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View Full Version : Honest Question: If the general election was between Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, and..




mlee45
04-12-2012, 11:12 AM
a third party nominee... who are you going to cast your vote for?

CaptUSA
04-12-2012, 11:13 AM
Ron Paul. Duh...

NOBP. I'll write him in if they make me.

WilliamC
04-12-2012, 11:13 AM
For me it depends largely on what Ron Paul does.

Last time he endorsed Chuck Baldwin so that's who I voted for.

azxd
04-12-2012, 11:14 AM
The blacked out Republican candidate ;)

_pauladin_
04-12-2012, 11:14 AM
Ron Paul.

PaulSoHard
04-12-2012, 11:17 AM
anyone but Romney or Obama

orenbus
04-12-2012, 11:17 AM
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/401017_10151180438870696_595945695_22586276_362513 562_n.jpg

ssjevot
04-12-2012, 11:17 AM
Please don't do a write-in. Many states don't count them and it won't provide the GOP with evidence of how many voters they lost to 3rd parties by picking Romney. Voting for Johnson will help provide the best wake-up call to the GOP (and I don't even like Johnson that much, he's my third pick for the LP nominee).

rockerrockstar
04-12-2012, 11:18 AM
Depends on who the thrid party nominee is. I probably will vote Obama unless it is Ron Paul as the third party guy. I just don't think a third party candidate has much a chance unless it is Ron. I just don't think I can trust Romney and we all ready have an idea what Obama may do. At least Obama extended my unemployment benefits. Not sure I can trust Obama to not start a war with Iran. At least Obama is ending the wars with Iraq and hopefully Afganistan. Reason I say Obama is ending the war with Iraq is we are still paying private contract soldiers last I heard. I will wait and see if Romney comes up with some good ideas but he flip flops so not sure. I think Romney may start a war with Iran I don't like the idea.

69360
04-12-2012, 11:20 AM
With Ron or Rand as VP I'll vote Romney
Ron on the Ballot 3rd party I'll vote Ron
No Ron on the ballot Johnson
No Ron or Johnson on the ballot Roemer
No Ron, Johnson or Roemer on the ballot then write in Ron.

hammy
04-12-2012, 11:23 AM
No.

One.

But.

Paul.

Brett85
04-12-2012, 11:45 AM
At least Obama extended my unemployment benefits.

Lol. That's quite a reason to vote for Obama. Do you realize that Ron Paul always votes AGAINST extending unemployment benefits?

Brett85
04-12-2012, 11:47 AM
I'll write in Ron Paul's name on the ballot unless the Constitution Party nominates someone decent.

RabbitMan
04-12-2012, 11:48 AM
Lol. That's quite a reason to vote for Obama. Do you realize that Ron Paul always votes AGAINST extending unemployment benefits?

I think the point was that at least Obama will spend some of that excess money on his citizens rather than exclusively throw it away overseas. ;) I wrote Paul in last time partially because I couldn't STAND Bob Barr. I'll vote Johnson if Paul is off the radar, if nothing else then to prove a previous commenter's point that the GOP is pushing away supporters.

PLUS, Libertarian party is 100% against the Drug War. I don't even do anything illegal and from an objective standpoint it is a disgrace and responsible for at least 25% of our country's problems today.

blakjak
04-12-2012, 11:50 AM
Johnson. Until the GOP gets it act together, I will vote 3rd party.

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 11:50 AM
Gary Johnson is no Ron Paul.

If we don't know how a candidate is going to vote on the issues, then why should they be considered?

It should boil down to being that simple.

musicmax
04-12-2012, 11:50 AM
Please don't do a write-in. Many states don't count them and it won't provide the GOP with evidence of how many voters they lost to 3rd parties by picking Romney. Voting for Johnson will help provide the best wake-up call to the GOP (and I don't even like Johnson that much, he's my third pick for the LP nominee).

QFT. Anyone who is planning to write-in Ron Paul if he is not on the "official" ballot MUST at least expend the effort to find out what their state's laws are for write-ins. At best you'll be in a state where write-ins are permitted and you'll get to vote for Paul, at worst you'll get into an unwinnable argument with an 80-year-old volunteer poll worker and come across looking like a tool.

RabbitMan
04-12-2012, 11:51 AM
Gary Johnson is no Ron Paul.

If we don't know how a candidate is going to perform, then they shouldn't get a vote.

It should boil down to being that simple.

I don't understand. Johnson was a Governor. Are you saying because he hasn't served in the House you can't vote for him? You are better than that Josh.

musicmax
04-12-2012, 11:52 AM
Gary Johnson is no Ron Paul.

If we don't know how a candidate is going to perform, then they shouldn't get a vote.

It should boil down to being that simple.

1. Johnson's record as governor of New Mexico is well-documented. If you like it, vote for him. If you don't, don't.

2. The LP candidate's votes will at least get counted. In many states, write-ins aren't permitted at all; in other states you have to file a petition with a certain number of signatures in order for write-in votes to be allowed and counted.

3. In a state where only Obamney and the LP candidate are on the ballot, if Obama's margin over Romney is smaller than the number of votes for the LP candidate, that sends a strong message to the GOP that Romney-type candidates are not acceptable. In this scenario it will also be likely that Obama will be held under 50% of the total, precisely because LP votes are counted in the total. With lots of write-in votes that get thrown away, it is more likely that Obama would cross the 50% threshold.

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 11:55 AM
He never voted on foreign policy as Governor of New Mexico and I don't like what he has said about military aid for Israel.

musicmax
04-12-2012, 11:57 AM
He never voted on foreign policy as Governor of New Mexico and I don't like what he has said about military aid for Israel.

Does your state count write-in votes?

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 11:57 AM
Did I offer write-in votes as a solution?

puppetmaster
04-12-2012, 12:01 PM
write in Dr. Paul....don't care if it "counts",,,,,,not sure if any vote really "counts":rolleyes:

r3volution
04-12-2012, 12:01 PM
ill write it on the diebold machine in magic marker if i have to .

MelissaCato
04-12-2012, 12:02 PM
Write-in Ron Paul like I did in 2008.

craezie
04-12-2012, 12:03 PM
Please don't write in -- as stated 1000 times, it will not be read or counted by anyone, ever. We need to send a message to the GOP for marginalizing us, and that will only happen if a substantial amount of votes are lost to a liberty candidate. Gary Johnson may not be ideal--I personally abhor his stance on baby-killing -- but he at least promotes liberty.

sailingaway
04-12-2012, 12:06 PM
Lol. That's quite a reason to vote for Obama. Do you realize that Ron Paul always votes AGAINST extending unemployment benefits?
not if he can get the money cut somewhere else. He prioritizes the people over corporate welfare, every time. Look at his Plan to Restore America. In a perfect world he'd set it up differently, but the base of unemployment is a forced insurance plan, as social security is, and he considers that a contract right.

sailingaway
04-12-2012, 12:07 PM
Please don't write in -- as stated 1000 times, it will not be read or counted by anyone, ever. We need to send a message to the GOP for marginalizing us, and that will only happen if a substantial amount of votes are lost to a liberty candidate. Gary Johnson may not be ideal--I personally abhor his stance on baby-killing -- but he at least promotes liberty.

It promotes the idea we would vote for Gary Johnson, which doesn't apply to me. Each person has to make up their own mind, of course.

I would probably follow Ron's lead, but I'd write Ron in rather than vote for Johnson if there were no facts beyond what you state. For me to vote for someone who is going to lose, they have to stand for the things I find important, so voting for them is a statement of what I require in a candidate, and Johnson simply isn't principled enough in my view. His cost benefit approach compromises what I consider to be hard and fast principles.

musicmax
04-12-2012, 12:08 PM
Did I offer write-in votes as a solution?

So you're staying home if it's Obamney vs. GJ?

musicmax
04-12-2012, 12:09 PM
ill write it on the diebold machine in magic marker if i have to .

Because Ron Paul endorsed defacing public property and wants to be associated with same.

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 12:11 PM
So you're staying home if it's Obamney vs. GJ?

That's quite a hypothetical. How much money is in GJ's coffers?

I won't support a candidate if I don't know how they will perform. Trust is the bottom line.

puppetmaster
04-12-2012, 12:15 PM
Please don't write in -- as stated 1000 times, it will not be read or counted by anyone, ever. We need to send a message to the GOP for marginalizing us, and that will only happen if a substantial amount of votes are lost to a liberty candidate. Gary Johnson may not be ideal--I personally abhor his stance on baby-killing -- but he at least promotes liberty.

Ah shucks....it has to be stated 200,000,000 times to have me think about not writing in RP.....nevermind I will be voting for RP no matter what.

The GOP does not give a rats ass about your message. They have convinced you (and millions others) that there is a difference between party's. It is a divide and conquer tactic and works quite well here in America. DON'T FALL FOR IT

musicmax
04-12-2012, 12:18 PM
That's quite a hypothetical. How much money is in GJ's coffers?

I won't support a candidate if I don't know how they will perform. Trust is the bottom line.

This entire thread is a hypothetical. If you don't deal in hypotheticals, don't participate in this thread.

Bonus fail points for (a) basing your vote on a candidate's campaign warchest; (b) repeating the already-discredited "how will they perform" straw man. If I posted here that "I'm not voting for Ron Paul for President because he has no executive experience" I'd rightfully get thrashed (and not just by the cultists).

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 12:19 PM
I was dealing with it as a hypothetical.

How much money is in his coffers?

Can he be trusted on foreign policy? How much does our foreign policy have to do with the economical problems we face today?

Where did I say that he doesn't have executive experience?

sailingaway
04-12-2012, 12:22 PM
give me any proof that executive experience is a plus.

Jingles
04-12-2012, 12:23 PM
Gary Johnson has always been my second choice to Paul and he still is. He isn't "perfect". No one perfect, but he would actually address our debt/war/civil liberties issues.

musicmax
04-12-2012, 12:23 PM
give me any proof that executive experience is a plus.

Uh... that was my point. :rolleyes:

sailingaway
04-12-2012, 12:27 PM
Uh... that was my point. :rolleyes:

what I meant was it is a straw argument. Refraining from using one irrelevant argument doesn't make your chosen arguments relevant. There are a LOT of irrelevant arguments to choose from.

tremendoustie
04-12-2012, 12:34 PM
Please don't do a write-in. Many states don't count them and it won't provide the GOP with evidence of how many voters they lost to 3rd parties by picking Romney. Voting for Johnson will help provide the best wake-up call to the GOP (and I don't even like Johnson that much, he's my third pick for the LP nominee).

This.

John F Kennedy III
04-12-2012, 12:37 PM
Write in Ron Paul....and mail it to the RNC HQ.

musicmax
04-12-2012, 12:37 PM
what I meant was it is a straw argument.

As is Josh's argument against Johnson. Unless he wants to categorically dismiss, say, Reagan and both Roosevelts as also unfit for the Presidency solely because they too had yet to "perform" on foreign policy at the time of their respective elections.

And on reflection Josh's argument deserves even more fail points since he singles out one military aid recipient rather than objecting to all foreign aid on principle.

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 12:41 PM
And on reflection Josh's argument deserves even more fail points since he singles out one military aid recipient rather than objecting to all foreign aid on principle.

Don't put words in mouth. I was being specific to my problems with Johnson.

I'll go dig up GJ's specific quotes from about a year ago that I have a problem with. You think I didn't weigh his record heavily before deciding if he should have a subforum here?

I don't approve of any foreign aid due to our debt and borrowing problems.

r3volution
04-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Because Ron Paul endorsed defacing public property and wants to be associated with same. lmao , ya . thats it , you have me figured out .

orenbus
04-12-2012, 12:46 PM
This thread should go to Hot Topics, imo. Lets cross this bridge if we get to it, Ron Paul grassroots central has bigger fish to fry right now.

PolicyReader
04-12-2012, 12:52 PM
This thread should go to Hot Topics, imo. Lets cross this bridge if we get to it, Ron Paul grassroots central has bigger fish to fry right now.
I second the motion.

CaseyJones
04-12-2012, 01:06 PM
I would never vote for Johnson

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
We support the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign country and believes that the United States should protect that right militarily if needed.

http://ouramericainitiative.com/issues/defense-and-the-middle-east-war
(http://ouramericainitiative.com/issues/defense-and-the-middle-east-war)

I don't know how Johnson would perform when it comes to Iran or Syria.

I believe Israel is a sovereign country who can and should make their own decisions.

We do enough intervening in the killing for peace dept.



You don't need to export democracy to Israel. We've already got it.

And you don't need to send American troops to Israel. We defend ourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-hypbVzYj8&t=3m18s

I'd like to see America stay out of that mess.

Johnson also talks about another wasteful war at home. The war on drugs. But he has only advocated ending part of the prohibition that creates the black markets and violent cartels. (Only the legalization of cannabis, and strictly from a cost-benefit analysis, not one of individual liberty.)

I passed on him long ago because he dances in too much of the grey area.

You can vote for Johnson, I'm not offering him my support.

Lightweis
04-12-2012, 01:15 PM
I will be voting and supporting the republican nominee and that is going to be RON PAUL. Stop talking about this and lets get back to work!

VBRonPaulFan
04-12-2012, 01:17 PM
Please don't write in -- as stated 1000 times, it will not be read or counted by anyone, ever. We need to send a message to the GOP for marginalizing us, and that will only happen if a substantial amount of votes are lost to a liberty candidate. Gary Johnson may not be ideal--I personally abhor his stance on baby-killing -- but he at least promotes liberty.

that just isn't true. in my state (VA), write-in's ARE counted as long as the candidate files with the state board of elections declaring their intent to be a write-in candidate. if there are a lot of states like this, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to get the campaign to file the paperwork.

Philhelm
04-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Why isn't "secession" one of the poll options?

musicmax
04-12-2012, 01:22 PM
http://ouramericainitiative.com/issues/defense-and-the-middle-east-war
(http://ouramericainitiative.com/issues/defense-and-the-middle-east-war)

Thanks for the OAI quote.... I was not aware of that one (was aware of the Bibi one). That's definitely a problem for GJ (as it implies that he is judging the Israeli situation differently from how he would judge others).

jmdrake
04-12-2012, 01:28 PM
I was dealing with it as a hypothetical.

How much money is in his coffers?

Can he be trusted on foreign policy? How much does our foreign policy have to do with the economical problems we face today?

Where did I say that he doesn't have executive experience?

You're evaluating him as if you think he could actually win running 3rd party. I don't. I see a third party vote as simply a way to tally how many folks don't like Obama or Romney. And if Johnson isn't to your fancy hopefully some other 3rd party candidate is. Maybe Baldwin will run again.

No Free Beer
04-12-2012, 01:31 PM
It amazes me how many people have already thrown away their principles by not voting for Ron Paul.

Pericles
04-12-2012, 01:36 PM
1. Johnson's record as governor of New Mexico is well-documented. If you like it, vote for him. If you don't, don't.

2. The LP candidate's votes will at least get counted. In many states, write-ins aren't permitted at all; in other states you have to file a petition with a certain number of signatures in order for write-in votes to be allowed and counted.

3. In a state where only Obamney and the LP candidate are on the ballot, if Obama's margin over Romney is smaller than the number of votes for the LP candidate, that sends a strong message to the GOP that Romney-type candidates are not acceptable. In this scenario it will also be likely that Obama will be held under 50% of the total, precisely because LP votes are counted in the total. With lots of write-in votes that get thrown away, it is more likely that Obama would cross the 50% threshold.


That ^

Shane Harris
04-12-2012, 01:45 PM
http://mfoster.com/misc/write-in_rules_2008.php

Simple
04-12-2012, 02:03 PM
As much as I like about Gary Johnson, his stated support for Ugandan intervention makes him a member of the War Party in my book.

JoshLowry
04-12-2012, 02:09 PM
Trying to find it, but I read he advocated for intervention into Pakistan on Freedom Watch.

Also came across this recent article with wishy washy GJ foreign policy stances. Includes KONY intervention support.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/09/thedcs-jamie-weinstein-gary-johnsons-strange-foreign-policy/

(http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/09/thedcs-jamie-weinstein-gary-johnsons-strange-foreign-policy/)
You're evaluating him as if you think he could actually win running 3rd party. I don't.

I was just rolling with a hypothetical.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?371711-Honest-Question-If-the-general-election-was-between-Mitt-Romney-Barack-Obama-and..&p=4351406&viewfull=1#post4351406

DamianTV
04-12-2012, 06:10 PM
No one but Paul.

Problem here is this state does not even allow Write In Ballots. Well, or so the jackasses at the voting booths told me last time.