Nigel Farage - Britain's Ron Paul

[NoOneButPaul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRx-CBlEIcA&feature=related

A friend just referred this to me, not sure if he's been mentioned here but I thought the speech was worth the post. He's been called Britain's Ron Paul (I'm sure his politics are quite different but still).

[BuddyRey]

I thought Daniel Hannan was Britain's Ron Paul. :confused:

[lib3rtarian]

I like Daniel Hannan and Nigel Farage. Hannan should have endorsed Paul at CPAC.

[Darthbrooklyn]

Theyre both awesome.... Hannan all but blatantly endorsed Paul at CPAC, but I think it went over everyones heads.

[SneakyFrenchSpy]

Farage & Hannan are as good as it gets as far as politicians who mostly hold our views in Europe. However, Hannan has disappointed me recently because he seems to have a hard-on for Stephen Harper (Prime minister of Canada) 's leadership and policies. When you look at Harper's record (increased militarism and deficits, stimulus and pushing for more drug war), he's Bush-lite but Hannan doesn't seem to recognize it. I've called him out on that, but to no avail...

[Mattsa]

We don't have any politician in the UK who even comes close to Ron Paul.

Farage is great fun and a good wordsmith. His rants at Van Rompuy and Barosso in the EU are legendary but Farage is not a libertarian. He is also a big supporter of the City of London, which is just a bunch of crooks as far as I'm concerned. Farage is a bit of a cheeky rogue in my opinion, good fun but not to be taken too seriously.

Hannan is also a good public speaker but again, he is not a libertarian and his similarity to Ron Paul is only skin deep.

Statism and socialism are absolutely 100% hardwired into the British psyche which is why VERY few British people would ever understand Ron Paul's positions.

[Mattsa]

I thought Daniel Hannan was Britain's Ron Paul. :confused:

Errrr................No!

[rp713]

I read somewhere that nigel describes himself as a libertarian. It mightve been a facebook page. His biggest cause seems to be national sovereignty though.

[dancjm]

Statism and socialism are absolutely 100% hardwired into the British psyche which is why VERY few British people would ever understand Ron Paul's positions.

I'm a Brit4Paul!

[Crotale]

GRRR! :mad:

Nigel Farage is NOTHING like Ron Paul. I have spoken with Nigel, he is no libertarian.

Nigel Farage opposes the gold standard, supports fractional reserve banking, condones subsidies, believes in a burkha ban, against immigration and so on.

He is nothing like Ron Paul. Doug Carswell and Dan Hannan are the closest we have to Ron Paul, but even then, they are still some way off.

[Crotale]

We don't have any politician in the UK who even comes close to Ron Paul.

Farage is great fun and a good wordsmith. His rants at Van Rompuy and Barosso in the EU are legendary but Farage is not a libertarian. He is also a big supporter of the City of London, which is just a bunch of crooks as far as I'm concerned. Farage is a bit of a cheeky rogue in my opinion, good fun but not to be taken too seriously.

Hannan is also a good public speaker but again, he is not a libertarian and his similarity to Ron Paul is only skin deep.

Statism and socialism are absolutely 100% hardwired into the British psyche which is why VERY few British people would ever understand Ron Paul's positions.

You are spot on.

[Crotale]

I read somewhere that nigel describes himself as a libertarian. It mightve been a facebook page. His biggest cause seems to be national sovereignty though.

The United Kingdom Independence Party (of which Farage is the leader of) describe themselves as libertarian. However they are libertarian in name only. If you read there manifesto they are anything but. Nigel Farage is as libertarian as Mitt Romney.

[JohnM]

He is nothing like Ron Paul. Doug Carswell and Dan Hannan are the closest we have to Ron Paul, but even then, they are still some way off.

I like Hannan a lot. He's much better than Farage. However, I would not be prepared to vote for the Conservative Party - unless the candidate was someone of the Carswell / Hannan philosophy. I would be prepared to vote for UKIP, though - simply because while Farage is not wonderful, he is a big improvement on Cameron, Clegg, Milliband, etc.



Statism and socialism are absolutely 100% hardwired into the British psyche which is why VERY few British people would ever understand Ron Paul's positions.

True. But England is a bastion of libertarianism and free market economics compared to the ultra-statist corner of Britain that I live in.

Occasionally I watch the "Big Dog" advert, and trying imagine what my friends and neighbors would think. It is enough to sent me into fits of laughter.

[nobody's_hero]

I'd say that the first step (though, only a small step) towards libertarianism is having some sense of sovereignty of a nation. Then you gradually work your way down to the individual. Every nation in the world has been going backwards on that path, including the U.S, for some time.

Collectivism seems to be the norm in Europe (yes, I realize the irony in that statement?, lol), but there's a few countries holding out against the drive to turn Europe into one giant soup of slaves. My bets are on Ireland to fire the first shot, figuratively or literally.

[oddtodd]

yeah farage is funny to listen speak but hannan' is much better philosophically. farage has said many things i dont agree with.

[GrahamUK]

We don't have any politician in the UK who even comes close to Ron Paul.

Statism and socialism are absolutely 100% hardwired into the British psyche which is why VERY few British people would ever understand Ron Paul's positions.

THIS!!

We're doomed! ... I'm saving my money so i can emigrate to the US if the Dr. gets elected, failing that ima settle in that town in Texas thats being set up inline with RP values

[Crotale]

I'm working on setting up a libertarian group in the UK. We have a loooong way to go if we have to hold our noses and support Messrs Hannan and Farage as the best of the bad bunch.

I wouldn't be able to bring myself to vote for UKIP, it's too much of a compromise. They support fiat money FFS!

[chri5opher]

//

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm British and I support both Ron Paul and UKIP, I follow both daily and have done for a number of years so i'll break it down;

There's no doubt that UKIP and Nigel Farage are certainly not as 'pure' as Ron Paul is, although they are pretty close. UKIP is a coalition afterall between conservatives and libertarians, with a small group of left wingers who often side with the conservative right within the party. Issues like that can be seen in the burkha ban and immigration. On the other hand, there's the libertarian faction which i've noticed is growing rapidly within the party. It consists mainly of younger people who often haven't been all that involved in the mainstream parties before.

Overall the party is libertarian with conservative elements, for example;

- The burka ban although unclear, was basically an intention to allow private property owners to have that power (a de facto repeal of Equality legislation).
- Although wanting a complete ban on immigration for 5 years, the party would allow work visas and then implement a tougher system.
- A system of local and national referendums would be introduced for issues such as gay marriage, abortion etc.
- Allowing home schooling, bringing back the grammar schools (although public funded, would be much more deregulated than comprehensives)
- Reform of the tax code to simplify taxation.
- Overall reductions in taxation across the board.

The more left wing aspects of the party include;

- The continuation of the national healthcare service.


Source - myself, have closely followed the party.

I think Farage is much more bold in his personal opinions (see IEA interview) but he is the head of a political party, not a movement.

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The United Kingdom Independence Party (of which Farage is the leader of) describe themselves as libertarian. However they are libertarian in name only. If you read there manifesto they are anything but. Nigel Farage is as libertarian as Mitt Romney.

This was always my impression of UKIP.

[Crotale]

As a Londoner myself, I can fully corroborate this.

The UK is f***ed, yo. Yes, most British people don't or would not have even a clue as to the economic, social or moral arguments re: libertarianism/Ron Paul. You'll find a lot of young 'anarchists' here but that has nothing to do with anarchism in a Rothbardian, free-market vein.

Anyone to the right of the BBC is deemed a "radical right-winger" and shunned. Trust me. I live this shit every day.

the UK is as socialist as they come -- though some will argue semantics with you

Yes, they smash up shops in response to our so-called "cuts" (miniscule reductions in the rate of spending increases). It's fucking helpless. We have a looooooong way to go, but it's a fight that has to be fought. Otherwise, I'm off to New Hampshire.

[Crotale]

I'm British and I support both Ron Paul and UKIP, I follow both daily and have done for a number of years so i'll break it down;

There's no doubt that UKIP and Nigel Farage are certainly not as 'pure' as Ron Paul is, although they are pretty close.

Mate, they're miles off. I chatted at length in a pub with Nigel Farage after the Rally against Debt. While you can argue that he is one of the better ones of a bad bunch, he is not even close. I respect his integrity, however, he is more closely ideologically aligned with Mitt Romney than Ron Paul.


UKIP is a coalition afterall between conservatives and libertarians, with a small group of left wingers who often side with the conservative right within the party. Issues like that can be seen in the burkha ban and immigration. On the other hand, there's the libertarian faction which i've noticed is growing rapidly within the party. It consists mainly of younger people who often haven't been all that involved in the mainstream parties before.

No it's not. The BNP-in-Blazers faction in UKIP are larger than the small minority of libertarians in UKIP.

UKIP is a blend of mainly Thatcherite conservatives and nationalists. There are a few libertarians trying to work within the party but they are extremely small in number.

UKIP in terms of policy are nowhere near libertarian.


Overall the party is libertarian with conservative elements, for example;

- The burka ban although unclear, was basically an intention to allow private property owners to have that power (a de facto repeal of Equality legislation).
- Although wanting a complete ban on immigration for 5 years, the party would allow work visas and then implement a tougher system.
- A system of local and national referendums would be introduced for issues such as gay marriage, abortion etc.
- Allowing home schooling, bringing back the grammar schools (although public funded, would be much more deregulated than comprehensives)
- Reform of the tax code to simplify taxation.
- Overall reductions in taxation across the board.

The more left wing aspects of the party include;

- The continuation of the national healthcare service.


Source - myself, have closely followed the party.

I think Farage is much more bold in his personal opinions (see IEA interview) but he is the head of a political party, not a movement.

You fail to mention the support for fiat money, fractional reserve banking, subsidies, central planning and a whole host of other things. UKIP are not libertarian. When they stop opposing the gold standard, the freedom to wear what you like and immigration then I'll reconsider.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No it's not. The BNP-in-Blazers faction in UKIP are larger than the small minority of libertarians in UKIP.

Yawn, now you've lost all credibility using left wing BBCish insults.


UKIP is a blend of mainly Thatcherite conservatives and nationalists. There are a few libertarians trying to work within the party but they are extremely small in number. UKIP in terms of policy are nowhere near libertarian.

I've just listed how they're libertarian in many aspects.


You fail to mention the support for fiat money, fractional reserve banking, subsidies, central planning and a whole host of other things. UKIP are not libertarian. When they stop opposing the gold standard then I'll reconsider.

No they don't support the gold standard as a party policy although Godfrey Bloom has hinted towards abolishing Central Banking before, that doesn't mean they aren't a libertarian party to some degree.


the freedom to wear what you like

I just have the example of the burka policy which is exactly that, something which you earlier attempted to twist (although you can be forgiven as the policy was unclear when first presented) into UKIP wanting to outright ban the burka on the streets.

I give reversing the smoking ban as another example of private property being put before made up 'rights' by UKIP.


and immigration

Even Ron Paul doesn't support open borders, he simply wants states to decide - which he himself, being conservative in person, would likely vote for anti-mass immigration measures on a state level. The United Kingdom is not a federal state, it is a unitary state - therefore immigration debate takes place at a national level, unlike the United States which is a federal state.

You confuse obeying the U.S. constitution with statewide policy.

[chri5opher]

//

[-:Undertaker:-]

Hannan and Farage have ZERO political clout in the UK. I know UKIP is technically the fourth largest party here, but I doubt most people even know it exists, let alone ever consider voting for it.

UKIP is on 5% to 8% nationally at the moment and has a fighting chance of beating the Tories in the 2014 European Elections.

It's going to be tough, but we're in it for the long haul.

[Danan]

Honestly guys, if there is any place in the world with even the slightest chance of moving in the libertarian direction (I'm just talking about the direction, not attainment), it's the US.

I'm all in favour of taking over a small country with Paulbots! Liechtenstein looks like the ideal place - it's quite "libertarian" to begin with and has low population!

[tnvoter]

that was awesome!!

[ssjevot]

Clearly this UKIP is a rather poor (it at all) libertarian party, but is there a more libertarian party in the UK? It seems like liberty isn't a big deal over there.

[chri5opher]

//

[Crotale]

Yawn, now you've lost all credibility using left wing BBCish insults.

Not an insult, because they are both really small. As I said, UKIP is predominantly made up of Thatcherite conservatives and moderate nationalists. You do though, which you cannot deny, have small minority of BNP-in-Blazers. Even Nigel Farage himself says so in "Fighting Bull". From my personal experience, the libertarian faction is even smaller in numbers than the small group of BNP-in-Blazers types. Please read what I say before jumping to conclusions.


I've just listed how they're libertarian in many aspects.

Libertarians would disagree with you that a party which supports fiat money, fractional reserve banking and a ban on an item of clothing could be called libertarian. Opposing a smoking ban hardly makes up for these major faults. UKIP are a conservative party, they are not libertarian. Please don't try to pretend they are such, their manifesto speaks for itself.


No they don't support the gold standard as a party policy although Godfrey Bloom has hinted towards abolishing Central Banking before, that doesn't mean they aren't a libertarian party to some degree.

You're correct, UKIP don't support the gold standard. Hence they are conservative, not libertarian.


I just have the example of the burka policy which is exactly that, something which you earlier attempted to twist (although you can be forgiven as the policy was unclear when first presented) into UKIP wanting to outright ban the burka on the streets.

UKIP want the government to intervene on the issue of burkha wearing. You can not deny this.


I give reversing the smoking ban as another example of private property being put before made up 'rights' by UKIP.

Smoking ban is completely insignificant compared to UKIP's major shortcomings on economic and social policy. They may be one of the better ones in a rotten bunch, but they are no means libertarian.


Even Ron Paul doesn't support open borders, he simply wants states to decide - which he himself, being conservative in person, would likely vote for anti-mass immigration measures on a state level. The United Kingdom is not a federal state, it is a unitary state - therefore immigration debate takes place at a national level, unlike the United States which is a federal state.

UKIP want a freeze on immigration for a few years and after they would limit immigration to a paltry amount per year. The UKIP mayoral candidate for London recently stated that he supports the notion of "British jobs for British workers". This is not the kind of policies that would be espoused by Ron Paul or any libertarian for that matter.


You confuse obeying the U.S. constitution with statewide policy.

I haven't even mentioned the constitution. I'm talking about UKIP's policies and how they are incompatible with the libertarian philosophy and how Ron Paul's beliefs contrast deeply with those of Nigel Farage.

[Crotale]

Clearly this UKIP is a rather poor (it at all) libertarian party, but is there a more libertarian party in the UK? It seems like liberty isn't a big deal over there.

There was the Libertarian Party UK which I was a member of but that kinda fell apart badly. Over here in Blighty, we need a huge educational campaign before we'll be able to make any headway in politics.

[ssjevot]

There was the Libertarian Party UK which I was a member of but that kinda fell apart badly.

Who do you vote for now?

[JohnM]

There was the Libertarian Party UK which I was a member of but that kinda fell apart badly.

I was a member too. The way it all happened would have been fascinating if it had not been so sad.

:(

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

The brits haven't produced anyone good since Herbert Spencer...Lousy place that has been for over a 100 years. :/

You guys do not even much history to bolster yourselves in England. Save for the Manchesterites there is little to be proud of in England over the last 200+ years, so you guys even got history against you. As bad as it is here, being a libertarian in England you guys have literally no chance unless a new renaissance comes about. Perhaps that Mayan new Age thing may yet come to fruition :p

I'd recommend a move to NH also.

Cheers, that country we once called home. (Good riddance by the way :p haha, no need to get yer knickers in a bunch!)

[bluesc]

The brits haven't produced anyone good since Herbert Spencer...Lousy place that has been for over a 100 years. :/

You guys do not even much history to bolster yourselves in England. Save for the Manchesterites there is little to be proud of in England over the last 200+ years, so you guys even got history against you. As bad as it is here, being a libertarian in England you guys have literally no chance unless a new renaissance comes about. Perhaps that Mayan new Age thing may yet come to fruition :p

I'd recommend a move to NH also.

Cheers, that country we once called home. (Good riddance by the way :p haha, no need to get yer knickers in a bunch!)

If I could move to NH once I graduate, I would.

The thought of spending the rest of my life in this socialist wasteland is essentially equal to a slow, painful death.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Brits doesnt seem to like Ron Paul. I play a game where a lot of the players are from the UK and I got banned from that game's forum cause UKers got annoyed about me talking about Ron =s.

[bluesc]

Brits doesnt seem to like Ron Paul. I play a game where a lot of the players are from the UK and I got banned from that game's forum cause UKers got annoyed about me talking about Ron =s.

I'll accept you!

[tsetsefly]

Statism and socialism are absolutely 100% hardwired into the British psyche which is why VERY few British people would ever understand Ron Paul's positions.


British AND EUROPEAN!

I lived in Europe for 3 and half years and still travel there a couple times a year. When it came to politics I was very surprised at two things:

1. There are very little differences in political beliefs here, they all fall along the same lines pretty much. Ideologically its almost a ''no no' to stand out. I think in part this is due to the education systems. I remember talking about libertarian view points and was amazed that people had never even heard these arguments before...

2. The welfare state is all but embedded in the blood of Europeans, I remember the look I would get because I though government should not be in control of education or health care.

As much as those living in America think its in bad shape (and it is) it is one of the few remaining countries where there is hope that we might see real change in our generation.

As for Europe I think the way you change the mindset on the role of government is to chip away at it with single issues where then you can introduce greater libertarian philosophy. For example the Drug War seems like a great platform to piggy back other libertarian ideas on but who knows...

[DGraham]

Another Brit here, ('The British are coming!')

Its true that UKIP is Libertarian-Light, and on some things its not very Libertarian at all, but I think its changing for the better. I'm a a member of the Conservative Party (Change from within) so I cant really offer insight as a member of UKIP might, but it does appear that the party is changing and a lot of young Conservative-Libertarians are moving towards it in the hope that they can make it the Libertarian alternative to the Conservative Party.

[liveandletlive]

I never took the guy seriously, seems like someone who just wants to rattle the cage he's in and grandstand for his own ego. saw him on Foxnews a while back with the idiot hack host thinking he's some sort of conservative. good luck to you Brits!

[NYgs23]

You guys do not even much history to bolster yourselves in England. Save for the Manchesterites there is little to be proud of in England over the last 200+ years, so you guys even got history against you. As bad as it is here, being a libertarian in England you guys have literally no chance unless a new renaissance comes about. Perhaps that Mayan new Age thing may yet come to fruition

Not at all true. They have the development of the common law, the Levellers, John Locke, Cobden & Bright, and Auberon Herbert. They have a much stronger foundation for individual liberty than, say, Germany.

[UNC08]

It would take expert translators when Farage is speaking, from the few speeches I've heard. His vocabulary is solid, and he also uses many humorous English colloquialisms which I imagine have no equal in many other languages. I imagine many of those Euro Parliament folks don't get half of what he says through translation.

[Pharazon]

You are soooo lucky for having people like Ron Paul and Nigel Farage!

In Sweden most people have never even heard the term libertarian! If I openly state that I am one and explain what it is, they will stare at me and their faces go red with held back anger. After that all political conversation is impossible since they automatically think that anything more right wing then Sweden's "moderate" party (socialists) is pure nazi-fascism. And they will of course not debate with a "nazi"...
In Sweden left-wing means freedom and right-wing means totalitarianism. State control over things is called democracy. :rolleyes:

The biggest liberal/libertarian party in Sweden got 715 votes in the last national election...

[JohnM]

You are soooo lucky for having people like Ron Paul and Nigel Farage!

In Sweden most people have never even heard the term libertarian! If I openly state that I am one and explain what it is, they will stare at me and their faces go red with held back anger. . . .
In Sweden left-wing means freedom and right-wing means totalitarianism. State control over things is called democracy. :rolleyes:


Sounds like Scotland. One learns to be very careful in expressing one's beliefs!

Educating people in libertarianism requires skill, and I suspect that it may take 20 years to convert someone. My strategy is to seek to persuade people that politicians are always interfering, that politicians are always doing stupid things, that politicians are only in it for their careers, that thus that politicians are one of the most basic causes of the problems that the nation (and the world) faces.

[bluesc]

Sounds like Scotland. One learns to be very careful in expressing one's beliefs!

Educating people in libertarianism requires skill, and I suspect that it may take 20 years to convert someone. My strategy is to seek to persuade people that politicians are always interfering, that politicians are always doing stupid things, that politicians are only in it for their careers, that thus that politicians are one of the most basic causes of the problems that the nation (and the world) faces.

I'm moving up to Scotland in June. To one of the most extreme left areas too. I'll be working on educating the masses the entire time :D.

[goldpants]

This is grassroots worthy?

[JohnM]

I'm moving up to Scotland in June. To one of the most extreme left areas too. I'll be working on educating the masses the entire time :D.

Whereabouts? Red Clydeside? East Fife? Edit: Sorry, I meant West Fife.

[bluesc]

This is grassroots worthy?

People still measure that?

There aren't enough mods to moderate this forum given how out of control it has become. You should report it if it's that bad though.

[Justinfrom1776]

I love getting the London/UK perspective from Oliver Cooper https://twitter.com/#!/OliverCooper It seems you guys have an uphill battle but keep fighting the good fight. At least you're not France, they're not even fighting.

[bluesc]

Whereabouts? Red Clydeside? East Fife?

Aberdeen. I'm only judging by the composition of the city council, but 36 left leaning vs 2 "right" leaning isn't looking too good.

[Diurdi]

GRRR! :mad:

Nigel Farage is NOTHING like Ron Paul. I have spoken with Nigel, he is no libertarian.

Nigel Farage opposes the gold standard, supports fractional reserve banking, condones subsidies, believes in a burkha ban, against immigration and so on.

Support of a gold standard and opposition to fractional reserve banking aren't really libertarian positions. Opposition to subsidies and opposition to oppression of religions however are.

But yeah, Farage isn't exactly a full fledged free market guy or individual liberty guy. He's still amongst the best in EU.

[Crotale]

Who do you vote for now?

I'm 17 so can't vote yet, not until June. :D

I'll probably either hold my nose and vote UKIP (unless the candidate is too nationalistic, like the UKIP's current mayoral candidate, in which case it's spoilt ballot for me). If there's a monster raving loony party candidate, I'll give my vote for them. :)

[bolil]

I feel terrible for our brothers and sisters across the pond. We are sliding into tyranny but they live pretty much in its grasp.

[bluesc]

I'm 17 so can't vote yet, not until June. :D

I'll probably either hold my nose and vote UKIP (unless the candidate was too nationalistic, in which case it's spoilt ballot for me). If there's a monster raving loony party candidate, I'll give my vote for them. :)

Given the condition of the UK, a nationalistic minority is a good enough trade off in exchange for the move towards independence.

The eurosceptics in power, unfortunately, are nationalistic by nature.

[Crotale]

This is grassroots worthy?

No, it needs to be moved.

[Crotale]

[Nigel Farage]'s still amongst the best in EU.

That's not saying much.

[nasaal]

He is against globalism. That is about where the similarities end. I like seeing Farage go off on people, but he isn't a wonderful guy. He can be pretty rotten in fact. Daniel Hannan is England's Ron Paul. He isn't perfect but the similarities are obvious. Look into him. He destroyed the PM. Edit: I will say I don't like his foreign policy. It is kind of Hunstman like. He is for intervention, just not grand intervention. Not a fan of that. But no one else in England comes close IMO.

[Crotale]

Given the condition of the UK, a nationalistic minority is a good enough trade off in exchange for the move towards independence.

The eurosceptics in power, unfortunately, are nationalistic by nature.

You're right. That's why I'll probably hold my nose and relunctantly give them my vote. At the very least, it's a step in the sort of right direction. More of a tip-toe than a stride though. UKIP are the best of a really rotten bunch, I'll give them that. But we need a massive educational campaign first to lay the groundwork for a political campaign. I'm hoping the spirit of the R3VOLUTION will blow across the pond.

[nasaal]

I'd embed it but I don't know how. Maybe someone else can do it for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs

[pen_thief]

The United Kingdom Independence Party (of which Farage is the leader of) describe themselves as libertarian. However they are libertarian in name only. If you read there manifesto they are anything but. Nigel Farage is as libertarian as Mitt Romney.

That's so disappointing :(

[nasaal]

How do you embed? Some pretty good daniel hanna videos out there that would go great on this thread.

[bluesc]

That's so disappointing :(

Try living in the UK. Feels much more disappointing.

[bluesc]

How do you embed? Some pretty good daniel hanna videos out there that would go great on this thread.

Click the film reel button above the text box when creating a post, then paste the video URL in the box that pops up.

[JohnM]

Aberdeen. I'm only judging by the composition of the city council, but 36 left leaning vs 2 "right" leaning isn't looking too good.

Aberdeen is not left wing by Scottish standards. Far from it. A useful (if crude) measure of "left-wingness" is the percentage of the vote that the Conservatives got in the 2010 General Election. (Where the Conservative vote is low, obviously the area is less left wing.)

In Scotland as a whole, the Conservatives got 16.7% of the vote.
In the constituency of Aberdeen North, the Conservatives got 12.4%
In the constituency of Aberdeen South, the Conservatives got 20.7%

In Aberdeen as a whole, the Conservatives therefore got about 16.55% - roughly average for Scotland as a whole, and far from being one of the most extreme left wing areas. Of course being about average in an extremely left wing nation does make Aberdeen pretty left wing!

[seyferjm]

Are there any liberty-minded parties in Europe at all? What about the Progress Party in Norway?

[nasaal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgnWS4KMDdE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD5pXL5GBG4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptVYgPWM7i4&feature=related

His foreign policy is off, but his overall economic stances are spot on for me.

[nasaal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1nETdJqoEQ&feature=related

[bluesc]

Aberdeen is not left wing by Scottish standards. Far from it. A useful (if crude) measure of "left-wingness" is the percentage of the vote that the Conservatives got in the 2010 General Election. (Where the Conservative vote is low, obviously the area is less left wing.)

In Scotland as a whole, the Conservatives got 16.7% of the vote.
In the constituency of Aberdeen North, the Conservatives got 12.4%
In the constituency of Aberdeen South, the Conservatives got 20.7%

In Aberdeen as a whole, the Conservatives therefore got about 16.55% - roughly average for Scotland as a whole, and far from being one of the most extreme left wing areas. Of course being about average in an extremely left wing nation does make Aberdeen pretty left wing!

Yeah, I was comparing it to where I live (Hertfordshire, just north of London) :p. It's heavily Conservative in my constituency (57%).

Any chance of winning any form of office in Aberdeen as a Conservative?

[wormyguy]

I live in Massachusetts, which is probably about the same level of libertarian as the UK, so I can feel your pain. Still, I kinda actually envy you guys for having "right"/centrist parties that haven't been completely taken over by neocons, that at least pay lip service to civil liberties (if unwilling to go further), and that actually do make some good-faith efforts to reduce the size of government when they're in power. House of Commons debates are hilarious, as are your newspapers. It does have redeeming qualities.

[pen_thief]

Try living in the UK. Feels much more disappointing.

Wow, did not know you were from the UK!
I thought your username possibly meant Blue Republican from South Carolina. haha
Well, so I guess you're saying my backup plan of moving over there if shite hits the fan would be fruitless, eh? :P

[JohnM]

Yeah, I was comparing it to where I live (Hertfordshire, just north of London) :p. It's heavily Conservative in my constituency (57%).

Any chance of winning any form of office in Aberdeen as a Conservative?

All things are possible (even Dr. Paul getting the GOP nomination!) and the Conservatives actually won the Aberdeen South constituency as recently as 1992. There are currently 4 Conservative councilors on Aberdeen City council.

Just outside of Aberdeen is the constituency of West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, where the Conservatives got 30.3% at the 2010 election, making it one of the least left wing areas of Scotland.

p.s. My socialist sister lives in Hertfordshire!

[tsetsefly]

You are soooo lucky for having people like Ron Paul and Nigel Farage!

In Sweden most people have never even heard the term libertarian! If I openly state that I am one and explain what it is, they will stare at me and their faces go red with held back anger. After that all political conversation is impossible since they automatically think that anything more right wing then Sweden's "moderate" party (socialists) is pure nazi-fascism. And they will of course not debate with a "nazi"...
In Sweden left-wing means freedom and right-wing means totalitarianism. State control over things is called democracy. :rolleyes:

The biggest liberal/libertarian party in Sweden got 715 votes in the last national election...

I can attest to that
And suggesting government shouldn't be involved in health care or education gets you blank stares at best ... Like I said the welfare state is embedded into their bloodstream... I have never heard teh word rights be used for so many different things... It's like everyone has a right to almost anything they want...

[bluesc]

Wow, did not know you were from the UK!
I thought your username possibly meant Blue Republican from South Carolina. haha
Well, so I guess you're saying my backup plan of moving over there if shite hits the fan would be fruitless, eh? :P

By all means, move here, just don't expect any form of freedom ;). At least you guys are allowed to discuss the option of privatizing things.

Honestly, if I was going to be harassed by a government anyway, I'd rather be living somewhere with nice surroundings.

[bluesc]

All things are possible (even Dr. Paul getting the GOP nomination!) and the Conservatives actually won the Aberdeen South constituency as recently as 1992. There are currently 4 Conservative councilors on Aberdeen City council.

Just outside of Aberdeen is the constituency of West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, where the Conservatives got 30.3% at the 2010 election, making it one of the least left wing areas of Scotland.

I'll have to look around. I don't imagine my ridiculously Southern English accent will help much though :p. Always an uphill battle.


p.s. My socialist sister lives in Hertfordshire!

Hey, so does mine! And the other socialist sister, and the socialist brother, and the socialist mother, and the socialist lite(Conservative) father! Avoid this place like the plague.

[One Last Battle!]

lol, at least you Brits have some somewhat libertarian people in power. In Canada, our "important libertarians" are limited to a lone Ontario tory (in Sudbury I think) and a guy in jail in the States for smoking weed. Oh, and some Alberta conservative who did something disgraceful and switched to "Civil libertarian".

[Crotale]

Try living in the UK. Feels much more disappointing.

LOL. :D

[Crotale]

Wow, did not know you were from the UK!
I thought your username possibly meant Blue Republican from South Carolina. haha
Well, so I guess you're saying my backup plan of moving over there if shite hits the fan would be fruitless, eh? :P

Moving to New Hampshire would be much better for you, yes.

[Crotale]

lol, at least you Brits have some somewhat libertarian people in power.

They're not really 'in power'.

[Crotale]

The UK Conservative Party is more left-wing than Barack Obama btw.

[One Last Battle!]

Also, in my experience, so far as libertarianism in Europe goes, France is one of the worst, Britain not too far behind, Spain is improving somewhat, Italy is okay, Germany is somewhat decent (FDP), and Poland (eastern Europe in general actually) quite good.

[pen_thief]

New Hampshire it is :D

[bluesc]

New Hampshire it is :D

Be sure to sponsor me to move there too.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

GRRR! :mad:

Nigel Farage is NOTHING like Ron Paul. I have spoken with Nigel, he is no libertarian.

Nigel Farage opposes the gold standard, supports fractional reserve banking, condones subsidies, believes in a burkha ban, against immigration and so on.

He is nothing like Ron Paul. Doug Carswell and Dan Hannan are the closest we have to Ron Paul, but even then, they are still some way off.


I'm 17 so can't vote yet, not until June. :D

I'll probably either hold my nose and vote UKIP (unless the candidate is too nationalistic, like the UKIP's current mayoral candidate, in which case it's spoilt ballot for me). If there's a monster raving loony party candidate, I'll give my vote for them. :)

I think media & public education has quite deliberately blurred the difference between "nationalism" & "zingoism"

Ron Paul IS a nationalist, which IS a good thing but of couse, he's not a "zingoist", he's left that to neo-conservatives

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/


A nation without borders is no nation at all.

Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

* Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbyebk-V-Hs


And nationalism is EXACTLY what Europe needs MORE OF right now if the EU is to die otherwise they'll just end up as United States of Europe just as the States in United States were earlier considered separate nations but after the Civil War, their sovereignty was taken away & now, even talking about secession is a taboo subject

Further, liberty is NOT the default ideology for humans, the default ideology is "free lunch" & socialism, which invariably leads to tyranny, & that's why we see the world the way it is so if there's a free-society then it MUST limit immigration because the majority in any country will be too stupid understand liberty & that's where culture comes in, if a free society can only sustain itself through a liberty-culture & not dilute it by allowing in truckloads of people from other countries who don't share the views about liberty; that's how United States went from "land of the free" to now socialist-corporation-soon-to-be-totalitarian State, because we didn't heed the wise words of Founders


I have no intention to invite immigrants, even if there are no restrictive acts against it. I am opposed to it altogether.
- George Washington


I do not wish that any man should acquire the privilege of citizenship, but such as would be a real addition to the wealth or strength of the United States.
- James Madison


When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .
- Thomas Jefferson


But are there no inconveniences to be thrown into the scale against the advantage expected from a multiplication of numbers by the importation of foreigners? It is for the happiness of those united in society to harmonize as much as possible in matters which they must of necessity: transact together. Civil government being the sale object of forming societies, its administration must be conducted by common consent. Every species of government has its specific principles. Ours perhaps are more peculiar than those of any other in the universe. It is a composition of the freest principles of the English constitution, with others derived from natural right and natural reason. To these nothing can be more opposed than the maxims of absolute monarchies. Yet from such we are to expect the greatest number of emigrants. They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children.
- Thomas Jefferson


UKIP is on 5% to 8% nationally at the moment and has a fighting chance of beating the Tories in the 2014 European Elections.

It's going to be tough, but we're in it for the long haul.

I agree, UKIP seems like a party on the up, it just needs to be reformed a little bit more by more liberty-minded flooding into it


Also, in my experience, so far as libertarianism in Europe goes, France is one of the worst, Britain not too far behind, Spain is improving somewhat, Italy is okay, Germany is somewhat decent (FDP), and Poland (eastern Europe in general actually) quite good.

I looked up FDP & looked great UNTIL I saw :

"The FDP wants a politically-integrated EU with a Common Foreign and Security Policy,"

Again, national sovereignty MUST come first otherwise all else is futile, without national sovereignty, one world government is inevitable, that's the whole point globalists to "merge" the whole world, nationally, culturally, racially, politically, philosophically & so on


I'm all in favour of taking over a small country with Paulbots! Liechtenstein looks like the ideal place - it's quite "libertarian" to begin with and has low population!

Isnt' Liechtenstein umm a little TOO SMALL, I mean it's so small that the Paulbots allover the world wouldn't fit into it & apart from the fact it's difficult to spell, it would be like a libertarian ant in the middle of totalitarian elephants; it's current population seems to be under 40000, yes 40000 :rolleyes:

How about Costa Rica? According to Wiki, its the country with largest libertarian presence in their parliament among all the nations in the WORLD! (~10% = 6 seats out of 57 :D) Population count 4.3 million & density is much lower than the puny Liechtenstein

Could we "buy" citizenships en masse if possible by putting money together & then there's the libertarian billionaire who's already given 2.6 million to Ron Paul's superpacs & has given 1.25 million to "seasteading" research, he might like to contribute some if he gets to live in a country ripe with libertarians rather than United Socialist States of America :D

Seems like an enticing prospect, sooner or later, we're going to have to do something like this I think, there are too many idiots in the world & we mayn't be able to change all of their minds to liberty :(

[Paul Fan]

I'm working on setting up a libertarian group in the UK. We have a loooong way to go if we have to hold our noses and support Messrs Hannan and Farage as the best of the bad bunch.

I wouldn't be able to bring myself to vote for UKIP, it's too much of a compromise. They support fiat money FFS!

Are you starting a new political party? Or what form will your group take?

[JohnM]

A new political party? Most of us are pretty bruised by what happened to the old one - the Libertarian Party UK.

This thread (http://libertarianhome.co.uk/2012/02/despite-the-troubles-lpuk-will-always-have-my-support/) is pretty recent, and gives a fair indication of the state of organised libertarianism in Britain. The comments and discussion are more significant than the original post.

The rest of the Libertarian Home site is also useful for those who want to get a picture of the current state of play in the UK.

[Crotale]

Are you starting a new political party? Or what form will your group take?

I'm working on setting up a libertarian community online, completely decentralised. Basically a massive pool of resources and a way for UK libertarians to come together and share ideas. It's a long way off though, I currently don't have the time nor money. Even if I had the money I don't have the time yet. Once I've made a blueprint and done a complete feasibility check, consulted other libertarians I know and got some people on board to help, only then am I gonna start raising some funds to get it started.

To be completely honest, it's a not certain I'd be able to get this off the ground anyway. It's just worth a shot I suppose.

[Crotale]

I think media & public education has quite deliberately blurred the difference between "nationalism" & "zingoism"

Ron Paul IS a nationalist, which IS a good thing but of couse, he's not a "zingoist", he's left that to neo-conservatives

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/

A nation without borders is no nation at all.

Well nations are great big fictions. Countries are merely geographical land masses. I'm personally an anarcho-capitalist. But yeah, minarchism is fine in the meantime so long as the ONLY role of government is to uphold the right to life, liberty and property. Nothing more.

[Ray Finch]

Firstly, let me declare an interest. I work for Nigel Farage. However, this perspective is my own, as a member of UKIP and someone who knows Nigel.

Now, for the avoidance of doubt, I support Dr. Paul.

As far as there can be a mirroring of personalities in different nations then Nigel is reflective of Ron Paul.

I speak to Nigel on a daily basis and see him most days. He is a great admirer of him. We talk about him frequently.

Nigel believes in a libertarian perspective, within British historical traditions, as Dr. Paul does within US traditions.

The UK and USA are different branches from the same root. We have many things in common and the belief in individual liberty is paramount amongst those beliefs.

Daniel Hannan is a close friend of Nigels and someone many people in the UK admire. However he still believes our Conservative Party can change from a party of big state to a small state party. As you see over there with the Republicans, once the horns of power are gripped by the troughers it is well nigh impossible to prise their greasy paws away.

Nigel believes, as do I, that the Conservative Party is unreformable. It is one of a troika of big state parties who are becoming more or less identical, as the pigs and humans became in "Animal farm". Therefore, the only realistic way forward is UKIP. At present we do have a, possibly sometimes uneasy, mix (these are my views) of social conservatives and libertarians but, given the social issues in the UK and the fact that UKIP is the only party offering any radical, yet common sense, alternative to failed policies from the other 3 parties the social conservatives do find a natural home with us.

UKIP is a fairly new party but we are growing in influence pretty rapidly although we do find, as does Dr. Paul, that the MSM is pretty much against us. Still, it is never easy. If it were, the job would not be so much fun :-) .

I would be happy to field any questions from forum members. My email address is a gmail one that begins raymondtfinch.
Don't forget the t in the middle of my name.

Best wishes.

Ray Finch

[Crotale]

Firstly, let me declare an interest. I work for Nigel Farage. However, this perspective is my own, as a member of UKIP and someone who knows Nigel.

Now, for the avoidance of doubt, I support Dr. Paul.

As far as there can be a mirroring of personalities in different nations then Nigel is reflective of Ron Paul.

I speak to Nigel on a daily basis and see him most days. He is a great admirer of him. We talk about him frequently.

Nigel believes in a libertarian perspective, within British historical traditions, as Dr. Paul does within US traditions.

The UK and USA are different branches from the same root. We have many things in common and the belief in individual liberty is paramount amongst those beliefs.

Daniel Hannan is a close friend of Nigels and someone many people in the UK admire. However he still believes our Conservative Party can change from a party of big state to a small state party. As you see over there with the Republicans, once the horns of power are gripped by the troughers it is well nigh impossible to prise their greasy paws away.

Nigel believes, as do I, that the Conservative Party is unreformable. It is one of a troika of big state parties who are becoming more or less identical, as the pigs and humans became in "Animal farm". Therefore, the only realistic way forward is UKIP. At present we do have a, possibly sometimes uneasy, mix (these are my views) of social conservatives and libertarians but, given the social issues in the UK and the fact that UKIP is the only party offering any radical, yet common sense, alternative to failed policies from the other 3 parties the social conservatives do find a natural home with us.

UKIP is a fairly new party but we are growing in influence pretty rapidly although we do find, as does Dr. Paul, that the MSM is pretty much against us. Still, it is never easy. If it were, the job would not be so much fun :-) .

I would be happy to field any questions from forum members. My email address is a gmail one that begins raymondtfinch.
Don't forget the t in the middle of my name.

Best wishes.

Ray Finch

No offence mate, but when UKIP's manifesto reflects that I'll take what you said seriously.

To me, UKIP are just trying to feed off the strides made across the pond with the r3VOLution. It's merely populism. However, are trying to gain the support of libertarians, yet what you offer in return is a manifesto full of statism.

I'll grant you Farage isn't an establishment candidate and has integrity and consistency. But character is where any similarities between Farage and Paul end. If that was the sole barometer then you could declare Kucinich is libertarian. However, if Nigel Farage was running for the GOP nomination, his platform would mirror Romney's not Ron Paul's. Nigel Farage's beliefs, and I have had a conversation with him personally after the Rally against Debt, are not libertarian. As a libertarian, I disagree with Nigel Farage's views. I respect his opinions and I respect him as a person.

However, I find it distasteful when he and UKIP try to repackage their platform as something which it's not. Nigel Farage is no libertarian, why not have some conviction and stand up for what you truly belief, instead of pretending to be something else? UKIP is not an non-interventionist party. You do not support sound money. You support the National Health Service - a government monopoly, the system which Obama is working so hard to introduce. You have protectionist policies. You have many candidates who constantly spout "British jobs for British workers". There a major fundamental conerstones of UKIP's platform which are COMPLETELY incompatible with libertarianism.

You are anything but libertarian. The only thing libertarian about UKIP is the name you give yourself. However, declaring yourself libertarian doesn't suddenly make it true. You have to have the policies to support that. Which you don't, you are an amalgamation of civic nationalists and Thatcherite conservatives.

[Crotale]

I would be happy to field any questions from forum members. My email address is a gmail one that begins raymondtfinch.
Don't forget the t in the middle of my name.

Best wishes.

Ray Finch

How about you address any questions here in this thread, where what you claim can be scrutinised?

[Republicanguy]

UKIP leader Farage he's good on the EU position. But I'm not a unionist or a royalist. And I defiantely wouldn't walk down the Libertarian road.

[Crotale]

UKIP leader Farage he's good on the EU position. But I'm not a unionist or a royalist. And I defiantely wouldn't walk down the Libertarian road.

Technically so is Nick Griffin and he's antithetical to libertarianism. He's (Nick Griffin that is) right on the EU for all the wrong reasons. Just opposing the EU doesn't make you a libertarian. Opposing big government abroad and replacing it with big government at home isn't too great.

[Pericles]

It is such a pity to see what has happened to the UK. Unfortunately, it proves the point made by the best battalion commander I ever served under in the army.

"It is much more instructive to see a bad example in action, than to see a good one."

[RiseAgainst]

I'm all in favour of taking over a small country with Paulbots! Liechtenstein looks like the ideal place - it's quite "libertarian" to begin with and has low population!

COUNT ME IN!!! Can I change my name to Von Liechtenstein?!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Jk1cwS-S9-w/ThEEVQJ-lbI/AAAAAAAAABc/dklCfBU6Buw/s1600/a+knights+tale.jpg

[Paul Fan]

A new political party? Most of us are pretty bruised by what happened to the old one - the Libertarian Party UK.

This thread (http://libertarianhome.co.uk/2012/02/despite-the-troubles-lpuk-will-always-have-my-support/) is pretty recent, and gives a fair indication of the state of organised libertarianism in Britain. The comments and discussion are more significant than the original post.

The rest of the Libertarian Home site is also useful for those who want to get a picture of the current state of play in the UK.

Thanks. Interesting site that I hadn't come across. LPUK doesn't come across too well. Sad.

[Paul Fan]

I'm working on setting up a libertarian community online, completely decentralised. Basically a massive pool of resources and a way for UK libertarians to come together and share ideas. It's a long way off though, I currently don't have the time nor money. Even if I had the money I don't have the time yet. Once I've made a blueprint and done a complete feasibility check, consulted other libertarians I know and got some people on board to help, only then am I gonna start raising some funds to get it started.

To be completely honest, it's a not certain I'd be able to get this off the ground anyway. It's just worth a shot I suppose.

What would you do differently from "the UK libertarian"?

[QuickZ06]

THIS!!

We're doomed! ... I'm saving my money so i can emigrate to the US if the Dr. gets elected, failing that ima settle in that town in Texas thats being set up inline with RP values

What town is this you speak of?

[Paul Fan]

So what about this group? http://uklibertyleague.org/2012/03/05/liberty-league-freedom-forum-2012-sessions-update/

Are they libertarian?

[Libertarian_Walrus]

GRRR! :mad:

Nigel Farage is NOTHING like Ron Paul. I have spoken with Nigel, he is no libertarian.

Nigel Farage opposes the gold standard, supports fractional reserve banking, condones subsidies, believes in a burkha ban, against immigration and so on.

He is nothing like Ron Paul. Doug Carswell and Dan Hannan are the closest we have to Ron Paul, but even then, they are still some way off.

Can you tell me exactly when Nigel Farage/UKIP has ever said they oppose the gold standard and support fiat money?

[Pericles]

Firstly, let me declare an interest. I work for Nigel Farage. However, this perspective is my own, as a member of UKIP and someone who knows Nigel.

......................

Best wishes.

Ray Finch

Welcome, and thank you for your post.

[compromise]

British Ron Pauls?

Nigel Farage - Monetarist, populist, an ally to our movement but ideologically distant from us, pro socialized healthcare, flip flops on foreign policy but opposed Iraq, was mixed on Libya and changes his view depending on the audience on Iran, quite pro-civil liberties but flip flopped on the burqa ban, now claims he opposes it, allegations of corruption have been made against him by other UKIP members

Daniel Hannan - Genuine liberty-leaning fiscal conservative, pro-Austrian economics, anti socialized healthcare, moderate on foreign intervention (opposed Iraq and Libya, supports Iran sanctions), good on civil liberties, endorsed Ron Paul 2012 and 2008

Douglas Carswell - Another liberty-leaning fiscal conservative, probably the most well known proponent of Austrian economics in the UK, anti socialized healthcare, more interventionist on foreign intervention (opposed Iraq but voted for Libya intervention and Iran sanctions), good on civil liberties, endorsed Ron Paul 2012

Steve Baker - Fiscal conservative, pro Austrian economics, anti socialized healthcare, between Carswell and Hannan on foreign policy (voted for Libya but strongly opposed Iraq and opposes Iran sanctions), good on civil liberties, fan of Ron Paul and his books since '08, but did not endorse anyone

John Baron - Fiscally conservative but not as much so as Carswell or Hannan, not pro-Austrian, anti socialized healthcare, excellent on foreign intervention (voted against Iraq, sole Conservative vote against Libya intervention, voted against Iran sanctions, wants UK out of middle-eastern affairs), good on civil liberties, has never mentioned Ron Paul

I would vote for any of these guys for MP over a typical leftist, but Farage is definitely not the best, even out of what little they have in the UK. I wish there was someone who was like Baron on foreign policy but like Baker/Carswell/Hannan on domestic policy.

[Tudo]

Not even in the same league as Dr Paul

[compromise]

Also, in my experience, so far as libertarianism in Europe goes, France is one of the worst, Britain not too far behind, Spain is improving somewhat, Italy is okay, Germany is somewhat decent (FDP), and Poland (eastern Europe in general actually) quite good.

Not sure what you mean by Spain. I didn't know there even was a libertarian party there.

Italy is bad. The "Libertarian Movement" party there doesn't even contest elections. The German FDP is not a libertarian party (the Swiss FDP is more libertarian though). The Party of Reason is the only genuine libertarian party in Germany and they aren't doing great

Poland is a little better, the Congress of the New Right got 1.06% of the vote in the last election.
Freedom and Solidarity in Slovakia are doing the best out of all the libertarian parties in Europe right now, got 12.14% in the last election, but they aren't pro-Austrian economics, more beltway libertarian.

[compromise]

lol, at least you Brits have some somewhat libertarian people in power. In Canada, our "important libertarians" are limited to a lone Ontario tory (in Sudbury I think) and a guy in jail in the States for smoking weed. Oh, and some Alberta conservative who did something disgraceful and switched to "Civil libertarian".

Peter Goldring resigned because he refused to be breathalyzed, he didn't really do anything disgraceful. Him and MP Rona Ambrose are not pro-Austrian, but self-identify as libertarian. They are probably beltway libertarians.

Scott Reid is the guy you're talking about in Ontario, he's a real Austrian libertarian and MP for Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington.
There are a couple of other Austrian libertarians holding elected office in Canada - Ontario Conservative MPP Randy Hillier and Alberta Wildrose MLA (and Wildrose Party leader) Danielle Smith.

[thoughtomator]

Nigel Farage is a heavy hitter in the most important liberty issue of our time - monetary liberty. There is no one in the EU who has taken on the banking cartel AND the ongoing cartelization of EU political organization with the blunt candor that he has done.

[compromise]

Nigel Farage is a heavy hitter in the most important liberty issue of our time - monetary liberty. There is no one in the EU who has taken on the banking cartel AND the ongoing cartelization of EU political organization with the blunt candor that he has done.

But he refuses to tackle the banking cartel in his own nation that are the people controlling his country's domestic policy.. He's normally very pro Bank of England in the European Parliament. The most criticism I've seen from him of his own nation's monetary policy was a single tweet, where he said a one word answer, "yes", to someone who asked whether he supports more transparency at the BofE.