TOBACCO!

[otherone]

In light of all this Liberty talk, why is tobacco a controlled substance? ATF? really? Tobacco? It can't just be tax revenue, could it? I mean, a BAJILLION people sell tax-free produce on corner stands throughout this great land...

[ghengis86]

Protecting the children and all that shit. Big Sis knows what's best, they need to fund anti-smoking programs, fill their coffers, justify their existence, etc. etc.

Just a bunch of bullshit that has no place in a free society

[pcosmar]

ATF (and bait) should be a convenience store.

[Acala]

They need to tax it so they have a way to fund the subsidy.

[Phil]

Well, it's a carcinogen and is hazardous to asthmatics, such as myself. If I get the tiniest whiff of tobacco smoke I'll start coughing. They have a point to want to regulate it. Do I think they should? No. Do I think it should be illegal to smoke it in public? Yep.

[donnay]

Well, it's a carcinogen and is hazardous to asthmatics, such as myself. If I get the tiniest whiff of tobacco smoke I'll start coughing. They have a point to want to regulate it. Do I think they should? No. Do I think it should be illegal to smoke it in public? Yep.

So I guess you cannot be invited to barbeques then huh?

[pcosmar]

So I guess you cannot be invited to barbeques then huh?

Or my home. I burn wood for heat.

Oh,, and my wife is asthmatic.. She also collects the animals that she is allergic to.
;)

[The Goat]

what would you consider public? A business? the line between my driveway and sidewalk?


Well, it's a carcinogen and is hazardous to asthmatics, such as myself. If I get the tiniest whiff of tobacco smoke I'll start coughing. They have a point to want to regulate it. Do I think they should? No. Do I think it should be illegal to smoke it in public? Yep.

[Phil]

So I guess you cannot be invited to barbeques then huh?
No, barbecues are fine. The worst irritants are cigarette smoke and car exhaust.

[pcosmar]

No, barbecues are fine. The worst irritants are cigarette smoke and car exhaust.

Perfumes.
Chlorine (city water)
etc.

[Phil]

what would you consider public? A business? the line between my driveway and sidewalk?
Government owned property. What anyone would define as public property. I don't care if a business allows smoking in their establishment. If they do, I just won't go there. If someone smokes in their backyard, it probably won't reach anyone so I don't care.

[tod evans]

Government owned property. What anyone would define as public property. .

So soldiers shouldn't be permitted to smoke on base? I couldn't smoke in a national park?

What about my tax dollars.....aren't I entitled to puff my pipe on land I contribute equally to?

How about streets or sidewalks?.........I own a business and am taxed in a higher bracket than "Joe Citizen", don't my taxes buy me equal rights?

Rap music causes me to have severe anti-social reactions, would I be in the right to petition the courts to outlaw rap?

[bushido]

It's cool to have an ornately decorated packet or case of well-crafted smokes. It's some primal form of pleasure to spark a match or spur the flint of a steel lighter and light your rolled herb, creating a little personal flame that burns in your fingertips, of which you inhale its essence into your body.

It's a damn shame tobacco is so addictive and destructive. I enjoyed the "cool factor" of smoking for about 6 years, but smoking was cool only about 1% of the time of actually doing it. The other 99% was spent merely feeding the addiction and degrading my health. I quit after I began to see smoking cigarettes for what it really was: a waste of time, money, and life.

Should it be illegal? I think absolutely not. We are all free to make our own choices.

[Phil]

So soldiers shouldn't be permitted to smoke on base? I couldn't smoke in a national park?

What about my tax dollars.....aren't I entitled to puff my pipe on land I contribute equally to?

How about streets or sidewalks?.........I own a business and am taxed in a higher bracket than "Joe Citizen", don't my taxes buy me equal rights?

Rap music causes me to have severe anti-social reactions, would I be in the right to petition the courts to outlaw rap?
Your smoking impedes on my freedom to NOT inhale a carcinogen, though.

[otherone]

My op wasn't about smoking being hazardous...there are a lot of hazardous materials regulations that don't require jack-booted enforcement.

[bushido]

Well it's regulated for the same reason many things are regulated: a group of influential people got together and decided to regulate it! The tobacco companies, the farmers, the health industries, and the tax man all have something to lose or gain because tobacco is a huge collusion of interests.

[pcosmar]

Your smoking impedes on my freedom to NOT inhale a carcinogen, though.

A carcinogen is any substance, radionuclide, or radiation that is an agent directly involved in causing cancer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen

You have been buying bullshit.
Cancer is natural. Affects all life forms. and is caused by cells.. not by substances.

[MRoCkEd]

So soldiers shouldn't be permitted to smoke on base? I couldn't smoke in a national park?

What about my tax dollars.....aren't I entitled to puff my pipe on land I contribute equally to?

How about streets or sidewalks?.........I own a business and am taxed in a higher bracket than "Joe Citizen", don't my taxes buy me equal rights?

Rap music causes me to have severe anti-social reactions, would I be in the right to petition the courts to outlaw rap?
This is the problem that comes with public property. Should any type of sexual act be permitted at a public playground?

[tod evans]

Your smoking impedes on my freedom to NOT inhale a carcinogen, though.

Legislating respect doesn't work.

If you ask me nicely not to smoke in your presence I won't........But if you get in my face I'll fight back.

It's all about being a decent human.......something that can't be legislated.

Realistically if you or any asthmatic wants to legislate "clean air" for yourself or any group of people you need to address the larger causes of pollution such as petroleum and coal before targeting the smaller causes such as smokers.

It's just easier to gripe at Billy-Bob than GM or Ford.

[Phil]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen

You have been buying bullshit.
Cancer is natural. Affects all life forms. and is caused by cells.. not by substances.
So lung, throat, and other cancers of the mouth is just an extreme coincidence with people who smoke or are in contact with tobacco smoke?

[tod evans]

So lung, throat, and other cancers of the mouth is just an extreme coincidence with people who smoke or are in contact with tobacco smoke?

Coal miners and inner-city residents have higher rates than rural farmers too!

Let's all line up and pass some laws to "protect" these people.

[pcosmar]

So lung, throat, and other cancers of the mouth is just an extreme coincidence with people who smoke or are in contact with tobacco smoke?

They also happen to people that have never smoked.
And very often never happen to people that smoke. (the vast majority)

They happen in animals that have never smoked nor been in contact with smokers. That is because cancer is a natural occurrence.

[ClydeCoulter]

So lung, throat, and other cancers of the mouth is just an extreme coincidence with people who smoke or are in contact with tobacco smoke?

You also might check out the list of chemicals that the gov requires to be put into tobacco products if they leave state lines.

[bushido]

pcosmar...
So you have group A that smokes and has a 15% incidence rate of lung cancer, and group B that doesn't smoke and has a 5% incidence rate of lung cancer.
Then you repeat the experiment again and again, and every time, the smoking group A still has a significantly higher incidence rate of lung cancer.

How do you explain that?

[Anti Federalist]

Your smoking impedes on my freedom to NOT inhale a carcinogen, though.

Carcinogens abound.

Your car releases more than a shred of smoldering plant matter.

Are you going to ban my woodstove next?

[Phil]

Coal miners and inner-city residents have higher rates than rural farmers too!

Let's all line up and pass some laws to "protect" these people.
*sigh*

[pcosmar]

*sigh*

Facts trump emotional opinions.

[Anti Federalist]

Moot issue anyway.

Tobacco will be a controlled schedule 1 narcotic within twenty years and prohibited entirely.

Resulting in another black market for the CIA to exploit and another 20 million people in jail.

[Phil]

Carcinogens abound.

Your car releases more than a shred of smoldering plant matter.

Are you going to ban my woodstove next?
No, because that is on your own property. Unless you carry a wood stove with you.

[Anti Federalist]

And I get a called a commie because I don't think dying women should be forcibly removed from hospital to be thrown in jail cell and die.

Meanwhile, nothing brings out the authoritarians faster than a tobacco thread.

[Phil]

They also happen to people that have never smoked.
And very often never happen to people that smoke. (the vast majority)

They happen in animals that have never smoked nor been in contact with smokers. That is because cancer is a natural occurrence.

Yes cancer is natural and happens all the time. There is no doubt that carcinogens increase the chances of getting cancer, though.

[pcosmar]

Yes cancer is natural and happens all the time. There is no doubt that carcinogens increase the chances of getting cancer, though.

Actually there is doubt. a lot of it.

I have serious doubt that carcinogens* exist at all. Though there may be several factors and substances that could aggravate cancer,, no proof has ever been given that they CAUSE cancer.

Cancer is naturally occurring. Attempts to claim any particular substance "Causes" it are false on their face.

*I already gave the definition of carcinogen

[tod evans]

The original Colonies made their living off tobacco, that was the beginning of tobacco legislation.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/nc/nc2b.htm

Then around prohibition time our good ol' government decided there were federal dollars to be made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Alcohol,_Tobacco,_Firearms_and_Explosive s

[bushido]

Cigarette smokers are extremely defensive because they're so heavily rooted in their addiction.
You have a group of people that systematically pays hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year to inhale noxious substance with literally no benefit except the satisfaction of a drug craving, like wearing a pair of shoes that are too small all day simply so that you may feel the relief of taking them off at night.

Bring up the topic of not smoking and smokers run and hide or get aggressive because they haven't come to terms with the fact that they're drug addicts.
The sad part is that it's actually very simple to quit smoking but the problem is that the smoker has to make the choice to quit, which they rarely do because they're always on the defensive. I mean look at this, you have multiple people denying the health risks of smoking by saying cancer is natural and not caused by substances, or that there are so many carcinogens everywhere that it doesn't matter, but you don't actually see them drinking an ice cold glass of uranium or inhaling car exhaust directly from the tail-pipe because they know better, but shut off the rational part of their minds because their bodies are most likely craving nicotine right now and they MUST have it.

[Anti Federalist]

No, because that is on your own property. Unless you carry a wood stove with you.

But the smoke doesn't stay on my property.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't smoke, Adolph.

Nor do I smoke pot, but I vigorously defend the right of people who do so.


Cigarette smokers are extremely defensive because they're so heavily rooted in their addiction.
You have a group of people that systematically pays hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year to inhale noxious substance with literally no benefit except the satisfaction of a drug craving, like wearing a pair of shoes that are too small all day simply so that you may feel the relief of taking them off at night.

Bring up the topic of not smoking and smokers run and hide or get aggressive because they haven't come to terms with the fact that they're drug addicts.
The sad part is that it's actually very simple to quit smoking but the problem is that the smoker has to make the choice to quit, which they rarely do because they're always on the defensive. I mean look at this, you have multiple people denying the health risks of smoking by saying cancer is natural and not caused by substances, or that there are so many carcinogens everywhere that it doesn't matter, but you don't actually see them drinking an ice cold glass of uranium or inhaling car exhaust directly from the tail-pipe because they know better, but shut off the rational part of their minds because their bodies are most likely craving nicotine right now and they MUST have it.

[Phil]

But the smoke doesn't stay on my property.
And if it is bothering someone then they can dispute it with the local government. Just like when a neighbor's tree is hanging on another's property. You ask them to cut it down or trim it and if they don't go to the local officials.

[John F Kennedy III]

In light of all this Liberty talk, why is tobacco a controlled substance? ATF? really? Tobacco? It can't just be tax revenue, could it? I mean, a BAJILLION people sell tax-free produce on corner stands throughout this great land...

Control.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MfwnglLRJcs/TsjDYtjkt3I/AAAAAAAAAZ0/Z-3_1x1S990/s1600/ows-pepper-spray-e1321736361456.jpg

[pcosmar]

Cigarette smokers are extremely defensive because they're so heavily rooted in their addiction.


Bullshit.

I have quite twice in my lifetime (at the urging of others)
Both times for over a year, once over a year and a half, almost 2 years. Well past any addiction. I had no need to smoke.

I started again simply because I enjoy tobacco. I have quit and could again at any time,,
I have absolutely no desire to do so. Not the slightest inclination..
But the constant attempts at social engineering do make me a bit adamant in my position.

[John F Kennedy III]

Well, it's a carcinogen and is hazardous to asthmatics, such as myself. If I get the tiniest whiff of tobacco smoke I'll start coughing. They have a point to want to regulate it. Do I think they should? No. Do I think it should be illegal to smoke it in public? Yep.

Really?

[donnay]

And if it is bothering someone then they can dispute it with the local government. Just like when a neighbor's tree is hanging on another's property. You ask them to cut it down or trim it and if they don't go to the local officials.


So you're for more government restrictions?


Do you drink Diet drinks?

Have you had vaccines?

[Philhelm]

I don't smoke, Adolph.

Nor do I smoke pot, but I vigorously defend the right of people who do so.

This is the attitude people must have in order to achieve liberty. The opposite attitude will create tyranny, as everyone has something that they're against. Eventually, everybody will get their way, and nobody will be able to do anything.

[John F Kennedy III]

pcosmar...
So you have group A that smokes and has a 15% incidence rate of lung cancer, and group B that doesn't smoke and has a 5% incidence rate of lung cancer.
Then you repeat the experiment again and again, and every time, the smoking group A still has a significantly higher incidence rate of lung cancer.

How do you explain that?

This scenario wouldn't happen. Next...

[RabbitMan]

Do some of you really believe that cigarettes and chewing tobacco don't contribute to cancer? I don't want to take either side of this argument, but seriously, are we going to use pcosmar's lame logic? Let's see what happens when I change one word from his post:

"Death also happens to people that have never smoked.
And very often immediate death never happens to people that smoke. (the vast majority)

Death happens in animals that have never smoked nor been in contact with smokers. That is because death is a natural occurrence."

If you are just arguing that cancer happens to all kinds of people, therefore any statistical analysis that shows smokers/chewers are more susceptible to cancer than others is just a pile of bologna, then aren't you basically crapping on science as a whole? Statistical correlations are how we assign patterns and figure how the hell our world works. Come on. We are better than that.

[kcchiefs6465]

ATF (and bait) should be a convenience store.
If only I knew how to +rep

[John F Kennedy III]

And if it is bothering someone then they can dispute it with the local government. Just like when a neighbor's tree is hanging on another's property. You ask them to cut it down or trim it and if they don't go to the local officials.

You would really support that? Why?

[bushido]

I defend the right for people to smoke whatever they so choose, but I'm certainly not going to promote ignorance during a discussion.

[pcosmar]

Do some of you really believe that cigarettes and chewing tobacco don't contribute to cancer? I don't want to take either side of this argument, but seriously, are we going to use pcosmar's lame logic?

Quit Lying.
You just jumped in the argument,, so don't even say you are not taking a side.

You clearly are on the side of Junk Science.

I do not reject science,, but often do reject junk science and phony studies.

And changing cancer to Death does not change the argument.
Cancer is caused by nature. It is cell division gone haywire. It happens naturally, and to all species.

Trying to make a claim that any one thing "causes" it is just intellectually dishonest.

[Philhelm]

"Death also happens to people that have never smoked.
And very often immediate death never happens to people that smoke. (the vast majority)

Death happens in animals that have never smoked nor been in contact with smokers. That is because death is a natural occurrence."


Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once. Of all the wonders I yet have heard, it seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come.

[John F Kennedy III]

If only I knew had to +rep

Look at his name at the left of his post. Then look down where it says "blog this post" and click the little 6 point star to the right of that. Then click add to reputation.

[dannno]

Government owned property. What anyone would define as public property. I don't care if a business allows smoking in their establishment. If they do, I just won't go there. If someone smokes in their backyard, it probably won't reach anyone so I don't care.

I'm actually more sensitive to campfire smoke. Should I push for a law to ban campfires?

You can't outlaw everything you don't like and the fact that it is possible for me to smoke in public without affecting you or anybody else so for you to make a law against that has some moral implications.

If you see somebody smoking in public, then avoid them. It's pretty simple. There is no need for a law.

[John F Kennedy III]

I think I'm going to start smoking more just to piss off more authoritarians. Seriously.

[donnay]

This is the attitude people must have in order to achieve liberty. The opposite attitude will create tyranny, as everyone has something that they're against. Eventually, everybody will get their way, and nobody will be able to do anything.


Well said! +rep

[John F Kennedy III]

This is the attitude people must have in order to achieve liberty. The opposite attitude will create tyranny, as everyone has something that they're against. Eventually, everybody will get their way, and nobody will be able to do anything.

+rep

[John F Kennedy III]

If you see somebody smoking in public, then avoid them. It's pretty simple. There is no need for a law.

THIS.

[RabbitMan]

I'm actually more sensitive to campfire smoke. Should I push for a law to ban campfires?

You can't outlaw everything you don't like and the fact that it is possible for me to smoke in public without affecting you or anybody else so for you to make a law against that has some moral implications.

If you see somebody smoking in public, then avoid them. It's pretty simple. There is no need for a law.

People are getting a little obsessed with the one guy's comment about "outlawing smoking in public places." What he clarified was, and I understood the intent, that he meant outlawing smoking in courtrooms, government buildings, Public with a Capital-P. You know, regulating the government, not the private sector? No weapons in federal buildings, that type of thing.

[pcosmar]

I think I'm going to start smoking more just to piss off more authoritarians. Seriously.

I just lit one,
And am blowing smoke at the computer screen.

:p

[John F Kennedy III]

People are getting a little obsessed with the one guy's comment about "outlawing smoking in public places." What he clarified was, and I understood the intent, that he meant outlawing smoking in courtrooms, government buildings, Public with a Capital-P. You know, regulating the government, not the private sector? No weapons in federal buildings, that type of thing.

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL ME I CAN'T SMOKE IN PUBLIC. GET OVER IT.

[pcosmar]

No weapons in federal buildings, that type of thing.

And you think that is a good thing? :confused:

[John F Kennedy III]

I just lit one,
And am blowing smoke at the computer screen.

:p

Fighting tyranny, one cigarette at a time :p

[Anti Federalist]

And if it is bothering someone then they can dispute it with the local government. Just like when a neighbor's tree is hanging on another's property. You ask them to cut it down or trim it and if they don't go to the local officials.

Which is why local and state governments are banning woodstoves.

Using your argument.

[Anti Federalist]

This is the attitude people must have in order to achieve liberty. The opposite attitude will create tyranny, as everyone has something that they're against. Eventually, everybody will get their way, and nobody will be able to do anything.

THIS!!!!!!

Everybody needs to take their collective sticks out of their asses about their pet peeves.

We all have them, and if we're all to enjoy liberty, we all must do what we can to "shine those peeves on".

Let it go, FFS.

[otherone]

Which is why local and state governments are banning woodstoves.

Using your argument.

I've known people that have had allergic reactions to certain perfumes.
In addition, spandex shouldn't come in sizes above medium.

[bushido]

This thread is pretty funny, and I find the diversity of attitudes, opinions, and walks of life that fall under the Ron Paul banner to be amazing.
I would have never expected to be referred to as "Adolph" on the Ron Paul forum for having a strong opinion, but I honestly think THAT is the absolute beauty of the United States and Liberty. I find smoking abhorrent and destructive and others find it enjoyable and inconsequential, but I firmly believe that as long as we understand and practice the principle of LIBERTY FOR ALL we can continue to have discussions and vast differences without killing each other :D

[catdd]

[QUOTE=Philhelm-
"Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once. Of all the wonders I yet have heard, it seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come."

That's a great quote, and goes directly to the heart of the matter.

[Anti Federalist]

I've known people that have had allergic reactions to certain perfumes.
In addition, spandex shouldn't come in sizes above medium.

I'm a devout Jew or Muslim.

Your bacon cooking offends me and I can smell it as I pass by your house.

You have no right to assault my nose in such a way.

[RabbitMan]

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL ME I CAN'T SMOKE IN PUBLIC. GET OVER IT.

Wait, so are you saying the government has no authority to regulate what happens in its chambers? I agree with the poster above, that it is great to get diversity here, but this line of thinking is a bit silly if you ask me. :P I can't wait to see our military fall apart since apparently it has no authority to tell its volunteers what to do. :rolleyes:

[pcosmar]

This thread is pretty funny, and I find the diversity of attitudes, opinions, and walks of life that fall under the Ron Paul banner to be amazing.
I would have never expected to be referred to as "Adolph" on the Ron Paul forum for having a strong opinion, but I honestly think THAT is the absolute beauty of the United States and Liberty. I find smoking abhorrent and destructive and others find it enjoyable and inconsequential, but I firmly believe that as long as we understand and practice the principle of LIBERTY FOR ALL we can continue to have discussions and vast differences without killing each other :D

Ah,, perhaps you should look into the roots of anti-smoking campaigns.
Adolph Hitler was a huge anti-smoking advocate.

[Anti Federalist]

Ah,, perhaps you should look into the roots of anti-smoking campaigns.
Adolph Hitler was a huge anti-smoking advocate.

Precisely why I called him that.

[pcosmar]

Wait, so are you saying the government has no authority to regulate what happens in its chambers? I agree with the poster above, that it is great to get diversity here, but this line of thinking is a bit silly if you ask me. :P I can't wait to see our military fall apart since apparently it has no authority to tell its volunteers what to do. :rolleyes:

Where to start??

:(

[bushido]

But a strong personal opinion does not equate to one's politics.
I mean, President Obama smokes cigarettes and he's not exactly the Champion of Liberty... ;)

[donnay]

But a strong personal opinion does not equate to one's politics.
I mean, President Obama smokes cigarettes and he's not exactly the Champion of Liberty... ;)

He also claims to be a christian too. :rolleyes:

The point is this is all about control! If some of you cannot see this, then you are simply not paying attention.

[tod evans]

This is the problem that comes with public property. Should any type of sexual act be permitted at a public playground?

Help me understand the correlation between smoking in public and having sex in public playground?

[pcosmar]

Help me understand the correlation between smoking in public and having sex in public playground?

Sex causes cancer? (in that it can cause life)

[John F Kennedy III]

Where to start??

:(

I can't decide either.

[dannno]

But a strong personal opinion does not equate to one's politics.
I mean, President Obama smokes cigarettes and he's not exactly the Champion of Liberty... ;)

Obama quit smoking because he is weak (quite the irony)

[John F Kennedy III]

But a strong personal opinion does not equate to one's politics.
I mean, President Obama smokes cigarettes and he's not exactly the Champion of Liberty... ;)

It's when you try to make your opinion law, or assault others with your opinion, that you overstep your bounds.

[otherone]

Help me understand the correlation between smoking in public and having sex in public playground?

the cigarette comes after...

[John F Kennedy III]

He also claims to be a christian too. :rolleyes:

The point is this is all about control! If some of you cannot see this, then you are simply not paying attention.

This.

[Kylie]

Cigarette smokers Religious people are extremely defensive because they're so heavily rooted in their addiction.
You have a group of people that systematically pays hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year to inhale noxious substance pray and congregate with literally no benefit except the satisfaction of a drug craving their own souls, like wearing a pair of shoes that are too small all day simply so that you may feel the relief of taking them off at night.

Bring up the topic of not smoking not worshiping a God and smokers religious people run and hide or get aggressive because they haven't come to terms with the fact that they're drug addictszealots.
The sad part is that it's actually very simple to quit smoking worshipping a God, but the problem is that the smoker religious person has to make the choice to quit, which they rarely do because they're always on the defensive.


FTR, I love Jesus.....and my cigarrettes. :D


But you could replace smoker with denier of global climate change, or believer in keynsien economics. It's fun! Try it!!!

[John F Kennedy III]

Sex causes cancer? (in that it can cause life)

Oh god, they're gonna ban sex next.

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/twilight-nooooooooo.jpg

Edit: I don't know why, but that pic reminds me of 1984.

[John F Kennedy III]

FTR, I love Jesus.....and my cigarrettes. :D


But you could replace smoker with denier of global climate change, or believer in keynsien economics. It's fun! Try it!!!

BIG +rep

I love liberty and I love my cigarettes too :)

http://www.tobaccolabels.ca/download/gallery/unitedstatespacks/camelwidesfiltersusanov2008jpg;v1?attachment=0&data=larger

[tod evans]

If you are just arguing that cancer happens to all kinds of people, therefore any statistical analysis that shows smokers/chewers are more susceptible to cancer than others is just a pile of bologna, then aren't you basically crapping on science as a whole? Statistical correlations are how we assign patterns and figure how the hell our world works. Come on. We are better than that.

I haven't noticed anybody arguing that studies show tobacco users are more likely to get cancers of body parts exposed to tobacco.

Breasts, ovaries,testicles, prostates, lymph glands, bowels and even brains are susceptible to cancer as well as the mouth throat and lungs, maybe we can look for some plant to blame cancers of these organs on?

Oh-yeah, skin cancer..........holy cow it's really bad now what with the depleted ozone and all, I hold that the ozone is depleted because of the decline in tobacco production per-capita.

Just think of all the chlorophyll there would be in the USA if our tobacco production per citizen was what it was in the 1700's................

So global warming and skin cancer are the fault of non-smokers. :rolleyes:

The main gripe of non-smokers is that they don't like the smell, so because tobacco is almost as bad as coal dust they seek to legislate the behavior in others they find offensive.

I happen to find fat women buying processed food stuffs in Wal-Mart with food stamps offensive.....Is it okay for me to pass legislation regulating their behavior? Remember my kids might see these people and think it's cool to be fat and eating junk for free so my proposed bill would protect the kids too.

[John F Kennedy III]

I haven't noticed anybody arguing that studies show tobacco users are more likely to get cancers of body parts exposed to tobacco.

Breasts, ovaries,testicles, prostates, lymph glands, bowels and even brains are susceptible to cancer as well as the mouth throat and lungs, maybe we can look for some plant to blame cancers of these organs on?

Oh-yeah, skin cancer..........holy cow it's really bad now what with the depleted ozone and all, I hold that the ozone is depleted because of the decline in tobacco production per-capita.

Just think of all the chlorophyll there would be in the USA if our tobacco production per citizen was what it was in the 1700's................

So global warming and skin cancer are the fault of non-smokers. :rolleyes:

The main gripe of non-smokers is that they don't like the smell, so because tobacco is almost as bad as coal dust they seek to legislate the behavior in others they find offensive.

I happen to find fat women buying processed food stuffs in Wal-Mart with food stamps offensive.....Is it okay for me to pass legislation regulating their behavior? Remember my kids might see these people and think it's cool to be fat and eating junk for free so my proposed bill would protect the kids too.

+rep

[DerailingDaTrain]

I don't care what people smoke, where they do it, or how they choose to smoke it.

Pretty much everything is a carcinogen anyway.

[osan]

No, because that is on your own property. Unless you carry a wood stove with you.

I have a 1983 GMC school bus that was converted into a mobile home. It has a wood stove.

What now?

[Origanalist]

I have a 1983 GMC school bus that was converted into a mobile home. It has a wood stove.

What now?

Off with you head!

[catdd]

Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once. Of all the wonders I yet have heard, it seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come.


“The morning glory which blooms for an hour differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years.”

[Origanalist]

I have a 1983 GMC school bus that was converted into a mobile home. It has a wood stove.

What now?

I used to have a 1956 GMC schoolbus with the original running gear and it had a 67 ford falcon van grafted on the top of it. I called it The Vus and it had a wood stove in it too. Bought it at the barter fair in Tonasket WA.

I miss that thing, it was a lot of fun and sure drew a crowd at concerts at the Gorge.

[Anti Federalist]

I have a 1983 GMC school bus that was converted into a mobile home. It has a wood stove.

What now?


I used to have a 1956 GMC schoolbus with the original running gear and it had a 67 ford falcon van grafted on the top of it. I called it The Vus and it had a wood stove in it too. Bought it at the barter fair in Tonasket WA.

I miss that thing, it was a lot of fun and sure drew a crowd at concerts at the Gorge.

LOL - The local burnouts, myself included, we used to cruise around in one these with all kinds of goofy shit painted on it, keg taps and couches inside.

Best gag? On the back doors, stenciled in big letters:

"Don't laugh. Your daughter might be in here."

We didn't have a woodstove though. You guys rock.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwIIthvx65oH8VMZz5G1ixGaPcFK6fP AvuAOm6lZz4u5-VKDnvh2bMsMkX8Q

[eduardo89]

Bullshit.

I have quite twice in my lifetime (at the urging of others)
Both times for over a year, once over a year and a half, almost 2 years. Well past any addiction. I had no need to smoke.

I started again simply because I enjoy tobacco. I have quit and could again at any time,,
I have absolutely no desire to do so. Not the slightest inclination..
But the constant attempts at social engineering do make me a bit adamant in my position.

I think that's one of the things that non-smokers will never understand. Smoking is enjoyable! I'll admit, I started smoking because it was "cool", but later on I smoked because I truly enjoyed it.

[eduardo89]

People are getting a little obsessed with the one guy's comment about "outlawing smoking in public places." What he clarified was, and I understood the intent, that he meant outlawing smoking in courtrooms, government buildings, Public with a Capital-P. You know, regulating the government, not the private sector? No weapons in federal buildings, that type of thing.

Firearms should be allowed in public buildings. They're actually allowed in the NH State House, iirc.

I just re-read the 2nd amendment and I believe it says the federal government can't pass any laws that restrict the right to bear arms. There's no exception for government buildings...

[QuickZ06]

He is my take from a non smokers perspective. Now I don't like cigarette smoke just as much as the next non smoker but that does not give me the right to go around policing the environments I spend my days and nights in, public or private. Only place I have say is on MY property and I will still let you smoke out back, b.c I'm cool like that. People can do what ever they want even if it kills themselves as long as your not all in my face with it on purpose I could care less, as most places I hang out in at night allow smoking.

Now here is a question I have been thinking about, does straight tobacco from the plant cause anything to is it just the crap the government makes them put inside of the cigarettes?

[QuickZ06]

Now I would hope none of the cigarette smokers here would bash or look down upon someone if they legalized all drugs and took a few hits off the "meth pipe" in a bar or what ever.

[tod evans]

He is my take from a non smokers perspective. Now I don't like cigarette smoke just as much as the next non smoker but that does not give me the right to go around policing the environments I spend my days and nights in, public or private. Only place I have say is on MY property and I will still let you smoke out back, b.c I'm cool like that. People can do what ever they want even if it kills themselves as long as your not all in my face with it on purpose I could care less, as most places I hang out in at night allow smoking.

Now here is a question I have been think about, does straight tobacco from the plant cause anything to is it just the crap the government makes them put inside of the cigarettes?


Good astute question, unfortunately I don't have the answer....

When I took up a pipe I put down a 2-3pk a day non-filter camel habit, the "Jones" was worse than coming off a 2 year coke binge! And I had plenty of nicotine input.

Natural tobacco does not keep burning like a cigarette does, Nat Sherman's (http://natsherman.com/index.cfm) as well as home grown or good tobacco will go out like a joint if you don't keep pulling air through it.

[Anti Federalist]

Now here is a question I have been think about, does straight tobacco from the plant cause anything to is it just the crap the government makes them put inside of the cigarettes?

Untreated, organic, natural tobacco smoked in a pipe or cigar or hookah smells completely different than a cigarette.

IMO

[Anti Federalist]

Now I would hope none of the cigarette smokers here would bash or look down upon someone if they legalized all drugs and took a few hits off the "meth pipe" in a bar or what ever.

Be my guest.

I could use a contact buzz off that actually, tired as hell today.

I doubt you'd be around long enough to create much of a problem if you started 'basing crank on a regular basis however.

[tod evans]

Untreated, organic, natural tobacco smoked in a pipe or cigar or hookah smells completely different than a cigarette.

IMO

Tastes different too.

[QuickZ06]

Be my guest.

I could use a contact buzz off that actually, tired as hell today.

I doubt you'd be around long enough to create much of a problem if you started 'basing crank on a regular basis however.

Glad to hear that type of answer but it is expected from you haha.

I am honestly tired of the tobacco war. If my friends and family wanna smoke, do it. And too all you Paul Bot's as well, LIGHT UM UP!!!!

[tod evans]

Now I would hope none of the cigarette smokers here would bash or look down upon someone if they legalized all drugs and took a few hits off the "meth pipe" in a bar or what ever.

Personally I'm all for everybody having the freedom to choose what they ingest.

Just don't ask me to pay for yours.

[Bruno]

I'm sitting right now in a VA hospital, watching as my former father-in-law Frank, who was like a father to me, slips away from life due to emphysema. He may only have hours left, they have stopped all life saving measures, and his is on narcotics to keep him out of pain.

He smoked heavily until a few years ago, when his health got bad he had no choice. For the last few years, he couldn't leave the house without his oxygen with him. Sometimes he could only walk a few feet without resting.

He is still fighting for breath, his last one is sadly not far away. And yet still some members of the family head outside for a cigarette, which is almost as hard to watch as watching Frank die.

I quit seven years ago. Four years ago, the day of the big Rally for the Rebublic, my mom died of a long, grueling battle with lung cancer. It was incredibly hard to see her tremble with a cigaratte in her hands her final days with 20 cartons she had ordered from Missouri beside the bed, cigs she had planned on smoking.

Quit. Stop. Put them down and don't look back. You will never regret it, and odds are those who love you will be able to spend many more years in your company and you in theirs.

[MelissaWV]

Now I would hope none of the cigarette smokers here would bash or look down upon someone if they legalized all drugs and took a few hits off the "meth pipe" in a bar or what ever.

I believe in behavioral standards. If someone can do meth and remain within the private property's boundaries of appropriate behavior, I'm not sure why that would be a problem. Likewise, drinking at a bar is fine, but you will be tossed out if you start behaving inappropriately.

[LibForestPaul]

Your smoking impedes on my freedom to NOT inhale a carcinogen, though.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen

here are many natural carcinogens. Aflatoxin B1, which is produced by the fungus Aspergillus flavus growing on stored grains, nuts and peanut butter, is an example of a potent, naturally-occurring microbial carcinogen.

Benzene -
Light fuel oil
Former use as solvent and fumigant
Printing
Lithography
Paint
Rubber
Dry cleaning
Adhesives
Coatings

Gasoline (contains aromatics)

Smog

[tod evans]

I'm sitting right now in a VA hospital, watching as my former father-in-law Frank, who was like a father to me, slips away from life due to emphysema. He may only have hours left, they have stopped all life saving measures, and his is on narcotics to keep him out of pain.

He smoked heavily until a few years ago, when his health got bad he had no choice. For the last few years, he couldn't leave the house without his oxygen with him. Sometimes he could only walk a few feet without resting.

He is still fighting for breath, his last one is sadly not far away. And yet still some members of the family head outside for a cigarette, which is almost as hard to watch as watching Frank die.

I quit seven years ago. Four years ago, the day of the big Rally for the Rebublic, my mom died of a long, grueling battle with lung cancer. It was incredibly hard to see her tremble with a cigaratte in her hands her final days with 20 cartons she had ordered from Missouri beside the bed, cigs she had planned on smoking.

Quit. Stop. Put them down and don't look back. You will never regret it, and odds are those who love you will be able to spend many more years in your company and you in theirs.

Well thought out and logical opinion!

All the best for your FIL.

[MelissaWV]

Quit Lying.
You just jumped in the argument,, so don't even say you are not taking a side.

You clearly are on the side of Junk Science.

I do not reject science,, but often do reject junk science and phony studies.

And changing cancer to Death does not change the argument.
Cancer is caused by nature. It is cell division gone haywire. It happens naturally, and to all species.

Trying to make a claim that any one thing "causes" it is just intellectually dishonest.

Not one thing, but many things. There are certain chemicals (natural and otherwise) which are more likely to inspire those cells to divide in a freakish way. We are bombarded with those same chemicals, mostly via methods that find their roots in the Government's regulation of things. I digress. Part of this misunderstanding begins with the fact that, somehow, all smokers are lumped into a single category, just as all 'drug users' are. Smokers come in all types, from the social smoker to the chain smoker, and from those who smoke cheap, mostly-chemical cigs to those who smoke actual tobacco and roll their own. There is a difference. Many are just a bit too stuck on their propaganda to realize it, and these "studies" are largely conducted using segments of the population who wouldn't know actual tobacco from lawn clippings.

[Anti Federalist]

<<<brotherly hug>>>

Sorry to hear about that.

Nothing we can do but say a prayer.



I'm sitting right now in a VA hospital, watching as my former father-in-law Frank, who was like a father to me, slips away from life due to emphysema. He may only have hours left, they have stopped all life saving measures, and his is on narcotics to keep him out of pain.

He smoked heavily until a few years ago, when his health got bad he had no choice. For the last few years, he couldn't leave the house without his oxygen with him. Sometimes he could only walk a few feet without resting.

He is still fighting for breath, his last one is sadly not far away. And yet still some members of the family head outside for a cigarette, which is almost as hard to watch as watching Frank die.

I quit seven years ago. Four years ago, the day of the big Rally for the Rebublic, my mom died of a long, grueling battle with lung cancer. It was incredibly hard to see her tremble with a cigaratte in her hands her final days with 20 cartons she had ordered from Missouri beside the bed, cigs she had planned on smoking.

Quit. Stop. Put them down and don't look back. You will never regret it, and odds are those who love you will be able to spend many more years in your company and you in theirs.

[pcosmar]

I think that's one of the things that non-smokers will never understand. Smoking is enjoyable! I'll admit, I started smoking because it was "cool", but later on I smoked because I truly enjoyed it.

I didn't. I started smoking when I worked in a logging camp at 12 yrs old. Big cheap cigars, to keep the deer flies and horse flies from eating me.

Keep a cloud of smoke around you and they would stay away. I developed a taste for it I guess.
I can not stand cheap cigars today, but do enjoy good ones.

I mostly smoke roll me own cigarettes,because the anti tobacco lobbies have driven the price up.
I expect to be taxed to death before anything else kills me.

[eduardo89]

I didn't. I started smoking when I worked in a logging camp at 12 yrs old. Big cheap cigars, to keep the deer flies and horse flies from eating me.

Keep a cloud of smoke around you and they would stay away. I developed a taste for it I guess.
I can not stand cheap cigars today, but do enjoy good ones.

Reminds of a type of cigarette you can get in Russia still. They cost about 25¢ a pack and it's basically the leftovers from cheap soviet cigars rolled into a cigarette. No filter, obviously. The tobacco is so dirty when you smoke, the first couple of puffs leave a nice coat of sand/dust on your tongue haha

http://deathmetalverses.blog.bg/photos/106034/original/belomor_canal.jpg

An old soviet era pack

http://novaonline.nvcc.edu/eli/evans/Photos/Russia/BeloBack.jpg
"25 pieces for 25 Kopecks (cents)"

[ClydeCoulter]

Reminds of a type of cigarette you can get in Russia still. They cost about 25¢ a pack and it's basically the leftovers from cheap soviet cigars rolled into a cigarette. No filter, obviously. The tobacco is so dirty when you smoke, the first couple of puffs leave a nice coat of sand/dust on your tongue haha


Hey, I would like to try some of those :)

I grow my own tobacco sometimes. Still have some hanging upsidedown in my basement. That tobacco is potent though, so I mix it. It seems to have less tar, and a much milder flavor, almost a nutty flavor.

[Bruno]

Well thought out and logical opinion!

All the best for your FIL.


<<<brotherly hug>>>

Sorry to hear about that.

Nothing we can do but say a prayer.

Thank you and the others that sent kind words. His pain is gone, he passed away just over an hour ago. :(

[eduardo89]

Thank you and the others that sent kind words. His pain is gone, he passed away just over an hour ago. :(

My condolences. At least you know he's not suffering anymore. Your family will be in my prayers tonight.

[kcchiefs6465]

Natural tobacco does not keep burning like a cigarette does,
That is until the government requires it to go out ;).. Speaking of.. which chemical exactly is it that causes a cigarette to "snuff" (go out) itself? I would love to know what additives I am smoking before the mandatory list comes out.

[Suzu]

So lung, throat, and other cancers of the mouth is just an extreme coincidence with people who smoke or are in contact with tobacco smoke?

The initial topic was asthma... So, here is your answer:


ASTHMA - WILL RESEARCHERS EVER SEE THE TRUTH?

NEW YORK TIMES - WEDNESDAY, MAY 5, 1999, Page B-1

"38% ASTHMA RATE FOUND IN HOMELESS CHILDREN"

A photo of a small African-American boy wearing an oxygen
mask accompanies Three hundred lines of text.

One sentence is devoted to the probable cause:

"...exposure to factors like cockroach feces, dust mites,
mold, dampness, rat and mouse urine and crowded living
conditions."

Homeless people live in shelters and get free room and
board. They get FREE cheese and milk which serves as the
foundation of their diet.

ASTHMA RATES ARE SOARING

The article comments: "For reasons that remain unclear to
researchers, the prevalence of asthma is rising..."

The highest asthma rates are found in New York City, where
23 percent of the students in the Hunts Point Section of the
Bronx have been so diagnosed.

ARE THERE MORE COCKROACHES IN THE BRONX?

Of course not! However, the rates of poverty are extremely
high among the inner city African-American population.

WHAT DO THE CHILDREN EAT?

In the name of "good nutrition," these kids are fed
concentrated milk proteins. They receive free milk and
cheese thanks to the United States Department of
Agriculture. Last year ten billion pounds of free poison
were fed to the children.

WHY DO DAIRY PRODUCTS CAUSE ASTHMA?

Eighty percent of milk protein is CASEIN, the same glue used
to hold together wood in furniture. Casein is also the glue
used to affix a label to a bottle of beer. Eat casein and
you produce histamines. Histamines result in mucus. Mucus
makes breathing difficult. Thousands of children die,
primarily African-Americans. Many deaths are misdiagnosed,
called congestive heart failure.

CONGESTION

Asthma results when the bronchioles of the lungs fill with
glue. In the case of asthma, mucus.

I first wrote about asthma and the milk connection after
reviewing the autopsy of a pizza-victim. With every organ
acutely congested with mucus, unable to breathe, this
African-American died and the undigested cheese remained in
her stomach 15 hours after her meal. Fifteen hours! Her
body worked overtime to produce histamines and mucus,
congesting her lungs. She choked to death, unable to
breathe.

http://www.notmilk.com/deb/111598.html

HIGH ASTHMA RATES IN CHILDREN

The homeless adults also live in poverty. They are also
exposed to the same environmental conditions as their kids.
However, they do not go to school. They do not eat free
breakfast, milk with cereal. They do not eat free lunch,
macaroni and cheese or cheese sandwiches. They do not drink
chocolate milk. They do not wear the cute milkstaches and
their asthma rates are not as high as their children.

__________________________________________________

Robert Cohen author of: MILK - The Deadly Poison
Executive Director (notmilkman@notmilk.com)
Dairy Education Board
http://www.notmilk.com
This file: http://www.notmilk.com/deb/asthma.txt

Do you know of a friend or family member with one or more
of these milk-related problems? Do them a huge favor and
forward the URL or this entire file to them.

[donnay]

I'm sitting right now in a VA hospital, watching as my former father-in-law Frank, who was like a father to me, slips away from life due to emphysema. He may only have hours left, they have stopped all life saving measures, and his is on narcotics to keep him out of pain.

He smoked heavily until a few years ago, when his health got bad he had no choice. For the last few years, he couldn't leave the house without his oxygen with him. Sometimes he could only walk a few feet without resting.

He is still fighting for breath, his last one is sadly not far away. And yet still some members of the family head outside for a cigarette, which is almost as hard to watch as watching Frank die.

I quit seven years ago. Four years ago, the day of the big Rally for the Rebublic, my mom died of a long, grueling battle with lung cancer. It was incredibly hard to see her tremble with a cigaratte in her hands her final days with 20 cartons she had ordered from Missouri beside the bed, cigs she had planned on smoking.

Quit. Stop. Put them down and don't look back. You will never regret it, and odds are those who love you will be able to spend many more years in your company and you in theirs.

My sincere condolences to you and your family. You are in my prayers.

[donnay]

Asthma and vaccines
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/asthma.html

Vaccination Doubles Asthma Incidence

One Click Note: The World Health Organisation states that for every 1000 children vaccinated with the pneumococcal vaccine, 1.3 children will develop asthma on account of the vaccine. At the same time only 3.6 cases of pneumonia are prevented by vaccinating 1000 children. Pneumonia is a easily treated condition. Asthma on the other hand may be a lifelong disability.

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/incidence_of_pneumonia.html

[kcchiefs6465]

I believe in behavioral standards. If someone can do meth and remain within the private property's boundaries of appropriate behavior, I'm not sure why that would be a problem. Likewise, drinking at a bar is fine, but you will be tossed out if you start behaving inappropriately.
Exactly.

[tttppp]

They also happen to people that have never smoked.
And very often never happen to people that smoke. (the vast majority)

They happen in animals that have never smoked nor been in contact with smokers. That is because cancer is a natural occurrence.

Cancer may be natural, but it is caused by things like smoke, chemicals, bad diet, etc. Cancer doesn't just form for the hell of it. It does have a cause.

[heavenlyboy34]

Reminds of a type of cigarette you can get in Russia still. They cost about 25¢ a pack and it's basically the leftovers from cheap soviet cigars rolled into a cigarette. No filter, obviously. The tobacco is so dirty when you smoke, the first couple of puffs leave a nice coat of sand/dust on your tongue haha

http://deathmetalverses.blog.bg/photos/106034/original/belomor_canal.jpg

An old soviet era pack

http://novaonline.nvcc.edu/eli/evans/Photos/Russia/BeloBack.jpg
"25 pieces for 25 Kopecks (cents)"

Kopecks (копеки) are not cents. Last time I checked the exchange rate, they're worth .29 US cents or so. /nitpick

[driller80545]

Cancer may be natural, but it is caused by things like smoke, chemicals, bad diet, etc. Cancer doesn't just form for the hell of it. It does have a cause.

You might want to study on that a little more. Cancer does form "just for the hell of it" sometimes. It does have a cause-genetics.

[DamianTV]

In light of all this Liberty talk, why is tobacco a controlled substance? ATF? really? Tobacco? It can't just be tax revenue, could it? I mean, a BAJILLION people sell tax-free produce on corner stands throughout this great land...

Federal Government in its earlier days used to collect revenue from Taxes on Tobacco and Alcohol. Hell, right before Prohibition, HALF of the Federal Governments Revenue came from the Tax on Alcohol alone. Now it has escalated to such cancerous proportions that every single person in the US were taxed 100% of their income for the next 20 years, we would still be in debt. We dont have a Revenue Problem, we have a Spending Problem.

[tttppp]

You might want to study on that a little more. Cancer does form "just for the hell of it" sometimes. It does have a cause-genetics.

Genetics do play a part, but so do the causes of cancer. If you remove the causes of cancer, there is a zero percent chance of cancer.

[DamianTV]

Really. Thats why people that never smoked a day in their life or worked around asbestos also get lung cancer. It isnt the disease that bothers me, its the supression of effective treatments that gets my goat.

[tod evans]

Genetics do play a part, but so do the causes of cancer. If you remove the causes of cancer, there is a zero percent chance of cancer.

Ummm, Maybe a brief discussion with a first year oncology resident might help you with this perspective?

[Schifference]

Everyone has a right to decide what they breathe. If you don't like cigarette smoke, wood burning, auto exhaust, then wear a respirator when out of your home and have home filtration when home. Take care of yourself.

[Czolgosz]

If an activity (any activity), while exercised in public, causes actual damage the victim then has a lawful complaint.

Couple questions...

Is there a preponderence of evidence that smoke you inhaled from a smoker caused your cancer? At best it's a cumulative effect over time.

If an activity has *potential* to do harm, given the right circumstances, is it the government's role to regulate that activity and protect a victim's rights? OR, should the government simply be the vehicle by which a victim may file an individual complaint and seek damages?

I believe you definitely have the right to bring a claim (and pay if you lose). I don't believe the government has a *right* to regulate the activity.

[DamianTV]

No human has a right to take away another humans right at will. Maybe your vegetarian (or I am) and the smell of cooking meat is somehow offensive to you. Government has no role to fill and a neighbor has no right to say that I cant barbeque.

[azxd]

Arguing morals ?

It seems the OP was answered long ago $$$

[tttppp]

Ummm, Maybe a brief discussion with a first year oncology resident might help you with this perspective?

If your body has zero imbalances, its physically impossible for a cancer to be there. In order for a cancer to exist, there must be an imbalance. Why should I talk to a doctor? They don't know anything.

[Anti Federalist]

Everyone has a right to decide what they breathe. If you don't like cigarette smoke, wood burning, auto exhaust, then wear a respirator when out of your home and have home filtration when home. Take care of yourself.

Oh no, that's no good, I demand that you change your behavior because of my perceived intolerances.

[tfurrh]

Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave, but don't leave me.
Look around. Choose your own ground.



btw, I'm about 80 days cold turkey off the smokeless tobacco (and the cravings haven't let up!).

[Anti Federalist]

Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave, but don't leave me.
Look around. Choose your own ground.



btw, I'm about 80 days cold turkey off the smokeless tobacco (and the cravings haven't let up!).

Run rabbit run
Dig that hole, forget the sun
And when at last the work is down
Don't sit down, it's time to dig another one
For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave

[Phil]

Here's a great video from Howard Stern.

Do not click if you are offended by extremely coarse language. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Xvn0mCcKo)

[tod evans]

If your body has zero imbalances, its physically impossible for a cancer to be there. In order for a cancer to exist, there must be an imbalance. Why should I talk to a doctor? They don't know anything.

Sigh.....