Robert's Rules of order: need help with this scenerio

[vechorik]

I'm new to RRO and we don't have parliamentary help in my state. (Most of the chairmen at the county-level don't know RRO either!) Is the following logical and is there a better method to battle the Credentials Committee?

I found something interesting regarding the fact that I predict the Credentials Committee will present a slate of "approved delegates" and ask for a vote on them alone. Seems when a committee does this, it's the same as a motion that has already been seconded. Debate should follow, then a vote.

From RRO:
"42. There are two simple rules regarding the need for a second to a motion. If a motion is made by direction of a board of directors or duly appointed committee of more than one person, no second is required. Otherwise, if the wording of the motion begins with, “I move” or “I appeal”, a second is required."

So, cannot the Credentials Committee motion then be amended to include 5 (or some other number) delegates nominated by the elected delegates?

I read where this was done at another state. The extra delegate names were added, but it was obvious that the first names were the ones the committee wanted and the added names (weren't typed and looked added) so the original names won. Another motion (or amendment) would have to be made that the delegate list be amended and re-written in alphabetical order.

From RRO: "27. The three basic processes of amendment are to (a) insert or add, (b) strike out, and (c) strike out and insert. 24. The motion to Amend modifies or clarifies the meaning of a pending motion before the pending motion itself is acted upon." So -- we would have to vote on the amendment (majority) BEFORE the Credentials Committee's main motion could be voted on. This only requires a majority vote (50% plus 1).

If we AMEND their motion to add nominations from the floor, then that amendment must be 2nd, discussed and voted upon BEFORE the main motion (the Credentials Committee original motion) can be voted on. If they don't -- then we call "point of order" and I think the meetings will be informal enough to just say respectfully "point of order, Mr/Ms. Chairman -- the amendment motion must be resolved before voting on the main motion.


If the Credential Committee work is presented (no 2nd necessary) and they ask for a vote instead of discussion -- I would rise, say Mr/Ms. Chairman to get recognition, then present the amendment: "I move to amend the motion to allow elected delegates to nominate 5 additional delegates from the floor." Get your RP buddy to 2nd it immediately. They would have to discuss the Amendment and vote on it BEFORE going back to the main motion (that the Credentials Committee made). If we win the amendment, then RP delegate names are added, THEN the main motion (Credentials Committee request) is diluted and we have some RP people to vote for. I'm new and just trying to see what works. The amendment only requires a majority vote. Tossing out the CC slate first vote go round will be tough to do unless we have a majority of RP there (and we won't in most cases). Most there will just go along with whatever is happening. I think we have a chance of gaining the votes needed if we amend.

[sailingaway]

bump for more knowledgeable eyes....

[devil21]

(Im also learning RR so Im no pro but this is my understanding...no guarantees)

You have the right idea IMHO.

Preventing a fast vote is your number one goal if they try to run a pre-selected slate through on a motion without allowing any debate, amendments or nominations from the floor. A motion from the committee doesn't require a second but it does require being open to debate and amendment like any other motion. Raising a firm point of order to inform the committee and the convention that such a motion is subject to debate and amendment would be required. You then raise a motion to amend to include nominations from the floor or a preselected slate of Paul delegate names if you have one handy. Once your motion to amend is resolved, the original motion is taken back up with the amendments (Paul delegates) included, if your motion to amend was successful. If you suspect this may happen you should have a pretyped list of your Paul delegates ready to go.

[Matt Collins]

I'm new to RRO and we don't have parliamentary help in my state. (Most of the chairmen at the county-level don't know RRO either!) Is the following logical and is there a better method to battle the Credentials Committee?

I found something interesting regarding the fact that I predict the Credentials Committee will present a slate of "approved delegates" and ask for a vote on them alone. Seems when a committee does this, it's the same as a motion that has already been seconded. Debate should follow, then a vote.


If we AMEND their motion to add nominations from the floor, then that amendment must be 2nd, discussed and voted upon BEFORE the main motion (the Credentials Committee original motion) can be voted on. If they don't -- then we call "point of order" and I think the meetings will be informal enough to just say respectfully "point of order, Mr/Ms. Chairman -- the amendment motion must be resolved before voting on the main motion.


If the Credential Committee work is presented (no 2nd necessary) and they ask for a vote instead of discussion -- I would rise, say Mr/Ms. Chairman to get recognition, then present the amendment: "I move to amend the motion to allow elected delegates to nominate 5 additional delegates from the floor." Get your RP buddy to 2nd it immediately. They would have to discuss the Amendment and vote on it BEFORE going back to the main motion (that the Credentials Committee made). If we win the amendment, then RP delegate names are added, THEN the main motion (Credentials Committee request) is diluted and we have some RP people to vote for. I'm new and just trying to see what works. The amendment only requires a majority vote. Tossing out the CC slate first vote go round will be tough to do unless we have a majority of RP there (and we won't in most cases). Most there will just go along with whatever is happening. I think we have a chance of gaining the votes needed if we amend.Well you have to know the bylaws, and/or Constitution of the organization. AND the Convention will likely have to approve rules earlier in the day. So it will greatly depend on what those rules say in conjunction with the already existing Constitution / bylaws.

And I think you mean the Nominations Committee which serves as a gatekeeper for who can be nominated. The Credentials Committee ensures that everyone who is a delegate gets a name-tag/seated as a delegate and that any alternates get to be delegates too.

[vechorik]

Well you have to know the bylaws, and/or Constitution of the organization. AND the Convention will likely have to approve rules earlier in the day. So it will greatly depend on what those rules say in conjunction with the already existing Constitution / bylaws.

And I think you mean the Nominations Committee which serves as a gatekeeper for who can be nominated. The Credentials Committee ensures that everyone who is a delegate gets a name-tag/seated as a delegate and that any alternates get to be delegates too.

MS doesn't have a "Nominations Committee" -- they only have the "Credentials Committee" (appointed + volunteers, mostly ONE MAN who tells everyone what to do and has already stated "We don't want any trouble at the national"). There is one at county level and another Credentials Committee we have to pass at state-level. It's gonna be tough to get RP people past them, but we are also concentrating on being elected to the county Executive Committee and work within the GOP for the next 4 years -- so we'll be in place and much more effective by 2016!

I can find NO written bylaws of the Credentials Committee. The co. bylaws say nothing about the Credentials Committee. The state bylaws says nothing about the Credentials Committee. The GOP elections handbook says the Credentials Committee ensures that nominees are "registered voters and Republicans in good standing." I figure the part about "good standing" can be used to disqualify just about anyone and leaves the Credentials Committee free to do whatever they want. You can bet money I will be on the Credentials Committee next time (to find out what goes on).

I don't have much hope for getting RP delegates from MS, but I'm working as hard as if I don't know that! LOL
I'm studying for the National Parliamentarian's test, but only about 1/8th through it. Just trying to find something that might work and learn enough to try and keep from being railroaded (if that's possible). I've decided not to fight the system, but to become part of it....for future hope.

[PauliticsPolitics]

v:
Sounds like you are doing awesome!
Thank you so much for going through the process of learning. Even if you can't pull something off this season, the knowledge will serve you (and us all) in the future.

[ZanZibar]

MS doesn't have a "Nominations Committee" -- they only have the "Credentials Committee" (appointed + volunteers, mostly ONE MAN who tells everyone what to do and has already stated "We don't want any trouble at the national"). There is one at county level and another Credentials Committee we have to pass at state-level. It's gonna be tough to get RP people past them, but we are also concentrating on being elected to the county Executive Committee and work within the GOP for the next 4 years -- so we'll be in place and much more effective by 2016!

I can find NO written bylaws of the Credentials Committee. The co. bylaws say nothing about the Credentials Committee. The state bylaws says nothing about the Credentials Committee. The GOP elections handbook says the Credentials Committee ensures that nominees are "registered voters and Republicans in good standing." I figure the part about "good standing" can be used to disqualify just about anyone and leaves the Credentials Committee free to do whatever they want. You can bet money I will be on the Credentials Committee next time (to find out what goes on).

I don't have much hope for getting RP delegates from MS, but I'm working as hard as if I don't know that! LOL
I'm studying for the National Parliamentarian's test, but only about 1/8th through it. Just trying to find something that might work and learn enough to try and keep from being railroaded (if that's possible). I've decided not to fight the system, but to become part of it....for future hope.Get a copy of Roberts Rules of Order, latest edition, and read the section about Credentials Committees. Chances are wherever the GOP rules end, RRO begins: http://www.amazon.com/Roberts-Rules-Order-Newly-Revised/dp/030682020X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332868603&sr=8-1

[IDefendThePlatform]

This sounds similar to what happened to us. I recommend raising a point of order that all present who which to be delegates to the next level stand for a count. If this number is more than the number of slots available (likely) then make a motion that the "preamp proved" slate be put on the back burner and that all candidates for delegate have their names put on a list and given 1 minute to speak and state why they should be elected. Then vote, and hopefully all the Ron Paul supporters have lists or know who each other are so you can vote for each other.

Hopefully someone can bring a computer an printer for typing out and printing off the names of the candidates so that everyone can vote. Otherwise there should at least be a copy machine somewhere nearby where you can runoff the list of candidates to be distributed.

[LostNFoundNTx]

Edit: delete me, reviewing answer

[ItsTime]

My brain hurts.

[vechorik]

Get a copy of Roberts Rules of Order, latest edition, and read the section about Credentials Committees. Chances are wherever the GOP rules end, RRO begins: http://www.amazon.com/Roberts-Rules-Order-Newly-Revised/dp/030682020X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332868603&sr=8-1

I'll check it out. Thanks!
Scored 93% on my preliminary/practice test for membership into the National Parliamentarian's Assn! Gonna become a member and keep studying.
http://parliamentarians.org/memberservices.php

[PolicyReader]

This thread makes me happy... and also realize how painfully rust my Robers Rules are at the moment (going to fix that)

[BKom]

MS doesn't have a "Nominations Committee" -- they only have the "Credentials Committee" (appointed + volunteers, mostly ONE MAN who tells everyone what to do and has already stated "We don't want any trouble at the national"). There is one at county level and another Credentials Committee we have to pass at state-level. It's gonna be tough to get RP people past them, but we are also concentrating on being elected to the county Executive Committee and work within the GOP for the next 4 years -- so we'll be in place and much more effective by 2016!

I can find NO written bylaws of the Credentials Committee. The co. bylaws say nothing about the Credentials Committee. The state bylaws says nothing about the Credentials Committee. The GOP elections handbook says the Credentials Committee ensures that nominees are "registered voters and Republicans in good standing." I figure the part about "good standing" can be used to disqualify just about anyone and leaves the Credentials Committee free to do whatever they want. You can bet money I will be on the Credentials Committee next time (to find out what goes on).

I don't have much hope for getting RP delegates from MS, but I'm working as hard as if I don't know that! LOL
I'm studying for the National Parliamentarian's test, but only about 1/8th through it. Just trying to find something that might work and learn enough to try and keep from being railroaded (if that's possible). I've decided not to fight the system, but to become part of it....for future hope.

I agree with whomever said to check RRO about credentials committees. Don't assume the credentials committee has the authority to select a slate of candidates. They mainly determine who is a delegate and what constitutes a quorum, and gives delegate badges to the accredited delegates. If the state and county rules are silent, then it usually falls to RRO for a decision. Check if this is the case in your county.

The motion that was suggested to have all who desire to be delegates nominated from the floor, etc. is exactly on point. And you should have a high speed printer/copier and offer it to the party if they try to give excuses about not being able to print up a new list in the volume necessary. We had this happen in 2008 in NV, and we had the computer and printer all set to go. We won the vote to disregard the slate and have all candidates nominated from the floor. And then they shut down the convention. Up until that last part, things were going very well.

[vechorik]

I agree with whomever said to check RRO about credentials committees. Don't assume the credentials committee has the authority to select a slate of candidates. They mainly determine who is a delegate and what constitutes a quorum, and gives delegate badges to the accredited delegates. If the state and county rules are silent, then it usually falls to RRO for a decision. Check if this is the case in your county.

The motion that was suggested to have all who desire to be delegates nominated from the floor, etc. is exactly on point. And you should have a high speed printer/copier and offer it to the party if they try to give excuses about not being able to print up a new list in the volume necessary. We had this happen in 2008 in NV, and we had the computer and printer all set to go. We won the vote to disregard the slate and have all candidates nominated from the floor. And then they shut down the convention. Up until that last part, things were going very well.



NICE TIPS! Thanks (the printer part is IMPORTANT, have to work on that).

RRO says no convention can be adjourned with business pending!
If they do that in my county, I'll try to keep the delegates there to have a quorum (at least 2/3 of the delegate) and if we can pull that off, I'll try to become temp. chairman and we'll carry on the convention! (That's my dream anyway) Heck, the convention nominates those for the Executive Committee as well (we'll take care of that as well). After, the convention, the Executive Committee meets and elects officers -- we'll do that as well!

If I can't regain control of the convention, I'm at a loss as what to do.

So what happened in NV when they adjourned before the convention was over (broke the rules)?

[vechorik]

Another question (haven't studied the RRO regarding conventions) ballots, elections yet (have to pass the first test before more study) hope to do that soon:

I should ask for paper ballots, right?
My county sends 4.5 delegates to the district/state convention.
How many nominations from the floor should I suggest for the ballot?

PS Sounds like a small number I'm working for, but realize -- what I learn will be passed to ALL counties in MS.
I'm District 1 coordinator for RP and that alone is 24 counties -- 82 counties total. We have until April 28th to get a solid plan.

[IDefendThePlatform]

My county sends 4.5 delegates to the district/state convention.
How many nominations from the floor should I suggest for the ballot?

PS Sounds like a small number I'm working for, but realize -- what I learn will be passed to ALL counties in MS.
I'm District 1 coordinator for RP and that alone is 24 counties -- 82 counties total.

They should allow basically unlimited nominations of anyone who wants to be elected delegates. If anyone objects or there is discussion just point out that there are more wannabe delegates than slots so that means its a competitive process and everyone should have equal opportunity to be elected. Then the top 4.5(?) vote getters win.

[vechorik]

They should allow basically unlimited nominations of anyone who wants to be elected delegates. If anyone objects or there is discussion just point out that there are more wannabe delegates than slots so that means its a competitive process and everyone should have equal opportunity to be elected. Then the top 4.5(?) vote getters win.

Thanks -- yes, 4.5 for my county. I'm in a precinct that only gets .5 delegate 1/2 delegate. I'm a whole person (LOL) by my vote only counts 1/2. There are many counties in MS with 1/2 delegates.