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progressiveforpaul
03-06-2012, 10:52 PM
It's not about denial.
It's not about delegates.
It's about a deal.
Ron Paul's end game?
You heard it here first:

http://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2012/03/ron-pauls-end-game.html

azxd
03-07-2012, 01:46 AM
An interesting perspective ... Unable to secure the nomination ... Trading his delegates for a guaranteed Treasury position ... Hmmm.

Can we do a write in to end the World :rolleyes:

TheTexan
03-07-2012, 01:50 AM
I'll make a deal. Allow me to secede in peace, and I'll let the rest of the country fall to shit in peace.

azxd
03-07-2012, 01:52 AM
I see you and raise you a World.

kylejack
03-07-2012, 01:53 AM
Hm, no. Third party run.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
03-07-2012, 01:54 AM
How about Ron give up his delegates in exchange for a guarantee that Texas becomes it's own Republic and we all move there.

Anti Federalist
03-07-2012, 01:55 AM
How about Ron give up his delegates in exchange for a guarantee that Texas becomes it's own Republic and we all move there.

Pfffffft...not on your life.

If I owned Hell and Texas, I'd rent Texas and live in Hell.

kylejack
03-07-2012, 01:56 AM
Pfffffft...not on your life.

If I owned Hell and Texas, I'd rent Texas and live in Hell.
"You may all go to Hell. I'm going to Texas."
-Davy Crockett, upon losing re-election in Tennessee

emazur
03-07-2012, 02:00 AM
Treasury Secretary can be fired by the President (see Paul O'Neill under Bush Jr.). Paul would be a constant thorn in Romney's side. Do the math.

Feeding the Abscess
03-07-2012, 02:01 AM
In all honesty, I'd be perfectly content with Ron Paul deciding to shoot from the hip like he did in 2007/08 and at various times this cycle in debates and interviews.

Strike the root, Ron. Then head home and spend the rest of your days with your wife and family. If you decide to write a few more books and make some public appearances, I'd be delighted to absorb your contributions to the hope of a peaceful future.

Mark37snj
03-07-2012, 02:03 AM
It IS about the Delegates :D:D Delegates :D:D Delegates :D:D We have been doing great so far. Tomorrow or so we should get a better idea of how we did tonight. And what the MSM says about delegates only matters in the first round. If we get to the second round it's a whole new ball game. ;)

speciallyblend
03-07-2012, 03:32 AM
gary johnson 2012 is my plan

speciallyblend
03-07-2012, 03:33 AM
It IS about the Delegates :D:D Delegates :D:D Delegates :D:D We have been doing great so far. Tomorrow or so we should get a better idea of how we did tonight. And what the MSM says about delegates only matters in the first round. If we get to the second round it's a whole new ball game. ;)

there will not be a brokered convention, but we can all have pipe dreams.

3kgt
03-07-2012, 03:37 AM
He's trying to get traffic to his stupid blog and talking about a third party run at the same time, epic fail

Mark37snj
03-07-2012, 04:03 AM
there will not be a brokered convention, but we can all have pipe dreams.

Oh, so plz enlighten us as to what is really going on. Seriously, so many people claim this and that and so many more claim it ain't so. I would like to know where you think we really stand.

speciallyblend
03-07-2012, 04:34 AM
Oh, so plz enlighten us as to what is really going on. Seriously, so many people claim this and that and so many more claim it ain't so. I would like to know where you think we really stand.

status quo gop will not allow a brokered convention, not all delegates are bound so yes romney/santorum/newt will make sure they stop a brokered convention by making sure they nominate Romney in first vote. All Romney has to do is offer vp spot to santorum/newt and vote is over no second vote period. It is that simple, but we can all dream until convention, dream away! Your dealing with a corrupt gop. They are not going to allow it!

cindy25
03-07-2012, 04:38 AM
1) promises of cabinet posts are not binding, and easy to sabotage. (wink, wink nod nod,and the senate votes no)
2) cabinet secs can be fired, and Ron could not work for anyone. VP, maybe-that's different.

Mark37snj
03-07-2012, 04:38 AM
status quo gop will not allow a brokered convention, not all delegates are bound so yes romney/santorum/newt will make sure they stop a brokered convention by making sure they nominate Romney in first vote. All Romney has to do is offer vp spot to santorum/newt and vote is over no second vote period. It is that simple, but we can all dream until convention, dream away! Your dealing with a corrupt gop. They are not going to allow it!

Bound delegates cannot switch votes no matter what Santorum or Newt says. They are bound by their states rules. The only way would be for Santorum and Newt to drop out of the race so Romeny can lock up enough delegates before the convention. All unbound delegates vote for who they want, they can tell Santorum and Newt to go scratch.

EDIT: It comes down to numbers. There are about 550 unbound delegates apportioned in various ways. Can we keep Romeny from the magic number in the first round? That depends on how the unbounds vote or if any others drop out. I don't think they will because if it is just Paul and Romeny, Paul would have a good chance of catching fire, they won't risk that.

cindy25
03-07-2012, 04:41 AM
status quo gop will not allow a brokered convention, not all delegates are bound so yes romney/santorum/newt will make sure they stop a brokered convention by making sure they nominate Romney in first vote. All Romney has to do is offer vp spot to santorum/newt and vote is over no second vote period. It is that simple, but we can all dream until convention, dream away! Your dealing with a corrupt gop. They are not going to allow it!

if Ron already has a backup ballot line, and the elite KNOW that Romney would be the captain of the titanic they would not be on board.
these people are corrupt, and evil but they are not stupid.

Liberty74
03-07-2012, 04:49 AM
Hm, no. Third party run.

I have said this from the very beginning. Many, as usual, refused to listened thinking the GOP would actually let Ron Paul win a state which you, I and they knew it would create momentum. I have also never bought into the delegate game BS strategy because that in itself was a sign of defeat.

The country is screwed. We are screwed.

It's over...

Liberty74
03-07-2012, 04:56 AM
status quo gop will not allow a brokered convention, not all delegates are bound so yes romney/santorum/newt will make sure they stop a brokered convention by making sure they nominate Romney in first vote. All Romney has to do is offer vp spot to santorum/newt and vote is over no second vote period. It is that simple, but we can all dream until convention, dream away! Your dealing with a corrupt gop. They are not going to allow it!

It's a two party criminal system. Fighting from within is not the route to take as many believe. Because the GOP (Rush, Beck, Hannity, Fox, establishment, etc.) is not going to let the people speak. They know Ron Paul is the real mccoy and too much power is at stake to let Ron win.

We take over the Independent Party because that is where 30-35% of the people are registered as such. We give the bird to the Dems. We give the bird to the Reps. Game on bitches. We win? Probably not (unless there is runaway inflation, another war, economic collapse, etc.). But at least we are giving the people a freaking real choice to vote for in November. Heck, it doesn't even have to Paul on the ticket for me. Andrew Napolitano would suit just fine.

speciallyblend
03-07-2012, 05:12 AM
Bound delegates cannot switch votes no matter what Santorum or Newt says. They are bound by their states rules. The only way would be for Santorum and Newt to drop out of the race so Romeny can lock up enough delegates before the convention. All unbound delegates vote for who they want, they can tell Santorum and Newt to go scratch.

EDIT: It comes down to numbers. There are about 550 unbound delegates apportioned in various ways. Can we keep Romeny from the magic number in the first round? That depends on how the unbounds vote or if any others drop out. I don't think they will because if it is just Paul and Romeny, Paul would have a good chance of catching fire, they won't risk that.

I clearly stated in my post above that i was talking about unbound delegates. It will be over in the first vote as the gop will make sure of it!
not all delegates are bound that is the point. All they have to do is make a deal and vote 1st round over. yes there are some bound delegates but there are also plenty of unbound delegates as well. I am sure enough to win it for romney if santorum or newt encourage them plus they(gop est) can change the rules as well and unbound them! There will be plenty of unbound delegates for santorum and newt in the first round that santorum and newt would encourage them to vote romney for a deal! romney/santorum is what it is going to look like unless ron paul can win a bunch of states.

bottom line the gop est will not allow a brokered convention to happen especially if they see ron paul has a chance. They will just change the rules which they can!

speciallyblend
03-07-2012, 05:18 AM
status quo gop will not allow a brokered convention, not all delegates are bound so yes romney/santorum/newt will make sure they stop a brokered convention by making sure they nominate Romney in first vote. All Romney has to do is offer vp spot to santorum/newt and vote is over no second vote period. It is that simple, but we can all dream until convention, dream away! Your dealing with a corrupt gop. They are not going to allow it!

not all delegates are bound in the first round and that includes santorum and newt delegates.

Mark37snj
03-07-2012, 05:23 AM
Hence the question is...How many delegates that are appointed to Newt, Santorum, and Romney as well as the unbound delegates are Paul supporters who won't vote for anyone but Paul given the chance?

EDIT: A canidate cannot just give his delegates to another canidate. You can say they are corrupt and they will try, but if they do they will be in some serious trouble. Changing the rules at the convention to put the fix in, lol, I would like to see them try it.

speciallyblend
03-07-2012, 05:38 AM
Hence the question is...How many delegates that are appointed to Newt, Santorum, and Romney as well as the unbound delegates are Paul supporters who won't vote for anyone but Paul given the chance?

EDIT: A canidate cannot just give his delegates to another canidate. You can say they are corrupt and they will try, but if they do they will be in some serious trouble. Changing the rules at the convention to put the fix in, lol, I would like to see them try it.

i will continue to dream along with you. I will be going to caucus sat. If we do not have a majority of delegates at national it will not matter what they or we do. They can change the rules. You can call it a fix, it will not matter! The gop gets to make the rules right or wrong!

Travlyr
03-07-2012, 06:24 AM
It's not about denial.
It's not about delegates.
It's about a deal.
Ron Paul's end game?
You heard it here first:

help://progressivesforronpaul.blogspot.com/2012/03/ron-pauls-end-game.html

It is about delegates like a football game is about points. Who ever reaches 1144 delegates first, wins.
Right now the unofficial score is 386 - 73 (http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/)

The end game is 1144 delegates. We pick ours in April. Nobody even knows what the official score is until April or May and you are throwing in the towel. Sheesh. One thing I've learned from John Elway and Tim Tebow is don't leave the game until it is over. If you do, then you can count on missing a great ending.

No Free Beer
03-07-2012, 06:34 AM
In all honesty, I'd be perfectly content with Ron Paul deciding to shoot from the hip like he did in 2007/08 and at various times this cycle in debates and interviews.

Strike the root, Ron. Then head home and spend the rest of your days with your wife and family. If you decide to write a few more books and make some public appearances, I'd be delighted to absorb your contributions to the hope of a peaceful future.

Exactly.

Badger Paul
03-07-2012, 07:07 AM
I don't think there's anything Ron Paul is demanding from Mitt Romney, not for himself nor his son Rand.

What he wants is to be inside the convention and for all of us to be in the convention hall unlike four years ago. What he wants for us to be inside the party.

Now you may not think that's all that important or desireable and some won't follow along and that's fine. But what we've proven is that we are the future and Gingrichs and Santorums and the Romney's are the past.

RP's limitations as a campaigner are well known and there's no need to document them anymore. But the bottom line a party which is mostly white, elderly and heavily dependent on government and religious (Social Security, military etc.) isn't going to vote for a candidate who isn't what they believe they are.

So we really have no choice but to slog on as we did four years ago and pick up as many delegate as we can and be a visable presence in the convention because you cannot have claim to the future of the GOP if you go away from it and the bottom line is the U.S.'s two party structure is simply too strong for a viable third major party to exist.

As I have said before, an independent vanity run is a waste of time and it's not something Paul really wants to do or would put his heart into. The only thing worth doing for the future is either building a brand new party from scratch or simply bide our time and wait for the power that's going to come to us eventually because those opposing us will die of old age. Rand is the one who has that make that decision and as sitting GOP Senator and having what seen that youth and independent vote go for Paul time and again in Republican primaries I think I know what his answer is going to be.

Now there will be some screaming this is most important election ever in history of man or the country will be in upheaval or the world will end at the end of the year. My only recommendation is go hide under your bed.

We could have an interesting situation at the convention or Romney will eventually win the delegates he needs to get the nomination. But no matter what happens Obama is probably going to win in the fall barring unseen events undermining him but Republicans will still hold onto at least one house of Congress, maybe have two. The GOP is still in flux, wide open as far as its directions is concern. If we're going to steer it in the direction e want it to go, we can't give up the wheel.

And those opposing us inside the party and out, again as I said, they're day has come and gone. Look at what happened to Limbaugh recently. You see, their power is growing weaker and will only continue to get weaker and the whole talk show apparatus really doesn't have ready replacements nor listeners when most under the age of 24 have their ipods on instead of their radios.

I know some some don't want to be told to wait and I understand that but I'm trying to be optimistic. RP has done much better this time around than four years ago. Our numbers are going up not down. An investor looking for a future growth stock would bet on Ron Paul, not the candidate but the movement, the liberty movement. We have become our own community over the past five years. We have elected officials, more than just the Pauls. Do we say it was all a waste of time? Hardly, look at how far we've come. And really, we can't turn back because it will be further back to where we started than where we have to go.

We press on simply because the we have to reach the journey's end and that's all there is to it.

bluesc
03-07-2012, 07:09 AM
"Now that winning the nomination is clearly impossible:............. PLEASE READ MY BLOG"

progressiveforpaul
03-07-2012, 10:34 PM
Exactly and why so many think otherwise is beyond belief.


status quo gop will not allow a brokered convention, not all delegates are bound so yes romney/santorum/newt will make sure they stop a brokered convention by making sure they nominate Romney in first vote. All Romney has to do is offer vp spot to santorum/newt and vote is over no second vote period. It is that simple, but we can all dream until convention, dream away! Your dealing with a corrupt gop. They are not going to allow it!

BUSHLIED
03-07-2012, 10:48 PM
I am all for the delegate strategy, fine. BUT my biggest beef has been with the campaigning. There is no reason for the flaws. What was with the ad buy in MI anyway? We needed Santorum to win MI anyway BUT we decided to hit him which may have helped Romney?? There is no way Santorum can win anywhere in the Northeast except PA. Romney have the West and Northwest wrapped up. The party and the country are split both regionally and philosophically/politically. Just look at the primary map and exit polls so far:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo6/RazorsEdgeVA/ElectionMap.jpg

The country is divided. When I look at the map, I see Romney is winning (mostly) in blue states and Santorum is winning in RED states. The exception are WY, AZ, and ID which border Romney's Morman state of UTAH. Otherwise, all of Romney's states went blue in 2008 and all of Santorum went red in 2008 with the exception of CO and IA which he "won" by .1%. I think this pattern will hold for the primary. The swing states could go either way (but leaning towards Romney) but traditional blue states will go for Romney and traditional red states for Santorum.

This is why I think you have a scenario for a brokered convention. Texas is going to be interesting, it went RED but it is a large primary state and Barbara Bush endorsed Romney...if Romney gets any more traditional red states it is going to make it hard to deny him the nomination. Romney is one to go after.

libertyjam
03-08-2012, 08:33 AM
Pfffffft...not on your life.

If I owned Hell and Texas, I'd rent Texas and live in Hell.

I'd ride through all of Hell and half of Texas
Just to hear Willie Nelson sing a country song
Beer just ain't as cold in old Milwaukee
My body's here, but my soul's in San Antone.

When I die I may not go to heaven
I don't know if they let cowboys in
If they don't just let me go to Texas, Boy!
Texas is as close as I've been.

TT

Lishy
03-08-2012, 08:39 AM
How about Ron give up his delegates in exchange for a guarantee that Texas becomes it's own Republic and we all move there.

Son, looks like ye got a plan!

fisharmor
03-08-2012, 08:41 AM
It's not impossible until they take the votes at convention and he isn't the nominee.
We have a golden opportunity here regardless of whether RP wins the nomination: to convince the rest of the US that the days of the media anointing a winner are over.
We can't use this opportunity if our own people are torpedoing RP's chances prematurely.
Cut this shit out.

azxd
03-08-2012, 08:52 AM
In all honesty, I'd be perfectly content with Ron Paul deciding to shoot from the hip like he did in 2007/08 and at various times this cycle in debates and interviews.

Strike the root, Ron. Then head home and spend the rest of your days with your wife and family. If you decide to write a few more books and make some public appearances, I'd be delighted to absorb your contributions to the hope of a peaceful future.
So you'd be content for an 08 repeat ... Not me !!!

This is what happened in 08, in case you forgot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk_vVaZxTno

I don't want to see first steps, or seconds steps, this time ... Unless those steps lead him to the Whitehouse.

Pericles
03-08-2012, 10:34 AM
I am all for the delegate strategy, fine. BUT my biggest beef has been with the campaigning. There is no reason for the flaws. What was with the ad buy in MI anyway? We needed Santorum to win MI anyway BUT we decided to hit him which may have helped Romney?? There is no way Santorum can win anywhere in the Northeast except PA. Romney have the West and Northwest wrapped up. The party and the country are split both regionally and philosophically/politically. Just look at the primary map and exit polls so far:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo6/RazorsEdgeVA/ElectionMap.jpg

The country is divided. When I look at the map, I see Romney is winning (mostly) in blue states and Santorum is winning in RED states. The exception are WY, AZ, and ID which border Romney's Morman state of UTAH. Otherwise, all of Romney's states went blue in 2008 and all of Santorum went red in 2008 with the exception of CO and IA which he "won" by .1%. I think this pattern will hold for the primary. The swing states could go either way (but leaning towards Romney) but traditional blue states will go for Romney and traditional red states for Santorum.

This is why I think you have a scenario for a brokered convention. Texas is going to be interesting, it went RED but it is a large primary state and Barbara Bush endorsed Romney...if Romney gets any more traditional red states it is going to make it hard to deny him the nomination. Romney is one to go after.

What happened in the following states illustrate our challenge:

Virginia - given a choice between RP and a no doubt about it RINO - 60% went for the RINO - needed a win there.

NH, WY, ID are states with strong libertarian leanings, and at best placed 2nd behind the RINO.

The candidate farthest away from RP's positions is consistently beating RP in places where RINOs shouldn't.

Feeding the Abscess
03-08-2012, 10:53 AM
What happened in the following states illustrate our challenge:

Virginia - given a choice between RP and a no doubt about it RINO - 60% went for the RINO - needed a win there.

NH, WY, ID are states with strong libertarian leanings, and at best placed 2nd behind the RINO.

The candidate farthest away from RP's positions is consistently beating RP in places where RINOs shouldn't.

WY and ID also have lots of Mormons.