Will we have another chance in 2016?

[realtonygoodwin]

Do you think we will have a chance to continue to increase the liberty movement and hopefully get a liberty candidate (such as Rand) elected President in 2016?
Or do you think America will be too far gone by then?

Vote in the poll, and comment below!

[bluesc]

We have many chances in 2012 and 2014.

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

Do you think we will have a chance to continue to increase the liberty movement and hopefully get a liberty candidate (such as Rand) elected President in 2016?
Or do you think America will be too far gone by the?

If we do not win through peaceful revolution this election, violent will be almost inevitable. But, there's still that slim chance.

[LibertyEagle]

People have thought it was too late for over 50 years. It's never too late, until we are in the ground. So, yes, I think we will be electing a President in 2016. But, we shouldn't just be concentrating on the presidency. The best way has always been to take our country back from the local level on up. For that, there is no reason to wait 4 years.

[RonRules]

You have a chance in 2012. Deal with the voter fraud issue. Look at the last couple of charts I posted.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?363915-We-NEED-more-hands-on-deck.-Significant-evidence-of-Algorithmic-vote-flipping./page183
Understand their significance, ask questions, find statisticians that will confirm them for you. Report to your Secretary of State and local election Registrar of Voters.

We can still get 2012. Exposing voter fraud will get us there.

[Anti Federalist]

There will be some sort of presidential election in 2016.

If Romney is not defeated, however, Rand will have no part of it until 2028.

You will get two terms of Romney, then two terms of "the other guys", if he wins in 2012.

[tfurrh]

Ron Paul 2016 - its gonna happen

[Aratus]

or rand wins in 2016 if the debt is the looming crisis

[aclove]

There will be some sort of presidential election in 2016.

If Romney is not defeated, however, Rand will have no part of it until 2028.

You will get two terms of Romney, then two terms of "the other guys", if he wins in 2012.

This is why it's important that if Ron cannot be the nominee, it be Romney, and Romney lose. That will discredit the establishment GOP and create a chaotic vacuum within the party that will be ideally suited for us, and for Rand to assume a leadership position in the GOP.

[moderate libertarian]

We have a "chance" every day.

[Voluntary Man]

If Ron doest win, or have a MAJOR influence on the next administration, America is over.

[RickyJ]

Most here may want to hope there will still be a chance then, but there won't be. The elite will make sure of that. WW3 is coming and even if it doesn't the dollar is about to totally collapse taking the USA down with it. America will not exist in its current form in 2016. Ignoring reality won't change reality.

[realtonygoodwin]

I am glad you posted RickyJ, it was actually one of your posts that inspired this thread!

[John F Kennedy III]

Do you think we will have a chance to continue to increase the liberty movement and hopefully get a liberty candidate (such as Rand) elected President in 2016?
Or do you think America will be too far gone by then?

Vote in the poll, and comment below!

I try to be an optimist, but without Ron Paul, I'm convinced that by 2016 Amerika will be a full blown totalitarian police state that will be like Nazi Germany combined with Soviet Russia and put on steriods.

[jmdrake]

There will be some sort of presidential election in 2016.

If Romney is not defeated, however, Rand will have no part of it until 2028.

You will get two terms of Romney, then two terms of "the other guys", if he wins in 2012.

If Rand's not the VP nominee Romney can't win. I heard some talking heads on NPR today talking about Santorum as a possible nominee. Santorum on the ticket is the only thing that could possibly get me to vote for Obama. Yeah I said it. Santorum is a precursor to the lamb-like beast of Revelation. I'm not at all pleased with him saying mainline Protestants are outside of Christianity. And yeah, I've heard all of the stupid arguments from people here apologizing for that comment. But if Santorum is on the ticket I will consider that Satanic warfare against all that is just an holy and will do everything in my power to oppose him. That said, I think Ron Paul supporters just voting 3rd party or writing in Ron Paul will be enough to deny Satan-orum the vice presidency. But if it's getting too close......

[jmdrake]

Most here may want to hope there will still be a chance then, but there won't be. The elite will make sure of that. WW3 is coming and even if it doesn't the dollar is about to totally collapse taking the USA down with it. America will not exist in its current form in 2016. Ignoring reality won't change reality.

I wasn't sure we'd make it to 2012.....but somehow we did. Reality is that I can't predict the future. I can predict that things will get worse and they have. WW3? Well if we go to war with Iran that can be touched off. But globalist Obama won't do that without U.N. authorization and so far China and Russia have been blocking that. (It's a sad day when two totalitarian regimes are the ones actually protecting our freedoms because of their enlightened self interest).

[Anti Federalist]

If Rand's not the VP nominee Romney can't win. I heard some talking heads on NPR today talking about Santorum as a possible nominee. Santorum on the ticket is the only thing that could possibly get me to vote for Obama. Yeah I said it. Santorum is a precursor to the lamb-like beast of Revelation. I'm not at all pleased with him saying mainline Protestants are outside of Christianity. And yeah, I've heard all of the stupid arguments from people here apologizing for that comment. But if Santorum is on the ticket I will consider that Satanic warfare against all that is just an holy and will do everything in my power to oppose him. That said, I think Ron Paul supporters just voting 3rd party or writing in Ron Paul will be enough to deny Satan-orum the vice presidency. But if it's getting too close......

That bad eh?

I honestly missed that comment, he really said that?

I have my own personal reasons for vigorously opposing Romney.

His NH home is close enough to mine that the once the security apparatus that surrounds the Dear Leader descends, life will become untenable around this beautiful, quiet, rural piece of NH.

I can't have that shit.

[John F Kennedy III]

Most here may want to hope there will still be a chance then, but there won't be. The elite will make sure of that. WW3 is coming and even if it doesn't the dollar is about to totally collapse taking the USA down with it. America will not exist in its current form in 2016. Ignoring reality won't change reality.

Agreed. Most people have no idea just how screwed we are. You haven't seen evil until you've seen this beast. If it doesn't put the "Fear of God" in you, nothing will. No matter how scary it gets, we must continue to face it every single day until we defeat it.

[MRoCkEd]

People have thought it was too late for over 50 years. It's never too late, until we are in the ground. So, yes, I think we will be electing a President in 2016. But, we shouldn't just be concentrating on the presidency. The best way has always been to take our country back from the local level on up. For that, there is no reason to wait 4 years.

Exactly

[ZENemy]

Im sure we will make it


AS EVEN MORE ENSLAVED than before.

Drones, NDAA, HR347, once these things pass (already have) its VERY hard to go back. They are passing a new bill EVERY WEEK, Im sorry but at this rate I dont know what optimism there is to hold on to besides RP...Unless you LIKE being arrested for protesting.

[realtonygoodwin]

People have thought it was too late for over 50 years. It's never too late, until we are in the ground. So, yes, I think we will be electing a President in 2016. But, we shouldn't just be concentrating on the presidency. The best way has always been to take our country back from the local level on up. For that, there is no reason to wait 4 years.

That is the only way to win. We need to think long-term. Like 20-30 years.

[Matthew5]

Liberty will always face dark times and set backs. But the human soul will never completely succumb to total defeat, especially in this country. There's always a chance, even if the rate of totalitarianism increases in this country. I think the liberty movement has gained enough steam, however, to begin turning the tide in the next decade.

[Matthew5]

That is the only way to win. We need to think long-term. Like 20-30 years.

Yep, we can't get caught up on single presidential terms like 2012 and 2016. We've gotta face the long haul...even if these terms become minor speed bumps. :p

[John F Kennedy III]

Im sure we will make it


AS EVEN MORE ENSLAVED than before.

Drones, NDAA, HR347, once these things pass (already have) its VERY hard to go back. They are passing a new bill EVERY WEEK, Im sorry but at this rate I dont know what optimism there is to hold on to besides RP...Unless you LIKE being arrested for protesting.

Reality sucks doesn't it? Don't worry, Dear Leader ObaMao will save us all.

[ZENemy]

Yep, we can't get caught up on single presidential terms like 2012 and 2016. We've gotta face the long haul...even if these terms become minor speed bumps. :p

REALLY?

Please, don't get me wrong...if voting is doing virtually NOTHING for us now then whats it going to do for us for the long run?

We just saw Judge Nap get cancelled, Dennis K lost his seat, Everyone we manage to put up that has ANY influence gets AXED.

I guess we will change things by:

protesting....waiiiiit cant do that anymore, its a felony now.
Voting....waiiiit a second, cant do that, even if we can, MSM shoots it down faster then I can blink.
Call our Congressmen HAHAHAH I laugh!!

DHS just picked up a contract for 450 MILLION rounds of amo, TSA hitting the streets soon....

Im sure there will be a 2016, we wont be voting for anything unless they tell us (not much different from not) IN THE OPEN?




The list goes on and on, they are putting laws in place to make sure that 2016 has no more Ron Paul types.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

I always think it will end and it doesn't. Yeah we have a chance.

[AFPVet]

If Ron doest win, or have a MAJOR influence on the next administration, America is over.

Agreed.

[ZENemy]

I always think it will end and it doesn't. Yeah we have a chance.

That's because you are waiting for the NATION to end, The "nation" wont end, your freedom however is already gone.

[Matthew5]

REALLY?

Please, don't get me wrong...if voting is doing virtually NOTHING for us now then whats it going to do for us for the long run?

We just saw Judge Nap get cancelled, Dennis K lost his seat, Everyone we manage to put up that has ANY influence gets AXED.

I guess we will change things by:

protesting....waiiiiit cant do that anymore, its a felony now.
Voting....waiiiit a second, cant do that, even if we can, MSM shoots it down faster then I can blink.
Call our Congressmen HAHAHAH I laugh!!

DHS just picked up a contract for 450 MILLION rounds of amo, TSA hitting the streets soon....

Im sure there will be a 2016, we wont be voting for anything unless they tell us (not much different from not) IN THE OPEN?

The list goes on and on, they are putting laws in place to make sure that 2016 has no more Ron Paul types.

Judge Nap got canceled because not enough people watched his show (therefore it was a business decision) and Dennis K lost his seat because the people voted for another person (that's how a representative democracy works).

[phill4paul]

http://redkid.net/generator/8ball/yoursign.jpg

[xFiFtyOnE]

The SHTF before 2016. The economy doesn't have 4 more years. Now what happens after the economic melt down...I have no idea. Will America learn from it's mistakes and once again become the land of the free or will the elites crack down even harder? Who knows?

[NoOneButPaul]

So glad to see sanity prevailing by at least 5 votes...

If you think this country is 4 years away from collapse than you should just stock up on guns now and run to North Canada.

I'm in this for the long haul, it will take a decade or two but we will take back the GOP and we will win the POTUS. I'm not going to give up that fight because people think the country is 4 years from finished.

Even if I believed that it was going to happen before 2016 I wouldn't stop fighting, to just give up now when we are so close in the big picture would be foolish. We are reaching the tipping point, and no matter what people say about Paul or the movement's momentum now if you consider where it was 5 years ago and where it is now the fact is we are growing at an uncontrollable pace. We will continue to grow, and we will restore freedom to this country.

Til death I say!

[Butchie]

I think our back is broken, but looking at other civilizations it's ofcourse hard to tell, the Roman Empire limped along for about 100yrs after the big split (the eastern half anyway) but it wasn't the Rome anyone remembered, you could also have a situation very sudden like the Soviets where one day our Pres is on TV basically saying "it's all over". I personally am planning for both. I will definitely support a Rand Paul Presidency if we're still kicking in 2016, but I'm also stocking up on gold/silver, guns and ammo.

[ZENemy]

Judge Nap got canceled because not enough people watched his show (therefore it was a business decision) and Dennis K lost his seat because the people voted for another person (that's how a representative democracy works).

It doesn't matter WHY it was done, it matters that it was done.

If the reason nap got cancelled was because not enough people watched his how then the problem is exactly that. If people don't even wanna hear it, there will be no changes. The REASON people dont wanna hear it is because the MSM tells them so.

[Anti Federalist]

That is the only way to win. We need to think long-term. Like 20-30 years.

That's what people said about the Goldwater movement almost 50 years ago now.

[pcosmar]

Will we have another chance in 2016?

Don't count on it.

don't count your eggs before they are layed

[LibertyEagle]

REALLY?

Please, don't get me wrong...if voting is doing virtually NOTHING for us now then whats it going to do for us for the long run?

We just saw Judge Nap get cancelled, Dennis K lost his seat, Everyone we manage to put up that has ANY influence gets AXED.

I guess we will change things by:

protesting....waiiiiit cant do that anymore, its a felony now.
Voting....waiiiit a second, cant do that, even if we can, MSM shoots it down faster then I can blink.
Call our Congressmen HAHAHAH I laugh!!

DHS just picked up a contract for 450 MILLION rounds of amo, TSA hitting the streets soon....

Im sure there will be a 2016, we wont be voting for anything unless they tell us (not much different from not) IN THE OPEN?




The list goes on and on, they are putting laws in place to make sure that 2016 has no more Ron Paul types.

You are concentrating on the federal level and that alone. Run for county commissioner, dog catcher, something, and get elected. Help other like-minded people in their campaigns at the local level. Get entrenched in your local Republican party and get to know people; get elected to office within the party. If you don't already know them, learn Robert's Rules of Order. That way, you will be prepared.

There are all kinds of things to do. Most of the effective ones will be at your own local level.

[LibertyEagle]

That's what people said about the Goldwater movement almost 50 years ago now.

Things are much more obvious now, AF.

Whether we are able to stop the inevitable or not, the more we all take back our own local and state governments, the better off we are going to be when the crash comes.

[LibertyEagle]

That's because you are waiting for the NATION to end, The "nation" wont end, your freedom however is already gone.

It can always get worse. Watch. We can either sit around and moan about it, or do what we can until we can do it no more. Who knows? We might just win. But one thing is for sure. If we throw in the towel, we will surely lose.

Life offers no guarantees.

[TAnn]

We are all so caught up in the politics of change, we seem to keep overlooking the earth changes that are happening and will continue to happen. What part will a natural disaster have to play in the future of politics?

[TAnn]

It sounds like you are one of those who lets the MSM elect your officials for you.

[realtonygoodwin]

REALLY?

Please, don't get me wrong...if voting is doing virtually NOTHING for us now then whats it going to do for us for the long run?

We just saw Judge Nap get cancelled, Dennis K lost his seat, Everyone we manage to put up that has ANY influence gets AXED.

I guess we will change things by:

protesting....waiiiiit cant do that anymore, its a felony now.
Voting....waiiiit a second, cant do that, even if we can, MSM shoots it down faster then I can blink.
Call our Congressmen HAHAHAH I laugh!!

DHS just picked up a contract for 450 MILLION rounds of amo, TSA hitting the streets soon....

Im sure there will be a 2016, we wont be voting for anything unless they tell us (not much different from not) IN THE OPEN?




The list goes on and on, they are putting laws in place to make sure that 2016 has no more Ron Paul types.


Dennis K losing his seat is a net positive for liberty in this country.


That's what people said about the Goldwater movement almost 50 years ago now.

Yep, and that led to Reagan's presidency.

[pcosmar]

Yep, and that led to Reagan's presidency.

Yeah,, We Know.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g

:(

[Matthew5]

Dennis K losing his seat is a net positive for liberty in this country.

This...I guess I failed to see what the love affair with Dennis K was all about. Anti-war?

[RickyJ]

If Ron doest win, or have a MAJOR influence on the next administration, America is over.

It would take a conscience and a miracle for one of the three stooges to turn on the elite. I actually think Obama would turn on the elite sooner than them because basically his whole life has been screwed up pretty good all due to the elite since his childhood. His mother was a CIA asset, and I have to wonder if anyone really knows who his father is including his mother. But even if one of them did turn on the elite their defection would guarantee a swift assassination. The sad part of all this is that even if Ron Paul were to win and become the next president, they would find a way to neutralize him fast. They could drug him, poison his food, or just arrange an accident. The one thing for sure is that the people really controlling this nation are not going to let any elected official stop their plans for America and the world. Really, without a significant percentage of the masses waking up to who these people are that are really controlling the USA and Europe for the most part, and just how evil they are and how much they despise Christians, there won't be any real chance to change America. All we can do is try to educate them, if they won't listen then there is nothing more we can do but make preparations for the aftermath of the elite's plans.

[Czolgosz]

People should have lit up this government ~100 years ago for all the gnarly laws put in place. But most people don't care about freedom, even fewer will argue and protest for it, fewer than that will violently battle to free themselves.

It required physical separation, arguing, and blood 200+ years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I support peaceful means of redress, but it's just a pacifier to keep us sane and feeling like we're doing something. Afterall, you don't build power and control then just allow it to slip away, but I wouldn't guess a bunch of INTJ's can easily wrap their intellect and chill personalities around why and how people like this function.

[Butchie]

People should have lit up this government ~100 years ago for all the gnarly laws put in place. But most people don't care about freedom, even fewer will argue and protest for it, fewer than that will violently battle to free themselves.

It required physical separation, arguing, and blood 200+ years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I support peaceful means of redress, but it's just a pacifier to keep us sane and feeling like we're doing something. Afterall, you don't build power and control then just allow it to slip away, but I wouldn't guess a bunch of INTJ's can easily wrap their intellect and chill personalities around why and how people like this function.

As far as getting violent if it was just me I'd have no problem with it as it'd be my choice, my life, and I'd suffer whatever may come. However, I think we all know they wouldn't just come after me, they would come after my brothers, sister, nieces, nephew, friends, etc. I can't put their lives at risk over my choices.

[Southron]

I'm optimistic about the long run as long as the main focus is on local and state politics. I don't think winning the Presidency is the cure-all. I think that a bottom-up strategy is what we should concentrate on. Sure, keep running a candidate for President but don't expect much success yet.

[anaconda]

I think the financial coup is near completion. The next phase will be severe military crackdown and heightened propaganda. The experiment in a Constitutional Republic is over. And the government is in a good position to deflect the citizens' anger towards Wall Street and present themselves as the solution. It doesn't look good at this time. There will be only less freedom in the 2016 elections.

[LibForestPaul]

Judge Nap got canceled because not enough people watched his show (therefore it was a business decision) and Dennis K lost his seat because the people voted for another person (that's how a representative democracy works).
What is the rating of the replacement shows in his time slot?
What are the ratings of shows in general on that channel?

[KMX]

I am not going to vote. If I do, it's like saying I think it's over.


WE GOT THIS!

[bluesc]

Yeah,, We Know.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g

:(

Such a sinister MFer. As of now, his kind is winning. Globalists and neoconservatives.

"But bluesc! Tin foil hats and stuff!"

Shut up.

[raystone]

Americans, including "tea partiers", have voted, the results are tallied. They do not want liberty.

[realtonygoodwin]

Bump for more votes.

[Anti Federalist]

Yep, and that led to Reagan's presidency.

Which Ron himself called a failure.

[Anti Federalist]

Americans, including "tea partiers", have voted, the results are tallied. They do not want liberty.

That.

Sadly, many of our people do not want to admit that fact to themselves.

[John F Kennedy III]

Dennis K losing his seat is a net positive for liberty in this country.



Yep, and that led to Reagan's presidency.

I agree. +rep

[John F Kennedy III]

As far as getting violent if it was just me I'd have no problem with it as it'd be my choice, my life, and I'd suffer whatever may come. However, I think we all know they wouldn't just come after me, they would come after my brothers, sister, nieces, nephew, friends, etc. I can't put their lives at risk over my choices.

If you really worry about all them then you need to get busy on trying to stop the NWO.

[John F Kennedy III]

I see reality:

America is done for if we do not win in 2012!

Has finally caught up with sunshine and lollipops:

We can still have a chance in 2016!

[John F Kennedy III]

Such a sinister MFer. As of now, his kind is winning. Globalists and neoconservatives.

"But bluesc! Tin foil hats and stuff!"

Shut up.

But bluesc, why must you force us to see reality? We just want to keep pretending everything is fine. How dare you tell us about the NWO, the very people that control damn near every part of our lives!

See look! Now the kids are crying!

[John F Kennedy III]

Which Ron himself called a failure.

And it was. I don't know much about it myself, but from what I have read here on RPF, Reagan was much like Ron while running for President in '76 and '80, but then became an NWO puppet after getting shot.

[MRoCkEd]

People were saying America would soon be over if Ron lost back in 2008. I think we were supposed to have hyperinflation by now with $10,000 gold. Lol



There are two things that have been true throughout history in big hunks. You can find differences in ten years, but in 50 year hunks, 100 years hunks, you’ll find two things to be true. One, the world is always getting better. Two, people always think it’s getting worse.

[RickyJ]

People were saying America was over if Ron lost back in 2008. I think we were supposed to have hyperinflation by now with $10,000 gold. Lol

It's coming, it has only been temporarily delayed. I think America has been all but officially over for quite some time, even before 2008. 1988 should have been the year Ron Paul won, we needed him even then.

[Travlyr]

People were saying America was over if Ron lost back in 2008. I think we were supposed to have hyperinflation by now with $10,000 gold. Lol
Because they know what they are talking about. Predicting what is not so hard. Predicting when is more difficult.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q3SOlXxUBLk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q3SOlXxUBLk

[John F Kennedy III]

Because they know what they are talking about. Predicting what is not so hard. Predicting when is more difficult.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q3SOlXxUBLk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q3SOlXxUBLk

This.

[bluesc]

Which Ron himself called a failure.

Something should be noted though: Failure for liberty.

The big neoconservative takeover really started with the Reagan administration. Bush as VP, junior cabinet positions, high academia posts, etc. That was highly successful and stands to this day.

Reagan had good intentions. Then he was shot. Then he was a puppet, especially in his older years.

Must learn from it (at least the initial stages) and if there are any threats, hire some oathkeepers instead of the SS.

[ZENemy]

Tell me that 2016 is still looking good after reading this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55ZWzjsK_g&feature=youtu.be




Read about it here, do a google search on it.

http://usamericanfreedom.com/2012/03/17/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness-signed-031612/

And a thread on it on RPF
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?367573-March-16-2012-by-Executive-Order-National-Defense-Resources-Preparedness

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah,, We Know.

:(

That was Bush; not Reagan.

[LibertyEagle]

Tell me that 2016 is still looking good after reading this



It's certainly not a good thing, but there have been EOs for the government taking over nearly everything in this country, since nearly the dawn of time. Seriously. Go look them up. They were quite short ones. One for each industry. Disgusting.

[LibertyEagle]

That.

Sadly, many of our people do not want to admit that fact to themselves.

The alternative is that YOU ARE WRONG. ;) :p

I don't think a whole lot of people realize how bad things really are and I'm not just talking about the economy. For example, I know a couple of people who voted for Romney, because they thought he would be the best to turnaround the economy. They realize we are in trouble with our economy. But, I don't think they realize all the other stuff going on and more importantly why it is going on. I don't for one minute believe if they understood that, that they would choose it. Not for one second.

[realtonygoodwin]

wow, 50/50 split so far.

[Chainspell]

I wouldn't say america is done for. But our rights to protest is already getting eroded really really fast. Next year it's gonna get a lot worse. Everything is already in place for it to happen.

[GreenBulldog]

Our chance will come after government defaults.

It takes a lot of money to run a welfare state, a warfare state, and a police state. I once thought socialism will rise after government defaults. Now, after seeing the young people enthusiasm for Ron, I believe the country will go back to its principles that it was founded on.

[GuerrillaXXI]

Freedom in America is already dying its last gasps, and political reasons are only part of it. Of course I strongly support Ron Paul, but I'm not sure even his election as president could turn things around now.

New technology is making government more powerful than we could have imagined even 20 years ago. Electronic mass surveillance, biometrics, drones, frisk-from-a-distance scanners, new advanced weaponry, body armor -- the government's means of enforcing its will is increasing exponentially. Even if a government doesn't take all your freedoms in the legal sense, you are still unfree if the government has the ability to take your freedom.

Countermeasures to these mechanisms of control are still available to those who search for them. But at the rate we're going, I'll expect the government to have something close to godlike omnipotence over the population within 10-20 years. Once that happens, any resistance to tyranny will be suicidal. But I might be okay with that anyway, since life isn't worth living in an unfree world. Death is inevitable, but utter subjugation to the will of other men is not.

Ironically, as GreenBulldog indicated, the government's current policies just might be what saves our freedom. Most Americans today don't care enough about freedom to take it back. But if the US goes broke and collapses, there may be a chance for the minority of freedom-lovers to establish a free country (or at least a free territory in what's now the US) from the ruins. So I would be greatly in favor of America's current reckless spending if not for the fact that a lot of people in other countries are suffering because of our wars of aggression.

[GreenBulldog]

Ironically, as GreenBulldog indicated, the government's current policies just might be what saves our freedom. Most Americans today don't care enough about freedom to take it back. But if the US goes broke and collapses, there may be a chance for the minority of freedom-lovers to establish a free country (or at least a free territory in what's now the US) from the ruins. So I would be greatly in favor of America's current reckless spending if not for the fact that a lot of people in other countries are suffering because of our wars of aggression.

Here's the thing: Freedom lovers aren't in the minority. At least I don't think so. When I see pictures of Ron's rally, it's hard for me to think that we're in the minority. I think we're 10-15% of the population. More importantly, the 10-15% are YOUNG.

In a sense, if not Ron, I want the worst president because it'll speed up the time when the government will default. The longer it can keep afloat, the longer the government can take our wealth and liberty, and prolong the pain.

Ron, as president, can change things. He can use LEGITIMATE presidential power to stop wars and veto bills that'll stop corporate handouts, welfare, etc. When things turn around for the better, the people will have to admit that the libertarian way, liberty, and the constitutional way are the best way.

...therefore, no one but Paul!

[realtonygoodwin]

10-15% is a minority...

[GreenBulldog]

10-15% is a minority...

Only if you think it terms of us and the rest.

Of the 80-85%, how are they broken down? Which ones are neocons? Liberals? "Don't give a shit" people? Others?

[Legend1104]

10-15% is a minority...

That is true, but we are showing double numbers is most states from 2008, and we already have like 1 million supporters that have voted for Dr. Paul in all the states. Imagine what will happen it a few more years. We are spreading at a rate that can't be stopped. It is only a matter of time before no amount of media lies and distortions can contain us.

[Lothario]

So here's the thing. The one thing we all agree on is that freedom is our right. We support Ron Paul because if we are successful, then we will have elected someone to office who will give us permission to be free. But...if you need anyone's permission to be free, then you're not really free. And yet despite this glaring philosophical contradiction, I still preach Ron Paul to anyone who will listen. However, if Ron Paul doesn't win this election, I would encourage everyone to give up trying to elect people who will give you permission to be free, and instead, just start being free. If every Ron Paul supporter just stopped paying the IRS, even though we're a minority, the entire system could potentially collapse. Of course the government and all it's guns would go down in a blaze of glory with bullets flying everywhere...but it would go down, and you would be free from that day forward, without having to wait another 4 years to seek permission.

Ron Paul is a step towards freedom. He is a means to an end, but he is not the end himself. With or without Ron Paul, there is no 2016. Give up the idea of 2016, and start focusing on real freedom. As long as there is an Office to fill, we are not a free people.

[noneedtoaggress]

So here's the thing. The one thing we all agree on is that freedom is our right. We support Ron Paul because if we are successful, then we will have elected someone to office who will give us permission to be free. But...if you need anyone's permission to be free, then you're not really free. And yet despite this glaring philosophical contradiction, I still preach Ron Paul to anyone who will listen. However, if Ron Paul doesn't win this election, I would encourage everyone to give up trying to elect people who will give you permission to be free, and instead, just start being free. If every Ron Paul supporter just stopped paying the IRS, even though we're a minority, the entire system could potentially collapse. Of course the government and all it's guns would go down in a blaze of glory with bullets flying everywhere...but it would go down, and you would be free from that day forward, without having to wait another 4 years to seek permission.

Ron Paul is a step towards freedom. He is a means to an end, but he is not the end himself. With or without Ron Paul, there is no 2016. Give up the idea of 2016, and start focusing on real freedom. As long as there is an Office to fill, we are not a free people.

+rep

[The_Ruffneck]

this is the last chance without violence
if this fails then it's armed militia civil war by 2015

[pcosmar]

this is the last chance without violence
if this fails then it's armed militia civil war by 2015

I don't think so. I might wish it were possible, but I don't think that will happen.

I do expect a general breakdown, with authoritarian forces holding some areas (cities), and armed citizens holding pockets of liberty in others.
Generally,, a mess.

[Marenco]

I am not sure if 2016 is our last chance, but it's certainly getting ugly fast.