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View Full Version : 110k+ troops on antidepressants/prescription drugs. Link to aberrant behavior?




phill4paul
04-09-2012, 05:52 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-army-medication-20120408,0,1291311.story

A fog of drugs and war
More than 110,000 active-duty Army troops last year took antidepressants, sedatives and other prescription medications. Some see a link to aberrant behavior.


By Kim Murphy, Los Angeles Times
April 7, 2012, 3:24 p.m.
SEATTLE — U.S. Air Force pilot Patrick Burke's day started in the cockpit of a B-1 bomber near the Persian Gulf and proceeded across nine time zones as he ferried the aircraft home to South Dakota.

Every four hours during the 19-hour flight, Burke swallowed a tablet of Dexedrine, the prescribed amphetamine known as "go pills." After landing, he went out for dinner and drinks with a fellow crewman. They were driving back to Ellsworth Air Force Base when Burke began striking his friend in the head.

"Jack Bauer told me this was going to happen — you guys are trying to kidnap me!" he yelled, as if he were a character in the TV show "24."

When the woman giving them a lift pulled the car over, Burke leaped on her and wrestled her to the ground. "Me and my platoon are looking for terrorists," he told her before grabbing her keys, driving away and crashing into a guardrail.

Burke was charged with auto theft, drunk driving and two counts of assault. But in October, a court-martial judge found the young lieutenant not guilty "by reason of lack of mental responsibility" — the almost unprecedented equivalent, at least in modern-day military courts, of an insanity acquittal.

Four military psychiatrists concluded that Burke suffered from "polysubstance-induced delirium" brought on by alcohol, lack of sleep and the 40 milligrams of Dexedrine he was issued by the Air Force.

In a small but growing number of cases across the nation, lawyers are blaming the U.S. military's heavy use of psychotropic drugs for their clients' aberrant behavior and related health problems. Such defenses have rarely gained traction in military or civilian courtrooms, but Burke's case provides the first important indication that military psychiatrists and court-martial judges are not blind to what can happen when troops go to work medicated.

After two long-running wars with escalating levels of combat stress, more than 110,000 active-duty Army troops last year were taking prescribed antidepressants, narcotics, sedatives, antipsychotics and anti-anxiety drugs, according to figures recently disclosed to The Times by the U.S. Army surgeon general. Nearly 8% of the active-duty Army is now on sedatives and more than 6% is on antidepressants — an eightfold increase since 2005.

"We have never medicated our troops to the extent we are doing now.... And I don't believe the current increase in suicides and homicides in the military is a coincidence," said Bart Billings, a former military psychologist who hosts an annual conference on combat stress.

The pharmacy consultant for the Army surgeon general says the military's use of the drugs is comparable to that in the civilian world. "It's not that we're using them more frequently or any differently," said Col. Carol Labadie. "As with any medication, you have to look at weighing the risk versus the benefits of somebody going on a medication."

But the military environment makes regulating the use of prescription drugs a challenge compared with the civilian world, some psychologists say.

Follow-up appointments in the battlefield are often few and far between. Soldiers are sent out on deployment typically with 180 days' worth of medications, allowing them to trade with friends or grab an entire fistful of pills at the end of an anxious day. And soldiers with injuries can easily become dependent on narcotic painkillers.

"The big difference is these are people who have access to loaded weapons, or have responsibility for protecting other individuals who are in harm's way," said Grace Jackson, a former Navy staff psychiatrist who resigned her commission in 2002, in part out of concerns that military psychiatrists even then were handing out too many pills.

For the Army and the Marines, using the drugs has become a wager that whatever problems occur will be isolated and containable, said James Culp, a former Army paratrooper and now a high-profile military defense lawyer. He recently defended an Army private accused of murder, arguing that his mental illness was exacerbated by the antidepressant Zoloft.

"What do you do when 30-80% of the people that you have in the military have gone on three or more deployments, and they are mentally worn out? What do you do when they can't sleep? You make a calculated risk in prescribing these medications," Culp said.

The potential effect on military personnel has special resonance in the wake of several high-profile cases, most notably the one involving Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, accused of murdering 17 civilians in Afghanistan. His attorneys have asked for a list of all medicines the 38-year-old soldier was taking.

"We don't know whether he was or was not on any medicines, which is why [his attorney] has asked to be provided the list of medications," said Richard Adler, a Seattle psychiatrist who is consulting on Bales' defense.

phill4paul
04-09-2012, 09:27 AM
//

belian78
04-09-2012, 10:04 AM
Just more justification to disarm our vetrans. Fuck em up in the head with an immoral war and high powered pharmacuticals, then disarm them saying they arent mentally capable of owning firearms anymore once their usefulness to the machine has passed. Fucking bastards. Excuse my language.

phill4paul
04-09-2012, 10:15 AM
Just more justification to disarm our vetrans. Fuck em up in the head with an immoral war and high powered pharmacuticals, then disarm them saying they arent mentally capable of owning firearms anymore once their usefulness to the machine has passed. Fucking bastards. Excuse my language.

And the big trouble with these pharmaceuticals is that they do not lead to resolution. Just more pharmaceuticals. For over 10 years my nephew has been bouncing around on one form or another. There is rarely follow through and it usually takes a psychotic episode for them to re-evaluate and change meds. But, they never give him the time to ween the old meds out of his system before starting the new which serves to only compound the problem. It is one big mess and until there is corrective action in the prescriptions and treatment we will continue to see incidents like the Sgt. Bayles case and High School/College shootings.

oyarde
04-09-2012, 10:21 AM
I would like to see a list of what it is these Docs are giving these meds for...

phill4paul
04-09-2012, 10:27 AM
I would like to see a list of what it is these Docs are giving these meds for...

You name it oyarde they are the new 'Chicklets.'
Some of these 'cocktails' given are even coming to light as a killer combination...

http://www.cchrint.org/tag/military/


Andrew White, Eric Layne, Nicholas Endicott and Derek Johnson, all in their twenties, were four West Virginia veterans who died in their sleep in early 2008. There were no signs of suicide or of a multi-drug “overdose” leading to coma, as claimed by the Inspector General of the VA. All had been diagnosed “PTSD”–a psychological diagnosis, not a disease (physical abnormality) of the brain. All were on the same prescribed drug cocktail, Seroquel (antipsychotic), Paxil (antidepressant) and Klonopin (benzodiazepine) and all appeared “normal” when they went to sleep

However, the deaths of the ‘Charleston Four’ were probable sudden cardiac deaths (SCD), a sudden, pulseless condition leading to brain death in 4-5 minutes, a survival rate or 3-4%, and not allowing time for transfer to a hospital. Conversely, drug-overdose coma is protracted, allowing time for discovery, diagnosis, transport, treatment, and frequently–survival.

Antipsychotics and antidepressants alone or in combination, are known to cause SCD. Sicouri and Antzelevitch (2008) concluded: (1) “A number of antipsychotic and antidepressant drugs can increase the risk of ventricular arrhythmias and sudden cardiac death,” (2)”Antipsychotics can increase cardiac risk even at low doses whereas antidepressants do it generally at high doses or in the setting of drug combinations.”

FindLiberty
04-09-2012, 10:58 AM
Modern psychotropic drugs bolster the voracity of the classic "Twinkie Defense".

The physical and emotional damage done to our troops in order to prop up the
unconstitutional, floundering fiat dollar (forcing its acceptance by oil producing
countries) is a war crime.

This is so tragic for everyone ...beside the Mil/Industrial complex profiteers. We
need to bring our troops home, not bring the insane war home. Now, how many pill
popping kill-bots does homeland security plan to place on the streets of America?

I hope the vets can be helped and find "peace" jobs.

oyarde
04-09-2012, 11:01 AM
I hope they can find jobs too , but have no idea where or doing what ....

belian78
04-09-2012, 11:05 AM
I would imagine any job that doesnt have them in a high tension situation constantly would be a relief. It may not be one that would be all too glorious or prestigious, but something like middle management would allow them to readjust. Either that, or manual labor would as well. Glorious, no.. but would be what their mind would need to decompress and get off the meds.

phill4paul
04-09-2012, 11:14 AM
I would imagine any job that doesnt have them in a high tension situation constantly would be a relief. It may not be one that would be all too glorious or prestigious, but something like middle management would allow them to readjust. Either that, or manual labor would as well. Glorious, no.. but would be what their mind would need to decompress and get off the meds.

Or perhaps farm work. There are many community farms that could lend to this. Also, I would suggest any job which lends itself to helping fellow humans out. Charity organizations have full time/part time paid positions. I believe that helping others would go a long way to restoring a damaged psyche.

Jingles
04-09-2012, 12:10 PM
What get's lumped as "prescription drugs" is always way too vague and doesn't even acknowledge the fact that drugs effect everyone differently. Prescriptions drugs are not evil. There are some like SSRI's, SNRIS, Antipsychotics that can do more harm than good for people that truly don't need them. They do work for some people though. For me the drugs that have always actually helped me have been the "addictive" one's like benzos, opiates, etc... (at least in treating what I wanted to be treated). If I was tired, stimulants were best. If I was in pain, depressed opiates were amazing (I really think opiates are great for depression, and there have been minor studies done using suboxone for this reason, but not much is looked into it because opioids are addictive.) Benzos are fantastic for anxiety. I know nothing that has ever treated it better for me.

This is back in my drug using days, but meh. I just think there is a slight irrational fear of "prescription drugs" in general on this site. I think the main issue with prescription drugs is people just don't take the effort to go look up what they are putting into their body/side effects/and just trust their doctor as some all knowing beings. Also I think people view pills as "safe". This is why there are more overdoses with prescription drugs. I'm sure if you did a study of let's say users of heroin vs. users of oxycodone regarding them trying to "Be careful" regarding how much they dose and only do what their opiate tolerance allows; I'm sure you'd find heroin users are much more careful.

Namely, I really don't think drugs are the main issue here. I think the main issue is the fact that we have people in unjust wars and under the stresses of war.

I also have a more slightly positive view on things like stimulants, opioids, benzos, alcohol, dissociatives, etc.. than the majority of people do though as a former user of these type of drugs. When I did drugs I never went crazy and attacked people, I never stole things, etc... I just worked and did drugs all the time. Actually not many people really even knew that I did do drugs. There are pros and cons from my viewpoint regarding substances. One of the major cons is that I just spent a lot of money.

phill4paul
04-09-2012, 12:28 PM
To some extent I completely agree with you Jingles. I don't have an 'irrational fear' of prescription drugs. I certainly think that in many cases they do good depending on the condition and treatment.
I would have to say that the 'fear' that I have is that they are not being dispensed in a rational manner with frequent follow-ups and re-examination. This with regards to SSRI's, SNRI's and Anti-psychotics.
I think the main point that you made, and extremely relevant, is that drugs no matter the 'class' affect everyone in different ways. For those with damaged psyches to begin with it becomes an even greater point to be made.

Philhelm
04-09-2012, 12:44 PM
This is back in my drug using days, but meh. I just think there is a slight irrational fear of "prescription drugs" in general on this site. I think the main issue with prescription drugs is people just don't take the effort to go look up what they are putting into their body/side effects/and just trust their doctor as some all knowing beings.

I speak for myself, but my concern is less about the chemicals and more about the use of psychology and its implications. More and more people are being deemed mentally defective, and pseudo-science is used to discredit or take the rights away from segments of our population. Psychology has always been used as a tool to repress dissent.

Jingles
04-09-2012, 01:07 PM
To some extent I completely agree with you Jingles. I don't have an 'irrational fear' of prescription drugs. I certainly think that in many cases they do good depending on the condition and treatment.
I would have to say that the 'fear' that I have is that they are not being dispensed in a rational manner with frequent follow-ups and re-examination. This with regards to SSRI's, SNRI's and Anti-psychotics.
I think the main point that you made, and extremely relevant, is that drugs no matter the 'class' affect everyone in different ways. For those with damaged psyches to begin with it becomes an even greater point to be made.

I really wish I would see this brought up more on this site. SSRI's, SNRI's, and etc... are given out way too much and many are deemed as a "cure all", by psychiatrists. I went to a psychiatrist for several months namely for anxiety issues about a year and half ago already knowing what works best for treating my anxiety, but they just kept giving all these ssri's and etc... that I knew were not the correct treatment so I just stopped going. I didn't even take them. I mean SSRI's I brought up on these forums a lot, but more of everything you said in your post.

In regards to troops, I think the main issue is just war. War is hell. All you have to do is look at throughout all of history to understand that horrible things occur in war. I don't think troops killing villagers in Aghanistan unjustly (After having some kind of mental breakdown or mental issue caused by what they are subjected to on a day to day basis is anything new). Just look at Vietnam (or any other war). When you pit groups of men against eachother to fight to the death there is going to be some bad things that happen when under the stress of such a situation (or mental problems caused, etc...). So I think the main cure is to end these wars and attempt to the best of our ability to help the men who now have mental issues because of what our government subjected them too.

In regards to treatment of ailments, Medical marijuana helps some people (most certainly not me though). Some people just need therapy. Others respond more to other drugs. It's just a large combination of subsidies, the government being so inbed with the medical industry, and the drug war that causes most of our ills in the country regarding drugs. People have no incentive to research drugs on their own.

In regards to recreational drug use: I've known many of people in the past that used oxycodone/hydrocodone/morphine/fentanyl/oxymorphone/hydromorphone/etc... recreationally but vehemently denounced heroin as some evil without even realizing they are within the same class of drugs (opioids/opiates). I'm just a really big advocate of harm reduction (not the government should hand out free needles type of course), but via voluntary means. I spent a lot of my time when in my drug using days (goddamn has it really been almost two years now?) on forums/sites explaining to first time users what safe dosages to take/understanding tolerance, how to do x, y, and z. How to extract the APAP from their pills which is dangerous for your liver at high dosages, etc... I'm not really against drug use as much as I'm against uninformed drug use. Some people might abhor drug use at all but accept the war on drugs is a failure. Other people want to end the war on drugs for all the right reasons, but also because they enjoy drugs. I'm really neutral on drug use. It's a personal decision and I think of someone no less if they use drugs but more of how they are as a human being. My view was always, "People are going to do it anyways so I might as well help them not be an idiot".

phill4paul
04-09-2012, 01:30 PM
In regards to troops, I think the main issue is just war. War is hell. All you have to do is look at throughout all of history to understand that horrible things occur in war.

I agree. I also think to some extent is 'Just' war. As in the 'Just' war principles. A psyche may find it hard to kill another human but when it is for defence somehow the mind seems to reconcile the nature of the killing (for most). What we have required of our troops is anything but 'Just' war doctrine and I believe it is telling.


So I think the main cure is to end these wars and attempt to the best of our ability to help the men who now have mental issues because of what our government subjected them too.

Certainly 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of 'cure.'


In regards to treatment of ailments, Medical marijuana helps some people (most certainly not me though). Some people just need therapy. Others respond more to other drugs. It's just a large combination of subsidies, the government being so inbed with the medical industry, and the drug war that causes most of our ills in the country regarding drugs. People have no incentive to research drugs on their own.

Agree 100%.


In regards to recreational drug use: I've known many of people in the past that used oxycodone/hydrocodone/morphine/fentanyl/oxymorphone/hydromorphone/etc... recreationally but vehemently denounced heroin as some evil without even realizing they are within the same class of drugs (opioids/opiates). I'm just a really big advocate of harm reduction (not the government should hand out free needles type of course), but via voluntary means. I spent a lot of my time when in my drug using days (goddamn has it really been almost two years now?) on forums/sites explaining to first time users what safe dosages to take/understanding tolerance, how to do x, y, and z. How to extract the APAP from their pills which is dangerous for your liver at high dosages, etc... I'm not really against drug use as much as I'm against uninformed drug use. Some people might abhor drug use at all but accept the war on drugs is a failure. Other people want to end the war on drugs for all the right reasons, but also because they enjoy drugs. I'm really neutral on drug use. It's a personal decision and I think of someone no less if they use drugs but more of how they are as a human being. My view was always, "People are going to do it anyways so I might as well help them not be an idiot".

Congratulations! I hope all is going well. I am not against drug use either. If informed and one knows ones 'self.' There was always the old saying 'never trip if you are not in the right frame of mind.' I found that to be sage advise. Know oneself. Know what is needed to correct ones 'ills.' In knowledge is power. Power over external as well as internal influence.