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Anti Federalist
03-20-2012, 10:47 PM
"I know you are all involved and you support the insurgents. So now, you will pay for it - you and your children will pay for this'."

So says an Afghan citizen was told by a US soldier, just days before the recent massacre.




Afghan villagers told they would pay for bomb days ahead of massacre of 16

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/afghan-villagers-told-they-would-pay-for-bomb-days-ahead-of-massacre-of-16/story-e6frg6so-1226305886039

RESIDENTS of an Afghan village near where an American soldier is alleged to have killed 16 civilians are convinced that the slayings were in retaliation for a roadside bomb attack on US forces in the same area a few days earlier.

In accounts to The Associated Press and to Afghan government officials, the residents allege that US troops lined up men from the village of Mokhoyan against a wall after the bombing on either March 7 or 8, and told them they would pay a price for the attack.

The lawyer for Army Staff Sergeant Robert Bales, who is accused in the March 11 killings of the 16 civilians, has said that his client was upset because a buddy had lost a leg in an explosion on March 9.

It's unclear if the bombing cited by lawyer John Henry Browne was the same as the one described by the villagers that prompted the alleged threats. After a meeting at a military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, Mr Browne said Sgt Bales told him a roadside bomb blew off the leg of one of his friends two days before the shootings occurred.
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A spokesman for the US military declined to give any information on the bombing or even confirm that it occurred, citing the investigation of the shootings. He also declined to comment on the allegation that US troops threatened retaliation.

"The shooting incident as well as any possibilities that led up to it or might be associated with it will be investigated," US forces in Afghanistan spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Jimmie Cummings,said.

Sgt Bales, 38, is suspected of leaving a US base in Panjwai district of Kandahar province, entering homes and gunning down nine children, four men and three women before dawn on March 11 in the villages of Balandi and Alkozai. Mokhoyan is about 500 metres east of the base.

The shootings have further strained ties between the US government and President Hamid Karzai who has accused the US military of not cooperating with a delegation he appointed to investigate the killings.

Mr Karzai's investigative team is not convinced that one soldier could have single-handedly left his base, walked to the two villages, and carried out the killings and set fire to some of the victims' bodies. The US military has said that even though its investigation is continuing, everything currently points to one shooter.

The US military does not release information on incidents such as roadside bombings if no coalition troops are killed so it has been impossible to independently confirm the eyewitness accounts.

Ghulam Rasool, a tribal elder from Panjwai district, gave an account of the bombing at a March 16 meeting in Kabul with Mr Karzai in the wake of the shootings.

"After the incident, they took the wreckage of their destroyed tank and their wounded people from the area," Mr Rasool said. "After that, they came back to the village nearby the explosion site.

"The soldiers called all the people to come out of their houses and from the mosque," he said.

"The Americans told the villagers 'A bomb exploded on our vehicle. ... We will get revenge for this incident by killing at least 20 of your people,"' Mr Rasool said. "These are the reasons why we say they took their revenge by killing women and children in the villages."

Naek Mohammad, who lives in Mokhoyan, told AP that he was inside his home when he heard an explosion on March 8.

"At first I thought it was an airstrike," Mr Mohammad said.

"After some time I came out and talked with my neighbour. He told me that there was an explosion on NATO forces."

Mr Mohammad said that as the two discussed the incident, two Afghan soldiers approached them and ordered them to join other men from the village who had been told to stand against a wall.

"One of the villagers asked what was happening," he said. "The Afghan army soldier told him 'Shut up and stand there'."

Mr Mohammad said a US soldier, speaking through a translator, then said: "I know you are all involved and you support the insurgents. So now, you will pay for it - you and your children will pay for this'."

Mr Mohammad's neighbour, Bakht Mohammad, and Ahmad Shah Khan, also of Mokhoyan, gave similar accounts.

The US soldiers arrived in the village with their Afghan army counterparts and made many of the male villagers stand against a wall, Mr Khan said.

"It looked like they were going to shoot us, and I was very afraid," said Mr Khan. "Then a NATO soldier said through his translator that even our children will pay for this. Now they have done it and taken their revenge."

Several Afghan officials, including Kandahar lawmaker Abdul Rahim Ayubi, said people in the two villages that were attacked told them the same story.

Lishy
03-21-2012, 12:20 AM
No, you're lying. We're there building homes, schools, and spreading democracy! How DARE you say otherwise after everything we've done!

phill4paul
03-21-2012, 05:01 AM
It has been SOP of occupying armies since the dawn of warfare. Kill 1 of ours and we will kill 20 of yours. Our lives are worth more than yours. Bend the knee or we will commit genocide on your people all while declaring that it is an effort to stop reprisals.

Anti Federalist
03-21-2012, 10:34 AM
It has been SOP of occupying armies since the dawn of warfare. Kill 1 of ours and we will kill 20 of yours. Our lives are worth more than yours. Bend the knee or we will commit genocide on your people all while declaring that it is an effort to stop reprisals.

Yup, that's about it.

And to think, we called the Viet Cong savages when they did the same thing...

UtahApocalypse
03-21-2012, 10:50 AM
I still think that the soldier is a patsy.
He went through SEVERAL houses shooting people, dragged bodies to another location and set them on fire..... all by himself?

QuickZ06
03-21-2012, 11:06 AM
I still think that the soldier is a patsy.
He went through SEVERAL houses shooting people, dragged bodies to another location and set them on fire..... all by himself?

Be a good American and try not to think......

Like all stories that relate to our government, things just don't add up.

Anti Federalist
03-21-2012, 11:25 AM
I still think that the soldier is a patsy.
He went through SEVERAL houses shooting people, dragged bodies to another location and set them on fire..... all by himself?

Wait...UtahApocalypse says it's a...conspiracy??!!

<<<<Checks under his feet to see if the earth is going to open underneath me.

LOL.

Listen, all kidding aside, I happen to agree, the facts are not adding up at all.

Also, keep in mind that these Afghans are not saying it was Bales that said that.

donnay
03-21-2012, 11:49 AM
I still think that the soldier is a patsy.
He went through SEVERAL houses shooting people, dragged bodies to another location and set them on fire..... all by himself?


*Applauds*

Way to step out of the box!!

Tyler_Durden
03-21-2012, 12:31 PM
I still think that the soldier is a patsy.
He went through SEVERAL houses shooting people, dragged bodies to another location and set them on fire..... all by himself?


Pretty much all of this^^^ ------->

The latest news is that Sgt. Bales doesn't recall (not surprising to me) the incident at all. At the same time, the News is reporting how he was a con man who bilked people out of money before joining the military 10yrs ago. They are shaping public opinion to show this guy as a scum bag.

I believe Sgt. Bales is a fall guy. Simple as that. They couldn't publicize that a group of soldiers killed these civilians. Not after the damage control they were going through after the Koran burnings.....


It appears the Afghanis aren't buying the "one man shooting spree" story...

http://rt.com/news/massacre-kandahar-soldier-american-705/



Could there be a cover-up? Was it a lone solider or a group of drunken soldiers?



http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/11/us-afghanistan-civilians-idUSBRE82A02V20120311


If this is true, is urinating on dead bodies or burning dead bodies a new thing for some of these alleged war criminals? Their holy books were allegdly burnt accidentally, what is the official line for burning of dead bodies/urination?

Why would they burn bodies afterwards after getting drunk and killing civilains including children and women in house? In an incidence in Iraq in Mahmudiyah killings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings ) when some soldiers were convicted of going into a house after getting drunk, killing civilians including women and children and burning bodies afterwards were also accused of raping a 14 year old girl. There is abolutely no such accusation here, what were they trying to accomplish by burning bodies if they indeed did that?


One soldier could kill over a dozen and injure others, but it doesn't make sense how that one soldier could burn them too. I am apt to believe the eyewitness reports of a group of drunken soldiers. When I was in the Marines, we did some crazy shit when we were drunk......this is bad news.


Standard issue is 30 rounds per mag. One guy is certainly capable, but my gut tells me the witness accounts are accurate and the damage control being done now is to make it look like an isolated incident by one soldier. Or perhaps one soldier carried it out and others came along to torch the bodies. Either way, there's alot of unanswered questions. And yes, it's tragic.


The more I read into this, the more I smell a cover-up. This was not a one-man incident:



http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/11/world/asia/afghanistan-us-service-member/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


I'm telling you - the more I read into this, the more I smell a cover-up. This wasn't a one-man incident. This development of the official story stinks to hell. I'm starting to read articles that don't include the witness reports of multiple drunken and laughing soldiers.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/11/world/asia/afghanistan-us-service-member/index.html?hpt=hp_t1




how does a soldier walk off a secure base at 3am?

"...a U.S. service member stationed at a U.S. base in the southern Kandahar province walked off the base around 3 a.m. local time......"
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/11/us-offers-condolences-as-us-service-member-investigated-for-alleged-killing/

Anti Federalist
03-21-2012, 02:16 PM
Extraps

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/108309.html

Posted by Lew Rockwell on March 20, 2012 08:37 PM

Writes Brian Wilson:

Okay....

SSG Robert Bales plotted and executed an attack that killed innocent Afghan civilians.

SSG Robert Bales is being sheltered in another nation.

Afghan authorities have demanded he be given to them for punishment.

The sheltering nation has refused.

Seems to me that Afghanistan is now justified, based on precedent established in international law, in bombing the living crap out of Washington DC and the entire East Coast and then landing troops to shoot the snot out of whatever's left.

I wonder if they can assemble a Coalition of the Willing to make it happen?

flightlesskiwi
03-21-2012, 02:27 PM
and Diane Sawyer made the statement that "an international incident almost occurred" when the Afghan drove the truck towards the plane that Panetta was on.....

i'll ask again: WTF constitutes an international incident these days? certainly not the slaughtering of tens, hundreds, thousands of Afghans.

(i agree with everyone in this thread posted this dude did not act alone)



Extraps

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/108309.html

Posted by Lew Rockwell on March 20, 2012 08:37 PM

Writes Brian Wilson:

Okay....

SSG Robert Bales plotted and executed an attack that killed innocent Afghan civilians.

SSG Robert Bales is being sheltered in another nation.

Afghan authorities have demanded he be given to them for punishment.

The sheltering nation has refused.

Seems to me that Afghanistan is now justified, based on precedent established in international law, in bombing the living crap out of Washington DC and the entire East Coast and then landing troops to shoot the snot out of whatever's left.

I wonder if they can assemble a Coalition of the Willing to make it happen?

NoOneButPaul
03-21-2012, 02:46 PM
For the love of God... bring these people home.

moostraks
03-21-2012, 02:54 PM
For the love of God... bring these people home.

mmm....be careful what you wish for!

PaulConventionWV
03-21-2012, 07:18 PM
It sounds like a MKULTRA experiment to me. The subject being Bales. No wonder he doesn't remember...

Lishy
03-22-2012, 05:10 AM
To be honest, isn't it technically possible to go through so many houses, killing 18 people? Afghans have big families, so let's estimate 4 per' house. He's probably wielding an m16 or something, and it isn't so easy to stop someone with such a gun...

In theory, he only had to enter 6 houses. That's still a lot, and I'd assume one would have had a machete, but school shooters are often able to kill more than he did!

Don't get the wrong idea from my post.. I still don't trust the official story, because these are the same people who tried to cover up the helicopter video of them gunning down civilians. I just want to know what REALLY went on here after all sides of the story are put on the table.

moderate libertarian
03-22-2012, 06:05 AM
Pretty much all of this^^^ ------->

The latest news is that Sgt. Bales doesn't recall (not surprising to me) the incident at all. At the same time, the News is reporting how he was a con man who bilked people out of money before joining the military 10yrs ago. They are shaping public opinion to show this guy as a scum bag.

I believe Sgt. Bales is a fall guy. Simple as that. They couldn't publicize that a group of soldiers killed these civilians. Not after the damage control they were going through after the Koran burnings.....

That is starting to look more and more probable. Good observations.

flightlesskiwi
03-22-2012, 06:52 AM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10793837


The Pentagon has disputed claims by Afghans near the villages where a US soldier is alleged to have killed 16 civilians that there had been a roadside bombing in that vicinity a few days earlier that wounded US soldiers.

A Pentagon spokesman, Navy Capt. John Kirby, said US officials have found no record of such an attack.

Villagers have said they are convinced that the March 11 massacre, allegedly carried out by Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, was in retaliation for the earlier roadside bombing of a US military vehicle on March 7 or 8. They said it occurred in Mokhoyan, a village about 500 yards (450 meters) east of the base where Bales was working.

The villagers have also claimed that US troops lined them up against a wall after the earlier roadside bombing and told them that they, and even their children, would pay a price for the attack.

"What I can tell you now is that we don't have any indication that either the attack that's being described occurred, and certainly no evidence that there were any threats of retaliation by US soldiers, but investigators are looking at everything right now," Kirby said.


Separately, a US defence official said it is likely that a soldier from Bales' unit, based in the Panjwai district of Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan, suffered a leg wound a day or two before the March 11 shootings, but military officials have no evidence that this has any connection to the massacre. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss an internal review.

The leg wounding was first mentioned publicly by Bales' lawyer, John Henry Browne, who has said that his client was upset around the time of the village massacre because a friend had lost a leg in an explosion on March 9.

The US defence official said that while there are indications of such a wounding there is no evidence that Bales witnessed it or the aftermath or that this played any role in his actions on March 11.

US criminal charges are expected to be filed soon against Bales, who is being detained at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

also, his lawyer is questioning the evidence provided against him.

tod evans
03-22-2012, 06:58 AM
For the love of God... bring these people home.

Could we possibly replace them with Panetta and his cronies in Washington?

We could kill two birds that way and maybe even right things with the locals.

kezt777
03-22-2012, 07:03 AM
I have seen a lot of questions posed about not just how he got into the homes, but the fact that he supposedly walked on foot from the base to the two different towns to do this, and then walked back to the base to turn himself in. I don't know how far the base is from the towns, have not heard about any of that yet, and do not know what time he apparently left the base, or what time he would have had to leave in order to do all that and then get back.... it does sound very odd. It should be easy enough for the news people to find out how far it would be in walking distance and then figure out some time frames with a person walking, running... but I have not heard that. It's quite bizarre but Im not ready to believe that he is a full patsy. I would be willing to think he was involved somehow and I would also be willing to think that it was actually possible for him to act alone - if there was more of an idea of a time frame. How far apart are the towns/villages? How far apart were the homes? Etc etc.

georgiaboy
03-22-2012, 07:12 AM
Sorry for the possibly stupid question on this, but even taking it on face value, how did this incident get into the media at all, given what an embarrassment it is to the US gov't?

flightlesskiwi
03-22-2012, 07:29 AM
Sorry for the possibly stupid question on this, but even taking it on face value, how did this incident get into the media at all, given what an embarrassment it is to the US gov't?

that is NOT a stupid question.

that is THE question.

but i wouldn't ask "how?"... i'd ask "why?"

moderate libertarian
03-27-2012, 06:06 PM
Sorry for the possibly stupid question on this, but even taking it on face value, how did this incident get into the media at all, given what an embarrassment it is to the US gov't?

Probably like Abu Ghraib, once news has spread in Iraq or Afghanistan (where freedom war is going on) and can longer be contained, best to get ahead of it and leak it in US media too from damage control pov.