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View Full Version : Marc Carey's Ongoing War Against Kentucky Independents And Libertarians




Sola_Fide
03-31-2012, 10:59 AM
Senator Rand Paul has reportedly written a letter to Republican Party of Kentucky Chairman Steve Robertson in which Senator Paul expresses his "concern over efforts by some Republican Party officials in Kentucky to exclude certain individuals from participation in leadership roles in our local GOP organizations."

To the extent that his concerns are based upon what he says were violations of the rights of republicans to "due process" by arbitrary actions of others, I agree with him in principle that it is vitally important that the party and each of its county committees play by the rules.

In fact, it should be noted, that I was hired as a lawyer to attend the reorganization of the party in Boone County by people who were concerned about the same things. I met with the newly elected party leadership and many of their supporters within the TEA party to advise them about proper process. I even helped put together a brief seminar for the Northern Kentucky TEA party to educate them about proper process.

In his letter Senator Paul quotes newly elected Boone County Chairman Rick Brueggeman. Though he is himself a lawyer, Rick and I spoke more than once in advance of the county mass convention and I am confident that his interests were in using the established process to accomplish a fair and proper goal of electing people he and his group wanted to hold office. That is the American way.

But in his letter Senator Paul goes too far. In his zeal and carefully written letter he has done two things with which I disagree. And for the record, let it be remembered that I supported Senator Paul, consider him a friend and have often openly admired and spoken favorably of his service thus far in the United States Senate. But in keeping with my long established policy, despite the power he holds, our friendship or my admiration of him, I will speak freely and openly when I think it is required, even if we disagree.

I would not speak openly to him about this, but would probably communicate privately save that it was Senator Paul's letter which first became public on a weblog, and was later circulated to me by his supporters in an email. Inter-party concerns expressed by a sitting senator which rail against the sitting Chairman could have been dealt with privately. They weren't and neither then will my disagreement.

Senator Paul says "it is obvious that disqualification decisions have been directed at conservatives who signed a ballot-access petition for Mr. Ken Moellman to be placed on the ballot as candidate for Kentucky State Treasurer. My position on this is very clear. Signing a ballot access petition is not an act of disloyalty. In fact, it is a fundamental right of Americans to have and pursue access to the ballot, and Republicans should not be punished for helping a potential candidate in this way."

While Senator Paul is entitled to his opinion, I believe he is wrong. I know Ken Moellman and have no problem at all with him seeking to be placed on the ballot either as an Independent or as a candidate of the organized Libertarian Party where he has served as an officer. This is not about Mr. Moellman, it is about honor, and duty for those who are elected to office, whether public office or party office, under the banner of the Republican Party of Kentucky.

The goal of the Republican Party of Kentucky is to elect republicans to office. Those who seek the party's nomination, hold office under its banner and serve as party officers must be devoted to the party's principles and loyal to its candidates. That is clearly expressed in the preamble to the rules.

Does this mean that if an individual office holder is not in favor of a particular republican candidate that he or she is obligated to support that candidate? No, of course not. But some new members of the party have taken this right to remain silent to a new level. They believe that party officers are free to support whomever they want, even those running against republicans.

It is clear that the Republican Party nominated a candidate in last year's elections to run for State Treasurer. Loyalty to that candidate did not require financial or other support for her from party officers or elected officials. However, any candidate on the ballot running under any other banner was trying to defeat her. While I detest the use of military terms to describe domestic political contests, by analogy, the other candidates were "the enemy" so to speak.

Republicans as private citizens are of course free to do as they please. But once a person becomes an elected republican official, whether to public office or party office they become bound by duty to not give aid and comfort to "the enemy". This is where I disagree with Senator Paul. Elected republican officials and party officers who sign a ballot access petition intended to pit another candidate against a nominated republican candidate have indeed engaged in an act of disloyalty.

I agree with Senator Paul that if the private citizens who did this are excluded from participating in the future on the basis of their prior actions then the established process for challenging that decision as having arising from a mis-application of the rules should follow and run its "due course". Like the Trayvon Martin matter, there is a time, place, process and forum for resolving disputes and it should be followed to the letter of the law. That's why I was hired to be in attendance in Boone County to help protect those interests.

But to write an open letter to the Chairman of the Party and to state boldly that the act of signing a ballot petition is not an act of disloyalty is in my opinion an overstatement which incorrectly gives cover to those who want to act from within the party to advance the candidacy of others against the party's nominees in the future should "their candidate" not win in a fair primary contest.

And as I recall in 2010 there were a number of Rand Paul supporters, me included, who felt that Trey Grayson's former life as a democrat and his support for Bill Clinton were matters worthy of discussion as evidence of recent disloyalty to the party. Wouldn't membership in ANY other party be deserving of the same treatment, including the Libertarian Party?

I appreciate Senator Paul's thoughtful comments, but I suggest that he has, in his zeal, gone farther in his arguments than where I can agree.

I know it is a break from tradition for a republican to openly disagree with members of his own party, but then again, we should never be afraid to speak our minds if what we say we believe to be the truth.

I'm sure that what Senator Paul has said he believes to be the truth, but Senator Paul, I respectfully disagree


Go get em Marc! Root those evil independents out of the party! That's one sure way it will grow, right?

aclove
04-03-2012, 10:47 AM
Is this all JUST because he's running for Congress against Thomas, or is there something else going on here? I've noticed that he's become increasingly hostile and vitriolic concerning our efforts lately.

BamaFanNKy
04-03-2012, 11:08 AM
He's always been a fake. He's "The Bailout" Lawyer:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8NGPFyUqUA

Sola_Fide
04-03-2012, 01:02 PM
Is this all JUST because he's running for Congress against Thomas, or is there something else going on here? I've noticed that he's become increasingly hostile and vitriolic concerning our efforts lately.

Look at his blog today. He is reading the forums (Hi Marcus!) and his last 3 posts have been about how Ron Paul hurts the conservative movement. I think he's actually kind of getting a little obsessive about me in particular because I am featured in his most recent post. It's weird.



Why won't Marcus come clean and tell everyone that he is running only because his feelings are hurt? Marcus, is Thomas not hiring you THAT bad? Why are you being so hateful? Why are you being obsessive on the Ron Paul forums?

It makes no sense Marcus. There are independents in Kentucky who would support you in the future if you wished to throw your hat in again. Why are you making it clear that you never want their support again? Your obsession is hurting you in reality man.

GeorgiaAvenger
04-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Look at his blog today. He is reading the forums (Hi Marcus!) and his last 3 posts have been about how Ron Paul hurts the conservative movement. I think he's actually kind of getting a little obsessive about me in particular because I am featured in his most recent post. It's weird.



Why won't Marcus come clean and tell everyone that he is running only because his feelings are hurt? Marcus, is Thomas not hiring you THAT bad? Why are you being so hateful? Why are you being obsessive on the Ron Paul forums?

It makes no sense Marcus. There are independents in Kentucky who would support you in the future if you wished to throw your hat in again. Why are you making it clear that you never want their support again? Your obsession is hurting you in reality man.

Where is his blog?

Jeremy
04-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Yesterday he blogged about Ron Paul. Extremely negative. It's best to ignore him, though.

specsaregood
04-03-2012, 01:13 PM
And as I recall in 2010 there were a number of Rand Paul supporters, me included, who felt that Trey Grayson's former life as a democrat and his support for Bill Clinton were matters worthy of discussion as evidence of recent disloyalty to the party.

And this is where he misses the point. Graysons former life as a democrat was not an issue worth discussing because of some fangled "party loyalty" it was worth discussing because it brought into question his ideology, his positions on the issues.

Saying that people have a right to be on the ballot and signing it may be construed is party disloyalty by the oligarchy; but signing that ballot access even for people you wont vote for is loyalty to liberty, freedom and what should help make this country great -- making sure everybodies voice is heard. And we would all be better off if we favored candidates that put those values ahead of party loyalty.

Sola_Fide
04-03-2012, 01:26 PM
Yesterday he blogged about Ron Paul. Extremely negative. It's best to ignore him, though.

Yes. After I made this post, I commited to ignore him. But now he's obsessively following the board to get ammo or something. It's strange. He thinks I'm some "libertarian strategist" or something when I'm simply a spectator in this race lol.

Sola_Fide
04-03-2012, 01:35 PM
And this is where he misses the point. Graysons former life as a democrat was not an issue worth discussing because of some fangled "party loyalty" it was worth discussing because it brought into question his ideology, his positions on the issues.

Saying that people have a right to be on the ballot and signing it may be construed is party disloyalty by the oligarchy; but signing that ballot access even for people you wont vote for is loyalty to liberty, freedom and what should help make this country great -- making sure everybodies voice is heard. And we would all be better off if we favored candidates that put those values ahead of party loyalty.

Exactly. I think this is Rand's point as well.

Sola_Fide
04-03-2012, 01:41 PM
He's always been a fake. He's "The Bailout" Lawyer:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8NGPFyUqUA

Ouch. That's pretty damning.

BamaFanNKy
04-03-2012, 05:35 PM
He's butt hurt and really, not worth talking about. I mean, he's running against Massie who went to MIT and created a successful business. He's not hiding some history where he might have killed someone in his younger days.

specsaregood
04-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Exactly. I think this is Rand's point as well.

Furthermore, if this guy thinks party loyalty is the bee's knees then I wonder why/if he ever really supported Rand at all? There is no doubt that Grayson was the pick if you want party loyalty. His campaign was nothing but, "I'll do what McConnell and the party leaders tell me to do". Hell, they threw a shindig for him at the Republican Senator headquarters in D.C! Voting for Rand was an act of party disloyalty!

I'm beginning to get the impression that alone in that voting booth, this guy voted for Trey. just saying...

BamaFanNKy
04-03-2012, 09:38 PM
Furthermore, if this guy thinks party loyalty is the bee's knees then I wonder why/if he ever really supported Rand at all? There is no doubt that Grayson was the pick if you want party loyalty. His campaign was nothing but, "I'll do what McConnell and the party leaders tell me to do". Hell, they threw a shindig for him at the Republican Senator headquarters in D.C! Voting for Rand was an act of party disloyalty!

I'm beginning to get the impression that alone in that voting booth, this guy voted for Trey. just saying...

Alone in the voting booth he probably wrote his own name in. E-G-O!

TruthisTreason
04-04-2012, 09:45 AM
Oh its primary season, we should expect some mud-slinging. However if one wants to win an election, it will be about coalition building, not scorching the earth.

sailingaway
04-04-2012, 09:52 AM
Furthermore, if this guy thinks party loyalty is the bee's knees then I wonder why/if he ever really supported Rand at all? There is no doubt that Grayson was the pick if you want party loyalty. His campaign was nothing but, "I'll do what McConnell and the party leaders tell me to do". Hell, they threw a shindig for him at the Republican Senator headquarters in D.C! Voting for Rand was an act of party disloyalty!

I'm beginning to get the impression that alone in that voting booth, this guy voted for Trey. just saying...

I like Marcus. Remember where he is coming from, though. He used to be head of the KY GOP. He wrote some decent things about Ron earlier in the race, some pretty good stuff, in fact. Not every decent person is always going to agree with us. I must admit I haven't read his blog in the last month, probably.

Too bad he and Massie are running against eachother, I didn't even know that until I just now read this thread over (I donated a bit to Massie but haven't been following his race, really.) Dang. I'd have really been FOR Marcus running, six months ago. I'll have to look into this recent stuff.

angelatc
04-04-2012, 09:57 AM
Furthermore, if this guy thinks party loyalty is the bee's knees then I wonder why/if he ever really supported Rand at all? There is no doubt that Grayson was the pick if you want party loyalty. .

Hi Marc.

I was fooled. I really thought Marc was coming around on at least some issues. Now it seems that he was just a fair weather Republican. (I think he waited until pretty late in the game to come out for Rand, didn't he?)

I hate it when that happens. But it's pretty ironic that he, of all people, is now issuing lectures about loyalty.

angelatc
04-04-2012, 10:07 AM
) Dang. I'd have really been FOR Marcus running, six months ago. I'll have to look into this recent stuff.

Yes - me too. I haven't paid too much attention because I don't live in KY, but I told my husband that it was amazing to think that if we lived there, we'd actually have a real, legitimate choice to make in that race.

Here's the article that is thin on fact and fat with denial: http://www.bluegrassbulletin.com/2012/04/ask-and-you-shall-receive-ron-paul-answers-my-question.html

Sola_Fide
04-04-2012, 11:12 AM
Oh its primary season, we should expect some mud-slinging. However if one wants to win an election, it will be about coalition building, not scorching the earth.

Yeah, I don't worry so much about Marcus because his campaign is going nowhere. He has no money, no organization... his "path to victory" seems to be telling people to visit his website. That is the number one sign of failure. Website campaigns don't work, even in the age of the internet. Tom Wurtz is doing the same thing in this race. Tom Wurtz and Marc Carey are basically at the same level of support...zero. The only thing I worry about is the other campaigns will start to pick up on his inconsistent arguments.

What is clear now (especially with his recent posts) is that Marcus' intention is to try everything he can to tie Thomas in with the Ron Paul "kookiness". He thinks that if he can tell enough Tea Partiers that Ron Paul is dangerous, and this guy Thomas has some Ron Paul-like ideas, then Thomas is unelectable. But in my conversations I am seeing the OPPOSITE happening. In the 4th District especially, Tea Partiers are becoming more open to issues like ending the FED and scaling back our nation-building.

If Thomas can make the case to Tea Partiers that he is a Republican in the mold of Rand Paul, he will win. Conservatives in Kentucky love Rand Paul and are very proud of his outspoken conservatism. Being in the mold of Rand Paul is a WINNING formula for Kentucky and the 4th District.

But I expect Alicia and Gary to follow similar styles of attacks as the ones Marcus is using. This is the template that Trey Greyson tried to use against Rand. It didn't work. The Tea Parties in Northern Kentucky especially are cut from a different cloth than your average Tea Party.

specsaregood
04-04-2012, 11:16 AM
What is clear now (especially with his recent posts) is that Marcus' intention is to try everything he can to tie Thomas in with the Ron Paul "kookiness". He thinks that if he can tell enough Tea Partiers that Ron Paul is dangerous, and this guy Thomas has some Ron Paul-like ideas, then Thomas is unelectable. But in my conversations I am seeing the OPPOSITE happening. In the 4th District especially, Tea Partiers are becoming more open to issues like ending the FED and scaling back our nation-building.

Yeah, i don't think that is a winning strategy. Even many of the people that hate the idea of a Ron Paul presidency will tell you that they like him as a congressman.

Cowlesy
04-04-2012, 11:34 AM
Such a letdown as I really enjoyed his blog. Hope he mends more fences and stops torching bridges. Geesh.

Sola_Fide
04-04-2012, 11:39 AM
I donated a bit to Massie but haven't been following his race, really.

SailingAway,

PLEASE get more in to this race! This race needs your activism:)

BamaFanNKy
04-04-2012, 06:46 PM
Such a letdown as I really enjoyed his blog. Hope he mends more fences and stops torching bridges. Geesh.

Marcus knew he could troll the board for readers. He's a fake.

nobody's_hero
04-05-2012, 02:37 PM
This could just as easily have been written in and applied to the Georgia GOP. Especially a comment like:


While Senator Paul is entitled to his opinion, I believe he is wrong. I know Ken Moellman and have no problem at all with him seeking to be placed on the ballot either as an Independent or as a candidate of the organized Libertarian Party where he has served as an officer. This is not about Mr. Moellman, it is about honor, and duty for those who are elected to office, whether public office or party office, under the banner of the Republican Party of Kentucky.

The goal of the Republican Party of Kentucky is to elect republicans to office. Those who seek the party's nomination, hold office under its banner and serve as party officers must be devoted to the party's principles and loyal to its candidates. That is clearly expressed in the preamble to the rules.

They firmly believe that the republican party's job is to elect republicans. It is not to fight for smaller government, it is to elect republicans. (at all costs, and most often, at *high* costs to freedom)

Sola_Fide
04-05-2012, 03:12 PM
Ken Moellman was an awesome candidate too. I voted for him. He ran on a platform of eliminating his own job.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l52ntSHBZYk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

John Taylor
04-19-2012, 05:28 PM
Ouch. That's pretty damning.

There is nothing wrong with this ad whatsoever, it simply offers legal services and explains the protections of the United States Bankruptcy Code to folks watching TV in a 30 second spot. I don't believe Mr. Carey is somehow compromised in his convictions because he has practiced bankruptcy law or assisted people in filing for bankruptcy protection. Perhaps the word choice wasn't optimal, but the reality is that filing for bankruptcy protection is indeed a government intervention to stop the pursuit of a reprobate debtor by [a] creditor[s].

Mr. Carey's point is actually well made, if we as constitutional conservatives/classical liberals are going to continue to retake the Republican Party, it is incumbent on us to not act as partisans for other political organizations. It was by breathing our principles into the GOP that Rand's strategy in 2010 was accomplished, and I think Mr. Carey is correct (even if doctrinaire) in insisting on its 2012 application.

EDIT: I have since more thoroughly reviewed Mr. Carey's documented propensity to attack Mr. Massie, & I think some of these attacks on him to be more justified...

John Taylor
04-19-2012, 05:30 PM
Marcus knew he could troll the board for readers. He's a fake.

A fake....?