[Highly Intriguing] Vatican Requests 1500 year old bible from Turkey

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/23/vatican-requests-1500-year-old-bible-from-turkey_n_1296672.html

[Aratus]

if genuine, this is up there with the turin shroud. if fake...

[Aratus]

1500 years ago = a king arthur of the britons date = a justinian + theodora date?

[Intoxiklown]

If genuine, and it says anything outside of the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church, I'll bet you anything something "accidentily" happens to it.

[Tim Calhoun]

If genuine, and it says anything outside of the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church, I'll bet you anything something "accidentily" happens to it.

And what would a Calvinist do if it says men have free will?

[Intoxiklown]

And what would a Calvinist do if it says men have free will?


Freak!

They would absolutely freak, as they believe you are called to salvation at a preordained time completely void of any influence of free will. However, if it is indeed one of the apochraphyl (sp?) gospels, it'll be the Roman Catholic chursh most upset about it. LOL....more so if it in any way mentions Mohammud

[otherone]

if genuine, this is up there with the turin shroud. if fake...

None of what you wrote makes sense.

[oyarde]

Freak!

They would absolutely freak, as they believe you are called to salvation at a preordained time completely void of any influence of free will. However, if it is indeed one of the apochraphyl (sp?) gospels, it'll be the Roman Catholic chursh most upset about it. LOL....more so if it in any way mentions Mohammud I got two bucks against it mentioning the M :)

[oyarde]

One of you guys should just offer 2.5 million Turkish Lira for this thing , I sure would like to look at it :)

[oyarde]

What I would really like to know , is where the smugglers got this ....

[Aratus]

None of what you wrote makes sense.

that particular bible is either fake or genuine.

the shroud of turin has had a controvery

swirl around its dates after testing

was done. i'm surprised that you have no

awareness about that ongoing controversy.

[jmdrake]

And what would a Calvinist do if it says men have free will?

Say that man's freewill is preordained. ;)

[oyarde]

If it was real , and stolen , would not someone have filed claim for it with the Turks ???

[oyarde]

I am not sure the lettering sounds authentic for the time period , but I would love to see it . I am trying to think if I recall of anything from the time period with gold lettering and I am coming up blank.

[Esoteric]

Very tempted to weigh in on this thread.. but that would likely result in a swift banhammer. #lesson learned #forum bias

[jmdrake]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/23/vatican-requests-1500-year-old-bible-from-turkey_n_1296672.html

From the article:

Today's Zaman reports that the Bible is under high security and that a Turkish daily newspaper, the Star, claims the book could be a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas -- a controversial text which some claim is an addition to the original gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John -- that was suppressed.

In it, Jesus is said to have predicted the coming of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hmmmm....1500 years ago would be 510 A.D. Mohammed was born in 570 A.D. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) This could be very interesting.

According to some sources Mohammed's first wife Khadija was a Catholic nun and her uncle, Warak ibn Nawfal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraka_ibn_Nawfal), was a Catholic priest who was one of the first people to recognize Mohammed as a prophet. Note that the illiterate Mohammed didn't write the Koran. It was written by his followers. So Warak, a Catholic priest, may have helped write the Koran. And now the Vatican is seeking an early Christian Bible that might "confirm" Mohammed as a prophet of prophecy? (The manuscript is possibly written during Warak's lifetime). Hmmmmm.......

http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/plo.ira.jpg

[oyarde]

This thread will get me banned. #lesson learned Why ?

[jmdrake]

Very tempted to weigh in on this thread.. but that would likely result in a swift banhammer. #lesson learned #forum bias

Just don't say nothing about "wemenez" and you should be okay.

[oyarde]

From the article:

Today's Zaman reports that the Bible is under high security and that a Turkish daily newspaper, the Star, claims the book could be a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas -- a controversial text which some claim is an addition to the original gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John -- that was suppressed.

In it, Jesus is said to have predicted the coming of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hmmmm....1500 years ago would be 510 A.D. Mohammed was born in 570 A.D. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) This could be very interesting.

According to some sources Mohammed's first wife Khadija was a Catholic nun and her uncle, Warak ibn Nawfal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraka_ibn_Nawfal), was a Catholic priest who was one of the first people to recognize Mohammed as a prophet. Note that the illiterate Mohammed didn't write the Koran. It was written by his followers. So Warak, a Catholic priest, may have helped write the Koran. And now the Vatican is seeking an early Christian Bible that might "confirm" Mohammed as a prophet of prophecy? (The manuscript is possibly written during Warak's lifetime). Hmmmmm.......

http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/plo.ira.jpg But in the villages Mohammed lived at , everyone was Pagan , there was , a nearby Oasis that was inhabited by Jews.

[jmdrake]

But in the villages Mohammed lived at , everyone was Pagan , there was , a nearby Oasis that was inhabited by Jews.

Maybe it was nearly everyone. There's very strong evidence that Warak was Catholic.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBwaraqa.html
Narrated 'Aisha(R): Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605:

"..The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospel in Arabic Waraqa asked (the Prophet), "What do you see?" When he told him, Waraqa said, "That is the same angel whom Allah sent to the Prophet) Moses. Should I live till you receive the Divine Message, I will support you strongly."

[AFPVet]

I hope someone smartphone scans and uploads it before they give it to them!

[otherone]

that particular bible is either fake or genuine.

the shroud of turin has had a controvery

swirl around its dates after testing

was done. i'm surprised that you have no

awareness about that ongoing controversy.

Haiku?
The controversy only exists for some within the christian community. The rest of the world sees no controversy.

[CJLauderdale4]

And what would a Calvinist do if it says men have free will?

Calvinists believe in election...that doesn't mean people don't have free will. Kinda hard to read Paul's letters especially to the Ephesians and not see election, and the same goes with his letter to the Romans 7:15-25. Paul who proclaims election also claims a free will that is driven by sin or Christ. He senses that his mind is being driven and that the Word of God delights him because it drives him to do good.

[Lishy]

I hope someone smartphone scans and uploads it before they give it to them!
This. I don't like the Vatican or stupid Pope and Catholic Church one bit!

They're all frauds who don't believe their own religion, but instead try to control us!

Religion is for ALL to enjoy, not one man, or a group of men! The 1500 year old bible must be scanned, put online, and preserved in a museum! NOT in a church controlled by a bunch of selfish, bureaucratic fakes!

[PatriotOne]

Vatican Requests 1500 year old bible from Turkey

If it was authentic and in my possesion, the Vatican would have about the same odds of me letting them get their hands on that bible as me letting the Pope babysit my 5 yr old grandson.

[Aratus]

Haiku?
The controversy only exists for some within the christian community. The rest of the world sees no controversy.

i had assumed sometime between the time of constantine the great and
constantine the tenth that the shroud had been soaked in a perservative
that had an oil base and that it gave rise to the bacteria that sent the
dates easily an aeon forward. the type of cloth was loosely contemporary
to the time of christ. if this bible book is a quite faithful copy of one that was
written as constantine the great codified things towards the end of his reign
and the parchment is clearly before the time of clovis, let alone almost easily
contemporary to saint augustine, if the ink and parchment are contemporary
to each other, we might actually be looking at one of the byzantine banned
books of our bible. if a forgery, this book was intended to look real as it
winged it's way to an ecclectic and wealthy patron whose private bragging
often surpasses any public utterances. the vatican being curious is apt logic.

[AFPVet]

This. I don't like the Vatican or stupid Pope and Catholic Church one bit!

They're all frauds who don't believe their own religion, but instead try to control us!

Religion is for ALL to enjoy, not one man, or a group of men! The 1500 year old bible must be scanned, put online, and preserved in a museum! NOT in a church controlled by a bunch of selfish, bureaucratic fakes!

Exactly!

[oyarde]

Vatican Requests 1500 year old bible from Turkey

If it was authentic and in my possesion, the Vatican would have about the same odds of me letting them get their hands on that bible as me letting the Pope babysit my 5 yr old grandson. Not me, I would give my grandson my tomahawk and tell him try not to hurt the old guy too much while grandpa does some reading :}

[oyarde]

Maybe it was nearly everyone. There's very strong evidence that Warak was Catholic.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBwaraqa.html
Narrated 'Aisha(R): Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605:

"..The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospel in Arabic Waraqa asked (the Prophet), "What do you see?" When he told him, Waraqa said, "That is the same angel whom Allah sent to the Prophet) Moses. Should I live till you receive the Divine Message, I will support you strongly." Yeah , I know , but how could there be a couple of Christian converts wondering around when there were no Christians nearby and everyone was required to pay homage to the main God Hubal ??

[oyarde]

Of course my favorite parts are yet to come , you know , when the Jews were ignorant enough to surrender at the Oasis and then were taxed fifty percent , of course they did that , but were eventually thrown out when the next guy takes over . I ask you JMDrake , does a fifty percent tax sound like the wise and prudent governance of a Prophet and man of God ?? I also ask , ( about the next dude who takes over ) , can you imagine today , a dictator getting rid of a peaceful populance he is getting a fifty percent tax from ?? And then , my final question is this , the verses about non believers being denied access , I believe those to be directed only at the un repentant Pagans , what say you , my good man ??

[oyarde]

Fact is , those guys fight instead of surrender , and maybe there is no tax on non Muslims today in Muslim dominated countries , only the welfare tax on the believers instead.

[oyarde]

One last question , all your life , you have been exposed to nothing but idolitry of hundreds of idols , wickedness of animal and human sacrafice to the stone god brought from afar from the baby burning lands and you are contacted by something powerful , how do you know if it is good or bad ??

[oyarde]

OK crap , one more , what kind of person living in the Arab Pen. even thinks of killing something as valuable as a child or camel to this stone moon god hubal ? Were these ignorant and violent people all traumatized by this?? I think probably , yeah , quite sure M was , anyway , got to give it to M , he sure knew how to build on it , offer something that looks better , if you leave , you must be killed , does that sound God like ??With no free will , Sounds man like to me , God can be patient and collect in the end ? And what about that fifty percent tax ?? Sounds lazy man like to me .....

[oyarde]

I desire to offend no person , and care not and respect what others believe . I remain unconvinced about all of this , but , that matters not. I am only curious if others have information I have not read.

[oyarde]

To try my theory out , when my Gal's alarm goes off , I will kiss her , smack her on the butt and impose a fifty percent tax for , say , April . We are different Religions , so she will understand , of course I will have to duck quickly when I do this , I am Lutheren , she is Kentuckian Mountain Girl ;)