Even as Violent Crime Falls, Killing of Officers Rises [Archive]

azxd

04-10-2012, 02:23 PM

Even as Violent Crime Falls, Killing of Officers Rises
(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/us/defying-trends-killings-of-police-officers-are-on-the-rise.html?_r=3&hp)By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/michael_s_schmidt/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/joseph_goldstein/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: April 9, 2012

WASHINGTON — As violent crime has decreased across the country, a disturbing trend has emerged: rising numbers of police officers are being killed.
According to statistics compiled (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/officers-feloniously-killed) by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_bureau_of_investigation/index.html?inline=nyt-org), 72 officers were killed by perpetrators in 2011, a 25 percent increase from the previous year and a 75 percent increase from 2008.

The 2011 deaths were the first time that more officers were killed by suspects than car accidents, according to data compiled by the International Association of Chiefs of Police (http://www.theiacp.org/). The number was the highest in nearly two decades, excluding those who died in the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001 and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995.

While a majority of officers were killed in smaller cities, 13 were killed in cities of 250,000 or more. New York City lost two officers last year. On Sunday, four were wounded (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/nyregion/four-officers-wounded-in-gunfight-in-brooklyn.html) by a gunman in Brooklyn, bringing to eight the number of officers shot in the city since December.

“We haven’t seen a period of this type of violence in a long time,” said Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/raymond_w_kelly/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of the New York Police Department (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/new_york_city_police_department/index.html?inline=nyt-org).

While the F.B.I. and other law enforcement officials cannot fully explain the reasons for the rise in officer homicides, they are clear about the devastating consequences.

“In this law enforcement job, when you pin this badge on and go out on calls, when you leave home, you ain’t got a promise that you will come back,” said Sheriff Ray Foster of Buchanan County, Va. Two of his deputies were killed (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42061569/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/deputies-slain-wounded-rural-va-shootout/) in March 2011 and two wounded — one of them paralyzed — by a man with a high-powered rifle.

“That was 80 percent of my day shift,” he said.

After a spate of killings in early 2011, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/eric_h_holder_jr/index.html?inline=nyt-per) asked federal authorities (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-22/us/law.enforcement.safety_1_law-enforcement-officers-officer-deaths-bulletproof-vests?_s=PM:US) to work with local police departments to try to come up with solutions to the problem.

The F.B.I., which has tracked officer deaths since 1937, paid for a study conducted by John Jay College that found that in many cases the officers were trying to arrest or stop a suspect who had previously been arrested for a violent crime.

SNIP

Czolgosz

04-10-2012, 02:27 PM

Increase in attempted theft by government creates more interaction w/ the public?

Feeding the Abscess

04-10-2012, 02:31 PM

Cops have killed more civilians than the reverse.

Since violent crime is decreasing, it's not surprising that civilians would react with defensive force when their slave masters intrude on their property.

tod evans

04-10-2012, 02:33 PM

No where does the article mention the percentage of increase in the sheer number of cops.

Neither does it mention the change in police policy and tactics that could be a contributing factor.

Setting forth the idea that the poor cops have it rough without looking at the whole picture is worse than slanted journalism.

There's two sides to every coin..........

John F Kennedy III

04-10-2012, 02:35 PM

*popcorn*

Pericles

04-10-2012, 02:36 PM

The real issue is that the number killed is subject to statistical anomaly. Because we are dealing with a number of less than 100, jsut one more or less represents a remarkable percentage shift.

TonySutton

04-10-2012, 02:38 PM

We had a local cop die here within the last year. He was responding to a call. Rushed into a house without backup. They named a road after him. His 3 daughters no longer have a dad. He was part of the special response team and I have wondered if his special training caused him to make a poor decision.

Bosco Warden

04-10-2012, 03:31 PM

Sure thing, and why local LEO's will be deploying tanks or "Military" equipment they have been given over the last year.

All these LEO's need to do is follow the law, and maybe they wont themselves dead by armed citizens.

Not everyone is a sheep for Govt.

kcchiefs6465

04-10-2012, 05:06 PM

As violent crime has decreased across the country
So can we at least agree that we need to slash the number of police officers? Violent crime is down and cop killing is up. It sounds to me like a failed policy. But I imagine you feel the opposite.. more police officers to protect police officers.

Anti Federalist

04-10-2012, 05:48 PM

<<<20 paragraphs of cop loving and soldier sniffing>>>

Rarely does one see failure, so hard, in nature...

The “War on Cops” That Wasn’t. And Still Isn’t.

Saturday, April 7th, 2012

http://www.theagitator.com/2012/04/07/the-war-on-cops-that-wasnt-and-still-isnt/

You might remember that about this time last year, media outlets, police groups, even Attorney General Eric Holder were up in arms over an alleged “war on cops” taking place all across the fruited plains. In April of last year, on-the-job officer deaths were up 20 percent from the same point in 2010. The media went nuts, pointing an accusatory finger at anti-government rhetoric, a “don’t tread on me” mentality, anti-cop Internet sites, and gun ownership.

But some wise folks (ahem) didn’t buy into the hype. On-the-job cop deaths had been falling for 20 years. Those numbers couldn’t keep dropping forever. And the claims of some sort of surge in violent anti-cop, anti-government anger were belied by the fact that non-fatal assaults on police officers were also dropping.

In retrospect, those of us who were skeptical of the hysterical headlines look to have been correct. While January and February of last year saw a few unusual mass shootings of multiple police officers, those months appear to have been anomalies. Police deaths in the remaining months of 2011 were mostly on par with prior years.

So what about this year? Police officer deaths are down 48 percent from last year. Firearms deaths specifically are down 58 percent. And as the watchdog blog Clark County Criminal Cops points out, a significant number of the firearms deaths were actually cops who were shot by other cops.

The police watchdog websites are still out there. The Tea Party and “Don’t Tread on Me” patriot movements are still going strong. You also now have the Occupy movements, which foment a lot of anti-police sentiment (in many cases, justifiably). Gun owners certainly haven’t been melting down their weapons en masse.

And yet officer fatalities and violence against police officers have nosedived. In fact, if the current pace keeps up, we’ll actually hit an all-time low in police fatalities this year. And these are just the raw numbers. They aren’t percentages of the total police force (which has been growing), or police deaths in comparison to deaths in the larger population.

All worth keeping in mind should the numbers slightly tick up again—as any statistics pulled from a large population of people are bound to do from time to time—and the media and police groups again start placing blame, and calling for us to grant the police more powers, less oversight, and bigger guns.

Anti Federalist

04-10-2012, 05:55 PM

*popcorn*

Post 10.

/thread

DamianTV

04-10-2012, 06:52 PM

Anyone ever see this movie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rDdMlKV2Mg
(Freakanomics on Crime Rate)

WilliamC

04-10-2012, 07:06 PM

I'm thinking to get the Sheriff of my County a complimentary 1 year membership in http://www.cspoa.org/, paid for by me, with a nice letter and what not.

Might be worth a $120 investment, and as I am in real life an upstanding citizen with zero criminal background or record it really has no downside either.

'cept for the $120, but that's not a huge amount and maybe it will get the Sheriff more awake and aware than he is now.

phill4paul

04-10-2012, 08:09 PM

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/

Law Enforcement Officer Fatalities
Preliminary 2012 Numbers
April 10, 2012

2012
2011 % Change
Total Fatalities 31 59 -47%
Firearms-related 11 26 -58%
Traffic-related 12 19 -37%
Other Causes 8 14 -43%

Please note: These numbers reflect total officer fatalities comparing April 10, 2012 to April 10, 2011.

Anti Federalist

04-10-2012, 08:21 PM

In b4 an edit.

:D

Even as Violent Crime Falls, Killing of Officers Rises
(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/us/defying-trends-killings-of-police-officers-are-on-the-rise.html?_r=3&hp)By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/michael_s_schmidt/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/joseph_goldstein/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: April 9, 2012

WASHINGTON — As violent crime has decreased across the country, a disturbing trend has emerged: rising numbers of police officers are being killed.
According to statistics compiled (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/officers-feloniously-killed) by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_bureau_of_investigation/index.html?inline=nyt-org), 72 officers were killed by perpetrators in 2011, a 25 percent increase from the previous year and a 75 percent increase from 2008.

The 2011 deaths were the first time that more officers were killed by suspects than car accidents, according to data compiled by the International Association of Chiefs of Police (http://www.theiacp.org/). The number was the highest in nearly two decades, excluding those who died in the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001 and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995.

While a majority of officers were killed in smaller cities, 13 were killed in cities of 250,000 or more. New York City lost two officers last year. On Sunday, four were wounded (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/nyregion/four-officers-wounded-in-gunfight-in-brooklyn.html) by a gunman in Brooklyn, bringing to eight the number of officers shot in the city since December.

“We haven’t seen a period of this type of violence in a long time,” said Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/raymond_w_kelly/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of the New York Police Department (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/new_york_city_police_department/index.html?inline=nyt-org).

While the F.B.I. and other law enforcement officials cannot fully explain the reasons for the rise in officer homicides, they are clear about the devastating consequences.

“In this law enforcement job, when you pin this badge on and go out on calls, when you leave home, you ain’t got a promise that you will come back,” said Sheriff Ray Foster of Buchanan County, Va. Two of his deputies were killed (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42061569/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/deputies-slain-wounded-rural-va-shootout/) in March 2011 and two wounded — one of them paralyzed — by a man with a high-powered rifle.

“That was 80 percent of my day shift,” he said.

After a spate of killings in early 2011, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/eric_h_holder_jr/index.html?inline=nyt-per) asked federal authorities (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-22/us/law.enforcement.safety_1_law-enforcement-officers-officer-deaths-bulletproof-vests?_s=PM:US) to work with local police departments to try to come up with solutions to the problem.

The F.B.I., which has tracked officer deaths since 1937, paid for a study conducted by John Jay College that found that in many cases the officers were trying to arrest or stop a suspect who had previously been arrested for a violent crime.

SNIP

QuickZ06

04-10-2012, 08:50 PM

o really......

James Madison

04-10-2012, 08:59 PM

Yeah, violent crime. Thankfully, we have the War on Drugs to create a bunch of non-violent criminals to keep the jails full. Anybody want to ballpark an estimate for the percentage of cops that are killed while responding to drug-related crimes?

tod evans

04-11-2012, 03:02 AM

KingNothing

04-11-2012, 05:48 AM

Rarely does one see failure, so hard, in nature...

The “War on Cops” That Wasn’t. And Still Isn’t.

Saturday, April 7th, 2012

http://www.theagitator.com/2012/04/07/the-war-on-cops-that-wasnt-and-still-isnt/

You might remember that about this time last year, media outlets, police groups, even Attorney General Eric Holder were up in arms over an alleged “war on cops” taking place all across the fruited plains. In April of last year, on-the-job officer deaths were up 20 percent from the same point in 2010. The media went nuts, pointing an accusatory finger at anti-government rhetoric, a “don’t tread on me” mentality, anti-cop Internet sites, and gun ownership.

But some wise folks (ahem) didn’t buy into the hype. On-the-job cop deaths had been falling for 20 years. Those numbers couldn’t keep dropping forever. And the claims of some sort of surge in violent anti-cop, anti-government anger were belied by the fact that non-fatal assaults on police officers were also dropping.

In retrospect, those of us who were skeptical of the hysterical headlines look to have been correct. While January and February of last year saw a few unusual mass shootings of multiple police officers, those months appear to have been anomalies. Police deaths in the remaining months of 2011 were mostly on par with prior years.

So what about this year? Police officer deaths are down 48 percent from last year. Firearms deaths specifically are down 58 percent. And as the watchdog blog Clark County Criminal Cops points out, a significant number of the firearms deaths were actually cops who were shot by other cops.

The police watchdog websites are still out there. The Tea Party and “Don’t Tread on Me” patriot movements are still going strong. You also now have the Occupy movements, which foment a lot of anti-police sentiment (in many cases, justifiably). Gun owners certainly haven’t been melting down their weapons en masse.

And yet officer fatalities and violence against police officers have nosedived. In fact, if the current pace keeps up, we’ll actually hit an all-time low in police fatalities this year. And these are just the raw numbers. They aren’t percentages of the total police force (which has been growing), or police deaths in comparison to deaths in the larger population.

All worth keeping in mind should the numbers slightly tick up again—as any statistics pulled from a large population of people are bound to do from time to time—and the media and police groups again start placing blame, and calling for us to grant the police more powers, less oversight, and bigger guns.

Radley is amazing.

KingNothing

04-11-2012, 05:51 AM

Every time I read an article like that in the original post, I think of a line from a Talib Kweli song:

"Kurt Loder asked me what I'd say to a dead cop's wife
Cops kill my people every day, that's life."

And it isn't an "anti-cop" thing. It's a fact. Some cops will die. More cops will kill other people. It's just how society is today, and probably how it will always be. Knowing that, it's hard not to feel cynical when we're hit with this hero-worship for agents of the state.

LibertyEagle

04-11-2012, 06:17 AM

They are trying to make the case for more gun regulations.

fisharmor

04-11-2012, 06:35 AM

They are trying to make the case for more gun regulations.

During all the years we had tighter regulations in this country, all cops did was push for more regulations under the assumption of increased public safety: and now we can say with certainty that those regulations led to high violent crime rates.

Since cops still push for tight regulations, despite the pretty clear fact that such regulations lead to increased violent deaths of non-cops, I'm not real sure why I should be all that concerned about dead cops that may or may not result from loose regulation of guns.

You want to act like we don't matter, coppers? Don't act so surprised when you get the same treatment from us.

LibertyEagle

04-11-2012, 09:10 AM

During all the years we had tighter regulations in this country, all cops did was push for more regulations under the assumption of increased public safety: and now we can say with certainty that those regulations led to high violent crime rates.

Since cops still push for tight regulations, despite the pretty clear fact that such regulations lead to increased violent deaths of non-cops, I'm not real sure why I should be all that concerned about dead cops that may or may not result from loose regulation of guns.

You want to act like we don't matter, coppers? Don't act so surprised when you get the same treatment from us.

I agree with you. But, that doesn't change my statement.

mport1

04-11-2012, 09:40 AM

Being part of the criminal gang known as "the police" is nowhere near one of the most dangerous jobs. If they are concerned about officer safety, I've got an easy fix for them, stop enforcing victimless "crimes."

azxd

04-11-2012, 11:07 AM

azxd

04-11-2012, 11:10 AM

Did it occur to any one that these officers are getting between citizens and violent criminals more often, and this is a potential reason for the increase in LE deaths ?

Travlyr

04-11-2012, 11:11 AM

Did it occur to any one that these officers are getting between citizens and violent criminals more often, and this is a potential reason for the increase in LE deaths ?
Just like on TV.

Anti Federalist

04-11-2012, 11:16 AM

Did it occur to any one that these officers are getting between citizens and violent criminals more often, and this is a potential reason for the increase in LE deaths ?

What increase in LE deaths?

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 11:20 AM

Did it occur to any one that these officers are getting between citizens and violent criminals more often, and this is a potential reason for the increase in LE deaths ?

http://blog.odmp.org/

Fairfax, Va.- March 2012 experienced a 77% drop in law enforcement line of duty deaths compared to March 2011. So far in 2012, there have been only 25 law enforcement deaths nationwide, putting this year on track to be one of the safest years in law enforcement since the 1940s. Compared to the same time period in 2011, 2012 has seen 29 fewer law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty; a reduction of over 50%.

As in February, the two main contributors to these drastically low numbers are the near absence of vehicular deaths and gunfire deaths, and no single incidents in which multiple line of duty deaths occurred.

Detailed information about each law enforcement fatality can be obtained on the Officer Down Memorial Page at http://www.ODMP.org

Anti Federalist

04-11-2012, 11:27 AM

The Circular Firing Squad Circle Jerk, when a heavily armed thugscrum invades a Mundane's hovel:

According to the National Law Enforcement Officer’s Memorial Fund’s web page, officer deaths by firearms are down 57% from this time last year, and about a third of those fatalities were the result of cops killing other cops.

http://clarkcountycriminalcops.wordpress.com/2012/04/07/that-was-then-this-is-now-the-hypocrisy-of-law-enforcement/

qh4dotcom

04-11-2012, 11:29 AM

Cops have killed more civilians than the reverse.

And the military has killed far more civilians than cops...considering all the death & destruction they have caused, cops look like saints.

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 11:32 AM

The Circular Firing Squad Circle Jerk, when a heavily armed thugscrum invades a Mundane's hovel:

And there you have it. Seems to me something needs to be done about this cop on cop killing. Why hasn't Holder held a press conference?

azxd

04-11-2012, 11:37 AM

As violent crime has decreased across the country, a disturbing trend has emerged: rising numbers of police officers are being killed.
According to statistics compiled (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/officers-feloniously-killed) by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_bureau_of_investigation/index.html?inline=nyt-org), 72 officers were killed by perpetrators in 2011, a 25 percent increase from the previous year and a 75 percent increase from 2008.

The 2011 deaths were the first time that more officers were killed by suspects than car accidents, according to data compiled by the International Association of Chiefs of Police (http://www.theiacp.org/). The number was the highest in nearly two decades, excluding those who died in the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001 and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995.

The F.B.I., which has tracked officer deaths since 1937, paid for a study conducted by John Jay College that found that in many cases the officers were trying to arrest or stop a suspect who had previously been arrested for a violent crime.

SNIPI guess this means nothing ?

tod evans

04-11-2012, 11:46 AM

That is carefully worded cop-speak that could mean anything from a bar fight to false allegations of domestic abuse.

Notice there is no allusion to "convictions"?

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 11:49 AM

I guess this means nothing ?

I guess this means nothing ?

It means that the F.B.I. and Attorney General Eric Holder were trying to stir sentiment into additional Federal funding for L.E. And that even though the statistics are not playing out in 2012 that they will continue to push the meme.

Anti Federalist

04-11-2012, 11:54 AM

I guess this means nothing ?

Yes, it means nothing, statistically insignificant.

The great "War on Cops" isn't, there are less this year than at any time in 60 plus years.

azxd

04-11-2012, 11:59 AM

It means that the F.B.I. and Attorney General Eric Holder were trying to stir sentiment into additional Federal funding for L.E. And that even though the statistics are not playing out in 2012 that they will continue to push the meme.It could also mean ... Violent criminals have no respect for life, and these officers died protecting the innocent from the criminal element.

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 12:02 PM

It could also mean ... Violent criminals have no respect for life, and these officers died protecting the innocent from the criminal element.

Do you have the statistics for that?

azxd

04-11-2012, 12:06 PM

Do you have the statistics for that?NOPE ... It's based on speculation, and is no different than the speculation used when one says never talk to cops ;)

PaulConventionWV

04-11-2012, 12:09 PM

I agree with you. But, that doesn't change my statement.

I don't think he was arguing with you.

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 12:14 PM

NOPE ... It's based on speculation, and is no different than the speculation used when one says never talk to cops ;)

Well for myself that comes with a caveat...

Never talk to the cops...until you have have legal council and/or representation. Always remember, 'anything you say can AND WILL be used against you in a court of law.

PaulConventionWV

04-11-2012, 12:16 PM

It could also mean ... Violent criminals have no respect for life, and these officers died protecting the innocent from the criminal element.

What does it matter? What is the purpose of making sure people know that some cops die while apprehending suspects? That doesn't change the statistical fact that cop deaths are down, and also that they are unconstitutional, regardless of what the death rates are. Why all the fussing over statistics anyway?

azxd

04-11-2012, 12:18 PM

Well for myself that comes with a caveat...

Never talk to the cops...until you have have legal council and/or representation. Always remember, 'anything you say can AND WILL be used against you in a court of law.I'll not argue this, at all ... There is a reason I advise those who carry or own a firearm to put a good lawyer on retainer.

At the same time, telling a rape victim to get a lawyer before speaking to LE is kind of stupid ... YES ?

azxd

04-11-2012, 12:19 PM

What does it matter? What is the purpose of making sure people know that some cops die while apprehending suspects? That doesn't change the statistical fact that cop deaths are down, and also that they are unconstitutional, regardless of what the death rates are. Why all the fussing over statistics anyway?There is no fuss going on ... You might percieve it to be this, but it's just an article, and you can comment/ignore it if you wish.

PaulConventionWV

04-11-2012, 12:20 PM

NOPE ... It's based on speculation, and is no different than the speculation used when one says never talk to cops ;)

Actually, that's based on real tangible, quantifiable information. For instance,

"Anything you say can AND WILL be used against you in a court of law..."

Also, the staggering number of cops killing civilians, which nobody seems to have a statistic for.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that they enforce bad laws and serve as an arm of the state for all its injustice. It also doesn't change the fact that it's an unconstitutional entity.

PaulConventionWV

04-11-2012, 12:22 PM

There is no fuss going on ... You might percieve it to be this, but it's just an article, and you can comment/ignore it if you wish.

Then why the back and forth? It's clear what your intentions were, which is to defend the armed thugs of the state. I call it fussing, I don't know what you call it. The article didn't come here by itself, with all its misleading information.

TheTexan

04-11-2012, 12:24 PM

Kinda hard to get killed when you shoot at anything that might even remotely resemble a threat. Of course... this strategy will only work for so long...

azxd

04-11-2012, 12:25 PM

Then why the back and forth? It's clear what your intentions were, which is to defend the armed thugs of the state. I call it fussing, I don't know what you call it. The article didn't come here by itself, with all its misleading information.Gee ... I'm sorry to be pissing in your Cheerios, by posting an article that you don't agree with.

Like I said,
comment/ignore ... The choice is yours.

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 12:27 PM

I'll not argue this, at all ... There is a reason I advise those who carry or own a firearm to put a good lawyer on retainer.

At the same time, telling a rape victim to get a lawyer before speaking to LE is kind of stupid ... YES ?

And if that rape victim in the incident report,, even though at the time the victim may have been traumatized and not thinking coherently, were to divulge some information that would benefit the assailant at a later time allowing them to get away with the rape then what?

azxd

04-11-2012, 12:33 PM

And if that rape victim in the incident report,, even though at the time the victim may have been traumatized and not thinking coherently, were to divulge some information that would benefit the assailant at a later time allowing them to get away with the rape then what?Time will tell, and each case should be treated as if it is the only one of it's kind ... YES ?

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 12:37 PM

Time will tell, and each case should be treated as if it is the only one of it's kind ... YES ?

Each case that an individual is involved in is 'the only one of it's kind' with regards to them personally. And should be met with knowledge of the system and not blind belief that 'justice' will be served.

PaulConventionWV

04-11-2012, 12:48 PM

Gee ... I'm sorry to be pissing in your Cheerios, by posting an article that you don't agree with.

Like I said,
comment/ignore ... The choice is yours.

I'm commenting. Is it not a type of comment you approve of?

PaulConventionWV

04-11-2012, 12:50 PM

Time will tell, and each case should be treated as if it is the only one of it's kind ... YES ?

No, because the same rules apply in every case. If you talk to cops, you are more likely to have a negative outcome. Talk only to your attorney. The rest will be solved in court. The cops don't need to know anything in order for you to have a positive outcome in court.

azxd

04-11-2012, 12:56 PM

No, because the same rules apply in every case. If you talk to cops, you are more likely to have a negative outcome. Talk only to your attorney. The rest will be solved in court. The cops don't need to know anything in order for you to have a positive outcome in court.Kind of hard to file that assault claim and seek justice in court, without talking to them ... YES ?

AGRP

04-11-2012, 12:58 PM

In my experience, if you don't take the trolls bait and act irrationally the topic will backfire in the trolls face. It looks like that happened.

azxd

04-11-2012, 12:58 PM

Each case that an individual is involved in is 'the only one of it's kind' with regards to them personally. And should be met with knowledge of the system and not blind belief that 'justice' will be served.YET if one follows the advise to never talk to the cops, the chance for justice to be served is diminished to a vigilante act of retaliation ... YES ?

phill4paul

04-11-2012, 01:02 PM

YET if one follows the advise to never talk to the cops, the chance for justice to be served is diminished to a vigilante act of retaliation ... YES ?

Open ended and/or leading questions will not get positive nor negative absolutisms from me.

TheTexan

04-11-2012, 04:20 PM

Azxd, on the off chance you're not just trolling (which seems highly probable at this point), why do you defend the institution responsible for killing innocent people due in many cases to gross negligence, racism, or simple brutality?

These are crimes the cops commit, and if a mundane were to commit them, they'd get sent to jail in a heartbeat. A cop does it, and gets a pat on the back? And that's fine with you?

The "bad apple" argument won't cut it. If it were simply a case of bad apples, these bad apples would be sent to jail, or at the very least fired, which rarely happens.

LibertyEagle

04-11-2012, 06:20 PM

I don't think he was arguing with you.

Yes, someone already pointed that out to me. :p

Anti Federalist

04-11-2012, 10:49 PM

At the same time, telling a rape victim to get a lawyer before speaking to LE is kind of stupid ... YES ?

Not at all.

A very smart move, I think.

azxd

04-12-2012, 09:31 AM

Not at all.

A very smart move, I think.I can understand this, because of your history, as it related to LE ... Those who think they (cops) are all out to get you, should follow your advice.
And this rape victim scenario should expect to be further violated because of the mentality held ... Got it, even if it's not necessarily true ;)

phill4paul

04-12-2012, 09:46 AM

I can understand this, because of your history, as it related to LE ... Those who think they (cops) are all out to get you, should follow your advice.
And this rape victim scenario should expect to be further violated because of the mentality held ... Got it, even if it's not necessarily true ;)

Do you think THIS rape victim might have better results had she had a lawyer...Yes?

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/02/07/rape-victim-sues-harvey-over-untested-rape-kit/

HARVEY, Ill. (CBS) – A 25-year-old woman whose rape kit went untested for 10 years sues the city of Harvey.

..

The key to the case was a 2007 raid on the Harvey Police Department conducted by the Cook County State’s Attorney’s office, the Cook County Sheriff’s office and Illinois State Police. More than 200 untested “rape kits” — evidence collected in sexual assaults — were recovered.

KingNothing

04-12-2012, 09:58 AM

Why wouldn't you want an attorney any time you interact with a police officer? Their job is to find evidence to use in order to build the state's case. You don't know what they're looking for, how they're looking for it, or how they will interperate or mis-hear the things you say. Having a lawyer present limits the likelihood of something bad happening. Why not have one, if you can afford one?

As a rule of thumb, you should never talk to them. Now, certainly, there are scenarios and situations in which you should interact with them as you would any other respectable human becase for the most part they're good people and if you're law abiding and friendly and courteousy towards them, they'll return the favor. But what you stand to gain from such interaction is nothing compared to what you could potentially lose. Generally, the remote possibility of something very bad happening when you speak to the police is outweighs the greater possibility of something insignificant or slightly positive happening when you talk to them.

azxd

04-12-2012, 10:04 AM

Do you think THIS rape victim might have better results had she had a lawyer...Yes?

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/02/07/rape-victim-sues-harvey-over-untested-rape-kit/Excuses exist everywhere ;)

azxd

04-12-2012, 10:06 AM

Now, certainly, there are scenarios and situations in which you should interact with them as you would any other respectable human becase for the most part they're good people and if you're law abiding and friendly and courteousy towards them, they'll return the favor.That's what I'm saying, but some people will still choose to live in fear, and be drawn toward others who seek fear as their denial motivation.

KingNothing

04-12-2012, 10:12 AM

That's what I'm saying, but some people will still choose to live in fear, and be drawn toward others who seek fear as their denial motivation.

If I have the option to not converse with a police officer, I will take that route -- just as I would with any other human. What am I going to do, engage in small talk and say "boy, cold out today, officer!! Say that sure is a nice badge. Welp, see ya later!" ... really? Pointless conversation with anyone brings nothing positive, and with a cop it can lead to a bunch of negative. I've seen people interact pleasantly with police, then tossed to the ground and cuffed when things quickly turned less jovial through no fault of the mundane's. And for what? What could have possibly been gained? Who needs the trivial conversation?

But if I'm forced to interact with them, I'm confident and courteous. Just as I am with everyone else. There's no reason to behave otherwise.