Ron Paul in the Ghetto

[Mr. Perfidy]

In my area, there are groups and individuals who do great work trying to spread the gospel of liberty. They give their time and attention and walk miles and speak in front of groups of strangers, compile data and do research. One such research requested of the leg-workers was to draw a map for canvassing that essentially totally avoided any doorsteps that might be "ghetto." I heard all kinds of regrettable justifications for this, among them a great many subtly racist masturbatory remarks that I did not expect in the Liberty movement.

So I got to thinking about why one might draw a map around the ghetto when one really should be drawing maps TO the ghetto, as housing projects, rental-assistance communities, and general urban concentrations of citizens are easily canvassed, high-population density areas presently FILLED WITH PEOPLE who generally DO NOT VOTE! Instead, these well-meaning activists in my area fight tooth and nail over converting a small percent of the general population, from mainstream republican to libertarian/paulian republican. Such small numbers, with the same tired images and demographics. It does nothing to stir the great masses in the direction of liberty; it creates no new electorate, despite the fact that non-voters presently outnumber voters significantly.

And so I propose a means by which the campaign for liberty delivers its message to the ghetto.

haha sadly most start with, "those people..."

...don't want to be free.
...are too reliant on government
...are not educated
...hate republicans / believe in Obama

Fortune favors us in that none of that is true except in the misconceptions of privileged people, largely white and totally terrified of the ghetto. The same people who say, "black" in a whispered tone while checking over their shoulder. I argue that nothing great or significant or historic can emerge from such a timid people. I argue also that nothing positive for america or mankind can result from insulated layers of class cliques consolidating to defend their caste privileges (as the present liberty movement too often appears).

So Ima rip that list down point by point for yous.

"Those people don't want to be free."
It is funny to me that the same people who make this claim typically file permits to install a pool in their yard. When we are talking about the population of the ghetto (I count myself among this population), we are talking about a sub-culture of people raised from the earliest stages of their education to evade law enforcement and trade beyond the protection of regulations and agencies. When we have a problem with a kid in my neighborhood, nobody involves the authorities, because DYFS might smell weed and take your kids, or the officers on the scene might pop you for an outstanding warrant, or any other number of scenarios where the police are understood to be an enemy of your ability to peaceably interact among your people. The state as an enemy of your will is INTERNALIZED more effectively and from earlier ages in the ghetto. And we adapt our language and behavior to carry on with our will without regard to the opinions of the minions of corporate interests and the villains in charge. So we can laugh off claims that we "do not want to be free."

"Those people are too reliant on government."
So living in the ghetto entails a handout of some type. When the other choices are literal starvation or death from preventable diseases, I do not see anything immoral about this; we are not talking about a population of self-sufficient industrialists here with pools of liquid cash and capital goods to start businesses. We are talking about people descended from slaves and serfs from all corners of the earth who started the game with nothing; no networks and legacies or inheritance or investments. Why do people who are born into good school districts (government funded and apportioned, of course), with rapid-response zero-tolerance police patrols (largely dedicated to keeping people from the ghetto out of the neighborhood) believe that they can sit in judgment of people whose choice is public largesse or starvation? Do the free-market, anti-welfare people who decry food stamps and unemployment compete to ride a bus to walk a mile to work for minumum wage? Do they imagine that this pays rent and doctors and costs of living? Do you think that people who receive government assistance are just bursting with happiness to do so, and are perfectly comfortable being an imperial serf for the entirety of their life?

"Those people are not educated."
If we define education as a process of training in the american super-tribe's officially licensed jargon and collective illusion, yes, often enough, the ghetto has almost no education. Education, however, divorced from its newspeak connotation of state mandates, is a property of mankind. It is present in all people at all times in all settings. Perhaps kids have low test scores, or do not speak the queens english properly (the queen aint never been in camden- fuck the monarchy) but this does not mean that they are incapable of using their senses to gather data, or of applying this data to the heat of reason. I would like to see some mainstream Ron Paul mortgage-holding republican folk try and make a name for themselves in the contraband market; sell weed for 3 days, and then try and tell me that the people who naturally extend these networks and make the consumer black market possible are stupid. Talk to a kid in the street about the CIA's role in drug-trafficking, or the role of the Drug War in justifying the institutional incarceration marginalization of black men; they understand these things better at a younger age than the suburban kids with their high-speed internet connections. Our surrounding in the ghettoes are the consequence of government/corporate power games, and we are confronted daily with the evidence of this. It is hard for people in the ghetto NOT to understand, they just do not yet have the language in common with the R3volution to articulate it.

"Those people hate republicans / love Obama."
They do hate them some republicans, this is probably true, but that is because the community republicans DRAW MAPS AROUND THEM, leaving only media republicans to make an impression upon them. If their idea of Republican was "that dude who gave us all those DVDs about fluoride and the creation of AIDS," totally different associations.


So, we should be going into the ghettoes. Locate, penetrate, and replicate in centers of human networks. You see a group standing around in the lot, engage them. They will have 2 or 3 philosophers and talkers and then a group of followers, the same dynamic as our own movement and all human groupings. Talk to them, and you will find that they are quite educated regarding the abuses of the State. And their follower posse will go along with whatever seems to move their leaders in the group, just as in all human groupings. We are fortunate in that in the ghetto, these groups are visible, approachable, and geographically concentrated. I can spend one day on foot and talk to maybe 15-20 such groups, all of whom represent an additional number of individuals who go with the flow, as in any human grouping. Dozens and dozens and dozens of votes in every apartment village, all new votes to counter the entrenched suburban mainstream GOP dipshits.

I will follow with some tactical suggestions and points, but for now, fill yourselves with the theory, as my wife just returned from work, and I must log off.

[bbwarfield]

I agree whole heartedly.... I use to live in the ghetto.... now i live in the semi ghetto.

Im white.... attended college. I live there cause I can afford to..... i moved "up" when i could afford that too.

The only reason for the "drawing the line" is..... to be honest... it can be dangerous. I sold books door to door.... and even though in "my ghetto" i was fine and safe... but when i went into one i didnt live in? i really did feel like i was taking my life in my hands.

It's our fault we are not welcome.... but the truth is alot of the time we are still not welcome... i hope and pray that does not always remain the same

[Working Poor]

I know more ghetto Ron Paul supporters than rich white dude supporters. I see Ron Paul signs in the ghetto too. Course Obama is still big there too.

[Hyperion]

Agreed. I teach in inner city schools. If you frame the debate without labels, people of different ethnic backgrounds are open to the message.

[Mr. Perfidy]

it will not let me post until I have 3 because it is prohibiting "links or images" (My post features neither so wtf) anyway, here is my 3rd post.

[Mr. Perfidy]

Man, 4 pages in right away? Weakness.

So I meant to discuss the political atmosphere in the ghetto, and to define and clarify some terms; when I say ghetto, I mean the public housing and/or private complexes paid for with public money by rental assistance and similar programs, where people who receive all kinds of benefits and handouts are concentrated (I suspect in NJ they move this around to manipulate property values). When typical GOP types say "ghetto" though, they often mean ANY apartment complexes and concentrations of young / unmarried people or really anyone without a mortgage and a moustache. I would make a distinction and say that these places are indeed Proletarian (in the Orwell, 1984 sense of the word), but are not the ghetto.

But for the sake of our mission, I am calling all proletarian housing "the ghetto." So comeon people- how do we turn the proles into a political weapon? There are so many of them, and typically, they are not politically developed. Every other doorstep will have a story about how the state has failed them, abused them, some kind of grievance. It is universal.

So I am talking now with some people in my area about how to go around my neighborhood and gather support- pull people into the orbit of the R3volution. There are some legal implications to the details, as many neighborhoods now that the weather warms will be spotted with the smoke signals of would-be revolutionaries, but we will stick to the lawful methods and strategies. (I would bet though that my wife vs whoever from the corner in a blunt rolling contest would be quite a pleasant spectacle)

to reiterate our own strategy of our own meetup group for you: Locate, penetrate, and replicate in centers of human networks.


- depending on the demographic pursued, the targets will always be different; I am talking to another RP guy who lives next to a 55+ community, and we are now trying to identify their GOP club leadership that we might approach them to invite us to host a presentation in their meeting room. In the case of winning over the Proles though, we are probably not going to find a previously organized politically motivated clique. Not with a name and charter and shit anyway- proletarian smokers though will note that every circle has their politically minded alex jones grown type of stoners, and they are my targets. Find people in your movement who already know these individuals, and go into the villages with them, to meet these people and set up shop. In villages without established personal connections, it is still not hard to locate these kinds of circles; I do not think that I have ever smoked a cigarette on the sidewalk near a dot shop without running into a whiff of them. Buy a bag of tobacco and a lil thumb roller and be generous with your handouts and there is never a shortage of an audience.

To successfully campaign there, we must impress upon the village populations that we are for real; you can't send people who will invite negative psychological reflexes. I am talking image here, and presence. Focus on compatibility and relatability. I know all about eviction notices and being robbed and unfair victimization at the hands of the police, and so I myself am leading this effort in my area. We need similar individuals in all districts. That is to say, identify and exclude the closet-racist little neo-con people. That should be an easy selection process, since they tend to hate on the very idea of going into the villages and exclude themselves. Good. Fuck 'em- after the 2012 election, they will be brushed aside and left out of the greater r3volution.

Actions/Programs:

Here we (myself and the individuals on this project) have only some vague brain-storming and suggestions, as it is a new idea that we are only now developing. But, we have already talked about the role of media- we have to be armed with all kinds of goodies for everyone, so that people can go from our talks on the sidewalk to their living rooms and get reinforcement in the form of DVDs or audio CDs. To this end, we need good movies. Entertaining, informative, simple, and brief. Tailor the messages to the audience, find messengers to whom the villages will relate (The Obama Deception, for example, features KRS-1 at the very beginning, which was smart). So we need a list today, and links, to videos that fit the bill, to be burned and distributed.

I intend to address the haters / gain legitimacy with some rap. Ima spit for the Dr! If anyone else is aware of this approach being tried elsewhere, please feed the community links so we can draw on that. Once we are up and running, my own group will have videos to contribute so we can demonstrate what I mean.

what we need

Leaflets & Videos focusing on issues that resonate in the ghetto and among the proles. That is to say, nothing whatsoever having to do with the national debt, with property taxes and market intrusions. Maybe something like, "How the Government Messes With:" and then whatever- education, medicine, the family, business. Obviously focus on THE WAR ON DRUGS. We will find a lot of allies when we make it clear that only ONE candidate is trying to make pot legal. ONE candidate opposes laws that are only on the books so that black guys can be reliably pulled over and arrested. These messages resonate if we frame the discussion around them. Locally, our family courts are a joke, and I want to explore this more, because all of my friends with kids hate the way that is handled. Your own districts must have their own issues that are generally regarded as irksome and illogical and abusive.

voter registration forms If you are in a state not yet past its deadline, register as many as possible- in NJ, unaffiliated voters can declare themselves Republicans on primary day and vote, so, I am avoiding the always momentum-killing, "Register republican," which does tend to turn off proletarians. Once a base is built up we can make that more clear to won-over supporters, who will carry that message for us.

civic-minded volunteers: That is, the guys or gals in your group who know the ins and outs of polling places, district lines, deadlines, etc. We have a whole wing in our movement that fits this bill, and I view our prole outreach largely as a way of extending their audience and influence into communities that are unschooled in these finer details.

[tfurrh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw

[Working Poor]

It might be good to call the different churches to see i they can allow you to hold a meet up it might be safer than going door to door or, you could set up in a store or other business parking lot. People in the Ghettos hang on to what little privacy they can and strangers just walking up around their homes could alarm them. Bus stops might be a good place to stop and talk with people too if you see a good crowd waiting for the bus.

You can get voter registration cards too and help people register to vote.

[Mr. Perfidy]

nobody seen any such outreach?

[Mr. Perfidy]

WP- good point, but I should emphasise that I am not talking about a buncha narc lookin homeowners going and doing this. I am just going to go around to the same groups that I smoke with that know my face or know me already, and then trade in the future on that name through those networks.

[Mr. Perfidy]

But the churches are a good idea- excellently aligned with the mission of working within existing networks and already-organized groups.

[dancjm]

We will all be in the Ghetto soon. :(

[Mr. Perfidy]

EXACTLY!

The R3volution needs to lead the way in eradicating the stigma of the ghetto, since most of the villages and environments I am talking about are increasingly filled with the children of the former middle-class/mortgage holders anyway.

[TheGrinch]

The only reason for the "drawing the line" is..... to be honest... it can be dangerous. I sold books door to door.... and even though in "my ghetto" i was fine and safe... but when i went into one i didnt live in? i really did feel like i was taking my life in my hands.

It's our fault we are not welcome.... but the truth is alot of the time we are still not welcome... i hope and pray that does not always remain the same
This. I've lived near the ghetto too, and met plenty from there, but sorry, I don't feel safe going around knocking doors, when there still does exist an understandable disdain for "the man", even if that hatred might be misplaced on messengers like us at times... People from the ghetto can be naturally distrusting and even antagonistic to someone besides their own going around their neighborhoods, for really whatever reason.

So I find it highly offensive that the OP is trying to paint this out as issue of racism with the "those people" remarks. We're individualists, not collectivists here, but we do recognize that there are areas where you as the messenger are embarking into dangerous territory. That doesn't mean to stop getting disadvantaged people to listen, but similar to a rich gated community with a "no soliciting" sign, you have to be realistic that your message might not be taken so kindly in some of these areas either.

[Mr. Perfidy]

I was under the impression that this forum was a ready source of publishing materials and videos; someone please provide me and our efforts with clever little printouts about Ron Paul's Drug War policy / indictment of the racist nature of drug prosecutions. Ditto for morsels regarding education and the imperial wars.

[Mr. Perfidy]

This. I've lived near the ghetto too, and met plenty from there, but sorry, I don't feel safe going around knocking doors, when there still does exist an understandable disdain for "the man", even if that hatred might be misplaced on messengers like us at times... People from the ghetto can be naturally distrusting and even antagonistic to someone besides their own going around their neighborhoods, for really whatever reason.

truth- I live in the ghetto though, and this essentially aligns my social networks. Perhaps I was not clear- I am not asking the straights to pack a lunch and head into the projects. I am saying that existing ron paul people already in such networks need to craft a solid policy aimed at including and recruiting their neighbors.


So I find it highly offensive that the OP is trying to paint this out as issue of racism with the "those people" remarks. We're individualists, not collectivists here,

I put them in quotes because I have heard ron paul / libertarian people say all of those things. They represent the common objections to bringing activism into the lower economic strata. And a lot of them just ARE RACISTS. That is one of the problems.


but we do recognize that there are areas where you as the messenger are embarking into dangerous territory. That doesn't mean to stop getting disadvantaged people to listen, but similar to a rich gated community with a "no soliciting" sign, you have to be realistic that your message might not be taken so kindly in some of these areas either.

I agree, and advocate this policy for people who are hanging out smokin blunts in parking lots with other unemployed assistance recipients anyway

[ZanZibar]

If you're trying to get votes, you have to go where the voters are... that typicaly means the suburbs.

[LopTarDaBoo]

Buy a bag of tobacco and a lil thumb roller and be generous with your handouts and there is never a shortage of an audience.

Any thread suggesting this sort of clever campaigning this way deserves some recognition. :) Our message has universal appeal and we shouldn't sell it short, or assume it doesn't fly in some neighborhoods.

In defense of the "closet-racist little neo-con people", it takes a special kind of talent to go into a totally foreign neighborhood and spread a political message. For some people a neighborhood of banker and defense contractor welfare cases would be just as intimidating to politic in as any "ghetto".

We should encourage each other to work out of our comfort zones from time to time and see if we're missing potential supporters. Hope you can make that happen in NJ Mr. Perfidy.

[LopTarDaBoo]

Mr. Perfidy there are plenty of Youtube videos of Ron Paul on the drug wars, but I don't know how effective they'd be for CD distribution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3EADdr-5AY

Ron has some official campaign material issue cards, but I don't see any related to the drug war.

On homeschooling:
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/store/slim-jim-4x9-issue-card-packs/standing-up-for-homeschooling-issue-cards-pack-of-100/

Here's a decent supporter-made handout that compares Obama and Paul. You may be better off going this route and making something yourself, since you know your audience best.

http://i.imgur.com/DYBVw.jpg

[xFiFtyOnE]

I'm poor. I live in I guess what would be considered a lower-middle class neighborhood. I myself fall onto the borderline of "working class" and "lower-middle class", depending on the class model you use. Not quite the "ghetto" I guess, but getting closer all the time with this economy. The few people I know that support Ron Paul are about the same class as me.

[Mr. Perfidy]

If you're trying to get votes, you have to go where the voters are... that typicaly means the suburbs.

in any population, the suburbs take up a huge amount of space and have maybe 2 voters in each house. In the proletarian apartment villages, in a very small area, there are hundreds and hundreds of potential voters- that they dont vote now is BETTER FOR US, because we are not wasting our time and energy on small numbers of contested fence-sitters, we are fielding fresh troops from every corner. It can't be defeated if all of a sudden there are a thousand new voters in a district with the same agenda.

I wrote and distributed/spit this in Philly at the occupation, and it was generally well received. It is an appeal to the socialist leaning kids toward free market education, and something similar will I believe work as a ghetto campaign strategy.

The great depression,
my bong is empty.
Roaches broke up,
even my resin's left me.
But Ima get a Twenty.
my man Andy
got fat dubs.
Competitors
be sellin no drugs
cuz his prices
affordin' mad love.
My man Andy
got that quality.
The market tests it
regularly.
Enthusiastically.
Unelected,
self-appointed,
consumer body.
I got 20 bills
for a ballot.
Pinch my bag
or gimme shit
and trip
and you can't
have it.
I am regulation
and inspection,
weights-
and-measures.
because I am inherently
invested
in my own protection.
I got the empty hand,
so supply my demand-
I thought you kids of all people
would by now understand-
if you gettin' high,
it's because a capitalist planned.
my man andy
got the hook-up,
he has ill shit.
But he don't work
for free kid,
he a capitalist!
*for real people- no shortage of people on the block competin to meet our demand; we negotiate exchange rates and opportunity cost, assume risk, and traffic in commodities. We don't need regulations where we have reputations- if you're gettin high, you're a capitalist too*

[Nirvikalpa]

Mr. Perfidy, I see you are from NJ. Would you be referring to certain areas of Union, Essex, Hudson, and Camden County?

[Mr. Perfidy]

i am in camden county, and went to Rowan for like 8 years, so I know a lot of Gloucester county people also. I was raised however in monmouth county, so I am also familiar with some circles up there, and into NY through friends that radiated northward rather than down here after graduation.

[ZanZibar]

. It can't be defeated if all of a sudden there are a thousand new voters in a district with the same agenda.
People in American ghettos don't vote in any signifigant quantity. That's just human nature. Trying to sign people up to vote in order to win an election is a losing strategy. You have to get people who are already voting to vote for your candidate. That's how elections are won.

[Shelton88]

I think all the problems you mention branch off of Education. I grew up in a black neighborhood (im white), and went to a almost all black middle/high school. I was far from the richest boy in school but i wasn't the poorest. I learned nothing in school, not a damn thing! I went, but i never listened because i didn't have to, the test where pretty much common since. I know have a college education and can understand when obama, santorum, gingrich, and mittens are full of shit. I can understand why the welfare state only hurts myself, and others. I may have never made it out of the trap that the government set up, this i have the military to thanks. Our government, and the lack of educated people in this country, is who we need to thank for the economic/liberty disaster we are currently in.

http://news.yahoo.com/people-arent-smart-enough-democracy-flourish-scientists-185601411.html -A interesting read

[Mr. Perfidy]

People in American ghettos don't vote in any signifigant quantity. That's just human nature. Trying to sign people up to vote in order to win an election is a losing strategy. You have to get people who are already voting to vote for your candidate. That's how elections are won.

I dont know man- we have a pretty dedicated and hardcore group of old-school libertarians and constitutionalists around here that make a go in every local election cycle, and none of them have won since I have been involved (2007 or so). It is because they spend all of their time chasing down the 60 voters from the last election, and spend no time on the thousands of people who share a fear of the abuse of the state and have yet to be approached by anyone claiming to represent them.

[ZanZibar]

I dont know man- we have a pretty dedicated and hardcore group of old-school libertarians and constitutionalists around here that make a go in every local election cycle, and none of them have won since I have been involved (2007 or so). It is because they spend all of their time chasing down the 60 voters from the last election, and spend no time on the thousands of people who share a fear of the abuse of the state and have yet to be approached by anyone claiming to represent them.Do any Republican primary campaigns actively campaign in the ghetto?

[Mr. Perfidy]

that is what I am saying- no, despite the fact that in our state, any registered voter without a Party affiliation (a lot of them), can just go declare a party on the day of the primary, for the purpose of putting up their own candidate. Its a built in mechanism by which we can hijack bullshit establishment hacks.

[jmdrake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9w4M2pzcxg

[palm]

Im originally form Newark Nj, I lived there 18 years in the "ghetto" which is a collectivist term, it is either the city or not. Ghetto is a horrible word.

I was just thinking today how racist my current town is and if I could ever escape the stigma of being a 4.0 college black kid in the "ghetto". Listen its not bad or dangerous.

When I lived in Newark Mormons went door to door everywhere asnd approached us when we were in very shady places, trying to convert us, and they had me in their church, a roughneck black kid.

And they were mostly racist themselves.

Stop resisting black people and turn your white guilt into passion for the RP campaign

Grow a sack.

That is all.

[AFPVet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw

Elvis was just getting better and better... this song along with Suspicious Minds and a couple of others were awesome!

[palm]

/thread.

[Mr. Perfidy]

nah man there are ghetto areas of the suburbs- maybe where you are now does not fit this pattern like in south nj, but maybe 10 years ago they started moving people out of the public housing and apartments in the cities (with Eminent Domain abuse) and relocating the populations to little villages in regular suburbs. Now, every town or so has the mortgage-holding fenced-in-yard populations, and then somewhere on a main road, a series of apartment complexes reserved for people on various forms of public assistance.

also note the emergent "Drug Zone" laws and the mad racist law enforcement policy surrounding them. There are cops in Camden who are LITERALLY PAID TO KEEP WHITE PEOPLE OUT OF TOWN! That is a ghetto in the most literal and horrible term, as in, Warsaw Ghetto, a neighborhood designated by the State as populated with criminals and forbidden to right and lawful citizens. Police Departments in south jersey now get EMails from the Camden City cops whose surveillance notice suburbanites in parts of the city- the local police are alerted that someone in their area is visiting "drug zones." Maybe I am reaching here, but I would wager that in a few years, this idea will expand, and "drug zones" will just become code for, "black people areas." Certainly the people in my area lead me to believe that they would accept this as totally logical and not at all problematic. After all, the incidents of kids under the influence demands of citizens an increasing vigilance.

[speciallyblend]

nice thread and post, couldn't resist.


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGaycIKqC6A)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oK1hBq467E<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oK1hBq467E">
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oK1hBq467E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oK1hBq467E)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw

[Mr. Perfidy]

I should add a personal anecdote- maybe a year ago, at a liberty-minded, but not ron paul centered area presentation (regarding Agenda 21), I spoke to 2 John Birch Society members about how they are ignoring the poor neighborhoods in their canvassing, ignoring all renters really, as if they do not matter or cannot understand what might be happening. I added that this would bring in the blacks that they themselves claim to wish were more present at meetings.

Both of these men physically retreated as I spoke to them (I knew both personally, so I wasnt just a weird stranger). One of them backed up until he bumped into desks and had to cease retreating. The other excused himself, went to the bathroom, and shit! For real- I went in there to see if my idea did in fact scare the shit out of him, and sure enough- literally did.

[idiom]

People in American ghettos don't vote in any signifigant quantity. That's just human nature. Trying to sign people up to vote in order to win an election is a losing strategy. You have to get people who are already voting to vote for your candidate. That's how elections are won.

That's American nature not human nature.

In New Zealand our turn out is 76-90% of the population. The 'States only have 30-50%.

The Salvation Army has a slogan, "Go for souls and go for the worst". Prisoners can't vote, but ghettoes are close enough. These populations have been systematically criminalised, exploited, defrauded and persecuted. It is the natural place for us.

[carclinic]

We are going to lose this war because we have a ticking demographic time bomb, that barring a revival among the lower SES deographic an atypically large proportion:

-Not hardworking
No one is going to starve by not taking food stamps, at least for now in America. I run into homeless people all the time that are not in-want for food. They want drugs and alcohol maybe, but not food.

So, if you have this mentality that everything is owed to you because you are "oppressed," how are you going to be a functioning member of society that will work a job and help people other than yourself in your community?

-Are lax morally (drugs, sex, crime, not respecting their elders, no parents at home)
I'm not going to waste time quoting statistics, you know its true. It isn't normal that if you're a male your whole life should be about smoking weed and getting laid. That's an extremely selfish and worthless life. Yet, that IS the average black male in the United States. My brother is marrying into a black family and that is the case. My best friend is hispanic, and they are not as much as a weed culture, but they love partying and getting laid, pretty much all of them. That's why they don't have stable families nor the careers necessary for self-directed social uplift.

So what's the alternative? The immoral decision to be a government parasite, just like the plutocratic thieves that make up our mostly white/jewish/asian upper class.

-Enjoy being uneducated
Chris Rock probably said it best that, "A ****** loves not to know." I was teaching tenth graders that did not know where America was on a map. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM. I mean, come on, you are not the least bit curious about where we live, where the pyramids in Egypt are, etcetera? These kids grow up watchng movies (because let's get real, movies and TV ARE HUGE in the ghetto) about teachers that magically make all the kids smart all of the suddent, unleashing their "hidden talent."

As for me, I have no hidden talent. I bump along, working hard to learn everything I know. However, if I had this mentality that someone else can magically turn a switch in me and I didn't have to apply myself, I'd be just like the vast majority of my former students.

So, these kids blame everyone but themselves for the fact that they are uneducated, and because it hurts ones feelings to have a defecit in something, it is easier just to as a subculture discount education as a whole.

Now, I never saw kids pick on the kids that liked to learn. In fact, they were quite supportive of such students, who they viewed as a curiosity...


AND THAT'S MY POINT. It's not that blacks, hispanics, or anyone who is "poor" is necessarily bad for not emulating the behaviors and ethics of a civilized society which is crumbling among all social classes. It's that civilized behavior is a curiosity to them because they do not know it AT ALL. The members of their own community that are honest and hard working people, like my best friend, are like aliens to them. They're like, "How did you get here???"

To me, libertarianism and true conservatism is the bedrock of a moral and functioning civilization. If we have a society full of a bunch of lazy and selfish bastards that don't care about immorality, crime, education, and the sort, they are fresh meat for subjugation from a plutocratic class via the government. And that's exactly what we see happening today.


Probably the chief cause of all of this is the lack of fatherhood among the msotly black and hispanic demographic. But any lower SES background, rural or urban, is hard to tell apart aside from the fact I would say that blacks are probably the most violently racist of all the different ethnicity, thus hardest to reason with because they hate you so much they won't respect you.

I worked in several inner cities schools, and the truth might hurt some people, but I know first hand how badly we need a revival in this country. Its not a race thing. The same is happening to whites for a generation now and it will destroy our country.

[fisharmor]

Wow.... just, wow.


-Not hardworking
No one is going to starve by not taking food stamps, at least for now in America. I run into homeless people all the time that are not in-want for food. They want drugs and alcohol maybe, but not food.

So, if you have this mentality that everything is owed to you because you are "oppressed," how are you going to be a functioning member of society that will work a job and help people other than yourself in your community?
The clue train you missed was Mr. Perfidy's explanations that capitalism is alive and well and in its rawest, purest form in the ghetto.
If anything, they understand BETTER how to make a buck than your average business owner. They know that taxes and regulation only serve to get in the way of their ventures. The message we offer - "We want to stop throwing you in prison for running businesses" - would be received well.
Drugs exist out side the legal framework of running a business because they're illegal.
If you remove that legal framework, and make it so that running ANY business follows the same model that they're using for drugs, then you're going to see other businesses crop up in the ghetto, guaranteed.
Put simply, they're not "hardworking" because hardworking as you define it is "enjoying having the state's dick firmly lodged in their mouths".


-Are lax morally (drugs, sex, crime, not respecting their elders, no parents at home)
I'm not going to waste time quoting statistics, you know its true. It isn't normal that if you're a male your whole life should be about smoking weed and getting laid. That's an extremely selfish and worthless life. Yet, that IS the average black male in the United States. My brother is marrying into a black family and that is the case. My best friend is hispanic, and they are not as much as a weed culture, but they love partying and getting laid, pretty much all of them. That's why they don't have stable families nor the careers necessary for self-directed social uplift.

So what's the alternative? The immoral decision to be a government parasite, just like the plutocratic thieves that make up our mostly white/jewish/asian upper class.
Utter horseshit.
First of all, don't pretend like drugs and sex are immoral in and of themselves. If that's the case then the fact that I fucked my wife and had a beer with her afterward last night mean I'm no better than the people you decry. And I'm Irish and she's German and Slavic.

Second, I work in an IT company, there are nine people in my department, four are white, three are black (another black guy left for a BETTER position recently), one is Nepali, one is Peruvian, and one is Korean.
The entire company is filled with the underclasses which aren't part of the plutocrats. There is a simple reason: they can't get security clearances. We are a free market company providing services fairly completely outside the state's influence. Our employees get paid a market wage.
If you want to talk about plutocrats, how about addressing the cold, hard fact that state agencies and contractors (who offer no value to society) only hire the anointed for their overpaid positions?
I believe in markets to handle issues of race inequality because I am living it. If you think some kid who grew up in the ghetto with an alcoholic mother and friends who all smoked weed is suddenly going to become a plutocrat because he has a piece of sheepskin, you need to rethink that position. He has zero chance of breaking into that caste - but if we changed things to allow for market forces to clean up society, he'd have a damned good chance of becoming a captain of industry - or at least an assistant to one.


-Enjoy being uneducated
Chris Rock probably said it best that, "A ****** loves not to know." I was teaching tenth graders that did not know where America was on a map. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM. I mean, come on, you are not the least bit curious about where we live, where the pyramids in Egypt are, etcetera? These kids grow up watchng movies (because let's get real, movies and TV ARE HUGE in the ghetto) about teachers that magically make all the kids smart all of the suddent, unleashing their "hidden talent."
And those teachers are the sum of the problem. Hey look, this system is failing miserably - it can't possibly be the system to blame, so it has to be the teachers! All we need is to find someone who cares enough!
Bullshit. All we need to do is tear down those programming centers and leave them to themselves.
If someone in the ghetto can make a buck knowing where the pyramids are, he's going to learn it. The only reason for him to know it before that is either out of intellectual curiosity, or because some mean old bat expected a pavlovian response to "where are the pyramids" during year four of their obedience conditioning. Which conditioning I'm pretty sure they can see right through... that, I believe, is the problem.


So, these kids blame everyone but themselves for the fact that they are uneducated, and because it hurts ones feelings to have a defecit in something, it is easier just to as a subculture discount education as a whole.
I can completely understand why they do it. Education isn't even pretending to be education. It's a bunch of unrelated facts and figures that get dumped into your head. If you memorize them, you get a gold star. If you don't, you get a frowny face.
There's no effort to get them to think for themselves or otherwise relate to anything meaningful in their lives. How come nobody in the ghetto thinks to teach electronics by repairing someone's fucked up XBox laser (and saving that kid $300), or teach chemistry by learning how to reload 40sw cartridges? Because education isn't the point, is why.


AND THAT'S MY POINT. It's not that blacks, hispanics, or anyone who is "poor" is necessarily bad for not emulating the behaviors and ethics of a civilized society which is crumbling among all social classes. It's that civilized behavior is a curiosity to them because they do not know it AT ALL. The members of their own community that are honest and hard working people, like my best friend, are like aliens to them. They're like, "How did you get here???"
What is "civilized"? Seems to me like you're defining it as "having successfully completed the state's bald-faced youth conditioning, refraining from basic pleasures in life, and working hard (although not necessarily smart)".


To me, libertarianism and true conservatism is the bedrock of a moral and functioning civilization. If we have a society full of a bunch of lazy and selfish bastards that don't care about immorality, crime, education, and the sort, they are fresh meat for subjugation from a plutocratic class via the government. And that's exactly what we see happening today.
The brilliant thing about what Mr. Perfidy is doing is that he's working within the context of what you claim is the source of their ills.
If we ignore what we consider to be immorality (it is not, necessarily), ignore what we consider to be crime (it probably isn't), ignore what we consider education (ditto), and focus on the fact that the state is actively fucking them and they know it, that can translate into votes.


Probably the chief cause of all of this is the lack of fatherhood among the msotly black and hispanic demographic. But any lower SES background, rural or urban, is hard to tell apart aside from the fact I would say that blacks are probably the most violently racist of all the different ethnicity, thus hardest to reason with because they hate you so much they won't respect you.
Yeah, I grew up thinking this.... and every single black person I've interacted with in my adult life has surprised me. Hm... I wonder how I learned as a kid to fear people who spurned the path I was on, that path the state anointed as correct?

[Butchie]

Man, 4 pages in right away? Weakness.

So I meant to discuss the political atmosphere in the ghetto, and to define and clarify some terms; when I say ghetto, I mean the public housing and/or private complexes paid for with public money by rental assistance and similar programs, where people who receive all kinds of benefits and handouts are concentrated (I suspect in NJ they move this around to manipulate property values). When typical GOP types say "ghetto" though, they often mean ANY apartment complexes and concentrations of young / unmarried people or really anyone without a mortgage and a moustache. I would make a distinction and say that these places are indeed Proletarian (in the Orwell, 1984 sense of the word), but are not the ghetto.

But for the sake of our mission, I am calling all proletarian housing "the ghetto." So comeon people- how do we turn the proles into a political weapon? There are so many of them, and typically, they are not politically developed. Every other doorstep will have a story about how the state has failed them, abused them, some kind of grievance. It is universal.

So I am talking now with some people in my area about how to go around my neighborhood and gather support- pull people into the orbit of the R3volution. There are some legal implications to the details, as many neighborhoods now that the weather warms will be spotted with the smoke signals of would-be revolutionaries, but we will stick to the lawful methods and strategies. (I would bet though that my wife vs whoever from the corner in a blunt rolling contest would be quite a pleasant spectacle)

to reiterate our own strategy of our own meetup group for you: Locate, penetrate, and replicate in centers of human networks.


- depending on the demographic pursued, the targets will always be different; I am talking to another RP guy who lives next to a 55+ community, and we are now trying to identify their GOP club leadership that we might approach them to invite us to host a presentation in their meeting room. In the case of winning over the Proles though, we are probably not going to find a previously organized politically motivated clique. Not with a name and charter and shit anyway- proletarian smokers though will note that every circle has their politically minded alex jones grown type of stoners, and they are my targets. Find people in your movement who already know these individuals, and go into the villages with them, to meet these people and set up shop. In villages without established personal connections, it is still not hard to locate these kinds of circles; I do not think that I have ever smoked a cigarette on the sidewalk near a dot shop without running into a whiff of them. Buy a bag of tobacco and a lil thumb roller and be generous with your handouts and there is never a shortage of an audience.

To successfully campaign there, we must impress upon the village populations that we are for real; you can't send people who will invite negative psychological reflexes. I am talking image here, and presence. Focus on compatibility and relatability. I know all about eviction notices and being robbed and unfair victimization at the hands of the police, and so I myself am leading this effort in my area. We need similar individuals in all districts. That is to say, identify and exclude the closet-racist little neo-con people. That should be an easy selection process, since they tend to hate on the very idea of going into the villages and exclude themselves. Good. Fuck 'em- after the 2012 election, they will be brushed aside and left out of the greater r3volution.

Actions/Programs:

Here we (myself and the individuals on this project) have only some vague brain-storming and suggestions, as it is a new idea that we are only now developing. But, we have already talked about the role of media- we have to be armed with all kinds of goodies for everyone, so that people can go from our talks on the sidewalk to their living rooms and get reinforcement in the form of DVDs or audio CDs. To this end, we need good movies. Entertaining, informative, simple, and brief. Tailor the messages to the audience, find messengers to whom the villages will relate (The Obama Deception, for example, features KRS-1 at the very beginning, which was smart). So we need a list today, and links, to videos that fit the bill, to be burned and distributed.

I intend to address the haters / gain legitimacy with some rap. Ima spit for the Dr! If anyone else is aware of this approach being tried elsewhere, please feed the community links so we can draw on that. Once we are up and running, my own group will have videos to contribute so we can demonstrate what I mean.

what we need

Leaflets & Videos focusing on issues that resonate in the ghetto and among the proles. That is to say, nothing whatsoever having to do with the national debt, with property taxes and market intrusions. Maybe something like, "How the Government Messes With:" and then whatever- education, medicine, the family, business. Obviously focus on THE WAR ON DRUGS. We will find a lot of allies when we make it clear that only ONE candidate is trying to make pot legal. ONE candidate opposes laws that are only on the books so that black guys can be reliably pulled over and arrested. These messages resonate if we frame the discussion around them. Locally, our family courts are a joke, and I want to explore this more, because all of my friends with kids hate the way that is handled. Your own districts must have their own issues that are generally regarded as irksome and illogical and abusive.

voter registration forms If you are in a state not yet past its deadline, register as many as possible- in NJ, unaffiliated voters can declare themselves Republicans on primary day and vote, so, I am avoiding the always momentum-killing, "Register republican," which does tend to turn off proletarians. Once a base is built up we can make that more clear to won-over supporters, who will carry that message for us.

civic-minded volunteers: That is, the guys or gals in your group who know the ins and outs of polling places, district lines, deadlines, etc. We have a whole wing in our movement that fits this bill, and I view our prole outreach largely as a way of extending their audience and influence into communities that are unschooled in these finer details.

Ron went to the ghetto here in Detroit (well actually Highland Park) and very few blacks even showed up, it was the only empty Ron Paul event I ever saw.

[ZanZibar]

The Salvation Army has a slogan, "Go for souls and go for the worst". Prisoners can't vote, but ghettoes are close enough. These populations have been systematically criminalised, exploited, defrauded and persecuted. It is the natural place for us.No, in the US, people who live in poverty tend not to vote. Therefore it is a waste of time if you are trying to win an election by campaigning in impoverished areas.

[Mr. Perfidy]

But no one campaigns there, therefore, they do not vote...who steps up among them and says, "Hey I wanna represent you?"

I just walked up to my job to pick up my paycheck- I head down the block a bit to grab some cigarette filters, and notice a car parked out front that I saw miles back, in front of my apartment complex. A girl was getting in, so I said, "Yo didnt I just see your car back at (apartment complex name)?"

She was happy to be noticed and said yes- so I was faced with either turning and walking the mile or so back home, or, asking her for a ride.

"Can I ride back with you? Lemme just grab a blunt?"

She accepted happily, and I got a ride home AND a new connect out of it. I put her on my list, now that I have her number. I am home to make coffee and then I will be sampling her market offerings and discussing with her the virtues of the free market and free association, as she has so kindly demonstrated today. This will lead into a discussion of the good Dr. I am confident also that, as she is a market actor in my apartments, her own apartment is a little hub of activity that will grant me access to many more minds, each with their own hubs in many directions all over the county.

[Mr. Perfidy]

and yo everything carclinic said is exactly why it is hard to break the ice in these demographics. Why do you imagine stupid shit about newsletters gains traction so easily? Because everyone who knows a libertarian knows one like that, who is vocal and ridiculous.

[Mr. Perfidy]

yo he killed my thread : (

[Captain Shays]

I think I would be more interested in showing them videos outlining the direction of this country and forming alliances with people in "the ghetto" to fight the government WITH on my side when things fall apart. After all, many of them already have guns and a deep distrust of the "authorities" and many of them are pretty tough.
I think this country is totally screwed and it's getting to a point where just one major "terrorist attack" or one major outbreak of a pandemic or chemical attack or even a solar storm that takes out our electrical grid and it's Marshall Law time. A lot of people won't want to go along with the program and I don't want to have to fight the government and minorities. I want minorities on my side against the govenrment fighting for freedom.
So even though I would support canvassing for the liberty message my other motive would be to form coalitions.
Maybe I shouldn't be talking like this around here because I might make you guys look bad but I am very cynical these days about the direction of this country and the state of my government.
Sorry, but I am losing hope in the campaign and fixing any problems. I just want to arm up at this point, store up some food and water and get my bug out rig ready to split for my secret plce in the New Jersey Pine Barrens. I sure wouldn't mind some of the "brothers" coming along with me.

[Captain Shays]

For the record. In the last campaign me and a friend went into Camden with a ladder placing Ron Paul signs. The ladder was so that the anti Ron Paulites couldn't easily take down my signs.

Have you guys ever had your signs taken down withing minutes of you putting them up? That is easily counter-acted by forcing the scumbags to bring their own frigging ladder to reach your signs which they never do. lol

This is a great thread with a great idea. Too bad we're so late in acting on this becuase a little known demographic fact about New Jersey is that we have more registered independent voters than Democrat and Republican COMBINED and we could have registered a lot of people in time to make the NJ primary. I was only able to get a few in my circles.......well, I lost my job campaigning during working hours when a lady called my boss complaining about me. Oh well. I guess I can count my future losses in revenue as campaign contributions? Ron Paul would understand

[Voluntary Man]

As the snow flies
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
Another new paulite poor is born
In the ghetto

And his mama smiles
Cause if there's one thing that she don't need
It's another generation of welfare slavery
In the ghetto

People, don't you understand
New paulites needs a helping hand
Or they'll become angry disillusioned voters some day
Take a look at you and me,
Are we too blind to see,
Do we simply turn our heads
And look the other way
Well the world turns
And a new paulite's enthusiasm grows
As he canvasses the streets as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto

And his knowledge burns
So he starts to canvass the clubs at night
And he learns how to debate
And he learns how to fight
In the ghetto

Come election day in desperation
A the new paulite world all day
He back and forth he drives far,
Hauling friends to vote all day in his car
And his mama smiles

[Cowlesy]

No, in the US, people who live in poverty tend not to vote. Therefore it is a waste of time if you are trying to win an election by campaigning in impoverished areas.

Zanzibar, while I believe you are correct in the statistical sense about the implied cost/benefit of a sustained, money-backed outreach to low/no income urban communities, if the OP is active in the process, it behooves us to try and help out. It behooves us because a great deal people on the forum are doing absolutely zip, in fact, some even try to discourage who are doing what they can.

Since the OP is taking the step beyond phone-from-home and considering knocking on doors, what I think we should be asking is, how can we help the OP, and those who seeing his post, may be inclined to contact him to provide additional help. In one post, the OP mentions he's looking for activist tools (flyers, etc) that may be useful.

I do not assume to know what items may be most effective in outreach to these communities, but I'll at least give it a stab. I'd guess from a purely vote-getting sense, ending drug-war items would be good, from the approach of let's stop killing each other over what people decide to do with their own bodies. At the same time, I imagine the leading community activists whose approach is from a religious perspective, would appreciate Ron's personal religious views.

Maybe this is too hippie with the peace sign?

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/5147-ronpaulnomoredrugwar.jpg

Maybe for those with their arms crossed who've heard the baloney Ron is a racist (albeit I think this would be a tiny percentage, if the target population is indeed uninterested in politics), sometimes absurdist irony is an ice breaker?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10871657.jpg

3 words, quiet simple.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002445087/4828736659_rp12_freedom_peace_prosperity_ron_paul_ 2012_be_a_part_xlarge.jpeg

For the music community within these areas, you could take screenshots of Snoop Dogg posting Ron Paul's picture with the "SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY" on his Facebook page.

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/01/120130_snoop_ron_paul_screengrab_328.jpg


While we all have different perspectives on that being a good politicking material, I contend if the OP is willing to make the push, we should at least provide suggestions for encouragement as opposed discouraging even giving it a try. In respect to the lack of a lot of people do anything period, or at worse, just sitting around discouraging people, I think giving it a shot is the best path to take.

[ZanZibar]

Since the OP is taking the step beyond phone-from-home and considering knocking on doors, what I think we should be asking is, how can we help the OP, and those who seeing his post, may be inclined to contact him to provide additional help. In one post, the OP mentions he's looking for activist tools (flyers, etc) that may be useful. True, but we should encourage people to be as effective as possible, specifically working in Republican-rich areas.


I do not assume to know what items may be most effective in outreach to these communities, but I'll at least give it a stab. I'd guess from a purely vote-getting sense, ending drug-war items would be good, from the approach of let's stop killing each other over what people decide to do with their own bodies. At the same time, I imagine the leading community activists whose approach is from a religious perspective, would appreciate Ron's personal religious views. Again, if we are trying to win a REPUBLICAN primary then we have to go where the Republicans are and market to Republicans in Republican language.


Maybe this is too hippie with the peace sign?

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/5147-ronpaulnomoredrugwar.jpg

Maybe for those with their arms crossed who've heard the baloney Ron is a racist (albeit I think this would be a tiny percentage, if the target population is indeed uninterested in politics), sometimes absurdist irony is an ice breaker?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10871657.jpg

3 words, quiet simple.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002445087/4828736659_rp12_freedom_peace_prosperity_ron_paul_ 2012_be_a_part_xlarge.jpeg

For the music community within these areas, you could take screenshots of Snoop Dogg posting Ron Paul's picture with the "SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY" on his Facebook page.

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/01/120130_snoop_ron_paul_screengrab_328.jpg
All of the above images above hurt Ron Paul in a Republican primary.




While we all have different perspectives on that being a good politicking material, I contend if the OP is willing to make the push, we should at least provide suggestions for encouragement as opposed discouraging even giving it a try. In respect to the lack of a lot of people do anything period, or at worse, just sitting around discouraging people, I think giving it a shot is the best path to take.Again, we want people to be effective, not just spinning their wheels. If they want to put out the effort that's great, I just want that effort to bear fruit.

[lysol5555]

These people are brainwashed. They have lost human dignity and instead try to rely on other people. It is actually really sad. The results of dependency on government programs that claimed to help them.
We need to teach them the dignity of honest work. Any honest work is sacred as long as you work hard. You are respectable if you do the best with what God has given you.

[PaleoForPaul]

No, in the US, people who live in poverty tend not to vote. Therefore it is a waste of time if you are trying to win an election by campaigning in impoverished areas.

^^This.

Take a look at what is required in bad NJ neighborhoods to get turnout during a general election, nevermind a Republican primary (lol). In 2004 I remember seeing the moveon.org van in Irvington physically going from street to street and ringing doorbells to try to get people to vote.

Also, for the most part nobody bothers worrying about primaries in NJ because usually primaries are over by the time NJ rolls around. What happened in 2008 with the democrats and is happening now with the Republicans is atypical.

Still, the OP has a good point. Certain libertarian philosophies mesh well with black culture.

[PaleoForPaul]

Im originally form Newark Nj, I lived there 18 years in the "ghetto" which is a collectivist term, it is either the city or not. Ghetto is a horrible word.

rofl.


Stop resisting black people and turn your white guilt into passion for the RP campaign

This makes no sense.

[carclinic]

The clue train you missed was Mr. Perfidy's explanations that capitalism is alive and well and in its rawest, purest form in the ghetto.
If anything, they understand BETTER how to make a buck than your average business owner. They know that taxes and regulation only serve to get in the way of their ventures. The message we offer - "We want to stop throwing you in prison for running businesses" - would be received well.
Drugs exist out side the legal framework of running a business because they're illegal.
If you remove that legal framework, and make it so that running ANY business follows the same model that they're using for drugs, then you're going to see other businesses crop up in the ghetto, guaranteed.
Put simply, they're not "hardworking" because hardworking as you define it is "enjoying having the state's dick firmly lodged in their mouths".

Dealing drugs and "protection" are not honest livings. They are seen as ways of making easy money taking advantage of people's problems. It does not mean it should be illegal, but no dope dealer knows more about making "an honest buck" than a regular small business owner who deals with real government regulations that impede us (while the illicit drug trade is unregulated.)

Drug dealers are not hardworking nor enterprising.


First of all, don't pretend like drugs and sex are immoral in and of themselves. If that's the case then the fact that I fucked my wife and had a beer with her afterward last night mean I'm no better than the people you decry. And I'm Irish and she's German and Slavic.
You're all tough now white boy because you have relations with your wife?

Serial womanizing is immoral, and that is typical of the 70%+ illegitimacy rate of the ghetto. The lack of fatherhood is probably the greatest problem we face.


And those teachers are the sum of the problem. Hey look, this system is failing miserably - it can't possibly be the system to blame, so it has to be the teachers! All we need is to find someone who cares enough!
Bullshit. All we need to do is tear down those programming centers and leave them to themselves.
If someone in the ghetto can make a buck knowing where the pyramids are, he's going to learn it. The only reason for him to know it before that is either out of intellectual curiosity, or because some mean old bat expected a pavlovian response to "where are the pyramids" during year four of their obedience conditioning. Which conditioning I'm pretty sure they can see right through... that, I believe, is the problem.
No, if you have no intellectual curiosity beyond getting your balls off and getting your drink on, then you're a caveman.


I can completely understand why they do it. Education isn't even pretending to be education. It's a bunch of unrelated facts and figures that get dumped into your head. If you memorize them, you get a gold star. If you don't, you get a frowny face.
There's no effort to get them to think for themselves or otherwise relate to anything meaningful in their lives. How come nobody in the ghetto thinks to teach electronics by repairing someone's fucked up XBox laser (and saving that kid $300), or teach chemistry by learning how to reload 40sw cartridges? Because education isn't the point, is why.
1. Please try to use correct English, stop pretending you're not white.
2. Education is not supposed to be fun all the time. That's just unrealistic nor is it good pedagogy. It just goes along with our shallow shopping mall instant gratification culture.


What is "civilized"? Seems to me like you're defining it as "having successfully completed the state's bald-faced youth conditioning, refraining from basic pleasures in life, and working hard (although not necessarily smart)".
Civility is making an honest living, taking care of one's family, helping out one's community, and showing common decency towards people. It does not mean being perfect, but in the ghetto when someone jacks your car its not even a surprise. People just say "wrong place, wrong time." That's BS. People should not be stealing your car, it should not be an expected part of life. We need to have some expectations for ourselves as human beings.


The brilliant thing about what Mr. Perfidy is doing is that he's working within the context of what you claim is the source of their ills.
If we ignore what we consider to be immorality (it is not, necessarily), ignore what we consider to be crime (it probably isn't), ignore what we consider education (ditto), and focus on the fact that the state is actively fucking them and they know it, that can translate into votes.
I'm all about winning votes, but blacks don't hate the state. They are like evangelical Christians. They want an all powerful government to do everything they want, but are all pissed that the state granted such powers F***s them. So, they are no more anti-state then a gay marriage hating Santorum-lover.

We need people to wake up and see that the state is incapable of being fair or just. Segregation, slavery, anti-drug laws, bad education---these are all state institutions. The state can only be "good" to you by robbing someone else. If we should have a golden rule for foreign policy, we should have a golden rule for domestic policy. Don't rob from me to pay for you because you wouldn't want me doing that to you. Plain and simple.

However, blacks haven't intellectually reached that point, and the same is true for the majority of the gay-hating, SS & medicare loving society. Bone Thugs & Harmony's First of da Month can only become a hit back in the day due to the mass ignorance that exists. Just because blacks hate the police, it does not mean don't love a powerful government "getting back at the white man" when it reality it only robs the middle class of all races and not the plutocrats.


Yeah, I grew up thinking this.... and every single black person I've interacted with in my adult life has surprised me. Hm... I wonder how I learned as a kid to fear people who spurned the path I was on, that path the state anointed as correct?
You obviously grew up in an all white town. So did I. The difference was I didn't believe any of these things until I was an adult and spent 2 years in Manhattan and the Bronx. Even though my best friend, heck he's my brother, is hispanic that does not mean that I don't see much of what I'm talking about amongst a lot of other people.

My advice to you is move into a black neighborhood and see why a lot of black people want to MOVE OUT!

[carclinic]

and yo everything carclinic said is exactly why it is hard to break the ice in these demographics. Why do you imagine stupid shit about newsletters gains traction so easily? Because everyone who knows a libertarian knows one like that, who is vocal and ridiculous.
Yet you cannot name a single thing that I said which is untrue. Funny how that is.

I love all people. I don't like ghetto culture. Not that I like American culture either. I'm just critiquing what I see.

[carclinic]

These people are brainwashed. They have lost human dignity and instead try to rely on other people. It is actually really sad. The results of dependency on government programs that claimed to help them.
We need to teach them the dignity of honest work. Any honest work is sacred as long as you work hard. You are respectable if you do the best with what God has given you.
True. We need to reach out on an individual level to the kids and help the families. We need to be friends to people that need help.

[Mr. Perfidy]

carclinic, I think you are a troll, and suspect that you truly love rick santorum, because if you are a ron paul person, then I would make efforts to denounce you and separate myself from your particular brand of self-righteous, eurocentric vitriol. But nonetheless, I will humor you for another moment or two and argue some of the total crap you are dribbling...


Dealing drugs and "protection" are not honest livings. They are seen as ways of making easy money taking advantage of people's problems.

Why is it problematic that one should want to get high? There are cannabis receptors in your brain son- god or evolution installed those to one end- G.E.T. H.I.G.H. That is why they are there. So why would it be some kind of moral riddle to stimulate them? I argue that drug dealers are MORE ETHICAL than regular business people, as they risk their freedom and ignore conventions in order to supply demands that the law deems illegitimate, yet nevertheless persist as human desire. I know I count my dealers among the best people that I know, and they help me more than any other service provider.


It does not mean it should be illegal, but no dope dealer knows more about making "an honest buck" than a regular small business owner who deals with real government regulations that impede us (while the illicit drug trade is unregulated.)

?? Huh? I do not see how you could say that drug dealing is not an honest living, in the sense that it requires individual labor and risk without necessarily violating anyone else's property. On main street, if I want to sell say, bubble gum, I pay rent to a store owner knowing that if anything happens on the property, he is liable- I buy bubble gum from a vendor knowing that if his product is defective, the courts will hear my arguments and award me compensation. I sell bubble gum to customers knowing that I can call the police to protect me from being robbed.

If I sold dubs on main street, I cannot participate in any property ownership relationships, and therefore everything is riskier; my vendor suppliers might sell me poison or nothing, and so I must take care to develop commercial relationships based on personal reputations and endorsements and incentives to fairly honor contracts. If I am cheated, I must rely on my own personal force to make things right and bank on the fact that the other parties can rationally assess the damages I am capable of afflicting, and weighing this against the cost of compensation. My customers can just rob me with impunity, as I am afforded no police protection.

So- what is dishonest about that? How is selling Lottery Tickets inherently more legitimate?




Serial womanizing is immoral, and that is typical of the 70%+ illegitimacy rate of the ghetto. The lack of fatherhood is probably the greatest problem we face.

haha yo man you're gonna hafta have this conversation with your mama, because I bet that you are actually the bastard son of some hypocrite slick-talking bible-salesman. Gtf outta here with that bro- tight-asses have been making this argument since there was monogamy. Obviously not having male role models is not good for a developing child, but to go from that to, "serial womanizing is immoral" is quite a jump- I wager that many of the men you admire are serial womanizers.


'm all about winning votes, but blacks don't hate the state. They are like evangelical Christians. They want an all powerful government to do everything they want, but are all pissed that the state granted such powers F***s them. So, they are no more anti-state then a gay marriage hating Santorum-lover.

if I were to make a list of people that the folks in my neighborhood tend to hate on and avoid/hide from, it would read:

Child Services
Probation Officer
The Judge
The Public Defender
The Police
Teachers and School Faculty
Workers at the DMV

see a pattern?


We need people to wake up and see that the state is incapable of being fair or just. Segregation, slavery, anti-drug laws, bad education---these are all state institutions. The state can only be "good" to you by robbing someone else. If we should have a golden rule for foreign policy, we should have a golden rule for domestic policy. Don't rob from me to pay for you because you wouldn't want me doing that to you. Plain and simple.

exactly dingus...why should this argument not be made to the people that you allege clamor for other people's resources?


However, blacks haven't intellectually reached that point,

haha dont people get banned talking like this? What institution or entity goes around to all black people and assessing the points they can score with intellect?


1. Please try to use correct English, stop pretending you're not white.

hahah wow dude.

you ever hear of Huck Finn?


2. Education is not supposed to be fun all the time. That's just unrealistic nor is it good pedagogy. It just goes along with our shallow shopping mall instant gratification culture.

I dont think anyone has made the argument that tests in black school districts are bad because "school is not fun." The argument is that the tests are made by racist assholes for the purpose of passive-aggressively demonstrating white supremacy. The kids in the school know that and rightly conclude, "fuck state testing and fuck this." They also may observe something like, "Yo everyone I know is unemployed, college, HS diploma- aint no work no matter. Fuck school."


Civility is making an honest living,

a lot of GOP folk put soldiers and cops in the category of honest living makers. The same kinda people who typically dismiss the free market as it survives in unregulated poor neighborhoods. When I need amoxicilin, I buy it in Philly from a girl that also sells weed.


taking care of one's family, helping out one's community, and showing common decency towards people. It does not mean being perfect, but in the ghetto when someone jacks your car its not even a surprise. People just say "wrong place, wrong time." That's BS. People should not be stealing your car, it should not be an expected part of life. We need to have some expectations for ourselves as human beings.

dumb. No one says, "Shit my car is gone- oh well- it was parked in the ghetto. Guess ill find that bus schedule." You are assigning your own steteotypes as real human reactions, when in fact they do not happen that way. My house has been robbed, and nobody in the neighborhood told me, "well you shouldnt live here, duh." We formed patrols and shit, impromptu courts and evidence searches and interrogations.



No, if you have no intellectual curiosity beyond getting your balls off and getting your drink on, then you're a caveman.

My favorite kind of elitism is when people assume personal responsibility for all of the advances that they arbitrarily enjoy despite no contributions to these discoveries in any way at all.



thanks to the people trying to help though- I am still looking for compilations of RP quotes/videos of him talking about the racist rate of incarceration for drug crimes, his reversal of his stance on the death penalty bc of its racist applications, etc. I have seen some good stuff and thought maybe someone has already compiled it for such a target audience.

[WilliamC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw

Off topic, couldn't resist, sorry to anyone who actually drives a Yugo...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTKZgEW8pM

[carclinic]

Dude, I've been following Ron Paul since 06, which isn't forever but no, I am not a Santorum supporter. I just am not a fan of anti-social behavior that is growing in this country.

[carclinic]

Why is it problematic that one should want to get high? There are cannabis receptors in your brain son- god or evolution installed those to one end- G.E.T. H.I.G.H. That is why they are there. So why would it be some kind of moral riddle to stimulate them? I argue that drug dealers are MORE ETHICAL than regular business people, as they risk their freedom and ignore conventions in order to supply demands that the law deems illegitimate, yet nevertheless persist as human desire. I know I count my dealers among the best people that I know, and they help me more than any other service provider.

Selling heroin is not a moral act, as it ruins people's lives. Just like those people who waste your time trying to get you to switch long distance providers. Getting high kills braincells and is a selfish act. Higher drug use is often correlated with higher rates of depression and suicides. So I don't think it is a good thing, but you're probably so biased that you cannot at least admit that it is not a positive behavior.


?? Huh? I do not see how you could say that drug dealing is not an honest living, in the sense that it requires individual labor and risk without necessarily violating anyone else's property. On main street, if I want to sell say, bubble gum, I pay rent to a store owner knowing that if anything happens on the property, he is liable- I buy bubble gum from a vendor knowing that if his product is defective, the courts will hear my arguments and award me compensation. I sell bubble gum to customers knowing that I can call the police to protect me from being robbed.
Being that most violent crimes surropund the illicit drug trade, I maintain that it is not an honest living.


So- what is dishonest about that? How is selling Lottery Tickets inherently more legitimate?
It's not, it's just less deadly.


haha yo man you're gonna hafta have this conversation with your mama, because I bet that you are actually the bastard son of some hypocrite slick-talking bible-salesman. Gtf outta here with that bro- tight-asses have been making this argument since there was monogamy. Obviously not having male role models is not good for a developing child, but to go from that to, "serial womanizing is immoral" is quite a jump- I wager that many of the men you admire are serial womanizers.
Hey, I don't know whether my fathe ris my real dad or not, but I would have liked to have 2 parents growing up. Hence, I know first hand that douches that cheat on their spouse and don't commit have no business having children. Sadly, that is just a part of reality and we cannot do anythign about it. But, we should not be pretending it is a positive good.


if I were to make a list of people that the folks in my neighborhood tend to hate on and avoid/hide from, it would read:

Child Services
Probation Officer
The Judge
The Public Defender
The Police
Teachers and School Faculty
Workers at the DMV

see a pattern?
Try hiding from the EBT people then.


exactly dingus...why should this argument not be made to the people that you allege clamor for other people's resources?
Not exactly sure why you must resort to personal name calling, but yeah, go ahead make my argument to people. I just think that intellectually people cannot separate the fact that they like getting freebies, but the gov't that gives freebies can take things away form you.

This is because state coercion is a matter of morality, and if it is not understood in moral terms, then it's just a matter of selfishness (Wanting the gov't to be exactly the way it would suit yourself best and not society as a whole.)



-1 for quoting out of context. Obviously I was speaking of cultural values, which when taken as a whole, seem to be quite obvious if you know the political leanings of any black people. To be honest, most black people will vote for the black guy no matter how bad a candidate he is if the other candidate is white. That is not some genetic defecit in intelligence, but it is a major cultural intellectual deficit, bet your ass on that.

[quote]hahah wow dude.

you ever hear of Huck Finn?
You mean from 150 years ago? That white dude's family immigrated here after then.


I dont think anyone has made the argument that tests in black school districts are bad because "school is not fun."
No, that is the argument being made. Not everything you learn is immediately relevant to your life. You can't always doll it up.


The argument is that the tests are made by racist assholes for the purpose of passive-aggressively demonstrating white supremacy.
Now that's just retarded.


The kids in the school know that and rightly conclude, "fuck state testing and fuck this." They also may observe something like, "Yo everyone I know is unemployed, college, HS diploma- aint no work no matter. Fuck school."
No, the kids are lazy bastards. I've seen teachers try to give kids money to do stuff and they won't. Why bother? They get everything for free anyway.


a lot of GOP folk put soldiers and cops in the category of honest living makers. The same kinda people who typically dismiss the free market as it survives in unregulated poor neighborhoods. When I need amoxicilin, I buy it in Philly from a girl that also sells weed.
Being a mercenary is not an honest living.


dumb. No one says, "Shit my car is gone- oh well- it was parked in the ghetto. Guess ill find that bus schedule." You are assigning your own steteotypes as real human reactions, when in fact they do not happen that way. My house has been robbed, and nobody in the neighborhood told me, "well you shouldnt live here, duh." We formed patrols and shit, impromptu courts and evidence searches and interrogations.
Dude, happened to my sister-in-law. And the same thing when one of her friends were killed. Happens all the time. Such low friggin' expectations.


My favorite kind of elitism is when people assume personal responsibility for all of the advances that they arbitrarily enjoy despite no contributions to these discoveries in any way at all.
That does not make sense. Having an intellectual curiosity about the world beyond physical stimuli is what separates man from beast. But, many men are beastin', don't you know?

[Mr. Perfidy]

Selling heroin is not a moral act, as it ruins people's lives.

I have known a lot of drug dealers, and never seen heroin, except once randomly in a small bag on the ground in the parking lot. It probably belonged to this dude that drove an escalade one apartment over; he never bothered any of us and his woman played with her kids out front often. They probably got food stamps, but then all of the cops that hung out where I worked overnight also bragged about their wives' welfare and unemployment fraud also. Anyway why do you immediately equate "drug dealer" with HEROIN? I saw motorhead last march- only the diligent work of a caring drug-dealer was able to put that into proper context, bumpity bumpin all night.


Getting high kills braincells and is a selfish act.

haha this trip. "People who get high dont care about stuff and people like ME- I take my life SERIOUSLY! I respect things of value!" hahahaha

yo living kills brain cells dude. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.


Higher drug use is often correlated with higher rates of depression and suicides. So I don't think it is a good thing, but you're probably so biased that you cannot at least admit that it is not a positive behavior.

nope. I actually define human culture as "social drug use." And Im mad cultured son!


Being that most violent crimes surropund the illicit drug trade, I maintain that it is not an honest living.

hahaha

do you define crime as "behavior prohibited by legislative bureaucracies?"

I will add that like heroin, despite knowing many drug dealers and moving comfortably among various contraband markets, I have seen almost no violence in this time.


Hey, I don't know whether my fathe ris my real dad or not, but I would have liked to have 2 parents growing up. Hence, I know first hand that douches that cheat on their spouse

you left my mother!

why do people always assign some kind of untouchable aura of indisputable appeal and value of the woman in these imagined relationships? Maybe the bitches are just intolerable!


and don't commit have no business having children. Sadly, that is just a part of reality and we cannot do anythign about it. But, we should not be pretending it is a positive good.

goodthinkers discuss poor kids as though some kind of consequence product of concepts and not people. Their parents too. We are talking about living people.


No, the kids are lazy bastards. I've seen teachers try to give kids money to do stuff and they won't. Why bother? They get everything for free anyway.

are you telling me that the teachers' imagined superiority in this dynamic (haha bet they have a Masters degree!) is not evident to you? It is evident to the children, and thus, their reaction is an appropriate stroking of their dicks in that general direction.

[unknown]

But how can we be expected to compete with the likes of a Mitt Romney... :(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXGMi7a53jA

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Great post man, I totally agree. Liberty lovers would be shocked by how much headway they could make in the hood. I know from personal experience.

[parke]

I can promise you this.. I live in the south. I was a military brat. Had friends of all colors my entire life. The south is still so racially divided that it will take another 100 years to get past this shit. I dont hate many things, but I honestly hate how deeply divided people are in the south. The whites and blacks hate each other so much that it is the worst drag on our society. Seriously. While I applaud your thoughts, I live in the reality of what its like down here. It honestly sucks. Being a white guy, I never know if a black person is going to treat me like crap because of my skin color.. and what is even worse.. are the white people that expect me to be racist. After living in so many places I figured it wouldnt be so bad now. Its not.. because people arent hanging from trees anymore. Thats about where it stops. The south is still deeply segregated. This is the part that makes me the most upset. Paul offers peace, individualism.. a faith in yourself and those around you wrapped in the concept that people are good human beings. You cant fake that shit. Either you believe or you dont. The example he has set shows me that his message is worth everything we do. I live in a place that is 49% white and 49% black. My black friends that have visited me told me they have never seen so many black people in one place before. Its a pretty crappy feeling to be a good person and be judged by others. Ive been called cracker, honkey and whitey.. had to quit seeing a beautiful black woman because I worried about our safety. Im not kidding.

So while you write about how to reach 'urban' or whatever PC language, Id like to tell you from the front lines its not as easy as that. I do applaud your efforts. In order to be effective, I would focus on black churches and black leaders outside of politics. The democrat party has done nothing to champion their success. Only to create a sense of entitlement and division of family.

Take what I say like a grain of salt. I fucking hate racism. Its ignorance in the brightest suit. I have plenty of mixed race kids in my family. I love them all more than anything in the world. Overcoming the democrat party with blacks is nearly impossible. True story.

[basicopetsi]

It's not always safe for a white person (especially a woman) to walk through a ghetto at all, and especially when they are there to promote a Republican candidate that has been aligned as a racist in the mainstream media.

[carclinic]

I have known a lot of drug dealers, and never seen heroin, except once randomly in a small bag on the ground in the parking lot. It probably belonged to this dude that drove an escalade one apartment over; he never bothered any of us and his woman played with her kids out front often.

Well, that's good. I'm never in the market in drugs, so I know no dealers. My best friend lived next to a drug dealer before he moved to NYC and the guy was not a bad guy. But his girlfriend died from some sort of drug and her dead body was next door, and that was all hush hush. There was a lot of prostitution at the time too, which does bring a good element around the apartments with young girls. So, I cannot say for him that the neighborhood dealer was a nice thing to have around.

My sister is big into drugs, and though a highly functioning member of society, all the drug dealers she deals with are losers that smoke their own stuff and don't like working that much. Not the sort of dudes that will make good fathers and stuff.


do you define crime as "behavior prohibited by legislative bureaucracies?"
No, acts of theft and violence against other people. Big in the ghetto don't you know.


why do people always assign some kind of untouchable aura of indisputable appeal and value of the woman in these imagined relationships? Maybe the bitches are just intolerable!
Because they are left with the kids and a high proportion of those kids grow up messed up.


goodthinkers discuss poor kids as though some kind of consequence product of concepts and not people. Their parents too. We are talking about living people.
This comment is just hanging out there, I'm not sure what you're even getting at.


Are you telling me that the teachers' imagined superiority in this dynamic (haha bet they have a Masters degree!) is not evident to you? It is evident to the children, and thus, their reaction is an appropriate stroking of their dicks in that general direction.
Adults by virtue should command the respect of those younger than them.

[Mr. Perfidy]

Clinik, you are the exact type of man I was talking about when I wrote on matchbooks at the mobil where I worked, "White people call 'fear of coerced inter-racial sodomy' respect for the law." I hear it in literally every argument you are making.

for example- people like weed. In a free market, demands are supplied. You seem unwilling to accept that maybe this demand is a perfectly legitimate one.

Also, "theft and violence against other people" is a crime for which the State actually bears the most guilt, and yet you seem to have invested a lot of emotion in condemning the peoples at the very bottom of the state's power structure, and their feeble property crimes.

and again- if society is going to make the argument that women have a right to abort their children, then society implicitly assigns to women a greater responsibility for the child, and thus, it is on her whether or not the fertilizer males are worthy fathers or not. You sound like one of those guys who insists that wanting to bust a nut is the same as wanting to shoulder a lifetime of diverted purposes in favor of heroic householder mustache status.


by this:
goodthinkers discuss poor kids as though some kind of consequence product of concepts and not people. Their parents too. We are talking about living people.

I mean that you do not sound like you are trying to address issues that affect living persons, but rather, are trying to justify a given moral system, or rationalize a given resource allocation strategy. Morality and education and the ideally ethical western industrial procreation strategies are great to talk about in a utopian, what-if kinda context, but we are not talking about hypothetical social arrangements- instead we actually have right now living across the nation millions of children and dysfunctional adults who are relatively incapable of contributing anything of value to any economic pursuits (like their privileged and obsolete middle-class counter-parts)- that is to say, you are using facts and figures and theoretical frameworks to talk about what is instead many stories of different people whose lives must adapt to a given system.

I tell poor folk that Ron Paul will not mess with their assistance until the market has rebounded enough to absorb and employ them- until then, the Federal Reserve bankers that he will hang for treason will fund their programs.

Also

Adults by virtue should command the respect of those younger than them.

lol

why? because they are older? This may have been true when being old meant that you had roughed it through some tough winters and survived tribal conflicts with war-painted neighbors, but today living entails no risk, no cost, and no expenditure of any energy whatsoever. So, adults can suck on my nuts if they think that balding or paunches denote worthiness of any kind of attention.

[Mr. Perfidy]

and yo parke, that sounds very terrible where you live, and for the record I suspect that your are incorrect.

There aren't mixed kids in these neighborhoods? I thank god that the sex organs have more influence over moral positions than the spirit, since one can learn rather easily how to divide people into groups safe to hate on, but convincing the weiner- way different story.

It is very different here in NJ. I call the younger people "Aquarian children," because they seem to have no bias whatsoever until they start competing for scarce resources. Then all of a sudden mexicans are a problem, blacks are lazy and shifty, etc.

[carclinic]

Clinik, you are the exact type of man I was talking about when I wrote on matchbooks at the mobil where I worked, "White people call 'fear of coerced inter-racial sodomy' respect for the law." I hear it in literally every argument you are making.
I assume that I don't like violent crimes, which makes living in a black neighborhood hell, that I'm a stupid white person. Hey, if you like your own people worrying about going out at night and your kids not going to school on Halloween and other days because of overt spikes in crime, then be my guest. But, that sort of loser mentality is what holds people down in the ghetto.



for example- people like weed. In a free market, demands are supplied. You seem unwilling to accept that maybe this demand is a perfectly legitimate one.

There's demand for scat porn, but I am still justified in believing it's a degenerate activity.


Also, "theft and violence against other people" is a crime for which the State actually bears the most guilt, and yet you seem to have invested a lot of emotion in condemning the peoples at the very bottom of the state's power structure, and their feeble property crimes.

I tell my customers every day about the evils of the government. The problem is that the government robs and murders by consent, so its harder to stop. We have a mass illness among the electorate that loves big government, while the majority of non-whites are obviously not criminal like te government is. So, I pray for a revival in the inner cities. Historically, blacks in particular took care of their own. The problems that we see now are a modern thing and it does not have to be that way forever.


and again- if society is going to make the argument that women have a right to abort their children, then society implicitly assigns to women a greater responsibility for the child, and thus, it is on her whether or not the fertilizer males are worthy fathers or not. You sound like one of those guys who insists that wanting to bust a nut is the same as wanting to shoulder a lifetime of diverted purposes in favor of heroic householder mustache status.
Yes, if you don't want to get a woman pregnant then do not do somthing which by nature is for procreation.


goodthinkers discuss poor kids as though some kind of consequence product of concepts and not people. Their parents too. We are talking about living people. I mean that you do not sound like you are trying to address issues that affect living persons, but rather, are trying to justify a given moral system, or rationalize a given resource allocation strategy. Morality and education and the ideally ethical western industrial procreation strategies are great to talk about in a utopian, what-if kinda context, but we are not talking about hypothetical social arrangements- instead we actually have right now living across the nation millions of children and dysfunctional adults who are relatively incapable of contributing anything of value to any economic pursuits (like their privileged and obsolete middle-class counter-parts)- that is to say, you are using facts and figures and theoretical frameworks to talk about what is instead many stories of different people whose lives must adapt to a given system.
Well said and understood. Can't say that I agree, because my thoughts on this matter really come from my real life in the ghetto.


why? because they are older? This may have been true when being old meant that you had roughed it through some tough winters and survived tribal conflicts with war-painted neighbors, but today living entails no risk, no cost, and no expenditure of any energy whatsoever. So, adults can suck on my nuts if they think that balding or paunches denote worthiness of any kind of attention.
I consider it civility.

[Mr. Perfidy]

degenerate activity. hahahaha

http://danajohnhill.com/dana/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/entartete_musik_poster.jpg

[Watch]

and yo parke, that sounds very terrible where you live, and for the record I suspect that your are incorrect.

There aren't mixed kids in these neighborhoods? I thank god that the sex organs have more influence over moral positions than the spirit, since one can learn rather easily how to divide people into groups safe to hate on, but convincing the weiner- way different story.

It is very different here in NJ. I call the younger people "Aquarian children," because they seem to have no bias whatsoever until they start competing for scarce resources. Then all of a sudden mexicans are a problem, blacks are lazy and shifty, etc.

+Rep This whole thread is +Rep Perfidy, you are great, great sir.

With respect to everyone in this thread, living in one, or two, or 10 'ghettos', does not let you extrapolate that to all 'ghettos'. At best you are making an 'educated assumption', but it is not as if you're going to be able to go to lengths of intellectual honesty, such as to falsify it by testing(no invariables), inducting knowledge is always problematic by nature(all swans are white et al.) and SERIOUSLY f*ck statistics.

Perfidy, I'm in Mid-central Los Angeles, I like your framework, I think I can apply it aptly here.

[Mr. Perfidy]

I think a lot of people here do not get it because they do not smoke weed. True story- my wife and I comment all of the time on how people's relationship to the Law is just not normal or sane if they do not smoke weed. Because they go about their daily business without fear of assault and kidnapping (spare me this NDAA bullshit- none of us have ever known a guy who got disappeared) they are able to relate to the concept of Law as an extension of their own desire to be safe. In fact it is the opposite, but this is not something that their reptile brains get any training in whatsoever if they are not riding dirty.

also the social factors of marijuana culture- if you smoke, now everyone who gets high is your We. It totally destroys the 2 Party model, red/blue division and makes it about something REAL, as in, bio-chemical, not just a psychological fine-tuning in bodies of near identical states. Up round camden, the r3volution is in our blood son!

edit: sidenote- in 2007, you should have heard the room erupt in cheers when our friendly itinerant psychedelic merchant said he would pressure his friends to print sheets of acid with ron paul's face on them. The depth of joy in support for this idea was only comparable to the feelings I've gotten from the first riff of a motorhead live performance, earth-shaking kinda shit. Ron Paul will lose as long as his supporters do not understand this.

[craezie]

People in American ghettos don't vote in any signifigant quantity. That's just human nature. Trying to sign people up to vote in order to win an election is a losing strategy. You have to get people who are already voting to vote for your candidate. That's how elections are won.
I agree with this IF the election is about winner-take-all. These are people who must be won over eventually, and they are ripe for the message. However, they will not be won over in sufficient numbers to make a difference this time around.

EXCEPT

In places like where I live (California). Here, there are delegates awarded to each district, and the ghetto and Beverly Hills have the same say. I really hope that the groups can get it together in places like 34,35,37 &39 (all south central LA/ north Long Beach districts that are primarily industrial and "ghetto" housing) and the districts around Oakland. SOMEONE votes, even if they are few --even fewer for Republicans. The other mainstream Republicans will not be there, and this is such a huge opportunity to get delegates.

There are also mainly ethnic minority Democrat districts like CA 47, which is mostly Mexican, Vietnamese and middle Eastern that would be ripe too. The key is finding people who live in the communities and snowballing out from there.