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View Full Version : Say good bye to the Canadian penny




Christianlibertarian
03-29-2012, 08:15 PM
Thought this was interesting and that some of you would think so too. Kind of scary.

http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/blogs/sideshow/canada-says-going-pull-penny-circulation-221558392.html?orig_host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=us&.lang=en-us

WilliamC
03-29-2012, 08:18 PM
There is still copper in circulation, but not for much longer I'm guessing...

onlyrp
03-29-2012, 08:32 PM
I love how people make it a big deal about how it's some lost money or lost convenience. The question is, why do people and businesses still use it?

Zippyjuan
03-29-2012, 09:05 PM
Now they will round up to the nearest nickel. What would have been say eight cents would be a dime. Multiply that by millions of transactions.

They are also changing all of their "paper" (if it is like the US- linen actually) notes into plastic polymer notes as well.
Another link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/business/global/in-canada-the-pennys-time-to-shine-is-over.html

LibertyEagle
03-29-2012, 09:31 PM
Use it or lose it. They've been wanting to go electronic currency for a long time. When that happens, kiss any vestige of privacy bye bye.

Lishy
03-29-2012, 09:48 PM
Good riddance to the penny. I'm saving em' just to show off though.

I'm Canadian, so I'm aware about the plastic thing, but don't see why it's a bad decision. Isn't plastic money more durable too? And cleaner to produce?

RonRules
03-29-2012, 09:48 PM
eh there,

I just made some Canadian election 2011 charts here: Post #81
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?369316-Evidence-of-election-fraud-piling-up/page9

Phil
03-29-2012, 09:50 PM
Canadian pennies will still be in circulation here though :p

Lishy
03-29-2012, 09:51 PM
Sometimes I get American pennies from vending machines o.o

kezt777
03-29-2012, 09:55 PM
Ive held the new polymer money when i got $100s from the bank (and then put them on groceries, so precious little time with the pretty new bills) and the 50s are out now too..... but I have since heard that they are not as durable as first portrayed a couple years ago when the news broke. I clearly recall the newsies saying that you can even wash them and they won't get wrecked. a good thing for those who dont check pockets when doing laundry, right? well --- ive since heard many stories about how the bills do not survive the DRYER. oopsy. I cannot test this myself yet because i am not putting a 100 or 50 dollar bill in the dryer lol. I will wait patiently for the 5s to finally come out in a year or so, then test the theory on my own :) So i cannot answer the durability Q fully for awhile yet ;)

As for the penny, apparently it costs more to produce now than it's worth. So while it's prob good to get rid of it - we have to wonder what that means about our money. Weve been doing great against the US dollar for a long time (shopping on Ebay is fun for me right now), but that's where the fun ends. The Canadian dollar doing well against a failing US dollar is nothing to crow about!

As for the copper part, we have been collecting the old pennies for a long time, the ones that actually have copper in them,1996 and older, and the last time I checked, $2 of our old pennies is worth over $4 for the copper if we were to sell them all right now. It's more of a fun thing for us (we are saving 1967 and older silver coins as well) but hey - we might really need that cash one day!

Lishy
03-29-2012, 09:58 PM
So each penny prior to 1996 is actually 2 cents?

I'll keep that in mind and collect them for when their value goes up...

kezt777
03-29-2012, 10:11 PM
So each penny prior to 1996 is actually 2 cents?

I'll keep that in mind and collect them for when their value goes up...

My bf and I did some investigating online after checking the copper price on the stock exchange tickers, and found tons of sites listing the amount of pennies needed to match that weight and it was about $2 worth of pennies, 4 rolls, that made the $4 price at that time. The price goes up and down. The last time I peeked it was at $3.81 but I just keep in mind that 4 rolls of pennies equalled the weight for the stock exchange prices and go from there. Like silver - we bought a few silver one ounce coins from a few coin dealers in town when it was $18/oz and it went up to $44/oz or so in a year, now it's like $33/oz or so. But it is higher than what we paid so yipppeee lol. We plan to hold onto them for a long time, and add more as the dealers around here decide to let a few go, to see what they will be worth eventually. I wish we had found more at $18 a piece but the dealers were hoarding I think lol.

ronpaulfollower999
03-30-2012, 04:30 AM
Thats what happens when you debase a currency.

Lishy
03-30-2012, 05:33 AM
TBH all the Canadians I speak to DON'T miss the penny!

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 05:51 AM
Ketz, regarding polymer notes...they do not withstand heat very well! Mexico has had them for about 10 years and they do melt!

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 05:52 AM
TBH all the Canadians I speak to DON'T miss the penny!

Yeah well just wait until a nickel is also worthless, then a dime, then a quarter...pretty soon you wot even be able to buy a liter of gas with a loonie...oh wait, you already can't.

kezt777
03-30-2012, 07:02 AM
I guess what I don't like is the rounding up part... someone talked about how places will have to change their prices so you don't end up with '.98' or '.37' but that is also a cost to businesses that is forced on them. Places like Walmart always have items sold for .88 as a gimmick, for example. At least our GST went down to 5% awhile back, so that will help more than the 7% gst would have lol. Things that were always 99 cents will be priced at $1.00 now, unless the business decides to go with 95 cents instead, which is doubtful. So in my mind, the little tiny price increase that will result from this is a price increase that all of us will have to carry and it will add up. I have no idea when the penny wont be in circulation anymore - I assume that it will take awhile because I remember when the $1 and $2 bills were axed for the loonie and toonie - stores could still accept them for ages and banks would trade them for the new coins for a long time... I guess this could mean longer lines at the banks while people go through all their penny jars to make sure they don't lose out on trading them for other cash.

Another thought - my kids' school's biggest fundraiser for the longest time has been the Penny Drive. It raises more money than ones where products are purchased because I guess people have a lot of pennies sitting around and they sure add up fast. I helped count two diff years and we could barely lift the penny buckets lol. But that will end now I guess? At least once they are out of circulation. So maybe we will have to do a nickel drive from now on? I don't know if that will bring in as much cash because they are heavier and worth more, and fewer people may be willing to part with their nickels than their pennies... we shall see.

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 07:05 AM
I'm pretty sure pennies will continue to be legal tender, just they won't be produced anymore.

kezt777
03-30-2012, 07:07 AM
Yeah well just wait until a nickel is also worthless, then a dime, then a quarter...pretty soon you wot even be able to buy a liter of gas with a loonie...oh wait, you already can't.

Gasoline is 1.12/litre in my city despite being in the middle of oil and gas heaven... my father in law lives in a sask city 2 hours away and it went up to 1.279/liter yesterday. Friends near toronto have been paying more than 1.34/litre for ages... booooooooooooooo. People will have to be extra careful when filling their tanks so they don't accidentally go over $40.00 in case the store rounds it up on them. Right now the ones around here will round it down if you hit .01 or .02 but who knows. We already pay enough as it is.

kezt777
03-30-2012, 07:12 AM
I'm pretty sure pennies will continue to be legal tender, just they won't be produced anymore.

Ya they would still be legal tender but that does not mean businesses will accept them after a certain point. We could still collect pennies at the school because you just have to take them into a bank to get it totalled up and exchanged for 'current' currency, but there will be less pennies exchanged at stores once prices change so not as much for things like Penny Drive fundraisers (have been very popular)... that's not a major problem, it's just one of the things I thought about when saying bye bye to the penny. I worked in a gas station when the two dollar bill died and we did not accept them after a certain date because the boss did not like taking them to the bank separately from the rest of our deposits. At that time, he had to take them to his major branch across the city instead of taking them to the smaller branch that was close by. I often wonder what would happen if I showed up at a store with my old $1 bill I have - I imagine the young people working there would not know what it was and be confused about accepting it haha. Many stores refuse to accept 100s and 50s (old style) at all due to counterfeit problems so they can certainly refuse to take pennies if they decide that.

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 07:15 AM
Most young people would have no idea what a $1 or $2 bill are. I remember I was in kindergarten when they introduced the toonie, so I've really never experienced either banknote. I do have an uncut sheet of $2 bills though :)

Trigonx
03-30-2012, 08:19 AM
Sometimes I get American pennies from vending machines o.o

Vending machines in Canada take Pennies? I've never seen one accept pennies here, or I just don't use vending machines enough.

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 08:23 AM
Vending machines in Canada take Pennies? I've never seen one accept pennies here, or I just don't use vending machines enough.

Lol yeah I thought the same. I guess he meant American quarters and dimes which most Canadian vending machines accept. American machines always reject Canadian coins though, the size of Canadian and American coins are basically the same, but Canada uses zinc plated steel coin which have a different weight.

I've found it interesting though, basically every Canadian store will take American coins, but if you ever pay with Canadian coins in the US and the cashier notices they reject them. I guess this is because traditionally the Canadian dollar has been worth less.

Lishy
03-30-2012, 09:00 AM
Yeah, Canadians accept American pennies. Including vending machines! Weird how that works?

jmdrake
03-30-2012, 09:16 AM
The Canadian penny will still be accepted indefinitely as a form of currency, but the government says it will eventually require cash transactions to be rounded to the nearest five-cent increment. Customers are already forbidden from using more than 25 pennies in a single purchase.


So what does that mean for sales taxes? After all it's sales taxes that cause most transactions to end up requiring pennies. That plus the deceptive practice of charging "$1.99" for something.

Edit: Do Canadians have sales taxes?

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 09:27 AM
Edit: Do Canadians have sales taxes?

Yes, there's a national 5% sales tax called the Goods and Services Tax (GST)

Every province except Alberta also has its own sales tax. Usually it's called a Provincial Sales Tax and is calculated on top of the GST. Many provinces have been moving towards a single "Harmonized Sales Tax" (HST) which calculates both taxes together.

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 09:27 AM
The thing I hate in north America (Canada and US) is that sales tax isn't included in the price quoted. It's so nice here in Europe, if you buy something and it says it's €1, you pay €1. It's frustrated me so many times at McDonald's or other fast food where it says it's 99 for a hamburger and I have a loonie, but it ends up being $1.09 or so.

WilliamC
03-30-2012, 09:28 AM
The Canadian penny will still be accepted indefinitely as a form of currency, but the government says it will eventually require cash transactions to be rounded to the nearest five-cent increment. Customers are already forbidden from using more than 25 pennies in a single purchase.


So what does that mean for sales taxes? After all it's sales taxes that cause most transactions to end up requiring pennies. That plus the deceptive practice of charging "$1.99" for something.

Edit: Do Canadians have sales taxes?

Sales tax, reminds me in Mobile, AL last summer they actually lowered the total sales tax from 10% to 9% (the city actually let expire a 1 time increase).

As someone who regularly calculates the exact amount of a purchase on the fly and pays cash and who had heard about it on the radio the day it happened, I was in a position to observe how long it took local stores to enact this change.

Most seemed to within a few days, and when I'd mention it to sales clerks they didn't know anything about it but really didn't care.

But there was this one store, happened to be the closest to where I was staying, that took over 2 weeks to lower their rate. I pointed this out several times (but I don't think the sales clerk had any control over it) and kept getting completely blank looks and "I have no idea what you are talking about" when I pointed out they were overcharging.

Moral is I think a lot of people are greedy, but even more are just too stupid to know when they are getting fleeced. They can't comprehend percentages or multiply, so how do they even know how much something is supposed to cost?.

Lishy
03-30-2012, 09:40 AM
Taxes in Canada is too much. I bought an $880 laptop from Newegg, and after taxes it cost me $1024! WTF!?

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 09:42 AM
Taxes in Canada is too much. I bought an $880 laptop from Newegg, and after taxes it cost me $1024! WTF!?

Still lower than in Europe. EU law says no country can have a VAT lower than 15%. Spain's is 19% and no goods are exempt.

angelatc
03-30-2012, 09:48 AM
Still lower than in Europe. EU law says no country can have a VAT lower than 15%. Spain's is 19% and no goods are exempt.

But if you don't live in Europe you can get the VAT refunded. Not sure if Canada will let people do that.

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 09:49 AM
But if you don't live in Europe you can get the VAT refunded. Not sure if Canada will let people do that.

I do live in Europe though. And tourists don't get everything refunded.

MozoVote
03-30-2012, 10:10 AM
Just Google for "penny hoarding" ... this has been going on for several years.

We probably will stop minting penniesin the US within a decade. We got rid of the half cent coin long ago. There is a precedent.

I've always advocated lopping off a zero from the base currency in revaluation. Then pennies would be worth something. And gas would be 45 a gallon in California.

WilliamC
03-30-2012, 11:03 AM
Just Google for "penny hoarding" ... this has been going on for several years.

We probably will stop minting penniesin the US within a decade. We got rid of the half cent coin long ago. There is a precedent.

I've always advocated lopping off a zero from the base currency in revaluation. Then pennies would be worth something. And gas would be 45 a gallon in California.

Yea but the lopping would be applied across the board to everyone's salary and income and savings and investments as well.

People just need to figure out that the entire monetary system itself is counterfeit before we can really solve the problem, and the momentum is growing.

When the change comes it will come rapidly, and it won't all be bad.

In fact, it may very well be much better quickly the sooner it comes.

oyarde
03-30-2012, 11:15 AM
Yeah well just wait until a nickel is also worthless, then a dime, then a quarter...pretty soon you wot even be able to buy a liter of gas with a loonie...oh wait, you already can't. It currently costs more than a dime to make an American nickel.

oyarde
03-30-2012, 11:18 AM
Still lower than in Europe. EU law says no country can have a VAT lower than 15%. Spain's is 19% and no goods are exempt. Spain likes to match the tax with the unemployment rate :)

eduardo89
03-30-2012, 11:29 AM
Spain likes to match the tax with the unemployment rate :)

Then they need to increase the tax rate!

MozoVote
03-30-2012, 08:56 PM
It's pretty pathetic that in my own lifetime I have seen our currency degrade to "not too far away" from a tenth of what it was. I can remember seeing gas station signs at 59 cents a gallon when I was a child. A Big Gulp at 7-11 was 49 cents. A half pint of milk in the primary school cafeteria (...yes I know it was state subsidized, but still...) was only SIX cents.

I'm only in my mid 40s. This is not like talking about pricing from the Great Depression or something.

kezt777
03-31-2012, 12:38 AM
Yes, there's a national 5% sales tax called the Goods and Services Tax (GST)

Every province except Alberta also has its own sales tax. Usually it's called a Provincial Sales Tax and is calculated on top of the GST. Many provinces have been moving towards a single "Harmonized Sales Tax" (HST) which calculates both taxes together.

Being from Alberta, I always forget that the other provinces have sales tax... so yeah that's going to be all screwy eventually. Some are 11%, some are 14%... oh fun. It won't matter if items are no longer listed as $1.99 because even with $2, the funky tax totals will be a pain.

kezt777
03-31-2012, 12:40 AM
Yeah, Canadians accept American pennies. Including vending machines! Weird how that works?

I dont think I have ever seen a vending machine that accepts pennies in my whole life here in Canukia!

kezt777
03-31-2012, 12:43 AM
The thing I hate in north America (Canada and US) is that sales tax isn't included in the price quoted. It's so nice here in Europe, if you buy something and it says it's €1, you pay €1. It's frustrated me so many times at McDonald's or other fast food where it says it's 99 for a hamburger and I have a loonie, but it ends up being $1.09 or so.
ya i lived in england and liked that it was embedded so i knew what i was actually going to pay lol. not that i like taxes on all this stuff in the first place, but you didnt have to stand there like a dummy wondering if you had enough cash on you.

Lishy - you might have actually been hit with all the other charges too because we have to pay some enviro fees on computers, tvs, etc now. even a 10% tax on that laptop would have only been about $70. There are all sorts of hidden fees, and i think even that differs from province to province??? I havent paid attention when going to bc and sask if there is a different in charges like enviro fees on pop bottles and such. I will have to watch next time i am brave enough to venture out of alberta ;)

oyarde
03-31-2012, 10:17 AM
So , basically , you buy something at , say 5.41 , it just gets rounded up to 5.45 now ??

awake
03-31-2012, 10:25 AM
Simply evidence of the central counterfeiters at work, pay no attention to them they are harmless.

It costs way more to make them than what face value states; Gresham's law is in full effect - bad money drives good money out.

eduardo89
03-31-2012, 10:58 AM
So , basically , you buy something at , say 5.41 , it just gets rounded up to 5.45 now ??

Prices ending in 1, 2, 6 or 7 cents will probably be rounded down, prices ending in 3, 4, 8 or 9 cents rounded up. That's how the do it in the Netherlands and Australia iirc.

The curious thing is that the Netherlands doesn't use the 1 or 2 euro cent coins, same with Finland, but since the other euro countries produce them they are legal tender in the Netherlands and finland.

eduardo89
03-31-2012, 11:00 AM
ya i lived in england and liked that it was embedded so i knew what i was actually going to pay lol. not that i like taxes on all this stuff in the first place, but you didnt have to stand there like a dummy wondering if you had enough cash on you.

Lishy - you might have actually been hit with all the other charges too because we have to pay some enviro fees on computers, tvs, etc now. even a 10% tax on that laptop would have only been about $70. There are all sorts of hidden fees, and i think even that differs from province to province??? I havent paid attention when going to bc and sask if there is a different in charges like enviro fees on pop bottles and such. I will have to watch next time i am brave enough to venture out of alberta ;)

I haven't lived in BC for about 7 years now, but I remember there was a 5 per can deposit. You get it back if you take the can in for recycling. Not sure about bottles though. And I can't remember about any other enviro fees or taxes.

oyarde
03-31-2012, 12:11 PM
Even a few states in the US have the can & bottle thing , if I recall.

enter`name`here
04-04-2012, 07:19 AM
Here in Nova scotia you pay 10c and get 5c when you bring them back.

Since I heard the news about the penny, I have been considering going to the bank and purchasing $50 worth (2 boxes), i just hope that when you buy a box you don`t only get new pennies as the older ones actually contain pure copper. The Gf thinks I am insane lol.

The Goat
04-04-2012, 08:10 AM
surprised that no one has posted up coinflation yet.

copper is down, copper US pennies (pre-1982) were up close to 3 Cent no long ago.


Canada Coin Melt Values
http://www.coinflation.com/canada/

US coin Melt Values
http://www.coinflation.com/

Pericles
04-04-2012, 08:36 AM
So long, its been good to know you.

2young2vote
04-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Even a few states in the US have the can & bottle thing , if I recall.

Yes, here in michigan we get 10 cents for every can and bottle (both glass and plastic) that had carbonated liquid in it. That means when you by a 24 pack of Pepsi, you are paying $2.40 extra so you can get that same $2.40 back when you return the cans. People think they are making something, but the truth is all they are doing is getting their own money back. Businesses don't eat the cost, they just pass it on to the customer.

Canadian currency makes up quite a large part of the money I get at work. We might get 50 cents a day in Canadian coins (then there is the amount that we receive from customers, then give back out as change so it could be quite a bit higher). That is actually quite a bit when you consider we are open for 300 days of the year. It is possible that we receive over $100 a year in foreign currency. Although, you don't even notice until you count it. The coins are exactly the same size and when you are really busy you just don't pay attention to the design on the coin.

The truth is they are interchangeable. One valueless currency for another.

kezt777
04-04-2012, 11:33 PM
I haven't lived in BC for about 7 years now, but I remember there was a 5 per can deposit. You get it back if you take the can in for recycling. Not sure about bottles though. And I can't remember about any other enviro fees or taxes.

In Alberta it recently went up. It's 10 cents per can (you pay the 10 cents plus a separate enviro handling fee on the bill and get only the 10 cents back) but it's like 25 cents for the 2 litre bottles and they do milk jugs for the same (25 for the four liter jugs but im not sure how much for the waxed cartons). We have a massive stack of cases (POP not beer lol) in the basement waiting til just before we go on holiday for gas money. Almost $200 now lol. But the separate enviro charge has been there for a few years now. It's not much, maybe 5 cents or something. But that adds up too of course and you dont get that back. Supposedly it goes to helping recycle them but who really knows.

kezt777
04-04-2012, 11:38 PM
The truth is they are interchangeable. One valueless currency for another.

that's about it. but i do recall when i was a child/teen, going down into Montana, if you tried to sneak in a canadian coin they would have a fit at the store lol. Back then it was about 70 cents but now it's pretty much par 97 to 99 cents or higher, and recently we went over the US dollar again but the news didnt let that out this time (not that i saw). I noticed when I went to buy stuff on ebay in February and it was cheaper for me to order from the US lol. Shipping cost me $9.80 Canadian instead of the $9.99US that was posted. yee hawwww ;) I have spent years not wanting to buy stuff in US$ on ebay because it would cost me even more.

But it's all a sad state of affairs really. I found out tonight that the Australian dollar and Canadian are almost the same too. $1CAD is 0.97AUD so that means Aussies are pretty much on par with the US dollar as well, after years of being apart.

Paul Or Nothing II
04-05-2012, 01:02 AM
Use it or lose it. They've been wanting to go electronic currency for a long time. When that happens, kiss any vestige of privacy bye bye.

No worries, markets will get around it, as they always do!

There will be physical currencies on the black-market as usual, of course, they'll be "illegal" but people will use it if the cost-benefit dictates that using them will be better than using government-fiction!

Of course, it won't necessarily be good but just saying that it won't necessarily be the end of physical currencies! Yes, we do need to go more with physical currencies, especially those which can't be created in abundance at a fraction of their face-value but unfortunate thing is that some within the liberty movement are pushing for completely fictional currency, & trying to help out the government in going all fictional, you know the whole Shitcoin thing that's getting famous among some libertarians! :rolleyes:

czarinaB
05-11-2012, 01:26 AM
The last Canadian cent ever to be made came off the press on Friday. Experts predict the eradication will save the northern nation $11 million a year. Some say the same move should take place in the U.S., as well. Canada mints its last penny. Should the U.S., too (http://personalmoneynetwork.com/moneyblog/2012/05/08/eliminating-penny/)? The United States mints more pennies than Canada and at a greater loss. Each United States penny costs about 2.41 cents to make. The United States coins can save a staggering $70 million annually by losing the copper Lincoln-headed disks.