Let's Come Up With Some Alternative Energy Solutions! (that are politically feasible)

[Massachusetts]

I was looking for a thread to discuss alternative energy, and didn't really find a lot on the site. I thought it would be interesting to discuss the types of alternative energies out there, maybe some news about it and some resources that we can share with each other.

I have a lot of interest in solar, wind, tidal wave, ethonol, geotheral. Anybody have any input who is either passionate about the issue or interested in it?

If we can get off oil, we can do a lot of good for ourselves as individuals!

[unknown]

"Politically feasible"?

The government should get out of the business of promoting energy. Theyre always wrong and just cave to the highest bidder.

The free market should decide. The government should just get out of the way.

[Chester Copperpot]

Yeah theres lots of ideas out there.. even things other than what youve mentioned.

[KCIndy]

If we want some real choices in viable alternative energy sources, we need to get the government out of the way first. Genuine solutions are being hamstrung through impenetrable and incomprehensible regulations, mandated environmental studies, and burdensome business taxes.

It starts with liberty.

[MikeStanart]

Nuclear.


Nuclear.



Nuclear.


Get the government out of the Damned way.

[oyarde]

Bio fuels have potential , if nobody uses things in the food chain.

[Carson]

Saw this one one Fark to charge your something or other. (Link goes to Fark comment section. For the story click the "(Some Guy)" (http://www.tecca.com/news/2012/03/09/iphone-charger-mask/) in the upper left hand corner.):

A picture is worth a thousand snarks. Just click the link and try not to laugh too loud (http://www.fark.com/comments/6988081/A-picture-is-worth-a-thousand-snarks-Just-click-link-try-not-to-laugh-too-loud)

[AdelaideGUy]

Thorium Based Nuclear

http://i.imgur.com/mGzGJ.jpg

[pcosmar]

Get a Horse.

http://www.cybersalt.org/images/stories/cleanlaugh/cars/carbackfire.jpg

[andrew1229649]

Use the electricity from solar and wind to make hydrogen through electrolysis of water.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Restore the existing hydro dams that were mothballed for the ill-advised switch to "central generation".
While all existing dams have the potential for some generation, only 1% are producing any electricity yet account for 30% of electricity produced.
Get the government out of the way and we could be off coal by year's end.

[Peace Piper]

Although we in the US don't hear about it very often, other countries are building some spectacular solar power plants...

Of the top 50 Solar PV plants in the world, US is #9! (Germany has 4 in the top 10--how far we have fallen)
http://www.sunenergysite.eu/en/top50pv.php

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4936/olmedilla.jpg
Coordinates: 39°37′43″N 02°04′37″W

Spain: The Olmedilla Photovoltaic Park is a large photovoltaic power plant in Olmedilla de Alarcón, Spain. When completed in July 2008, it was the world's largest photovoltaic power plant. The plant uses more than 270,000 solar photovoltaic panels to generate 60 megawatts (peak). It produces enough electricity to power more than 40,000 homes. Construction of the plant cost €384 million (US$530 million).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmedilla_Photovoltaic_Park

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5606/finsterpgermany.jpg
Coordinates: 51°34′07″N 13°44′15″E

Germany: Not exactly known for sunny days--The Finsterwalde Solar Park is as of November 2010 the world’s largest photovoltaic plant with 80.7 MWp. The project is located in Finsterwalde, Germany and is equipped with Q-Cells modules and LDK solar wafers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finsterwalde_Solar_Park

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/7942/sarnia.jpg
Coordinates: 42°56′16″N 82°20′30″W

Canada: Sarnia Photovoltaic Power Plant near Sarnia, Ontario in Canada, is as of September 2010 the world's largest photovoltaic plant with an installed capacity of 80 MW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarnia_Photovoltaic_Power_Plant

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5614/waldpolenzsolarpark.jpg
Coordinates: 51°19′N 12°39′E

Germany again: Waldpolenz Solar Park, which was the world’s largest thin-film photovoltaic (PV) power system at that time, was built by German developer and operator Juwi at a former military air base to the east of Leipzig in Germany. The power plant is a 40 MW solar power system using state-of-the-art thin film technology,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldpolenz_Solar_Park

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7619/puertollano.jpg
Coordinates: 38°40′30″N 04°09′05″W

Spain: The Puertollano Photovoltaic Park is the fourth largest photovoltaic power station in the world, with a nominal capacity of 47.6 MW. The facility is located in Puertollano, Spain

10 or 12 of these 80 MW plants equal one average Dirty Nuke Plant that takes 10 years before a shovel hits the ground and costs big bucks for many years after it's shut down--

"What is the average output MW of a nuclear power plant?"

"As of 2007, worldwide there were 439 operational nuclear reactors with total capacity of 372,002
MW; making the average output 846 MW. However, the average new reactor can be expected to be larger."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_output_MW_of_a_nuclear_power_p lant


http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3755/solarcarshadesm1.jpg

Photovoltaic SUDI shade is an autonomous and mobile station in France that replenishes energy for electric vehicles using solar energy.

Although it's a different technology, here's a solution to storage and getting energy at night:

"In 1995 Solar One was converted into Solar Two,.. Solar Two used molten salt, a combination of 60% sodium nitrate and 40% potassium nitrate, as an energy storage medium instead of oil or water as with Solar One. This helped in energy storage during brief interruptions in sunlight due to clouds. The molten salt also allowed the energy to be stored in large tanks for future use such as night time - Solar Two had sufficient capacity to continue running for up to three hours after the sun had set..."

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5919/solar2j.jpg

"This technology has been successfully demonstrated and is ready for commercialization. From 1994 to 1999, the Solar Two project demonstrated the ability of solar molten salt technology to provide long-term, cost effective thermal energy storage for electricity generation."- Boeing

Here's what we are going to get from Obama:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/373/japannuke.jpg

"...Obama's budget for 2011 is filled with peculiarities. There are a few primary points of interest when it comes to energy...perhaps most surprisingly, over $54 billion for nuclear power. That's up almost $20 billion from the year before. The move expands from $36 billion to $54.5 billion the amount of loan guarantees the federal government is willing to award nuclear power projects. But why? Why expand nuclear loan guarantees--which weren't even capitalized on last year--when the budget is already, as everyone and their mother knows, strapped for cash?.."
http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/why-theres-545-billion-for-nuclear-power-in-obamas-budget.html

One day every major media outlet in the US (except pbs) simply stopped talking about Fukushima. Why?

"...Obama’s two top White House aides, meanwhile, had been deeply involved with what is now the utility operating more nuclear power plants than any other in the U.S., Exelon. Rahm Emanuel, his chief of staff, was as an investment banker central to the $8.2 billion corporate merger in 1999 that produced Exelon. David Axelrod, senior advisor and chief political strategist, was an Exelon PR consultant. Candidate Obama received sizeable contributions from Exelon executives including John Rowe, its president and chief executive officer who, in 2007, also became chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear industry’s main trade group..."
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/03/31-1

.

[Black Flag]

Thorium Based Nuclear

http://i.imgur.com/mGzGJ.jpg

This is the future, beyond any doubt.

[AdelaideGUy]

Dirty Nuke Plant


Oh the Irony

[fisharmor]

As usual, I'll show up and tell you all the unpleasant things you don't want to hear.

1) Get rid of zoning laws.
People do NOT by nature want to live 30+ miles from their workplaces. They do NOT want to spend their lives in tiny metal coffins. They WILL trade the thousand square feet they're never, ever going to use in their pressboard estate for the convenience of being able to walk.
People don't live where they work because it's legally impossible.
Eliminate the commute and eliminate a significant percentage of that fossil fuel burning.

2) Part 2 of the legal impossibility of living where you work: Get rid of urban punishment on businesses.
Businesses do NOT move outside of cities because they are run by tuxedo-wearing monacled magnates who enjoy watching Bambi being run out of his new hideout while lighting cigars from burning 100 dollar bills.
Businesses move out of cities because their bottom line forces them to.
They don't want to go. They have a steady labor pool, ideally access to rail, utilities ready to go, and maybe even the possibility of mass transit.
Think about everything they're sacrificing to move to Bumblefuck, Nebraska and you'll get an idea of how badly they're getting screwed inside urban areas.
Eliminate the punishments - the taxes, the regulations, the state union mandates - and they'll come back.
Note that I'm not saying "reduce", I'm saying "eliminate".

3) Eliminate state-run public transit, and eliminate restrictions on public transit.
The state never ran public transit at a profit. The state has, however, repeatedly punished public transit (see point #2) to the point where it has folded, at which point the state swooped in to "save the day" and keep the zombie transit system "operating".
At which point they start losing money (not because it was unprofitable to begin with, but because the state can't run anything at a profit). And inevitably they get the brilliant idea to save money by reducing services, usually by stopping service at certain locations.
So the geniuses at the fascist transit company can't make money with expanded service, and then figure - not sure how they get to this point - that intentionally failing to meet customer need will make them profitable.
If you drive around Philadelphia, you're going to see lots of neighborhoods with unused trolley track going through them. Nothing magically changed in the 60's that made rail less desirable to the end user. What changed is that the state made it unprofitable.

4) Just for grins, let's throw this in: eliminate building laws. Homes go up in a month these days, and if you know anything at all about construction, you're about as impressed with construction techniques as I am - which is not at all.
The state has in most places dictated what the official MINIMUM building standards are - which means that 99% of the time, this is what is done.
Before building standards, homes were built to last multiple lifetimes. Oh there were crap homes too, but the crap homes of 100 years ago were still built to better standards than the high-end homes of today.
Just look at your average garage-mahal. 2000 unnecessary square feet inside of a toothpick structure clad with vinyl, with a brick face and a whirlpool tub to fool you into thinking you got something other than a Hollywood set.
Then look at your average 1950's suburban area - like Alexandria, VA. 20 miles closer to everything, the houses are half as big or smaller (and therefore more energy efficient), they're all made of brick, they're going to be around in 200 years, they're not going to blow over in a stiff wind (and indeed can probably survive a serious fire), and they sell for 4-5 times as much as the new pressboard homes.
They were built without building codes (or codes that are much more lenient than those of today). If you get rid of the codes, the market determines how houses will be built. And the market demands better quality, more energy efficiency, and longevity. All three of which save energy.
When the state defines a minimum, the minimum then becomes the target. Nobody stops to ask questions about how it's built if the state has rubber-stamped it.
And there's also the fact that green building techniques can really only be carried out in the absolute boondocks. Build an Earthship in a suburb, and you're going to get a mandate to tear it down. Leave it standing, and I hope you like getting raped in prison.


Now for the soapbox:
OP, you're new so I doubt you've heard all this before, but look, the bottom line is that if you accept the idea of liberty you must eventually face the fact that nobody is going to have final say of what energy we're using.
Also, if you look into the history of energy use in this country you're going to find the state mandating and punishing at every single turn. If you want someone to blame for the condition we're in right now, stop looking at OPEC, stop looking at oil companies, and start looking at the people who have been non-stop fucking with the markets for the last 100+ years: the state.

I hope I've shown you that there are multiple layers of state intervention here... certainly nobody stops to think "I wonder what effect zoning law has on energy consumption". Yet once you think about it, there's no getting around that.