High-end madam busted for running upper East Side brothel is a suburban mom with four chil

[donnay]

High-end madam busted for running upper East Side brothel
is a suburban mom with four children
Arrest was culmination of five-year investigation by Manhattan DA's office

By Melissa Grace , Rocco Parascandola AND Janon Fisher / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Monday, March 5, 2012, 5:55 PM
Updated: Wednesday, March 7, 2012, 9:56 AM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1033844.1331074288!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg



A high-end madam who boasted she used cops as security and made millions by peddling flesh — including underage girls — to rich and powerful clients has been busted after a five-year probe, prosecutors said.

The Manhattan district attorney’s office indicted petite, blond, green-eyed Anna Gristina, 44, in a corruption investigation that amassed 50 to 100 hours of audio and video recordings, some showing prostitutes doing the deed, according to court records.

NOTORIOUS NEW YORK CITY BROTHELS

“We have had at least one eyewitness account of someone that has been obviously present for a sexual encounter arranged by (Gristina) for one of her clients in which minors were involved in the encounter,” Assistant District Attorney Charles Linehan said at her Feb. 23 arraignment.

Prosecutors said they caught Gristina, a suburban mom with four children, boasting that she had collaborators in law enforcement who were willing to tip her off if investigators were closing in on her.

PHOTOS: NOTORIOUS MADAMS

She was recorded bragging that contacts were “poised to help her out, to let her know if there is trouble on the front that she needs to be concerned about, particularly back during the Eliot Spitzer investigation,” Linehan said.

The DA’s unit on official corruption, which usually investigates crooked cops and dirty public officials, brought the potentially explosive investigation to an end while Gristina was meeting with a partner — who worked at investment banking firm Morgan Stanley — and discussing expanding her business.

Gristina, also known as Anna Scotland, apparently made a fortune from her prostitution ring and amassed a slew of high-powered contacts.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan-madam-busted-running-upper-east-side-brothel-catering-wealthy-clients-court-records-article-1.1033622#ixzz1oRdiuWm7

[donnay]

New York Prostitution Ring Provided Minors For Wealthy Elitists
http://www.infowars.com/new-york-prostitution-ring-provided-minors-for-wealthy-elitists/

Clients included bankers, politicians, lawyers

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Wednesday, March 7, 2012

Yet another elitist pedophile ring has been exposed with the bust of 44-year-old mother of four Anna Gristina, charged with running a prostitution ring out of a New York apartment that relied on police protection to provide wealthy clients with minors for sexual encounters.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WRnJzuqvjc4

Gristina’s list of customers “included powerful politicians, top-law enforcement, influential lawyers, bankers, entertainment execs and Fortune 500 businessmen, as well as several ultra-wealthy European clients,” reports the New York Post.

Some of the sexual encounters included the involvement of children, according to Manhattan Assistant DA Charles Linehan.

For years we have documented the fact that global pedophile rings are operated primarily due to demand from rich elitists in positions of power. Cases in Portugal, Austria, France, Chile, Belgium, and Bosnia have all pointed to the involvement of prominent individuals in sex rings, sadomasochistic orgies and even murder.

In almost every case of human trafficking for child sex slavery, court proceedings get shut down or diverted when a clear connection to the elite arises.

In the mid 1990′s, convicted child rapist Marc Dutroux built a secret prison cell in his Charleroi basement where he kept abducted young girls hostage at the behest of what he called “a big crime ring,” which in the 2004 court case was thought by many to encompass some of Belgium’s top politicians, judges and policemen. The reason why it took so long to apprehend Dutroux was that he was being legally protected by these same individuals.

Material witnesses at the trial described “child sex parties involving judges, politicians, bankers and members of the royal family.” Victims that managed to survive (most were butchered snuff style after being raped) verified the claims.

Police actually visited Dutroux’s home and heard the cries of help from children concealed in his basement yet believed Dutroux’s explanation that the sounds were coming from kids playing in the street.

Dutroux was eventually convicted for his role in the pedophile ring but the involvement of the country’s elite was never properly investigated.

The more recent scandal involving Jerry Sandusky also led to rumors that Sandusky had “pimped out” boys to rich donors.

As we have documented, almost every major pedophile network that has come to public knowledge has included tentacles that stretch high into the upper echelons of the global power structure.

On June 29 1989, the Washington Times’ Paul M. Rodriguez and George Archibald reported on a Washington D.C. prostitution ring that had intimate connections with the White House all the way up to President George H.W. Bush. Male prostitutes had been given access to the White House and the article also cited evidence of “abduction and use of minors for sexual perversion.”

In July 1990, a Nebraska Grand Jury was convened to hear allegations that Lawrence “Larry” King, then manager of the Franklin Community Federal Credit Union and a rising Republican Party star, along with Washington lobbyists, had set up a child prostitution ring in which minors were transported around the country and forced to have sex with King, other top officials, and according to victims who some allege were later harassed into recanting, then-Vice-President Bush.

The Grand Jury dismissed the case as a hoax but former Nebraska State Senator John DeCamp later investigated the claims and was horrified to learn that they were indeed legitimate.

The operators of such pedophile and prostitution rings are routinely silenced in one way or another to prevent their client list from ever becoming public.

Let’s hope that Anna Gristina doesn’t meet the same fate as DC Madam Deborah Jeane Palfrey, who after threatening to expose her client list was found dead in an alleged “suicide,” despite the fact that Palfrey had complained of a contract being out on her life and had appeared on the Alex Jones Show just two months before to assert that she would never kill herself.

[HOLLYWOOD]

DC Madame = Manhattan Soccer Mom

Finale = Suicide in the Tool Shed out back.

PS: I hope she has backup copies of her client lists somewhere to protect her life.


this is what it has become: A 5 Year undercover investigation... what did that cost?

[John F Kennedy III]

Wow.

[bolil]

Soooooo, they got the madame... what about the "high powered" clientele?
...pimping kids ain't like using drugs so I guess the customers will get a pass.

[Philhelm]

I want the names of those in the ruling class that were involved with this. I demand names! And redress!

[azxd]

The great divide within justice.

[dannno]

So some dude in his basement has a picture of a partially nude 17 year old chick on his computer and he goes to prison for years for laws made by people who actually have sex with underage girls.

[dannno]

This was alluded to in the film "Eyes Wide Shut", which is about a wealthy doctor who comes upon some secret Illuminati sex rituals as well as a 15 year old girl involved in prostitution with very high-end clientele.

Stanley Kubrick's final film, he died less than a week before its release. It is believed by many including myself that he may have been killed and his death from natural causes a cover-up, another topic that the film itself delves into.

Genius.

[flightlesskiwi]

Soooooo, they got the madame... what about the "high powered" clientele?
...pimping kids ain't like using drugs so I guess the customers will get a pass.

^&%ing true.

makes my blood boil.

[Acala]

Of course just because the DA "says" something doesn't make it true. They are among the biggest liars on the face of the planet, often motivated by political aspirations.

[WilliamC]

I wonder if she used any of her own daughters as resources.

[HOLLYWOOD]

This was alluded to in the film "Eyes Wide Shut", which is about a wealthy doctor who comes upon some secret Illuminati sex rituals as well as a 15 year old girl involved in prostitution with very high-end clientele.

Stanley Kubrick's final film, he died less than a week before its release. It is believed by many including myself that he may have been killed and his death from natural causes a cover-up, another topic that the film itself delves into.

Genius.That's exactly what I thought @ first... they are busting a branch of EYES WIDE SHUT. If you screw with us... it's out to the tool shed and get the DC Madame treatment.

[Anti Federalist]

Why is it illegal to pay for sex, unless you film it?

[bolil]

We want to know who the customers are. Justice doesn't even get miscarried anymore, fucking abortion of justice.

[dannno]

Why is it illegal to pay for sex, unless you film it?

Because people who don't get enough sex are easier to control.

[bolil]

/\ aint that the truth.

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeYyzoONK6U

[donnay]

Why is it illegal to pay for sex, unless you film it?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bc/8mm-film-poster.jpg/220px-8mm-film-poster.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bc/8mm-film-poster.jpg/220px-8mm-film-poster.jpg

That was one of the very few movies that I have watched that actually "affected" me.

I felt physically dirty after watching that movie.

[specialK]

Does anyone know her web site address(es)? I don't see anything published there.

[Anti Federalist]

Rev9 Fan Club

Eduardo89 Fan Club

Danke Fan Club



Pffft...Anti Federalist Fan Club???

Not bloody likely. :(

[FindLiberty]

Wait, I need to see the PROOF ...before I can decide if this is a real crime, or not.

"50 to 100 hours of audio and video recordings, some showing prostitutes doing the deed"

[pcosmar]

Arrest was culmination of five-year investigation by Manhattan DA's office

/ bends down,,writes in the dust

Where are the "High End Clients" that were having sex with minors.. ?

Franklin coverup

[heavenlyboy34]

This was alluded to in the film "Eyes Wide Shut", which is about a wealthy doctor who comes upon some secret Illuminati sex rituals as well as a 15 year old girl involved in prostitution with very high-end clientele.

Stanley Kubrick's final film, he died less than a week before its release. It is believed by many including myself that he may have been killed and his death from natural causes a cover-up, another topic that the film itself delves into.

Genius.
I've seen that film a few times, but never made that connection. Interesting-especially if it turns out to be true.

[heavenlyboy34]

Pffft...Anti Federalist Fan Club???

Not bloody likely. :(
I'd join that club. :cool::toady:

[donnay]

Pffft...Anti Federalist Fan Club???

Not bloody likely. :(

When you get banned I will post your name too! I posted their names in solidarity! I was against their banning and that was my way of protesting!

[JorgeStevenson]

Why is it illegal to pay for sex, unless you film it?

The "toobz or it didn't happen" law

[Danke]

Gristina’s list of customers...

She kept a list?!?!?! :toady:

[heavenlyboy34]

When you get banned I will post your name too! I posted their names in solidarity! I was against their banning and that was my way of protesting!
+1

[donnay]

She kept a list?!?!?! :toady:

Most women I know keep lists!

[pcosmar]

Most women I know keep lists!

a...,m ,,,,, hmmm


(don't even go there)

nvm

[Anti Federalist]

Most women I know keep lists!


a...,m ,,,,, hmmm


(don't even go there)

nvm

Ayup...

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b72b69e20133f46957d5970b-320wi

[donnay]

Ayup...

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b72b69e20133f46957d5970b-320wi


What?!? You guys only think Santa keeps a list? :p

[pcosmar]

What?!? You guys only think Santa keeps a list? :p

Nope,,
Old married guy.. Third husband.

She has discussed the "List".

I also have a stepdaughter,,,,, no further comment.

[dannno]

Ya, womenz be sleeping with lots of dudes.

A few guys can get away with getting with lots of chicks, not as many though.

[camp_steveo]

I don't think prostitution is a crime, but if we are talking about children that is.

[dannno]

I don't think prostitution is a crime, but if we are talking about children that is.

I don't think we are talking about children, I think we are talking about elderly adolescents.

[pcosmar]

I don't think we are talking about children, I think we are talking about elderly adolescents.

I thought we were talking about the clients list.

Surely 5 years of investigation would have information on who exactly was cumming and going.

[Anti Federalist]

I thought we were talking about the clients list.

Surely 5 years of investigation would have information on who exactly was cumming and going.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTH9DuAw-Pwk-lKNTKiDdRtJ6OYddR0SXLtH5rUpuyg27kT6zniYyQ-CdbxVw

[dannno]

I thought we were talking about the clients list.

Surely 5 years of investigation would have information on who exactly was cumming and going.

Well I was pissed of the other day when my local paper featured four completely innocent people's pictures plastered up for being apart of a craigslist prostitution bust.

Although I am really curious which politicians were using the service and would much rather see their pictures plastered up in the paper than some random dudes from my town, I don't think what they were doing is inherently wrong.

[onlyrp]

High-end madam busted for running upper East Side brothel
is a suburban mom with four children

what's the "problem" here? Is government interfering with free trade? Are you ageist? Are you against prostitution?

[donnay]

what's the "problem" here? Is government interfering with free trade? Are you ageist? Are you against prostitution?

I have no problem with prostitution so long as I don't catch my husband calling one! [s/]

All kidding set aside. I have no problem with independent women who want to sell their bodies--that is their business. However, I have a REAL problem with a madam selling the services of minors to wealthy clienteles.

[onlyrp]

I have no problem with prostitution so long as I don't catch my husband calling one! [s/]

All kidding set aside. I have no problem with independent women who want to sell their bodies--that is their business. However, I have a REAL problem with a madam selling the services of minors to wealthy clienteles.

are you automatically assuming the minors didn't consent, or do you agree with our age discrimination laws that prohibit minors from consenting?

[Danke]

I have no problem with prostitution so long as I don't catch my husband calling one! [s/]


I don't think you have to worry about that.

[pcosmar]

are you automatically assuming the minors didn't consent, or do you agree with our age discrimination laws that prohibit minors from consenting?
Are you defending pedophiles,, or just trolling again?

[donnay]

are you automatically assuming the minors didn't consent, or do you agree with our age discrimination laws that prohibit minors from consenting?

So what age would be okay with you?

Why am I getting chills down my spine that you even thought to ask that question?

[Anti Federalist]

Are you defending pedophiles,, or just trolling again?

Ah, Josh_LA.

I see we meet again.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think you have to worry about that.

I know there's some smart ass message hidden there, but, she really doesn't.

[Danke]

I know there's some smart ass message hidden there, but, she really doesn't.

DADT.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7atrL4cLLII/T0t0poztcdI/AAAAAAAAOsU/TFbOetLF0gk/s1600/shhhimage.jpg

[CaptainAmerica]

Makes me sick what the government gets away with. I'm sure the client list involves a whole lot of elected representatives.

[donnay]

Makes me sick what the government gets away with. I'm sure the client list involves a whole lot of elected representatives.

Just like the DC Madam's list probably involved. But she hung herself <wink-wink> and now we will never know.

[Anti Federalist]

DADT.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7atrL4cLLII/T0t0poztcdI/AAAAAAAAOsU/TFbOetLF0gk/s1600/shhhimage.jpg

xx

[Danke]

xx

Keep it classy. Reported.

[donnay]

Keep it classy. Reported.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cF2piwjYQ

[mport1]

Legalize prostitution and all other non-violent "crimes." That is all.

[James Madison]

Having as much sex as possible: perfectly fine.
Getting paid to have sex on the internet: perfectly fine.
Prostitution: illegal.

The government makes prostitution illegal because they can't regulate the exchange of currency and get 'their fair share' of the profit.

[mport1]

The government makes prostitution illegal because they can't regulate the exchange of currency and get 'their fair share' of the profit.

They could if they wanted to. The currently regulate and steal money from ("tax") legal brothels. They do the same with casinos.

[James Madison]

They could if they wanted to. The currently regulate and steal money from ("tax") legal brothels. They do the same with casinos.

I mean they can't regulate the under the table stuff that goes on in the streets. If they could it'd be legal in a heartbeat.

[VBRonPaulFan]

So some dude in his basement has a picture of a partially nude 17 year old chick on his computer and he goes to prison for years for laws made by people who actually have sex with underage girls.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/3/23/129138647285799213.jpg

[na_golfball]

I mean they can't regulate the under the table stuff that goes on in the streets. If they could it'd be legal in a heartbeat.

Why not require prostitutes to get a license. They could make some money that way.

[onlyrp]

Legalize prostitution and all other non-violent "crimes." That is all.

Does that include statutory rape, drunk driving, underage drinking, underage driving?

[onlyrp]

Are you defending pedophiles,, or just trolling again?

what is it about pedophilia that violates non-aggression, "only punish crimes that harm people", Constitution, or whatever principles you stand for?

[onlyrp]

So what age would be okay with you?

Why am I getting chills down my spine that you even thought to ask that question?

If I said under 18, you'll call me a pedophile, if I said over 18, you'll call me a Fascist. You're getting chills because you know there's something in your heart that tells you pedophilia is wrong, but you can't defend it based on the principles people espouse to be their sole or primary guidance on law or morality, namely, the Constitution, non-aggression axiom, or for some, the Bible. We both know that maturity varies by person, and there's no perfect reason why there should be a cut off point at any number.

[WilliamC]

what is it about pedophilia that violates non-aggression, "only punish crimes that harm people", Constitution, or whatever principles you stand for?

Simple. If a pedophile f's with my children I'll kill them.

The law and the courts can go to hell, I'll do it myself.

That's why pedophilia violates the non-aggression principal, 'cause it leads to pedophiles getting killed.

[WilliamC]

If I said under 18, you'll call me a pedophile, if I said over 18, you'll call me a Fascist. You're getting chills because you know there's something in your heart that tells you pedophilia is wrong, but you can't defend it based on the principles people espouse to be their sole or primary guidance on law or morality, namely, the Constitution, non-aggression axiom, or for some, the Bible. We both know that maturity varies by person, and there's no perfect reason why there should be a cut off point at any number.

Which is why juries should always have the final say in trials.

A 19 year old having consensual relations with a 17 year old or pre-teens playing with each other is not equal to an adult preying on a child, and sometimes human judgement is required to make a final call.

Not a perfect system, but there is no perfect justice.

But if a pedophile messes with my kids they won't need to worry about a jury, I'll kill them myself and deal with the consenquences.

But if I were to catch, say, my teen-age daughter with a near-age male friend that isn't in any way the same thing.

Nor is children playing with each other even if they get curious so long as there is no bullying or violence going on.

Pedophilia is a loaded word and pretty distinctly means adults physically violating sexually immature children and is never a consensual act, and again depending on specific circumstances should lead to immediate termination of the pedophile.

Like, natural selection in action.

[pcosmar]

<snip>

Back to back troll posts. And yes,, I have observed your posting history for some time.

I would hope that the intelligent members of the forum just stop responding to your posts, as they are nothing but argumentative and meant to incite a reaction.

Nothing of substance worthy of response.

[flightlesskiwi]

I know there's some smart ass message hidden there, but, she really doesn't.

i don't think you give donnay enough credit. she's a brilliant lady. now i haz the sad.

[eduardo89]

i don't think you give donnay enough credit. she's a brilliant lady. now i haz the sad.

I agree, donnay is by far the coolest female poster on here, no other woman here even comes close :p (not including the classy ladies on chat of course)

She's definitely got the best signature too ;)


edit: ok maybe there's one other female RPFer who is pretty awesome as well.

[ZenBowman]

The government makes prostitution illegal because they can't regulate the exchange of currency and get 'their fair share' of the profit.

They could easily do so, its already being done in the Netherlands.

Face it, the public support for legalized prostitution is just not there. We haven't even got to a point where over 50% of the country is okay with marijuana legalization. Hell, it was even voted down in California, by the voters. There's a long way to go.

[ZenBowman]

I mean they can't regulate the under the table stuff that goes on in the streets. If they could it'd be legal in a heartbeat.

They could still keep that illegal, while allowing legalized taxed and regulated prostitution. That's what they do with casinos. They cannot regulate basement gambling, but they still allow casinos.

At some point we will have legalized prostitution as well, you have to change the minds of the people first.

[Anti Federalist]

i don't think you give donnay enough credit. she's a brilliant lady. now i haz the sad.

I think you read me wrong.

I meant she never has any reason to worry about me buying a prostitute.

[oyarde]

So what age would be okay with you?

Why am I getting chills down my spine that you even thought to ask that question? That age thing is probably a subject nobody would agree on . I was paying taxes at 15 ,buying illegal cigarettes ( that was 16 at the time ) in the Army at 17 , could not vote until 18 ( a recent development at the time , not long before that it was 21 ) and spent a few years overseas before I could buy a beer legally in many states. Naturally , some of that is ridiculous...

[oyarde]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cF2piwjYQ LOL @ DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION.

[oyarde]

[QUOTE=HOLLYWOOD;4258727]DC Madame = Manhattan Soccer Mom

Finale = Suicide in the Tool Shed out back.

PS: I hope she has backup copies of her client lists somewhere to protect her life.


this is what it has become: A 5 Year undercover investigation... what did that cost?[/QU I too am very curious as to how much this five year investigation cost .

[donnay]

That age thing is probably a subject nobody would agree on . I was paying taxes at 15 ,buying illegal cigarettes ( that was 16 at the time ) in the Army at 17 , could not vote until 18 ( a recent development at the time , not long before that it was 21 ) and spent a few years oversea before I could buy a beer legally in many states. Naturally , some of that is ridiculous...

You're absolutely right. There are some 20, 30 and 40 year old people who seriously lack maturity and responsibility as well. But there are some real sickos out there that lust after children and I look at children under 13. It is incubate upon the parents to protect their children, I do not think it is the states duty.

[dannno]

Pedophilia is a disgusting, depraved act because kids are not mature enough to make decisions about sexuality, especially when someone older than them whose sexuality is developed and is instigating it. The child doesn't understand it and it isn't apart of their being that is developed yet.

Adolescents, on the other hand, they are already fucking. There is no logical reason why a 15 year old girl has already had sex with like 50 guys at her school, has sex all the time and she lures some guy in his early 20s because she is sick of "dumb high school boys" who don't have as much experience as she does... Why should the guy in his early 20s go to jail?? Who on earth is he hurting? This girl has already had sex with dozens of guys!! She might look older than her age, she might be the only underage girl he pursues for the rest of his life, and maybe it only happened because she pursued him first.

Now compare that to an adult having sex with an 8 year old. How the FUCK did society come to the point where the word "pedophilia" can describe both of these situations which are completely polar opposites?

[dannno]

You're absolutely right. There are some 20, 30 and 40 year old people who seriously lack maturity and responsibility as well. But there are some real sickos out there that lust after children and I look at children under 13. It is incubate upon the parents to protect their children, I do not think it is the states duty.

These underage prostitutes were probably at least 15, but if they were under 15 then, well, I agree we have a problem here..

But that's my whole point, society doesn't distinguish between pedophilia and hebephilia, which are completely different..

[heavenlyboy34]

When you get banned I will post your name too! I posted their names in solidarity! I was against their banning and that was my way of protesting!
I've been temp-banned once...do I get a fan club or do I have to wait for the next ban? /curious

[heavenlyboy34]

I agree, donnay is by far the coolest female poster on here, no other woman here even comes close :p (not including the classy ladies on chat of course)

She's definitely got the best signature too ;)


edit: ok maybe there's one other female RPFer who is pretty awesome as well.
Melissa? AmyPi? ;)

[pcosmar]

Melissa? AmyPi? ;)

Meatwasp, angelatc, Liberty Eagle, Nicki, kiwi etc.etc. etc.
We got great women.

and no,,, I ain't flirtin'
I love them all.. ;)

[dannno]

I love them all.. ;)


......at the same time!!

[donnay]

I've been temp-banned once...do I get a fan club or do I have to wait for the next ban? /curious

Oh I didn't know that. It has to be one that I witness and personal think is wrong. ;)

[onlyrp]

Simple. If a pedophile f's with my children I'll kill them.

The law and the courts can go to hell, I'll do it myself.

That's why pedophilia violates the non-aggression principal, 'cause it leads to pedophiles getting killed.

I'm sure you apply this principle to every other law and allow others to do the same back.

[WilliamC]

I'm sure you apply this principle to every other law and allow others to do the same back.

It's simple reality. We are all controlled only by our choice to behave ourselves at any given time.

"I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
Robert A. Heinlein

[onlyrp]

It's simple reality. We are all controlled only by our choice to behave ourselves at any given time.

"I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
Robert A. Heinlein

I understand that's reality, which is why I don't bother trying to justify laws based solely on a Bible, Constitution, non-agression or whatever nobler principle to convince somebody who chooses to ignore reality.

[WilliamC]

I understand that's reality, which is why I don't bother trying to justify laws based solely on a Bible, Constitution, non-agression or whatever nobler principle to convince somebody who chooses to ignore reality.

"Never appeal to a man's "better nature." He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage."

and

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

are pretty good too, as is

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."

Robert Heinlein had things pretty well figured out.

[Revolution9]

If I said under 18, you'll call me a pedophile, if I said over 18, you'll call me a Fascist. You're getting chills because you know there's something in your heart that tells you pedophilia is wrong, but you can't defend it based on the principles people espouse to be their sole or primary guidance on law or morality, namely, the Constitution, non-aggression axiom, or for some, the Bible. We both know that maturity varies by person, and there's no perfect reason why there should be a cut off point at any number.

Howzabout I just kick their ass for messing with innocence for perverse reasons. That is good enough for me and I don't need no frikkin' Constitution, warrant or badge. Done it before and will do it again. My most glorious moment of youth was kicking a pimp up four stars on Hollywood Boulevard for sticking a magnum .44 in kids faces telling them he would protect them if they worked for him. If they wanted to hustle then fine..their body, their money..but this pimping recruitment was something I had to do something about.

Rev9

[oyarde]

I think you read me wrong.

I meant she never has any reason to worry about me buying a prostitute.
I AM SURE SHE KNOWS THAT .

[oyarde]

Meatwasp, angelatc, Liberty Eagle, Nicki, kiwi etc.etc. etc.
We got great women.

and no,,, I ain't flirtin'
I love them all.. ;) They are fantastic, so is the one I have , I am a lucky man and know it .

[oyarde]

I do miss Amy , the way she can paint a picture with words , that I can see, and make me laugh ...

[PierzStyx]

I want the names of those in the ruling class that were involved with this. I demand names! And redress!

If my redress you mean Madame Soccer Mom and her elitist followers meet Madame Guillotine, I am right there with you.

[PierzStyx]

......at the same time!!

Bow-chicka-wow-wow