A liberty solution to parents and their children

[John F Kennedy III]

As you may know, I am terrible at making up names for my own threads.

What is the liberty minded solution to parents right to raise their children in whatever manner they see fit? Where do we draw the line? How should we handle child abuse? What is considered child abuse?

What gets me on an emotional level is what to do with parents who physically abuse their children. And parents who allow their children to become morbidly overweight. I do not support the federal government stepping in ever. I don't support the state ever taking children from their parents. But clearly there are situations where something needs to be done. What should be done?

I have trouble with this when trying to convert people and when trying to explain liberty in general. This question has come up several times.

Examples:

What about parents smoking in a car or house with their children in there with them?

What about parents who allow their children to get morbidly overweight?

What about parents who physically abuse their children?

[Pisces]

What about parents who allow their children to get morbidly overweight?



Right off the top of my head, I can't think of good answers to your questions right now. But as far as the morbidly obese kid situation goes, I think the first thing to do is determine what is the real cause of this problem. I was a young child in the 1970s. I dont remember ever seeing extremely overweight kids. Sure there were chubby kids, but not like you see on the news today. I dont know that parents are that much worse today than they were back then. Also, we didnt have all of these food allergies like peanut allergies, etc. back then as well. I do think we need to look seriously at what has changed in kids' diets and environment since the '70s/'80s. I know people blame video games and junk food, (as if those sort of things didn't exist back then), but I'm not sure that explains young children getting to over 200 lbs.

[pcgame]

..

[John F Kennedy III]

Right off the top of my head, I can't think of good answers to your questions right now. But as far as the morbidly obese kid situation goes, I think the first thing to do is determine what is the real cause of this problem. I was a young child in the 1970s. I dont remember ever seeing extremely overweight kids. Sure there were chubby kids, but not like you see on the news today. I dont know that parents are that much worse today than they were back then. Also, we didnt have all of these food allergies like peanut allergies, etc. back then as well. I do think we need to look seriously at what has changed in kids' diets and environment since the '70s/'80s. I know people blame video games and junk food, (as if those sort of things didn't exist back then), but I'm not sure that explains young children getting to over 200 lbs.

What is being put in our food, and a lack of education of this, is what has led to kids and all of us getting fatter. And we stay indoors in front of the computer/tv/video games instead of going outside and playing.

[John F Kennedy III]

Stefan Molyneux actually focuses on parenting type stuff and children.

Can you give me a video or quote or something?

[Pisces]

What is being put in our food, and a lack of education of this, is what has led to kids and all of us getting fatter. And we stay indoors in front of the computer/tv/video games instead of going outside and playing.

Let me clarify what I said a little better. Kids ate sweets and drank soda and played Atari or watched tv back then too. I'm not denying that those activities will cause a person to gain weight. But what I think is new and strange is children under twelve weighing 250 and 300 lbs. You would think a child's metabolism would make that very hard to achieve. This leads me to believe that there may be additives to junk food that have been introduced in the last 20 years that harm childrens' metabolisms. I know that excess stress hormones in the body can increase appetite. Maybe this is a factor as well.

I'm also not denying all responsibility on the part of the parents. I just think this phenomenom needs to be investigated more beyond the cliches I normally see listed in most news articles.

[Xhin]

This leads me to believe that there may be additives to junk food that have been introduced in the last 20 years that harm childrens' metabolisms. I know that excess stress hormones in the body can increase appetite. Maybe this is a factor as well.

One thing I remember reading somewhere was that the hormones given to cows was causing children to reach puberty earlier.

Of course there's all kinds of shit happening with our food but most people think the solution is, well, "The FDA isn't doing a good enough job, we need more regulation!" though the problem is that regulation is giving giant food companies basically a blank check to do whatever and hurting smaller farmers and food producers.

[John F Kennedy III]

Let me clarify what I said a little better. Kids ate sweets and drank soda and played Atari or watched tv back then too. I'm not denying that those activities will cause a person to gain weight. But what I think is new and strange is children under twelve weighing 250 and 300 lbs. You would think a child's metabolism would make that very hard to achieve. This leads me to believe that there may be additives to junk food that have been introduced in the last 20 years that harm childrens' metabolisms. I know that excess stress hormones in the body can increase appetite. Maybe this is a factor as well.

I'm also not denying all responsibility on the part of the parents. I just think this phenomenom needs to be investigated more beyond the cliches I normally see listed in most news articles.

There absolutely are more and new chemicals in our food that weren't there in the 70's and 80's. Hopefully another member can help with the specifics on which chemicals.

[pcgame]

..

[John F Kennedy III]

I'll link you to 2 playlists from his YouTube channel.

The Bomb in the Brain: The True Roots of Human Violence
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3F2CF45EEB95C80&feature=plcp


Psychology Interviews
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2EE3F00F2C6D4504&feature=plcp

He also has several videos through out his channel.

Thank you. I bookmarked them and will definitely check him out when i get the chance :)

[donnay]

Let me clarify what I said a little better. Kids ate sweets and drank soda and played Atari or watched tv back then too. I'm not denying that those activities will cause a person to gain weight. But what I think is new and strange is children under twelve weighing 250 and 300 lbs. You would think a child's metabolism would make that very hard to achieve. This leads me to believe that there may be additives to junk food that have been introduced in the last 20 years that harm childrens' metabolisms. I know that excess stress hormones in the body can increase appetite. Maybe this is a factor as well.

I'm also not denying all responsibility on the part of the parents. I just think this phenomenom needs to be investigated more beyond the cliches I normally see listed in most news articles.

I posted this in another thread but it definitely bears repeating...


MSG linked to weight gain (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/27/us-msg-linked-weight-gain-idUSTRE74Q5SJ20110527)

Aspartame and Weight Gain (http://marystuart.hubpages.com/hub/Diet-Colas-and-Weight-Gain)

High-Fructose Corn Syrup Prompts Considerably More Weight Gain, Researchers Find (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322121115.htm)

BPA, MSG, GMO and Other Toxins in Our Food and Water Cause Obesity (http://occupycorporatism.com/bpa-msg-gmo-and-other-toxins-in-our-food-and-water-cause-obesity/)

New Study: BPA Causes Weight-Gain (http://www.thewellnesswire.com/Purify-Your-Home/new-study-bpa-causes-weight-gain.html)

Cut calories and the body fights it all the way... you won’t lose weight, you’ll just become malnourished (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/health/health/3073295/Expert-claims-dieting-is-a-waste-of-time.html)

Counting calories may be a waste of time? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-201483/Counting-calories-waste-time.html)

Counting Calories is Unnatural (http://slowburnfitness.com/counting-calories-is-unnatural/)

Why calorie counting makes you fat (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1200993/Why-calorie-counting-makes-fat.html)

Trying To Lose Weight? Counting Calories Could be a Waste of Your Time (http://blog.mydot.com/post/Weight-Loss-Counting-Calories.aspx)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdMjKEncojQ



I also think a lot more parents need to educated themselves about what ingredients are in vaccines. Did you know they put MSG and Aspartame in vaccines?

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html


Aspartame is nothing but genetically engineered E-coli feces.

"Aspartame breaks down into several chemicals in the human body, namely formaldehyde (that breaks down into methanol, which is wood alcohol), aspartic acid, phenylalanine. The 1976 Groliers encyclopedia states cancer cannot live without phenylalanine.

Phenylalanine makes up 50% of aspartame.

According to the patent, in the manufacture of aspartame, they use genetically engineered e-coli bacteria in big vats.

The genetically modified e-coli bacteria’s waste product (their feces) is phenylalanine; they are put into a centrifuge and it separates the bacteria from their feces. Their feces, the phenylanaline, is then mixed with the other components, methanol and aspartic acid to create the artificial sweetener aspartame."

http://www.rolls-on.com/2010/10/17/diabetes/aspartame-its-killing-us-sweetly/

[donnay]

One thing I remember reading somewhere was that the hormones given to cows was causing children to reach puberty earlier.

Of course there's all kinds of shit happening with our food but most people think the solution is, well, "The FDA isn't doing a good enough job, we need more regulation!" though the problem is that regulation is giving giant food companies basically a blank check to do whatever and hurting smaller farmers and food producers.


Bisphenol-A is an estrogen mimicker. It is a chemical found in plastics. They use it to line cans with--soda and canned goods. It's in the ink in receipts. It's practically in EVERYTHING! The best thing to do it keep away from plastics, as much as possible.

Genetically modified soy beans are also an estrogen mimicker. Soy is nearly all prepared foods. It's in vegetable oil.

These estrogen mimickers cause little girls to reach puberty by 10 years old. It causes little boys to have enlarged breasts. It lowers the men testosterone and can cause women to have breast and cervix cancers.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

As you may know, I am terrible at making up names for my own threads.

What is the liberty minded solution to parents right to raise their children in whatever manner they see fit? Where do we draw the line? How should we handle child abuse? What is considered child abuse?

What gets me on an emotional level is what to do with parents who physically abuse their children. And parents who allow their children to become morbidly overweight. I do not support the federal government stepping in ever. I don't support the state ever taking children from their parents. But clearly there are situations where something needs to be done. What should be done?

I have trouble with this when trying to convert people and when trying to explain liberty in general. This question has come up several times.

Examples:

What about parents smoking in a car or house with their children in there with them?

What about parents who allow their children to get morbidly overweight?

What about parents who physically abuse their children?

Even under today's crazy standards smoking in a car with a child is not considered child abuse... but I definetly agree it's in poor taste.

Parents who let their children get obese is really the same problem as the smoking situation... this isn't child abuse in my opinion, but definetly bad parenting. If it bothers you how they are raising their children you should confront them and try to educate them.

Pysically abusing anyone, let alone a child, is never a good thing to do. If it came to someone's attention that a child was being abused, they should report them to the proper authorities.

[Kluge]

Bisphenol-A is an estrogen mimicker. It is a chemical found in plastics. They use it to line cans with--soda and canned goods. It's in the ink in receipts. It's practically in EVERYTHING! The best thing to do it keep away from plastics, as much as possible.

Genetically modified soy beans are also an estrogen mimicker. Soy is nearly all prepared foods. It's in vegetable oil.

These estrogen mimickers cause little girls to reach puberty by 10 years old. It causes little boys to have enlarged breasts. It lowers the men testosterone and can cause women to have breast and cervix cancers.

But BPA has been used in plastics/packaging/canning for over 60 years. I'm not saying I don't avoid it, because I do when possible, but that can't be the smoking gun (and I know you probably aren't claiming it is). I grew up eating canned vegetables, and was rail thin my whole life except during pregnancy/post-pregnancy. My brother was "husky" and given his eating habits, it was most likely because of his fondness for starch and lack of physical activity.

[teacherone]

Sitting in public school 8 hours a day can't be good for anyone's health.

[John F Kennedy III]

But BPA has been used in plastics/packaging/canning for over 60 years. I'm not saying I don't avoid it, because I do when possible, but that can't be the smoking gun (and I know you probably aren't claiming it is). I grew up eating canned vegetables, and was rail thin my whole life except during pregnancy/post-pregnancy. My brother was "husky" and given his eating habits, it was most likely because of his fondness for starch and lack of physical activity.

I'm positive it is in more things and in higher amounts than it was 60 years ago. Just saying.

[Kluge]

I'm positive it is in more things and in higher amounts than it was 60 years ago. Just saying.

Perhaps. But if it's a big part of the problem, it should have reared it's ugly head in the 60's-70's-80's when people ate more canned food than they do today, yet people were much thinner then. As I said, I do want to cut it out as much as possible, but it's almost impossible at this particular point, and I don't think that's the only thing contributing to what is making people fat.

For instance, I'm making a bad-ass lasagna for dinner tonight, and I'm using canned tomatoes. I'm also going to make ricotta cheese from milk that was in a plastic gallon container. The pork ribs and ground beef were packaged in plastic/styrofoam. The oregano is in a plastic shaker.

I mean, I could go out and slaughter a cow and a pig, milk a cow into a glass container and wait until July when my tomatoes are ripe and the oregano is grown--but that's just not very reasonable at this point--and even if I did, if I eat a whole pan of lasagna, I'm going to gain weight, regardless.

[No Free Beer]

Bisphenol-A is an estrogen mimicker. It is a chemical found in plastics. They use it to line cans with--soda and canned goods. It's in the ink in receipts. It's practically in EVERYTHING! The best thing to do it keep away from plastics, as much as possible.

Genetically modified soy beans are also an estrogen mimicker. Soy is nearly all prepared foods. It's in vegetable oil.

These estrogen mimickers cause little girls to reach puberty by 10 years old. It causes little boys to have enlarged breasts. It lowers the men testosterone and can cause women to have breast and cervix cancers.

Still doesn't address the parents role in allowing their children to eat this shit.