Prisons - Private, or State?

[Lishy]

We all know Paul wants to reduce conflicts to the state level as much as possible.

But because of what we've seen from the horrors of the Prison Industrial complex, should prisons be state-run, or private?

[Travlyr]

For profit prisons are scary creatures.

[tod evans]

Prisons should be staffed by jurors.

The "wars" on Americans would change their path.

Absolutely NO prison for profit!

[fisharmor]

No prisons.

It is not a coincidence that prisons as we know them only came into being at the same time as state-run schools, fiat central banking, and the constabulary.
Prisons are just as unnecessary as these other modern statist phenomena.

[Lishy]

Prisons should be staffed by jurors.

The "wars" on Americans would change their path.

Absolutely NO prison for profit!

In other words, state run, by the tax payers?


No prisons.

It is not a coincidence that prisons as we know them only came into being at the same time as state-run schools, fiat central banking, and the constabulary.
Prisons are just as unnecessary as these other modern statist phenomena.
So where do we put murderers, bank robbers, and other real criminals?

[fisharmor]

In other words, state run, by the tax payers?


So where do we put murderers, bank robbers, and other real criminals?

The whole premise behind our justice system is that the "real criminals" are primarily offending the state.
When one person murders another, the only reason the murderer is punished is because the state has dictated that this is not acceptable behavior.
The fact that there is a victim even involved is only included in order to sway a jury.

Prisons exist to punish people who break the state's dictation.
I have no interest in continuing this paradigm.

In a justice system that had any regard for the victim or the victim's family, some sort of restitution would be sought.
As usual, I preface this by saying that there is no way to fully compensate a family which has experienced a murder.
But we could try.

And spending tens of thousands of dollars a year in stolen money to have a murderer sit in a cell watching cable between bouts of man rape isn't exactly in line with that idea.
I'm willing to bet that if you stopped and thought "what can I make a murderer do in light of the debt he is in to a victim's family", sitting around in a cell isn't on the list.

[tod evans]

In other words, state run, by the tax payers?


If there are to be prisons (and I think some people should be locked up) then the community where the crimes took place should be instrumental in enforcing the imprisonment.

When citizens have a vested interest in the "justice system" things will quickly become more just.

[green73]

No state

https://www.google.com/search?q=hans+hermann+hoppe

[tod evans]

We all know Paul wants to reduce conflicts to the state level as much as possible.

But because of what we've seen from the horrors of the Prison Industrial complex, should prisons be state-run, or private?

You're poking around the edges of our biggest domestic monster the "justice system" (pronounced just-us)

In order to even begin to address the many failures the "system" needs to be viewed in its entirety, Travlyr (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?365928-Courts-Jury-s-and-Plea-Bargains-The-bastardization-of-the-legal-system) suggests. as does Dr. Paul returning to the constitution....This would be a good start!

Some of the best legal minds have manipulated the "system" over the last two centuries to the point that the just-us system rarely benefits society and always benefits members of the system.

[Conza88]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzYJYSm-MfI

[donnay]

When prisons are privatized it behooves the owners to make sure their prisons are occupied with good little workers slaves to make them rich! That's why they are in-bed with government, because they know government can make that happen.

Ayn Rand said it best:

"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

[rpwi]

I also don't like the idea of private run prisons. Once you sign the contract with Prison Corp...where is the accountability? If Prison corp has overcrowded prisons and inhumane conditions do we just rip up the contract and send the prisoners to Acme Prisons? Where is the incentive for Prison companies to offer a clean, safe environment with adequate medical support...while maximizing profits to shareholders? What powers would guards have and how would they be held accountable? For the government oversight required to ensure privately run prisons, it would just be more practical IMO to maintain public prisons.

The capitalist system works well in many cases...but I don't think this is one of them.

Granted...the current public system is messed up. In some places it costs 47k per year to house a prisoner. In many cases prisoners have to suffer from second hand smoke, sensory deprivation and the inability to sleep in a quite environment. Yet outside of the prison system, sensory deprivation and sleep deprivation are widely considered to be forms of torture. In many cases the prisons are very dirty and it is not uncommon for prisoners to pick up staph infections.

The proper cure is #1...make sure people who don't belong in prison aren't there. Why do we send non-violent drug dealers there? Why send file sharers there? I had a friend that was sent to a military prison for refusing to serve in Iraq...huge waste. He later had to server prison in Wisconsin because god forbid he drove without a drivers license. In Wisconsin...if you drive 75 MPH in a vacant country road where the speed limit is 55 MPH..and do this twice...you lose your license. Need to get to work? Tough and if you do drive without a license you go to jail. Of course the drunk drivers are still on the road because they have their occupational licenses...

The next best cure is proper administration. Intelligent corrections officers need to be appointed that are vigilant in preventing abuses and maintaining an efficient well-run system. Not a great solution...but better than private run prisons.

[eduardo89]

So where do we put murderers,

Executed.


bank robbers, and other real criminals?

Working in the fields and coal mines.