MN - Jesse Ventura sues "American Sniper" author, Chris Kyle, for libel.

[Anti Federalist]

Good for Jesse, hope he sues the shit out of him.



Ventura sues 'American Sniper' author for libel

February 25, 2012

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/02/25/ventura-libel-lawsuit/?refid=0

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Jesse Ventura is suing an author over the way he portrays a bar fight he claims he had with the former Minnesota governor.

In a lawsuit moved into federal court this week, Ventura claims author Chris Kyle defamed him to gain notoriety for his book, "American Sniper, the Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History."

The book was published last month. In it, Kyle describes a 2006 bar fight in which he punched someone named "Scruff Face." In media interviews publicizing the book, he said Scruff Face is Ventura.

Ventura, a former Navy SEAL and host of "Conspiracy Theory" on truTV, claims the fight never happened and Kyle knows his story is false.

In documents filed Friday, Kyle's attorney, John Borger, says his client denies the allegations.

[RickyJ]

I hope no one buys this paid killer's book. Glorifying a sniper for invasions that never should have taken place is not good for America.

[pcosmar]

I hope no one buys this paid killer's book. Glorifying a sniper for invasions that never should have taken place is not good for America.

Amen,
Even when and if such deeds are necessary,, they are nothing to brag about or be glorified.

:(

[Revolution9]

Good for Jesse, hope he sues the shit out of him.<snippped for focus>

In documents filed Friday, Kyle's attorney, John Borger, says his client denies the allegations.

There is a video of him on the Opie and Andy show stating this. Frikkin' loser. And this clown is running a civilian intel platform??. I hope contractors pay dearly for his truth filled reports. I hope Jessie buys a big bag with his winnings.

Rev9

[kill the banks]

I like Jesse ... he really does have a good heart

[Anti Federalist]

There is a video of him on the Opie and Andy show stating this. Frikkin' loser. And this clown is running a civilian intel platform??. I hope contractors pay dearly for his truth filled reports. I hope Jessie buys a big bag with his winnings.

Rev9

Worse, he's training cops.


Kyle’s “service” continues, even though he’s retired from the military. He is president of Craft International, a Homeland Security contractor involved in training domestic law enforcement agencies. It’s quite likely that Kyle’s outfit will soak up a considerable portion of the roughly $1.5 billion dollars the Obama administration seeks to hire military veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan to work as police, emergency personnel, and park rangers.

Plenty of cops gonna get their "combat qualifications".

[jmdrake]

I hope Jesse's done his homework and gotten depositions or affidavits from the owner, waitresses and bartenders who worked at the bar in question in 2006 which say they don't remember the incident in question ever happening. I'm betting Chris Kyle didn't see this coming.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Good, Chris Kyle had this coming.

[No Free Beer]

good.

[Pericles]

FOOD FIGHT!

[AGRP]

Karma.

Its gonna get him.

[IronPatriot]

Awesome.

[Paul Revered]

STOP!!!! DO THIS IF YOU WANT TO WIN!! WA!!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?364229-STOP!!!!-DO-THIS-IF-YOU-WANT-TO-WIN!!-WA!!

[QuickZ06]

I really hope this all blows up in the Snipers face. I am not one to sue but this whole issues turned a lot of people away from Jesse Ventura, people that I even knew.

[flightlesskiwi]

bumpity bump.


In documents filed Friday, Kyle's attorney, John Borger, says his client denies the allegations.

denies what allegations? that he said what he said?? wth?

edit:


In a lawsuit moved into federal court this week, Ventura claims author Chris Kyle defamed him to gain notoriety for his book, "

kiwi reading comprehension fail.

[jmdrake]

bumpity bump.



denies what allegations? that he said what he said?? wth?

edit:



kiwi reading comprehension fail.

If you don't deny the allegations in a lawsuit you lose by default. Chris Kyle's only defense is if he can provide convincing evidence that he told the truth. For instance if the owner of the bar said "Yeah! I remember that night. Everything happened exactly as Chris Kyle said it did". Or if there was any camera phone footage or whatever. In short the denial can't be the statement. He must be planning to deny that the statement is untrue.

[flightlesskiwi]

If you don't deny the allegations in a lawsuit you lose by default. Chris Kyle's only defense is if he can provide convincing evidence that he told the truth. For instance if the owner of the bar said "Yeah! I remember that night. Everything happened exactly as Chris Kyle said it did". Or if there was any camera phone footage or whatever. In short the denial can't be the statement. He must be planning to deny that the statement is untrue.

if that be the case, this will be interesting indeedy!

[AuH20]

Didn't Jesse lie that he was a SEAL to begin with? He was actually UDT. It will be interesting to see which side is lying.

[jmdrake]

Didn't Jesse lie that he was a SEAL to begin with? He was actually UDT. It will be interesting to see which side is lying.

The UDT was the forerunners of thie SEALs and Jesse became a SEAL reservist. So no, he didn't lie. Those spreading the lie that he wasn't a SEAL are the liars.

[AuH20]

The UDT was the forerunners of thie SEALs and Jesse became a SEAL reservist. So no, he didn't lie. Those spreading the lie that he wasn't a SEAL are the liars.

He embellished and lied in his autobiography. SEALs were a distinct entity created in the 1980s. He could have said he was a member of UDT and no one would have batted an eye.

[donnay]

Didn't Jesse lie that he was a SEAL to begin with? He was UDT. It will be interesting to see which side is lying.

*SIGH* No he didn't lie.


In the mid-1950s, the Navy saw how the UDT's mission had expanded to a broad range of "unconventional warfare", but also that this clashed with the UDT's traditional focus on swimming and diving operations. It was therefore decided to create a new type of unit that would build on the UDT's elite qualities and water-borne expertise, but would add land combat skills, including parachute training and guerrilla/counterinsurgency operations.

These new teams would eventually replace the UDTs. The new force was the United States Navy SEALs. (SEAL for their ability to operate by "Sea-Air-Land".) However, implementation of this program lagged. [15]

Then President John F. Kennedy took office. Kennedy recognized the need for unconventional warfare, and supported the use of special operations forces against guerrilla activity. The Navy moved to establish its role in special operations. In January 1962, SEAL Team One was commissioned. The SEALs expanded their numbers and roles through the 1960s and 1970s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_Demolition_Team

[dannno]

The UDT was the forerunners of thie SEALs and Jesse became a SEAL reservist. So no, he didn't lie. Those spreading the lie that he wasn't a SEAL are the liars.

Yes, Jesse Ventura is completely justified in calling himself a SEAL, the Navy says so.

[jmdrake]

He embellished and lied in his autobiography. SEALs were a distinct entity created in the 1980s. He could have said he was a member of UDT and no one would have batted an eye.

Except as a SEAL reservist he became a SEAL. Folks can "bat their eyes" all they want.

[AuH20]

Yes, Jesse Ventura is completely justified in calling himself a SEAL, the Navy says so.

The Navy has two completely different numerical classifications for SEALs (5326) and members of UDT (5321). They are two distinct entities that have specialized roles. UDT was primarily trained for amphibious landing recon and surveillance, while the SEAL program was strike team oriented, in that their members actively trained in Green Beret as well as Special Forces Schools. Obviously, when one hears the term SEAL, their ears perk up in excitement, due to the rugged reputation. I think Ventura got caught up in the glory of it all and played up the SEAL role for the benefit of his political career.

[donnay]

The Navy has two completely different numerical classifications for SEALs (5326) and members of UDT (5321). They are two distinct entities that have specialized roles. UDT was primarily trained for amphibious landing recon and surveillance, while the SEAL program was strike team oriented, in that their members actively trained in Green Beret as well as Special Forces Schools. Obviously, when one hears the term SEAL, their ears perk up in excitement, due to the rugged reputation. I think Ventura got caught up in the glory of it all and played up the SEAL role for the benefit of his political career.

Don't you think if Jesse was lying they would pummel him for lying? C'mon use your head. They thought they might be able to discredit him by using Kyles story but it seemed to backfire now didn't it?

[Anti Federalist]

The Navy has two completely different numerical classifications for SEALs (5326) and members of UDT (5321). They are two distinct entities that have specialized roles. UDT was primarily trained for amphibious landing recon and surveillance, while the SEAL program was strike team oriented, in that their members actively trained in Green Beret as well as Special Forces Schools. Obviously, when one hears the term SEAL, their ears perk up in excitement, due to the rugged reputation. I think Ventura got caught up in the glory of it all and played up the SEAL role for the benefit of his political career.

So, you're saying he was NOT a SEAL?

Or that he WAS a SEAL, and played up the role for, it wasn't politics at the time, it would have been his wrestling and acting career?

[AuH20]

Don't you think if Jesse was lying they would pummel him for lying? C'mon use your head. They thought they might be able to discredit him by using Kyles story but it seemed to backfire now didn't it?

I don't know what to think. Kyle could be lying. But by the very same token, Jesse Ventura has proved that his word isn't as pure as the newly fallen snow. So we wait and see.

[AuH20]

So, you're saying he was NOT a SEAL?

Or that he WAS a SEAL, and played up the role for, it wasn't politics at the time, it would have been his wrestling and acting career?

Not a SEAL. And it's not even open to debate, despite the fantasy outlined in his autobiography:

http://cursor.org/stories/seal_or_udt_3.htm


Still in search of an answer to the question of whether Jesse had ever been a SEAL or a frogman in the shit, I obtained a roster of UDT 12 that included his name. Looking down the roster, I saw Jesse and I had mutual acquaintances, one of whom was Artie Ruiz. Although Artie had never been a SEAL, he had been one of those rare frogmen who certainly had been in the shit. All you need do was take one look at his back, pockmarked with old shrapnel wounds, to know he'd been there.

Artie had been dinged while single-handedly keeping the VC from swarming his disabled patrol boat. Every soul on board save one had been either killed or seriously wounded in an ambush. Artie, who is about the size of Audie Murphy and as soft-spoken, fought off the enemy with a handheld M-60 machine gun at a range of 25 yards. He got a Bronze Star to go with his Heart. Should have been a Navy Cross, but enlisted guys don't have a strong lobby with the Awards Board like officers do.

I called Artie at his home in National City. "Yes, I knew Jesse and Jan," Artie said. "They were the Janos brothers. Jesse in those days was known as Jim 'the Dirty' Janos and his brother was Jan 'the Clean.' "Jan was a four-oh sailor. Squared away. Jim was a great guy, but
he didn't care much about having a spiffy uniform or regulation haircut. He didn't believe much in showers, either.

"Jim belonged to a motorcycle gang in I.B. The Mongols or Mescaleros or something. I'm not sure. But I remember how he used to come roaring up Highway 75 every morning before quarters, wearing his colors and torn Levi's, reared back on his Harley hog. He'd zoom around the asphalt grinder, do a wheelie or two, then park and shift into the uniform of the day - UDT swim trunks and blue 'n' gold T-shirt."

Changing one set of colors for another?

"You could say that. Then, after a day of fun in the sun, he'd shift again and tear up the road back to I.B. and the In Spot, a tittie-flop bar where he worked as a bouncer. Jim maintained order, but not too much. You had to get really outa line for Jim to toss you. But toss you he could. Jim wasn't as buff then as when he became Jesse 'the Body' Ventura, but he was on his way."

Jesse ever in a SEAL Team?

"Oh, no. Spent his entire time in Team 12. Never had a SEAL NEC."

Could you explain about an NEC, what it means?

"Means Navy enlisted classification. It's a code all enlisted guys have that tells what their warfare specialty is. UDT guys were 5321s and SEALs were 5326s. Had to serve in a SEAL Team for at least six months before you qualified as a 26."

Jesse ever in the shit like you or Stony?

"Oh, no. At least not that I heard of, and I probably would have known if he'd been in anything serious. But I don't hold that against him. He was a good teammate. Just a little loco."

Once again, Jesse isn't a bad guy for being UDT as opposed to a SEAL but he should have come clean.

[seraphson]

Amen,
Even when and if such deeds are necessary,, they are nothing to brag about or be glorified.

:(

Not only that. Let's take a moment to examine the book title . "American Sniper, the Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History." Even if that is true talk about stroking your ego much?

On a side note. Does anyone else think Jesse should go full shaved? The baldness being chased by old flowing gray hair kind of gives me the creeps.

[jmdrake]

The Navy has two completely different numerical classifications for SEALs (5326) and members of UDT (5321). They are two distinct entities that have specialized roles. UDT was primarily trained for amphibious landing recon and surveillance, while the SEAL program was strike team oriented, in that their members actively trained in Green Beret as well as Special Forces Schools. Obviously, when one hears the term SEAL, their ears perk up in excitement, due to the rugged reputation. I think Ventura got caught up in the glory of it all and played up the SEAL role for the benefit of his political career.

Wrong. The UDTs don't exist anymore and were merged into the SEALs. Yes Ventura service ended before the merger. So if you want to nitpick I suppose Ventura should have said "I belonged to an elite unit that later was merged into the SEALs and I eventually became a SEAL reservist". If you want to nitpick.

[AuH20]

Wrong. The UDTs don't exist anymore and were merged into the SEALs. Yes Ventura service ended before the merger. So if you want to nitpick I suppose Ventura should have said "I belonged to an elite unit that later was merged into the SEALs and I eventually became a SEAL reservist". If you want to nitpick.

In his own autobiography, he declared he was a member of SEAL Team One. I think it was a case where Ventura added mustard to his exploits.


"The second night we were [at Fort Benning], we snuck out and climbed up their water tower with a can of spray paint, and painted 'SEAL Team One' on the side." (p. 73)

There it is: Jesse was in SEAL Team One. He speaks of his pride as a SEAL: "We're a proud organization. If anyone tries to pretend they're a SEAL, God help them. You have to earn the right to be a SEAL warrior." (p. 81)

[Napolitanic Wars]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8RlPGmFOOo&feature=related

[donnay]

In his own autobiography, he declared he was a member of SEAL Team One. I think it was a case where Ventura added mustard to his exploits.

Did you not see this?



In the mid-1950s, the Navy saw how the UDT's mission had expanded to a broad range of "unconventional warfare", but also that this clashed with the UDT's traditional focus on swimming and diving operations. It was therefore decided to create a new type of unit that would build on the UDT's elite qualities and water-borne expertise, but would add land combat skills, including parachute training and guerrilla/counterinsurgency operations.

These new teams would eventually replace the UDTs. The new force was the United States Navy SEALs. (SEAL for their ability to operate by "Sea-Air-Land".) However, implementation of this program lagged. [15]

Then President John F. Kennedy took office. Kennedy recognized the need for unconventional warfare, and supported the use of special operations forces against guerrilla activity. The Navy moved to establish its role in special operations. In January 1962, SEAL Team One was commissioned. The SEALs expanded their numbers and roles through the 1960s and 1970s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underw...emolition_Team

[Anti Federalist]

Not a SEAL. And it's not even open to debate, despite the fantasy outlined in his autobiography:

Once again, Jesse isn't a bad guy for being UDT as opposed to a SEAL but he should have come clean.

So he was never a SEAL reserve?

[Sullivan*]

There's a point in American (probably world, too) history where even though "sharp shooters" were employed, being one was viewed as highly dishonorable, and it was a duty that NO ONE wanted to perform.

[noneedtoaggress]

Plenty of cops gonna get their "combat qualifications".

:(

[specsaregood]

So he was never a SEAL reserve?

You do realize you are getting trolled, right?

[Anti Federalist]

You do realize you are getting trolled, right?

Trolling right back.

Trolololololololol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3n0vBcW5fc&feature=related

[Wesker1982]

Defending the Undefendable (Chapter 7: The Slanderer and Libeler) by Walter Block


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3vQQBe_02s

http://mises.org/books/defending.pdf

[GeorgiaAvenger]

It is true, Ventura was not a SEAL. He should be more specific.

[donnay]

It is true, Ventura was not a SEAL. He should be more specific.

Prove it!

[donnay]

I can prove Jesse Ventura was a Navy Seal:

Jesse Ventura - BUD/S class 58, served on UDT 12 and Reserve SEAL Team 1. Former pro wrestler, governer of Minnesota. Currently hosts Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Navy_SEALs

So can we stop slandering the man?


More info here (http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1042.htm).

[Feeding the Abscess]

Defending the Undefendable (Chapter 7: The Slanderer and Libeler) by Walter Block


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3vQQBe_02s

http://mises.org/books/defending.pdf

I agree, but it's sweet justice to see a state-sponsored mass murderer potentially fall at the whims of another state fiction.

[AFPVet]

Guys look... if he was lying about being a SEAL, the Navy would be all over him... they aren't.... He's not lying about that... nor this incident.

[Anti Federalist]

Guys look... if he was lying about being a Seal, the Navy would be all over him... they aren't.... He's not lying about that... nor this incident.

Valid point.

He's been saying he was a SEAL for years now, stands to reason the Navy would have put him in check if it wasn't true.

[Wesker1982]

but it's sweet justice to see a state-sponsored mass murderer potentially fall at the whims of another state fiction.

Yeah I was thinking this too. Just thought I should throw out that chapter anyways, just in case.

[slamhead]

Ventura will not prevail. To be successful in a libel or slander case you have to show you suffered financial loss. Lying about someone in and of itself is not tortuous.

[The Free Hornet]

Ventura will not prevail. To be successful in a libel or slander case you have to show you suffered financial loss.

That does not appear to be always true:


What is libel?
Libel is the type of defamation with a permanent record, like a newspaper, a letter, a website posting, an email, a picture, or a radio or TV broadcast. If you can prove that someone libeled you, and that person does not have a good defence (see the section on defences below), then a court will presume that you suffered damages and award you money to pay for your damaged reputation. But going to Supreme Court is expensive and even if you win, you may not get as much as it costs you to sue. In deciding on damages, the Court will consider your position in the community. For example, if you are a professional, damages may be higher.

What is slander?
Slander is the type of defamation with no permanent record. Normally it's a spoken statement. It can also be a hand gesture or something similar. The law treats slander differently than libel: with slander, you have to prove you suffered damages, in the form of financial loss, to get compensation. But with libel, the law presumes you suffered damages. For example, say that Bill told John you were a cheat, and then John refused to do business with you because of that. You sue Bill and prove that you lost business with John because of what Bill said. Bill would have to pay you for the loss of John's business, but not for the general damage to your reputation. It can be very hard to prove this sort of financial loss. That's why most slander cases never go to court.

But in the following four examples, a slander lawsuit may succeed without your proving financial loss. Even though there's no permanent record of the slander, the law will presume damages, as if it were libel, if someone:

accuses you of a crime (unless they made the accusation to the police)
accuses you of having a contagious disease
makes negative remarks about you in your trade or business
accuses you of adultery

http://www.cba.org/bc/public_media/rights/240.aspx


Q. Is there anything that I have to prove in a libel or slander action?

A. In both libel and slander cases, you need to prove that:

The allegations have been published to one or more persons (other than yourself)
The allegations refer to you – either that you are named, pictured or are identifiable in some other way
That the words tend to lower you in the eyes of right thinking members of society.

In slander cases, you will also need to prove that you have suffered financial loss, unless the allegations relate to your profession or an offence punishable by imprisonment.

http://www.rjw.co.uk/legal-services/media-libel-privacy/faqs/

The thread title says he is suing for "libel": "MN - Jesse Ventura sues "American Sniper" author, Chris Kyle, for libel. "

IANAL. Regardless, it may not be hard to prove a financial loss. He could have book sales or TV ratings that took a coinciding dip. He may have offers/roles/interviews/deals which fell through or did not result in a job offer. Wouldn't a jury be the judge of the financial loss issue? Seems like it would be a small burden given how widespread the story was.

[vita3]

"That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Karl Rove

[osan]

He embellished and lied in his autobiography. SEALs were a distinct entity created in the 1980s. He could have said he was a member of UDT and no one would have batted an eye.

SEAL was commissioned in the 60s not the 80s. AFAIR, in the early days all SEAL were UDT but not all UDT were SEAL, which is why they were collectively referred to as UDT/SEAL or SEAL/UDT, depending on who was doing the referring. They were joined in the 80s as I recall, though do not quote me on that. UDT were SEAL progenitors. Their mission was VERY narrow: the underwater infiltration of enemy territory for the sole purpose of planting and detonating explosive devices on enemy vessels, structures, or other (mainly) water-borne assets. They were ultimate sneaky men. They were charged with getting in and out undetected. Modern day ninja in the most literal sense. Their ingress/egress was strictly subsurface, navigating purely by watch and compass. SEALs, by comparison, hold far broader mission scope.

[KingNothing]

Not only that. Let's take a moment to examine the book title . "American Sniper, the Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History." Even if that is true talk about stroking your ego much?

C'mon. You know that he didn't come up with that title on his own.

[Justinfrom1776]

So, you're saying he was NOT a SEAL?

Or that he WAS a SEAL, and played up the role for, it wasn't politics at the time, it would have been his wrestling and acting career?

Yeah, the dude was in Predator.. That goes a lot further in the land where they elect people like Michele Bachmann to congress.

[JK/SEA]

Guys look... if he was lying about being a Seal, the Navy would be all over him... they aren't.... He's not lying about that... nor this incident.

Impersonating a Navy SEAL is against the law, and will get you jail time.

FACT.

Ventura is indeed a SEAL or we would be watching his trial unfold on MSNBC.

[angelatc]

The Navy has two completely different numerical classifications for SEALs (5326) and members of UDT (5321). They are two distinct entities that have specialized roles. UDT was primarily trained for amphibious landing recon and surveillance, while the SEAL program was strike team oriented, in that their members actively trained in Green Beret as well as Special Forces Schools. Obviously, when one hears the term SEAL, their ears perk up in excitement, due to the rugged reputation. I think Ventura got caught up in the glory of it all and played up the SEAL role for the benefit of his political career.

I'm not a Ventura fan, but I gave up this talking point when the Navy said he was indeed allowed to call himself a seal.

[specsaregood]

I'm not a Ventura fan, but I gave up this talking point when the Navy said he was indeed allowed to call himself a seal.

Exactly my position. If the navy says he is entitled to use the title, then I say its all good.

[WilliamC]

Guys, Jesse Ventura was a SEAL before it was cool to be a SEAL.

Sheesh!

[Dissent]

I actually put this guy's book on hold at my library because it sounded good.

[KingNothing]

I hate Jesse Ventura, so it doesn't really matter to me if he was actually a SEAL or not. He's a bully, a self-promoter and a distorted of truth. That's plenty enough material to dislike him.

[pcosmar]

I actually put this guy's book on hold at my library because it sounded good.

If you want to read about someone (regarding heroics in War) Look up Sergeant Alvin York.

A peaceful man (with Pacifist tendencies). He was praised by others,, not by himself.

Chris kyle is NO Sergeant York.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York