**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

[Anti Federalist]

This'll get your older-RPFer conspiracy radar going.

I was having a discussion with someone about this last night, bringing them up to speed on the case. Here comes what's likely a long, hot summer. There's a big political race. People are already pissed about the economy and other crap (but in misguided ways). People get killed and maimed regularly.

But where did this kid get killed?

Less than two hours from Tampa where the GOP Convention is going to be :eek:

mmkay proceed.

That was posted in the main thread on the subject.

I've got an even better conspiracy.

The Martin shooting has been bubbling in the background for a month now.

But it just blew up now.

Sure took that story of the Afghan village slaughter off the front page, didn't it now?

[phill4paul]

Yes. Yes, it did.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Oh look, the coincidence theorist are at it again.

;)

[anoNY]

I have spent the last few hours mapping out the times and events that happened that day using Google Maps. Looking at the record and the times that things were alleged to have happened, there is no way that the media portrayal of this incident is correct.

I suggest you do as I did and mark off where and when each event took place and then think about the timing of the calls. All of this info is widely available.

Here are some interesting facts:
- Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman and was lost to Zimmerman's view for 5 whole minutes. Trayvon's father's condo was only 100 yards away, why didn't he go and stay there?
- Trayvon's girlfriend talked to him for 4 minutes AFTER Zimmerman had already lost sight of Trayvon.
- How did the heavyset Zimmerman ever catch up to the athletic Trayvon? Especially since Trayvon had a 5 minute head start (Zimmerman lost Trayvon for 5 minutes)
- What does Trayvon's stepbrother say about that night? He was at the condo and the two kids were supposed to watch the All Star game together. Did he hear the gun shot?
- If Trayvon ran from Zimmerman for 5 minutes, how did he not cover the 100 yards to his house, and how did he end up only about 30 yards from where he ran past Zimmerman in the first place?

I personally think Trayvon ran away and then came back. I cannot otherwise explain the fact that he did not run straight home, 100 yards away.

[TheTexan]

I like how this country randomly chooses an incident to get mad about, but doesn't care about the rest.

Or is it random???? Discuss.

[BamaAla]

It took the Jena 6 debacle five months to blowup. It's all about timing.

[Anti Federalist]

You want this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?366419-Teenager-killed-by-neighborhood-watch-captain



I have spent the last few hours mapping out the times and events that happened that day using Google Maps. Looking at the record and the times that things were alleged to have happened, there is no way that the media portrayal of this incident is correct.

I suggest you do as I did and mark off where and when each event took place and then think about the timing of the calls. All of this info is widely available.

Here are some interesting facts:
- Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman and was lost to Zimmerman's view for 5 whole minutes. Trayvon's father's condo was only 100 yards away, why didn't he go and stay there?
- Trayvon's girlfriend talked to him for 4 minutes AFTER Zimmerman had already lost sight of Trayvon.
- How did the heavyset Zimmerman ever catch up to the athletic Trayvon? Especially since Trayvon had a 5 minute head start (Zimmerman lost Trayvon for 5 minutes)
- What does Trayvon's stepbrother say about that night? He was at the condo and the two kids were supposed to watch the All Star game together. Did he hear the gun shot?
- If Trayvon ran from Zimmerman for 5 minutes, how did he not cover the 100 yards to his house, and how did he end up only about 30 yards from where he ran past Zimmerman in the first place?

I personally think Trayvon ran away and then came back. I cannot otherwise explain the fact that he did not run straight home, 100 yards away.

[MelissaWV]

Zimmerman had a car.

100 yards away from my house is another house, but I'd have to travel about a mile to actually get there. If I were running away and needed to call someone, I'd run out of sight, take a turn, then make the call. I would be unlikely to get to the other house (or my house from that house) in a few minutes without cutting through yards and jumping fences.

* * *

These things are not uncommon, so you have to ask why THIS story. It's not a conspiracy. It's tracing back the steps that the media itself took in deciding what sells and what to push.

[Anti Federalist]

It's all about timing.

Precisely my point.

[r3volution]

I like how this country randomly chooses an incident to get mad about, but doesn't care about the rest.

Or is it random???? Discuss.

i agree . this shit happens every day . why this 1 ? because it divides people that normally agree , gust look at the discussion about it on this site .

[1stAmendguy]

The globalist owned media will use anything as a political distraction to divert attention away from the real issues and their agendas.

[Brian4Liberty]

Racial Politics. A perfect red herring campaign issue. Also goes nicely with the people who have an irrational fear of guns (except in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement, who are professionally trained to "accidentally" kill innocent people.)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LXxSHtFuqSo/TFe5yKgzbAI/AAAAAAAAANw/3HtNLHPCYo4/s1600/RedHerring.jpg

[BlackTerrel]

That was posted in the main thread on the subject.

I've got an even better conspiracy.

The Martin shooting has been bubbling in the background for a month now.

But it just blew up now.

Sure took that story of the Afghan village slaughter off the front page, didn't it now?

Is there a time that it could have become big where it wouldn't be "suspicious timing"? There is ALWAYS ten other things going on.

Somethings like Kony blow up really fast and then disappear just as fast. Other things the momentum takes a little longer.

There is no way the media could have ignored this story much longer when there were over a million people signing petitions with NBA athletes and Hollywood stars and the blogosphere and Church email lists and blogosphere all abuzz over this.

Maybe LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, my mom's Church email list and the more than a million people who signed the petition are involved in the conspiracy.

Or maybe this is a case that resonates with a lot of people.

As far as the Afghan village slaughter - everyone agrees that is completely fucked and the guy should be tried for murder. There is not much debate.

This case is different in that the perpetrator is free.

[coastie]

Is there a time that it could have become big where it wouldn't be "suspicious timing"? There is ALWAYS ten other things going on.

Somethings like Kony blow up really fast and then disappear just as fast. Other things the momentum takes a little longer.

There is no way the media could have ignored this story much longer when there were over a million people signing petitions with NBA athletes and Hollywood stars and the blogosphere and Church email lists and blogosphere all abuzz over this.

Maybe LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, my mom's Church email list and the more than a million people who signed the petition are involved in the conspiracy.

Or maybe this is a case that resonates with a lot of people.

As far as the Afghan village slaughter - everyone agrees that is completely fucked and the guy should be tried for murder. There is not much debate.

This case is different in that the perpetrator is free.


I tend to agree with Terrel here, I don't see a conspiracy here at all and I will say that I am definitely one to entertain conspiracies when they come up.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Racial Politics. A perfect red herring campaign issue. Also goes nicely with the people who have an irrational fear of guns (except in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement, who are professionally trained to "accidentally" kill innocent people.)

I wish people would get this upset when cops kill innocent unarmed people. Whether Martin was that or not, I don't know. But you don't have to look long to find much of that from law enforcement where the cases against the officers are obvious. And we hear crickets.

[No Free Beer]

I don't even understand why this story has blown up...

[coastie]

I don't even understand why this story has blown up...

nvm

[BlackTerrel]

I don't even understand why this story has blown up...

Let me see if I can help you. Most people I know agree that this sort of America is fucked up

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/7/8/9/5/5/3/Trayvon-Martin-Will-Smith-72644901534.jpeg#Trayvon%20Martin%2C%20Will%20Smit h

[Noob]

Racial Politics. A perfect red herring campaign issue. Also goes nicely with the people who have an irrational fear of guns (except in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement, who are professionally trained to "accidentally" kill innocent people.)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LXxSHtFuqSo/TFe5yKgzbAI/AAAAAAAAANw/3HtNLHPCYo4/s1600/RedHerring.jpg

Indeed, since this as not been in the national news.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station

[BamaAla]

.n.v.m.

[azxd]

Oh look, the coincidence theorist are at it again.

;)
The place is full of them ... Always looking for an excuse.

[MelissaWV]

The place is full of them ... Always looking for an excuse.

As others have pointed out, this story does strike a chord with a lot of people.

It's not a conspiracy or coincidence. It's how the news gets reported. At any given moment, there are "big stories" available that fill just about any category. People are talking about how big stars must have been part of the conspiracy. Nope. They were part of the reaction. The reaction is coming now, and not when this actually happened, just like the Kony video didn't pop up when the child armies were even en vogue.

So why did the media decide to play this particular story to death right now?

That's not begging for a conspiracy. That's just critical thinking.

Look up the term "brutal slaying" sometime. There are seriously lots and lots of local stories that could be blown up to a national level. Why the media picks one, and not another, is actually a "science" of sorts.

[MelissaWV]

A Baltimore prosecutor offered jurors in a murder trial a painful and troubling portrait Wednesday of the victim's final moments, describing how a killer "suffocated and butchered" the boy, whose screams for help she said went unheard by a relative who had passed out from heroin.

Assistant State's Attorney Jennifer Hastings held up two oversized pictures of 15-year-old Jason Mattison Jr., pointed to the suspect sitting just feet from the Circuit Court jury and said the victim "met with a nightmare, and that nightmare is Dante Parrish."

Parrish is a convicted murderer whose sentenced was reduced with the help of the Innocence Project.

...

Jason had been a standout at West Baltimore's Vivian T. Thomas Medical Arts Academy, a school oriented toward students wanting to become doctors, nurses and paramedics. Lauded as talkative, bright and friendly, the lanky teen made no secret that he was gay, displaying a witty attitude and quirky dress.

He felt at home at school, where 80 percent of the 425 students were female, often arriving before the first bell and staying long after the day had ended to do homework. People, including his family, were less accepting of his sexual identity, and the prosecutor said he was not welcome in his grandmother's or mother's homes.

"He went from place to place to keep a roof over his head," Hastings said in court. He felt welcome at the house owned by his great-aunt on Llewellyn Avenue, but the prosecutor said there was little adult supervision, many occupants spent the days shooting heroin, drinking and playing cards, and keeping the front door open to random visitors.




Now THAT is a terrible story.

[azxd]

As others have pointed out, this story does strike a chord with a lot of people.

It's not a conspiracy or coincidence. It's how the news gets reported. At any given moment, there are "big stories" available that fill just about any category. People are talking about how big stars must have been part of the conspiracy. Nope. They were part of the reaction. The reaction is coming now, and not when this actually happened, just like the Kony video didn't pop up when the child armies were even en vogue.

So why did the media decide to play this particular story to death right now?

That's not begging for a conspiracy. That's just critical thinking.

Look up the term "brutal slaying" sometime. There are seriously lots and lots of local stories that could be blown up to a national level. Why the media picks one, and not another, is actually a "science" of sorts.
Yea, it's called bullshit stories, and this thread along with the other threads about this story prove that the MSM is doing a great job at distracting the public from the things that matter.

I have little hope for this nation, and only hope I am not seriously F'd with before I depart this place.

[AuH20]

Will Smith and all other sanctimonious black celebrities need to wake up from their ethnic induced slumber. Jon Corzine essentially steals 1.5 billion dollars and then proceeds to commit perjury during a congressional inquiry, and he's walking around free. That act of heinous theft and manipulation upon thousands of investors far exceeds anything Zimmerman did, but I don't hear any cries for justice. I can't understand how the sheep in this country are so low brow, myopic and ignorant.

[MelissaWV]

Of course. If you think the death of one person is important, then you must automatically not give a shit about the trouble the nation is in.

What sound logic.

[AuH20]

Of course. If you think the death of one person is important, then you must automatically not give a shit about the trouble the nation is in.

What sound logic.

Look at the intensity of the media coverage. The marches. I'm pretty sure there is an agenda being pushed. And it's disgusting. No peep about Corzine or Fast and furious? Meanwhile, a black kid gets shot and it's as big as the OJ trial.

[kylejack]

Look at the intensity of the media coverage. The marches. I'm pretty sure there is an agenda being pushed. And it's disgusting. No peep about Corzine or Fast and furious? Meanwhile, black kid gets shot and it's as big as the OJ trial.
Yeah, the agenda is that racism is a vile, disgusting thing, especially so when institutionalized. It's an agenda I support 100%.

If you want marches about economic injustice and banksters stealing all our money, there's a really big one I can refer you to called Occupy.

[azxd]

Of course. If you think the death of one person is important, then you must automatically not give a shit about the trouble the nation is in.

What sound logic.
BINGO and + REP to you !!!

[AuH20]

Yeah, the agenda is that racism is a vile, disgusting thing, especially so when institutionalized. It's an agenda I support 100%.

How do you know racism precipitated the incident?

[kylejack]

How do you know racism precipitated the incident?
Because Zimmerman said "fucking coons" on the 911 call just a few minutes before gunning down a kid with Skittles and iced tea.

[azxd]

Yeah, the agenda is that racism is a vile, disgusting thing, especially so when institutionalized. It's an agenda I support 100%.

If you want marches about economic injustice and banksters stealing all our money, there's a really big one I can refer you to called Occupy.Occupy is for assholes who just want to gripe about their personal problems, and lay blame upon others for their misfortunes.

[AuH20]

Because Zimmerman said "fucking coons" on the 911 call just a few minutes before gunning down a kid with Skittles and iced tea.

That's still up for interpretation. Fucking punks or fucking coons has not been confirmed.

[MelissaWV]

Because Zimmerman said "fucking coons" on the 911 call just a few minutes before gunning down a kid with Skittles and iced tea.

Actually it's also been alleged, after some analysis, that he said "fucking punk(s)."

[kylejack]

Sounds like coons to me, but regardless, Zimmerman made 46 calls to police since January 2011, often reporting "suspicious black males", once a kid who was "7 to 9 years old." I've called the police like twice in my entire life.

[azxd]

Actually it's also been alleged, after some analysis, that he said "fucking punk(s)."YES, kill white kids on dope ... Or we could blame the band that made the prhase popular.

Allegations are like............................................ Sorry the forum says I can't give you any more REP right now.

[Zatch]

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

[kylejack]

Occupy is for assholes who just want to gripe about their personal problems, and lay blame upon others for their misfortunes.
Their most common chant is "banks got bailed out, we got sold out." Who disagrees with that? Occupy is many things, but the poster seemed to be complaining that there wasn't media coverage or marches about the fleecing banksters have done...there have been plenty of both, including extensive media coverage of Corzine.

[azxd]

Sounds like coons to me, but regardless, Zimmerman made 46 calls to police since January 2011, often reporting "suspicious black males", once a kid who was "7 to 9 years old."Source doesn't matter, but ... It does add to the drama of an intentionally misguided nation.

[azxd]

Their most common chant is "banks got bailed out, we got sold out." Who disagrees with that? Occupy is many things, but the poster seemed to be complaining that there wasn't media coverage or marches about the fleecing banksters have done...there have been plenty of both, including extensive media coverage of Corzine.We can focus on trivial BS, or stuff that matters ... Time to make some decisions ;)

P.S. I like these threads ... They remove the mind from what ails the nation.

[AuH20]

Their most common chant is "banks got bailed out, we got sold out." Who disagrees with that? Occupy is many things, but the poster seemed to be complaining that there wasn't media coverage or marches about the fleecing banksters have done...there have been plenty of both, including extensive media coverage of Corzine.

Haven't seen any anti-Jon Corzine marches of late or celebrities specifically asking him to be "brought to justice." It seems that this story has been artificially pushed to the forefront to create a greater divide. Like I said, it's tragic but doesn't deserve the incredible scrutiny it's been getting.

[Noob]

Because Zimmerman said "fucking coons" on the 911 call just a few minutes before gunning down a kid with Skittles and iced tea.
Here is the transcript of the 911 call.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcrip%E2%80%8Bt-zimmerman.html

[William R]

bump

[AuH20]

Anyone else notice the way the media has dressed up the entire narrative?

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon_martingeorge_zimmerman2012-wide1.jpg

See that isn't a current picture of Trayvon but rather this is:

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Ax26X.jpg

But obviously that photo doesn't generate the same sympathy as the one at the top. The media is rotten to the core and that's not to say that Zimmerman may have not committed a serious crime. But it's interesting to see how they craft a narrative which suits the agenda they are pushing.

[Bruno]

Wow, that was worth the read. I had no idea of the size difference between the two, nor any of the other details that paint a far different picture.

[BlackTerrel]

Wow he was suspended from school. And when you click on the link it shows that he also.... had a tattoooo... oh the horror :rolleyes:

Clearly this is relevant as to why he was unarmed and shot dead in cold blood.

[kylejack]

Here is the transcript of the 911 call.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcrip%E2%80%8Bt-zimmerman.html
Right, and I know what it sounds like to me. Regardless, Zimmerman has a history of calling the police about suspicious black males, none of who seem to have been arrested.

[MelissaWV]

Wow, that was worth the read. I had no idea of the size difference between the two, nor any of the other details that paint a far different picture.

You had no idea Zimmerman had 110 pounds on Martin? And an SUV and a gun? Martin was taller.

I doubt his alleged pot use, gold teeth, or (gasp!) tattoo gave him much of an advantage.

The only even mildly relevant thing would be the assault on a bus driver, if it ever happened, but so far the "evidence" of that seems to be one tweet. I won't get into what people tweet about one another.


Instead of that, we are seeing long suspensions from school, tattoos, racially-charged epitaphs, and violence.

Add to the list of things you should not do: get gold teeth, get suspended (I was suspended for a "weapons charge" when I was in school), get inked, and have idiotic friends who talk about you being violent against someone (no proof yet, though, just like Zimmerman's "prior bad acts" that are just rumor and innuendo).

Did Zimmerman have any ink!?!?!? It seems he wore an earring!

People are really grasping at straws :(

[AuH20]

Wow, that was worth the read. I had no idea of the size difference between the two, nor any of the other details that paint a far different picture.

Exactly. And he supposedly swung at a bus driver a few days before. This wasn't the meek Steve Urkel type the media has been pushing. Look, I hope the justice system gets this right, whatever decision it arrives at.

[bluesc]

I guess I'm the only one who really doesn't give a shit about this case.

[TheTexan]

I honestly don't know who was right or wrong here. What I do know, is that this story is very divisive, and after the two groups get done tearing each other apart, nothing good will have come of it. Then we just wait for the next divisive story and repeat this cycle, ad infinitum.

Pass. I want no part in this.

[Anti Federalist]

The last line of the article:


This is a textbook self-defense case, and I’d urge anyone reading to look at the full set of facts before drawing conclusions.

No it is not, based on the facts so far presented.

Self defense with deadly force is not justified, legally, if you provoke or prolong or instigate an altercation that otherwise would not have happened had you not done so.

"Stand your ground" laws do not change that.

[Zatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H39LWjrFXC4

[TruthisTreason]

Wow he was suspended from school. And when you click on the link it shows that he also.... had a tattoooo... oh the horror :rolleyes:

Clearly this is relevant as to why he was unarmed and shot dead in cold blood.

Exactly! And OMG he had a screen name that wasn't politically correct, oh dear God, the horror!

[BlackTerrel]

As others have pointed out, this story does strike a chord with a lot of people.

It's not a conspiracy or coincidence. It's how the news gets reported. At any given moment, there are "big stories" available that fill just about any category. People are talking about how big stars must have been part of the conspiracy. Nope. They were part of the reaction. The reaction is coming now, and not when this actually happened, just like the Kony video didn't pop up when the child armies were even en vogue.

So why did the media decide to play this particular story to death right now?

That's not begging for a conspiracy. That's just critical thinking.

Look up the term "brutal slaying" sometime. There are seriously lots and lots of local stories that could be blown up to a national level. Why the media picks one, and not another, is actually a "science" of sorts.

We live in the age of internet and social media. This story would have blown up regardless and it would have had people questioning why the media wasn't touching it. This was popping up on my facebook and on my mom's Church email list before I heard about it in the media and local people were reaching out to media and celebs to get it more coverage.

The fact is this is a case where more coverage will be a good thing. If not for the coverage Zimmerman would have gotten away 100% free. I am glad it is being covered so MAYBE justice will be served.

[BlackTerrel]

Yeah, the agenda is that racism is a vile, disgusting thing, especially so when institutionalized. It's an agenda I support 100%.

If you want marches about economic injustice and banksters stealing all our money, there's a really big one I can refer you to called Occupy.

This and +rep

[RonPaulMall]

The last line of the article:



No it is not, based on the facts so far presented.

Self defense with deadly force is not justified, legally, if you provoke or prolong or instigate an altercation that otherwise would not have happened had you not done so.

"Stand your ground" laws do not change that.

Actually, from the facts presented thus far, it is absolutely a textbook case of self defense. In what crazy world is going outside to ask a suspicious lurker who he is and what he's doing constitute "instigating an altercation"? This is a free country. You, I, or George Zimmerman have every right to follow a stranger in public, and when we catch up to them and get their attention, ask them any question we so desire. And likewise, the person we are talking to has every right to tell us to "fuck off", and walk away. What they don't have the right to do is physically assault us. And that is what Trayvon Martin is accused of doing, and why according to the SYG law this was a justifiable homicide.

[anewvoice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H39LWjrFXC4

^This

[Sam I am]

The point is that Trayvon isn't quite as affable as he's been portrayed, which matters somewhat because it does paint a picture of someone, who might be quick to get into a fistfight.

The points raised in the article, however are extremely weak, and even if Trayvon did throw the first punch, that's not good enough for a self defense case.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Anyone else notice the way the media has dressed up the entire narrative?

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon_martingeorge_zimmerman2012-wide1.jpg

See that isn't a current picture of Trayvon but rather this is:

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Ax26X.jpg

But obviously that photo doesn't generate the same sympathy as the one at the top. The media is rotten to the core and that's not to say that Zimmerman may have not committed a serious crime. But it's interesting to see how they craft a narrative which suits the agenda they are pushing.

Also, Zimmerman is already in an orange jumpsuit. And honestly, Martin doesn't look that scary to me in the bottom pic either.


That act of heinous theft and manipulation upon thousands of investors far exceeds anything Zimmerman did

I'd say you're off the mark there. Both are important, but we don't really know what Zimmerman did. Seem to be a lot of people jumping the gun.

And a Rodney King video wouldn't even make the news these days. Police violence ain't just for the ghetto anymore.

[Sam I am]

Actually, from the facts presented thus far, it is absolutely a textbook case of self defense. In what crazy world is going outside to ask a suspicious lurker who he is and what he's doing constitute "instigating an altercation"? This is a free country. You, I, or George Zimmerman have every right to follow a stranger in public, and when we catch up to them and get their attention, ask them any question we so desire. And likewise, the person we are talking to has every right to tell us to "fuck off", and walk away. What they don't have the right to do is physically assault us. And that is what Trayvon Martin is accused of doing, and why according to the SYG law this was a justifiable homicide.

but he has NO right to shoot another human being especially if he knowingly put himself into a dangerous position

[hardrightedge]

If none of this matters, why did the media portray him as an angelic teen?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

The last line of the article:



No it is not, based on the facts so far presented.

Self defense with deadly force is not justified, legally, if you provoke or prolong or instigate an altercation that otherwise would not have happened had you not done so.

"Stand your ground" laws do not change that.


Agreed.

[Sam I am]

If none of this matters, why did the media portray him as an angelic teen?

lol, you think that the media cares about what matters or not

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Zimmerman was also 5’9 and out of shape. I’m pretty sure many tubby thirty-year-olds wouldn’t do well against a fit, 6’3, 17-year-old.

Yeah... Zimmerman having 100 pounds on this kid just puts him at a disadvantage. I'll take a fit 17 year old kid over an overweight Zimmerman anytime.

The big point here is that Zimmerman escalated the situation until he had to kill someone (which should draw charges) or he just killed someone for no good reason. (which should draw charges.)

[cajuncocoa]

No matter what circumstantial evidence people provide (the shooter was white, the victim was black; the victim was suspended from school, etc.) about this shooting, we probably don't have all of the relevant facts!! That being the case, isn't it a good idea to withhold judgement on both the shooter and the victim?

[kylejack]

Oh no, NOT MARIJUANA!

[Lishy]

Dunno who to believe, but it doesn't seem like we know the entire story.

But I hate when the media always blames racism for any conflict involving a black man and white man.

[kylejack]

Yeah... Zimmerman having 100 pounds on this kid just puts him at a disadvantage. I'll take a fit 17 year old kid over an overweight Zimmerman anytime.

The big point here is that Zimmerman escalated the situation until he had to kill someone (which should draw charges) or he just killed someone for no good reason. (which should draw charges.)
6'3 140 lbs is pretty darned scrawny.

[phill4paul]

Anyone else notice the way the media has dressed up the entire narrative?

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon_martingeorge_zimmerman2012-wide1.jpg

See that isn't a current picture of Trayvon but rather this is:

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Ax26X.jpg

But obviously that photo doesn't generate the same sympathy as the one at the top. The media is rotten to the core and that's not to say that Zimmerman may have not committed a serious crime. But it's interesting to see how they craft a narrative which suits the agenda they are pushing.

Not much difference in either pictures to me. Still looks like a kid. Well to be p.c... a young adult.

[specsaregood]

This zimmerman dude shoulda never called the cops if he wanted to go around killing people. that's the lesson to take away here.

[James Madison]

This zimmerman dude shoulda never called the cops if he wanted to go around killing people. that's the lesson to take away here.

That's true. Cops hate us mundanes doing their job for them--killing people, I mean.

[phill4paul]

That's true. Cops hate us mundanes doing their job for them--killing people, I mean.


Depends where you stand with them...

Cops.
Family of cops.
Friends of cops.



Everyone else.

[Anti Federalist]

The media is now throwing this phrase around, which I do not ever recall reading before.


a white Hispanic

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-friendbre82o0fc-20120325,0,148228.story

Ya know, I started this thread half tongue in cheek.

But, keeping mind that most of the MSM is government owned, I'm beginning to think that this might very well be true, that the whole thing has been blown out of the water to get the Afghan killings off the front page.

[phill4paul]

The media is now throwing this phrase around, which I do not ever recall reading before.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-friendbre82o0fc-20120325,0,148228.story

Ya know, I started this thread half tongue in cheek.

But, keeping mind that most of the MSM is government owned, I'm beginning to think that this might very well be true, that the whole thing has been blown out of the water to get the Afghan killings off the front page.

If RPFs, social media sites, media are any indication then job well done.

[puppetmaster]

I beleive that this will get obama re-elected a sympathy vote

[DisabledVet]

http://i.imgur.com/VF835.jpg

[MelissaWV]

Oh good another thread on this.

1. You are taking it as a given that Trayvon initiated physical contact (no, the "witness" does not describe this, but only that there was a time where Martin was atop Zimmerman and winning the fight... not that Trayvon necessarily started it).

2. You are leaving out the part that, while Zimmerman had a bloody nose, Trayvon had a bullet hole. That's kind of important when you're comparing injuries.

3. It is interesting to read that last line. No one would help him, but yet the very witness so many cite as showing that Martin initiated hostilities... says that he did hear calls for help, did tell the two of them to stop, that he was calling 9-1-1. Zimmerman seems to say that no one was helping him.

4. A ten-day suspension from school that was characterized as being utterly unrelated to violent acts.

It is odd that this "comparison" leaves out the other calls Zimmerman has made in the past (though I'd also like to know how many led to arrests, etc.). It also leaves out anything about his past in general. It seeks to swap the photos, though what I see isn't some thug... I see a really way too skinny guy showing off his teeth and flexing for some gals on FB. I also see a really REALLY old photo of Zimmerman, which I guess is supposed to get me to vote for him for Prom King.

Why old photos of either person is supposed to detract from the known facts, or keep the investigation from seeking for additional information, is beyond me.

[phill4paul]

Oh good another thread on this.

No shit. And one covered in F.U.D. as well.

[BlackTerrel]

I beleive that this will get obama re-elected a sympathy vote

Really? Do you know a single person who was going to vote for someone else and will now vote Obama because of this?

[DisabledVet]

Oh good another thread on this.

I'll refute your foolishness below each bout of "noise" you spew.

1. You are taking it as a given that Trayvon initiated physical contact (no, the "witness" does not describe this, but only that there was a time where Martin was atop Zimmerman and winning the fight... not that Trayvon necessarily started it).

No, I'm not taking anything as a given, but that the EVIDENCE shows Zimmerman to have born the brunt of a physical assault. And there are several more witnesses your conveniently leaving out of the picture, but notice how only the Officers statement is present in the above post.

2. You are leaving out the part that, while Zimmerman had a bloody nose, Trayvon had a bullet hole. That's kind of important when you're comparing injuries.

Hmm I wonder which one preceded the other? Victim has bloody nose from an assault, uses gun in self defense. But lets say it your way, Trayvon gets shot an killed, rises from the dead and punches Zimmerman in the nose. OMG!!! ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE !!!

3. It is interesting to read that last line. No one would help him, but yet the very witness so many cite as showing that Martin initiated hostilities... says that he did hear calls for help, did tell the two of them to stop, that he was calling 9-1-1. Zimmerman seems to say that no one was helping him.

When your being assaulted, its obvious you want someone to step in and HELP... not stand there and say "Hey you two knock it off" and then call 911.
Your definition is subjective and will work to Zimmerman's defense in court as to his PERCEPTION OF A LIFE THREATENING ATTACK.

4. A ten-day suspension from school that was characterized as being utterly unrelated to violent acts.

WRONG, it speaks to his character which IS USED IN COURTS ALL ACROSS THE LAND.

It is odd that this "comparison" leaves out the other calls Zimmerman has made in the past (though I'd also like to know how many led to arrests, etc.). It also leaves out anything about his past in general. It seeks to swap the photos, though what I see isn't some thug... I see a really way too skinny guy showing off his teeth and flexing for some gals on FB. I also see a really REALLY old photo of Zimmerman, which I guess is supposed to get me to vote for him for Prom King.

The calls that Zimmerman made in the past as his position as a neighborhood watch captain that lead to no deaths will be of no use to any of Treyvon's lawyers.


Why old photos of either person is supposed to detract from the known facts, or keep the investigation from seeking for additional information, is beyond me.

OK, find me a photo of Zimmerman flipping off the camera.....go ahead...I'll wait...

[MelissaWV]

So flipping off the camera = likely to wander around until the Neighborhood Watch guy starts stalking you, leading him around in circles until he loses sight of you and gets out to scheck on a sign (all part of the plan!), then going back and charging him without any provocation at all (since Zimmerman is a choir boy).

Incidentally, it really hasn't been released what other injuries were present. You are the one making wild leaps here with zero proof, and adding name-calling to the mix.

One has to wonder what your motivation is.

[moo]

zimmerman has called the police on BABIES. he called the police on LITTLE KIDS NO MORE THAN 10 YEARS YOUNG FOR RIDING THEIR BIKES IN THE STREETS. can you imagine living in a neighborhood where a man was STALKING your children and calling the LAW ENFORCEMENT to come arrest your CHILDREN for riding their bikes?????????? excessive force is at an all time high. police are shooting to kill, tazing and brutally beating CHILDREN like they are dogs in the street and you have a racist man living in YOUR neighborhood who calls those type of men to arrest BABIES??? something isn't right with this situation. he called the police on BLACK BABIES and BLACK MEN! what does ron paul advocate against? THE MASS INCARCERATION IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND THE RACIST LAWS THAT PUT THEM THERE OR IN THE GRAVE.

[AuH20]

Not much difference in either pictures to me. Still looks like a kid. Well to be p.c... a young adult.

But the photo on the top would lead you believe that Martin was a pillar of society who walked old ladies across the street, while holding their groceries.

[moo]

and where is the dna evidence to prove that trayvon martin broke zimmerman's nose & busted his head open?

[azxd]

Oh good another thread on this.
Proof of the mentality that will defeat this nation from within.

[azxd]

zimmerman has called the police on BABIES. he called the police on LITTLE KIDS NO MORE THAN 10 YEARS YOUNG FOR RIDING THEIR BIKES IN THE STREETS. can you imagine living in a neighborhood where a man was STALKING your children and calling the LAW ENFORCEMENT to come arrest your CHILDREN for riding their bikes?????????? excessive force is at an all time high. police are shooting to kill, tazing and brutally beating CHILDREN like they are dogs in the street and you have a racist man living in YOUR neighborhood who calls those type of men to arrest BABIES??? something isn't right with this situation. he called the police on BLACK BABIES and BLACK MEN! what does ron paul advocate against? THE MASS INCARCERATION IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND THE RACIST LAWS THAT PUT THEM THERE OR IN THE GRAVE.Nope, but I can imagine a neighborhood where kids are dead in the street because the parents are in control of their children.

[phill4paul]

No, I'm not taking anything as a given, but that the EVIDENCE shows Zimmerman to have born the brunt of a physical assault. And there are several more witnesses your conveniently leaving out of the picture, but notice how only the Officers statement is present in the above post.

Which officer is Smith? The narcotics detective on scene instead of the homicide detective. Or the officer that lead a witness by telling/correcting her that it was Zimmerman that yelled for help and not Martin instead of simply taking a statement?

[Anti Federalist]

But the photo on the top would lead you believe that Martin was a pillar of society who walked old ladies across the street, while holding their groceries.

He could be the baddest "Thug Life" muthafucker out there.

That is not germane to what the law is in this case.

You cannot use self defense as a legal justification for the use of deadly force, if you continue, provoke, or encourage an altercation that would normally not have happened, even if that altercation turns life threatening after the fact.

The facts presented so far indicate that is just what happened here.

The analogy would be: you go into the baddest biker bar in town, start harassing the baddest dude in the place, instigating a fight and then, when he proceeds to start pounding your ass into the dirt, you shoot him.

Now, you may have saved your life and did what you could to do so, but you will have no legal protection or legal recourse in claiming "self defense".

[silverhandorder]

Really? Do you know a single person who was going to vote for someone else and will now vote Obama because of this?

It's called rallying your base. Yes more people will come out because his side will put in more effort.

edit: My personal opinion on this is that Zimmerman fucked up and should suffer the consequences. However it pains me that we have such a double standard. If it was a cop in his place same thing would have happened but no one would be talking about this. That is the problem, that these issues are not being driven because of justice. If they were we would have a lot more cops sitting in prison.

edit2: And the lynch mob for Zimmerman is despicable even if it proves he is culpable.

[AuH20]

He could be the baddest "Thug Life" muthafucker out there.

That is not germane to what the law is in this case.

You cannot use self defense as a legal justification for the use of deadly force, if you continue, provoke, or encourage an altercation that would normally not have happened, even if that altercation turns life threatening after the fact.

The facts presented so far indicate that is just what happened here.

The analogy would be: you go into the baddest biker bar in town, start harassing the baddest dude in the place, instigating a fight and then, when he proceeds to start pounding your ass into the dirt, you shoot him.

Now, you may have saved your life and did what you could to do so, but you will have no legal protection or legal recourse in claiming "self defense".

I'm not justifying any of Zimmerman's actions. In fact, I don't know what happened. I was simply pointing out how the media distorts things in order to craft a narrative.

[Anti Federalist]

It's called rallying your base. Yes more people will come out because his side will put in more effort.

Yup.

The black demographic is already sewed up anyway, IIRC it went 98% for O-bomb-ya last time around.

Energize that base and get them out, that's guaranteed votes.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm not justifying any of Zimmerman's actions. In fact, I don't know what happened. I was simply pointing out how the media distorts things in order to craft a narrative.

Of course they do.

And who owns the media?

To what end does the said narrative serve?

I'm trying to clarify to people what the law is, so that hopefully decades of work on CCW and gun rights do not go up in flames because some asshole Hispanic wannabe cop shot some black wannabe gangsta after getting into a fight that should never have happened.

Based on the facts presented, and my understanding of them, Zimmermann was not justified under the law, period.

[donnay]

Of course they do.

And who owns the media?

To what end does the said narrative serve?

As a major distraction! And hopefully cause a lot of racial divide, because as the story goes...divide and conquer!

[AuH20]

Of course they do.

And who owns the media?

To what end does the said narrative serve?

The TPTB that wants us to be holed up in our homes frightened at the thought of taking any action. The same TPTB that wants us to defer to the almighty police officer. The same TPTB that wants us to slink away in disgrace when confronted with political schemes disguised with racial overtones.

[Indy Vidual]

I like how this country randomly chooses an incident to get mad about, but doesn't care about the rest.

Or is it random???? Discuss.

Random?
We care about what the TV tells us to...
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050222/050322_schiavo_hmed9a.grid-6x2.jpg

[Indy Vidual]

The TPTB that wants us to be holed up in our homes frightened at the thought of taking any action....

Aren't we there already? :o

[AuH20]

Aren't we there already? :o

Not everybody yet. :) They know this.

[Anti Federalist]

The TPTB that wants us to be holed up in our homes frightened at the thought of taking any action. The same TPTB that wants us to defer to the almighty police officer. The same TPTB that wants us to slink away in disgrace when confronted with political schemes disguised with racial overtones.

To that end they are being very effective.

LOL - And I used to get scoffed at back in 2007 when I and others would talk of "media conspiracies" and "government owned propaganda networks".

Not just this story, but the way RP is treated to how stories are built up and used, I think it's pretty clear now to everybody that is paying a little attention.

[Indy Vidual]

Not everybody yet. :) They know this.

OK, thanks.
Perhaps I need to get out more often. :p

[NewRightLibertarian]

To that end they are being very effective.

LOL - And I used to get scoffed at back in 2007 when I and others would talk of "media conspiracies" and "government owned propaganda networks".

Not just this story, but the way RP is treated to how stories are built up and used, I think it's pretty clear now to everybody that is paying a little attention.

The conspiracy pretty much follows the Paul's around at this point. You'd have to have your head buried in the sand not to notice it

[AuH20]

To that end they are being very effective.

LOL - And I used to get scoffed at back in 2007 when I and others would talk of "media conspiracies" and "government owned propaganda networks".

Not just this story, but the way RP is treated to how stories are built up and used, I think it's pretty clear now to everybody that is paying a little attention.

If you are against the debt ceiling being raised, you hate poor black people. None of this stuff happens by accident. It's all calculated, playing on people's emotional vulnerabilities and inherent biases.

[moo]

it's distraction to some of you because you'll never have to deal with racism, racial profiling & discrimination on the same level as blacks do.

[kylejack]

The media is now throwing this phrase around, which I do not ever recall reading before.

a white Hispanic
There's nothing strange about it at all.

Someone who is Hispanic is either from a Spanish-speaking country, or have heritage from Spanish-speaking countries. Their race is independent of that. Hispanics can be black, white, Native American, or any other race.

[Anti Federalist]

There's nothing strange about it at all.

Someone who is Hispanic is either from a Spanish-speaking country, or have heritage from Spanish-speaking countries. Their race is independent of that. Hispanics can be black, white, Native American, or any other race.

Yes, I'm well aware of that fact.

I have never seen anybody in any major media outlet be described as a "white Hispanic" before.

[NewRightLibertarian]

There's nothing strange about it at all.

Someone who is Hispanic is either from a Spanish-speaking country, or have heritage from Spanish-speaking countries. Their race is independent of that. Hispanics can be black, white, Native American, or any other race.

My grandpa is a white Hispanic, as am I. People never seem to believe me when I tell them, and it pisses me off

[dillo]

Obama needs to start a race war so that he has some mild excuse for declaring martial law and taking peoples guns

[lester1/2jr]

ironic people complaining about the lynch mob coming for zimmerman.

[cajuncocoa]

My grandpa is a white Hispanic, as am I. People never seem to believe me when I tell them, and it pisses me offI think you're missing the point. If I understand Anti Federalist correctly, he's saying he's never seen such a description in the media before. And neither have I.

[rag-time4]

Ron Paul was asked about the Trayvon Martin case in a recent Q & A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RETyDEHjHY0

Just a brief response but he said he didnt know all the details of the case, and that he favors local law enforcement handling it vs federal involvement

[Bruno]

I wasn't really following the story much, just catching the headlines. But what I read in the report above differs completely from the media story, and that is the point - the story the media chooses to sell to us, as we all should be a little more sensitive to than many others.

The media is portraying him as what looks likes an innocent 14 year old, when he was possibly according to this story a trouble-making gang member with a "No Limit" attitude who may have just recently swung at a bus drive, and was confronted by some guy in a neighborhood he wasn't from. They were likely both in the wrong at some point during the confrontation, and Zimmerman probably shouldn't have followed him and maybe should have left it to the police since they were on they way (where ironically this kid's chances of getting beaten or shot would have been likely higher, unfortunately). I don't know if this Zimmerman's life was in danger when he felt he had to pull the trigger, or not. I don't yet know who started the confrontation, and who was doing what to whom when the trigger was pulled. But the 6'3" young man described in this article is a different picture than the one being portrayed by the media, and everyone has already jumped to their conclusions based upon it.

And no, his pot use, tattoos, and his investment in precious metals to cover his teeth have nothing to do with it.

[onlyrp]

somehow a person being suspended from school at 17, makes him ok to kill if he's wearing a hoodie and holds a bag of skittles?

[cajuncocoa]

Ron Paul was asked about the Trayvon Martin case in a recent Q & A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RETyDEHjHY0

Just a brief response but he said he didnt know all the details of the case, and that he favors local law enforcement handling it vs federal involvementDr. Paul is a very wise man.

[dawnbt]

There's nothing strange about it at all.

Someone who is Hispanic is either from a Spanish-speaking country, or have heritage from Spanish-speaking countries. Their race is independent of that. Hispanics can be black, white, Native American, or any other race.

I was shocked the first time the news said he was killed by a "white" guy. I looked at the picture and thought..."yeah, not looking really white, I'd say Hispanic.". At that point, I KNEW there was more to this story.

[onlyrp]

That's true. Cops hate us mundanes doing their job for them--killing people, I mean.

Which is why it's unlikely he did anything wrong in this case, wouldn't the police LOVE to lock this kid up and assert their authority on the neighborhood to prevent friendly fire or vigilante justice if he actually did something wrong and they let it slip?

[NewRightLibertarian]

I think you're missing the point. If I understand Anti Federalist correctly, he's saying he's never seen such a description in the media before. And neither have I.

Yeah, I haven't either. I wasn't disagreeing with Anti Fed

[onlyrp]

I was shocked the first time the news said he was killed by a "white" guy. I looked at the picture and thought..."yeah, not looking really white, I'd say Hispanic.". At that point, I KNEW there was more to this story.

well he's not black, that's all that matters for blacks.

[dillo]

ironic people complaining about the lynch mob coming for zimmerman.

ironic people supporting lynch mobs with shotty information and no trial

[dawnbt]

If you're gonna divide and conquer, rile the masses, and stir up racial tensions (they already tried class warfare and republicans hate women) they have to make the suspect "white".
Two babies under two were killed in drive-by shootings in over a week in Detroit recently. Why didn't THAT make national news? I just saw on ESPN today that a Texas A&M band student was beaten to death on a charter bus by fellow band members as part of a "hazing", no one has been charged with that boys death! Multiple people, on a bus, how is this not being blown up on the news?
The media outlets are prompted on what stories to promote and what angle to promote them. Period. THAT'S the problem here. This was a horrible situation no matter what happened and no matter what the outcome is, but to incite a race war, which has prompted the Black Panthers to offer a bounty for Zimmerman's "capture", and causing anger and tension in the country is exactly what they want. Even with "new" evidence coming out the outlets (Fox included) are broadcasting the witnesses claims in a very condescending (Ron Paulesque if I may) manner.
Anyone who can't see how the media isn't taking advantage of this tragic situation and manipulating doesn't WANT to see it.

[Ender]

Another site says:

He has sake gold grills on and is making fun of it on his FB, but its being passed like they are real.

[MikeStanart]

I'm so sick of hearing about this story.

My opionion is: People are spending WAY too much damned time on this; a jury will determine the outcome & justice will be served.

This story does not warrant this much of our attention.

[moo]

ironic people supporting lynch mobs with shotty information and no trial

if there was no mob this case wouldve been swept under the rug. the mob is here because we WANT this case to go to trial so we CAN get factual information. we don't know why trayvon was murdered and parents need to know what we must do to prevent this from happening to other children.

[dillo]

Maybe people will learn to get actual facts and details before they call for lynch mobs or make radical opinions. Some day

[onlyrp]

this is classic flat out ad hominem, what does a person's background have to do with what happened the moment before Zimmerman decided to shoot Trayvon?

[onlyrp]

I'm so sick of hearing about this story.

My opionion is: People are spending WAY too much damned time on this; a jury will determine the outcome & justice will be served.

This story does not warrant this much of our attention.

oh yes it does! because racism is always an issue in elections, and so are guns. you wanna keep your guns? then pay attention to what the populus are whining about.

[dillo]

if there was no mob this case wouldve been swept under the rug. the mob is here because we WANT this case to go to trial so we CAN get factual information. we don't know why trayvon was murdered and parents need to know what we must do to prevent this from happening to other children.

Oh so this 10,000 person mob will be satisfied for a not guilty verdict or a non trial if the prosecutor feels no law has been broken?

[silverhandorder]

if there was no mob this case wouldve been swept under the rug. the mob is here because we WANT this case to go to trial so we CAN get factual information. we don't know why trayvon was murdered and parents need to know what we must do to prevent this from happening to other children.

Why aren't you making a mob for the kids mentioned couple of posts above yours?

[moo]

Why aren't you making a mob for the kids mentioned couple of posts above yours?

why are you waiting for someone else to bring awareness to a crime you feel deserves media attention?

[RonPaulMall]

There's nothing strange about it at all.

Someone who is Hispanic is either from a Spanish-speaking country, or have heritage from Spanish-speaking countries. Their race is independent of that. Hispanics can be black, white, Native American, or any other race.

As a White Hispanic myself, I can assure you there ever since the Clinton administration, it has been the unofficial policy of the government and the MSM to pretend that there is not such thing as a white (or black, or asian for that matter) Hispanic. They have done everything in their power to promote the idea that Hispanic is a separate race. The return of the "White Hispanic" to the MSM's lexicon is painfully revealing as to what their agenda is in this case. And of course the most ridiculous aspect of this whole thing is that while White Hispanics certainly exist, Zimmerman is most obviously NOT one of them! The fact he looks so mestizo despite having a white American father indicates his mother must be very, very mestizo.

[silverhandorder]

why are you waiting for someone else to bring awareness to a crime you feel deserves media attention?

This is not about me, it is about you being fake. If you actually feel the way you do you should be spreading awareness about all these cases.

[RonPaulMall]

if there was no mob this case wouldve been swept under the rug. the mob is here because we WANT this case to go to trial so we CAN get factual information. we don't know why trayvon was murdered and parents need to know what we must do to prevent this from happening to other children.

Again, you have a completely mistaken understanding of the American Justice system. A trial is not a search for the truth. It is an adversarial proceeding in which the state is accusing someone of a crime! It is a testament to how far we have gone towards complete totalitarianism that so many people, on a freaking Ron Paul site!, think the state has a right to arrest someone absent probable cause of a crime. If you want factual information, what you should be calling for is an investigation, not a trial. A trial is what happens after the factual information has been assembled, and that factual information is sufficient that the prosecution believes a crime has occurred and that the accused is guilty of that crime.

[moo]

This is not about me, it is about you being fake. If you actually feel the way you do you should be spreading awareness about all these cases.

if that is the case why are you against THIS murder?

[silverhandorder]

if that is the case why are you against THIS murder?

I am not sure what you mean. But to clarify I don't think kids should be shot for walking down a street. I also don't trust police or our courts to actually provide justice for the shooter or for the family.

So since this is a clusterfuck I would rather attention be pointed at utter failure of public police. This way we can actually speak about real issue here and put our effort into a real solution. I am not holding out any hope that it will actually happen. I predict people will be divided on this and political whores will be able to take advantage of both sides.

As people pointed out divide and conquer.

[40oz]

Actually, from the facts presented thus far, it is absolutely a textbook case of self defense. In what crazy world is going outside to ask a suspicious lurker who he is and what he's doing constitute "instigating an altercation"? This is a free country. You, I, or George Zimmerman have every right to follow a stranger in public, and when we catch up to them and get their attention, ask them any question we so desire. And likewise, the person we are talking to has every right to tell us to "fuck off", and walk away. What they don't have the right to do is physically assault us. And that is what Trayvon Martin is accused of doing, and why according to the SYG law this was a justifiable homicide.

Are you sure that's what happened? We need to know if Zimmerman tried to detain Martin or if Martin rushed Zimmerman instead of telling him to "fuck off".

[moo]

i understand there is a double standard and it is unfair but in this particular case, a man killed an innocent child and wasn't arrested because of that "stand your ground" law. that law puts innocent children at risk for being murdered.

[silverhandorder]

i understand there is a double standard and it is unfair but in this particular case, a man killed an innocent child and wasn't arrested because of that "stand your ground" law. that law puts innocent children at risk for being murdered.

And cops shoot kids all the time in the exact same circumstances. Again why this so special?

[dawnbt]

I wasn't really following the story much, just catching the headlines. But what I read in the report above differs completely from the media story, and that is the point - the story the media chooses to sell to us, as we all should be a little more sensitive to than many others.

The media is portraying him as what looks likes an innocent 14 year old, when he was possibly according to this story a trouble-making gang member with a "No Limit" attitude who may have just recently swung at a bus drive, and was confronted by some guy in a neighborhood he wasn't from. They were likely both in the wrong at some point during the confrontation, and Zimmerman probably shouldn't have followed him and maybe should have left it to the police since they were on they way (where ironically this kid's chances of getting beaten or shot would have been likely higher, unfortunately). I don't know if this Zimmerman's life was in danger when he felt he had to pull the trigger, or not. I don't yet know who started the confrontation, and who was doing what to whom when the trigger was pulled. But the 6'3" young man described in this article is a different picture than the one being portrayed by the media, and everyone has already jumped to their conclusions based upon it.

And no, his pot use, tattoos, and his investment in precious metals to cover his teeth have nothing to do with it.

Exactly! +1 rep!

The point is the angle that the media is portraying this and convicting Zimmerman in the public eye. Looking and acting like a thug doesn't give right to kill a man, that's not the point here. The point is calling the media out on their bias crap. We all know the days of honest journalism is over, but believe it or not there are TONS of people who are still in the fog. This blatant manipulation of the truth needs to be exposed to those who unquestionably believe everything they see on the news. Unfortunately, this tragedy needs to be left to the authorities in a court of law. Unfortunately, for Zimmerman, regardless of what evidence comes out, he's already been convicted in the public eye.

[moo]

And cops shoot kids all the time in the exact same circumstances. Again why this so special?

im sorry but if you do not understand the severity of this case & why lives are at risk then you should really stop posting and move on to another thread.

[BamaAla]

And cops shoot kids all the time in the exact same circumstances. Again why this so special?

You're arguing with a troll. I'd step away.

[silverhandorder]

You're arguing with a troll. I'd step away.

I know he is a troll hence why I am not getting mad. Sometimes easiest thing to do is to show how silly the troll is.

[onlyrp]

And cops shoot kids all the time in the exact same circumstances. Again why this so special?


....how about because some people believe police shouldn't share their privileges with citizens?

[moo]

You're arguing with a troll. I'd step away.

how am I a troll when I am discussing the murder of trayvon martin?
:rolleyes:

[Anti Federalist]

i understand there is a double standard and it is unfair but in this particular case, a man killed an innocent child and wasn't arrested because of that "stand your ground" law. that law puts innocent children at risk for being murdered.

You are incorrect.

If there is one reason why Zimmermann wasn't arrested is that he was "friendly" with the cops.

The facts presented so far do NOT show Zimmermann to be justified in using lethal force, regardless of the "stand your ground" law.

[onlyrp]

You are incorrect.

If there is one reason why Zimmermann wasn't arrested is that he was "friendly" with the cops.

The facts presented so far do NOT show Zimmermann to be justified in using lethal force, regardless of the "stand your ground" law.

are you basically saying, it's not the law, it's the police and enforcement that matters?

[moo]

how am I a troll when I frequent the chatrooms and I've never seen your screennames in there. Don't patronize me. I came in here to support the trayvon martin case, a case some of you have deemed unworthy of attention because issues that you care about the most go unnoticed by the people. I understand.

[Indy Vidual]

how am I a troll...

If you are not, then don't worry about it; If you are, then why are you worried about it?

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I like how this country randomly chooses an incident to get mad about, but doesn't care about the rest.

Or is it random???? Discuss.

Public Relations bro.

[Ender]

You are incorrect.

If there is one reason why Zimmermann wasn't arrested is that he was "friendly" with the cops.

The facts presented so far do NOT show Zimmermann to be justified in using lethal force, regardless of the "stand your ground" law.

In complete agreement.

Zimmerman followed the kid after being told not to- if anything, Martin was the one who had the right to "stand your ground".

[onlyrp]

If you are not, then don't worry about it; If you are, then why are you worried about it?

maybe he's just a newbie. but just on the other side of the coin, both trolls and non-trolls prefer to keep posting, so don't like to be spotted as trolls.

[moo]

are you basically saying, it's not the law, it's the police and enforcement that matters?

exactly!

[Anti Federalist]

are you basically saying, it's not the law, it's the police and enforcement that matters?

I thought I was being pretty clear about what I was saying.

Under FL law, based on the facts as presented so far, Zimmermann emerges with no legal justification to use deadly force.

If the cops fell down on the job and let this guy skate because he was an FoC, then that was clearly an injustice.

If there are extenuating circumstances that significantly change the whole outlook of the story, then the cops better get those out there right away, before this poor fucker gets lynched.

[cajuncocoa]

Exactly! +1 rep!

The point is the angle that the media is portraying this and convicting Zimmerman in the public eye. Looking and acting like a thug doesn't give right to kill a man, that's not the point here. The point is calling the media out on their bias crap. We all know the days of honest journalism is over, but believe it or not there are TONS of people who are still in the fog. This blatant manipulation of the truth needs to be exposed to those who unquestionably believe everything they see on the news. Unfortunately, this tragedy needs to be left to the authorities in a court of law. Unfortunately, for Zimmerman, regardless of what evidence comes out, he's already been convicted in the public eye.Unfortunately, the system will not allow me to +1 you again at this time for this excellent point. :(

[moo]

and trayvon did call 911 but they haven't released the tape yet.

[James Madison]

I'm so sick of hearing about this story.

My opionion is: People are spending WAY too much damned time on this; a jury will determine the outcome & justice will be served.

This story does not warrant this much of our attention.

Don't expect this story to go away. Every self-righteous social-activist wannabe is drooling over this right now. Same people that got suckered into the Kony 2012 bullshit. Meanwhile, thousands die every month in the Middle East because of our foreign policy and not a peep from these so-called 'activists'. Millions dead in Africa because of western-backed puppet dictators and not a peep. But one kid gets murdered, and it's as if the guy just killed Christ. And don't worry, they'll gladly send you off to go die in Iran when their dear leader starts WW3.

[Zatch]

somehow a person being suspended from school at 17, makes him ok to kill if he's wearing a hoodie and holds a bag of skittles?

Trayvon had Skittles! SKITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTLES!!! Case closed. No one who likes Skittles could be a bad person. Period. Execute Zimmerman NOW! /sarcasm

[BlackTerrel]

It's called rallying your base. Yes more people will come out because his side will put in more effort.

No they won't. In six months this won't be impacting the polls.


Yup.

The black demographic is already sewed up anyway, IIRC it went 98% for O-bomb-ya last time around.

Energize that base and get them out, that's guaranteed votes.

Yes. No one is changing their vote based on this.


As a major distraction! And hopefully cause a lot of racial divide, because as the story goes...divide and conquer!

Outside of this forum and out in the real world there is NO racial divide. My friends are incredibly diverse - black, Asian, Hispanic, white, Asian - no one is divided over this we all agree it is a travesty of justice. And not a single person I know is taking their anger out on a racial group - our anger is clearly directed at Zimmerman AND law enforcement.

The only shit I am hearing of racial divide and even the absurdity of "race war" is coming from this forum.

The vast majority of Americans just want justice - that is all.

[onlyrp]

Trayvon had Skittles! SKITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTLES!!! Case closed. No one who likes Skittles could be a bad person. Period. Execute Zimmerman NOW! /sarcasm

anybody who likes skittles CAN be a bad person, but WAS he, and more importantly, was he doing anything wrong at the time? I'm not crying for his kid, but I don't think it's fair to bring up what he did in the past as some indicator that he was a criminal at the moment (and he might've deserved to be shot, just not because of being suspended from school, or because he had skittles).

[BlackTerrel]

Obama needs to start a race war so that he has some mild excuse for declaring martial law and taking peoples guns

"Race war" is just about as likely as "WW3" or "Y2K".

For a people that rightfully complain about media and government there is a lot of propagating of fear around here.

Calm down. There is not going to be a race war. Nobody I know wants to hurt you. Stop living in fear.

[BlackTerrel]

somehow a person being suspended from school at 17, makes him ok to kill if he's wearing a hoodie and holds a bag of skittles?

That's what it sounds like.

[Indy Vidual]

The only shit I am hearing of racial divide...
...is coming from this forum.


Really?

"How do we turn pain into power?" Jackson asked a standing-room only congregation while preaching at Macedonia Missionary Baptist Church in Eatonville, Fla...
..."The blood of the innocent has power," Jackson said, naming other slain black Americans whose deaths became rallying cries in the struggle for equality. "There's power in the blood of Emmett Till. There's power in the blood of Medgar Evers. There's power in the blood of Dr. King."
Martin case rings across country's pulpits (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-25/trayvon-martin-church-leaders-hoodies/53777144/1)

[kylejack]

Really?

"How do we turn pain into power?" Jackson asked a standing-room only congregation while preaching at Macedonia Missionary Baptist Church in Eatonville, Fla...
..."The blood of the innocent has power," Jackson said, naming other slain black Americans whose deaths became rallying cries in the struggle for equality. "There's power in the blood of Emmett Till. There's power in the blood of Medgar Evers. There's power in the blood of Dr. King."
Martin case rings across country's pulpits (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-25/trayvon-martin-church-leaders-hoodies/53777144/1)
Doesn't sound like racial divide to me. Sounds to me like a call to power, to end racial injustice (which is still very present).

[Indy Vidual]

...
This story does not warrant this much of our attention.

That never happens in America:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YtI_vV02-H4/Sd_5oCMx4rI/AAAAAAAAAK8/jUeymUZyEAY/s320/Terri+Schiavo+smiles.jpg

[Danke]

Isn't a gated community private property?

[NewRightLibertarian]

Doesn't sound like racial divide to me. Sounds to me like a call to power, to end racial injustice (which is still very present).

He'd be out of a job if racial injustice were eliminated. Vermin like Jackson thrives on it

[AGRP]

Cool:

All of the smart Paul people who can see through this BS will be busy getting delegates while most of the Romney, Santorum, and Newt sheeple will be distracted at this non-issue on places like Facebook, Redstate, and theblazed.

[BlackTerrel]

Really?

"How do we turn pain into power?" Jackson asked a standing-room only congregation while preaching at Macedonia Missionary Baptist Church in Eatonville, Fla...
..."The blood of the innocent has power," Jackson said, naming other slain black Americans whose deaths became rallying cries in the struggle for equality. "There's power in the blood of Emmett Till. There's power in the blood of Medgar Evers. There's power in the blood of Dr. King."
Martin case rings across country's pulpits (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-25/trayvon-martin-church-leaders-hoodies/53777144/1)

That's not division and it's certainly not "race war". It's talking about justice. Big difference.

Calm the fucking race war talk down. Do you know what even that hypothetically would look like? Millions of Americans taking up arms and shooting at millions of other Americans because of the color of their skin?

It would basically be Armageddon. But it won't fucking happen... 99% of us get along. So calm the fuck down and quell the "race war" bullshit.

People want to talk about justice and bringing a murderer to trial. No one wants millions of Americans shooting each other. That will NEVER happen so stop promoting this fear and violence.

[NewRightLibertarian]

That's not division and it's certainly not "race war". It's talking about justice. Big difference.

Calm the fucking race war talk down. Do you know what even that hypothetically would look like? Millions of Americans taking up arms and shooting at millions of other Americans because of the color of their skin?

It would basically be Armageddon. But it won't fucking happen... 99% of us get along. So calm the fuck down and quell the "race war" bullshit.

People want to talk about justice and bringing a murderer to trial. No one wants millions of Americans shooting each other. That will NEVER happen so stop promoting this fear and violence.

You got your head in the sand. Race war concerns are real. There isn't anyone here promoting it, they're just admitting the unfortunate reality

[moo]

I agree. Just because you read articles about the black panthers doesn't mean this is a white vs black situation. The black panthers are there because zimmerman is a racist and the police dept tried to cover it up. The only people who fear the black panthers are the klansman. they're trying to portray the panthers as the boogieman but white people aren't falling for that old trick. There are many different organizations that are involved in this case. People of all walks of life all across the world have united together for trayvon martin. Look at the pictures & videos on social networks to see for yourself. EVERYONE has united so don't let an extremely SMALL group of people, who are being paid to divide this movement, make you miss this great opportunity to be apart of a modern day civil rights movement. the occupy movement, the gay rights movement, the tea party movement, the reason movement, the civil rights movement and so many more are historical events that is happening right now.

this shows what the people can do if we simply UNITE and stand together for what is RIGHT. we can change laws & change minds.

[fr33]

*jumps into a multi-page topic without reading it*

What I hate is how "we" all feel the need to choose a side on these type of stories if we feel it will be used against our political stances. None of us truly know what happened. We weren't there. Stories like this happen often but are selectively covered by the media.

It gets to the point where there's some type of pressure for me to support this Zimmerman dude if I support self defense. But wait I'm against racism and busy-body pricks so I must oppose, right?

Then some douche-bag like Geraldo Rivera feels the need to inform me that every day this winter I was asking to be shot because I wear a hoodie.

Sorry but I feel Geraldo comes out of this story being the biggest idiot. A sweatshirt/jacket with a hood on it is not suspicious and those that promote such an ideal deserve nothing but criticism.

[onlyrp]

Isn't a gated community private property?

yes, generally. Though they have street addresses, usually they can only gate it up because they owned the land to start, and the streets inside are "artificial".

[onlyrp]

*jumps into a multi-page topic without reading it*

What I hate is how "we" all feel the need to choose a side on these type of stories if we feel it will be used against our political stances. None of us truly know what happened. We weren't there. Stories like this happen often but are selectively covered by the media.

yeah, seriously.

[kylejack]

Isn't a gated community private property?
Yes. Both had a right to be there (Zimmerman owns or rents a house, and Trayvon was staying with his father.)

[moo]

here is the worlds most notorious criminal. being kissed on the cheek by his father must be some kind gang ritual.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1euucub7p1qh021co1_500.jpg

[onlyrp]

here is the worlds most notorious criminal. being kissed on the cheek by his father must be some kind gang ritual.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1euucub7p1qh021co1_500.jpg

You know, there's more options than just "worlds most notorious criminal" and "perfectly innocent and never deserved to be shot", you knew that, right?

[Anti Federalist]

Actually, from the facts presented thus far, it is absolutely a textbook case of self defense. In what crazy world is going outside to ask a suspicious lurker who he is and what he's doing constitute "instigating an altercation"? This is a free country. You, I, or George Zimmerman have every right to follow a stranger in public, and when we catch up to them and get their attention, ask them any question we so desire. And likewise, the person we are talking to has every right to tell us to "fuck off", and walk away. What they don't have the right to do is physically assault us. And that is what Trayvon Martin is accused of doing, and why according to the SYG law this was a justifiable homicide.

You are wrong and you are giving out information that could potentially land people in prison for a long period of time if followed:


Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.


Q. What if I see a crime being committed?

A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime.

Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Florida law also provides that the use of deadly force is not justified if the defendant is charged with an independent forcible felony, and the defendant was attempting to commit a felony or the defendant initially provoked the use of force against himself.

http://www.criminaldefenseattorneytampa.com/FloridaDefenses/DeadlyForceSelfDefense.aspx




From the facts presented thus far:

A - Zimmerman played free lance cop by following Martin AFTER being told to stand down.

B - Martin was unarmed and was committing no violent felony during the time Zimmerman had him "under surveillance".

C - A fistfight with a minor does not rise to the level of threat that would justify the use of deadly force.

He was unjustified, under current Stand Your Ground Florida law, in responding with deadly force, based on the facts as they appear now.

[Anti Federalist]

The law on this:



Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.


Q. What if I see a crime being committed?

A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime.

Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Florida law also provides that the use of deadly force is not justified if the defendant is charged with an independent forcible felony, and the defendant was attempting to commit a felony or the defendant initially provoked the use of force against himself.

http://www.criminaldefenseattorneytampa.com/FloridaDefenses/DeadlyForceSelfDefense.aspx




From the facts presented thus far:

A - Zimmerman played free lance cop by following Martin AFTER being told to stand down.

B - Martin was unarmed and was committing no violent felony during the time Zimmerman had him "under surveillance".

C - A fistfight with a minor does not rise to the level of threat that would justify the use of deadly force.

He was unjustified, under current Stand Your Ground Florida law, in responding with deadly force, based on the facts as they appear now.

[asurfaholic]

how am I a troll when I am discussing the murder of trayvon martin?
:rolleyes:

Why is traayvon martin so special????

Don't you realize that the media has worked its magic on you? Media sensationalism has definitely done its trick across the country. Would people have been less outraged if the headlines were "newcomer drug dealer attacks a local neighborhood watch captain, dies."

Instead the media has turned this into a bloody racial issue, knowing damn well that idiots eat that up..

Trayvon martin... im sick of this story already

[Working Poor]

I honestly don't know who was right or wrong here. What I do know, is that this story is very divisive, and after the two groups get done tearing each other apart, nothing good will have come of it. Then we just wait for the next divisive story and repeat this cycle, ad infinitum.

Pass. I want no part in this.


I believe the media is pushing this to create more racial tension.

[MelissaWV]

Why is traayvon martin so special????

Don't you realize that the media has worked its magic on you? Media sensationalism has definitely done its trick across the country. Would people have been less outraged if the headlines were "newcomer drug dealer attacks a local neighborhood watch captain, dies."

Instead the media has turned this into a bloody racial issue, knowing damn well that idiots eat that up..

Trayvon martin... im sick of this story already

Not sick enough of it to label Martin a "newcomer drug dealer" and once again perpetuate the meme (made up by people who weren't there) that he attacked first.

Interesting gymnastics you go through in a single post.

[nobody's_hero]

Not sick enough of it to label Martin a "newcomer drug dealer" and once again perpetuate the meme (made up by people who weren't there) that he attacked first.

Interesting gymnastics you go through in a single post.

I think you missed what he was trying to say (he was speaking hypothetically). His point was that the media has a powerful role in determining how important a story is. The media *COULD* have said that he was a 'newcomer drug dealer' and everyone would have just rolled over in bed and slept in. Instead this story is getting massively pumped up.

My question is the same as a few others: Why this one? The Ohio school shootings were good for national ratings for only a few days. We've had a few courthouse shootings in various states since around that time. These stories are thrown out and if they don't stick, they're dropped.

My theory is that if there's a story with any degree of potential 'racism value', they media will lay it on hard-and-thick. This one is gonna stick for a while longer. Can't let the American people start viewing these crimes as 'normal' crimes. No, this one is special. They had different skin color. We aren't quite to the point where the media lets us view each other as individuals.

I think I'll agree with asurfaholic. I'm sick of this story too, due to the way it's being handled. Try Zimmerman for murder (of which he'll likely be found guilty) and lets move on with things. No need to mention skin tone for the extra boost in ratings it gets.

[Bruno]

That's what it sounds like.

Then you missed the point, or are pretending that you did. Rereading will solve the former, the latter would be up to you.

[asurfaholic]

Not sick enough of it to label Martin a "newcomer drug dealer" and once again perpetuate the meme (made up by people who weren't there) that he attacked first.

Interesting gymnastics you go through in a single post.

I was just using that as an example of how a simple change in headline could change the entire focus of the story. I knew I shoulda stayed out of this thread.... and the other 6 trayvon martian threads...

I do not know what went down. I DO know that the media is blowing this up. The other day in my town a group of 4 black dudes broke into a white mans house and shot him dead, then robbed the place. What, didn't hear about it? Neither did I until I talked to someone who was there...

[Toureg89]

I guess I'm the only one who really doesn't give a shit about this case.
i give a shit to the extent that people crying racist also seem to want to get rid of our Stand-Your-Ground law to try to nanny-police future incidents of racist whites shooting blacks.

whether or not Zimmerman is guilty or Trayvon instigated it, i dont care to the because i feel its something to be worked out between Zimmerman and the boys parents through the courts.

[lester1/2jr]

Trayvon Martin was visiting family in the neighborhood. No one disputes that. Zimmerman had no reason to be following him at all.

[lester1/2jr]

dillo-
ironic people supporting lynch mobs with shotty information and no trial

so you admit Zimmerman essentially lynched Martin with shitty information and no trial.

[moderate libertarian]

Is this a new angle or already known tidbit:



Who is George Zimmerman - the frustrated cop wannabe in the eye of a race storm?
Sydney Morning Herald - ‎15 hours ago‎

http://m.smh.com.au/world/who-is-george-zimmerman-20120325-1vs1a.html

[Cowlesy]

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer


Geez, the media really seems to be playing a weird game with this story.

[specsaregood]

Geez, the media really seems to be playing a weird game with this story.

Judging based on the deluge of threads here on the "story", they are getting just what they wanted: attention and eyeballs.

[Cowlesy]

I believe the media is pushing this to create more racial tension.

I think you are right, and I find it to be disgusting.

What are they going to do when one of the black panther clowns loses it to get "revenge"? Instead of outrage, the media will shrug and say "well this is the price we gotta pay."

[Cowlesy]

Judging based on the deluge of threads here on the "story", they are getting just what they wanted: attention and eyeballs.

The whole thing vexes me, as there are tragedies every damn day where there is injustice (or perceived injustice), and now all of a sudden we've been in national mourning for over a week with about 60% of the facts.

[pcosmar]

I do not know what went down. I DO know that the media is blowing this up.

I am pretty sure that an armed man shot and killed an unarmed man.
I am pretty sure that the unarmed man had every right to be there and no reason to be accosted by the armed man.

And yes, the media is blowing it up,
Some people are rightfully pissed that the armed man is being protected by police.

[specsaregood]

//

[moderate libertarian]

That was posted in the main thread on the subject.

I've got an even better conspiracy.

The Martin shooting has been bubbling in the background for a month now.

But it just blew up now.

Sure took that story of the Afghan village slaughter off the front page, didn't it now?

Could Obama electioneering gurus like David Axlerod or one of those told Obama and media owners to talk it up?

+rep for an astute observation.

[azxd]

The point is that Trayvon isn't quite as affable as he's been portrayed, which matters somewhat because it does paint a picture of someone, who might be quick to get into a fistfight.

The points raised in the article, however are extremely weak, and even if Trayvon did throw the first punch, that's not good enough for a self defense case.Tell that to the people who have been killed by 1 punch ... It happens.

[Cowlesy]

How long was the story about that white girl that disappeared in Aruba on the air?

I didn't know there was a racial component to the crime on that one, but I do recall hearing about it.

[azxd]

You are wrong and you are giving out information that could potentially land people in prison for a long period of time if followed:


Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;


Very judgemental and absolutely wrong of you to suggest that a fist fight cannot end in death, and that a fist fight will not bring with it serious harm or death.

[The_Ruffneck]

someone explain why the trayvon story is getting so much more media attention than the two white tourists that got killed in Florida because they walked into the wrong neighbouhood a while back? The black kid who killed those two white guys was jailed recently , hardly any coverage.

[cajuncocoa]

The media is manipulating the public about this story...from the use of the pic of Trayvon as an angelic 12-year old to the pic of Zimmerman as a thug, wearing what looks like an orange prison jumpsuit.

It doesn't matter/shouldn't matter whether the young man was a Boy Scout or a tattoo-covered drug dealer. Nor should it matter whether he was suspended from school or whether said suspension was due to some previous incidence of violence that involved Trayvon. All of that is circumstantial evidence, and certainly does NOT give anyone the right to hunt him down and stalk him/shoot him.

But since it doesn't matter, why did the media manipulate the story in the first place? Y'all know the answer: so there would be a rush to judgement about Zimmerman. Maybe all we know is not all there is to know. Since when do we trust the MSM to give us all of the facts about a story, particularly when they have an agenda?

[angelatc]

The last line of the article:



No it is not, based on the facts so far presented.

Self defense with deadly force is not justified, legally, if you provoke or prolong or instigate an altercation that otherwise would not have happened had you not done so.

"Stand your ground" laws do not change that.

And neither does the affiliations of your victim. This "crucify the victim" tendency is horrible. I don't get why so many people are so desperate to believe Zimmerman is innocent.

[azxd]

And neither does the affiliations of your victim. This "crucify the victim" tendency is horrible. I don't get why so many people are so desperate to believe Zimmerman is innocent.I'm gonna guess the numbers are about equal to those who think the kid was innocent.

[specsaregood]

I didn't know there was a racial component to the crime on that one, but I do recall hearing about it.

Yeah, I wasn't discussing the possible racial components; just saying the media with a story is like a dog with a new squeak toy. When they get a good squeaky one they are gonna play with it nonstop until the squeaker breaks, then onto the next one. it is what it is. This story is just the squeak toy of the week. They'll keep on squeaking it until the audience gets bored with it. Just watching the attention its getting here on rpfs indicates to me that the public is still enthralled with it.

[AuH20]

Right on cue. Government media complex going for the throat on this.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/22/MSNBC%20Host%20Blames%20Limbaugh%20Gingrich%20Sant orum%20Rhetoric%20For%20Trevon%20Martin%20Death

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/23/MSNBCs-Finney-Links-To-Trayvon-Shooting-To-Kochs-NRA

Now folks understand why many of us are so angry about how this has been presented? Apparently, the conservative, more libertarian segment of society is now responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin as opposed to one man. LOL Go figure. And no one here is defending Zimmerman if he did use excessive force. But this is how the establishment plays.

[pcosmar]

I'm gonna guess the numbers are about equal to those who think the kid was innocent.

It does not matter if the kid was innocent.
He had a RIGHT to BE there.

Zimmerman had NO right to assault him.

If Zimmerman had not gotten OUT of his Vehicle and Confronted (assaulted) Travon there would have been no fight.

How is that so hard to understand.

[specsaregood]

here is the worlds most notorious criminal. being kissed on the cheek by his father must be some kind gang ritual.


And here is a picture of Jeffrey Dahmer loving his dog.
http://www.tornadohills.com/dahmer/renamed2/frisky.jpg

[AuH20]

It does not matter if the kid was innocent.
He had a RIGHT to BE there.

Zimmerman had NO right to assault him.

If Zimmerman had not gotten OUT of his Vehicle and Confronted (assaulted) Travon there would have been no fight.

How is that so hard to understand.

With that said, we have no idea who escalated it after first contact was made. It takes two to tango.

[MelissaWV]

someone explain why the trayvon story is getting so much more media attention than the two white tourists that got killed in Florida because they walked into the wrong neighbouhood a while back? The black kid who killed those two white guys was jailed recently , hardly any coverage.

I posted a different story in one of these threads, which seems ready-made for the media to feign outrage, but didn't get the same flurry of interest.


A Baltimore prosecutor offered jurors in a murder trial a painful and troubling portrait Wednesday of the victim's final moments, describing how a killer "suffocated and butchered" the boy, whose screams for help she said went unheard by a relative who had passed out from heroin...

"He went from place to place to keep a roof over his head," Hastings said in court. He felt welcome at the house owned by his great-aunt on Llewellyn Avenue, but the prosecutor said there was little adult supervision, many occupants spent the days shooting heroin, drinking and playing cards, and keeping the front door open to random visitors.



Maybe we just didn't need a "heartbreaking" story that week.

[ctiger2]

Clearly this is relevant as to why he was unarmed and shot dead in cold blood.

What about the police reports where it states Zimmerman had blood running from his nose and the back of his head? Still no reason to kill someone IMHO. But at least we understand motive now.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1476947/akcs-www.png

[pcosmar]

With that said, we have no idea who escalated it after first contact was made. It takes two to tango.

It does not matter. Zimmerman had no business confronting the kid in the first place.

If the kid had shot him outright he would have been 100% justified.
Zimmerman was the attacker. ( he stalked him, exited his vehicle and confronted him) And he was armed.

First contact? There should have been NO contact.
Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle and Minded his own business.

[coastie]

It does not matter if the kid was innocent.
He had a RIGHT to BE there.

Zimmerman had NO right to assault him.

If Zimmerman had not gotten OUT of his Vehicle and Confronted (assaulted) Travon there would have been no fight.

How is that so hard to understand.

Seems only a few of us here are capable of thinking without our emotions, Pete, even some here I thought were better than that.

[AuH20]

It does not matter. Zimmerman had no business confronting the kid in the first place.

If the kid had shot him outright he would have been 100% justified.
Zimmerman was the attacker. ( he stalked him, exited his vehicle and confronted him) And he was armed.

First contact? There should have been NO contact.
Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle and Minded his own business.

This is where I disagree. Cops roughly prevent 20% of the crimes committed and minding your own business could prove dire in the long term. And given what we know about Zimmerman's neighborhood, it was ravaged by home burglaries and the like. The neighborhood watch was formed of necessity not of bragaddoccio. With that said, Zimmerman reacted poorly when the conflict escalated. Zimmerman's personal judgement should be questioned as opposed to the everlasting principle of defending one's neighborhood.

[Danke]

It does not matter. Zimmerman had no business confronting the kid in the first place.

If the kid had shot him outright he would have been 100% justified.
Zimmerman was the attacker. ( he stalked him, exited his vehicle and confronted him) And he was armed.

First contact? There should have been NO contact.
Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle and Minded his own business.

Well, if it is private property and the owners agreed on Zimmerman patrolling said properties, I don't see why not.

[coastie]

This is where I disagree. Cops roughly prevent 20% of the crimes committed and minding your own business could prove dire in the long term. And given what we know about Zimmerman's neighborhood, it was ravaged by home burglaries and the like. The neighborhood watch was formed of necessity not of bragaddaccio. With that said, Zimmerman reacted poorly when the conflict escalated. Zimmerman's personal judgement should be questioned as opposed to the everlasting principle of defending one's neighborhood.

Which is exactly what Pete was getting at. Holy shit you guys are giving me a headache with this....

[AuH20]

Which is exactly what Pete was getting at. Holy shit you guys are giving me a headache with this....

Which was pulling the trigger. Not accosting Martin. Martin was a stranger in his neighborhood.

[pcosmar]

. The neighborhood watch was formed of necessity not of bragaddaccio.

That is entirely possible and completely irrelevant.
If It was so,, he was responsible to protect Travon (who was living in that neighborhood) and should have observed (from his vehicle) that Travon was not assaulted on his way home.

If that was so he should have observed (from his vehicle) any attempts to break in to anything.

Neighborhood watch does not equal neighborhood assault.

[coastie]

That is entirely possible and completely irrelevant.
If It was so,, he was responsible to protect Travon (who was living in that neighborhood) and should have observed (from his vehicle) that Travon was not assaulted on his way home.

If that was so he should have observed (from his vehicle) any attempts to break in to anything.

Neighborhood watch does not equal neighborhood assault.

Be careful with your logic here....your making way too much sense for some in here.

[pcosmar]

Which was pulling the trigger. Not accosting Martin. Martin was a stranger in his neighborhood.

NO HE WAS NOT.
His father lived there. He was staying with his father.
Zimmerman's ignorance of this fact is not a valid excuse.

[coastie]

Which was pulling the trigger. Not accosting Martin. Martin was a stranger in his neighborhood.


Yes-to the vigilante wannabe....he was not a stranger to the neighborhood in reality-he was a guest.

So is that a valid excuse for Zimmerman now?

[AuH20]

That is entirely possible and completely irrelevant.
If It was so,, he was responsible to protect Travon (who was living in that neighborhood) and should have observed (from his vehicle) that Travon was not assaulted on his way home.

If that was so he should have observed (from his vehicle) any attempts to break in to anything.

Neighborhood watch does not equal neighborhood assault.

No, it's not. First, you're laying out the situation in such a manner to lead one to believe that Zimmerman ALREADY had those facts in hand, when he confronted Martin. At the time, Martin was a stranger to the neighborhood in his estimation. I have no problem with Zimmerman accosting Martin on principle. For hundreds of years going to back to the Middle Ages, there were night watchmen assigned to street duty in a given village to make certain no one got their throat slit or had their valuables stolen. Rather, I'm questioning why Zimmerman took it upon himself to fire his weapon at Martin. That's the issue.

[TheeJoeGlass]

The media attention is needed because Zimmerman can't be charged by the local authorities so the feds have to get baited into making this a federal hate crime and thus sending Zimmerman to jail. People should stop complaining about the media's role because thats just what they do.

[coastie]

No, it's not. First, you're laying out the situation in such a manner to lead one to believe that Zimmerman ALREADY had those facts in hand, when he confronted Martin. At the time, Martin was a stranger to the neighborhood in his estimation. I have no problem with Zimmerman accosting Martin on principle. For hundreds of years going to back to the Middle Ages, there were night watchmen assigned to street duty in a given village to make certain no one got their throat slit or valuables stolen. Rather, I'm questioning why Zimmerman took it upon himself to fire his weapon at Martin. That's the issue.

So you agree, this all could've been solved with a simple "hey how are you, do you live here?" then?

[Danke]

Be careful with your logic here....your making way too much sense for some in here.

Supposedly he lost sight of the kid, that is why he got out of his vehicle to look around.

But no one really knows all the facts at this point.

[TheeJoeGlass]

It does not matter if the kid was innocent.
He had a RIGHT to BE there.

Zimmerman had NO right to assault him.

If Zimmerman had not gotten OUT of his Vehicle and Confronted (assaulted) Travon there would have been no fight.

How is that so hard to understand.

Zimmerman was well within his right to confront the perp. Why is he not allowed to get out of his truck? Why is he supposed to know that instead of Martin answering in a non criminal manner(running) and simply talk like normal people instead of acting scared that a mexican was gonna hurt him.

[asurfaholic]

Right on cue. Government media complex going for the throat on this.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/22/MSNBC%20Host%20Blames%20Limbaugh%20Gingrich%20Sant orum%20Rhetoric%20For%20Trevon%20Martin%20Death

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/23/MSNBCs-Finney-Links-To-Trayvon-Shooting-To-Kochs-NRA

Now folks understand why many of us are so angry about how this has been presented? Apparently, the conservative, more libertarian segment of society is now responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin as opposed to one man. LOL Go figure. And no one here is defending Zimmerman if he did use excessive force. But this is how the establishment plays.

That's just what I hate about our country. Police killers, police protecting killers. The media never reports the whole story. Here we have the black panthers going public with their hate, and its ok. But if someone opposes obama for something, its called racism.

[pcosmar]

No, it's not. First, you're laying out the situation in such a manner to lead one to believe that Zimmerman ALREADY had those facts in hand, when he confronted Martin. At the time, Martin was a stranger to the neighborhood in his estimation. I have no problem with Zimmerman accosting Martin on principle. For hundreds of years going to back to the Middle Ages, there were night watchmen assigned to street duty in a given village to make certain no one got their throat slit or had their valuables stolen. Rather, I'm questioning why Zimmerman took it upon himself to fire his weapon at Martin. That's the issue.

Whoa. I am in favor of Neighborhood watches.. And of vigilance.

I do have a problem with free people being accosted. Regardless of any alleged authority.

And if this "watchman" was on his job as some claim. why did he not see the kid leave his fathers home only minutes before and walk to that store?

[eduardo89]

Don't we have more pressing issues to worry about than this?

[specsaregood]

Why is he supposed to know that instead of Martin answering in a non criminal manner(running) and simply talk like normal people instead of acting scared that a mexican was gonna hurt him.

You say "non criminal manner", another might argue "purdence". Perhaps the kid had life experiences different than your own that have taught him that it is better to run.

[pcosmar]

Zimmerman was well within his right to confront the perp.

He was not a "perp".
He was the son of a resident who had walked to the store for candy.

[Danke]

Don't we have more pressing issues to worry about than this?


Yes, I still need additional funds to get to Disneyland, thanks.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Cops roughly prevent 20% of the crimes committed


Really? How do you know that? How could anyone possibly know that?

[azxd]

It does not matter if the kid was innocent.
He had a RIGHT to BE there.

Zimmerman had NO right to assault him.

If Zimmerman had not gotten OUT of his Vehicle and Confronted (assaulted) Travon there would have been no fight.

How is that so hard to understand.Because regardless of what the media is telling you, getting out of a vehicle, approaching someone, and asking them questions, or not ... Does not constitute assault.
Stupid perhaps, but it is not assault.

Heck,
I can imagine that in your World asking questions can be equated to assault, but it is only a verbal assault, and aligns with that old phrase about sticks and stones.

ETA:
But I do appreciate your ability to know who is guilty of assault WITHOUT having been there.

[coastie]

Zimmerman was well within his right to confront the perp. Why is he not allowed to get out of his truck?

Because he was CCW in Florida, which requires you to keep your head and not do shit like this. He injected himself into this situation with a gun. It is a FACT that he was on the phone while fat-boy was pursuing him, this is not threatening behavior by any stretch.


Why is he supposed to know that instead of Martin answering in a non criminal manner(running) and simply talk like normal people instead of acting scared that a mexican was gonna hurt him.

Looks like he was right to be scared in the end, doesn't it? Martin wasn't required by law to address Zimmerman regardless, he just wanted to be a cop-he wasn't one.

[Brian Coulter]

I guess I'm the only one who really doesn't give a shit about this case.


Nope

[pcosmar]

ETA:
But I do appreciate your ability to know who is guilty of assault WITHOUT having been there.

An armed man shot an unarmed man.
That is pretty clear.

[frodus24]

I wonder if someone is hoarding video footage?

[Bruno]

Don't we have more pressing issues to worry about than this?

Considering the non-pressing content of some your own posts, that is pretty funny. :p :D

[coastie]

Considering the non-pressing content of some your own posts, that is pretty funny. :p :D

LMAO-beat me to it.

[eduardo89]

Considering the non-pressing content of your own posts, that is pretty funny. :P

Walmart experiences and Danke going to Disneyland are more pressing matters to be discussed than a shooting which no one here really knows any details about.

[coastie]

Walmart experiences and Danke going to Disneyland are more pressing matters to be discussed than a shooting which no one here really knows any details about.

:eek::toady::eek:

[specsaregood]

Walmart experiences and Danke going to Disneyland are more pressing matters to be discussed than a shooting which no one here really knows any details about.

no wonder you are single, you don't recognize the fun in argumentative foreplay.

[AFPVet]

Regarding youth, being in shape has more to do with being physically capable than age. The male frame continues to fill out muscle mass into the 20's and reaches a prime at about 30. I know that if I met my 17 year old twin now at 29, I would beat the crap out of him — not just because of military training, but because I was a toothpick at 17... skin and bone. I am still skinny, but I have a lot more muscle on me, a bigger frame, and more endurance. Being in shape is more important than age!

[angelatc]

Zimmerman was well within his right to confront the perp. Why is he not allowed to get out of his truck? Why is he supposed to know that instead of Martin answering in a non criminal manner(running) and simply talk like normal people instead of acting scared that a mexican was gonna hurt him.

THE PERP?

[coastie]

THE PERP?

Yes, all unidentified black people are considered perps to him.

[angelatc]

You say "non criminal manner", another might argue "purdence". Perhaps the kid had life experiences different than your own that have taught him that it is better to run.

Exactly. For example, if Trayvon had been female nobody would even consider the fact that she should stay and verbally engage somebody who had been following her. John Wayne Gacy talked young men into his apartment on a regular basis.

Before the "Stand Your Ground" law was passed, a person in Trayvon's situation could have been prosecuted for not fleeing a potentially harmful situation, even if not the aggressor. How absolutely sad that he's now being villified for doing exactly that.

[Athan]

Calling Judge Ito and Martha Clark the masses are hungry again.

[Noob]

Trayvon Martin Police Report here It kind of paints a different picture than the media portrayal. 6 eyewitnesses, Zimmerman treated by medics, and said he was yelling for help but nobody came.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

[Dr.3D]

Strange how so many people want to determine guilt or innocence without all of the facts. Myself, I'll wait for the facts before I make up my mind.

[TheeJoeGlass]

Thats bs, on the 911 call, Zimmerman is clearly asking him a non threatening question and he responds by thinking Zimmerman is a white racist and takes off running escolating the situation. The second he refused to respond and took off, he became a perp.

[TheeJoeGlass]

Exactly. For example, if Trayvon had been female nobody would even consider the fact that she should stay and verbally engage somebody who had been following her. John Wayne Gacy talked young men into his apartment on a regular basis.

Before the "Stand Your Ground" law was passed, a person in Trayvon's situation could have been prosecuted for not fleeing a potentially harmful situation, even if not the aggressor. How absolutely sad that he's now being villified for doing exactly that.

What the hell does that even mean, if Trayvon had been a women?!? Why? Totally irrelevant.

[Brian Coulter]

...

[angelatc]

I posted a different story in one of these threads, which seems ready-made for the media to feign outrage, but didn't get the same flurry of interest.



Maybe we just didn't need a "heartbreaking" story that week.

Metro Detroit has at least one a week. Currently, we've even got a serial killer roaming around (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45794835/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/serial-killer-detroit-victims-worked-escorts-police-say/#.T3CUI2HlPCU). The media has spent more time yammering about the site the killer uses to meet his victims (with not-so-subtle undertones of future internet regulation ) than the fact that there is a serial killer roaming the streets.