GM to Idle Volt Hybrid Production due to slow sales

[moderate libertarian]

Not a promising sign:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203986604577257681918603106.html

[RiseAgainst]

Why not? Seems like the market is working. They produced a product. The consumer did not buy it. They are slowing production of that product.

[moderate libertarian]

I meant to say, "not a promising sign for GM volt".


I care for environment but Obama's various projects rewarding political donors with "green government money grants" is a scam of gigantic proprtion. No wonder many of them are going bankrupt after wasting tax payers money, Solyndra is just tip of the iceburg.

[tttppp]

Maybe if they made their cars affordable for a change, people would buy it.

[RiseAgainst]

Gotcha. Government intervention, as well as corporatism, is the problem. There are plenty of alternatives, hydrogen being a great possibility, but if the market were allowed to work unmolested we'd likely already have a solution, especially with $4/gal gas.

[bunklocoempire]

Maybe the volt would sell better if those pesky Toyota Hilux light truck diesels were squeezed more:


Ordering a Toyota Hilux Diesel pickup from the manufacturer with United States specifications is the best way to import it to North America. As of September 2010, Toyota Hilux's are not on the "List Of Non-Conforming Vehicles That Are Eligible for Importation." The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires that you obtain a letter from the manufacturer's U.S. representative stating the Toyota Hilux is in compliance with EPA regulations. A list of representatives is available on the EPA website.

Read more: How to Import a Toyota Hilux Diesel Pickup to North America | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_7394125_import-diesel-pickup-north-america.html#ixzz1o0RJXA7I

:mad:

Yeah, let's keep sanctioning other countries because it feels so great and it makes so much sense to friggin' sanction OUR OWN.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad:

[Icymudpuppy]

Diesels capable of burning unmodified Vegetable oil.... BANNED EPA
Compressed Natural Gas vehicles.... BANNED HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY COMMISSION
Propane vehicles.... BANNED HTSC
Lightweight Diesel engines.... BANNED EPA

You get the idea.

[NoOneButPaul]

I never understood why you couldnt put a bunch of mini wind turbines on your car (mirrors, grill, hood, roof, wherever) and then as you drove the car's charge would actually go up.

Of course you'd still need gas to start it, but imagine a car that actually charges as you drive it?

[MooCowzRock]

I never understood why you couldnt put a bunch of mini wind turbines on your car (mirrors, grill, hood, roof, wherever) and then as you drove the car's charge would actually go up.

Of course you'd still need gas to start it, but imagine a car that actually charges as you drive it?Wind turbines produce energy because wind hits them while they are stationary. If you have to drive the car to produce the wind it defeats the purpose, and actually requires the car to work harder to turn the turbines. Net effect would be negative.

[No Free Beer]

But, the government said it was a good investment...

[RiseAgainst]

Wind turbines produce energy because wind hits them while they are stationary. If you have to drive the car to produce the wind it defeats the purpose, and actually requires the car to work harder to turn the turbines. Net effect would be negative.

http://funny-pictures-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/infinite-power-e1297066663877.jpg

[specsaregood]

..

[RiseAgainst]

I had a hilux a couple years back. great little no frills truck. i would love to have one again.

Awesome:

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/trucks/IMAGES/stories/arctic/hilux4.jpg

and Indestructible:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/assets/cms/83c854f7-225b-4381-8559-c194253e5673/Large%20Image.jpg?p=090922_11:09

[azxd]

The VOLT is a scam ... They initially intended to produce 12,000 vehicles in the first year (look it up).
They make more Camaro's than that, in one month ... They never intended to actually sell this vehicle, but it sure lines the pockets of a few people, I suspect.

[specsaregood]

//

[NoOneButPaul]

Wind turbines produce energy because wind hits them while they are stationary. If you have to drive the car to produce the wind it defeats the purpose, and actually requires the car to work harder to turn the turbines. Net effect would be negative.

Basically what im getting at is why couldn't you put enough mini turbines on/in a car to the point that the effect wouldn't be positive? Im not saying the car itself would power the turbines im saying the wind created by your driving could power them.

Of course the car would still need to run on gas, but anything to cut down on gas consumption is a good thing.

The easiest way to destroy the middle east is to make their oil as worthless as mud...

[specsaregood]

//

[azxd]

Basically what im getting at is why couldn't you put enough mini turbines on/in a car to the point that the effect wouldn't be positive? Im not saying the car itself would power the turbines im saying the wind created by your driving could power them.

Of course the car would still need to run on gas, but anything to cut down on gas consumption is a good thing.

The easiest way to destroy the middle east is to make their oil as worthless as mud...
Do you realize that aerodynamics are a huge part of a vehicle being fuel efficient ?
The turbine idea would be worse than shaping the car like a brick.

[QuickZ06]

I now want an hilux.

[RiseAgainst]

I'm not sure if you are serious; but if you are: the answer is no. that wouldn't work.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/bawanaal/ebb22674_not-sure-if-serious.jpg

[Schifference]

I drive 2 hours one way to work. I have 3 extra Deep Cycle batteries in my truck. When I get home I plug my house into my truck and run my house off my truck.

[RonRules]

I drive 2 hours one way to work. I have 3 extra Deep Cycle batteries in my truck. When I get home I plug my house into my truck and run my house off my truck.

You're charging batteries with highly taxed refined gasoline now at $4.25/gallon, off an engine that's about 30% efficient, through an 80% efficient alternator and 80% battery charge. When you get home you discharge 80% efficient batteries and invert to 120/240 at 85% efficiency. Net efficiency 13%

1) You'll soon burn your $200 alternator.

2) You'll soon waste your 400-500 cycle lead-acid batteries

3) Your wife hates it.

Use the grid, it's the cheapest form of energy out there, particularly for small users.

[azxd]

^^^ A well stated mathematical reality, RonRules.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I thought the bailout worked? Didn't ya hear? Zombie banks. Zombie automobiles. Zombie energy sector. No one wants your shit, stop stealing from us. Rural America feels the depression. The parasites on the Potomac and in the State capitols around the country -- they could care less, they are robbing you blind. That's fine though, the boobs only care about who you have sex with, who you can marry, want country to bomb next, who to kill next, shuddering under their blankies because dem terrorists gonna get you ya hear! Grab my balls? Cool! I'm safe! Fondle my pussy and breasts? Awesome! I'm safe! Shoot some dogs, kill innocents, and militarize the police to stop folks from ingesting into their own body shit they want to -- A Ok! Habeus Corpus? Nah. That's too antiquated. For the children! We need secret prisons, indefinite detention, no trial, and the President if deemed necessary can skull fuck you.

Awesome...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiirtxKSDdc&feature=related

[MooCowzRock]

Basically what im getting at is why couldn't you put enough mini turbines on/in a car to the point that the effect wouldn't be positive? Im not saying the car itself would power the turbines im saying the wind created by your driving could power them.

Of course the car would still need to run on gas, but anything to cut down on gas consumption is a good thing.

The easiest way to destroy the middle east is to make their oil as worthless as mud...The increase in energy it takes for your car to push against the air hard enough to turn the turbines is more than the amount of energy the turbines are capable of producing. The more turbines, the harder your car has to work to move forward. The blades will resist the movement because of friction and the mechanism that produces the energy.

If they produced positive energy, it would mean that you could run a car forever off those turbines without providing an outside source of energy. In the case of wind turbines, or hydro power, that energy is coming from nature. Hydro power technically requires the sun to provide energy, because it is the sun's energy(not directly, of course) that evaporated the water, carries it up, and drops it off so it can go downhill again and hit the dam. Its the sun's affect on temperatures and the different pressures in the atmosphere that create wind and allow wind turbines to produce energy. But in all those cases, the net energy is still negative, we are just not the ones working to produce it, the sun it, and we are barely taking a fraction of a fraction of that energy for use.

However, in the car, we have to rely on either gasoline to power the car, or the car to move and create the wind. Because we lose energy every time we convert it, we would be spending our own energy to create even less energy, thus losing energy in the long run.

Let the sun, or let other parts of nature, provide the energy, lets just work on making our conversion of that energy as efficient as possible.

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Awesome:

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/trucks/IMAGES/stories/arctic/hilux4.jpg

and Indestructible:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/assets/cms/83c854f7-225b-4381-8559-c194253e5673/Large Image.jpg?p=090922_11:09

You might want to explain to the good folks at home just why those two trucks are so stone-cold fuck awesome.

[oyarde]

Not a promising sign:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203986604577257681918603106.html Yeah it is , junk is junk , nobody wantsto buy junk now do they ? Let the market deside , no more crappy , dumbass govt picking losers . Ever been to the horse track ? even kids can pick a few winners , but not big . bloated govt.

[oyarde]

Maybe if they made their cars affordable for a change, people would buy it. I would not buy that crap unless it was less than $6 or $8 bucks american , total , purchase price .you still have to buy an expensive plate and buy high insurance for a POS toy that you can drive ,maybe 15 miles without using 4.00 gas and the have to plug it in and use some high dollar electricity ......

[Anti Federalist]

Diesels capable of burning unmodified Vegetable oil.... BANNED EPA
Compressed Natural Gas vehicles.... BANNED HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY COMMISSION
Propane vehicles.... BANNED HTSC
Lightweight Diesel engines.... BANNED EPA

You get the idea.

87 MPG Turbo diesel Ford Focus, made locally in the UK, estimated US cost $18,000.

http://blog.fuelclinic.com/2010/01/03/87-mpg-while-driving-a-ford-focus/

http://blog.fuelclinic.com/wp-content/ford-focus-27-02-09b.jpg

[RonRules]

I thought the bailout worked? Didn't ya hear? Zombie banks. Zombie automobiles. Zombie energy sector. No one wants your shit, stop stealing from us. Rural America feels the depression....

It's not just that. Cars like the Volt or any of the new electric car are in my opinion BAD for the environment and take more energy overall than regular cars. In other words, they totally defeat the purpose.

These new cars have very expensive and toxic batteries. It costs $40,000 to replace the battery in a Tesla Roadster. The batteries are around $700/KW-Hr. I estimate the Volt's battery to be around $13,000. Even if it's on warranty, it's a cost WE all have to bear. Lithium batteries go bad fast, just like on your laptop an phone. If they are charged once in a hot environment, they are practically killed right on the spot. If they are overdischarged, they also die.

Read up about the "Tesla Brick". Thus far five Tesla customers are left with a "brick" and the car is immobile and UNCHARGEABLE. The battery has to be replaced at a cost of $40,000.

These cars have to be plugged in ALL THE TIME, when not driving. If they are let to deplete to zero, the battery dies and cannot be recharged. (If you think I'm making this up, google "Tesla Brick")

There is a CONSTANT loss of energy during the lifetime of the car. These batteries lose 50% of their power, just sitting there for about two weeks. It's like a constantly leaking gas tank. Imagine the cost and damage to the environment if your gas tank constantly leaked?! In the case of electric cars, the leak is coal energy and CO/CO2 emissions (and your wallet). Even while plugged-in, they leak, and will do so for the life of the car/battery.

[The_Ruffneck]

Not a promising sign:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203986604577257681918603106.html
should have stuck with the EV-1 it was far more promising

[tod evans]

Perpetual motion doesn't work.




Basically what im getting at is why couldn't you put enough mini turbines on/in a car to the point that the effect wouldn't be positive? Im not saying the car itself would power the turbines im saying the wind created by your driving could power them.
..

[klamath]

Do you realize that aerodynamics are a huge part of a vehicle being fuel efficient ?
The turbine idea would be worse than shaping the car like a brick.more like putting a drag chute on your car:D

[Johnny Appleseed]

I think a teleporter would be much more advantageous, forget cars altogether.

[klamath]

Loved my VW tdi diesel. All I wish is they would make one with all wheel drive.

[azxd]

It's not just that. Cars like the Volt or any of the new electric car are in my opinion BAD for the environment and take more energy overall than regular cars. In other words, they totally defeat the purpose.

These new cars have very expensive and toxic batteries. It costs $40,000 to replace the battery in a Tesla Roadster. The batteries are around $700/KW-Hr. I estimate the Volt's battery to be around $13,000. Even if it's on warranty, it's a cost WE all have to bear. Lithium batteries go bad fast, just like on your laptop an phone. If they are charged once in a hot environment, they are practically killed right on the spot. If they are overdischarged, they also die.

Read up about the "Tesla Brick". Thus far five Tesla customers are left with a "brick" and the car is immobile and UNCHARGEABLE. The battery has to be replaced at a cost of $40,000.

These cars have to be plugged in ALL THE TIME, when not driving. If they are let to deplete to zero, the battery dies and cannot be recharged. (If you think I'm making this up, google "Tesla Brick")

There is a CONSTANT loss of energy during the lifetime of the car. These batteries lose 50% of their power, just sitting there for about two weeks. It's like a constantly leaking gas tank. Imagine the cost and damage to the environment if your gas tank constantly leaked?! In the case of electric cars, the leak is coal energy and CO/CO2 emissions (and your wallet). Even while plugged-in, they leak, and will do so for the life of the car/battery.
There's also the environmental impact of battery replacement.
The big problem is for me is, these cars are promoted like they are clean, and this just isn't true.

[jkr]

"REVEEEEENNNNGGGE!"- THE EV1

[ghengis86]

87 MPG Turbo diesel Ford Focus, made locally in the UK, estimated US cost $18,000.

http://blog.fuelclinic.com/2010/01/03/87-mpg-while-driving-a-ford-focus/

http://blog.fuelclinic.com/wp-content/ford-focus-27-02-09b.jpg

Was waiting for this. It's so obvious that our overlords don't give a flying fuck about us or the environment. All they care about is taking more of your money through any means necessary. They don't call it black gold for nothing.

[azxd]

87 MPG Turbo diesel Ford Focus, made locally in the UK, estimated US cost $18,000.

http://blog.fuelclinic.com/2010/01/03/87-mpg-while-driving-a-ford-focus/

http://blog.fuelclinic.com/wp-content/ford-focus-27-02-09b.jpg

Was waiting for this. It's so obvious that our overlords don't give a flying fuck about us or the environment. All they care about is taking more of your money through any means necessary. They don't call it black gold for nothing.
IMO,
The EPA and NHTSA are major reasons the European models are not allowed to be imported.

ETA:
That and the historical claims that diesel cars do not sell well in the US ... Such is probably not the case, today, as distribution channels have been increased, and it is much easier to find a station which sells diesel.

[klamath]

You're charging batteries with highly taxed refined gasoline now at $4.25/gallon, off an engine that's about 30% efficient, through an 80% efficient alternator and 80% battery charge. When you get home you discharge 80% efficient batteries and invert to 120/240 at 85% efficiency. Net efficiency 13%

1) You'll soon burn your $200 alternator.

2) You'll soon waste your 400-500 cycle lead-acid batteries

3) Your wife hates it.

Use the grid, it's the cheapest form of energy out there, particularly for small users.
Too funny. Too many people need to learn the energy and efficiency physical laws.

[fisharmor]

Too funny. Too many people need to learn the energy and efficiency physical laws.

Yeah, NoOneButPaul, here's the deal: I'm not going to pee in your wheaties because your attitude is what makes it possible to take an education. (You aren't given one: you take it. From whatever source available.)
There are some fundamental things to pick up here:

1) When you get to the point of discovering that Newton's Laws aren't actually laws anymore, you'll know completely why what you're suggesting is foolish on the surface. My point is, keep looking.

2) As your self-education continues, you'll eventually discover that if you came up with a great idea, you can safely bet someone else has had the exact same idea. My recent one: semi-rigid airships which are heavier than air but use a combination of vectored thrust and a lifting body shape for takeoff and flight. Yeah, there's already a company trying to sell them.

3) Eventually you may get to the point of realizing just how monumentally fucked up your compulsory state indoctrination experience really was, given that you're only exploring this sort of thing now, after you've likely been removed from it for quite some time.

[angelatc]

OMG - obviously this just means that the government subsidy needs to be waaay more than $10k per car, right?

Flashback to Government Propaganda that filled the green blogs and car mags at the time:
Unofficial GM Volt "Handraiser" Waiting List Tops 33,000, Potentially $200+ Million (http://www.treehugger.com/cars/unofficial-gm-volt-handraiser-waiting-list-tops-33000-potentially-200-million.html)

[RonRules]

1) When you get to the point of discovering that Newton's Laws aren't actually laws anymore.

Einstein, is that you?



2)My recent one: semi-rigid airships which are heavier than air but use a combination of vectored thrust and a lifting body shape for takeoff and flight.


Ah, so you're the guy that made the Ron Paul Blimp!



3) Eventually you may get to the point of realizing just how monumentally fucked up your compulsory state indoctrination experience really was,..


Grade three was tough for me too.

[Anti Federalist]

Was waiting for this. It's so obvious that our overlords don't give a flying fuck about us or the environment. All they care about is taking more of your money through any means necessary. They don't call it black gold for nothing.

And I'm in the drilling for black gold business.

I've often vowed that I would never buy another new car, but I'd be all over a US made Ford Focus turbo diesel with a manual transmission that gets 70-80 mpg.


IMO,
The EPA and NHTSA are major reasons the European models are not allowed to be imported.

ETA:
That and the historical claims that diesel cars do not sell well in the US ... Such is probably not the case, today, as distribution channels have been increased, and it is much easier to find a station which sells diesel.

That is exactly the reason, not only why they couldn't be imported but also why they can't be made and sold here.

[acptulsa]

It's not just that. Cars like the Volt or any of the new electric car are in my opinion BAD for the environment and take more energy overall than regular cars. In other words, they totally defeat the purpose.

These new cars have very expensive and toxic batteries. It costs $40,000 to replace the battery in a Tesla Roadster. The batteries are around $700/KW-Hr. I estimate the Volt's battery to be around $13,000. Even if it's on warranty, it's a cost WE all have to bear. Lithium batteries go bad fast, just like on your laptop an phone. If they are charged once in a hot environment, they are practically killed right on the spot. If they are overdischarged, they also die.

Read up about the "Tesla Brick". Thus far five Tesla customers are left with a "brick" and the car is immobile and UNCHARGEABLE. The battery has to be replaced at a cost of $40,000.

These cars have to be plugged in ALL THE TIME, when not driving. If they are let to deplete to zero, the battery dies and cannot be recharged. (If you think I'm making this up, google "Tesla Brick")

There is a CONSTANT loss of energy during the lifetime of the car. These batteries lose 50% of their power, just sitting there for about two weeks. It's like a constantly leaking gas tank. Imagine the cost and damage to the environment if your gas tank constantly leaked?! In the case of electric cars, the leak is coal energy and CO/CO2 emissions (and your wallet). Even while plugged-in, they leak, and will do so for the life of the car/battery.

Very good. But you forgot one thing. A small car with this kind of battery capacity weighs as much as a well loaded light truck.

Batteries are good for two things and two things only, and they do count for something. They can turn coal into forward motion--something that has to date only been done by steam power or electric power. And they recapture braking energy so it can be reused, which really is a whole lot better than grinding it into hot asbestos dust and leaving it by the side of the road. Really. That said, hybrids and electrics have a whole lot of negatives. And being a hybrid designed by General Motors, it's only natural that the Volt have even more than most.

It's a pity that a truly reliable high speed flywheel is proving so hard to engineer. That would sure solve the problem.


Diesels capable of burning unmodified Vegetable oil.... BANNED EPA
Compressed Natural Gas vehicles.... BANNED HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY COMMISSION
Propane vehicles.... BANNED HTSC
Lightweight Diesel engines.... BANNED EPA

You get the idea.

You understate the case. Don't forget that the light vehicles like the little diesel AF talked about can't be sold here, because the government demands that all vehicles in the U.S. be designed so incompetents in pickup trucks can be free to run over you with out killing you, as per the instructions of the insurance lobby. So, we get vehicles that can be run into brick walls at jogging speed without damage (regardless of whether or not you run it into brick walls regularly, you get to pay for this feature), air bags that turn the car into a rubber room, and if they don't kill you by inflating with explosive force they'll cause you to run off a cliff after the initial impact because they block you view at that critical moment and knock you hands off of the steering wheel, safety cage construction that makes vehicles topheavy and generally overweight, and a whole, boring list of et ceteras...

The only way the government will let you sell a decent automobile in this country is if it has three wheels. They consider three wheelers to be motorcycles, you see. I wish the forums would get together and get into the 'enclosed motorcycle' business; I think we could kick Detroit's asses right back to Japan.

[Anti Federalist]

Two words:

Diesel Electric.




Very good. But you forgot one thing. A small car with this kind of battery capacity weighs as much as a well loaded light truck.

Batteries are good for two things and two things only, and they do count for something. They can turn coal into forward motion--something that has to date only been done by steam power or electric power. And they recapture braking energy so it can be reused, which really is a whole lot better than grinding it into hot asbestos dust and leaving it by the side of the road. Really. That said, hybrids and electrics have a whole lot of negatives. And being a hybrid designed by General Motors, it's only natural that the Volt have even more than most.

It's a pity that a truly reliable high speed flywheel is proving so hard to engineer. That would sure solve the problem.

[acptulsa]

Two words:

Diesel Electric.

What about them? There are plenty in our rail thread, though they don't tend to have so many batteries. Just enough to get sixteen pistons the size of coffee cans moving enough to start the beast.

Saw a Stanley for sale in Hemmings the other day. Nothing like saying to your passenger, 'I need fuel,' and pulling over by a pile of wood left by a tree trimmer...

[Anti Federalist]

What about them? There are plenty in our rail thread, though they don't tend to have so many batteries. Just enough to get sixteen pistons the size of coffee cans moving enough to start the beast.

That was more for the non train porn fans. ;)


Saw a Stanley for sale in Hemmings the other day. Nothing like saying to your passenger, 'I need fuel,' and pulling over by a pile of wood left by a tree trimmer...

There's a fellow in town that has one, like this but red.

http://www.skagitriverjournal.com/US/Business/Autos/1914Stanley606PatFarrell.jpg

Sadly, gasoline and later, kerosene are the fuel sources.

Love this though:


An advertising slogan for these campaigns was, "Power - Correctly Generated, Correctly Controlled, Correctly Applied to the Rear Axle."

Nope, if you want to pull over and use tree trimmings, this is pretty much it:

http://www.sladelaide.com/Ad1.jpg

[madengr]

I'd love a Hilux. VW Amarok, 4 door pickup, 4WD, 30 MPG turbo diesel, 620 miles per fill-up. Can't buy it here of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Amarok

Then of course, VW made a rabbit-based pickup 30 years ago that got 45 MPG.

[oyarde]

I'd love a Hilux. VW Amarok, 4 door pickup, 4WD, 30 MPG turbo diesel, 620 miles per fill-up. Can't buy it here of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Amarok

Then of course, VW made a rabbit-based pickup 30 years ago that got 45 MPG. Yeah , but diesel will be what $5 this summer ? I think I am getting more into the boat AF just posted....

[rockerrockstar]

They are not turning off the plant for good. They are doing this because they don't want to build too many cars and have to discount them. They are only halting production for 5 weeks.

I found a good article on the subject see link below.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-04/gm-to-halt-production-of-slow-selling-chevrolet-volt-plug-in-for-5-weeks.html


I think the prototype car looked cooler. See below prototype picture from 2007.

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/gm-volt-bbvbvb0.jpg

Now here is a 2011 production car
http://image.motortrend.com/f/30817906+w786+ar1/2011-chevrolet-volt-front-three-quarter.jpg

[moderate libertarian]

Ok, headline also referred to idling and not completely stopping. But it is an indicator of most recent trend.

[oyarde]

They will idle until sales catch up with production. Only way they need to make more is when the gubmint takes your Federal tax dollars not going to Russia,Egypt , Pakistan , Israel and Saudi , Homeland Security Sno Cone machines, then uses it to buy some of these crappy cars .

[Pauls' Revere]

[QUOTE=RiseAgainst;4238684]Why not? Seems like the market is working. They produced a product. The consumer did not buy it. They are slowing production of that product.[/QUOTE

Now they need more government intervention. Perhaps a tax rebate to consumers. GM is such BS.

[klamath]

That was more for the non train porn fans. ;)



There's a fellow in town that has one, like this but red.

http://www.skagitriverjournal.com/US/Business/Autos/1914Stanley606PatFarrell.jpg

Sadly, gasoline and later, kerosene are the fuel sources.

Love this though:



Nope, if you want to pull over and use tree trimmings, this is pretty much it:

http://www.sladelaide.com/Ad1.jpg
Of course the boat is going to sink and the car will be to heavy to run when the epa gets done requiring all the catalytic converters on them that are required on wood stoves in many areas now.

[bestwaterdistiller]

I don't believe what the government said.

[azxd]

OMG - obviously this just means that the government subsidy needs to be waaay more than $10k per car, right?

Flashback to Government Propaganda that filled the green blogs and car mags at the time:
Unofficial GM Volt "Handraiser" Waiting List Tops 33,000, Potentially $200+ Million (http://www.treehugger.com/cars/unofficial-gm-volt-handraiser-waiting-list-tops-33000-potentially-200-million.html)
YES
Obviously

More corporate welfare at the peoples expense ... That'll fix it !!!
;)

[azxd]

You understate the case. Don't forget that the light vehicles like the little diesel AF talked about can't be sold here, because the government demands that all vehicles in the U.S. be designed so incompetents in pickup trucks can be free to run over you with out killing you, as per the instructions of the insurance lobby. So, we get vehicles that can be run into brick walls at jogging speed without damage (regardless of whether or not you run it into brick walls regularly, you get to pay for this feature), air bags that turn the car into a rubber room, and if they don't kill you by inflating with explosive force they'll cause you to run off a cliff after the initial impact because they block you view at that critical moment and knock you hands off of the steering wheel, safety cage construction that makes vehicles topheavy and generally overweight, and a whole, boring list of et ceteras...

The only way the government will let you sell a decent automobile in this country is if it has three wheels. They consider three wheelers to be motorcycles, you see. I wish the forums would get together and get into the 'enclosed motorcycle' business; I think we could kick Detroit's asses right back to Japan.
If not for the incompetents (in any vehicle) ... Id' really like to drive a go-kart, and get 80-100mpg while hauling ass.

They'll never let me do that :(

[NidStyles]

They are not turning off the plant for good. They are doing this because they don't want to build too many cars and have to discount them. They are only halting production for 5 weeks.

I found a good article on the subject see link below.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-04/gm-to-halt-production-of-slow-selling-chevrolet-volt-plug-in-for-5-weeks.html


I think the prototype car looked cooler. See below prototype picture from 2007.

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/gm-volt-bbvbvb0.jpg

Now here is a 2011 production car
http://image.motortrend.com/f/30817906+w786+ar1/2011-chevrolet-volt-front-three-quarter.jpg

not only is their engineering lousy, the cars all look like glassed turds.

[xFiFtyOnE]

Maybe if they made their cars affordable for a change, people would buy it.

Bingo. I'd buy a Volt if they weren't the price of a Lexus. If they can't make hybrids cheap maybe GM should look into making other cars that have been made in Europe for decades that are fuel efficient and cheap. Maybe a turbo diesel? :cool:

[azxd]

not only is their engineering lousy, the cars all look like glassed turds.
A good description, and that seems to be the trend, as all designers attempt to develop more streamlined aerodynamics.

[azxd]

Bingo. I'd buy a Volt if they weren't the price of a Lexus.I'm still of the opinion that they never really wanted to make/sell the Volt ... There marketing seems to reinforce this aspect.

It's almost as bad as what they did with the EV1 ... They had some horrible and very limited advertising for that car.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Bingo. I'd buy a Volt if they weren't the price of a Lexus. If they can't make hybrids cheap maybe GM should look into making other cars that have been made in Europe for decades that are fuel efficient and cheap. Maybe a turbo diesel? :cool:http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/06/10591706-chevy-volt-named-european-car-of-the-year

Federal Reserve and criminal politicians bought this Headline with our taxed Inflation
http://www.gifs-paradise.com/animated_gifs/donkeys/animated-gifs-donkeys-49.gif

Chevy Volt named European Car of the Year
By Paul A. Eisenstein, The Detroit Bureau
It’s been a tough year for the Chevrolet Volt, General Motors’ once-celebrated plug-in hybrid. But perhaps it’s about to see its fortunes turn as a jury of Continental motoring journalists declare Volt and its Opel Ampera sibling the European Car of the year.
That victory comes 14 months after the Volt took North American Car of the Year honors – but, oh, how much has happened in-between. Just last week, GM announced it will shut down production of Volt and Ampera for five weeks due to excess inventory, a problem exacerbated by reports that several Volt battery packs caught fire after U.S. crash tests.



Move Over Prius, Step Aside Leaf? (http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012/03/move-over-prius-step-aside-leaf/)
Advertise (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31066137/media-kit/) | AdChoic (http://g.msn.com/AIPRIV/en-us)But while that – and a controversial hearing by a U.S. House subcommittee — might have briefly short-circuited Volt sales, it didn’t seem to unplug enthusiasm among European journalists. The 59 members of the European Car of the Year jury awarded Volt 330 points, nearly 20 percent more than its nearest competitor, the Volkswagen Up!, with 281 points Ford’s newly-updated Focus came in third, with 256 points.

“The Ampera and Volt won in a field of strong competitors, particularly on account of the outstanding technical progress they reflect,” explained Hakan Matson, president of the EUCOTY panel and an auto critic for Dagens Industri. “With its range extender, the Ampera presents a very sound new concept on our way to e-mobility. By solving the problem of range anxiety, it is a remarkable step into the future of electrification.”

[basicopetsi]

http://funny-pictures-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/infinite-power-e1297066663877.jpg

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/074/256/1285770302993.jpg

[azxd]

Chevy Volt named European Car of the Year

At one time this kind of thing was the result of customer satisfaction results and surveys ... Now it's just a marketing tool, and a failure.

[oyarde]

Of course the boat is going to sink and the car will be to heavy to run when the epa gets done requiring all the catalytic converters on them that are required on wood stoves in many areas now. Bummer , I was just picturing myself quitting my job, floating around in my nifty , wood powered boat , half naked , eating steamed mussels , having a cold one , playing with my silver , weapons and ammo , Ahh , the good life ..... :)

[Bossobass]

The Volt is just big oil controlling the alternative energy sector. Build an electric car that costs too much, performs unreliably and tell the American dolt that the concept is unfeasible and Americans don't want it.

There are/were 30 electric car companies. Some have gone out of actually making cars and into the technology of alternative energy. Some have been making/selling vehicles for a decade.

As I said in the manufacturing thread, the top problem is capital. It's been touched on in this thread but, no capital, no manufacturing... period.

The Fed Gov can spend a billion dollars to watch 2 chickens F**k rather than arrange for capital to be available for entrepreneurs/small business (simply by NOT borrowing it out from under them).

I drive VWs. TDI Golf and Jetta. They both average 52 mpg. I've been trying to buy a Polo for 5 years. "We're testing the US market", "It should be available here next year" and the ultimate bottom line BS story; "Americans don't want diesel cars".

Check any "Top fuel efficiency" list, the TDIs and BluMotion diesels aren't on them. Why? "They don't include diesel cars".

Biodiesel? Here in NC, most state owned vehicles run on bio-diesel. Where do they get it? In strategic locations, hidden out of sight and not available to mundanes.

All this BS about range, 0-60 in 'x' seconds, lossy tech, blah, blah. For those who sit in a creeping line of thousands of cars every day during "drone hour", all of that chatter is irrelevant. The gas hog shit mobiles sit there, day after day, month after month, year after year, pumping Zyklon B into the air and water while the inhabitants (always one per car) sit in them with an aggravation factor of 10 and BP of 190/120.

Take this car:

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae206/pointonetech/twoTangosW.jpg

Turns one lane into two. Quadruples parking space. 0-60 in 4 seconds. Safer than the average SUV. It costs $120,000 friggin' bucks. Why? No production. Cheaper version? Coming soon... :rolleyes:

Never gonna happen. The big car mannys buy a trillion $$ in ads, the "news" follows with reports of "Americans don't want... Unreliable... Not enough range... Too expensive... Unsafe... No infrastructure... " and there you have it. US Fleet Mileage = 20.1 mpg. Less than when Ford was selling the Model A a hundred f**king years ago.

BluMotion diesel Polo at 80-100 mpg that will run on home made WVO at 70 cents/gallon? Hell yes, fork it over. I don't care what it looks like, I don't need a radio, I don't care what color it is, just fork it over, I want it Toady! Closing in on 6 years of such correspondence with VW and no Polo in sight.

You'll have a real alternative when Exxon says you can. They'll own the tech, controlling interest in the manufacturer and the finance company and there will be the ever-present illusion of choice provided by Madison Avenue.

Bosso

[oyarde]

The Volt is just big oil controlling the alternative energy sector. Build an electric car that costs too much, performs unreliably and tell the American dolt that the concept is unfeasible and Americans don't want it.

There are/were 30 electric car companies. Some have gone out of actually making cars and into the technology of alternative energy. Some have been making/selling vehicles for a decade.

As I said in the manufacturing thread, the top problem is capital. It's been touched on in this thread but, no capital, no manufacturing... period.

The Fed Gov can spend a billion dollars to watch 2 chickens F**k rather than arrange for capital to be available for entrepreneurs/small business (simply by NOT borrowing it out from under them).

I drive VWs. TDI Golf and Jetta. They both average 52 mpg. I've been trying to buy a Polo for 5 years. "We're testing the US market", "It should be available here next year" and the ultimate bottom line BS story; "Americans don't want diesel cars".

Check any "Top fuel efficiency" list, the TDIs and BluMotion diesels aren't on them. Why? "They don't include diesel cars".

Biodiesel? Here in NC, most state owned vehicles run on bio-diesel. Where do they get it? In strategic locations, hidden out of sight and not available to mundanes.

All this BS about range, 0-60 in 'x' seconds, lossy tech, blah, blah. For those who sit in a creeping line of thousands of cars every day during "drone hour", all of that chatter is irrelevant. The gas hog shit mobiles sit there, day after day, month after month, year after year, pumping Zyklon B into the air and water while the inhabitants (always one per car) sit in them with an aggravation factor of 10 and BP of 190/120.

Take this car:

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae206/pointonetech/twoTangosW.jpg

Turns one lane into two. Quadruples parking space. 0-60 in 4 seconds. Safer than the average SUV. It costs $120,000 friggin' bucks. Why? No production. Cheaper version? Coming soon... :rolleyes:

Never gonna happen. The big car mannys buy a trillion $$ in ads, the "news" follows with reports of "Americans don't want... Unreliable... Not enough range... Too expensive... Unsafe... No infrastructure... " and there you have it. US Fleet Mileage = 20.1 mpg. Less than when Ford was selling the Model A a hundred f**king years ago.

BluMotion diesel Polo at 80-100 mpg that will run on home made WVO at 70 cents/gallon? Hell yes, fork it over. I don't care what it looks like, I don't need a radio, I don't care what color it is, just fork it over, I want it Toady! Closing in on 6 years of such correspondence with VW and no Polo in sight.

You'll have a real alternative when Exxon says you can. They'll own the tech, controlling interest in the manufacturer and the finance company and there will be the ever-present illusion of choice provided by Madison Avenue.

Bosso I take it you see why I like the boat so much.

[moderate libertarian]

Take this car:

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae206/pointonetech/twoTangosW.jpg


Bosso

That will be the car Obama will be driving if he attacked mideast apartheids newclear sites.

[Anti Federalist]

Bummer , I was just picturing myself quitting my job, floating around in my nifty , wood powered boat , half naked , eating steamed mussels , having a cold one , playing with my silver , weapons and ammo , Ahh , the good life ..... :)

They have not found us yet.

Your dream is safe.

http://slipperlaunch.net/Photos%20for%20Web/Wisp-1_editedw.jpg

http://www.gnhw.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/steamboatRally-300x225.jpg

http://www.neme-s.org/Dublin_Winnipesaukee_2006/P1010043.JPG

[Anti Federalist]

Nice pic of the engine and boiler of one of these.

http://www.neme-s.org/Dublin_Winnipesaukee_2006/P1010029.JPG

[oyarde]

Well , I see I have room for the grape shot on the prow there , but I may want something that turns tighter in the sloughs and backwaters where I will be enjoying my panfish and mussels . ;)

[moderate libertarian]

Nice pic of the engine and boiler of one of these.

http://www.neme-s.org/Dublin_Winnipesaukee_2006/P1010029.JPG

Now that's a real machine.

[acptulsa]

Bingo. I'd buy a Volt if they weren't the price of a Lexus. If they can't make hybrids cheap maybe GM should look into making other cars that have been made in Europe for decades that are fuel efficient and cheap. Maybe a turbo diesel? :cool:

Um, what part of the government won't let them sell them in the U.S. do you not understand..?