Student Loan Forgiveness Act Of 2012

[lib3rtarian]

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr4170ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr4170ih.pdf

Yup, like the name says. Forgive all student loans. Put it on the taxpayers. :(

[alucard13mmfmj]

Holy Crap. I should've went to graduate school earlier lol.

[eduardo89]

Quick! Take out as many loans as possible before this passes!

[badger4RP]

we'll be bailed out by the taxpayers now or hyperinflation later. o ya... called it.

[pen_thief]

I'm buried in debt and my credit is pure comedy gold, but I still don't think it's right. Then again, the cost of my education wasn't right, nearly $1000 per class - yet I was pressured to go. I guess the only good that would come of it at all is to allow people to actually move out of their parents' homes and stimulate the economy a bit rather than work three jobs and give it all right back to the debtmasters.

[pen_thief]

I'm buried in debt and my credit is pure comedy gold, but I still don't think it's right. Then again, the cost of my education wasn't right, nearly $1000 per class - yet I was pressured to go. I guess the only good that would come of it at all is to allow people to actually move out of their parents' homes and stimulate the economy a bit rather than work three jobs and give it all right back to the debtmasters.

Edit: I read through it and it's so freaking confusing and wordy I doubt it'll make a damn bit of difference. Screw it.

[bluesc]

rather than work three jobs and give it all right back to the debtmasters.

Is it really that bad? In the UK we go into pretty much the same amount of debt as you guy do, yet our repayments aren't crippling.

We pay 9% of anything we earn over £21,000. So if I get a grad job paying £30,000, I only pay £810 a year and all debt is forgiven after 30. Also it is paid straight from the payroll.

Seems like if you're going to guarantee student loans, you may as well do it in a way that guarantees repayment (to an extent) rather than screwing up lives and dumping it all on the taxpayer anyway.

[eduardo89]

Is it really that bad? In the UK we go into pretty much the same amount of debt as you guy do, yet our repayments aren't crippling.

We pay 9% of anything we earn over £21,000. So if I get a grad job paying £30,000, I only pay £810 a year and all debt is forgiven after 30. Also it is paid straight from the payroll.

Seems like if you're going to guarantee student loans, you may as well do it in a way that guarantees repayment (to an extent) rather than screwing up lives and dumping it all on the taxpayer anyway.

Yeah but your tuition fees were capped at £1000 until 2006, then capped at £3000 per year. Even with the huge increase to a £9000 yearly cap which will come into force in September, most programs won't charge that.

[TheTexan]

Two wrongs... make an extremely wrong

[pacelli]

I'm in the middle of reading the text of the Bill linked and I'm currently on page 10/18 via online PDF where it states (lines 16-21):



(i) the balance of principle and fees due on the borrower's eligible loans as of the time of such forgiveness, not to exceed $45,520; and (ii) the amount of interest that has accrued on the balance described in clause

So they're going to forgive ~45k to eligible borrowers. Don't be fooled. This is a re-election ploy to buy the fucking youth vote.

[bluesc]

Yeah but your tuition fees were capped at £1000 until 2006, then capped at £3000 per year. Even with the huge increase to a £9000 yearly cap which will come into force in September, it's still less than most US universities, especially because most programs won't be charging the cap.

Well an integrated masters would put me at $56,000 (£9000x4, since almost every university is charging the cap). That doesn't even account for accommodation and living costs. I always hear about the magic $100,000 of debt from American graduates. It will only take me a sweet, short 4 years to reach that too.

[eduardo89]

Well an integrated masters would put me at $56,000 (£9000x4, since almost every university is charging the cap). That doesn't even account for accommodation and living costs. I always hear about the magic $100,000 of debt from American graduates. It will only take me a sweet, short 4 years to reach that too.

Yeah but you can walk away with a your undergrad and masters in 4 years.

Accommodation is what was horrible in London. You pay over £1000/month to live in a double room in student housing. It was ridiculous, I was paying £2500/month to rent a 2 bedroom apartment with a friend and it wasn't even in that great an area.

[narrowphoenix]

Obama wants the youth vote from Ron Paul, same as thing when they want the Hispanic vote they say "immigration reform", just another scam for free handouts to get a vote, this BS has been going on forever......

[Seraphim]

What is needed is massive debt write downs...not transference of onus.

Hyperinflation, indeed.

[bluesc]

Yeah but you can walk away with a your undergrad and masters in 4 years.

Actually 5 (Scotland). Luckily (for now) Scottish universities only charge Rest of UK rates, so I get a free year, but still have to pay for accommodation and living costs for that year.


Accommodation is what was horrible in London. You pay over £1000/month to live in a double room in student housing. It was ridiculous, I was paying £2500/month to rent a 2 bedroom apartment with a friend and it wasn't even in that great an area.

My single halls room is over £500 a month, which is on par with the halls in London, yet I get a lower loan than London-based students. Feels bad man.

[eduardo89]

Actually 5 (Scotland). Luckily (for now) Scottish universities only charge Rest of UK rates, so I get a free year, but still have to pay for accommodation and living costs for that year.

Oh right, you said you're going to Aberdeen right?


My single halls room is over £500 a month, which is on par with the halls in London, yet I get a lower loan than London-based students. Feels bad man.

£500/month? That's not bad. My university charged £220/week for accommodation. UCL charges £240/week or so for single rooms with ensuite bathroom.

I remember I was paying per month what my best friend was paying per semester! He was at University of Surrey, I guess Guildford is cheap :p

[TheTexan]

I've got a brilliant idea. Let's fix a problem we caused with legislation... with more legislation!!! It's genius!!

[QueenB4Liberty]

Ok do they not realize the youth can like a bill but still not vote them back in? That is possible, no? How long is it? Am I eligible if I graduated from undergrad in 2008?

[QueenB4Liberty]

Oh no. I get it. So if you take out a loan after this goes into effect, after you pay it off for 10 years, anything up to $45,520 goes away? Is that right? What bullshit.

[ZanZibar]

Makes me want to vote for Obama!



:p

[heavenlyboy34]

OMG, this bill is such a comedy of errors. ETA: Can I haz back all the money I've already paid on my loans?

[TheTexan]

OMG, this bill is such a comedy of errors. ETA: Can I haz back all the money I've already paid on my loans?

Can I have back the money I didn't steal from you because I didn't take loans?

[heavenlyboy34]

Can I have back the money I didn't steal from you because I didn't take loans?
Excellent question! I eagerly await answers to both our questions. (btw, some of my loans were private, so I didn't steal for the bulk of it. Would've taken a different path if I'd known then what I know now)

[TheTexan]

I hope they realize that all funds are fungible, and by subsidizing our college educations they're actually subsidizing smoking pot

[QueenB4Liberty]

I hope they realize that all funds are fungible, and by subsidizing our college educations they're actually subsidizing smoking pot

And abortion.

[TCE]

As has been stated before, in a purely free market system, this bill would be preposterous, but we're not even close to it. Americans should be allowed to declare bankruptcy on their student loans just like any other form of credit, yet, by law, they cannot. State universities raise their tuitions in lieu of raising taxes to fund their governments and then ensure loans are provided to students in order to shore up their budgets.

[Nastynate]

This pisses me off. The only reason I didn't go to college was because I didn't want debt, I knew better. Through all of my high school career I had a part time job, where I ended up saving 10k dollars. I spent that mostly on a small community college degree and lived off of it for a few years. But I never went into debt, and to think that I did the right thing and I'm worse off for it.

[TheTexan]

This pisses me off. The only reason I didn't go to college was because I didn't want debt, I knew better. Through all of my high school career I had a part time job, where I ended up saving 10k dollars. I spent that mostly on a small community college degree and lived off of it for a few years. But I never went into debt, and to think that I did the right thing and I'm worse off for it.

I'd like to say that we live in a debt based economy and those that are thriving in this economy by going farther and farther into debt will suffer in the inevitable collapse, but they won't. You and I will be paying for it.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Would this bill include private student loans?

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Pass it please!!! :D

[onlyrp]

Quick! Take out as many loans as possible before this passes!

what can you buy with it? housing? sex? food? a computer? 4 years of not having to work? Sounds good.

[FrancisMarion]

This is not going to pass. Its just playing politics. Reason for my opinion. The last lines of the bill:

SEC. 7. OFFSET.
11 Funds appropriated or otherwise made available for
12 a fiscal year to carry out this Act and the amendments
13 made by this Act shall be made available from the funds
14 available for Overseas Contingency Operations

It will never pass. And then, "You all care more about war than our own youth and their mountainous debt"! It will work on the minds. It also appears our education system isn't working.

[seraphson]

Excellent. Let's see. I just payed off my $20,000 for the last two years of my BS and I spent out $9000 at a trade school (electrical).
So.
When do I get my refund?

[onlyrp]

Excellent. Let's see. I just payed off my $20,000 for the last two years of my BS and I spent out $9000 at a trade school (electrical).
So.
When do I get my refund?

paid off? You're SOL, sucker! This is only for people who didn't make the effort to pay.

[lib3rtarian]

This is not going to pass. Its just playing politics. Reason for my opinion. The last lines of the bill:

SEC. 7. OFFSET.
11 Funds appropriated or otherwise made available for
12 a fiscal year to carry out this Act and the amendments
13 made by this Act shall be made available from the funds
14 available for Overseas Contingency Operations

It will never pass. And then, "You all care more about war than our own youth and their mountainous debt"! It will work on the minds. It also appears our education system isn't working.

The Dems win with this anyway. If it does pass, then of course they win, but if it doesn't pass, they will paint the GOP as anti-student, and siphon away some youth vote. Like someone mentioned earlier, definitely a plan to bite into Paul's youth cadre.

[seraphson]

paid off? You're SOL, sucker! This is only for people who didn't make the effort to pay.

Oh poo!

I love this little chat with Tom Sowell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVLKlMayNoQ); sums up this whole thing quite well.

[matt0611]

So I can I get ~$45k worth of loans I paid back over the last 6 years back?

[specsaregood]

I still say that if you get your govt backed student loan bailed out, your degree should seized and not able to claim it on your resume.

[2young2vote]

I still say that if you get your govt backed student loan bailed out, your degree should seized and not able to claim it on your resume.

I have been thinking of paying off my $3750 student loan. I have a enough cash to do it and pay off another year of school. Honestly, I'm not sure why I got it other than my parents said I should.

[2young2vote]

I still say that if you get your govt backed student loan bailed out, your degree should seized and not able to claim it on your resume.

I have been thinking of paying off my $3750 student loan. I have a enough cash to do it and pay off another year of school. Honestly, I'm not sure why I got it other than my parents said I should.

[frodus24]

I work at a University in the state of Virginia as a financial aid administrator. Many of the students that max out their loan eligibility are buying items listed outside of what is considered to be educational expenses.

A co-worker is $57,000.00 in debt(over the course of 3 years), but had no expense in regards to tuition because she could go for free. However, she took out the maximum in loans and bought a vehicle, went on nice vacations every year and blew the money on other non-educational items. A co-worker mentioned to me that she is refusing to pay back her tax-payer backed loans because she can't afford to. IF I hear her mention this to me, I will report her to the supervisor.

This is the shit that pisses me off.

[dannno]

I hope they realize that all funds are fungible, and by subsidizing our college educations they're actually subsidizing smoking pot

Well if anything should be subsidized.....

It is, afterall, the polar opposite of subsidizing war

[Johnny Appleseed]

I'm for everyone not paying their school loans car loans mortgages everyone just stop... who will it hurt? The banks? We can just start new ones.

[JK/SEA]

Why don't they just send everyone with student loans a letter stating:


CONGRATLATIONS!

Your student loan is now $ 0.00...

have a nice day!

-----The taxpayer.

[HOLLYWOOD]

This is not going to pass. Its just playing politics. Reason for my opinion. The last lines of the bill:

SEC. 7. OFFSET.
11 Funds appropriated or otherwise made available for
12 a fiscal year to carry out this Act and the amendments
13 made by this Act shall be made available from the funds
14 available for Overseas Contingency Operations

It will never pass. And then, "You all care more about war than our own youth and their mountainous debt"! It will work on the minds. It also appears our education system isn't working.FYI... to know the game of government
Obama Scraps 'Global War on Terror' for 'Overseas Contingency Operation'

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/25/obama-scraps-global-war-terror-overseas-contingency-operation/#ixzz1p7cbmsDF

[osan]

As has been stated before, in a purely free market system, this bill would be preposterous, but we're not even close to it. Americans should be allowed to declare bankruptcy on their student loans just like any other form of credit, yet, by law, they cannot. State universities raise their tuitions in lieu of raising taxes to fund their governments and then ensure loans are provided to students in order to shore up their budgets.

Well, I'm underwater to the tune of $90K for my MBA and cannot get a fucking job ANYWHERE inclusing McDonalds (seriously, they complained bitterly to me about not being able to find reliable people, which I consider myself to be, and promptly turned me away).

If I could discharge that debt, I'd declare bankruptcy in an instant. I would consider all students as sorts of victims of a rotten and hopelessly corrupted and rigged system designed to give them few perceived alternatives to being sucked in and bound by falsely contrived financial obligations.

It was interesting to note that when I got my loans the lender, for some odd reason, took pains to point out to me that the only way my cosigners would not be held accountable to the debt was if I died. My deferments are up next month and I don't know whether they will extend them further. Therefore, if in a couple of months I suddenly stop posting here, you will not have to wonder why. I cannot have my wife and mother saddled with this. I will not.

I allowed myself to be caught in the trap out of some sense of desperation. My bad and I may end up paying a very hefty price for that mistake. I've never had any debt prior to this. One year a salesman blanched sheet white when I whipped out $20K in hard folding cash for an automobile purchase. He literally did not know what to do. They called the OWNER over and even he was perplexed awhile. I offered to go elsewhere and that kind of got them in gear. They acted as if they'd never seen that much money in one place in their lives. I was amused and annoyed all at once. But because of this habit I have never had credit. People who pay with cash are rated as poor risks. Huh... whoda thunk personal responsibility was a bad thing?

Anyhow, all I can tell you young sprouts out there is if you are not planning on a hard profession such as engineering, medicine, or lawyering, I strongly recommend you NOT go to college, but rather get professional training. It is far less costly, thereby placing you at far lower risk in the event you have a tough time finding work. $100K in debt is like carrying the Titanic around on your shoulders - or at least it is for me because this is not my way of living. My plan had been to pay it off in 6 months or less after graduation. It never occurred to me that I'd be out this long. I inadvertently fucked myself in the worst way. Don't do what I did. Take the better road and remain debt-free or at least minimize it. If you MUST get a non-professional degree I would suggest doing all of it online or at least as much as possible. Test out of as many classes as you are able for credit. That can save you boat loads of cash. The college game is now a bona fide racket having little to do with education as it once may have. Just look at Drexel University - it is a for-profit institution and it is run that way. The late president was instrumental in revolutionizing the university and he did a brilliant job, but the costs are sky-high as they are at most colleges and universities. When I attended UC Davis Engineering I paid $637 PER YEAR for in-state tuition. It is now perhaps 20x that. It is a trap. Do not fall for it. If you are a decent person you do not want to find your young self on the corner of the bed contemplating a .45 as the alternative to seeing your parents saddled with crushing debt. DON'T DO IT. I tell you this from the heart. There are other ways, better ways. Do not be afraid.

[Yieu]

I still say that if you get your govt backed student loan bailed out, your degree should seized and not able to claim it on your resume.

Makes sense. I didn't make sacrifices in my life to live within my means so that they could get a free ride at an expensive university.

[onlyrp]

I'm for everyone not paying their school loans car loans mortgages everyone just stop... who will it hurt? The banks? We can just start new ones.

No, it won't hurt the banks that much. Banks will take away your house, your car, it'll be at a loss, and it'll put lots of cheap houses and cars on the market. That's assuming sellers are not in denial and realize they should drop the prices because it falls even steeper. If losing a car or house you paid into isn't hurting you, go for it.

[PaulConventionWV]

Well an integrated masters would put me at $56,000 (£9000x4, since almost every university is charging the cap). That doesn't even account for accommodation and living costs. I always hear about the magic $100,000 of debt from American graduates. It will only take me a sweet, short 4 years to reach that too.

Some people here are in closer to $200k worth of debt. I, thankfully, don't have any debt excep about $1500 and another $1500 to the IRS because, apparently, room and board counts as income these days. WTF kind of screwed up society do we live in where government grants for college education count as freaking income? It would be closer to $12000 if I didn't file as independent.

[PaulConventionWV]

This pisses me off. The only reason I didn't go to college was because I didn't want debt, I knew better. Through all of my high school career I had a part time job, where I ended up saving 10k dollars. I spent that mostly on a small community college degree and lived off of it for a few years. But I never went into debt, and to think that I did the right thing and I'm worse off for it.

Things will look up for you eventually, provided you are able to get a steady job and stay out of debt. People who have to take out a bunch of their salary to pay all these ridiculous debts are the ones who can't seem to move up in life.

[nbhadja]

I have a compromise: all the corporations that received bailouts in the past 100 years must pay off the student loan debt, must pay off America's massive debt, and if they cannot afford if then we still use their money to pay off as much debt as possible and the rest go to jail.

[PaulConventionWV]

Well, I'm underwater to the tune of $90K for my MBA and cannot get a fucking job ANYWHERE inclusing McDonalds (seriously, they complained bitterly to me about not being able to find reliable people, which I consider myself to be, and promptly turned me away).

If I could discharge that debt, I'd declare bankruptcy in an instant. I would consider all students as sorts of victims of a rotten and hopelessly corrupted and rigged system designed to give them few perceived alternatives to being sucked in and bound by falsely contrived financial obligations.

It was interesting to note that when I got my loans the lender, for some odd reason, took pains to point out to me that the only way my cosigners would not be held accountable to the debt was if I died. My deferments are up next month and I don't know whether they will extend them further. Therefore, if in a couple of months I suddenly stop posting here, you will not have to wonder why. I cannot have my wife and mother saddled with this. I will not.

I allowed myself to be caught in the trap out of some sense of desperation. My bad and I may end up paying a very hefty price for that mistake. I've never had any debt prior to this. One year a salesman blanched sheet white when I whipped out $20K in hard folding cash for an automobile purchase. He literally did not know what to do. They called the OWNER over and even he was perplexed awhile. I offered to go elsewhere and that kind of got them in gear. They acted as if they'd never seen that much money in one place in their lives. I was amused and annoyed all at once. But because of this habit I have never had credit. People who pay with cash are rated as poor risks. Huh... whoda thunk personal responsibility was a bad thing?

Anyhow, all I can tell you young sprouts out there is if you are not planning on a hard profession such as engineering, medicine, or lawyering, I strongly recommend you NOT go to college, but rather get professional training. It is far less costly, thereby placing you at far lower risk in the event you have a tough time finding work. $100K in debt is like carrying the Titanic around on your shoulders - or at least it is for me because this is not my way of living. My plan had been to pay it off in 6 months or less after graduation. It never occurred to me that I'd be out this long. I inadvertently fucked myself in the worst way. Don't do what I did. Take the better road and remain debt-free or at least minimize it. If you MUST get a non-professional degree I would suggest doing all of it online or at least as much as possible. Test out of as many classes as you are able for credit. That can save you boat loads of cash. The college game is now a bona fide racket having little to do with education as it once may have. Just look at Drexel University - it is a for-profit institution and it is run that way. The late president was instrumental in revolutionizing the university and he did a brilliant job, but the costs are sky-high as they are at most colleges and universities. When I attended UC Davis Engineering I paid $637 PER YEAR for in-state tuition. It is now perhaps 20x that. It is a trap. Do not fall for it. If you are a decent person you do not want to find your young self on the corner of the bed contemplating a .45 as the alternative to seeing your parents saddled with crushing debt. DON'T DO IT. I tell you this from the heart. There are other ways, better ways. Do not be afraid.

It is for people like you that I sometimes wish things like this would pass. Don't worry, man. It will get better. If worst comes to worst, move out of the country and go on a fucking adventure. I hear they're looking for English teachers in China and they pay the equivalent of $55k per year for people who have a degree... in anything, and $45k a year for just native english speakers. They really do this and China pays for your housing and travel to and from the US.

[Gumba of Liberty]

It is for people like you that I sometimes wish things like this would pass. Don't worry, man. It will get better. If worst comes to worst, move out of the country and go on a fucking adventure. I hear they're looking for English teachers in China and they pay the equivalent of $55k per year for people who have a degree... in anything, and $45k a year for just native english speakers. They really do this and China pays for your housing and travel to and from the US.

and saddle your family and love ones with your debt? I'm sorry but I understand this mans pain and my loans aren't even forgiven if I die. I take full responsibility for my debts and work a second job to pay them and maintain my lifestyle but if I were 17 again I would take a long hard look at whether I wanted to go to college. I nor my parents knew that student loans were exempt from bankruptcy protections. I love my job and have a good one at that but jobs are not permanent things and many of my dreams, many of the risks that I would have taken to start a business or move to a new place are now irrelevant. The amount of debt I have keeps me up at night because I'm terrified of becoming unemployed. I will tell you this, if something isn't done about bankruptcy protection for students loans your going to see suicide, homicide, robbery and domestic terrorism rates shoot through the roof.

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

Take it out of the gov't's salary

[ShaneEnochs]

If this passes, I'm dropping out of college.

[Endgame]

It is for people like you that I sometimes wish things like this would pass. Don't worry, man. It will get better. If worst comes to worst, move out of the country and go on a fucking adventure. I hear they're looking for English teachers in China and they pay the equivalent of $55k per year for people who have a degree... in anything, and $45k a year for just native english speakers. They really do this and China pays for your housing and travel to and from the US.

My story is equally fucked. Scholarships all through undergrad, hard science major busting his ass every semester, working campus jobs, living at home most of the time to save money, graduating summa with 10k in debt, excellent credit ratings and credit cards payed off habitually every month since age 18. Two semesters of the wrong master's program in a backwater southern state (relatively new, full of bugs, left due to the incompetence of it all and racism that I can't prove), which was to lead to an extremely well-paying and highly technical profession, now 60k in the hole and working retail on a subsistence budget for a little over twice what I made working retail in high school with a bunch of other guys that have bachelor's degrees. Collusion between government, banks and the decadent priesthood of academia has perpetrated the greatest fraud against my generation that any has ever had to bear.

Six months after the crash, I at least have a roof over my head that is peaceful, almost ideally located, and cheap. Food in my stomach, clean clothes. A computer to type this on. A gun. Things seem to be improving for me, but I realize how fragile what little I have now is.

People my age are mostly fucking retards doped up on psych meds and have no inclination what the source of their misery is. I volunteered intensely for RP in my state this time around. I of course say in person that he's going to win and become a great reformer and save us all and blah blah.

I would benefit from hyperinflation or total economic/social collapse. The truth is, I don't really give a damn what happens to this country at this point. I've got nothing to lose but the life of a modern peasant. Reform will happen, after some awful shit that could last decades that I don't plan to stick around for.

My only aspiration at the moment is to be able to develop some kind of skill I can take overseas, but that will take several years. Things seem to be degenerating too fast. Gas over $4 a gallon, no jobs, war with Iran looming, government very very obviously preparing for some kind of totalitarian crackdown on dissidents like ourselves. I don't see this shit here ending well but I'm not sure I'll be able to make it off this sinking ship in time.

[PaulConventionWV]

My story is equally fucked. Scholarships all through undergrad, hard science major busting his ass every semester, working campus jobs, living at home most of the time to save money, graduating summa with 10k in debt, excellent credit ratings and credit cards payed off habitually every month since age 18. Two semesters of the wrong master's program in a backwater southern state (relatively new, full of bugs, left due to the incompetence of it all and racism that I can't prove), which was to lead to an extremely well-paying and highly technical profession, now 60k in the hole and working retail on a subsistence budget for a little over twice what I made working retail in high school with a bunch of other guys that have bachelor's degrees. Collusion between government, banks and the decadent priesthood of academia has perpetrated the greatest fraud against my generation that any has ever had to bear.

Six months after the crash, I at least have a roof over my head that is peaceful, almost ideally located, and cheap. Food in my stomach, clean clothes. A computer to type this on. A gun. Things seem to be improving for me, but I realize how fragile what little I have now is.

People my age are mostly fucking retards doped up on psych meds and have no inclination what the source of their misery is. I volunteered intensely for RP in my state this time around. I of course say in person that he's going to win and become a great reformer and save us all and blah blah.

I would benefit from hyperinflation or total economic/social collapse. The truth is, I don't really give a damn what happens to this country at this point. I've got nothing to lose but the life of a modern peasant. Reform will happen, after some awful shit that could last decades that I don't plan to stick around for.

My only aspiration at the moment is to be able to develop some kind of skill I can take overseas, but that will take several years. Things seem to be degenerating too fast. Gas over $4 a gallon, no jobs, war with Iran looming, government very very obviously preparing for some kind of totalitarian crackdown on dissidents like ourselves. I don't see this shit here ending well but I'm not sure I'll be able to make it off this sinking ship in time.

Debt is truly the killer of dreams. You're not as bad off as many like you who faced the same challenges. Be grateful for what you have and make the best of it.

[Aratus]

tis the next bubble?