Freedom in One State: The Free State Project [Archive]

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Telomerase

03-11-2012, 07:18 PM

In the last legislative session, New Hampshire cut its state budget by more than 12%, and stopped the out-of-control borrowing of the previous legislature. Over the last few years, the state has reduced bureaucratic controls on everything from beer brewing to switchblades (NH in fact has no knife laws whatsoever, thanks to state rep Jenn Coffey; the entire body of 1800s-era anti-Scotsman dirk laws has been tossed). This session, bills for everything from school tax credits to marijuana decriminalization have been introduced.

These pro-liberty political winds blew into the 2012 presidential campaign, giving Ron Paul a second-place finish in the nation’s first primary. If the Free State Project had reached its modest goal of 20,000 movers, Ron Paul would have won the first primary by a landslide and had a real shot at the nomination.
Unfortunately, like Abraham at Sodom and Gomorrah (modern-day name: “ManchVegas”), we didn’t reach our quota of righteous citizens… so instead of 20,000 activists, we have a dozen overworked state reps, a few school board members and selectmen, and a few hundred “irregulars” who show up for the Revolution’s battles when we can.
Government unions and pro-corporate-welfare politicians blame the pro-liberty storm on “Ron Paul radicals from the Free State Project”. They’re right… but what they don’t mention is how few activists it took to roll back government. 1,000 libertarians have moved to New Hampshire so far, but only a few are regular activists. Unlike pro-government forces, we all work for a living.

There are a dozen state reps and one state senator who are Free State Project movers. They have worked incredibly hard to help the pro-liberty legislators who were already here (New Hampshire was chosen because it arguably had the most pro-liberty culture of any state). This little group has terrified the government unions and the pro-corporate-welfare legislators alike.

The NHLA

The New Hampshire Liberty Alliance (nhliberty.org, or see their FB page) is the driving force behind legislative accomplishments in NH. It provides the 400+ citizen legislators (NH state reps and senators are only paid $100) with information on upcoming bills and publishes a newsletter that is distributed directly to the legislature. This newsletter, the Gold Standard, is a unique resource that gives NH government more transparency than any other state.

The NHLA also rates legislators based on their votes, using the pro- or anti- liberty bill ratings. This gives voters a way to track their representatives. Finally, the NHLA has an active PAC. The PAC is strictly nonpartisan, donating to candidates according to their fiscal conservatism and support for personal freedoms rather than party affiliation. (Yes, for two terms there was actually a pro-liberty Democrat in New Hampshire; it can happen). Of course the NHLA ratings are just as useful for “progressives” as for fiscal conservatives… for people who believe that North Korea is the ideal, they can simply vote for legislators with an “F” rating.

The Future of the Free State Project

The Free State Project has not officially even begun. The original idea from Jason Sorens was that AFTER we got 20,000 activists to sign up, then the move to the chosen state would begin.
The results of our tiny band of early movers show that the full-scale Free State Project would work if it were really tried. Libertarians and ancaps around the country should consider joining us and actually winning elections and repealing laws, rather than fighting outnumbered and unheard, or worse yet just yelling at your TVs.
With 20,000 activists, the state-level barriers to liberty would be blown away. Public “education” is the single biggest barrier to freedom in the world, and it’s controlled at the state and town level. The Drug War would be hard to implement if every state and local official opposed it. Finally, the Federal government is printing its currency into oblivion. The state governments may be a lot more important in the near future, especially in states that manage to stay solvent.

And of course, state politicians turn into Federal politicians. The next crop of NH congressmen and senators could come from the ranks of our Ron Paul-endorsing state legislators.

A state with a healthy economy that privatized education and eliminated Prohibition would be an unanswerable argument to Progressives: “Well, New Hampshire doesn’t have program “X”, yet they’re getting along fine”. (Any HONEST Progressive would want a “control group” state, and support us… let me know if anyone finds one).

That’s the benefit to the country and the world. The benefit to YOU if you move here is that your business or your job will be located in a free-enterprise-friendly area. And you’ll live among people who speak your language… and don’t expect you to give up your beliefs.
So… Just Do It!

New Hampshire is truly beautiful, if you like the outdoors. The kayaking, hunting, fishing, hiking, skiing etc. is as good as you could want. If on the other hand you don’t like bears and moose in your yard, Manchester is a fine place to live as well. Manchester airport has Southwest Airlines and short entry lines, you can get to most places from Manchester as fast as from anywhere. And the Internet looks the same in New Hampshire as anywhere else… so why not live with lower taxes and a falling level of government?

Come visit New Hampshire and try it out. Drop in on Murphy’s Taproom in Manchester. The Live Free or Die rally is lots of fun. PorcFest is “Woodstock for Libertarians” (and it is in the White Mountains, if you get policy seminar overdose you can just go hiking). If you come by the Dartmouth area, let me know and we can hike up Mount Cardigan or Ascutney.

If you have such a secure job that you just can’t leave (?), then you can still move to the Free State virtually. Contact the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance and volunteer for bill review (it helps to have a degree from Miskatonic U to do bill review, but it’s not required). Listen to Free Talk Live, the nationally syndicated libertarian call-in show out of Keene NH.

Donate to the FSP itself, or to the NHLA PAC. Or fund a pro-liberty legislator like Jenn Coffey, Seth Cohn, or Mark Warden, or one of the other ‘A’ rated reps from the NHLA ratings. You’ll be helping create a Free State where you can work or retire…. And an example of freedom for the whole country.

-Bill Walker... visit my FB page https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Bill-Walker/222478167836386

Keith and stuff

03-11-2012, 08:51 PM

VinnyG

03-11-2012, 09:55 PM

The problem is, the state pretty much already chosen is New Hampshire. And people simply are not going to want to move to New Hampshire.

IT is not exactly easy to pick up and move to a new state these days either. Expect a lot of New Hampshire residences on food stamps if suddenly 20,000 people moved there with no jobs accompanying them. Unemployment would skyrocket.

jbuttell

03-11-2012, 10:19 PM

I'd seriously consider New Hampshire, but I work in the film (visual effects) industry and just have no idea what kind of work I'd be able to find.

mczerone

03-11-2012, 10:25 PM

The problem is, the state pretty much already chosen is New Hampshire. And people simply are not going to want to move to New Hampshire.

And not everybody would want to move to the desert, the sun belt, big sky country, or the mid west either. NH is a great option, IMO.

IT is not exactly easy to pick up and move to a new state these days either.

Studies show that poorer peoples migrate more fluidly than richer. And of you're out of a job, why not start looking in/near NH in addition to your local area?

Expect a lot of New Hampshire residences on food stamps if suddenly 20,000 people moved there with no jobs accompanying them. Unemployment would skyrocket.

What? With more people comes more demand for consumer goods, more demand for food and goods and services. And many of the movers are bringing skills and capital with them. I'd think the more movers, the LESS welfare demands there will be on the NH govt.

If you don't like it, start brainstorming better options. Naysaying isn't helping.

mczerone

03-11-2012, 10:27 PM

I'd seriously consider New Hampshire, but I work in the film (visual effects) industry and just have no idea what kind of work I'd be able to find.

I know that there are visual effects artists already there.

You could try to post to the FSP boards to see if anyone could hook you up with some contacts.

You could also see about remote-working options. You don't always have to be on-site for that type of work.

helmuth_hubener

03-11-2012, 10:44 PM

I want to see that budget go down again. Biennial, right? Next time, make it go down by 20%.

Or 30%!

50%!

Oh, make it 100!

Okie RP fan

03-11-2012, 10:54 PM

Are we trying to make New Hampshire our little "Utopia?"

Kudos the N.H. and all they have done. I would never move there, personally. But, may that state and it's residents be a beacon of freedom for the future.

PolicyReader

03-12-2012, 12:19 AM

This is a great project, I hope it does well and that others like it get organized in some of our low pop states. This method could work in a few states in the Union :)

The Free Hornet

03-12-2012, 12:41 AM

The problem is, the state pretty much already chosen is New Hampshire. And people simply are not going to want to move to New Hampshire.

Then get off your ass and start a free state project in a completely different region. Maybe every 5th or 10th state should become a liberty magnet. Don't bitch about their success because they made a choice.

IT is not exactly easy to pick up and move to a new state these days either. Expect a lot of New Hampshire residences on food stamps if suddenly 20,000 people moved there with no jobs accompanying them. Unemployment would skyrocket.

This isn't the food-stamp demographic. A job is what we call work. Work is being productive with your hands, your mind, whatever you have. Jobs are not some liberal or government creation. They don't come from big business or government spending. If you don't get it, then walk into the woods, grab some wood nobody cares are about and start carving or building something (don't let TBTB see you take their wood).

There is no reason a large nationwide group of people should be unemployed. Dependency on governement destroys independence. The string pullers want these people dependent on them. That they are unemployed is unfortunate but typical of planned economies.

TheTexan

03-12-2012, 12:48 AM

The Free State Project has not officially even begun. The original idea from Jason Sorens was that AFTER we got 20,000 activists to sign up, then the move to the chosen state would begin.
The results of our tiny band of early movers show that the full-scale Free State Project would work if it were really tried. Libertarians and ancaps around the country should consider joining us and actually winning elections and repealing laws, rather than fighting outnumbered and unheard, or worse yet just yelling at your TVs.

This.

Also, I hate NH too. Too cold, but cold weather is a very small price to pay for real, legitimate, freedom.

Keith and stuff

03-12-2012, 12:58 AM

Too cold, but cold weather is a very small price to pay for real, legitimate, freedom.

It was in the 60s most of last week. It will be 73 today, 70 on Tuesday, 68 on Wednesday, 61 on Thursday, 61 on Friday, 70 on Saturday, 64 on Sunday and 63 on Sunday. This is winter in New Hampshire. It is colder than most of the country, but not substantially. For example, if a person can handle the weather in Denver, Chicago or New York City, that person should have no trouble handling the weather in Salem, Nashua or Seabrook, NH.
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=salem%2C+nh#forecast

There are very free parts of New Hampshire, and they tend to be near the mountains and in colder areas. For example, Grafton, NH. Grafton is known for being one of the freest places in the world modern. It will be 63 today and 64 on Tuesday in Grafton.
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=grafton%2C+nh

TheTexan

03-12-2012, 01:06 AM

For example, if a person can handle the weather in Denver, Chicago or New York City

Yep. Too much snow. :)

1 day of snow a year in Dallas is one day too many imo.

tfurrh

03-12-2012, 09:29 AM

Wife & I are seriously considering this......

muzzled dogg

03-12-2012, 09:57 AM

i am a signer and mover

i hope yall can join me

tfurrh

03-12-2012, 10:15 AM

i am a signer and mover

i hope yall can join me

The main things we would move there for, more than the freedom living, is the 'strength in numbers.' Is this a big movement? Is this the way to go? Are a lot of people doing this? I don't want to get up there and be just as isolated as I am now (a drop of libertarianism in a sea of big gov't lovers).

Crotale

03-12-2012, 11:00 AM

I posted this is the New Hampshire subforum but I suppose it's still relevant here: :D

This woman comes from NH.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIDHNqUTPM&feature=g-u-u&context=G275f272FUAAAAHgABAA

....are you sure you still want to move there? ;)

Disclaimer: I think the FSP is a good idea and don't really think one individual speaks for an entire state.

TheTexan

03-12-2012, 11:06 AM

The main things we would move there for, more than the freedom living, is the 'strength in numbers.' Is this a big movement? Is this the way to go? Are a lot of people doing this? I don't want to get up there and be just as isolated as I am now (a drop of libertarianism in a sea of big gov't lovers).

If you were to move now, you'd probably feel like a drop in a sea, ya. This is because people like myself, and 11,000 others like me, haven't moved there yet, and are waiting for the full 20,000 pledges.

You don't need to move now, but I would encourage you to sign the pledge, and when the FSP does reach it's full potential, you will see real changes towards freedom.

They have accomplished a lot with 1,000. I can only imagine what they could do with 20,000.

Crotale

03-12-2012, 12:01 PM

The problem is, the state pretty much already chosen is New Hampshire. And people simply are not going to want to move to New Hampshire.

Over 1,000 already have.

IT is not exactly easy to pick up and move to a new state these days either. Expect a lot of New Hampshire residences on food stamps if suddenly 20,000 people moved there with no jobs accompanying them. Unemployment would skyrocket.

Please read: Economics in One Lesson (http://mises.org/document/6785/Economics-in-One-Lesson) by Henry Hazlitt.

You can download a free pdf or audiobook version for free here: http://mises.org/document/6785/Economics-in-One-Lesson

It's a short read and really interesting. You'll find it gripping, I promise you. It's such an enjoyable read that most people (myself included) who read it once, read it over and over again. It's truly fantastic (and recommended by Ron Paul too).

Keith and stuff

03-12-2012, 12:26 PM

I posted this is the New Hampshire subforum but I suppose it's still relevant here: :D

This woman comes from NH.....

....are you sure you still want to move there? ;)

Disclaimer: I think the FSP is a good idea and don't really think one individual speaks for an entire state.

I think this video reenforced the idea that the FSP in NH is a good idea. The first interviewer is Bradley Jardis, a blogger for Free Keene, among other things. He used to be a cop. After talking with FSP movers, he joined Law Enforcement Against Prohibition as one of just a couple active duty (still a cop) members in the world. He eventually left LEAP because the organization thought he was too pro-liberty. He quit his job as a cop because he couldn't handle getting paid to mistreating people every day. He lives in NH and is engaged to a liberty activist that moved to NH as part of the FSP.

The second interviewer is Adam of Adam Vs. The Man. Adam filmed an episode of his TV show at Porcfest. He came up to do another episode partly about the NH Primary. He traveled up to Keene, NH and co-hosted Free Talk Live for a week.

In the interview, both interviewers are hostile to the woman. It isn't surprising that she is hostile to them. It isn't surprising that she supports Mitt Romney. He is the mainstream Republican candidate in NH. I prefer a culture where someone with Romney's views in the mainstream Republican candidate than somewhere where someone with Gingrich's or Santorum's views in the mainstream GOP candidate. I think the vast majority of pro-liberty people agree with that thought. Gingrich is insane as far as I can tell. Santorum acts extremely religious and frequently says he is against liberty and libertarianism.

Schiff_FTW

03-12-2012, 01:53 PM

Don't call the cops or fire department in New Hampshire, unless you're willing to risk getting sued.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120312/NEWS07/703129960

EPPING — The town's deputy fire chief is urging residents not to stop calling for help for fear of being sued if a firefighter or other emergency worker is injured on the job.

The message came in response to concerns over a state Supreme Court ruling last month that found former volunteer Epping firefighter Jason Antosz could sue a homeowner because he slipped on ice and snow and was seriously injured during a call.

“If you call us we're going to come — don't worry about us suing you. We have a job to do,” Deputy Fire Chief Bruce Chapman told selectmen at a board meeting last week.

The case involving Antosz stemmed from a call he responded to at the Epping home of Doree Allain on Jan. 29, 2008, after a fire was reported in a water heater. Antosz slipped on packed ice and snow in the driveway and is now disabled.

Antosz, a Republican state representative, filed suit against Allain, claiming she was negligent for failing to properly treat the driveway, but a Rockingham County Superior Court judge dismissed the case, citing the Fireman's Rule, a law that prevents emergency personnel from bringing lawsuits when they're injured while responding to a call.

The state Supreme Court overturned the ruling last month, saying it can't stop an emergency responder from suing “for other negligent conduct.” The court ruled that the Fireman's Rule “permits a firefighter to pursue causes of action for injuries arising from allegedly negligent conduct that did not create the occasion of his visit, regardless of whether that conduct occurs during or prior to the firefighter's official engagement on the scene.”

This ruling might actually turn out to be a good thing, in that hopefully now fewer people will utilize / be dependent on these services.

tfurrh

03-12-2012, 01:57 PM

Why is NH not a right to work state? Do I have to join a Labor Union to work in NH?

flynn

03-12-2012, 01:58 PM

Can we pick a warmer state... New hampshire is small and geographically preferred. But I would like a warmer climate and bigger land to play with.

Keith and stuff

03-12-2012, 02:05 PM

Why is NH not a right to work state? Do I have to join a Labor Union to work in NH?

It used to be a right to work state. That only lasted a few years. You don't have to join a union to work in NH. I am not sure if even one of the 100s of liberty activists I do activism with in NH is a member of a union. For example, the main bread company is based in Maine and is non-unionized. So while I know people that deliver bread, they are not part of a union.

There was a big effort by some to make NH a right to work state last year. It failed by 12 votes in the NH House to overturn Gov. Lynch's veto. There is another bill to make NH right to work this year. It is worded differently. There is another bill to bring about right to work for attorneys. If it passed, it would mean that attorneys don't have to join the bar association.

The right to work issue isn't a major issue in NH, or wasn't until last year.

Keith and stuff

03-12-2012, 02:11 PM

Can we pick a warmer state... New hampshire is small and geographically preferred. But I would like a warmer climate and bigger land to play with.

I agree that NH is the best possible state, or perhaps you didn't say that :) But seriously, it was already selected by many (most?) of the top liberty activists in the county at the time. Over 1000 people have already moved there. Clearly it is way too late to select a different state for many of the people involved.

I don't understand your comment about needing bigger land to play with. What does that mean? You want to buy 1 million acres or something? Already anyone lives in most of NH. It is just endless mountains, hill, streams, forests and lakes. NH is connected to VT which is mostly the same and Maine. Parts of Maine don't even have government roads because there is no one around to fund them. I really have no idea where you are coming from.

Crotale

03-12-2012, 03:00 PM

I think this video reenforced the idea that the FSP in NH is a good idea. The first interviewer is Bradley Jardis, a blogger for Free Keene, among other things. He used to be a cop. After talking with FSP movers, he joined Law Enforcement Against Prohibition as one of just a couple active duty (still a cop) members in the world. He eventually left LEAP because the organization thought he was too pro-liberty. He quit his job as a cop because he couldn't handle getting paid to mistreating people every day. He lives in NH and is engaged to a liberty activist that moved to NH as part of the FSP.

The second interviewer is Adam of Adam Vs. The Man. Adam filmed an episode of his TV show at Porcfest. He came up to do another episode partly about the NH Primary. He traveled up to Keene, NH and co-hosted Free Talk Live for a week.

In the interview, both interviewers are hostile to the woman. It isn't surprising that she is hostile to them. It isn't surprising that she supports Mitt Romney. He is the mainstream Republican candidate in NH. I prefer a culture where someone with Romney's views in the mainstream Republican candidate than somewhere where someone with Gingrich's or Santorum's views in the mainstream GOP candidate. I think the vast majority of pro-liberty people agree with that thought. Gingrich is insane as far as I can tell. Santorum acts extremely religious and frequently says he is against liberty and libertarianism.

I don't disagree pal. I was posting it in jest, that video will never get old. :)

flynn

03-12-2012, 03:40 PM

I agree that NH is the best possible state, or perhaps you didn't say that :) But seriously, it was already selected by many (most?) of the top liberty activists in the county at the time. Over 1000 people have already moved there. Clearly it is way too late to select a different state for many of the people involved.

I don't understand your comment about needing bigger land to play with. What does that mean? You want to buy 1 million acres or something? Already anyone lives in most of NH. It is just endless mountains, hill, streams, forests and lakes. NH is connected to VT which is mostly the same and Maine. Parts of Maine don't even have government roads because there is no one around to fund them. I really have no idea where you are coming from.

Ops, my bad, I should have emphasized that 'big' in term of population.

Keith and stuff

03-12-2012, 04:41 PM

Ops, my bad, I should have emphasized that 'big' in term of population.

Boston is less than 30 minutes south of Salem, NH if you drive at a time when there is very little traffic on the road. The Boston train line reaches all the way up to Haverhill, MA, a town that borders Salem, NH. Dozens of places are within an hours drive of Boston with those conditions. The Boston MSA, which includes a few places in NH as well as part of RI, includes around 5 million people. There are buses from Nashua, Concord and other parts of NH that run to Boston and back. There is a train line (http://www.amtrakdowneaster.com/schedule/weekday) from Portland, ME to Boston that stops 10 times per day at 3 towns (30 total stops per day) in NH.

Winchester, NH to New York City is a 3 hours and 41 mins drive according to maps.google.com. Greyhound/Peter Pan takes less than 6 hours to go from Keene, NH to Times Square in New York City. There is a train line that runs along the VT/NH border in Vermont that goes to Washington DC. Stops along with train line in VT are 2 minutes from Hinsdale, NH, 6 minutes from Chesterfield, NH, 1 minutes from Walpole, NH, 5 minutes from Cornish, NH, 3 minutes from Lebanon, NH and so on. From the Hinsdale/Chesterfield area train station to New York City it takes 5 hr, 53 min., to Philly it takes 7 hr, 32min. and to Washington DC it takes 9 hr, 44 min. Both Lebanon, NH and Lancaster, NH (where Porcfest happens) are 3 hr, 20 min. from Montreal, the 2nd most populated city in Canada with 1.6 million people and an MSA of 3.8 million people.

Since moving to NH, I've been to Boston and New York City 5-10 times each. I'm not the only that goes, either. I know people that go to concerts and sporting events in Boston. I know people that go to Broadway shows in NYC. I was at Times Square for the Super Bowel, for example. Liberty lovers carpool to both cities and Philadelphia for various events. Boston has one of the largest marijuana festivals in the US. Big name liberty speakers frequent Boston and NYC. Liberty lovers commute to Student for Liberty events, End the Fed events, Anarchist Book fairs, Occupy events and more in those cities.

I'm been in the Springfield, MA MSA (700,000 people) a few times for work and pleasure. Springfield is 50 minutes from Winchester, NH and the University of Massachusetts (home of Extravaganja, a 2000+ person marijuana festival) is only 40 minutes from Winchester, NH. I've also been to the Albany, NY MSA (800,000+ people) a few times for work and pleasure. Albany is 80 miles from the NH border.

flynn

03-12-2012, 08:03 PM

Boston is less than 30 minutes south of Salem, NH if you drive at a time when there is very little traffic on the road. The Boston train line reaches all the way up to Haverhill, MA, a town that borders Salem, NH. Dozens of places are within an hours drive of Boston with those conditions. The Boston MSA, which includes a few places in NH as well as part of RI, includes around 5 million people. There are buses from Nashua, Concord and other parts of NH that run to Boston and back. There is a train line (http://www.amtrakdowneaster.com/schedule/weekday) from Portland, ME to Boston that stops 10 times per day a 3 towns (30 total stops per day) in NH.

Winchester, NH to New York City is a 3 hours and 41 mins drive according to maps.google.com. Greyhound/Peter Pan takes less than 6 hours to go from Keene, NH to Times Square in New York City. There is a train line that runs along the VT/NH border in Vermont that goes to Washington DC. Stops long with train line in VT are 2 minutes from Hinsdale, NH, 6 minutes from Chesterfield, NH, 1 minutes from Walpole, NH, 5 minutes from Cornish, NH, 3 minutes from Lebanon, NH and so on. From the Hinsdale/Chesterfield area train station to New York City it takes 5 hr, 53 min., to Philly it takes 7 hr, 32min. and to Washington DC it takes 9 hr, 44 min. Both Lebanon, NH and Lancaster, NH (where Porcfest happens) are 3 hr, 20 min. from Montreal, the 2nd most populated city in Canada with 1.6 million people and an MSA of 3.8 million people.

Since moving to NH, I've been to Boston and New York City 5-10 times each. I'm not the only that goes, either. I know people that go to concerts and sporting events in Boston. I know people that go to Broadway shows in NYC. I was at Times Square for the Super Bowel, for example. Liberty lovers carpool to both cities and Philadelphia for various events. Boston has one of the largest marijuana festivals in the US. Big name liberty speakers frequent Boston and NYC. Liberty lovers commute to Student for Liberty events, End the Fed events, Anarchist Book fairs, Occupy events and more in those cities.

I'm been in the Springfield, MA MSA (700,000 people) a few times for work and pleasure. Springfield is 50 minutes from the Winchester, NH and The University of Massachusetts (home of Extravaganja, a 2000+ person marijuana festival) is only 40 minutes from Winchester, NH. I've also been to the Albany, NY MSA (800,000+ people) a few times for work and pleasure. Albany is 80 miles from the NH border.

How's the weather though?

Nathan Hale

03-12-2012, 08:16 PM

Wife & I are seriously considering this......

Best state in the union, absolutely worth going. I was an early mover with the FSP back in 03 and had to leave, but I'm making my way back in another year or two.

Nathan Hale

03-12-2012, 08:19 PM

And folks, remember that winning over the USA, as we're finding out, is a tough job. But one state, especially a low-population state like NH, isn't so hard. NH already has a libertarian ethic, and when each of us moves, we're not just going to vote, we're going to be activists. And one activist is worth quite a lot of voters. Jason Sorens estimated that 20,000 would be sufficient for the project, but there were those of us who thought 1,000 or 5,000 would get the job done. Considering the organizations formed in the early years after the state was chosen, I consider the lower targets spot-on.

We might not be able to win over America, but if we band together we can win a state. And if the US keeping marching down the path to destruction, we can always leverage our state and choose not to follow.

bluesc

03-12-2012, 08:23 PM

Someone wanna sponsor me from the UK :p?

Keith and stuff

03-12-2012, 08:32 PM

How's the weather though?

Temperature wise, Salem, NH (on the NH/MA border) is like Chicago, IL. Temperature wise, Haverhill, NH (northern NH) is similar to Minneapolis, MN. It gets really cold and windy on some of the larger mountains in the winter. For example, Mount Washington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Washington_%28New_Hampshire%29).

If you want to be near a lot of people, you will likely be in far southern NH. It's similar to Chicago though less windy, except in the mountains.

TCE

03-12-2012, 09:04 PM

This is concerning: http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-new-hampshire-debt-clock.html

When will the debt be paid off?

flynn

03-12-2012, 11:05 PM

Temperature wise, Salem, NH (on the NH/MA border) is like Chicago, IL. Temperature wise, Haverhill, NH (northern NH) is similar to Minneapolis, MN. It gets really cold and winding on some of the larger mountains in the winter. For example, Mount Washington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Washington_%28New_Hampshire%29).

If you want to be near a lot of people, you will likely be in far southern NH. It's similar to Chicago though less windy, except in the mountains.

Cool good to know. Thanks

Telomerase

03-13-2012, 07:59 AM

tfurrh

03-13-2012, 08:00 AM

Crotale

03-13-2012, 10:21 AM

Someone wanna sponsor me from the UK :p?

Please don't go.....there's not many of us as it is. :p

Telomerase

03-13-2012, 12:53 PM

If you want to be near a lot of people, you will likely be in far southern NH. It's similar to Chicago

Manchester isn't much like Chicago otherwise, though... little crime, convenient airport, easy access to nice parks.

helmuth_hubener

03-13-2012, 02:56 PM

If you were to move now, you'd probably feel like a drop in a sea, ya. This is because people like myself, and 11,000 others like me, haven't moved there yet, and are waiting for the full 20,000 pledges....I can only imagine what they could do with 20,000. The project will not ever get 20,000 movers. The project made a few mistakes early on. No aspersions toward the project managers -- it had never been done before. Also, a whole state is too large. I am seriously thinking of starting a version 2.0 project, a free county/township project, after the Ron Paul campaign is over. We will take some of the lessons learned from the Free State Project and learn from them, and do things better.

Stay tuned.

Telomerase

03-13-2012, 03:20 PM

The project will not ever get 20,000 movers.

The project has 1000 movers right now, and that's without any media at all, even the libertarian-ghetto media. Now that there are policy successes and 1000 friendly people established here, our momentum is increasing. Best of luck to whatever project you attempt, but a "free township" is much harder than what we're doing. We're not trying to replace the population of NH and thus isolate ourselves, just spice it with more activists.

Telomerase

03-13-2012, 03:21 PM

No aspersions toward the project managers

There aren't any managers, although we do have a Queen ;)

Google nhliberty.org and read up!

helmuth_hubener

03-13-2012, 03:36 PM

I am very familiar with the project, Telomerase, you do not have to educate me.

I am curious as to what possible thought process has led you to the conclusion that it would be "much harder" to reduce the government apparatus in a township than it would be to do so in an entire state.

Keith and stuff

03-13-2012, 04:21 PM

The project will not ever get 20,000 movers.

We have no idea. It may get 8,000 movers (more than enough, IMO) or 35,000 movers. Time will tell :)

Also, a whole state is too large. I am seriously thinking of starting a version 2.0 project, a free county/township project, after the Ron Paul campaign is over.

I don't think a state is too large. Previously, people were trying a Free US Project. That project seems to be less and less effective year after year, for decades. How we are trying a Free State Project. So far, the results have been very positive. It is clear that 1,000 movers isn't enough, though.

As for a Free Town Project, there was a project like that in NH. It wasn't connected to the FSP. It upset a lot of locals and the crazier people involved with it, never moved to the town. However, some people have moved to the town, maybe 30-60. The town was already pretty far along when it came to liberty and 30 additional movers would be enough to rule back much of the unnecessary rules and regulations and reduce taxes. 50-100 new movers, especially if they are all decent people that vote and the sky is the limit. I'm glad you are thinking about doing something like this. Since it is already happening and with very positive results in Grafton, perhaps you can recruit a few additional movers.

helmuth_hubener

03-13-2012, 04:27 PM

Keith and stuff

03-13-2012, 04:42 PM

One thing that could be done immediately without any moving is for most NH liberty people to change their legal residence to be in Grafton and vote in the Grafton elections.

Some people do move to Manchester or somewhere else in NH and then move to Grafton. It would be horrible to claim to legally live in Grafton but not actually live there. To vote in Grafton you go to the town hall and talk to the other voters and then vote on the issues together. Voters in Grafton know other voters in Grafton. If 800 new people showed up one year (way more than all of the voters currently in the town) all hell would break loose. The Attorney General would investigate and a lot of people (deserving) would likely go to jail.

The people of Grafton aren't against liberty. Libertarians frequently get elected to positions and have controlling interest on at least one town board. Many of these libertarians are locals that have lived in Grafton for decades. The most popular person in town is a free stater and everyone knows he is a free stater. There was a recent election where a libertarian Democrat lost a major seat to a local statist. 5 more voters and the election will go the other way next time. A town right next to Grafton leans pretty libertarian, also (both towns went to Ron Paul, although several towns near Grafton went to Ron Paul so that isn't saying much.)

Other great things about Grafton are that it is 30-60 minutes from a major regional shopping area with the best college in Northern England, the best hospital in Northern New England, the Interstate and a train that goes all the way south to Washington DC. It is also only 45-60 minutes from Concord, the center of state government. When I go to testify at committee hearings, I frequently see a carload of Grafton people there, also testifying.

TheTexan

03-13-2012, 05:53 PM

Hey Keith, did you get a chance to answer that Maine question yet?

BTW, I agree that a "Free Town Project" would probably be 'easier'... it may not necessarily be better. When working on the town level it's more likely you'll hit a freedom ceiling. I'd love to see you try to evict the Feds on the town level for example... on the state level, you may be able to get away with it. :)

That said, there's no reason not to do a "Free Town Project" within NH. A sub movement is win/win.

Telomerase

03-13-2012, 06:33 PM

One thing that could be done immediately without any moving is for most NH liberty people to change their legal residence to be in Grafton and vote in the Grafton elections.

Sure, if you want to have the credibility of Vice President Cheney. People KNOW each other around here ;)

That's the thing, the idea isn't to "replace" the indigenous population, it's just to provide watchdog groups like the NHLA and the MVTU (http://mvtu.eprci.com/)

If the general population is anti-freedom there would be no point.

I lived in Grafton for a while BTW... it's an excellent illustration of how much harder it is to work at the town level. e.g., the state controls education, all the town does is follow mandates... as I pointed out, our state reps have already thrown out a lot of bad laws. Very hard to do that at the town level. It's also a lot harder for 100 people to all find jobs in the same small town than to find them in Manchvegas or the rest of NH. The Graftonites have done some very good work, and I'd certainly buy property there with Jay and Silent Bob on the planning board rather than in a random similar town... but unless you have a completely telecommuting job or are retired, how would you support yourself in an isolated small town? Again, best of luck in your efforts... there's plenty of room for free-market zones, the planet is not exactly saturated with them ;)

helmuth_hubener

03-13-2012, 07:51 PM

Some people do move to Manchester or somewhere else in NH and then move to Grafton. It would be horrible to claim to legally live in Grafton but not actually live there. To vote in Grafton you go to the town hall and talk to the other voters and then vote on the issues together. Voters in Grafton know other voters in Grafton. If 800 new people showed up one year (way more than all of the voters currently in the town) all hell would break loose. The Attorney General would investigate and a lot of people (deserving) would likely go to jail. So long as all laws have been carefully followed, who would go to jail? Legal residence is a very fuzzy thing...

http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/sport/martiaux/sninja.gif

Nathan Hale

03-13-2012, 08:27 PM

Keith, I am familiar with the Free Town Project you mention. Yes, Grafton would be a very good candidate, building on the half-aborted attempt of yore. I would like more than 100, however, considering that Grafton has a population of over a thousand.

One thing that could be done immediately without any moving is for most NH liberty people to change their legal residence to be in Grafton and vote in the Grafton elections.

We had this debate on the FSP boards in days of yore and I'll take the same position now - the idea of a Free Town Projects is a bad one. See, the FSP isn't about using democracy to take over anything. It's about leveling the playing field of information so that we stand a chance of appealing to the majority. The "FTP" was about physically taking control of a town by force of numbers and making it libertarian. For starters, I find that to be a horrible thing to do to a native population. And even with the moral aspect aside, a free town guarantees nothing, because a township doesn't control that much, even in NH - and if the town chose to violate state or federal laws, they'd be subject to that much more negative scrutiny. Galt's Gulch is a fairy tale, the Free State is for real.

helmuth_hubener

03-13-2012, 08:28 PM

Sure, if you want to have the credibility of Vice President Cheney. Cheney has a whole ton of credibility out here in Wyoming, actually. But anyway, it's not credibility that I'm really seeking and caring about -- at all! It's freedom!

If the general population is anti-freedom there would be no point. Of course the general population is anti-freedom. All general populations are... to a degree. I want a very high degree of freedom, let me tell you. That is, I want actual freedom. Is the "indigenous" population clamoring for privatized education? I think not. Thus, I have a difference of opinion with them. I will be able to persuade some of them to come around to my point of view, sure. Others won't be persuaded. I want to be able to defeat those unpersuaded intransigents. So do many of us. We want to win. That takes numbers.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, understand. I'm sure the people of Grafton township are pro-freedom, relatively speaking. But everything is relative.

I lived in Grafton for a while BTW... it's an excellent illustration of how much harder it is to work at the town level. e.g., the state controls education, all the town does is follow mandates... And what happens if the town were to quietly stop following mandates? Wouldn't it be worthwhile to find out? Maybe the State comes in and burns the town to the ground. It's possible. But I rather think it will not do that, not over educational mandates. If things are done carefully, with prudence, one can see that meaningful advances in liberty are very attainable, not only in a New Hampshire township, but in a Montana county, a Hawaiian county (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalawao_County,_Hawaii), or any low-population place.

as I pointed out, our state reps have already thrown out a lot of bad laws. I have been watching that with interest. They have been doing good things. Now they haven't thrown out very many bad laws in the great scheme of things. The number of pages of laws in New Hampshire has not gone down by a significant percentage. It may even have gone up. But I am not anti-New Hampshire. I was surprised and impressed with the good things done last session, the largest of which was to actually reduce the budget. Government budgets never go down. Never. Absolutely never. At any level. We'll see if the reduction actually eventuates. I hope it will, and that further large reductions are forthcoming.

Very hard to do that at the town level. What? No it's not. You repeal your laws down to one page, and you reduce your budget down to as close to zip as possible. The town government appears to have spent $871,925.25 in 2011. That's for a town of 1338 people. That's 750 bucks a person they're taking on average. That's a lot of money to free up, to liberate back into the private marketplace.

It's also a lot harder for 100 people to all find jobs in the same small town than to find them in Manchvegas or the rest of NH. The Graftonites have done some very good work, and I'd certainly buy property there with Jay and Silent Bob on the planning board rather than in a random similar town... but unless you have a completely telecommuting job or are retired, how would you support yourself in an isolated small town? Again, best of luck in your efforts... there's plenty of room for free-market zones, the planet is not exactly saturated with them ;) Thank you, thank you. Yes, I think our numbers have expanded to the point where we really could have some success with a geographical concentration strategy.

helmuth_hubener

03-13-2012, 08:35 PM

Galt's Gulch is a fairy tale, the Free State is for real. I speak not of a retreat into a libertarian utopia, Mr. Hale. I speak merely of a well-thought-out geographical concentration of numbers. The town or county would remain itself, everyone would remain connected with the outside world, and life would go on as ever, it is just that government's size and intrusiveness would be going down, down, ever and inexorably down. No natives would be being abused. Tell me, was I abusing poor Romney supporters when I "physically took control" of my county GOP convention this weekend and, by "force of numbers," stole the victory away from them and gave it instead to Ron Paul?

Echoes

03-13-2012, 09:13 PM

When NH or any other state repeals all property tax, let me know. Then, and only then, can we BEGIN talking about the existence of a free state.

I know you're 'Project' needs to paint a rosey picture to attract others but the fact is, NH is overwhelmingly authoritarian and violent. It's better on many liberties then many States, but that's not saying much when every where you go is a statist hellhole. If Nh was so libertarian, Ron Paul wouldve won in a landslide, yet he couldnt even win outright.

That said...NY is such a disaster, i find the idea of moving to Nh very appealing. Switzerland, even more so.

TheTexan

03-13-2012, 09:18 PM

The "FTP" was about physically taking control of a town by force of numbers and making it libertarian. For starters, I find that to be a horrible thing to do to a native population. And even with the moral aspect aside

There is absolutely nothing wrong or immoral with using their own system of politics against them. These are the rules they have forced upon us, and likewise they must abide by the same.

Additionally, they lost any and all rights to complain when they decided to stop following the Constitution. If they don't like our version of freedom, I'm sure the various levels of governments would be happy to oblige them if they'd like to continue cutting checks out of their salary. Otherwise, there are 18,442 other towns they can move to.

I have zero sympathy for them.

TheTexan

03-13-2012, 09:21 PM

Switzerland, even more so.

I'm making plans for this as we speak. Unless the FSP gains some steam or a secession movement materializes, I'm out of here.

Switzerland is definitely the lesser of two tyrannies. Beautiful country, also.

dissidentX

03-13-2012, 10:47 PM

If I could figure out a way to get rich and comfortable quickly I would move to NH and join the free state project. But it isn't likely.

I do think NH was a bad choice. The job market there is not very good so it's a risk. A better state would be one that has a climate and environment for agriculture; in other words a state that can provide more agorism and independence.

Telomerase

03-14-2012, 07:27 AM

I was surprised and impressed with the good things done last session, the largest of which was to actually reduce the budget.

Yes, that's the order-of-magnitude improvement over other libertarian efforts. That alone demonstrates that FSP would be worthwhile to try full-scale.

>I do think NH was a bad choice. The job market there is not very good so it's a risk.

I'm not following you, NH unemployment is far below the national level. Manchester is a big city with a wide variety of jobs.

>A better state would be one that has a climate and environment for agriculture

If you'll recall from your third-grade geography, there ARE no small warm states ;) Anyway, only 2% of Americans actually make their living by full-time farming, IIRC. I am a little prejudiced, as I like the outdoors, and NH has the perfect climate for me. I was in Texas for a while, and the fire ants and dengue-carrying mosquitoes convinced me that tropical only looks good on TV ;)

Schiff_FTW

03-14-2012, 07:37 AM

I do think NH was a bad choice. The job market there is not very good so it's a risk.

It has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country.

Schiff_FTW

03-14-2012, 07:40 AM

http://www.wirenh.com/features-mainmenu-18/cover-stories-mainmenu-53/5549-free-association.html

Now a decade old, the Free State Project is one of several social movements across the nation seeking to ignite change.

Amid the growing number of new economic and political movements cropping up all over the United States in recent years, the Free State Project claims to have been working for more than a decade to motivate Libertarian-minded individuals to migrate to a central location and “create a freer, better society through the electoral process and cultural change.”

That location, as chosen in 2003 by Free State Project member votes, is New Hampshire. According to the Free State Project, the movement’s 1,000th member recently relocated to New Hampshire, and approximately 11,600 persons have signed a statement of intention to move to New Hampshire within five years of the group gathering 20,000 signatures.

They’ll be promoting the movement, its ideals, and the benefits of living in New Hampshire at their upcoming Liberty Forum in Nashua this weekend, Feb. 23 to 26. The forum will feature investment broker, author and financial commentator Peter Schiff, food freedom fighter Joel Salatin, and marijuana reform advocate Jodie Emery.
Events like this and their annual summer Porcupine Freedom Festival not only serve to promote the Libertarian mindset, but also create conversation that Free State Project president Carla Gericke says is of the utmost importance to the group’s goals.

“We are striving to live as free as possible,” Gericke said. “With freedom comes great responsibility. Sometimes, when I think about the movement, it’s almost like a form of localization on steroids.”

Gericke believes the Free State Project is attractive to people because the idea of collecting Libertarians to make a difference in government is a practical one. She added that, since her election as Free State Project president in 2011—three years after her own move to New Hampshire—she has been less focused on getting signatures on the statement of intent.

“Some of my focus has actually moved toward attracting people to move,” she said. “It’s great that they signed the pledge, but in terms of things on the ground, the more bodies we have here, the more we can actually accomplish.”

Members say the Granite State provides the perfect base for a number of reasons. National media often rates the state and its towns as among the most livable in the country, based on factors such as median household income, crime rate and business tax climate. The Legislature has 424 members, making it the largest state government in the country and providing the highest ratio of representation. And the state’s “live free or die” motto is deeply representative of the Free State Project goals.
But, like other social movements around the nation, the Free State Project has also taken its share of criticism. Some residents think Free Staters are attempting to subvert the very traditions and values it claims to admire.

New Hampshire Democratic Party Chair Ray Buckley, who served in the N.H. House from 1986 to 2004, said he finds it difficult to discuss the Free State Project and their mission without sounding like he’s telling the story of a science fiction film.

“I think that they are radical extremists who chose New Hampshire nine years ago to infiltrate and take over,” Buckley said. “Their philosophy is to impose this sort of extremist, cult-like ideology onto the people of New Hampshire.”
Those who want to join the movement and are willing to migrate are asked to sign a state of intention which reads: “I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.”

The Free State Project adopted its mission statement in 2005. “The success of the Project would likely entail reductions in taxation and regulation, reforms at all levels of government to expand individual rights and free markets, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world,” the statement concludes.

Gericke says the project identifies as being fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but it is not a political party. She said the Free State Project is just a vehicle to get like-minded people into New Hampshire, though it is common for Free Staters to get involved in political and non-profit work. Gericke said many Free Staters want to be as apolitical as possible, while others believe true social reform can only be accomplished through a democratic process.

In Gericke’s view, the movement has already made serious progress. In addition to the 1,000 members who have already moved here, approximately 12 to 15 Free Staters are now members of the N.H. House of Representatives, and some people associated with the movement have taken other public offices.

Among those who agree with their goals is Republican Jack Thorsen, a member of the Portsmouth City Council. Thorsen also serves as the Area 2 vice chair of the state GOP’s Executive Committee, responsible for Rockingham and Strafford counties. Although Thorsen does not officially identify as a Free Stater, he has taken the movement’s pledge to support smaller government and a freer society. Thorsen already lived in New Hampshire when he took the pledge.

Thorsen said he first learned of the Free State Project during an Internet search in 2006 for groups that shared his concerns about loss of privacy, foreign wars, and intense government growth following the 9/11 attacks.

“I was appalled at the Patriot Act,” Thorsen said. “I was appalled at the financial cronyism in government, the destruction of the wealth of the common man and the potential for an economic crisis, which of course occurred. The system appeared to me to be corrupt and I wanted to know if anyone else felt the same way.”

Thorsen also found several other Libertarian and taxpayer groups that felt the same way. As a Republican, he said he opted to work within his party to make changes rather than working directly with any emerging movements. He has found that these concerns are not just Republican or Libertarian in nature, however.

“I’ve discovered that many people who are Democrats and independents also have the same concerns,” he said. “Not surprisingly, freedom and peace are nonpartisan ideas.”

Free Staters in the Legislature have been working to push reform legislation like House Bill 442, aimed at the legalization of medical marijuana. They have also introduced or championed HB 330, which would decriminalize the act of carrying an open or concealed firearm without a permit, among other proposed bills.

“To some extent, I think we’re just starting to open the debate about what it means to ‘live free or die,’” Gericke said. “Who owns your body? Does the state really have the right to tell you to smoke or not smoke a plant?”
According to Gericke, Free State Project members were also instrumental in cutting the state budget.

She also cited the passage of HB 146 as a significant accomplishment. The bill states that in all criminal proceedings the court shall instruct the jury of its inherent right to judge not only the facts of the case, but also the application of the law in relation to those facts. Known as jury nullification, the measure is intended to allow people to vote their conscience if they feel a law is unjust. It will take effect in 2013.

Brinck Slattery, a political volunteer who moved to New Hampshire in 2007 to support Ron Paul’s presidential campaign, said he thinks these issues are pertinent to individuals across the board, regardless of political or socioeconomic background.

“I think that (the Free State Project) has been an interesting tool for people to meet each other where they wouldn’t have necessarily ever networked together,” Slattery said. “I’ve met a lot of people who I never thought would be my political friends.”

Currently, Slattery is working with Standing Up for New Hampshire Families, a bipartisan group dedicated to protecting the state’s marriage equality law. The Legislature is considering a bill to repeal the same-sex marriage law that passed in 2009, and Slattery is one of many citizens working to prevent that repeal from happening.

“People see (same-sex marriage) as being not a Republican issue, but it is a personal freedom issue and that’s why we need to be in favor of it,” Slattery said.
House minority leader Terie Norelli (D-Portsmouth), is serving her eighth term as a representative. She said the addition of more than a dozen Free Staters to the House has led to the introduction of legislation that aim to subvert New Hampshire’s traditions.

For example, she said, several bills currently in the House would deplete public education, which does not reflect the preference of most state residents. A WMUR Granite State Poll, conducted by the University of New Hampshire Survey Center within the last month, found that among all voters across the political spectrum, 56 percent were at least somewhat satisfied with the quality of education in their local high schools and elementary schools, 27 percent were at least somewhat dissatisfied, and 17 percent were neutral or had no response.

Norelli said each member of the House represents approximately 3,300 citizens. Since there are more than a dozen Free Staters in the House representing just 1,000 Free State members, their influence is disproportionately strong.

“I have never before had so many people stop me in the grocery store or the coffee shop —people that I know or people that I don’t know—who say things like ‘What is going on in Concord?’ or ‘How are you able to deal with these people?’” Norelli said. “These are citizens that are asking me these questions. So I hope that the public is paying attention. I do not believe that this is what people were expecting when they went to the polls last November.”

According to UNH philosophy professor Willem deVries, who is interested in the intersection where politics and philosophy of the mind meet, Free State members have not been totally open and honest about their intentions. He said the Free Staters “basically scammed the Republican Party in the last election,” running on Republican platforms while holding ideals that only partially overlap with those of traditional Republicans in the state.

“I’m pretty sure that the voters of this state did not know what they were getting when they put the current legislature in office,” deVries said.

Buckley and Norelli both said they believe Free Staters took advantage of the economic climate in 2010 to run for offices in the state Legislature. Buckley Free Staters typically didn’t claim their association with the movement, which seriously misled voters in those districts.

“It’s the tip of the iceberg,” Buckley said. “Their state of intent was to move into the chosen state and infiltrate it, starting with local government and slowly moving their way up until they had the ability to shut down all of the government entities. Thank God, none of them so far have been elected to a major office.”

Gericke said such criticism is familiar territory for the Free State Project. She said she wishes to start a dialogue with residents to change these perceptions.

“We’re not some bogeyman,” she said. “We want to see the world in a better place than it is right now.”

Slattery said the Free State Project has become a scapegoat for both the Republican and Democratic parties. He said critics have a tendency to target the movement for any “crazy” bill proposal, even as they celebrate some other bills supported by Free Staters.

“The ultimate crime in New Hampshire is to be an outside group that’s trying to influence the state,” Slattery said. “It’s unfortunate that it’s become a scapegoat for extremism.”

Gericke, who moved to New Hampshire with her husband in 2008, is a South African immigrant who moved to the United States about 20 years ago. According to data from the N.H. Center for Public Policy Studies, fewer than 50 percent of New Hampshire residents are natives of the state. Gericke said Free State Project migrants come here for similar reasons as other migrants who move to the state on a yearly basis.

“(New Hampshire) is awesome, and we want to come here and keep it awesome,” she said. Gericke said her internal goal for the movement is to get another 1,000 individuals to move to New Hampshire within the next two years. “We are seeing that both the signup and the moving is accelerating,” Gericke said. “I think it’s going to start going a lot faster.”

Norelli herself moved to New Hampshire 35 years ago. She said there is a vast difference between people who move to New Hampshire because they like the state, its school systems, its political values, and its economic climate, and people who move with the intention of working as a collective to change those elements of the state.

“This has been a two-year period of some really dramatic changes in our state laws and in our way of doing business,” Norelli said. “If they liked (New Hampshire) and they were moving here because they liked the way it was, why do they find so much that needs to be changed?”

Since the Free State Project started, other social movements like the Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street and the Internet-based Anonymous have garnered national media attention. While these movements have different goals and means of achieving them, a common thread seems to connect them all: unrest, over the state of the economy, governmental decisions that appear to benefit only the nation’s wealthiest citizens, bank bailouts, war debt, anonymous donations to political campaigns and outsourcing of jobs.

Gericke thinks economic pressure, combined with easy-access, free exchange of information on the Internet is changing people’s outlooks and expanding the dialogue beyond the left-right paradigm of U.S. politics.

“I think people are dissatisfied and struggling and starting to question what they’ve been taught and what they’ve been told,” Gericke said. “The more people who rise up and make their voices heard, the better.”

Gericke said she is pleased that people are beginning to look at the issues the Free State Project explores in a more critical light. The Free State Project might not have inspired these other movements, she said, but the problems are certainly being examined across the spectrum.

Slattery said people are more capable of coming together and uniting under a particular cause because of advancing technology like social media. Therefore, more movements are cropping up all the time.

“People are finding out that they’re not alone in the way that they think in all sorts of different ways,” Slattery said. “There are independent minds and self-governing individuals who tend to want to make things more free for everybody. The driving passion comes from a desire for individual liberty.”
A hindrance to such movements, Slattery said, is that they often lack focus. He said if more issue-based, specific-goal-oriented groups started to take precedence, change might happen more quickly.

Thorsen said people’s movements often fade over time, whether they are “absorbed into the status quo” or marginalized completely. He believes the reason for the upsurge in movements at this time is due to people’s extreme dissatisfaction with the government.

“My hope is that people will retain their love for freedom, peace and honesty in government, along with the need for personal responsibility, and that these eternal ideas will guide us into the future no matter what organizational form we might employ to achieve them,” Thorsen said.

Pericles

03-14-2012, 08:17 AM

tfurrh

03-14-2012, 08:34 AM

Doing what I'm doing now isn't doing it.....
Talking about what I can do, or should do, isn't doing it....
Talking about how what I should do is better that what you think I should do isn't doing it

I'm going to do something. This is the best plan offered right now. If it goes to Hell, at least I did something.

Keith and stuff

03-14-2012, 09:11 AM

I do think NH was a bad choice. The job market there is not very good so it's a risk.

NH is known for having the lowest unemployment rate east of the Mississippi River. VT, which borders NH, also has a very low unemployment rate compared to most states east of the Mississippi River. It isn't just a low unemployment rate, but it's the ability to absorb new workers, that helps make the case for NH. That was one of the big concerns during the great which state debate that many of the leaders in the US liberty movement had before a state was voted on to be the free state destination state. NH and WY were the two leading states. People realized that WY wasn't part of any large MSAs and that while it would be possible for people to commute to the Salt Lake City and Denver areas for work, most people would find the commute excessive. NH has a much larger internal job market than WY and has many more out of state short commute jobs than WY. Some people thought that without the ability for people to find work, it would be a mistake to vote for a state like WY.

Of course, there is often difficulty finding a job when moving to a new area. That's why FSPers have created vast resources to help people find housing and jobs. There are real estate agents in the southern Seacoast, the northern Seacoast, Manchester, Concord and the Upper Valley that love to work with FSPers. We have created web pages, forums, Facebook pages and groups and so on to help people.

A few examples.
Housing:
http://freestateproject.org/nhinfo/Housing.php
http://forum.shiresociety.com/index.php?board=6.0
http://porcupinerealtor.com/
http://lydiaharman.com/
http://porcmanor.com/

Jobs:
http://freestateproject.org/jobs
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=30.0
https://www.facebook.com/groups/fspjobalert/
http://forum.shiresociety.com/index.php?board=5.0

http://www.wirenh.com/features-mainmenu-18/cover-stories-mainmenu-53/5549-free-association.html

Events like this and their annual summer Porcupine Freedom Festival not only serve to promote the Libertarian mindset, but also create conversation that Free State Project president Carla Gericke says is of the utmost importance to the group’s goals.

It is annoying how most articles I read on a subject I'm highly informed on get multiple facts wrong. The FSP isn't a Libertarian Party group and the people involved aren't even just libertarians. This article repeatedly says that, for some reason.

She also cited the passage of HB 146 as a significant accomplishment. The bill states that in all criminal proceedings the court shall instruct the jury of its inherent right to judge not only the facts of the case, but also the application of the law in relation to those facts. Known as jury nullification, the measure is intended to allow people to vote their conscience if they feel a law is unjust. It will take effect in 2013.

I don't know why this bill was brought up. It passed the House last year and the Senate this year. It still isn't ready to be sent to Gov. Lynch. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/Bill_docket.aspx?lsr=91&sy=2012&sortoption=&txtsessionyear=2012&txtbillnumber=hb146&q=1

According to UNH philosophy professor Willem deVries, who is interested in the intersection where politics and philosophy of the mind meet, Free State members have not been totally open and honest about their intentions. He said the Free Staters “basically scammed the Republican Party in the last election,” running on Republican platforms while holding ideals that only partially overlap with those of traditional Republicans in the state.

It is great that the article includes such nonsense, so that it is balanced. The FSP doesn't have members, it has participants. I'm pretty sure all of the FSPers that ran for office were totally honest about their intentions. They want to reduce the size of government and prevent a personal income or general sales tax while working to reduce property taxes. That's what the vast majority of people in NH want. It is pretty similar to what the NH GOP platform says.

Buckley Free Staters typically didn’t claim their association with the movement, which seriously misled voters in those districts.

I don't know of any Free Stater that ran for office that was asked if they were a FSP mover that said no. Buckley is a Democratic Party hack and part of the 2012 Democratic Party plan is to vilify Free Staters, Tea Party supporters and small government supporters. The plan is to call them outsiders, extremists and so on, to scary people.

According to data from the N.H. Center for Public Policy Studies, fewer than 50 percent of New Hampshire residents are natives of the state. Gericke said Free State...

That's true. NH has one of the lowest native populations in the US at just over 40%.

Norelli herself moved to New Hampshire 35 years ago. She said there is a vast difference between people who move to New Hampshire because they like the state, its school systems, its political values, and its economic climate, and people who move with the intention of working as a collective to change those elements of the state.

What Norelli does is follow the the Democratic Party plan to return to power in 2012 which includes labeling FSPers for the people that proposed the extreme and ridiculous bills that have been proposed this term. However, as she knows, the vast majority of those people were proposed by non-FSPers. I am pretty sure much of the reason that many FSPers moved to NH is because they like NH's political values and its economic climate, the same reasons she moved to NH.

TheTexan

03-14-2012, 11:21 AM

Have an employer lined up to sponsor your Swiss residency? You're not getting in otherwise.

Not yet. I'll start looking for a job there in the next 6-12 months. Gotta tie up some loose ends here first.

Crotale

03-14-2012, 04:01 PM

I'm making plans for this as we speak. Unless the FSP gains some steam or a secession movement materializes, I'm out of here.

Switzerland is definitely the lesser of two tyrannies. Beautiful country, also.

Believe me when I say this as a European with Swiss friends, Switzerland is not all its cracked up to be in terms of liberty. You're right that it's a beautiful country.

You'd be better of in Hong Kong or Singapore. If not try New Hampshire, either of the Dakotas, Wyoming or somewhere else. In fact, if low tax and lots of civil liberties is what you're looking for, some parts of Bulgaria (the more remote parts) aren't a bad shout either.

I see a lot of American libertarians rave on about Switzerland as if it's some sort of beacon of libertarianism. As a Brit, I find this rather perplexing. For me, if I were planning on emigrating, I'd sooner relocate to New England or Hong Kong before I even considered migrating to Switzerland.

Crotale

03-14-2012, 04:09 PM

That's true. NH has one of the lowest native populations in the state at just over 40%.

You mean union right? :confused:

bluesc

03-14-2012, 04:11 PM

Please don't go.....there's not many of us as it is. :p

I won't be going anywhere any time soon :p.

I have four years in a new city to get to a meaningful position in the political system that makes it worth staying.

Crotale

03-14-2012, 04:12 PM

I won't be going anywhere any time soon :p.

I have four years in a new city to get to a meaningful position in the political system that makes it worth staying.

Whereabouts in the UK do you live?

bluesc

03-14-2012, 04:16 PM

Whereabouts in the UK do you live?

Currently in Hertfordshire. Heading up to Aberdeen (leftist land) this year for university although will split my time between the two since there are at least a few semi-libertarians in power down here.

Crotale

03-14-2012, 04:18 PM

Currently in Hertfordshire. Heading up to Aberdeen (leftist land) this year for university although will split my time between the two since there
are at least a few semi-libertarians in power down here.

Lol, you can't get much more statist than Aberdeen. :D

I live in the suburbs of London (Sutton :)), but will be moving to Kent next year for Uni.

Keith and stuff

03-14-2012, 05:27 PM

Hey Keith, did you get a chance to answer that Maine question yet?

Your question was, "Out of curiousity, what was the reason for choosing NH over Maine? Less than 6,000 people voted in the primaries in Maine this year. Over 200,000 voted in the NH primaries."

Heck, back in 2002, we didn't even know if Ron Paul was going to run for President again. The idea of the FSP isn't to get a Republican Presidential candidate to win the Republican Primary/Caucus in one state. Also, I don't consider the process in Maine being so complicated and unwelcoming a positive thing.

All of the low population states were considered, at first. HI was eliminated because of how statist it is and RI was eliminated for that reason along with the corruption. Out of the 10 states that were left, NH, WY and MT were the most popular. NH was popular because it had the strongest LP in the nation, no personal income tax, no general sales tax and the motto live free or die, among other reasons. WY was popular because of the lack on personal income tax, no general corporate tax and low population, among other things. MT was popular because of Big Sky Country and how it used to have unique freedoms such as reasonable speed limits instead of posted speed limits on Interstates and allowed drinking and driving, among other things.

ME wasn't really popular because it has near the worst economic freedom in the US and when compared to NH was worse in almost every way. ME also had some of the problems that the western states had. The population centers in ME are spread out, it's colder than NH, has less jobs, has less ability to commute out of state for jobs and less future job development. The governor of NH joined as a Friend of the FSP and welcomed FSPs to come on up. Other governors were not as welcoming. For example, the MT governor encouraged us to move to ID and the ID governor encouraged us to move elsewhere. The NH GOP Chair said, "If these individuals choose to come to New Hampshire they'll find an atmosphere that's very open to grassroots activities and very strong and independent voter participation." NH also had the highest amount of free staters when the vote happened. As I said before, NH had the strongest LP in the county and that organization worked hard to get the FSP to select NH. Ironically, since then, the NH GOP has become so welcoming to libertarians and even former Libertarians (Party members) that the NH LP isn't the strongest LP in the county anymore.

Read about it here, http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/benson.php

FSP which state voting results:
1. New Hampshire
2. Wyoming
3. Montana
4. Idaho
5. Alaska
6. Maine
7. Vermont
8. Delaware
9. South Dakota
10. North Dakota

1st place voting results:
NH 749
ME 118
ND 24

2nd place voting results:
NH 341
ME 257
ND 38

The vote was taken with the Condorcet method. Read about it and the results here, http://freestateproject.org/archives/state_vote/FSP-ECL-CertificationCompleted.htm

BTW, I agree that a "Free Town Project" would probably be 'easier'... it may not necessarily be better. When working on the town level it's more likely you'll hit a freedom ceiling. I'd love to see you try to evict the Feds on the town level for example... on the state level, you may be able to get away with it. :)

That said, there's no reason not to do a "Free Town Project" within NH. A sub movement is win/win.

There is no official Free Town Project in but the people in Grafton are many years ahead of what people are thinking about doing when they think about the FTP in the rest of the US. Heck, even in Manchester, the largest city in NH (110,000 or so), without the help of liberty activists, one of the alderman (city councilors) and 3 of the State Reps. wouldn't be elected. Liberty activists are involved with the Manchester GOP. Heck, a liberty activist was just given their activist of the year award.

I'm not against the idea of liberty activists concentrating in one town or city. It is certainly happening in NH. However, having 1 pro-liberty State Senator isn't enough. Heck, we have 3 State Senators that endorsed Ron Paul right now, and that isn't enough.

Even on the state level, good things are happening. The Speak of the House wouldn't have been elected without FSPers, and he is on video praising FSPers. The Senate Majority Leader (a former US Rep.) welcomed FSPers to NH. The GOP Platform wouldn't support jury nullification without FSPers. We also helped get a bill on that through both the NH House and the NH Senate.

Keith and stuff

03-14-2012, 05:36 PM

Believe me when I say this as a European with Swiss friends, Switzerland is not all its cracked up to be in terms of liberty. You're right that it's a beautiful country.

You'd be better of in Hong Kong or Singapore. If not try New Hampshire, either of the Dakotas, Wyoming or somewhere else. In fact, if low tax and lots of civil liberties is what you're looking for, some parts of Bulgaria (the more remote parts) aren't a bad shout either.

I see a lot of American libertarians rave on about Switzerland as if it's some sort of beacon of libertarianism. As a Brit, I find this rather perplexing. For me, if I were planning on emigrating, I'd sooner relocate to New England or Hong Kong before I even considered migrating to Switzerland.

You make a good point. The firearms laws are certainly worse in Switzerland than in NH. Oh, and in Switzerland there is something called national service. You do it or pay extra taxes, go to jail or die. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Switzerland

Certainly NH is more free than Switzerland as a whole. However, I haven't studied all of Switzerland. Perhaps certainly cantons in Switzerland are freer than NH. Are they freer than places like Grafton? Doubtful, but perhaps they are freer than places like Portsmouth, Lebanon and Keene. Just remember, if you live outside the US and are upper middle class, you still are supposed to pay US income taxes.

Echoes

03-14-2012, 06:15 PM

TheTexan

03-14-2012, 06:22 PM

How are the gun laws "certainly worse in Switzerland then in NH" ? The entire population in Switzerland is armed to the teeth, historians say it's a big reason why they werent invaded by the Nazis in ww2.

From what I recall the carry privileges are basically nonexistent. I'm obviously not a big fan of that, but I'm not too concerned when you take into consideration their low crime rates.

Also, the difference between the taxes here, and the taxes there, is that you at least get something with your taxes there. :)

Echoes

03-14-2012, 06:28 PM

From what I recall the carry privileges are basically nonexistent. I'm obviously not a big fan of that, but I'm not too concerned when you take into consideration their low crime rates.

Also, the difference between the taxes here, and the taxes there, is that you at least get something with your taxes there. :)

Is that open carry ? or concealed, too ? I dont even know the carry laws in Switzerland, that's why i asked. If they've banned all carrying, then that's a big strike against them.

TheTexan

03-14-2012, 06:31 PM

Is that open carry ? or concealed, too ? I dont even know the carry laws in Switzerland, that's why i asked. If they've banned all carrying, then that's a big strike against them.

To carry a weapon open or concealed you have to

state plausibly the need to carry firearms to protect oneself, other people, or real property from a specified danger

i.e., private security

Echoes

03-14-2012, 06:37 PM

To carry a weapon open or concealed you have to

i.e., private security

Maybe im wrong but for some reason, i doubt this applies nationwide and the kantons dont have varying laws and loopholes.

Pericles

03-14-2012, 07:13 PM

How are the gun laws "certainly worse in Switzerland then in NH" ? The entire population in Switzerland is armed to the teeth, historians say it's a big reason why they werent invaded by the Nazis in ww2.

One huge advantage it has over NH/America is that it's followed a neutral "RP foreign policy" for centuries. There is peace of mind knowing your country isnt involved in imperialistic mass murder, something noone in new hampshire can claim.

You fill out a form for the police to conduct a background check, then you get permission to buy up to 6 weapons. If you want more than 6, you fill out another form. The completed form, approved by the police, is required in order to make a purchase. Since the Schlengen treaty was entered into by Switzerland, no more privately owned automatic weapons. Private sales are also supposed to be checked for the buyer to be qualified to qwn, but everybody backdates the sales to reflect before that law took effect.

Nathan Hale

03-14-2012, 08:45 PM

I speak not of a retreat into a libertarian utopia, Mr. Hale. I speak merely of a well-thought-out geographical concentration of numbers. The town or county would remain itself, everyone would remain connected with the outside world, and life would go on as ever, it is just that government's size and intrusiveness would be going down, down, ever and inexorably down. No natives would be being abused. Tell me, was I abusing poor Romney supporters when I "physically took control" of my county GOP convention this weekend and, by "force of numbers," stole the victory away from them and gave it instead to Ron Paul?

You weren't, only because you weren't changing the municipal laws under which they live. But taking over a town, where people have to reside, and altering all the laws to a more libertarian standard is not good politics and invites BLOWBACK. Trust me on this and check out the FSP forums from the days of the state selection - we wrote VOLUMES about this and the conclusion was that it was all bad.

helmuth_hubener

03-14-2012, 09:48 PM

You weren't, only because you weren't changing the municipal laws under which they live. Ahh. But it was with the goal of altering the national laws under which they live. It forced them to send an alternate delegate to the National Convention who will oppose many/most of the laws they think they want. If we are successful as a whole, it will result in Ron Paul becoming the President, and as President he will do a great many things these people at my convention will HATE! And it will be even worse for them than if the town laws were to change in a way they hate, because now they will have to disassociate themselves from and move entirely out of the country, instead of just the town.

But it's nice that you do not think that I was abusing them by trying -- and succeeding -- in hijacking their convention process. Nor that we will be abusing them if we get Ron Paul the nomination against the clear wishes of the majority of Republican primary voters. I agree: we won't be.

But taking over a town, where people have to reside, and altering all the laws to a more libertarian standard is not good politics and invites BLOWBACK. Trust me on this and check out the FSP forums from the days of the state selection - we wrote VOLUMES about this and the conclusion was that it was all bad. Since this has never actually been done, it all sounds a bit theoretical to me. I shall thus, with respect, refrain from trusting you.

Parenthetically, I was, of course, on the FSP forums at the time you mention.

Keith and stuff

03-15-2012, 12:38 AM

Grafton, NH where the majority of the planning board are liberty lovers. This is the real deal folks that liberty lovers the world round dream about someday happening. Well, the dream is real and it's been happening in Grafton for sometime. Feel free to either continue to dream about it or join the real deal. It is up to you. Some people prefer masturbation to sex and that is OK.

NH: Graftonites thwart attempted coup?
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=25041.0

Grafton politicians have reportedly just attempted to overthrow the town's democratically-elected planning board. That board (could this be a coincidence?) is dominated by liberty-leaning officials. Town rulers allegedly wanted to replace it with an unelected group of "appointees." The public vote on this issue failed, but why is this the first we are hearing about it? Why doesn't Grafton activity play out more on the web forums? Details below, from a local liberty activist identifying himself as Jeremy. All e-mailed to me around Tuesday, March 13.

The next Grafton Planning Board meeting is Wednesday at 7pm. This will
be the first meeting of the still-elected Planning Board after the
statists in town had attempted to replace the Planning Board with one
appointed and controlled by them. The warrant article to do this, which
had been submitted by the Selectmen themselves and was particularly
strongly supported by Selectmen Dave Rienzo (who is also an Assistant
Attorney General for the State) was soundly defeated on Tuesday, 132 to
346.

The gallery can hold 15-20 people, and it would be awesome to pack the
room. Maybe open with a big round of applause for all the Planning
Board's done over the past few years to PROTECT people's property
rights, and the work the Chair and members did to successfully protect
the townspeople's right to elect its members...

osan

03-15-2012, 06:40 AM

Grafton, NH where the majority of the planning board are liberty lovers.

I was just tormenting myself by looking at a farm in Grafton - several hundred acres, but I've not seen a paycheck in 4+ years. Coincidentally, the ATM in my ass is also permanently broken. Now, if you know someone in need of a top drawer project manager w/MBA who would move me up there and could front enough for a down payment, I would go next week. Until then, I will remain here in WV, waiting for the foreclosure to come. Seriously, I can be there in two or three days, tops. Just need a little help to get myself righted again. No handouts sought here. I will, in fact, live under a bridge before I took one of those.

I'll not be holding my breath.

This is the real deal folks that liberty lovers the world round dream about someday happening. Well, the dream is real and it's been happening in Grafton for sometime. Feel free to either continue to dream about it or join the real deal. It is up to you. Some people prefer masturbation to sex and that is OK.

D00d, I was one of the first people to sign up for FSP, going on 11 or more years now. I support the idea strongly, but really... you need to work on your pitch as the tone of the above emphasized text is not the best way to go from a pure marketing perspective. Perception is a big part of success. Do as you please, of course.

Crotale

03-15-2012, 11:28 AM

How are the gun laws "certainly worse in Switzerland then in NH" ? The entire population in Switzerland is armed to the teeth, historians say it's a big reason why they werent invaded by the Nazis in ww2.

I'm not the most clued up on this subject so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that gun laws are more free in Switzerland than in New Hampshire. There are a lot of checks and conditions to go through in Switzerland and I believe your licence only lasts for about five years. After that you have to go over more checks and beaurocracy. Plus, you have to do compulsory national service in Switzerland.

I can only look on with jealousy really because here in England we have extremely draconian gun laws. And lots of knife crime to go with it. :(

Keith and stuff

03-15-2012, 06:50 PM

You mean union right? :confused:

Thanks.

I think I meant to type union, then thought about it and decided United States was better. Anyway, I guess, union, United States and state are all OK word choices. I changed it to US :)

Esoteric

03-15-2012, 06:52 PM

Love the username, OP. If you wanted to be even more esoteric, you should have chosen "TTAGGG" as your username.

Crotale

03-17-2012, 01:15 PM

Thanks.

I think I meant to type union, then thought about it and decided United States was better. Anyway, I guess, union, United States and state are all OK word choices. I changed it to US :)

Just checking, cause you had me confused there.