NH - Portsmouth women being sued for thousands of dollars for planting flowers.

[Anti Federalist]

Now, before everybody freaks out, this women claims that she had permission to plant these flowers before there even was a condo association.

That said, anybody who willfully enters into one of these Little Hitler condo fiefdoms is nutz AFAIC.




Woman sued for planting flowers gets support from media, gardeners

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20120319-NEWS-120319693

By Elizabeth Dinan
edinan@seacoastonline.com
March 19, 2012 3:09 PM

PORTSMOUTH — An Atlantic Pointe condo owner being sued for planting flowers said she's “completely flabbergasted” by the offers of help and massive media attention her story received since being published Sunday on seacoastonline.

Kimberly Bois, a homeowner in the condo complex since 2008, has been summonsed to court by the condo association which seeks fines for every day she leaves her daisies, bearded irises, lavender, hydrangeas and tulip bulbs in the ground around her condo. Many of the perennials are heirloom plants from Bois' late mother and all were planted with permission from the developer before there was a condo association, Bois said.

Describing the land where she's planted the perennials as common area, the condo board mailed Bois 13 certified letters, which progressed from an order to cease-and-desist having the flowers, to a demand for her to dig up the plants and pay fines and penalties.

After reading about Bois' blossoming predicament, a York, Maine, woman offered to host Bois' plants in her own yard if Bois is forced to remove them.

“As I also have some heirloom plants that came from my grandmother's, and then my mother's gardens, I can understand how she feels,” the woman wrote.

The York gardener has offered to allow Bois to move her plants to her garden and said, “she would be able to come visit them whenever she likes.”

Rochester resident Donna Claveau read the story and said, “as a garden lover I wanted to do something to lend my support.” Claveau said Bois simply “wants to beautiful her condo yard” and said she plans to ask her garden club to write letters showing similar support.

In the meantime, Bois said she's been contacted by WBZ and FOX news television stations, a radio station and two news wire services.

Versions of the story have since been published by the Huffington Post, MSN, the Boston Herald, Boston.com, Yahoo, America Online, Newser, the Portland Press Herald, New England Cable News and various other news outlets.

“I didn't expect that much interest,” she said. “I think people are looking for an ounce of joy and happiness now, especially in this bad economy. I think that's what people are responding to.”

The fines levied against Bois began accruing Oct. 24, 2011, at a rate of $25 a day and have since increased to $50 a day. Monthly letters provide her with a current balance and were followed by a Feb. 23 notice that a lien was put on her condo for $4,500 in back fines. Bois has also been notified that she has to pay the condo board's attorney's fees for suing her.

Instead, she and a neighbor hired attorney Paul McEachern who said he suspects members of the condo board are “intoxified with the power they have and want to use it.”
“It's not a logical response,” he said.

The condo association is being represented by attorney Sandy Roberts, who said the grounds surrounding all of the condos are common area, controlled by the governing board. He also contends that when Bois got permission from the developer to plant her perennials, she was told the permission was temporary and could be changed by a future governing board.

Bois said she wouldn't have spent $2,000 on perennials if she believed she'd received temporary permission.

“The developer created a problem for everyone,” Roberts said. “The practical implication is that what one person thinks is beautiful, another person thinks is horrible. Whether you like it or not is not the issue.”

If Bois is allowed to keep her flowers, Roberts said, “the guy next door will say, ‘I want to do it too.'”

“It's not about do you like these flowers or don't you,” he said. “It's a question of was it authorized and is it permanent.”

[GreenBulldog]

It's all about power. It's about being able to control people.

It has nothing to do with rules, logics, or what's right. It has to do with the satisfaction of making others submit to your will.

Now imagine people in the condo association in the white house. That's what we got.

[donnay]

You buy the condo, it's yours, but you are told what to do on your property? I cannot understand the reasoning for people to get involved in these ASSociations. You might as well just live in an apartment with a landlord, at least you're not tied down to the property with noisy neighbors who squeal on you for not following the rules. Insanity. Pffft...give me the rural life any day of the week!!

[asurfaholic]

I don't know. Im kinda siding with the condo association. Flowers are kind of like little muslims... any moment one might turn into a terrorist and go boom.

For the sake of the children, just dig those terrorists up and pay your dues. For the children..

[tod evans]

But Your Honor......he needed killin'.

[oyarde]

Screw that retarded crap , she should not pay those dicks one cent .

[Brian4Liberty]

It's all about power. It's about being able to control people.

It has nothing to do with rules, logics, or what's right. It has to do with the satisfaction of making others submit to your will.

Now imagine people in the condo association in the white house. That's what we got.

All of that, and don't forget a mini-version of corporatism. There's money to be spent, and lobbyists who want that money. You have a situation where a HOA may have many millions of dollars to spend. A contractor (or crony) may actually purchase a condo, get elected to the board, and make decisions that send money in certain directions.

It is an exact microcosm of government.

[Brian4Liberty]

You buy the condo, it's yours, but you are told what to do on your property? I cannot understand the reasoning for people to get involved in these ASSociations. You might as well just live in an apartment with a landlord, at least you're not tied down to the property with noisy neighbors who squeal on you for not following the rules. Insanity. Pffft...give me the rural life any day of the week!!

Even single-family houses now have HOAs in most areas. It seems that most people naturally desire oppressive government. So much for the viability of anarchism.

[dannno]

Even single-family houses now have HOAs in most areas. It seems that most people naturally desire oppressive government. So much for the viability of anarchism.

I blame it on women (not all women) but ones who want a nice brand new home and can't think of anything else.

It is cheap enough for their husbands to afford these McMansions, but they don't think about the loss of privacy, loss of freedom to landscape, loss of freedom to do what you want on your land (i.e. setup a basketball hoop for your kids, or God forbid grow your own food). All they see is a brand new god damn kitchen and they throw everything else out the window.

[slamhead]

I am part of an HOA. I was appalled at the first meeting how they treated another owner who was trying to get his garage door fixed. They were fining him $200 a day for something he had to go through them to fix. When I introduced myself at my first meeting they asked me when I wanted to run as a board member. I informed them at that time I was a Ron Paul supporter and all about property rights. Needless to say they did not ask me to run.

[Romulus]

First it's flowers they want to grow, then its POT. Then they're giving the kids heroin. So, NO PLANTING FLOWERS. its for the children.

[Keith and stuff]

Even single-family houses now have HOAs in most areas. It seems that most people naturally desire oppressive government. So much for the viability of anarchism.

I don't think that is true of New Hampshire. Most of the houses in NH aren't new and the people that live on town/city block x never decided to create a HOA. I've noticed some neighbor associations but they are voluntary groups with no power. There are some rural homes on shared dirt/gravel driveways. There may be some legal groups formed between the homeowners on such driveways.

There is a massive one, though. It includes most of the population of Grantham, NH.
http://eastmannh.org/

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't think that is true of New Hampshire.

Yeah, it's for new developments, and maybe it's worse on the west coast.

[dannno]

I blame it on women (not all women) but ones who want a nice brand new home and can't think of anything else.

It is cheap enough for their husbands to afford these McMansions, but they don't think about the loss of privacy, loss of freedom to landscape, loss of freedom to do what you want on your land (i.e. setup a basketball hoop for your kids, or God forbid grow your own food). All they see is a brand new god damn kitchen and they throw everything else out the window.


Both sexes are completely irrational when it comes to the following:


Women -> Brand new kitchens

Men -> Brand new women

[The One]

My friend once got arrested for paying a girl to plant tulips.

[mac_hine]

shit. I live in Portsmouth and and had no clue this was going on. I'm not surprised though. This town is infested with authoritarian leftists. This past New Years a group of us did some Ron Paul outreach at a candle light vigil during the town's annual first night celebration. This Nurse Ratched type bimbo was giving us the hairy eyeball from the moment we arrived. She tried to pin us in a certain section and actually had the nerve to ask us if we had a permit for our candles. My response was, "show me the law which requires us to have a permit." The bitch scoffed and haughtily walked off.

All in all it was a good time. I handed out a couple hundred super brochures.

[Keith and stuff]

All in all it was a good time. I handed out a couple hundred super brochures.

Oh, that's awesome. I wanted to make sure you know about this event. 2 of the organizers are Ron Paul endorsing state Reps. from Rochester.

Free Legislative Process Training in Concord on 4/2/12
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?367982-Free-Legislative-Process-Training-in-Concord-on-4-2-12
Learn about the New Hampshire Legislative Process
When: Monday, April 2nd from 1:00 - 4:00 P.M.
Where: Legislative Office Building (Behind the State House)
33 North Street, Room 210-2011 Concord, NH

Learn how to:
Navigate the Legislative Process
Help Pass the Driver Ed Bill into Law
Know what's Going on in Concord
Testify Effectively in front of Committees
Make Persuasive Arguments to Advance Your Issues
Consider Serving as a State Representative

Speakers include:
Former Rep. Don Gorman
Rep. John Burt
Rep. Laura Jones
Rep. Kyle Jones

And also make sure you know about the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. It is by far the most effective state pro-liberty volunteer non-partisan organization when it comes to swaying votes in the legislature and getting people elected in the US.

[Acala]

Um, she is planting flowers on property that does not belong to her. Any property rights she has with respect to common areas are extremely limited (like ingress and egress), will be specified in an agreement SHE SIGNED, and will not include planting flowers on what amounts to other people's property. She is in the wrong here.

[Brian4Liberty]

This town is infested with authoritarian leftists.

It is amazing how many authoritarian leftists there are. There are actually Obama supporters out there that fully support the wars and the seizures of executive power. They desire a Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/Castro style purge of all those who would "spoil" their plans.

[Brian4Liberty]

Um, she is planting flowers on property that does not belong to her. Any property rights she has with respect to common areas are extremely limited (like ingress and egress), will be specified in an agreement SHE SIGNED, and will not include planting flowers on what amounts to other people's property. She is in the wrong here.

Not necessarily. What if the majority of the members of the community don't care if she plants flowers there, and it's just one or two power hungry busy-bodies who have gotten themselves into positions of "authority" who have a vendetta against her?

[kahless]

It is amazing how many authoritarian leftists there are. There are actually Obama supporters out there that fully support the wars and the seizures of executive power. They desire a Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/Castro style purge of all those who would "spoil" their plans.

I actually started to take a close look at the Free State Project and relocating to NH but with the outrageous property taxes and what you describe it looks like there are other parts the country more ripe for such a movement.

[Acala]

Not necessarily. What if the majority of the members of the community don't care if she plants flowers there, and it's just one or two power hungry busy-bodies who have gotten themselves into positions of "authority" who have a vendetta against her?

It still is NOT her property. In a condo, you don't own the common areas. You typically don't even own the outside of your walls. At least with a HOA you OWN your yard even though you have agreed not to do certain things with it. The land where she has planted the flowers is owned by someone else. She never owned it.

It is as if I planted flowers on my neighbor's lawn and then pitch a fit because my neighbor wants me to remove them.

[dannno]

It is as if I planted flowers on my neighbor's lawn and then pitch a fit because my neighbor wants me to remove them.

No, actually it is as if you planted flowers on your neighbor's lawn after getting permission from them and then they later sued you for thousands of dollars.

[donnay]

I actually started to take a close look at the Free State Project and relocating to NH but with the outrageous property taxes and what you describe it looks like there are other parts the country more ripe for such a movement.

NH is great! You have to do your research before you move...some towns are higher in taxes than others. The thing is, when you look at it like that you will know who are like-minded people in that town just by the taxes. You have no state income tax, lower excise and no sales tax on merchandise.

Over all, NH is cheaper than most New England states to live. The first year my family moved from Maine to New Hampshire we saved $5000.00.

[AGRP]

She shouldn't have joined the HOA.

[Keith and stuff]

I actually started to take a close look at the Free State Project and relocating to NH but with the outrageous property taxes and what you describe it looks like there are other parts the country more ripe for such a movement.

That person isn't in NH and he wasn'ttalking about NH. As for Portsmouth, it is definitely a Democratic city. There is one libertarian Republican on the city council, though. The property taxes are highest in NH in Rockingham County, where Portsmouth is located. It is the most statist county in NH. It has 20 or so miles of coastline, all located in Rockingham County. Portsmouth is on the ocean.

Outside of the 13 cities in NH, the people in the towns decide their property taxes to a great deal by voting on expenses in town meetings. Some rural parts of NH have no property taxes. Some places in NH have very high property taxes, like Hanover (a college town.) If you want to live in NH and pay little property taxes, move somewhere with little or no property taxes. You could also move to a trailer, RV or rent with others. For example, you can buy a duplex for less than $200,000 and rent out half of it. That will be enough to cover your mortgage and property taxes. If you are single or just a couple without kids, you can rent a room from someone else. In all of NH you can rent a room from someone else for $300 to $400. Some people pay even less than that.

Of course, taxes overall are low in NH compared to just about any other state. I don't pay any NH income taxes. I don't pay a general NH sale tax on anything expect when I get a drink at a bar. NH has the lowest alcohol taxes in the US. It has the 2nd lowest gas tax (18 cents per gallon, I think) in the Northeast. It has the lowest tobacco taxes in New England and perhaps near the lowest in the Northeast. Traffic fines are low in NH compared to most states. NH is also called the richest state enough though there is no minimum wage for most workers. NH just uses whatever the feds say, there is no need for a state min. wage.

[Lishy]

Why does the law allow us to sue for thousands more than the actual damages cost?

[Tyrion Lannister]

Both sexes are completely irrational when it comes to the following:


Women -> Brand new kitchens

Men -> Brand new women

What's wrong with a brand new woman?

[Acala]

No, actually it is as if you planted flowers on your neighbor's lawn after getting permission from them and then they later sued you for thousands of dollars.

No, actually it is like your neighbor gave you permission to plant flowers on their property even though you both knew that they would be moving away shortly and when the new owner asked you to remove your flowers from their lawn, you, being a total douchenozzle, said no and got your assed properly sued for trespass and deserve what you get. :D

[Anti Federalist]

Why does the law allow us to sue for thousands more than the actual damages cost?

Punishment.

Punitive damages.

[Acala]

Why does the law allow us to sue for thousands more than the actual damages cost?

She agreed to the rules, including the penalties. Also, the Condo Owner's Association is forced to hire a lawyer to bring the suit and the woman must pay those fees. Because she won't stay on her own property.

[Anti Federalist]

Even single-family houses now have HOAs in most areas. It seems that most people naturally desire oppressive government. So much for the viability of anarchism.

Yes, yes they do, and it's a fact that too many in our "movement" fail to recognize or deal with with.

People, for the most part, never have wanted freedom, they want what people have wanted since the dawn of time: to be fed and entertained.

If they can also get a chance to lord over and boss their fellow citizens around, they'll jump on that opportunity as well.

Not only that, when they fall victim to these base desires, the corrupt institutions that pop up to support these desires are not likely to be changed by the people.

[Anti Federalist]

She agreed to the rules, including the penalties. Also, the Condo Owner's Association is forced to hire a lawyer to bring the suit and the woman must pay those fees. Because she won't stay on her own property.

She claims to have "permission" prior to there ever being a condo association.

Sad state of affairs where I have to hire an attorney to bat out a "pre existing conditions" waiver for a flower bed.

[dannno]

No, actually it is like your neighbor gave you permission to plant flowers on their property even though you both knew that they would be moving away shortly and when the new owner asked you to remove your flowers from their lawn, you, being a total douchenozzle, said no and got your assed properly sued for trespass and deserve what you get. :D

Well then it sounds like a problem that exists between the prior owner and the current owner... not the free landscaper the previous owner contracted out... It's merely incidental that she still lives there.

You just don't want to admit that the people that run these associates are often times fucking leeches.

[Acala]

She claims to have "permission" prior to there ever being a condo association.

Sad state of affairs where I have to hire an attorney to bat out a "pre existing conditions" waiver for a flower bed.

She claims a prior owner gave her permission. Fine. Prior owner is now gone. New owner of property wants flowers off the property. Woman with NO LEGAL RIGHT to insist her flowers remain on someone else's property stubbornly insists anyway thereby putting new owner in the position of having to hire a lawyer to make stubborn woman get her damn flowers off the new owner's property.

[Dr.3D]

I don't know. Im kinda siding with the condo association. Flowers are kind of like little muslims... any moment one might turn into a terrorist and go boom bloom.

For the sake of the children, just dig those terrorists up and pay your dues. For the children..

Fixed it for ya. :D




First it's flowers they want to grow, then its POT. Then they're giving the kids heroin. So, NO PLANTING FLOWERS. its for the children.

Yeah, those flowers are stepping stones to growing pot. LOL

[Acala]

Well then it sounds like a problem that exists between the prior owner and the current owner... not the free landscaper the previous owner contracted out... It's merely incidental that she still lives there.

You just don't want to admit that the people that run these associates are often times fucking leeches.

The world is full of leeches. But they still have property rights. And this woman is violating someone else's property rights and should have stopped when she was asked. She didn't. She insisted that she gets to keep her flowers on someone else's property. She is getting sued for it and deserves it.

[Brian4Liberty]

It still is NOT her property. In a condo, you don't own the common areas. You typically don't even own the outside of your walls. At least with a HOA you OWN your yard even though you have agreed not to do certain things with it. The land where she has planted the flowers is owned by someone else. She never owned it.

It is as if I planted flowers on my neighbor's lawn and then pitch a fit because my neighbor wants me to remove them.

It is owned by the collective community. If the collective agrees that she can plant flowers on the shared property, she can.

[oyarde]

I blame it on women (not all women) but ones who want a nice brand new home and can't think of anything else.

It is cheap enough for their husbands to afford these McMansions, but they don't think about the loss of privacy, loss of freedom to landscape, loss of freedom to do what you want on your land (i.e. setup a basketball hoop for your kids, or God forbid grow your own food). All they see is a brand new god damn kitchen and they throw everything else out the window.I am aguy , and I want a brand new kitchen too ;) , but not without a few acres ;) Greetings Danno ! , I always got it right , except the brand new kitchen...... , eh , one of these dang days ...

[oyarde]

Both sexes are completely irrational when it comes to the following:


Women -> Brand new kitchens

Men -> Brand new women Brand new women ? , NO WAY , THEN i WOULD HAVE TO START ALL OVER , teach them to filet fish , skin deer , operate a post hole digger , You really are scaring the crap out of me now ;) , I no longer care about a new kitchen ..

[BamaAla]

Why does the law allow us to sue for thousands more than the actual damages cost?

People can seek punitive damages, but in this case, they aren't seeking damages at all; they are seeking fines.


She agreed to the rules, including the penalties. Also, the Condo Owner's Association is forced to hire a lawyer to bring the suit and the woman must pay those fees. Because she won't stay on her own property.

I *probably* agree.

There aren't enough facts in the story to make a call. With the few facts we do have, it seems like the HOA is in the right. I'm envisioning this flow: her moving in on the ground floor of the development before a governing board was formed, getting permission from the builder, a board being formed upon completion, board sending cease and desist notice(s), her ignoring them, fines being levied, fines ignored, relief sought. Again, though, there simply isn't enough information in the original story.

[Acala]

It is owned by the collective community. If the collective agrees that she can plant flowers on the shared property, she can.

Technically, title to the common area is in the association (although it might be different in different states). The woman has no direct interest in the property anymore than you have in the local walmart parking lot just because you own walmart stock.

But you are correct that if the association voted to allow her to plant flowers in the common area, she could do so. Just like the shareholders of walmart could allow you to pitch a tent in the walmart parking lot. But if they don't, then you would be trespassing, just as is this woman.

[Acala]

Some folks here are falling into the trap of ignoring "the forgotten man". In this case the forgotten man is the guy who bought into this condo in part because the rules prevent people from asserting their personal tastes on the landscaping in the common areas. Not everyone likes grandma's roses or appreciates seeing sweaty grandma squatting in the dirt everyday in her garden atire and seek out places where they will not have to put up with those annoyances.

Now grandma has decided that the rules she agreed to don't apply to her. If she is allowed to get away with not following the rules she agreed to follow, then the people who paid to live in a place with those rules get screwed. And if those people who paid to live in a place with certain rules are forced to hire a lawyer to make stubborn granny obey the rules she voluntarily imposed upon herself, then SHE should pay those costs.