Rick Santorum Can't Explain How Attacking Iran Is Part Of Just War Theory

[playpianoking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVdtR_iN3_c

At a recent Rick Santorum campaign stop, an attendee asks how he can be so adamantly pro-life while at the same time war-mongering to preemptively attack Iran, a country that hasn't started a war in over 200 years.

Santorum falls silent when he realizes that attacking a country that has never attacked us in no way constitutes principles of a Just War.

[teacherone]

lulz... Ron's funny.

"Does attacking Iran without being attacked follow the 'Just War Theory?'"

"Not if you read English!"

[ZENemy]

...and yet this guy is kicking our ASS all over the country.

If it is not a result of voter fraud then I'm moving out of this country.

[Maximus]

...and yet this guy is kicking our ASS all over the country.

If it is not a result of voter fraud then I'm moving out of this country.

Not everything is fraud, there's a lot of stupid people in America too.

[PolicyReader]

I think it is a result of propaganda more than anything. Remember the majority of voters (sadly :( ) still think that the corporate media report facts rather than bias.
And for those who look no further they believe Santourm isn't a fake and Paul is a 'kook'.
They are factually wrong, but the silver lining is that it doesn't mean all of them have awful motives.
(They are frequently the same populace bloc who don't realize things like the recent NDAA and the "Patriot" act are deeply un-American)

[coffeewithchess]

...and yet this guy is kicking our ASS all over the country.

If it is not a result of voter fraud then I'm moving out of this country.

I've been wondering where to go...the Virgin Islands actually seem like they may be paradise, considering they delivered us our first win.

[carterm]

what does ron say at the end?

[Enforcer]

The new Just War theory is simple:

If we want to kick Iran's backside, it's just war. It ain't no big deal. What did you think Santorum understood it to mean?

[mickey mouse joy division]

Yep. It's really just the fact that most of your peers are idiots and listen to Sean Hannity.

[PolicyReader]

The new Just War theory is simple:

If we want to kick Iran's backside, it's just war. It ain't no big deal. What did you think Santorum understood it to mean?
lol, well played sir ;)

Here's the "old" Just War theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Criteria_of_Just_War_theory) if anyone is interested

[carterm]

ask romney this too.

[coffeewithchess]

Okay, one issue I have with the videos...is that is seems they were basically following him around at one stop, repeatedly asking him questions that we already know the answers for.

This type of "reporting" doesn't help win over new voters that were there, sooo, what would be a better way to do it/ask the questions?

[Okie RP fan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dyyd4rcuZc&feature=player_embedded

[ZENemy]

Not everything is fraud, there's a lot of stupid people in America too.

I didn't say everything was a fraud. It doesn't matter, the media covering up the fact that he wants to bad condoms IS FRAUD in my mind.

[robert9712000]

Sadly to say alot of it is stupid people.

I was walking into the election hall last week and ran into my uncle.He told me to vote for Newt and i said no way im voting for Ron Paul.

He then replied "vote for him if you wanna give Obama 4 more years".

I replied "it wouldn't matter if Obama won anyways,Mitt,Santorum and Newt are the same as Obama,both will bankrupt us and both will continue these endless wars.

To which he replied "Ron would allow Iran to get a Nuke,that would be very dangerous if they got one."

I replied " I don't care if they get a nuke,there not dumb enough to use one.They know if they ever did we'd wipe them off the face of the map in one week"

To which he said" Talk to you later."

[alucard13mmfmj]

Sadly to say alot of it is stupid people.

I was walking into the election hall last week and ran into my uncle.He told me to vote for Newt and i said no way im voting for Ron Paul.

He then replied "vote for him if you wanna give Obama 4 more years".

I replied "it wouldn't matter if Obama won anyways,Mitt,Santorum and Newt are the same as Obama,both will bankrupt us and both will continue these endless wars.

To which he replied "Ron would allow Iran to get a Nuke,that would be very dangerous if they got one."

I replied " I don't care if they get a nuke,there not dumb enough to use one.They know if they ever did we'd wipe them off the face of the map in one week"

To which he said" Talk to you later."

Change is coming. The problem is that it is slow. Change is slow and the deterioration of our problems is increasing at a faster rate. Your uncle will eventually get converted, but by the time he does... it'll be too late.

Also... how the hell can Iran fire a nuke that goes past other arab countries (including israel), goes past europe, goes over the atlantic ocean, and somehow hit the USA????...

[PolicyReader]

I didn't say everything was a fraud. It doesn't matter, the media covering up the fact that he wants to bad condoms IS FRAUD in my mind.
*nods* people may want to debate the definition but at this point there's no question "if" there's an equatable playing field with all parties to the process abiding by the rules. There is neither one of those things.

fraud/frôd/
Noun:

1. Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
2. A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

I'd say there's easy demonstrations of the send definition, and honestly if you focus on the wrongful aspect of the first rather than the criminal aspect that's pretty apparent as well.

I suppose what I'm saying is there are plenty of ways for fraud (by definition) to occur without even bringing up ballot counting (which you didn't but that seems to be the thing that most readily leaps to mind for many people)

[VBRonPaulFan]

Change is coming. The problem is that it is slow. Change is slow and the deterioration of our problems is increasing at a faster rate. Your uncle will eventually get converted, but by the time he does... it'll be too late.

Also... how the hell can Iran fire a nuke that goes past other arab countries (including israel), goes past europe, goes over the atlantic ocean, and somehow hit the USA????...

nobody is worried about Iran firing off a nuke tipped ICBM, they're concerned about them developing nukes and giving them to factions who might smuggle them in and use them...

[The Free Hornet]

I think it is a result of propaganda more than anything. Remember the majority of voters (sadly :( ) still think that the corporate media report facts rather than bias.

Weeks before the Iowa Caucus, "informed" (newspaper readers, newsradio listening types - but otherwise stupid) people - some Republicans - would look at my Ron Paul shirt and ask, "oh, is he still running?". They seriously didn't know. We know Ron was a front-runner for Iowa since Ames but the media blacked him out. People who listen to newsradio all effing day, didn't hear many mentions of Ron Paul. I'm talking about the news broadcasts that are interlaced with traffic, weather, and sports "news". So Romney, Cain, Perry, Gingrich gets a gazillion mentions and Ron Paul gets zilch. Of course their excuse is they only cover the "top" stories and it matters not that they decide what the top is.

They can't completely control the results otherwise Ron Paul would get closer to zero mentions and even fewer votes. But I agree with the propaganda or fraud conclusions. If you sell me a car that doesn't do what it should, that can be fraud. The same might be said for news that isn't.

However little trust I have in people, I really hope the internet is a game changer. The less people are controlled by news outlets and traditional sources of propaganda (like the Evangelicals who endorsed Frothy), the better.

[PolicyReader]

Weeks before the Iowa Caucus, "informed" (newspaper readers, newsradio listening types - but otherwise stupid) people - some Republicans - would look at my Ron Paul shirt and ask, "oh, is he still running?". They seriously didn't know. We know Ron was a front-runner for Iowa since Ames but the media blacked him out. People who listen to newsradio all effing day, didn't hear many mentions of Ron Paul. I'm talking about the news broadcasts that are interlaced with traffic, weather, and sports "news". So Romney, Cain, Perry, Gingrich gets a gazillion mentions and Ron Paul gets zilch. Of course their excuse is they only cover the "top" stories and it matters not that they decide what the top is.

They can't completely control the results otherwise Ron Paul would get closer to zero mentions and even fewer votes. But I agree with the propaganda or fraud conclusions. If you sell me a car that doesn't do what it should, that can be fraud. The same might be said for news that isn't.

However little trust I have in people, I really hope the internet is a game changer. The less people are controlled by news outlets and traditional sources of propaganda (like the Evangelicals who endorsed Frothy), the better.

When doing Phone From Home I've had people who 'kept track of politics' (watched TV, read paper, listened to radio) that didn't know when their voting took place or that the nomination was an open contest in their state. Beyond that they thought Paul would slag Medicare first day in office and had no border security policy at all. Also had no idea about what delegates were (which is less surprising that's more politically 'dense' material to digest).

Anyway point being that your experience sounds like it mirrors mine tho through different means... oh end of my story, guy and his wife decided to go and vote for Paul by the time I was done talking to them and all I did was lay out the facts. The black out burns us but it's also a reason for hope, these people aren't voting for what Romney/Newt/Santorum actually stand for over what Paul actually stands for. They are voting for the Lie of the establishment candidate they've chosen over the Lie told to discredit Paul (when he's talked about at all). Obviously some would still not vote for Paul but there's a lot more possible (at least soft) support than what the polls have shown us, and that at least is good news :)

[Captain Shays]

...and yet this guy is kicking our ASS all over the country.

If it is not a result of voter fraud then I'm moving out of this country.

I am not telling you people anything that you don't know, but I like to say it anyway sometimes even if out of frustration.
What we are dealing with is YEARS of indoctrination by the educational system, the media, politicians and each other. People have been so successfully hoodwinked that they re-inforce it with one another. Few of us know our real history because we have been told that we're a democracy. That we're the police of the world. That "isolationism" didn't work prior to WWII and now we've learned our lessons and can't allow it to happen again. Some of you are too young to remember the work up prior to the Gulf War when we were being told that Saddam is the "Hitler of the desert" and needs to be stopped. There were references EVERY DAY about the original Hitler to bolster their argument for an undeclared, unnecessary war against a country that never attacked or threatened us.

I am sad to say, that my Christian brethern have been subject to this indoctrination in their own churches as many of them equate patriotism and flag waving, war mingering with being a good Christian.

Much of this goes back to that Gulf War. It was unjust. It was unnecessary. It was no doubt informed by our dependence on oil.(the establishment never did and never will admit that) As a result of the sanctions 500,000 Iraqi's were killed in addition to those killed in the war itself. Subsequently militarists set up bases in Saudi Arabia which enraged the MUslim world and caused bin Laden to initiate attacks on the World Trade Center in 1993, the Kohbar Towers, our embassey in Nigeria, the USS Cole and then the attacks of 911.

The establisment CANNOT EVER admit to these failures whether they call themselves Democrat or Republican. The whole affair was based on lies that can NEVER get out to the general public. That war personifies the failed idealogy that robs us of freeedom, costs us financial and human treasure while making us hated all over the world.
This is why despite what bin Ladens declaration of jihad said. Despite what Michael Scheuer says. Despite what Ron Paul says. Despite what ANYONE who is honest, rational and not loyal to any party KNOWS and what the 911 Commission Report said CANNOT GET OUT.

Rick Santorum followers have bought hook line and sinker into that collective, fabricated lie. They have swallowed the whole collection of lies and live on those lies. They thrive on those lies and the cognative dissonence that prevents them from seeing the truth.

Folks, this is why we need to educate our way into every supporter. The way that works well, is to print out a collection of quotes from the founding fathers on foreign policy and hand them out to every one that you know and come in contact with. If they are professing Christians include a copy fo the Christian Just War Principles. Also include the list of wars that Democrats were the party in power because tat list blows people away when they see it whether they are Democrats who think Republicans are the war party. Whether they are Republicans who think that Republicans were always "strong on defense" and that policing the worodl and engaging in unnecessary undeclared wars is inherently a Republican thing.
That list points out the REAL war party and shows clearly that policing the world is inherently Democrat style, not the old style Republicans or the founding fathers.
Republicans will have a really difficult time admitting that they are following the foreign policy of Woodrow Wilson who was one fo the first to reject that which the founding fathers laid out for us and which the old style conservatives adhered to also. Christians might be easily won over by presenting to them the just war principles which the founders adhered to.

Trust me.........these lists are real eye openers even if the person you show it to initially rejects it and resists it. Later on when they have had time to digest it their eyes slowly begin to open.

What happens is that the part of them that is a REAL AMERICAN starts to come out. The sentiment about minding our own business pre-dates apple pie and baseball as being an identifier of who we are. THAT is why Ron Paul wins on non interventionism.

Where he loses it, especially with those we now call "traditional conservatives" (noecons dressed in religious robes) is what he WILL DO to protect us, keep us safe and strong.

We need to get a letter to the campaign IMMEDIATELY telling them to have Ron Paul come out with his national defence initiative. His strategy for maintaining a strong national defense.

If he does that and has a good plan he WILL win. THAT is what the fence sitter neocons have been waiting for. They have heard enough of what he won't do. Sure. He won't police the world. He won't attack Iran or any other country without a declaration.

We need him to say that he will fast track a missile defense system. That our navy will be more useful patrolling our waters than Tiawans' waters. That securing our border has a greater value than securing Iraq's border or South Korea's border. That he will use our nuclear arsenal if he has to. That we need a civil defense network like Switzerland's. Stuff like that or his own version. I just came up with my own but it's things to DO not just things not to do.

Finally, we just can't overlook the media black out of Ron Paul while the constant mention of the other candidates. The establishment KNOWS this discourages voters. It's why we hear people say "I like him but he doesn't stand a chance to win". The media is treating Ron Paul like a third party candidate who they ignore and don't allow into debates since Ross Perot. They ignored Nader, Buchanan, Harry Browne, Bednarik, Baldwin. Now they are ignoring Paul.

[coffeewithchess]

nobody is worried about Iran firing off a nuke tipped ICBM, they're concerned about them developing nukes and giving them to factions who might smuggle them in and use them...

Which is highly unlikely, and only a scenario fit for a tv series...like, oh, I don't know 24?

If they were really that concerned with it, making sure the old Soviet Union's are secured would be step #1.

Also, there are sensors that can be (and are) installed at ports/borders, etc., that detect nuclear materials.

[Captain Shays]

Weeks before the Iowa Caucus, "informed" (newspaper readers, newsradio listening types - but otherwise stupid) people - some Republicans - would look at my Ron Paul shirt and ask, "oh, is he still running?". They seriously didn't know. We know Ron was a front-runner for Iowa since Ames but the media blacked him out. People who listen to newsradio all effing day, didn't hear many mentions of Ron Paul. I'm talking about the news broadcasts that are interlaced with traffic, weather, and sports "news". So Romney, Cain, Perry, Gingrich gets a gazillion mentions and Ron Paul gets zilch. Of course their excuse is they only cover the "top" stories and it matters not that they decide what the top is.

They can't completely control the results otherwise Ron Paul would get closer to zero mentions and even fewer votes. But I agree with the propaganda or fraud conclusions. If you sell me a car that doesn't do what it should, that can be fraud. The same might be said for news that isn't.

However little trust I have in people, I really hope the internet is a game changer. The less people are controlled by news outlets and traditional sources of propaganda (like the Evangelicals who endorsed Frothy), the better.

THAT. (reps)

[Captain Shays]

One other thing. Ron Paul's answer in one of the debates gave the impression to a lot of people that he would be OK with Iran getting a nuke. After that debate, he had to correct his rhetoric and was asked numerous times about Iran getting a nuke and constantly had to convince people thta he didn't want to get a nuke.

I had my boss and his son convinced to support Ron Paul until that debate and after that they looked at me like I was craaazy and came right out and said "No way would I vote for him He "wants' Iran to get a nuke". I'm sure many of you also ran into people who said "he wants" Iran to have a nuke.

THAT answer cost us a lot of support whether we care to admit it or not and whether we know what the truth is or not.

But no doubt the biggest thing costing us votes and support is the media blacking him out

[coffeewithchess]

THAT answer cost us a lot of support whether we care to admit it or not and whether we know what the truth is or not.

But no doubt the biggest thing costing us votes and support is the media blacking him out

Well, that debate must have been BEFORE Iowa, as I think this one was also...but make sure they see this video...at the last portion anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qFqoj771GQ

[seraphson]

We need a single compilation of all these awesome Santo clips.

[matt0611]

Not everything is fraud, there's a lot of stupid people in America too.

This 100000000x.

There is probably some fraud. But Santorum has huge support that can't be explained away with voter fraud.

[mosquitobite]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory

Depends on if you think "defense of Israel" is the "just cause". Of course, Santorum can't come out and say that - it would mean we're putting Israel first.

But the dumbed down religious right are perfectly content with that "cause"

[Tyler_Durden]

Props to OP Playpianoking! (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?366861-Props-to-RPF-Member-Playpianoking!!!&p=4276876#post4276876)

[acptulsa]

The new Just War theory is simple:

If we want to kick Iran's backside, it's just war. It ain't no big deal. What did you think Santorum understood it to mean?

The Just Another War Theory. *sigh*


Okay, one issue I have with the videos...is that is seems they were basically following him around at one stop, repeatedly asking him questions that we already know the answers for.

This type of "reporting" doesn't help win over new voters that were there, sooo, what would be a better way to do it/ask the questions?

If you know any sentient and moral humans, you get to show them this video so they know who they're voting for. That's how this all helps the cause.

[Xchange]

Here in St. Louis we have a DJ named Dana Loesch. She is the Editor-in-Chief of Big Journalism.
She is on 97.1


She will avoid the subject of Christian Just War Theory @ any costs.


It happened today...She was spinning her wheels.



Caller John

March 13, 2012 The Dana Show 3
@ 23:40
http://www.971talk.com/dana/podcast.aspx

[J_White]

i approve this message.
there are irregularities for sure and they are bending the rules to benefit, mostly Romney, but the biggest reason is that people are averse to thinking deeply, they just want the eat their popcorn and drink their coke while watching "who will be ur next most entertaining warmongering debt increasing liberty diminishing President" !!

Not everything is fraud, there's a lot of stupid people in America too.