'm just wondering what circumstances you would think would justify this action on the part of the police officer.

And no, I wasn't there and don't know what happened, but that's not what the discussion is about. We have courts to determine legal issues, but this is simply a forum discussion and not subject to the same constraints.

Assuming that the story is correct and that this police officer did strike the child with a baton while the child was handcuffed in the back of a police car, would this be justified in your opinion?

I say no, but I still don't know what your answer to this question is despite me having asked multiple times.

Your failure to provide an answer is itself an answer of sorts, but I'm trying real hard to give you the benefit of the doubt.

There comes a point though when someone is so obviously avoiding giving a straight answer then the most logical conclusion is that they are trying to hide their answer because it would incriminate them somehow.

You appear to be acting as an apologist for police violence, in this case against a child, and you appear to be advocating that the police officer be given special consideration over what any normal person would be given should they have done what this officer is alleged to have done.

And the longer you refuse to answer simple questions the more you bolster this appearance. I'm just trying to give you a chance to explain yourself on this open, public forum discussion that you are voluntarily participating in, that's all.

You don't have to reply if your answer would embarrass you.

I gave my answer several times:


If this officer is guilty, and things happened as this article says then fine, fire him, but I don't know that he is guilty and neither do any of you.


Likewise, even if this cop is guilty, I say he deserves punishment but some people on here are even suggesting this cop be murdered? Fired - yes, killed - that is outrageous and frankly sickening.


In fact, I think I was quite clear that if this officer indeed did hit the kid then he deserves to be punished.

and just recently:


I would have a hard time thinking of one,

But, in case that was not clear enough then I will say: No, I do not think it is justifiable for a police officer to hit an 8yr old child that is handcuffed in the back of a police car. What on earth ever made you think I believed that, or was giving the appearance of that being OK is beyond me, also when did I ever say I felt the officer should get any kind of special treatment? I asked that he be given due process same as anyone else, since when is that special treatment?

About the only other thing I can think of that would be considered "defending" him was speaking out against some on here who were suggesting he be killed and I still stand by that, a bruise on a kid's leg, tho deplorable, hardly warrants a death sentence.

[Butchie]

double post sorry

[WilliamC]

I gave my answer several times:
and just recently:
But, in case that was not clear enough then I will say: No, I do not think it is justifiable for a police officer to hit an 8yr old child that is handcuffed in the back of a police car.

Thank you, neither do I. I am honestly glad you are not someone who thinks that any violence by a police officer against an ordinary citizen is automatically justified.

There really are evil, sick, psychopathic types who do wish to harm innocents, and there are those who may not actively wish to do so but will support someone in a position of authority when they do so.

They are called enablers, and they are largely responsible for the above mentioned psychopaths being able to get away with the heinous crimes they commit.

And here on RPF there are definitely apologists for the psychopathic parasites who are currently at the very top of the worlds economy (no not all 'rich' people are such, but it only takes a small minority to f@$k things up for everyone.

Exposing these enablers and apologists is one of my primary activities here.


What on earth ever made you think I believed that, or was giving the appearance of that being OK is beyond me, also when did I ever say I felt the officer should get any kind of special treatment? I asked that he be given due process same as anyone else, since when is that special treatment?

It's not that I automatically thought this of you , it's just that it can sometimes be very difficult to determine the veracity of the statements made by those posting on anonymous internet forums, so I sometimes make sure I am absolutely clear on what someone I am communicating with is trying to say.

I've found that by being polite and asking pointed questions I can almost always figure out something about the mental state of people I communicate with on online forums.

That's all.



About the only other thing I can think of that would be considered "defending" him was speaking out against some on here who were suggesting he be killed and I still stand by that, a bruise on a kid's leg, tho deplorable, hardly warrants a death sentence.

And if you recall I started my conversation with you by agreeing with this.

I merely wish to see how much agreement we can reach, and if we disagree, what the exact nature of that disagreement is.

Thank you.

[azxd]

Except for cop haters.

Then it's personal, for folks like me, right?NOPE !!

[Anti Federalist]

NOPE !!

Glad to hear it.

Same here.

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

Thank you so much for the support. There have been a few articles written about this and to be honest I have been both over whelmed by the support and by the critizizm. I could have understood people not caring. But I can not understand people being against me. At least the police department is taking me seriously by asking for an independent investigation. But currently the Hillsdale Co ISD is blaming the entire thing on the police.
I did not trust my child to the police. If I had - I would have been up there - with his picture - and instructions on his behavour and what works. INstead I trusted him to a scool and teachers that were suppose to be the experts. They stood there and watched as this happened - they never interceded to tell the police officer he was special needs - they never said - let us handle this. My son was on school grounds and the experts stood there and watched. They allowed him off school grounds and then stood there and did nothing. Is this America any more. Because if I was walking down the street and saw a police man acting like that I would have interceeded for any child. How could his teachers not?

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

Hey this is the stupid woman - and I loved your post.
I am trying to stay very calm here becuase as I get ' your out of control child' thrown at me I need to reflect every bit of composure.
If I seem to error on the side of causion that is why. I want to be able to help fix this and I feel that I can do better by trying not to come accross as a vindictive B* - but I agree with everything that you said!
Thank you

[Kluge]

Hey this is the stupid woman - and I loved your post.
I am trying to stay very calm here becuase as I get ' your out of control child' thrown at me I need to reflect every bit of composure.
If I seem to error on the side of causion that is why. I want to be able to help fix this and I feel that I can do better by trying not to come accross as a vindictive B* - but I agree with everything that you said!
Thank you

Welcome to the forum. Very sorry about what happened to your son--you'll find that there are a few here who will defend almost anything that a cop does, but they are in the minority.

Nice to hear from you.

[azxd]

The whole story is still one sided hearsay ... Nothing has really changed.
An upset mother has spoken her mind ... Deal with it how you wish.

[azxd]

Welcome to the forum. Very sorry about what happened to your son--you'll find that there are a few here who will defend almost anything that a cop does, but they are in the minority.

Nice to hear from you.Agreed ... There are far more vocal cop haters here, who condemn LEO's over the slightest story with absolutely nothing more than a suspicion :D
Yet you are wrong to say that the more rational and level headed will "defend almost anything that a cop does".

We just read more thouroughly, and don't jump to a guilty verdict without evidence.

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

The Jackson Paper has more articles , one about the actual police report. That states that my son was kicking the window in the police car and the Chief opened the door and hit him on his shin.
This report also reflects that he was not handcuffed until after he was back at the school and his teacher said he could go back into class (With 4 other children) and then he was handcuffed and led to his class room.

I am not the one who made the comment that his life is forever changed. He will be okay - but I am sure that htere will be additional therapy to deal with all of this. But I will not allow this to change him forever. We will work through it

[Kluge]

Agreed ... There are far more vocal cop haters here, who condemn LEO's over the slightest story with absolutely nothing more than a suspicion :D
Yet you are wrong to say that the more rational and level headed will "defend almost anything that a cop does".

We just read more thouroughly, and don't jump to a guilty verdict without evidence.

Whatever. You just like to be angry and argue anything that a cop does. I never said the cop was guilty for sure, but you're just trying to stifle discussion by jumping in every 2s and saying "but you don't know! you weren't there!" No kidding, genius. Does that mean nobody should know about it, discuss it and follow what happens?

[Anti Federalist]

Is this America any more.

As a statement of fact and a question, Kris, the answer remains the same.

No, it is not.

I do not know what your "political" outlook was before this happened, but, rest assured, after this incident and what you will find out if you stick around here long enough, you will be changed.

I wish you and your son the very best and hope that this turns out well for both of you.

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

I talked to the chief about two hours after it happened. After I saw the bruise and after the teacher told me what happened. The chief was very open and honest. He is the one who used the word "whacked" - When I got off the phone with him I was in shock. I called one of my son's threrapist and asked her to go with me to talk to the police in person. I honestly thought I was so upset that I was not hearing things correctly. I went with his therapist and we sat down face to face with the chief. He stated that he did nothing wrong because he was not told my son was special needs. I met with the school. The school states it was not any of there responsibility becuase the police were in charge. There are really not diffrent senerios. Slightly diffrent memories but the basic of what happened we all agree with (Police - School- me) It is just who's fault it was that we allowed this to happen and whos responsibility it is to make policy changes to assure that it never happens again.

[azxd]

Whatever. You just like to be angry and argue anything that a cop does. I never said the cop was guilty for sure, but you're just trying to stifle discussion by jumping in every 2s and saying "but you don't know! you weren't there!" No kidding, genius. Does that mean nobody should know about it, discuss it and follow what happens?I'm not the one being confrontational in this thread ;) And I'm not one of the forum vocal majority who jumps to conclusions without having facts.

[Anti Federalist]

Hopefully our resident cop apologist will read that.

Nobody is disputing the facts: that your 8 year old autistic son was handcuffed in the back of a patrol car and received at least two "whacks" with a police baton for misbehaving.

Is this correct?



I talked to the chief about two hours after it happened. After I saw the bruise and after the teacher told me what happened. The chief was very open and honest. He is the one who used the word "whacked" - When I got off the phone with him I was in shock. I called one of my son's threrapist and asked her to go with me to talk to the police in person. I honestly thought I was so upset that I was not hearing things correctly. I went with his therapist and we sat down face to face with the chief. He stated that he did nothing wrong because he was not told my son was special needs. I met with the school. The school states it was not any of there responsibility becuase the police were in charge. There are really not diffrent senerios. Slightly diffrent memories but the basic of what happened we all agree with (Police - School- me) It is just who's fault it was that we allowed this to happen and whos responsibility it is to make policy changes to assure that it never happens again.

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

I would have a hard time thinking of one, but the quote from the officer said he had a very different version of events, ie maybe he didn't hit the kid.

http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2012/04/police_report_boy_was_kicking.html

Slightly diffrent then what they told me a few hours after it happened (they told me the situation twice) however - there is no way around the idea that they did in fact open the door and hit my son with a baton becuase he was kicking inside of the car (he was scared to death at this point and he does not handle fear well - fight or flight are his two responces)

[azxd]

I've read every word that has been written ... Sue me for additional information being presented days after the article was posted by the OP.

I also never excused the actions of the officer, but did point out that many (here) were developing conclusions based on a one-sided story ... YES ?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

That states that my son was kicking the window in the police car and the Chief opened the door and hit him on his shin.

If you are, or are not, who you say you are, that is not ok with me.

If an 8 year old is banging his nose against a window and someone restrains the child to protect them from themselves, I would be willing to accept that as appropriate.

If a "law enforcement" officer hits a confined weaponless 8 year old with a baton, I will not accept that as appropriate.

If you, as his mother, would like to accept that, then it certainly complicates my feelings on the issue. Batons are deadly weapons. An unarmed 8 year old in the back of a squad car is quite the innocent. I think the most devious and dangerous 8 year old could be dealt with more humanely at that point. If you were hitting him with a baton in the back of your non-fortified car, the same policeman would arrest you for child abuse.

[azxd]

http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2012/04/police_report_boy_was_kicking.html

Slightly diffrent then what they told me a few hours after it happened (they told me the situation twice) however - there is no way around the idea that they did in fact open the door and hit my son with a baton becuase he was kicking inside of the car (he was scared to death at this point and he does not handle fear well - fight or flight are his two responces)Like I said AF ... Hearsay !!!

Ma'am
Be thankful they did not taze your son ... It happens more often than most want to believe, and it is considered less-lethal than using a baton.

[Anti Federalist]

Like I said AF ... Hearsay !!!

Ma'am
Be thankful they did not taze your son ... It happens more often than most want to believe, and it is considered less-lethal than using a baton.


there is no way around the idea that they did in fact open the door and hit my son with a baton becuase he was kicking inside of the car

Yeah, and if they tased this poor kid to death, you'd be defending that as well.

[azxd]

there is no way around the idea that they did in fact open the door and hit my son with a baton becuase he was kicking inside of the car
Yeah, and if they tased this poor kid to death, you'd be defending that as well.NOPE, but I'd still be pointing out that the mother was not there, and the story is her version of what she was told happened.

In her own words (if this is the mother) ... It's an idea, a hyphothesis, but that does not make it a fact unless a witness comes forth, and is willing to make a statement.

[Anti Federalist]

NOPE, but I'd still be pointing out that the mother was not there, and the story is her version of what she was told happened.

In her own words (if this is the mother) ... It's an idea, a hyphothesis, but that does not make it a fact unless a witness comes forth, and is willing to make a statement.

Unless you want to assume that both:

A - The woman quoted in the OP is lying.

B - The same woman quoted here is lying.

There is nothing to dispute:


I talked to the chief about two hours after it happened. After I saw the bruise and after the teacher told me what happened. The chief was very open and honest. He is the one who used the word "whacked"

I'd be all for waiting to hear all sides of story, if it wasn't cops.

They have an unfair advantage going into it, since the system automatically assumes that the cop is telling the absolute truth, and a Mundane will always lie.

And that's just not the case.

[pcosmar]

NOPE, but I'd still be pointing out that the mother was not there,


And if the Cop was never there none of this would have happened.

The very concept of police is Authoritarian, and contrary to the principles of liberty.
They should not exist.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

NOPE, but I'd still be pointing out that the mother was not there, and the story is her version of what she was told happened.

In her own words (if this is the mother) ... It's an idea, a hyphothesis, but that does not make it a fact unless a witness comes forth, and is willing to make a statement.


I thought the witnesses were school administrators and law enforcement. Are police and school administrators reliable witnesses or not?

[azxd]

Unless you want to assume that both:

A - The woman quoted in the OP is lying.

B - The same woman quoted here is lying.

There is nothing to dispute:



I'd be all for waiting to hear all sides of story, if it wasn't cops.

They have an unfair advantage going into it, since the system automatically assumes that the cop is telling the absolute truth, and a Mundane will always lie.

And that's just not the case.WIll you deny that parents make emotional comments when their children are the topic of discussion, and they feel their child has been wronged ?

I'm not ready to declare that anyone is telling the truth, or lying.
But it is very obvious that some have an axe to grind, and therefore they will jump to conclusions.

As you always say never call the cops ... Never talk to the cops ;)

It's your bias, and you are welcome to it, even if it might be wrong.

It's kind of like Pete, and his claim that police should not exist ... Dismissal of an entire societies wants and beliefs, because of an internal bias.

[azxd]

I thought the witnesses were school administrators and law enforcement. Are police and school administrators reliable witnesses or not?Read the OP, and decide who is telling the story ... Clue ... It's not the witnesses.

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

Hopefully our resident cop apologist will read that.

Nobody is disputing the facts: that your 8 year old autistic son was handcuffed in the back of a patrol car and received at least two "whacks" with a police baton for misbehaving.

Is this correct?

That is correct.
The chief told me and one of my sons theripest that they "dragged him by his arms and stuffed him in the back seat of the police car" when he would not settle down he opened the door and "whacked him on the ankle". Slammed the door. Waited and when he did not calm down he opened the door and "Whacked him on his shin" This was hours after the insident.
The police report states that he was hit once outside of the car and once in the car.
Interesting that the two stories are diffrence but both are equally upsetting.
Also interesting that they had a hold of him outside of the car and DID NOT put cuffs on him and then when he came back to school and the Teacher said he was able to go back into the class room wtih 5 other students THEN the handcuffed him to take him back to class.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Read the OP, and decide who is telling the story ... Clue ... It's not the witnesses.


The Chief of police "lawyered up" lol. They hate it when a regular person does that. I bet he wasn't even "questioned" by anyone.

The mother is being way more than fair here. I doubt people got together to lie about the treatment of an autistic 8 year old. It's not like we're talking about a crime ring and giving witnesses immunity for testifying against someone. Really, what motives do people have for speaking in witness of an 8 year old getting hit with a baton? So at this point, you're calling mom a liar? Or just the people who told her what happened?

[azxd]

Read the OP, and decide who is telling the story ... Clue ... It's not the witnesses.

The Chief of police "lawyered up" lol. They hate it when a regular person does that. I bet he wasn't even "questioned" by anyone.

The mother is being way more than fair here. I doubt people got together to lie about the treatment of an autistic 8 year old. It's not like we're talking about a crime ring and giving witnesses immunity for testifying against someone. Really, what motives do people have for speaking in witness of an 8 year old getting hit with a baton? So at this point, you're calling mom a liar? Or just the people who told her what happened?I have no answer to your questions.

Yet you have also not addressed the idea of WHO is telling the story to the press ;) ... Unless you are implying that by being fair, the mother is in fact the source for this one-sided story.

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

Here is another article:
http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2012/04/proper_procedure_followed_by_s.html

So it is not my word as a wittness - it is what I was told by the school and the police chief.
What ISD told the reporter
and what the police report stated

There is no disagreement on the situation.
The only disagreement is if someone was responsible for the situation getting out of control
It is not okay to hit a child in the back of a police car...if I would do it I am confident that I would be arrested
It is not okay to have a teacher and a teachers aid watch it happen and not attempt to do anything to stop it.
You can tell a lot about society by how it treats the most vulnarable. (Children / Elderly) Obviously we are failing here.
To I believe that I can do something that will make this never happen again - probably not- but if I can push and get one policy change (proceedure on what the police do if they are on one of these calls again) (fence up around play ground) - training for first responders so they know what they should do - it will be worth it. So do I think that I can change the police - nope- do I think I can make it slightly better - I have to believe that.

[Anti Federalist]

That is correct.
The chief told me and one of my sons theripest that they "dragged him by his arms and stuffed him in the back seat of the police car" when he would not settle down he opened the door and "whacked him on the ankle". Slammed the door. Waited and when he did not calm down he opened the door and "Whacked him on his shin" This was hours after the insident.
The police report states that he was hit once outside of the car and once in the car.
Interesting that the two stories are diffrence but both are equally upsetting.
Also interesting that they had a hold of him outside of the car and DID NOT put cuffs on him and then when he came back to school and the Teacher said he was able to go back into the class room wtih 5 other students THEN the handcuffed him to take him back to class.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Our resident cop apologist will continue to insist that you're a liar, but, pay him no mind.

I believe you, because I see this every day.

[Anti Federalist]

I have no answer to your questions.

You have no answers because there are no answers.

At this point, it is abundantly clear that a cop did in fact, "whack" an eight year old autistic boy with a police baton.

Now, you can either justify that or not, but the facts are not in dispute.

[Kluge]

You have no answers because there are no answers.

At this point, it is abundantly clear that a cop did in fact, "whack" an eight year old autistic boy with a police baton.

Now, you can either justify that or not, but the facts are not in dispute.

So...let's compare what would happen if a civilian hit a kid with a baton:

--In jail, $10,000 (or more) bond. Has to hire a lawyer at his own expense. Won't be allowed to be around children if he makes bond--will have to live with family member or in a motel.

When a cop hits a kid with a baton (and there are witnesses):

--Paid leave, goes home, probably to his own children. "Hires" a lawyer at taxpayer expense? Not entirely sure how that part works.

[kcchiefs6465]

You have no answers because there are no answers.

At this point, it is abundantly clear that a cop did in fact, "whack" an eight year old autistic boy with a police baton.

Now, you can either justify that or not, but the facts are not in dispute.
Hmm. I wonder which one it will be :rolleyes:

[Anti Federalist]

So...let's compare what would happen if a civilian hit a kid with a baton.

Allow me to pick a nit, if you don't mind.

Cops are not military.

They are, in fact, "civilians" just like you and me, as much as they'd like to think they are not.

[azxd]

Haters still hate before the facts are in ... That's my only problem.
Those who call me a cop apologist are unable to look in the mirror and see what they do, daily.

They persecute without knowing the facts, and I still pray for you, becaue it is so obvious.

Condemnation because of title/profession ... SAD.

[azxd]

Allow me to pick a nit, if you don't mind.

Cops are not military.

They are, in fact, "civilians" just like you and me, as much as they'd like to think they are not.So are politicians.

[Anti Federalist]

So are politicians.

Yes, yes they are.

[Kluge]

Allow me to pick a nit, if you don't mind.

Cops are not military.

They are, in fact, "civilians" just like you and me, as much as they'd like to think they are not.

I always welcome reasonable corrections. Thanks.

[azxd]

So are politicians.Yes, yes they are.Yet you do not condemn them with such furvor, even as they write the laws you oppose ... Why is that ?

[kcchiefs6465]

Yet you do not condemn them with such furvor, even as they write the laws you oppose ... Why is that ?
Because they don't beat me a baton.

[azxd]

Because they don't beat me a baton.I'll wait for AF to respond.

[Anti Federalist]

Because they don't beat me a baton.

Or harass me on the side of the road.

Or give me a wood shampoo for riding a motorcycle.

Or shock me with an electric torture device.

Or storm my home with grenades and tanks.

Or cut me to ribbons with automatic weapons fire.

[Anti Federalist]

I'll wait for AF to respond.

Number 136.

Besides, what "law" was being broken by this eight year old boy?

The cop gave him a thump because he could, because he knew he could inflict a level of physical violence on somebody way beyond what was called for and WAY beyond what you or I would be able to get away with, had somebody witnessed us doing the same exact same thing, and that he could get away with it.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'll wait for AF to respond.
I apologize. I couldn't resist :D

[azxd]

Or harass me on the side of the road.

Or give me a wood shampoo for riding a motorcycle.

Or shock me with an electric torture device.

Or storm my home with grenades and tanks.

Or cut me to ribbons with automatic weapons fire.Do you really fear such things will happen to you, or are you being melodramatic LOL

[Anti Federalist]

Do you really fear such things will happen to you, or are you being melodramatic LOL

Number one and two have already happened to me, more than once.

Number three came close on two different occasions.

Other citizens have not been so lucky, and have suffered four and five, many times in fact.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I have no answer to your questions.

Yet you have also not addressed the idea of WHO is telling the story to the press ;) ... Unless you are implying that by being fair, the mother is in fact the source for this one-sided story.


What makes it one sided? The police chief, who was involved in the incident, won't talk? I'm 100% for due process for every american citizen. "Police" usually aren't. I'd like to see him have his day in court.

Really, who wants to lie about a cop hitting an autistic 8 year old with a baton? Where's the motive for that? So if the kid has injuries, would you like to come up with new theory as to how that happened?

[azxd]

Number one and two have already happened to me, more than once.

Number three came close on two different occasions.BOO !!!

Change your lifestyle is all I can suggest.

[Anti Federalist]

BOO !!!

Change your lifestyle is all I can suggest.

That's what I figured you'd say.

And that's the point isn't it?

Compliance, even though, on every one of those occasions that I mentioned that concerned me, personally, no law was being broken, and no charges were ever filed.

This is the world you want to live in, where people exercise their rights, and get whacked in the head by cops for stepping "out of line".

Sorry if I want no part of that.

[Kluge]

BOO !!!

Change your lifestyle is all I can suggest.

Oh ho-ho-hold on a minute here!

Who is calling someone "guilty" and deserving of brutality without any information? Wait a minute and color me absolutely shocked! Mr. Logic assumes that AF is deserving of some physical beatings without hearing both sides of the story? My GOD, you're such a fucking hypocrite.

[azxd]

That's what I figured you'd say.

And that's the point isn't it?

Compliance, even though, on every one of those occasions that I mentioned that concerned me, personally, no law was being broken, and no charges were ever filed.

This is the world you want to live in, where people exercise their rights, and get whacked in the head by cops for stepping "out of line".

Sorry if I want no part of that.Then continue to live in fear ... It is your right to do as you wish, as long as it does not harm others.

Might telling others, repeatedly, to never call the cops, do them harm ?

[azxd]

Oh ho-ho-hold on a minute here!

Who is calling someone "guilty" and deserving of brutality without any information? Wait a minute and color me absolutely shocked! Mr. Logic assumes that AF is deserving of some physical beatings without hearing both sides of the story? My GOD, you're such a fucking hypocrite.Perhaps you read to much between the lines ... I did not say such things.

[Kluge]

Perhaps you read to much between the lines ... I did not say such things.

"Perhaps you should change your lifestyle." i.e. it's his fault that those things happened--and you state it as if it's definitive.

You are a fucking hypocrite. Gotcha.

[Anti Federalist]

Then continue to live in fear ... It is your right to do as you wish, as long as it does not harm others.

Might telling others, repeatedly, to never call the cops, do them harm ?

No.

IMO, it will help keep them alive and out of jail, if more people understand just what they are going to get when they dial 911, and just what can happen to them if they talk to cops without knowing what the law is or how they open themselves to prosecution, just like that woman in Mississippi, who is going to jail for innocently admitting to cops she bought Sudafed, even when she was not "Mirandized".

Do not call cops, if it can at all be avoided.

Do not talk to cops, without proper legal counsel beforehand.

[azxd]

"Perhaps you should change your lifestyle." i.e. it's his fault that those things happened--and you state it as if it's definitive.

You are a fucking hypocrite. Gotcha.If that's what you want to believe, I'll not stop you, nor convince you otherwise :D

[Kluge]

If that's what you want to believe, I'll not stop you, nor convince you otherwise :D

No, you won't. That's your failure, but good try. :D

[pcosmar]

Might telling others, repeatedly, to never call the cops, do them harm ?

NO
The police are unnecessary.
In every situation. They should not exist in the first place. The fact that they do exist and regularly violate the rights of others is a problem that we are addressing.

They are an Authoritarian Control Mechanism.
Law enforcement is the duty of the people and is best handled by the people themselves. Personally, and without violating the rights of others.

[WilliamC]

"Perhaps you should change your lifestyle." i.e. it's his fault that those things happened--and you state it as if it's definitive.

You are a fucking hypocrite. Gotcha.

Ah, yep.

"Change your lifestyle"?

Change your attitude towards law-enforcement style instead, that's the problem.

[Anti Federalist]

bump

[bolil]

I really like how they (cops) usually have to go to community college for... er...hmmm... training? Heh... not only do we pay their salaries but we pay for their "education".

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

If you are, or are not, who you say you are, that is not ok with me.

If an 8 year old is banging his nose against a window and someone restrains the child to protect them from themselves, I would be willing to accept that as appropriate.

If a "law enforcement" officer hits a confined weaponless 8 year old with a baton, I will not accept that as appropriate.

If you, as his mother, would like to accept that, then it certainly complicates my feelings on the issue. Batons are deadly weapons. An unarmed 8 year old in the back of a squad car is quite the innocent. I think the most devious and dangerous 8 year old could be dealt with more humanely at that point. If you were hitting him with a baton in the back of your non-fortified car, the same policeman would arrest you for child abuse.

I do not condon at all. My very point is if you had to restrain him that I can deal with. There are times if he is raging that I can undertand the need to protect others and himself - hold him - wait for him to calm down- there is NEVER a reason to HIT him with a wooden stick - completly UNACCEPTABLE.
For the teachers to stand there and watch and DO NOTHING - again COMPLETLY unacceptable

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

Number 136.

Besides, what "law" was being broken by this eight year old boy?

.

I asked the following questions to the chief
Did you feel you were in danger or there were others in danger
He answered No (with a laugh)
I asked
Did you feel that he was a danger to himself
He answered No
I said then why did you open the door and hit him
His answer he was committing a felony.
For fear of becoming very upset and getting arrested myself and not being able to help my son I went on to other things
However this is were in my mind it becomes BS (honestly all of it is beyond my comprehension)
But a felony - that has to be a willful act - can an 8 year old (they didnt know he was autistic) but throwing what they said was a temer tantrum be doing a willful act that you would consider a felony?
In addition does he really believe the back of a police car - that is designed to hold grown adult men really be damaged by an 80lb 8 year old?

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

I have made my face book open to the public for people who do not think I am who I am.
Kristen Kolodie
email krisbrayeli@yahoo.com
All the articles are posted there and I appreciate the support and discussion on here.

[AGRP]

The state deals with peaceful dissidence with violence. How is this not a surprise?

[Anti Federalist]

His answer: he was committing a felony.

This deserves its own thread.

[phill4paul]

This deserves its own thread.

Indeed.

[Anti Federalist]

Another late night bump

[krisbrayeli@yahoo.com]

Special prosecutor to review whether Jonesville chief's use of force warrants criminal charge
By Danielle Salisbury | Danielle_Salisbury@mlive.com The Jackson Citizen Patriot | Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 2:08 PM

[Anti Federalist]

Special prosecutor to review whether Jonesville chief's use of force warrants criminal charge
By Danielle Salisbury | Danielle_Salisbury@mlive.com The Jackson Citizen Patriot | Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 2:08 PM

Thanks for the update.

Here's the story:



Special prosecutor to review whether Jonesville chief's use of force warrants criminal charge

http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2012/04/special_prosecutor_to_review_w.html

ONESVILLE, MI -- A special prosecutor is to decide whether Jonesville Police Chief Brian Corbett's use of force in handling a runaway elementary school student last month warrants any criminal charges.

Last week, Michigan State Police Detective Sgt. Marc Moore completed his investigation into the March 27 incident and sent his report to the Hillsdale County Prosecutor's Office, state police Detective 1st Lt. Sean Furlong said Wednesday afternoon.

Hillsdale County Prosecutor Neal Brady, who has long known Corbett, said he will ask the state attorney general's office to assign a special prosecutor, possibly Branch County Prosecutor Terri Norris or a member of her staff, to review the case.

"If there is a potential for conflict, it's the appropriate thing to do," said Brady, who knows Corbett well and has worked with him for more than 15 years.

The mother of 8-year-old Eli Kolodie filed a complaint with the village on March 28, alleging the chief used "excessive force" to restrain her son, who has a form of autism.

Eli had left the playground while at recess at Jonesville's Emily B. Williams Elementary School, where he is in a classroom for emotionally impaired students operated by the Hillsdale Intermediate School District.

Corbett twice hit Eli on the lower leg with his baton, once before and once after the boy was placed in a police car, Furlong said.

The boy was uncooperative and disruptive, Furlong said.

Jonesville police said he was kicking and screaming, according to a written village report.

Police and school staff put him in the car. When a teacher said he was calm enough to return to the classroom, Corbett put a cuff on one of his arms and held on to Eli until he was back inside the room, according to the village police report.

"I don't think there is any question of what happened. It is just whether that officer was justified with the circumstances in front of him," said Furlong of the state police District 1 headquarters in Lansing.

He said the detective sergeant compiled a fact-based report. There is no opinion or judgement.

Corbett has been on paid administrative leave since March 30.

[Anti Federalist]

Hey, azxd, now that it is clear that the cop did, in fact, hit this boy with a baton, twice, what is your position now?

Justified?

[Kluge]

Special prosecutor to review whether Jonesville chief's use of force warrants criminal charge
By Danielle Salisbury | Danielle_Salisbury@mlive.com The Jackson Citizen Patriot | Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 2:08 PM

Kris--just wanted to let you know that we're in Spring Arbor, should you need anything.

[kcchiefs6465]

Corbett twice hit Eli on the lower leg with his baton, once before and once after the boy was placed in a police car, Furlong said.

"I don't think there is any question of what happened. It is just whether that officer was justified with the circumstances in front of him," said Furlong of the state police District 1 headquarters in Lansing.

It definitely warrants charges. I would assume your witnesses have signed statements affirming their testimonies?

EDIT: Directed towards Mrs. Kolodie. I apologize for any confusion in quoting AF.