PDA

View Full Version : Open Letter to Ron Paul




Chief L
02-25-2012, 05:22 PM
http://voices.yahoo.com/open-letter-ron-paul-10995332.html?cat=9

I expect some will be put off by portions of this, but it needs to be said.

Feeding the Abscess
02-25-2012, 05:25 PM
This is war! People are going to get killed!

That didn't do it for you? How about the exchange last summer when he got riled up with Santorum over Santorum's rampant fear-mongering? Ron's shown fire plenty of times during this campaign.

Philosophy_of_Politics
02-25-2012, 05:27 PM
I must agree that Ron Paul isn't capturing the essence of "trying to win it." However, at the same, what he's trying to do is vastly more important. If he doesn't get into the presidency, and if this country goes down the tubes completely, we must ensure that our philosophy/idea is the one which rises to the top again.

Chief L
02-25-2012, 05:48 PM
This is war! People are going to get killed!

That didn't do it for you? How about the exchange last summer when he got riled up with Santorum over Santorum's rampant fear-mongering? Ron's shown fire plenty of times during this campaign.

Nope. Not enough. Not even close. It would be a nice start if during his next interview with a major media outlet he would come out and say that he is not in league with Romney against Santorum and that he plans to let Romney give the speech at the convention in August when he (Paul) is nominated. Having your campaign manager put out a statement doesn't cut it.

and while I would agree that the philosophy/ideology is what is important, why should we have to wait for anything to rise to the top again? Why not put it on top now and prevent the inevitable collapse?

Feeding the Abscess
02-25-2012, 05:51 PM
Nope. Not enough. Not even close. It would be a nice start if during his next interview with a major media outlet he would come out and say that he is not in league with Romney against Santorum and that he plans to let Romney give the speech at the convention in August when he (Paul) is nominated. Having your campaign manager put out a statement doesn't cut it.

and while I would agree that the philosophy/ideology is what is important, why should we have to wait for anything to rise to the top again? Why not put it on top now and prevent the inevitable collapse?

He's said he disagrees with Romney on virtually all of the issues, and said his beef with Santorum is that he doesn't like him personally or in terms of the issues, and that Romney is simply more cordial than the other two candidates. What do you want him to do, shoot the other candidates on stage and declare on live TV that he's nuking Congress and the White House for treasonous behavior?

Chief L
02-25-2012, 05:53 PM
He's said he disagrees with Romney on virtually all of the issues, and said his beef with Santorum is that he doesn't like him personally or in terms of the issues, and that Romney is simply more cordial than the other two candidates. What do you want him to do, shoot the other candidates on stage and declare on live TV that he's nuking Congress and the White House for treasonous behavior?

That would be preferable to Obama or one of the other three ending up in the Oval Office.

kathy88
02-25-2012, 05:55 PM
I agreed with every word of that. With that said I do believe Paul's getting more confident and excited. I expect a tipping point to occur within two weeks.

splanky
02-25-2012, 06:02 PM
http://voices.yahoo.com/open-letter-ron-paul-10995332.html?cat=9

I expect some will be put off by portions of this, but it needs to be said.

As a RP supporter for a quarter of a century I admit that I agree with you, except --- what you're trying to change is the man's personality. You can't do that. So your letter would've been better addressed to those on his staff that most influence him, i.e. those who might be able to "remind" him of certain things from time to time. That may seem pithy but you can't expect to be able to make a George Washington pose for a Madison Avenue billboard, if you get my drift.

JJ2
02-25-2012, 06:07 PM
Nope. Not enough. Not even close. It would be a nice start if during his next interview with a major media outlet he would come out and say that he is not in league with Romney against Santorum and that he plans to let Romney give the speech at the convention in August when he (Paul) is nominated. Having your campaign manager put out a statement doesn't cut it.

and while I would agree that the philosophy/ideology is what is important, why should we have to wait for anything to rise to the top again? Why not put it on top now and prevent the inevitable collapse?

Agreed.

"I am not in cahoots with Romney, but he's been friendly to me, so I do plan on letting him give a nice speech at the Convention when I am nominated in August."

;)

jolynna
02-25-2012, 06:12 PM
Nope. Not enough. Not even close. It would be a nice start if during his next interview with a major media outlet he would come out and say that he is not in league with Romney against Santorum and that he plans to let Romney give the speech at the convention in August when he (Paul) is nominated. Having your campaign manager put out a statement doesn't cut it.


I agree with you.

Because "This is war, people are going to get killed!", is WHY, Ron Paul cannot let it hang out there, that he WOULD endorse the man responsible for putting together this --> http://www.mittromney.com/sites/default/files/shared/AnAmericanCentury-WhitePaper_0.pdf .

It can't be both ways.

If you believe unconstitutional war and killing is not only illegal but also immoral, you can't stand by the side of someone who is unabashedly enthusiastic for it. Period. You should be offended to the bone, mad and showing it, SHOULD anyone suggest the possibility.

In my opinion.

TheGrinch
02-25-2012, 06:14 PM
Nope. Not enough. Not even close. It would be a nice start if during his next interview with a major media outlet he would come out and say that he is not in league with Romney against Santorum and that he plans to let Romney give the speech at the convention in August when he (Paul) is nominated. Having your campaign manager put out a statement doesn't cut it.

and while I would agree that the philosophy/ideology is what is important, why should we have to wait for anything to rise to the top again? Why not put it on top now and prevent the inevitable collapse?

That is exactly what Ron did say in his very first interview after the debate when they started pushing this, and Doug Wead said the exact same in another interview. See the video here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?363119-video-Ron-Paul-Interview-On-Kudlow-Talks-Fake-Santorum-amp-The-Medias-MItt-Ron-Conspiracy)

Dr. Paul even went so far as to quote Pawlenty from that day that there is no one less liekyl to make a backdoor deal than him. They still need to continue to do more to quash that rumor with every interview, but when speaking in public, they've been asked and vehemently denied it.

BTW, I haven't yet read the letter and will give input when I do, but wanted to clear up the misconception that they're just letting this media narrative conspiracy theory happen, or are are somehow a part of it...

socal
02-25-2012, 06:16 PM
As a RP supporter for a quarter of a century I admit that I agree with you, except --- what you're trying to change is the man's personality. You can't do that. So your letter would've been better addressed to those on his staff that most influence him, i.e. those who might be able to "remind" him of certain things from time to time. That may seem pithy but you can't expect to be able to make a George Washington pose for a Madison Avenue billboard, if you get my drift.
Not only that, but I don't see why it's RP's fault that lots of people will only get behind a more forceful personality, as if logic and reasoning isn't enough.

Also, I object to the statement in the article that RP somehow lacks courage, as in,


If not, please start acting like someone who understands that the greatest country in the history of mankind is going down the toilet and show the fire and courage that voters are begging for in a candidate.

Overall though, lots of good parts to the open letter.

Bruno
02-25-2012, 06:20 PM
Not sure why it needs to be an open public letter when it could have just been sent it to the campaign members with the same feedback.

Chief L
02-25-2012, 06:27 PM
Logic and reasoning aren't enough for the general populace. It is enough for Paul's supporters, but the capacity for comprehension of logic is a base reason we all found our way to Dr. Paul, is it not? The general populace understands light beer and American Idol. If he wants to win, he has to find a way to force himself into the minds of people who are used to being spoon fed their information. Too much is at stake to let this country's fate go by the wayside because of a passive personality.

Feeding the Abscess
02-25-2012, 07:29 PM
Logic and reasoning aren't enough for the general populace. It is enough for Paul's supporters, but the capacity for comprehension of logic is a base reason we all found our way to Dr. Paul, is it not? The general populace understands light beer and American Idol. If he wants to win, he has to find a way to force himself into the minds of people who are used to being spoon fed their information. Too much is at stake to let this country's fate go by the wayside because of a passive personality.

So if the American populace is too dumb to come to Ron Paul, how can the American populace then support and continue the ideas of freedom after being tricked into it? Won't work, the best case scenario would be a pyrrhic victory.

Feeding the Abscess
02-25-2012, 07:30 PM
I agree with you.

Because "This is war, people are going to get killed!", is WHY, Ron Paul cannot let it hang out there, that he WOULD endorse the man responsible for putting together this --> http://www.mittromney.com/sites/default/files/shared/AnAmericanCentury-WhitePaper_0.pdf .

It can't be both ways.

If you believe unconstitutional war and killing is not only illegal but also immoral, you can't stand by the side of someone who is unabashedly enthusiastic for it. Period. You should be offended to the bone, mad and showing it, SHOULD anyone suggest the possibility.

In my opinion.

He didn't endorse McCain, he didn't vote for either Bush, left the party because of Reagan...

What makes you think he'd endorse Romney? He has said many times that unless Romney changed his ideas, he wouldn't get Ron's endorsement.

Highstreet
02-25-2012, 07:38 PM
Agreed.

"I am not in cahoots with Romney, but he's been friendly to me, so I do plan on letting him give a nice speech at the Convention when I am nominated in August."

;)

:D

Liberty74
02-25-2012, 08:20 PM
I agreed with every word of that. With that said I do believe Paul's getting more confident and excited. I expect a tipping point to occur within two weeks.

Your expectations are based on what exactly? Did Rush die? Did Levin die? Did Hannity die? Did Beck die? Did O'Reilly die?

The sell out establishment and these fake conservatives are standing in the way. They are in control as evident of their all out nuclear attack and smear on Ron Paul that started back in December once he rose in Iowa. These talk radio hosts are "FAKE." They are vile, nasty and hateful.

I wish we could "expect a tipping point." But it's just not going to happen as long as those dick douches above are in control of the Republican Party.

This is why I have always advocated Ron running Indy where 30-35% of American are registered.

Ron Paul can't be bought out and that infuriates the Republican whores in power.

LibertasPraesidium
02-25-2012, 08:29 PM
my only response would be that I agree.

I want to see the 1988 Ron Paul that bawked at people who were trying to convince him they needed the government to help them. But I do not know if I would support him if he was like that. It would be a different person. I am the fire, and I burn brightly enough and scream(if needed) loud enough for all to hear. This is part of the message that took me 4 years to get. As individuals he cannot tell you what he would have us do, it is ultimately our choice, but in that choice lays a problem, most cannot sacrifice their lives to the movement to get the message out, and some can barely talk to friends about Ron Paul, but then there are those of us who cannot go a few moments without talking about politics or RP himself.

The fires of liberty grow, slowly at first, but there will be a brushfire, and we will be felt. How and when is up to those already in charge.

(all i am saying is that without individual fires, no one will be moved, even if RP was as much of a firebrand as some want him to be, it may not matter, people are sheep, and do not listen while they are at the feeding trough... we have to be individually lit ablaze in support of this man, this movement.

CaptainAmerica
02-25-2012, 08:34 PM
http://voices.yahoo.com/open-letter-ron-paul-10995332.html?cat=9

I expect some will be put off by portions of this, but it needs to be said. If Ron has enough delegates he can negotiate a change of platform policies from what I understand. Ron does want to win but if he can't win he does what he can to change policies...of course we both know that changing policies on paper doesnt work without people who believe in the same policies.

floridasun1983
02-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Your expectations are based on what exactly? I won't speak for her, but for me, its the hope that at some point all these enthusiastic crowds at rallys need to start reflecting at the ballot boxes.

PierzStyx
02-25-2012, 08:40 PM
Why is it that so many people can only satisfied that the Doctor is being appropriately passionate if he is being if he acts like an asshole? The want him to be like Romney, or Frothy, or Gingrich, and be mean, and angry, and crass. But he ISN'T that way. He ISN'T a demagogue. The man is the last true statesman. He is respectful to those who are respectful to him. Heck, he is even respectful to those who aren't respectful to him. And he gets attacked for it from the worst sources, not his opponents, but his friends (us). Just because he refuses to be a douche to someone who has been cordial to him doesn't mean he is secretly plotting a backdoor deal. That is MSM bullcrap. And if its something you are honestly worried about then you should be ashamed of yourself for having so little faith in a man that has proven more than anyone else that he deserves it.

If you can't see his true passion, you're blind. He may not interrupt or butt in like some rude jackal but when he speaks you can hear his belief and his dedication. His words carry power. Let him be that last respectful, honest man and stop trying to remake him into Gingrich-lite or BachMan.

wgadget
02-25-2012, 08:48 PM
I think the "libertarian" side of Ron allows him to be a little more lassez-faire with his politics than we'd like. ;)

Slimdude20
02-25-2012, 09:01 PM
I believe in my heart he is already doing everything he can, and all that the establishment will let him do. One of the things I like most about him Is that he Doesn't want to be president for himself. He's doing it out of love and duty to this country.He doesn't want that power like the rest of them do for selfish reasons. He's trying to help, like the good doctor he is. And that is the type of leader we need. So I disagree that "he's not in it to win it". From his perspective our lives and our liberties are one the line and he is throwing everything he's got against a trillion dollar industry that would like nothing more than to silence him.

Chief L
02-25-2012, 09:10 PM
If you can't see his true passion, you're blind.

You're missing the point man. It doesn't matter if you or I see his passion. You and I will vote for him no matter what. Anything short of him coming out and admitting a thirty year affair with Hillary Clinton and professing his undying love for the Chicago Cubs and he has my vote. It isn't about us. It is about those undecided voters who don't eat, sleep and breathe Ron Paul like us that he has to do something to win over. Screw moral victories and affecting the platform. This country needs him to lead.

jolynna
02-25-2012, 09:18 PM
He didn't endorse McCain, he didn't vote for either Bush, left the party because of Reagan...

What makes you think he'd endorse Romney? He has said many times that unless Romney changed his ideas, he wouldn't get Ron's endorsement.

I don't think he'd endorse Romney.

But, the way things have gone down, with the attack ads on Santorum (in MUST WIN MI for Romney), PLUS the rumors of an alliance that weren't immediately and vigorously stomped down, gave Romney an indirect stamp of approval.

As a result Romney has risen in the Michigan polls.

I WISH Ron Paul had used his advertising money in Michigan promoting himself. I wish he'd pushed how he is different from all THREE other GOP candidates (and Obama).

Ron Paul is the ONLY one that deserves to be considered as BETTER in ANY way from the rest. But, that is being missed while his name is being "used" to "up" Romney. Quite frankly the rumors linking Paul with Romney bring Ron Paul down. While Romney benefits from the association.

Matthanuf06
02-25-2012, 10:09 PM
You're missing the point man. It doesn't matter if you or I see his passion. You and I will vote for him no matter what. Anything short of him coming out and admitting a thirty year affair with Hillary Clinton and professing his undying love for the Chicago Cubs and he has my vote. It isn't about us. It is about those undecided voters who don't eat, sleep and breathe Ron Paul like us that he has to do something to win over. Screw moral victories and affecting the platform. This country needs him to lead.

Winner winner.

If people haven't noticed the "best ideas", really however you want to define that, doesn't remotely guarantee winning any election at any level. If someone really wants Paul to rely just on his ideas, then they are insane. Hed have no chance.

That being said the reason why the last debate was by far his best was that he got rid of the academic shtick. He spoke to the crowd, gave some fluff answers that poll well, and didn't just lecture over everyone's head.

At this point it's ALL about winning undecided votes. Us committed grassroots should be the last consideration to anything he says in public.

Chief L
02-25-2012, 10:39 PM
Winner winner.

If people haven't noticed the "best ideas", really however you want to define that, doesn't remotely guarantee winning any election at any level. If someone really wants Paul to rely just on his ideas, then they are insane. Hed have no chance.

That being said the reason why the last debate was by far his best was that he got rid of the academic shtick. He spoke to the crowd, gave some fluff answers that poll well, and didn't just lecture over everyone's head.

At this point it's ALL about winning undecided votes. Us committed grassroots should be the last consideration to anything he says in public.

Holy smokes! Thank you! Someone gets it!

frickettz
02-25-2012, 11:18 PM
I agreed with every word of that. With that said I do believe Paul's getting more confident and excited. I expect a tipping point to occur within two weeks.
^this

robskicks
02-25-2012, 11:38 PM
For someone who openly booed Ron Paul three short years ago to question a man of his consistent integrity is unnecessary and uncalled for. So shut the fuck up.

PierzStyx
02-25-2012, 11:42 PM
You're missing the point man. It doesn't matter if you or I see his passion. You and I will vote for him no matter what. Anything short of him coming out and admitting a thirty year affair with Hillary Clinton and professing his undying love for the Chicago Cubs and he has my vote. It isn't about us. It is about those undecided voters who don't eat, sleep and breathe Ron Paul like us that he has to do something to win over. Screw moral victories and affecting the platform. This country needs him to lead.

He IS leading! That is what I am trying to say. He is leading as he should. He isn't appealing to fear, or anger, or greed. He is appealing to the better natures of men with wisdom and truth. And that is the kind of leader we need. If he doesn't win being amoral and upright man then it isn't his fault. Its ours; America's. And really my point about passion isn't so much about what I see in him. It is how he is in the debates. He never backed down. He never wavered. And when it came down to it refused to give in. And he got firey about his positions too. He just didn't sit up there and quietly get trod over. He fought back. He told it as it was.

Travlyr
02-26-2012, 12:03 AM
Are Chief L, Roy L, and Tom L related?

Chief L
02-26-2012, 12:15 AM
For someone who openly booed Ron Paul three short years ago to question a man of his consistent integrity is unnecessary and uncalled for. So shut the fuck up.
your math is terrible. The last campaign was more than three years ago. That being said,I openly admit that I ridiculed Ron Paul during the last election. During that time I was still searching for Abu Ayub Al Masri and Abu Umar Al Baghdadi and fully believed the hype that they hated us because of who we were and what we stood for. I was wrong. That still doesn't change my point that he won't win the election with his current tact. What were you doing four years ago?

Chief L
02-26-2012, 12:18 AM
Are Chief L, Roy L, and Tom L related?

I'm an old douche so I doubt it.

Paul4Prez
02-26-2012, 01:48 AM
All I would want to say to Ron Paul is:

Thank you for all the sacrifices you've made for the cause of liberty, and the hope for peace, and the eventual return of prosperity.

Crickett
02-26-2012, 02:04 AM
He's said he disagrees with Romney on virtually all of the issues, and said his beef with Santorum is that he doesn't like him personally or in terms of the issues, and that Romney is simply more cordial than the other two candidates. What do you want him to do, shoot the other candidates on stage and declare on live TV that he's nuking Congress and the White House for treasonous behavior?
When Santorum shook Ron's hand (body, really) did you see how Ron got up out of his chair when he saw what Sant was doing and then Sant patted him on the back like saying "I was kidding. Don't hurt me.." I had to laugh..

Anti Federalist
02-26-2012, 02:53 AM
"In June 2011, Santorum said he would continue to 'fight very strongly against libertarian influence within the Republican party and the conservative movement.' In an NPR interview in the summer of 2005, Santorum discussed what he called the 'libertarianish right,' saying 'they have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do. Government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulation low and that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn't get involved in cultural issues, you know, people should do whatever they want. Well, that is not how traditional conservatives view the world, and I think most conservatives understand that individuals can't go it alone...'"

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/106226.html

WD-NY
02-26-2012, 02:55 AM
I agreed with every word of that. With that said I do believe Paul's getting more confident and excited. I expect a tipping point to occur within two weeks.

I agree too, but not with every word - just half.

He's right that Ron needs to be more serious about winning because not being serious will result in an entire new generation of 'former-and-forever-disgruntled- Ron-Paul-supporters' (ala the 2008-ers).

And he's right that serious means defending his positions.

But he's wrong that serious = "They need you to show fire and brimstone when others suggest that your foreign policy is isolationist". People eventually figure out the difference between bark and bite... Being all fire and brimstone like Santorum = all bark. And sure, barking can work for a little while, but eventually the people get sick of your yapping and want you to shut the fuck up.

So what's bite? Bite = Speeches that make even the most partisan, anti-Paul members of the press go "damn, that was some serious shit Paul just said to the crowd - where the hell did that come from?? Had no idea that Paul was capable of that sort of writing...Dare I say, Obama-esque?? ::begins to panic a little::"

Give a big speech or two, and I honestly think Ron can pull off a couple caucuses in March.

But if he decides to instead continue delivering the same dang stump speech at every rally leading up to Super Tuesday, then it won't matter how gruff & tough he sounds because barking loudly doesn't win elections. Ideas do.

And Ideas are delivered best through prepared speeches. Every other form of communication pales in comparison.

Captain Shays
02-26-2012, 08:08 AM
I want to ad some things to this open letter if I may.

First of all, I agree that Ron Paul doesn't seem to be running for president as much as he is running to get a message out. But the fact is, as your letter points out is that we don't have time to educate our way into enough votes to actually WIN the GOP nomination.
The other candidates seem to articulate their false imitation of Ron Paul's message more often and sometimes better than he does his genuine message. They seem to be running against Obama already and Ron Paul seems to be running against the establishment--which he is. I understand that he criticizes the policies that the other GOP nominees share with Obama but he doesn't make it clear enough to the people watching the debates that those policies that Gingrich, Romney and Santorum are exactly the same as those of Obama. Policing the world, keeping the IRS in place, using corporate welfare to merge government and corporations, allowing a corporation that is registered in Delaware to control the money supply of our entire country, and robbing us of our essential liberties in a farse to keep us safe. I just wish he would point out a few of the abuses of the TSA point blank and ask the people "what is the point in being safe if we're not free"? Or asking "which other country would you be willing to sacrice your own son for"? Or "How many friends do you have in Kuwaite that you are willing to die for rather than send someone else's son to die for"?

Last but possibly most important, I think Ron Paul wins the argument on the things that he says he won't do. He won't take our freedoms. He won't send us into an unnecessary war without a declaration". He won't give out nation welfare (foreign aid). He won't grow government.

What he needs now to convince the left overs is for him to start saying what HE WILL DO.

What WILL YOU DO to keep us safe when you stop policing the world? What will keep us safe without the Patriot Act and NDAA? WHat will you do to get gas prices low and restore our prosperity? How does this work?

I want to hear from Ron Paul that he will work to install a workable missile defense shield and that he will send our navy to intercept all ships before they can pose a threat. That he will secure our borders and how he will do it.
That he will stop the taking of our guns so that we can be the last bulwark against any kind of invasion from foreignors and that we can help to protect our own communities and schools and infrasture because the govenrment cannot.

That folks is exactly what the other candidates ARE doing. They are making their hair brained freedom robbing schemes public and making them sound workable to a naive un-informed mass with the help of the media.

Many of us Ron Paul supporters don't understand something that is VERY important. You MUST KNOW this in order to have faith in this man and this campaign and this message.

The reason Ron Paul wins on the idea of not policing the world and sticking our noses in the business of other countries is because that sentiment is actually inherently American. It's deeper in our thinking as an identifier as to who we are as a people than apple pie and baseball and it predates baseball.

We started out as a neutral country. We were founded on peace and prosperity and independence and minding our own business. Ron Paul brings out that sentiment.

But we've also been propagandized for MANY YEARS through our schools, politicians, the media and each other into thinking that we are the police of the world. That it's up to american sons to die in foreign countries when our politicians say it's a "noble cause" or that it's"the right thing" yet deep down most of us also understand that the politicians rarely send their own sons and they themselves rarely serve in the military. It's our sons who die in these wars that have no value relative to our own national security or protection of our freedoms.
But since we've been lied to and propagandized into thinking that if we don't police the world the hoards of barbarians will be pushing at our doors to kill us and take us over, rape our wives and daughters and take all our gold. It's a lie but STILL a deep and prolonged lie and a very convincing lie and ONLY RON PAUL can un do that lie and the way he can do it is simply by saying WHAT HE WILL DO TO KEEP US SAFE and to give details about his plan to keep us safe. What weapons does he support? How and when would he be willing to make the enemy bleed? What lenghts will he go to to keep us safe and strong? Yes we understand that no longer being the police will stop creating new enemies but STILL there are enemies either real or imagined out there that people want to feell that their government-their President Paul will protect them from.


Sorry for that being so long







Rev9

Ender
02-26-2012, 09:45 AM
You're missing the point man. It doesn't matter if you or I see his passion. You and I will vote for him no matter what. Anything short of him coming out and admitting a thirty year affair with Hillary Clinton and professing his undying love for the Chicago Cubs and he has my vote. It isn't about us. It is about those undecided voters who don't eat, sleep and breathe Ron Paul like us that he has to do something to win over. Screw moral victories and affecting the platform. This country needs him to lead.

YOU are missing the point.

Soft spoken and kind Dr Ron Paul has woken up a whole generation by being exactly what he is.

And he has done this with the MSM totally ignoring him or making fun of him. He has done what no other candidate has done since before Lincoln. He has told the truth and the truth has slapped the younger generation upside the head because we had never heard it before.

This is a grassroots movement (like the name of the forum- Grassroots- get it?). If you want fire, then get your individual ass out there and fire up more people. Each one of us, as converts to freedom, have a huge responsibility to teach others- Ron Paul cannot possibly do it all.

The reason we love him is because he is NOT Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, ad nauseum.

Time for us all to take the red pill and help others out of The Matrix.

Chief L
02-26-2012, 10:32 AM
YOU are missing the point.

Soft spoken and kind Dr Ron Paul has woken up a whole generation by being exactly what he is.

And he has done this with the MSM totally ignoring him or making fun of him. He has done what no other candidate has done since before Lincoln. He has told the truth and the truth has slapped the younger generation upside the head because we had never heard it before.

This is a grassroots movement (like the name of the forum- Grassroots- get it?). If you want fire, then get your individual ass out there and fire up more people. Each one of us, as converts to freedom, have a huge responsibility to teach others- Ron Paul cannot possibly do it all.

The reason we love him is because he is NOT Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, ad nauseum.

Time for us all to take the red pill and help others out of The Matrix.

First, I do all that I can to convert voters to Paul, so I don't need you cursing at me or telling me to do so. Civility seems to be an unfamiliar term to a few on this thread. Second, adapting his approach to convince some voters who are on the fence and don't consider him a serious candidate does not change his message nor does it change who he is. It certainly doesn't make him like the other empty suits you mentioned.

The bottom line is this: if he refuses to do more to broaden his appeal, he WILL lose. You can't argue that. No one can. It is fact. You and others may be satisfied with a grassroots movement and moral victories, but many aren't. There is simply too much at stake to be satisfied with moral victories. This movement will be destroyed if it moves from speculation to fact that Paul is not running in earnest or if he cuts a deal with Romney. Bet on it. To find out that Paul never intended to win the Presidency would be a slap in the face to a great many of his supporters and would push them away from the movement for good.

Ender
02-26-2012, 11:05 AM
First, I do all that I can to convert voters to Paul, so I don't need you cursing at me or telling me to do so. Civility seems to be an unfamiliar term to a few on this thread. Second, adapting his approach to convince some voters who are on the fence and don't consider him a serious candidate does not change his message nor does it change who he is. It certainly doesn't make him like the other empty suits you mentioned.

The bottom line is this: if he refuses to do more to broaden his appeal, he WILL lose. You can't argue that. No one can. It is fact. You and others may be satisfied with a grassroots movement and moral victories, but many aren't. There is simply too much at stake to be satisfied with moral victories. This movement will be destroyed if it moves from speculation to fact that Paul is not running in earnest or if he cuts a deal with Romney. Bet on it. To find out that Paul never intended to win the Presidency would be a slap in the face to a great many of his supporters and would push them away from the movement for good.

Cursing at you? Hardly.

I get a little tired of the forum being filled with "Ron Paul needs to do this and Ron Paul needs to do that!" Ron Paul is 76 years old and part of the reason he has such appeal now is because he is what he is- an old white guy with 0 charisma and 1000% honesty. You want an empty suit like Reagan who was all charisma and nothing else, or do you want the truth?

The only thing that is going to broaden RP's appeal is EDUCATION and that is where you and I and everyone else on this forum comes in. It is up to us to get the message out. If you have reached 50 people, then double/triple it.

Most people I know say they think Ron Paul might be OK but his SUPPORTERS are nuts, scary, weird. Much of that rep is from the MSM- but if RP supporters come across as intelligent, sane and good people, THAT will do more to help RP than if he, once in a while, has a clever quick comeback like Newt.

ForLiberty2012
02-26-2012, 11:32 AM
Oh so all he has to do is say these all angry and passionate like scared santorum and we will win the nomination? It's NOT Ron Paul's fault. His message is perfect... And his delivery isn't "presidential", but that's EXACTLY why we are so passionate about him, because we know he is up there telling the truth and not spouting talking points to sway votes. Sick of people blaming Ron Paul, when we've been gaining in momentum since 08 despite the lamestream media trying to marginalize him at every attempt. This is why he can't broaden his base. He has the support of people under 30, libertarians, independents, and cross over democrats, but he's struggled to get the support of the older generation because thy rely on msm and they paint him as unelectable, too old, and crazy. The establishment does not want this guy elected because he threatens all their jobs.

Captain Shays
02-26-2012, 11:54 AM
Wrong. He's running for a message not the White House. He's running against policies not Obama. I agree with him on everythnig and I agree with running on the message but let's face it. We're sold out already. The masses are not sold out. They need "something" to assauge their leader cult indocrination.

My take is foreign policy. Like I said. He wins on non interventionism because that is who we are as Americans. It's inherent. It's in our hearts though it may be deep down at this point being covered up by lies and propaganda from many sources for a very long time.

He and we can overcome that somewhat easily. All he needs to do it tell the American people exactly what he will do to keep us safe and free in no uncertain terms and he WILL WIN this thing.

Badger for Paul
02-26-2012, 12:02 PM
Except for the part about being a hater in '08, I agree completely with the letter.

musicmax
02-26-2012, 12:28 PM
If Ron has enough delegates he can negotiate a change of platform policies from what I understand.

The 2008 platform had strong anti-bailout language. The co-chair of the platform committee, Richard Burr of NC, voted for the bailout. The platform is MEANINGLESS.

Chief L
02-26-2012, 12:52 PM
Oh so all he has to do is say these all angry and passionate like scared santorum and we will win the nomination? It's NOT Ron Paul's fault. His message is perfect... And his delivery isn't "presidential", but that's EXACTLY why we are so passionate about him, because we know he is up there telling the truth and not spouting talking points to sway votes. Sick of people blaming Ron Paul, when we've been gaining in momentum since 08 despite the lamestream media trying to marginalize him at every attempt. This is why he can't broaden his base. He has the support of people under 30, libertarians, independents, and cross over democrats, but he's struggled to get the support of the older generation because thy rely on msm and they paint him as unelectable, too old, and crazy. The establishment does not want this guy elected because he threatens all their jobs.

Alright, I have two questions for you and the others who argue against the open letter:

1. Do you honestly believe that if he continues with the same style he has used so far that he will win the nomination?

2. Do you honestly believe that if he secures enough delegates to get a speaking role and some concessions from the eventual nominee that the eventual nominee will follow through on those concessions once in the White House?

If you answer "yes" to either of those questions, then you are naive.

I don't want him to change his message. I just want him to use an approach that will appeal to a broader base of voters. That doesn't make him a sellout. It makes him President.

jay_dub
02-26-2012, 12:56 PM
I mostly agree with the letter. I see little purpose in running an educational campaign. He has to be in it to win it and it has to show.

That being said, Ron lit up the last debate and I couldn't be more proud to be a supporter of his. If we see more of that Ron, we may well be seeing the next POTUS.

However, I listened to some of his speech yesterday and it's more of the same old preaching to the choir. There's no takeaway from his stump speech for the uncommitted voter. If they haven't caught on by now with that message, they never will. What's that about insanity being defined as doing the same thing and expecting a different result?

And then we have the ads. Some of them are so un-Ron Paul like as to be laughable. The big dog ad, the serial hypocrite ad. It's like they're geared for the young voter, but that's not who he needs to convince. Plus, if some are saying Ron will be Ron and you can't change it, why have ads that are so unlike him?

Frankly, I've heard enough about liberty and that message has done all it will do already. I'm not saying throw it out the window, but Ron is so right just on a practical level that liberty can be used to back up the common sense of his policies rather than common sense backing up the liberty theme. Ron touched on this the other night with his appeal to think twice about our pro-war stance based on economic principles.

As I see it, Ron is being hurt by perception on 3 issues: drugs, foreign policy and electability.

On the drug issue, I would love to see him come out straight forward and say he is not for legalizing drugs, but he is for it not being a federal issue. To this point, he has left hanging a wrong impression and that turns off a lot of older voters.

Foreign policy: That's a tougher nut to crack, but he's slowly turning that around. Words like empire don't help with the average voter, though. And why he hasn't dropped some names of those influential people that say Iran is not developing a nuclear weapon is beyond me. Maybe an ad would help in this regard?

Electability is 100% perception. Dispelling the Romney alliance is now a part of that. It's hard to attack Romney due to his money being able to outgun us, but nothing wrong with drawing sharp distinctions. Doubling the size of our Navy while sitting on $16 trillion in debt (a Romney position) is one such distinction.

I'd also like RP to remind voters that we are at war with the whole world (GWOT) and that lives depend on this election. Maybe use a variation on the Reagan theme. You know, when he asked if we were better off than we were 4 years ago. He could ask are you safer than you were 4 years ago with all the money being spent, all the lives being lost and all the unrest that is still in the world. Is it time to commit to more wars or time to realize that war is creating more enemies and we should remember that many wars have been averted in the past with diplomacy?

This election means so much. Our choice literally is the choice between life and death for many. We are each responsible for that choice and will each bear responsibility for the consequences. It's time to put the pom-poms down, stop the chants and get on with the serious business of being the beacon of freedom that we have been blessed to be.

Paulatized
02-26-2012, 01:11 PM
Your expectations are based on what exactly? Did Rush die? Did Levin die? Did Hannity die? Did Beck die? Did O'Reilly die?

The sell out establishment and these fake conservatives are standing in the way. They are in control as evident of their all out nuclear attack and smear on Ron Paul that started back in December once he rose in Iowa. These talk radio hosts are "FAKE." They are vile, nasty and hateful.

I wish we could "expect a tipping point." But it's just not going to happen as long as those dick douches above are in control of the Republican Party.

This is why I have always advocated Ron running Indy where 30-35% of American are registered.

Ron Paul can't be bought out and that infuriates the Republican whores in power.


I agreed with every word of that. With that said I do believe Paul's getting more confident and excited. I expect a tipping point to occur within two weeks.

I truly believe Ron is winning the hearts and minds of the common true Constitution loving American people, in spite of the establishment Republicans and water carriers (Rush, Levin, and Hannity types), and that number of people is very close to the tipping point of a liberating realization. Crowds are increasing exponentially as eyes are opening.

WD-NY
02-26-2012, 01:28 PM
Watch the Kennedy speech on Religion. Watch any of the speeches that Obama delivered in 2008.

We might not agree with them but guess what, they defended/presented their positions/vision better than the other guy and as a result, won the battle.

Ron hasn't delivered a single prepared speech this entire election. 95% of his 'why you should vote for me' message has been communicated completely off-the-cuff to the america voter (5% for TV commercials). Think about that.

ForLiberty2012
02-27-2012, 01:45 AM
Alright, I have two questions for you and the others who argue against the open letter:

1. Do you honestly believe that if he continues with the same style he has used so far that he will win the nomination?

2. Do you honestly believe that if he secures enough delegates to get a speaking role and some concessions from the eventual nominee that the eventual nominee will follow through on those concessions once in the White House?

If you answer "yes" to either of those questions, then you are naive.

I don't want him to change his message. I just want him to use an approach that will appeal to a broader base of voters. That doesn't make him a sellout. It makes him President.

Do you honestly believe if he gets "fire in his belly", all the sudden people are going to magically wake up? People are scared of Iran because of the lamestream media spewing it's war mongering and they STILL paint Ron Paul as an isolationist. They won't put out his message of peace and free trade, they just call it crazy and say Ron Paul wants to let Iran get a nuke and let your seniors die in the streets.... not to mention the whole racist garbage. We are going against the establishment dude. The whole republican party wants to intervene in Iran... actually democrats do too. That's the big issue. They boo him every time he gives his opinion on the matter. It's not Ron Paul being "Presidential"... What do you think Ron Paul can say in a quick swoop to convince the war mongers they are wrong about Iran? They don't want him to be the candidate. It's as simple as that. Talk to any republican that doesn't support Ron Paul. They won't say he's not "presidential". They will say he's crazy because he wants to pull the troops home and let Iran get a nuke. The only way he will be able to broaden his support is if the establishment stops war mongering, he changes his foreign policy, or he continues trying to educate people on the matter like he's been doing. The only one that can happen is option number 3. Did you hear a sound bite that sounded presidential and that's why you were drawn to Ron Paul? No, you probably listened to him explain in detail about why our foreign policy is flawed, and eventually it sank in and you realized he was right.

Chief L
02-27-2012, 07:07 AM
Do you honestly believe if he gets "fire in his belly", all the sudden people are going to magically wake up? People are scared of Iran because of the lamestream media spewing it's war mongering and they STILL paint Ron Paul as an isolationist. They won't put out his message of peace and free trade, they just call it crazy and say Ron Paul wants to let Iran get a nuke and let your seniors die in the streets.... not to mention the whole racist garbage. We are going against the establishment dude. The whole republican party wants to intervene in Iran... actually democrats do too. That's the big issue. They boo him every time he gives his opinion on the matter. It's not Ron Paul being "Presidential"... What do you think Ron Paul can say in a quick swoop to convince the war mongers they are wrong about Iran? They don't want him to be the candidate. It's as simple as that. Talk to any republican that doesn't support Ron Paul. They won't say he's not "presidential". They will say he's crazy because he wants to pull the troops home and let Iran get a nuke. The only way he will be able to broaden his support is if the establishment stops war mongering, he changes his foreign policy, or he continues trying to educate people on the matter like he's been doing. The only one that can happen is option number 3. Did you hear a sound bite that sounded presidential and that's why you were drawn to Ron Paul? No, you probably listened to him explain in detail about why our foreign policy is flawed, and eventually it sank in and you realized he was right.

Not gonna happen in time to gather enough delegates to win the nomination, which brings me back to the original point: If he does not change his delivery to expand his base and expand it fast, he WILL LOSE. I notice you (and the others who disagree) haven't been able to argue against the fact that he will lose on the current course. You may be happy with spreading the message and making a point to the establishment. I'm not. Anything short of a victory is failure to me.