Texas Christians Raise Money To Pay Medical Bills For Atheist Protestor Patrick Greene

[TER]

Texas Christians Raise Money To Pay Medical Bills For Atheist Protestor Patrick Greene (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/christians-pay-medical-bills-for-atheist-protestor_n_1375684.html?ref=good-news&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D146136)

A Texas atheist who earlier this year fought to ban religious symbols on government property in his town is reportedly "flabbergasted" that Christians have offered to help him pay his bills.

The Tyler Morning Telegraph is reporting that Christians in Henderson County have raised around $400 to help Patrick Greene, an atheist who is at risk of going blind in one eye due to a detached retina.

Greene, a former Air Force officer and taxi driver who was forced to retire due to his eye condition, wrote a letter to members of the Henderson County Commissioner's Court in February threatening a lawsuit if they did not move a Nativity scene from court property, the Malakoff News reported.

The Nativity scene had been a source of controversy since it was erected in front of the courthouse last December, an ongoing battle between a variety of groups on which the Malakoff News has reported extensively.

Greene eventually did file suit, but when doctors told him about his eye condition, he decided that could no longer pursue the lawsuit and dropped the case. At that point, he had been forced to retire from his job driving a taxi and was facing mounting medical bills.

So when local Christians wrote him a check for $400 to help him pay his living expenses, Greene was more than surprised.

"They said they wanted to do what real Christians are supposed to do – love you – and they wanted to help," Greene told the Tyler Morning Telegraph.

He told reporters he plans to write about their gesture in a new book, tentatively titled "The Real Christians of Henderson County."

Greene has also setup a website where anyone can donate money to help cover living expenses. On the site, Greene says he and his wife are considering a move to Athens, Texas, where the rent is more affordable, and asks for donations to help cover moving costs.

"You will never know how hard it is to write all of this," Greene writes on the website. "In our 33 years of marriage, Karen and I have never been in this situation."

[BlackTerrel]

Great piece. This is how Christians are supposed to act and most do.

To be honest I'm surprised HuffingtonPost ran an article that showed Christians in a positive light. Edit: Although some of the comments are absurd. You'd think this was the first time a Christian has EVER done anything nice in the history of the world.

[QueenB4Liberty]

This is great!

[bluesc]

I have no patience for Atheists. Then again I'm not a Christian. Kudos to those guys.

[tod evans]

Kudos!

[phill4paul]

Good on 'em. THAT is the true spirit of Christ coming through.

[oyarde]

Excellent

[Esoteric]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

[RiseAgainst]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

No good deed goes unpunished. :rolleyes:

[BlackTerrel]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

I know. Such assholes :rolleyes:

[Tod]

I have to imagine the people of Athens, TX are thinking, "Please, no one donate a cent to this guy; we don't want him here!"

[bluesc]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

Go back to r/Atheism.

[AFPVet]

This is how we should all act... helping another human being despite differences.

[RiseAgainst]

This is how we should all act... helping another human being despite differences.

Yes. This is the Christ I know.

[Kylie]

This is how we should all act... helping another human being despite differences.


Yep. This is how life works for moral people, regardless of personal beliefs. We should all strive for this, and the world would eventually be that better place that we all want.

[UMULAS]

Love thy neighbor.

[Kluge]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

When you make inflammatory comments like that, you ought to be 100% sure you're right and make sure that this Christian group only helps someone out if it's a "stunt."

Do you have any evidence that that is the case?

If not, shut it.

[JamesButabi]

Libertarianism is incompatible without charity and good deeds. I don't care what persuasion people are who step up to the plate; I applaud them.

[BuddyRey]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

There's no such thing as "winning" an argument over religion, because neither Theists nor Atheists have anything but belief on their side. Yeah, I know Atheists hate to hear Atheism characterized as a "belief", but that's what it is.

There's no absolute proof of any particular take on God or the nature of reality, and anyone conceited enough to contend otherwise is just spinning his wheels where there's no pavement in sight.

[Esoteric]

neither Theists nor Atheists have anything but belief on their side.

No.

Please watch at 3:43.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk

[matt0611]

Just more Federal government phony incorporation doctrine run-amok against the people of the states.

There's NOTHING in the Constitution that says what a state can or can't do in regards to showing religious symbols on their property.

[Ivash]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

Seriously, they can't win, can they?

The odds of the media picking up on this story was astonishingly small, so they weren't doing it for media attention, at least.

[Lishy]

I'm an atheist too, though I would never advocate the banning of religion. But that it would merely dissipate over time, and disappears by itself once it becomes unnecessary.

In the meantime, this is a pretty cool story!

[Esoteric]

This gesture was made in self-interest, rather than in true altruism...

"see, we even help this heathen with two horns and a tail, just like jesus would tell us to! We have the high ground! They are terrible people! We are good! We are just! "

[bluesc]

This gesture was made in self-interest, rather than in true altruism. "see, we even help this heathen with two horns and a tail, just like jesus tells us to! We have the high ground! We are right! They are terrible people! We are good!"

Fine. I'll provide a link to make it easy for you >> http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/

[Esoteric]

Fine. I'll provide a link to make it easy for you >> http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/

That's an easy way to take attention away from the fact that you are batshit crazy and can't defend your position, but that's about it.

[bluesc]

That's an easy way to take attention away from the fact that you are batshit crazy, but that's about it.

How exactly am I batshit crazy?

[Esoteric]

How exactly am I batshit crazy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk

[bluesc]

can't defend your position

My position?

Because if you're not a Christian, you have to be an asshole, RIGHT?!?!

[RiseAgainst]

That's an easy way to take attention away from the fact that you are batshit crazy and can't defend your position, but that's about it.

Man, it's sooooooooooo annoying when you can't get those religious people to shut up with pushing their religion on you....


Oh wait, it's an atheist? They're just trying to enlighten you, you should be thankful...

[BSWPaulsen]

*sigh*

Esoteric - I'm an agnostic atheist as well, but could you possibly pick worse timing for the argument? If Christians, or any individuals for that matter, want to help someone out that believes differently than them, then it should be applauded. Obviously the man in need was accepting of the aid, no matter the philosophical differences he has with them.

Refusing the aid to further the argument would've been the equivalent of cutting off his nose to spite his face - nobody wins in that scenario. This way he gets help, Christians got their good deed, and life goes on.

The gnostic/agnostic theist/atheist argument can go on another time.

It's just about worthless to argue anyway, time would be better spent on finding practical uses for our time that everyone can agree on - like getting Ron Paul elected and the government out of our lives. ;):D

[Ivash]

This gesture was made in self-interest, rather than in true altruism...

"see, we even help this heathen with two horns and a tail, just like jesus would tell us to! We have the high ground! They are terrible people! We are good! We are just! "

Look, neither you nor I know why they did what they did. Maybe some decided that they would want to appear 'better' than the other side. I doubt it, though; most people don't think like that. But there is no reason to state it as if you 'know' it is true. That just makes you look like an idiot.


I'm an atheist too, though I would never advocate the banning of religion. But that it would merely dissipate over time, and disappears by itself once it becomes unnecessary.

In the meantime, this is a pretty cool story!

I doubt it will. All people in all cultures have an innate belief in the spiritual. Throughout history we have seen when a culture loses its spirituality another one (or another form of the same faith) is just about to sweep through the population again (Russia after communism fell, China today, Greece before Christianity, etc).


That's an easy way to take attention away from the fact that you are batshit crazy and can't defend your position, but that's about it.

I will defend my position- the early spread of Christianity in the Roman Empire is not only the greatest social change in history, but one that lacks any particular reasons for it. For the Romans to worship a Jewish provincial lower class carpenter who died like a slave (crucifiction was a death only used for slaves- see Spartacus) was literally as unlikely as Southern Americans religiously following a black female slave before the Civil War. At Christ's death there were only a few dozen followers; a century later (during one of the greatest eras in human history, so it wasn't a breakdown of Empire that caused its fundamental social stabilizer, which was the Roman form of paganism, that caused the spread of the faith) there were enough to not only be severely prosecuted, but large enough to be considered a majority in several Roman provinces. I'm sure you know the rest of the story, so I won't bore you with it.

There are plenty of historical differences in the early faith that make it lack... well, lack historical plausibility.

There are a few other arguments (and the one above can go on for literally pages and pages) including the 'problem of beginning'. Regardless of how you want to look at it, what came first is (by its very definition) 'supernatural'.

I'm willing to bet money that most people will just ignore this post, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

[Esoteric]

*sigh*

Esoteric - I'm an agnostic atheist as well, but could you possibly pick worse timing for the argument? If Christians, or any individuals for that matter, want to help someone out that believes differently than them, then it should be applauded. Obviously the man in need was accepting of the aid, no matter the philosophical differences he has with them.

Refusing the aid to further the argument would've been the equivalent of cutting off his nose to spite his face - nobody wins in that scenario. This way he gets help, Christians got their good deed, and life goes on.

This is exactly the problem I have with this. The guy was in a position where he was very unlikely to refuse someone giving him something for free, even if he could have taken care of it himself. The church took advantage of his position to pull a PR stunt.

[BSWPaulsen]

This is exactly the problem I have with this. The guy was in a position where he was very unlikely to refuse someone giving him something for free, even if he could have taken care of it himself. The church took advantage of his position to pull a PR stunt.

...People can pull all the PR stunts they want if they're helping me when I need it. Regardless of motivation.

They win, I win, everyone is happy. Just sayin'.

(And it's not like they are clairvoyant - they had to find out about his problems before they knew he needed help - I find it hard to hold against them)

[Ivash]

This is exactly the problem I have with this. The guy was in a position where he was very unlikely to refuse someone giving him something for free, even if he could have taken care of it himself. The church took advantage of his position to pull a PR stunt.

Ya'know, a good friend of mine got into a long argument recently with an extreme liberal over the nature of charity. The liberal said that almost all charity was just rich people throwing bones to the poor to keep the poor in place, as well as for tax write offs. My friends said (and I fully agree) that we should honour charity regardless of the intentions behind it, because, hell, it doesn't even matter what the giver's intentions were.

Also, I mean, if the church didn't give him money it isn't like anyone would hold it against them, so they had to care enough to organize it first.

[Esoteric]

The church took money that was extracted from their parishioners, and used it to pull a charitable PR stunt. What other entity does this sound like, that we all love so much..

[Ivash]

The church took money that was extracted from their parishioners, and used it to pull a charitable PR stunt. What other entity does this sound like, that we all love so much..

...Money which was donated. They didn't need to give any money- I can guarantee you that there were people in that church that didn't give any money. And those that did chose to give money.

You really aren't thinking logically right now.

[Esoteric]

...Money which was donated.

Sometimes.

[Esoteric]

BTW, why is it that every secular / atheitst thread gets moved to the religion forum or hot topics, but these threads pop up, they stay put?

[Ivash]

Sometimes.

Nah, churches can't really legally demand money in the US, particularly for charity work. That is why some beliefs (like Scientology) have has issues being declared a 'religious' organization.

[phill4paul]

Leave it up to an atheist preacherman to fuck up a story on charitable giving. Give it a rest Esoteric. This from an atheist.
The government is doing everything it can to take charitable giving out of the hands of individuals and private institution including making laws against feeding the poor. If ya gotta bitch about religion then do it when you got a solid gripe.
I suppose you would rather the government get involved and take from taxpayers to help the man out?
Just give it a fucking rest. This from an atheist.

[BlackTerrel]

This gesture was made in self-interest, rather than in true altruism...

"see, we even help this heathen with two horns and a tail, just like jesus would tell us to! We have the high ground! They are terrible people! We are good! We are just! "

And yet they helped someone.

Why is that bad?

[Kylie]

Leave it up to an atheist preacherman to fuck up a story on charitable giving. Give it a rest Esoteric. This from an atheist.
The government is doing everything it can to take charitable giving out of the hands of individuals and private institution including making laws against feeding the poor. If ya gotta bitch about religion then do it when you got a solid gripe.
I suppose you would rather the government get involved and take from taxpayers to help the man out?
Just give it a fucking rest. This from an atheist.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again

Sorry buddy. I tried. :(

[Esoteric]

Leave it up to an atheist preacherman to fuck up a story on charitable giving. Give it a rest Esoteric. This from an atheist.

This from an atheist.

Really? You're an atheist? Post #6 in this thread:


THAT is the true spirit of Christ coming through.

"Though shalt not lie, unless it hath be to try to sound more credible while refuting the behavior of an atheist"

[phill4paul]

Really? You're an atheist? Post #3 in this thread:



"Though shalt not lie, unless it hath be to try to sound more credible while refuting the behavior of an atheist"

Oh back off you silly git. Yes, I'm a fucking atheist. Yes, I have an understanding of the various religions and this is what I believe that those that believe in Christ should aspire to. It makes life better for all around them. Including myself. Pick your fights when you have a true cause. Your just being belligerent for the sake of it.

[DerailingDaTrain]

Nice to see this. It put a smile on my face

[Esoteric]

Nah, churches can't really legally demand money in the US, particularly for charity work. That is why some beliefs (like Scientology) have has issues being declared a 'religious' organization.

Really? There is a christian church by me that requires $10k/yr for membership. Sure, you can go elsewhere, but it does happen.

[Kluge]

My guess is that Esoteric was just hurting for some attention. Aside from Scientology, I've never heard of a church that requires a membership fee.

[bluesc]

Banned for the 2nd time in the last 2 months for the exact same offense?

His atheist crusade must mean a lot to him.

[BuddyRey]

At least before he got banned, he broke my neg rep cherry. :D

[oyarde]

Making a symbolic gesture to portray themselves as 'taking the high road'. When you can't win with logic, I guess pulling stunts like this is the best you can do.

Meh, I doubt it , where I grew up , in a rural community of hard working , extremely frugal German Lutheran farmers , they was no such thing as a " symbolic gesture "....

[oyarde]

The church took money that was extracted from their parishioners, and used it to pull a charitable PR stunt. What other entity does this sound like, that we all love so much.. Religion does not 'extract" money , govt does ...

[oyarde]

Banned for the 2nd time in the last 2 months for the exact same offense?

His atheist crusade must mean a lot to him. I do not think he should be banned.

[oyarde]

Really? There is a christian church by me that requires $10k/yr for membership. Sure, you can go elsewhere, but it does happen. I have never heard of such a thing , do they have a golf course or something ;) ??

[oyarde]

I do not play golf....

[Cleaner44]

The Golden Rule... it works! Well done Texans.

To bad some so-called Christians will boo Ron Paul for suggesting such a thing.

[MaxPower]

Wonderful; we need more stories like this.

"I tell you to love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who abuse and persecute you." -Jesus Christ

[eduardo89]

I do not think he should be banned.

I don't know, I hate people getting banned but it seems all he ever does is trash people of faith. It's fine to debate and those usually get quite heated, but he doesn't even do that, he just insults for the sake of it.

[DerailingDaTrain]

This is exactly the problem I have with this. The guy was in a position where he was very unlikely to refuse someone giving him something for free, even if he could have taken care of it himself. The church took advantage of his position to pull a PR stunt.

You're making an argument out of nothing. He is an atheist who most likely ridicules the religion they follow and they were still nice enough to give him money to help him out. It wasn't so that they look good. They were just following the basic teachings of their religion. Get a life

[TER]

update

Atheist Activist Becomes Christian After Believers Show Him Compassion (http://www.christianpost.com/news/atheist-activist-becomes-christian-after-believers-show-him-compassion-72655/)
By Jeff Schapiro , Christian Post Reporter
April 4, 2012|2:31 pm

A few months ago Patrick Greene was an atheist who was threatening to sue Henderson County, Texas, if the county didn't remove a Nativity scene from its courthouse lawn. Today he is a believer in Christ who underwent a radical change of heart that was catalyzed by the compassion of one Christian woman.

In late 2011, Greene joined the fight against a Nativity scene that had been set up outside the courthouse in the town of Athens, Texas, threatening to file a lawsuit over it. Shortly after he made his threat, however, he discovered that his ability to see was rapidly deteriorating and he would soon be blind, so he withdrew his threats and left the Nativity alone.

That's when Jessica Crye, a Christian woman from Athens, asked her pastor, Erick Graham of Sand Springs Baptist Church, if they could help Greene. As a result of her kindness, thousands of dollars in donations have gone toward helping Greene, who has reconsidered his view of God as a result.

"There's been one lingering thought in the back of my head my entire life, and it's one thought that I've never been able to reconcile, and that is the vast difference between all the animals and us," Greene told The Christian Post on Tuesday, as he began to explain his recent transformation from atheist to Christian. The theory of evolution didn't answer his questions, he says, so he just set those questions aside and didn't think about them anymore.

But when the Christians in a town that had reason to be angry with him showed him a gesture of love, he began reconsidering his beliefs altogether. He eventually began to realize that evolution would never have the answer to his questions, he says, and it was at that time he began to believe in God.

"I kind of realized that the questions I [was] asking you just had to accept on faith without doubting every period and every comma," he said. He later began studying the Bible, both the Old Testament and the Gospels, and also discovered his belief that Jesus is the Son of God.

Now this former atheist says he's not only a Christian, but he also wants to become a pastor.

Greene plans to either join a nearby liberal congregation or may even start his own chapter of the Rainbow Baptists, an outreach ministry of The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists that supports the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. He says he feels strongly that homosexuality is acceptable in Christianity, and claims the Bible's original approach to issues of homosexuality has been altered over the last 2,000 years.

Greene says his wife of nearly 34 years, who is still an atheist, was "surprised" at his conversion but understands him. Even though they disagree on the issue, they haven't argued over it.

"We don't interfere with each other's differences, we don't put each other down because of it," he said.

As a symbol of his appreciation to the Christian community both in and around Athens, Greene has purchased a star for the top of the tree that is part of the Christmas display he once railed against. He has also written a letter to the Freedom From Religion Foundation, an organization that said the Nativity display was unconstitutional, to explain why their legal arguments against the Nativity are not valid.

Formerly a self-employed taxi cab driver, Greene was forced to give up his career after being diagnosed with cataracts and discovering symptoms of a detached retina and glaucoma. Although he says blindness is inevitable, he is still pursuing a second opinion of his diagnosis.

Greene says he was able to pay for his rent, bills, groceries and money owed from taxes thanks to the generous donations made by both Christians and atheists alike. In addition to receiving money from Sand Springs Baptist Church, he also received funds through two Go Fund Me fundraising accounts he set up for himself.

He hopes to eventually use some of the donation money to move out of his San Antonio apartment and get his wife the "dream" mobile home that she has always wanted. Once he purchases the mobile home, any leftover money that was donated to him will go to the Humane Society in order to help the fight against animal cruelty and abuse.

Greene was raised in a Catholic family, and says he read the Bible frequently during his teenage years. As a new Christian, he says he finds it "shameful" for someone to say they are a Christian but not make it a habit of reading the Scriptures.

"What has always bugged me, which I want to make a change to ...is the vast amount of Christians in this country don't read the Bible regularly or don't read it at all," he said.

Atheists are proud when they know more about the Bible than Christians do, he says, and he hopes to get people to read it so regularly that it becomes "just like waking up and brushing their teeth."

[Xhin]

There's a big difference between an atheist and a Neo-Atheist. atheists simply lack a belief in God; Neo-Atheists have a positive belief in the non-existence of God as well as myriad other beliefs about religion and the religious in general. In my experience, Neo-Atheists tend to be atheists that were oppressed by religion/the religious to some extent. They're likely to have been raised/forced into Christianity so have a resentment against it. Neo-Atheism really resembles a religion in a lot of ways, but its followers will still resort to "well, I just lack a belief in gods" to end any argument.

[Sullivan*]

People like Esoteric make me want to punch babies.

http://humour.200ok.com.au/img/bigcupofshutthefuckup.jpg

[Esoteric]

I do not think he should be banned.

Thank you. I'm back, after a 3 week sentence for expressing my beliefs in this thread... The double standard strikes again.

[bluesc]

Thank you. after a 3 week sentence for expressing my beliefs in this thread, I'm back. The double standard strikes again.

WE MUST RID THE WORLD OF THEISTS! I WILL USE MY PHD IN ATHEISM GRANTED BY NEIL DEGRASSE SAGAN.

[Esoteric]

its followers will still resort to "well, I just lack a belief in gods" to end any argument.

No, I actually just lack a belief in gods. Depending on your definition of "god", I will either reject it as demonstrably false, or as being theoretically possible, but irresolvable, therefore not meriting belief. Most definitions of god, including yaweh, fall into the former category.

[Esoteric]

WE MUST RID THE WORLD OF THEISTS! I WILL USE MY PHD IN ATHEISM GRANTED BY NEIL DEGRASSE SAGAN.

How can you hate on Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan?!!! Those guys are literally the most non-abrasive atheists ever!

[bluesc]

How can you hate on Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan?!!! Those guys are literally the most non-abrasive atheists ever!

He disassociates himself from your kind.

"The only -ist I am is a scientist" "I'm constantly claimed by Atheists, which I find intriguing"

He himself changed his wikipedia page twice to remove "atheist" and switch it to "agnostic". He talks about people like you in this video too:

http://bigthink.com/think-tank/neil-degrasse-tyson-atheist-or-agnostic

A favorite: "It's odd that the word atheist even exists. I don't play golf. Is there a word for non-golf players? Do non-golf players gather and strategize? Do non-skiers have a word, and come together and talk about the fact that they don't ski? I can't do that. I can't gather around a room and talk about how much everyone doesn't believe in god".

He's basically ripping into your circlejerk.

[Esoteric]

semantics

[bluesc]

semantics

Sure doesn't sound like simple semantics to me. He takes the same position as me, and it's another reason I love the guy.

Funny how the other butthurt Atheists in denial make the "semantics" argument in the comment section as well.

[kcchiefs6465]

This story has restored my hope for America.

[phill4paul]

LOL. Thread to be revived after one week 'time-out.' :p

[PreDeadMan]

Even though I'm an Atheist it's great to see that sort of helping hand from mankind despite belief differences.

[BlackTerrel]

Even though I'm an Atheist it's great to see that sort of helping hand from mankind despite belief differences.

+Rep sir. And I'm a Christian.