What if giving up on this effort would mean giving up on our nation?

[Rocco]

What if we are idly sitting by as our nation spirals towards martial law? What if Obama has every intention of using NDAA against dissenters? What if the National Defense Resource Preparedness act is the government trying to exploit the inevitable collapse to take over the economy? What if the massive deficits we have been accumulating are looked at in 100 years as the beginning of the death of this great nation? What if Obama is able to successfully eliminate the Supreme Court as a legitimate check on the executive branch? What if we have more terrorists, more hatred of America and more foreign enemies as a result of our insane foreign policy? What if they find it necessary next to repeal the 2nd amendment, as they have the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 10th amendments already?

What if this election is our last chance? What if we look back and cry that we relegated our children to poverty, though we had the chance to stop it? What if there really is a major attack on an American city as a result of the hatred we incite? What if they continue to take away our civil liberties at the rate they have? What if we all did something about it? What if, rather, our nation DEPENDS on us doing something about it? What if we don't have til 2016 to make the changes necessary to prevent the collapse? What if the nation depends on a successful Ron Paul presidential run, be it republican or 3rd party? What if, despite the affect we can have on congress, a Romney or Obama presidency would strengthen executive control to make our gains worthless? What if our revolution is fought out of the fact that we have no choice anymore? What if this fight that we are involved in changes America, and all of these concerns are addressed? What if, rather then looking back at the death of our nation, we could look back at a recovery? What if this is the beginning of a revolution of freedom which will sweep through this country? I hope we can make this happen....our nation depends on it.

[alucard13mmfmj]

well, nothing last forever. all great empires fall.

it is unfortunate that we live in a time where USA might fall. >.<

[CTRattlesnake]

Amen

We need the good Dr in the white house this year...before its too late

[TheGrinch]

Outstanding post for anyone who needs a reminder of what's at stake here. If we quit trying, then there is no doubt we lose.

[KingNothing]

I don't think this election is as important as starting brush fires of freedom. We'll win in the long run because we have to. We'll continue to fight because we have no other option.

[PolicyReader]

I've been wondering similar things (and also +rep)

https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck
Ben Swann asked this today


Judge Andrew Napolitano ask this before him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQJHTJlW0bM


and Representative Ron Paul even before that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_IUwwGq-A

I too will ask it, I will ask it right now.

What if these men are right? What if what they've feared has come to pass? What if it could get worse? What if we give up on 2012?
What if Ron Paul is never president? What if individuals are literally being killed by the status quo? What if the Constitution is practiced less by our government every day? What if our nation bears this festering wound for another four years? What if we're running out of time?

"What happens if my concerns are completely unfounded? Nothing.
But what happens if my concerns are justified and ignored? Nothing good.
...and I yield back the balance of my time." ~ Ron Paul

[liberalnurse]

T2P

[cheapseats]

What if we are idly sitting by as our nation spirals towards martial law?

We are. It is.

[Rocco]

There will be an America after the election is over, of this I have no doubt. However, the human tragedy that will occur at the height of the collapse will be so horrible that we will be fundamentally changed as a nation.


I don't think this election is as important as starting brush fires of freedom. We'll win in the long run because we have to. We'll continue to fight because we have no other option.

[John F Kennedy III]

If we give up on this effort we are giving up on our nation.

[alucard13mmfmj]

I don't think this election is as important as starting brush fires of freedom. We'll win in the long run because we have to. We'll continue to fight because we have no other option.

the thing i worry about is.. will people make the same mistake in 2016?? seem's people have been voting for the "popular" or "flavor of the month" candidate. will they vote for liberty or forget everything from 2012 and vote for establishment again?

it seems that the majority of the population might fall in the above category.

[GuerrillaXXI]

I don't think this election is as important as starting brush fires of freedom. We'll win in the long run because we have to. We'll continue to fight because we have no other option.That's right. Regardless of what happens with the good doctor's candidacy, freedom-minded people will remain. What we need to do is conquer our fear of death. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Death is inevitable for everyone and will come sooner than we think, but slavery is never inevitable. No one can enslave a person who isn't afraid of death, or who is at least more afraid of subjugation than of death.

If jackbooted thugs come to drag you off to some torture chamber or hellhole because you're a political dissident or have committed some other non-crime, it's time to let loose. Do whatever it takes to stop them. Be prepared in advance. If you take out one or more of them before they kill you, the glorious victory is yours, and their mission -- to capture or kill you with impunity -- will be a dismal failure. Eventually the surviving thugs will die too, whether of old age or at the hands of other freedom-fighters like yourself. But when they die, they'll die as cowards who served evil and corrupt masters like trained dogs. You'll die a hero who served a noble cause, even if you get no parades or public adulation.

[noneedtoaggress]

This "nation" doesn't want to be saved. Politics as usual with all the repercussions that comes with it.

[KingNothing]

the thing i worry about is.. will people make the same mistake in 2016??


Yes, but less people will do so. We'll win more over at that time too, because people like you and I will have learned from this Ron Paul campaign, and we'll have gleaned better ways to communicate the message to others. This is a long game. It doesn't end in 2012, or 2016, or 2020.



seem's people have been voting for the "popular" or "flavor of the month" candidate. will they vote for liberty or forget everything from 2012 and vote for establishment again?

it seems that the majority of the population might fall in the above category.

We have to change what is popular. People will fall in line after that. Our duty is to be as moral as possible, to be as productive as possible. We need to be shining examples of Liberty in action, and we need to show -in the most humble manner possible- everyone else that this is The Way. When we do that, we can rest.

[KingNothing]

This "nation" doesn't want to be saved. Politics as usual with all the repercussions that comes with it.

Really? Your neighbors don't want freedom? Your parents don't? Your friends don't?

I don't buy it. Everyone wants what we offer. They just don't realize it yet, because they're busy being productive human beings, or conditioned to rely on the state.

[KingNothing]

That's right. Regardless of what happens with the good doctor's candidacy, freedom-minded people will remain. What we need to do is conquer our fear of death. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Death is inevitable for everyone and will come sooner than we think, but slavery is never inevitable. No one can enslave a person who isn't afraid of death, or who is at least more afraid of subjugation than of death.

If jackbooted thugs come to drag you off to some torture chamber or hellhole because you're a political dissident or have committed some other non-crime, it's time to let loose. Do whatever it takes to stop them. Be prepared in advance. If you take out one or more of them before they kill you, the glorious victory is yours, and their mission -- to capture or kill you with impunity -- will be a dismal failure. Eventually the surviving thugs will die too, whether of old age or at the hands of other freedom-fighters like yourself. But when they die, they'll die as cowards who served evil and corrupt masters like trained dogs. You'll die a hero who served a noble cause, even if you get no parades or public adulation.

Awesome post, bud.

Have you ever read The Way or the Tao te Ching?

[Feeding the Abscess]

What if continuing this effort ensures the destruction of civilized society?

There comes a point when playing the political game becomes self-destructive; I'm starting to honestly believe that if we coalesce behind anyone less pure than Ron, we're going to drive ourselves right off the proverbial cliff - and nobody on the national political stage comes anywhere close to Ron in his defense and promotion of liberty.

[cheapseats]

That's right. Regardless of what happens with the good doctor's candidacy, freedom-minded people will remain. What we need to do is conquer our fear of death. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Death is inevitable for everyone and will come sooner than we think, but slavery is never inevitable. No one can enslave a person who isn't afraid of death, or who is at least more afraid of subjugation than of death.

If jackbooted thugs come to drag you off to some torture chamber or hellhole because you're a political dissident or have committed some other non-crime, it's time to let loose. Do whatever it takes to stop them. Be prepared in advance. If you take out one or more of them before they kill you, the glorious victory is yours, and their mission -- to capture or kill you with impunity -- will be a dismal failure. Eventually the surviving thugs will die too, whether of old age or at the hands of other freedom-fighters like yourself. But when they die, they'll die as cowards who served evil and corrupt masters like trained dogs. You'll die a hero who served a noble cause, even if you get no parades or public adulation.


No one gets out alive.

It is not a question of WHETHER people get killed. People ARE getting killed. It is a question of WHICH people get killed.

"At the end of the day"...as Talking Heads never tire of saying to connote thorough analysis...despite their "calling" elections with 1% of votes reporting...at the end of the day, each person has to ask him/herself: HOW DO I WANT TO LIVE? HOW DO I WANT TO DIE? HOW DO I WANT TO BE REMEMBERED?

If "we" STAY THE COURSE, I believe that in the fullness of time, Posterity will talk smack about American Rank & File the same way we talk smack about Hitler-era Germans.

WHY DID THEY GO ALONG UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE? THERE WERE SO MANY MORE OF THEM.

#WinstonChurchill: The whole history of the world is summed up in the fact that, when nations are strong, they are not always just, and when they wish to be just, they are no longer strong.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Everyone wants what we offer. They just don't realize it yet

+1

This is probably our last chance so quitting isn't an option! Fight till the end! That's all we CAN do!

[cheapseats]

+1

This is probably our last chance so quitting isn't an option! Fight till the end! That's all we CAN do!


FIGHTING UNTIL THE END is not the same thing as STAYING THE COURSE.

[cheapseats]

the thing i worry about is.. will people make the same mistake in 2016??


Hmmm, lemme think.

DONE.

[Cabal]

What does 'giving up on our nation' even mean?

[Constitutional Paulicy]

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk79/CowboysMedia/HelpusDrPaul.gif

[ProIndividual]

I gave up on nations a long time ago...as nationalism leads to statism (as in nation states). Everyone would be better off if they gave up on nationalism and statism. Nationalism is just a pseudo-religion where the state is the false idol (and it demands blood sacrifice BTW)...and it's just a form of collectivism.

[cheapseats]

I gave up on nations a long time ago...as nationalism leads to statism (as in nation states).


Is it ONE WORLD ORDER you favor, or ANARCHY?





Everyone would be better off if they gave up on nationalism and statism.


Kumbaya, m'Lord, kumbaya.





Nationalism is just a pseudo-religion where the state is the false idol

By that logic, separate COMPANIES are false idols. Why not just ONE, BIG, HAPPY CORPORATION?




...(and it demands blood sacrifice BTW)...


The "State" does NOT demand blood sacrifices.

The PEOPLE leading/running/controlling the States/Companies are demanding them . . . AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE ACQUIESCING.






...and it's just a form of collectivism.

When ya git right down to it...SO IS HUMANITY.

[TruckinMike]

I gave up on nations a long time ago...as nationalism leads to statism (as in nation states). Everyone would be better off if they gave up on nationalism and statism. Nationalism is just a pseudo-religion where the state is the false idol (and it demands blood sacrifice BTW)...and it's just a form of collectivism.Yes, and they knew that a long, long time ago. Socialist(s), Francis (and Edward) Bellamy understood that thoroughly.
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_ with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg/220px-Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_ with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg

[cheapseats]

I gave up on nations a long time ago...



Is it ONE WORLD ORDER you favor, or ANARCHY?



Is Ron Paul's RESTORE AMERICA angle fundamentally flawed? Shall we reject the premise and push to MERGE ALL COUNTRIES to "eliminate" divisions and animosities?

THIS is another debate y'all need to have.

'Cuz in the same way that some Ron Paul Supporters are swinging for Ron Paul PRIMARILY WITH AN EYE ON ADVANCING A CREW OF OTHER REPUBLICANS, some are swinging for Ron Paul STRICTLY to be freer to MAKE MORE MONEY (and otherwise do as they please).

Make no mistake, y'all gots some LIBERTINES jumbled up with yer LIBERTARIANS.

"The Market" is above 13,000. What would it be if you back out APPLE and CHINESE PURCHASES OF AMERICAN STUFF (notably cars and real estate) and DERIVATIVE SECURITIES (particularly #CreditDefaultSwaps)?

[azxd]

False hope exists everywhere.

[cheapseats]

False hope exists everywhere.


HOPE SPRINGS ETERNALLY.

Some is steeped in PLAN & PROBABILITY.

Some is steeped in WISHFUL THINKING.

[jayrehme]

I disagree with the original post. It uses the same "scare" tactics as the current dictators. But yes, this country should and will strive for more freedom. The first law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases, therefore the human race will always strive for more freedom.

[rideurlightning]

Unfortunately, many have already given up.

[cheapseats]

What does 'giving up on our nation' even mean?


"Path of least resistance" (which we are ON) portends GLOBAL HOMOGENEITY, with a tremendous (and tremendously "well" ordered) WORKER BEE POPULATION that lives/works/EXISTS chiefly to float the boats of Aristocracy (Rich) and Nobles (Officials), and to save the Abject Poor from drowning.

Not slaves, 'cuz they're gettin' paid minimum wages. Not serfs, no hope of satisfying/completing a required workload such that an industrious serf might GET AHEAD. A "modern" hybrid caste: SLERFS.

Wiki:


Serfdom is the status of peasants under feudalism, specifically relating to Manorialism. It was a condition of bondage or modified slavery which developed primarily during the High Middle Ages in Europe and lasted to the mid-19th century. Serfdom included the labor of serfs occupying a plot of land owned by a Lord of the Manor in return for protection and justice and the right to exploit certain fields within the manor to maintain their own subsistence.


Give it ALL to us . . . in our wisdom and benevolence, we will dole back as we see fit.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Unfortunately, many have already given up.

Can you blame them. Seems we cant take back the country by following the rule of law, since that rule only applies to us and not "THEM". So it appears more and more likely we will have to take it back by force.

[jayrehme]

Can you blame them. Seems we cant take back the country by following the rule of law, since that rule only applies to us and not "THEM". So it appears more and more likely we will have to take it back by force.

force is not needed.... just create an alternative. The only thing giving them power is their "money" and its perceived value over their brainwashed masses. We need to take them out at the knees by not supporting anything they offer and to continue spreading the message of freedom. Create and support only freedom loving services and products.

[cheapseats]

Can you blame them. Seems we cant take back the country by following the rule of law, since that rule only applies to us and not "THEM".


In my worldview, that INCLUDES trying to "beat 'em by joining 'em" in the Republican Party . . . read that, BY ALIGNING WITH THE FLIP SIDE OF THE COINAGE USED IN MONEYCHANGING IN THE TEMPLE OF MAN'S LORDSHIP OVER MAN.

[JK/SEA]

brb...i'll go make some coffee and sandwiches.

[zach]

what if everything you say doesn't come true? what if it's easier to be positive?

[SaulPaulinsky]

It's an important question. I've thought about where I would go if living here no longer was attractive.

[cheapseats]

what if everything you say doesn't come true? what if it's easier to be positive?


Then we all live happily ever after.

The End.

[TheGrinch]

what if everything you say doesn't come true? what if it's easier to be positive?
"What Happens if my concerns are completely unfounded? Nothing. But what happens if my concerns are justified and ignored? Nothing good."

-Dr. Ron Paul, What If speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqAF-Alc7CM)

I don't know why it's not positive to remind people what the stakes are.... That's not negative, that's not fear-mongering. We ARE heading in a very dangerous and unsustainable direction, as Dr. Paul has been preaching for decades.

But seriously, nothing like a great post like this to bring a whole bunch of trolling and derailing comments. Either get on this train or GTFO, cuz we aren't stopping.

[Ivash]

This "nation" doesn't want to be saved. Politics as usual with all the repercussions that comes with it.

I'm not sure if this is right. We saw in 2008 a massive desire for change. The President did not live up to expectations, though, so people are unsure what can actually change the system, and I think even more people are unsure about what change they really want. Other wants change but don't want libertarian change, etc.

[nobody's_hero]

It's an important question. I've thought about where I would go if living here no longer was attractive.

Heh. I've thought about it too. Ultimately, though, I decided that since the U.S. government is determined to invade every country in the world, I might be just slightly safer here at home.

I mean, I'd hate to move to another country and then get bombed by someone who wants to spread democracy, which is what I'm running from.

[tremendoustie]

RP is a key man, and a hero, but he's just one man, and this election is just one struggle in the centuries long effort for liberty.

The next step: move to NH :)

[azxd]

Many have given up on this nation, if the view is a political one ... There is little hope for this nation because it's people live in a World where they are sheltered from the truth, and isolated from what is happening via an addiction to nothing of value (tangible goods).

[TheTexan]

We don't need to save this country. We only need to save ourselves. Secession please.

[J_White]

:(

well, nothing last forever. all great empires fall.

it is unfortunate that we live in a time where USA might fall. >.<

[PolicyReader]

Heh. I've thought about it too. Ultimately, though, I decided that since the U.S. government is determined to invade every country in the world, I might be just slightly safer here at home.

I mean, I'd hate to move to another country and then get bombed by someone who wants to spread democracy, which is what I'm running from.
There are some very tangible reasons why Paul is popular around the world. No one likes to be bombed for "peace", and Paul is one of the only individuals in national politics here in the USA who will acknowledge that fact in any functional way.

[SaulPaulinsky]

Heh. I've thought about it too. Ultimately, though, I decided that since the U.S. government is determined to invade every country in the world, I might be just slightly safer here at home.

I mean, I'd hate to move to another country and then get bombed by someone who wants to spread democracy, which is what I'm running from.

Gotta pick one the U.S. doesn't care about, already gets what they want from, or powerful enough to deter them.

[ClydeCoulter]

Don't Give Up !

Urgent Request (04/07/2012): See This post Vermont Needs Help or Vermont DELEGATES At Stake

[Anti Federalist]

Hate to be the wet blanket here, but...

If the forces aligned against freedom and liberty are as powerful as we all think they are, and I have no reason to doubt that they are not, a man like Ron Paul would not get within 1000 yards of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

This isn't going to be solved by voting.

[azxd]

Hate to be the wet blanket here, but...

If the forces aligned against freedom and liberty are as powerful as we all think they are, and I have no reason to doubt that they are not, a man like Ron Paul would not get within 1000 yards of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

This isn't going to be solved by voting.Speak for yourself !!!

The man has conversed in the Oval Office a few times, so it's only impossible for the self defeatist, fearmongering type of individual ;)

Translation = If you really think this ... Why are you here ?

[Endthefednow]

Hate to be the dry blanket, Ron Paul has a chance of getting not only within 1000 yards of 1600 Pennsylvania, but actually becoming
the next Prez of the United States. He is the only one who will and does take votes away from Obama I know 4 in my family and many
others who have switched from Dem to Rep just to vote for Ron Paul ;)

[Anti Federalist]

Speak for yourself !!!

The man has conversed in the Oval Office a few times, so it's only impossible for the self defeatist, fearmongering type of individual ;)

Translation = If you really think this ... Why are you here ?

To say that I did everything possible before this goes to the next level.

[TheTexan]

While I'm happy to see so many people here take such an interest in trying to give this country freedom, this country does not want freedom. We don't need to be wasting our time anymore trying to force freedom on them when they have so clearly rejected it.

Just as oil separates from water, separate from these people. Move to NH, and raise the flag of freedom.

[Anti Federalist]

While I'm happy to see so many people here take such an interest in trying to give this country freedom, this country does not want freedom. We don't need to be wasting our time anymore trying to force freedom on them when they have so clearly rejected it.

Just as oil separates from water, separate from these people. Move to NH, and raise the flag of freedom.

This.

It's either drag these people along kicking and screaming, with all the trouble that entails, or separate.

[ClydeCoulter]

While I'm happy to see so many people here take such an interest in trying to give this country freedom, this country does not want freedom. We don't need to be wasting our time anymore trying to force freedom on them when they have so clearly rejected it.

Just as oil separates from water, separate from these people. Move to NH, and raise the flag of freedom.

I beg to differ, they want freedom, they just aren't exposed to the idea. The PTB don't want them to hear it, and they won't from mainstream sources.

That's why this is an effort that is not easy. We don't fight the fight for freedom because they hand it to us on a plate, but because it's worth fighting for.

We the people will get the message out, along with Dr. Paul, to those that have not heard and understood the message. We will strive for it until it is successful or we lay in our graves.

[Anti Federalist]

I beg to differ, they want freedom, they just aren't exposed to the idea. The PTB don't want them to hear it, and they won't from mainstream sources.

I'm not so sure of that at all.

People still want what they have always wanted: to be fed, entertained and, if possible, to exercise petty authority over their fellow man.

Freedom has always been brought to a majority by a minority, even in "post modern" events like the Arab Spring or the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[JK/SEA]

I dunno...i'm liking that idea of the military arresting traitors to the constitution, and inserting temp. leaders to get this country back on track, until free elections can then be employed.

[Anti Federalist]

I dunno...i'm liking that idea of the military arresting traitors to the constitution, and inserting temp. leaders to get this country back on track, until free elections can then be employed.

Dangerous road to go down.

"Temporary" leaders always learn to dislike the "temporary" part.

ETA - That said, it's not like I've got better answers.

All I know is we're in a tight spot right now.

[azxd]

Boogie man is strong, it seems.

[JK/SEA]

Dangerous road to go down.

"Temporary" leaders always learn to dislike the "temporary" part.

ETA - That said, it's not like I've got better answers.

All I know is we're in a tight spot right now.

Yeah, i know what you're saying, and i knew when i typed it that it was a risky thought to put out there. I just can't shake that ''all enemies foreign and domestic'' thing. And yeah, that 'tight' spot is getting tighter. Critical mass has me concerned.

[ProIndividual]

Is it ONE WORLD ORDER you favor, or ANARCHY?

I'm an anarchist and I'm in favor of panarchist synthesis (simultaneous existence of all organizational and economic methods among voluntary associates) and panarchism (de-monopolized voluntary social contracts (government and law) without regard to geography) generally.


Kumbaya, m'Lord, kumbaya.

Is this a straw man attempt? I'm not in favor of utopianism; it's anarchism that is the only non-utopian philosophy known to man. There is no sing-a-long or perfection, nor is there any uniformity. Those things are the state. Sing that song to the state. The state is the fantasy; it's not stable, perpetual, benign, or beneficial. Kumbaya my parasite (state), Kumbaya.



By that logic, separate COMPANIES are false idols. Why not just ONE, BIG, HAPPY CORPORATION?

I'm sorry, is there an anthem, flag, passtime, and oath to Wal-Mart I'm not aware of? Do children begin each school day in Wal-Mart schools by pledging allegience to Wal-Mart? Do they die in wars of aggression that Wal-Mart started on the lies of Wal-Mart CEOs who tell them it's defensive war? Are those Wal-Mart CEOs who owned slaves I see pictured above the alphabet and chalkboard?

No, it's the state that does those things, and nationalism is the religion by which you excuse it. Those are President's above the chalkboard that we're told for 12+ years were virtuous and without whom's state we'd have poison ham sandwiches and TV's that blow our limbs off.

Nationalism is the pseudo-religion of the state. The state is a mafia. Tax is extortion. Prison for not paying extortion is kidnapping. Being shot for resisting that kidnapping is murder. Those who murder you are thugs.

See what happens when nationalist bias is lifted?


Wikipedia:

Nationalism emphasizes collective identity - a 'people' must be autonomous, united, and express a single national culture.[10]

National flags, national anthems, and other symbols of national identity are often considered sacred, as if they were religious rather than political symbols. Deep emotions are aroused.[12][13][14][15] Gellner and Breuilly, in Nations and Nationalism, contrast nationalism and patriotism. "If the nobler word 'patriotism' then replaced 'civic/Western nationalism', nationalism as a phenomenon had ceased to exist."[16][17][18]

Nationalism is collectivist, and it's not patriotism. Patriotism is love of fellow countrymen (the people)...nationalism is love of the state. Don't EVER confuse the two.

BTW...corporate personhood and corporations (not to be confused with free market big business) is a manifestation of the state. It goes away, so does corporate personhood.


The "State" does NOT demand blood sacrifices.

So what are those children it recruits out of high school and sends to wars on lies? What are the people who shed their blood every 200-300 years in a bloody overthrow of the former small state that grew into a large tyrnnical state, to restore the small state? This endless cycle of bloodshed to preserve the state's existence is blood sacrifice on the blind faith of nationalism that a state is necessary to have law, courts, police, fire departments, roads, first class mail, you name it.

If that isn't blood sacrifice then I don't know what is.



The PEOPLE leading/running/controlling the States/Companies are demanding them . . . AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE ACQUIESCING.

Nice rationalization. Of course, of course, of course...it's not the state, it's who is in power, some small group of people....it's not that we all listen to those sociopaths and habitual liars or anything. You know what those people are when you stop listening to them? Just some guys. Nationalism brainwashes people into believing you have to obey. They acquiesce because of nationalism and statism. No statey, no brainwashy, no problem. The root problem is the state, not who runs it. Every state in history turns out this way. Humans should NEVER rule other humans. You don't need compulsory government, it's antithetical to liberty. Anything compuslory is. You can have voluntary government, or ACQUIESCE to tyranny.



When ya git right down to it...SO IS HUMANITY


No, it's a species. Society is a collection of individuals, not a collective. If it was a collective we should kill anyone holding the collective back...like mental ill people, etc.

Of course we don't (anymore). Yeah...the state used to forced sterilize people in half the States of this state (United States)...it's called Eugenics. That's what statism (collectivism) and nationalism (collectivism) lead to...commiting atrocities for the "good of the collective". That's the justification for the drug war, wars based on lies, the PATRIOT Act...

...nevermind. You aren't ready to face the logical conclusion of your ideology (not philosophy), clearly.


Make no mistake, y'all gots some LIBERTINES jumbled up with yer LIBERTARIANS.

Don't confuse anarchy for anomie, or small governemnt statism for libertarianism. Every other nation in the world, for over 150 years, knows libertarian is synonymous with anarchist. The word "libertarian" was made up by anarchists so they could publish newsletters in Europe when the state banned the use of the word "anarchist". If small govt statists want to use the word libertarian, fine...but don't dare confuse anarchy for anomie, anarchists for libertines, or or anarchism for Social Darwinism (which BTW was a failure of classical liberalism aka small government statism NOT anarchism aka libertarianism).

Accuse us of greed and libertine nature, when you call yourself a friend of liberty? HA!


What would it be if you back out APPLE and CHINESE PURCHASES OF AMERICAN STUFF

Quite the libertarian, aren't we? Anti-free trade...but you call me something like "libertine". You need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're a libertarian at all.

[PolicyReader]

While I'm happy to see so many people here take such an interest in trying to give this country freedom, this country does not want freedom. We don't need to be wasting our time anymore trying to force freedom on them when they have so clearly rejected it.

Just as oil separates from water, separate from these people. Move to NH, and raise the flag of freedom.
I like the concept of moving to NH and being left well enough alone to do our own thing, but I honestly don't see it happening. Not without reining in federal authority first. The alphabet soup which spearheads so much federal action isn't above intervening in sovereign nations who are trying to be left well enough alone, they certainly won't be deterred by state laws or state lines. The fruits of globalizing technologies are simply this, there is no more "out" or "away" overreach and invasiveness needs be addressed for they can no longer be evaded or ignored. I wish I could think otherwise but I can't even reason myself to a "maybe" with regards to this, not with federal authority culture remaining what it currently is.

[azxd]

I like the concept of moving to NH and being left well enough alone to do our own thing, but I honestly don't see it happening. Not without reining in federal authority first. The alphabet soup which spearheads so much federal action isn't above intervening in sovereign nations who are trying to be left well enough alone, they certainly won't be deterred by state laws or state lines. The fruits of globalizing technologies are simply this, there is no more "out" or "away" overreach and invasiveness needs be addressed for they can no longer be evaded or ignored. I wish I could think otherwise but I can't even reason myself to a "maybe" with regards to this, not with federal authority culture remaining what it currently is.If you're gonna move to a supposedly more free State, doesn't it make sense to look at which States have less freedom reducing laws.
No gun registration, easily obtainable or not required concealed carry permits might be a good place to start that search ... Then again, locating States that have legislation on the books, and only await a final signature to invoke succession from the Union mean a hell of a lot.

Look to Texas, Arizona, and Montana ... NH might have like minded people, but these States have filed preliminary paperwork in preparation for things that may soon come.

Find States that can/do tell the FED's to get stuffed ;)