Gas Prices Running High: reason according to Dobbs

[FrancisMarion]

First off, I come here to seek information from you well versed people.

In this link Dobbs goes onto say how the mild winter and us selling oil to China (creating less supply here) has caused gas prices to run high when they shouldn't be.

Here is the link: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2012/02/20/why-are-gas-prices-so-high?page=1

I hate to torture you all with this interview but this is what is being said to millions of people and I think it important to address it. Now we all know that there are factors in the middle east that are setting the price but does this report bear any merit?

[narrowphoenix]

Gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down. That simple!

"END THE FED!" - RON PAUL

[FrancisMarion]

Gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down. That simple!

"END THE FED!" - RON PAUL

No, if oil was traded in gold, it would cost more gold.

[Pericles]

Gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down. That simple!

"END THE FED!" - RON PAUL

Partly true, there also hasn't been a refinery built in the US in the last 30+ years. Its not just how much oil you've got, the oil has to be refined into gasoline.

[Brian4Liberty]

Gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down. That simple!


That.


Partly true, there also hasn't been a refinery built in the US in the last 30+ years. Its not just how much oil you've got, the oil has to be refined into gasoline.

And that.

And the export of oil from the US.
And the export of refined products (like gasoline) from the US.
And the consent of the environmentalists who want the price to go up.
And the consent of the neo-conservatives who want it to be an excuse to go to war with Iran.
And the creation of a mini-bubble for commodities gamblers to make some money.
And the willingness of the Petroleum Oligopoly to go along with all of the above and set their prices higher.

Hardly ever is it a single factor.

[IDefendThePlatform]

If we somehow pull this out and Ron Paul gets elected President, I'm setting the over/under on gas prices at $2.00 a gallon by the end of his first term.

[AFPVet]

While inflation plays a part, speculators are largely to blame. Look at what's going on about Iran....

[pcosmar]

While inflation plays a part, speculators are largely to blame. Look at what's going on about Iran....

Yup,
My observation is that the prices go up with the tempo of the War Drums.

Just wait till the Straits are closed. (a predictable consequence)

[ForLiberty2012]

Problem is, the price of oil is still more than unit elasticity (inelastic). Therefore, it can still rise higher to maximize profit. The elites know this. And the elites run the world.

[moderate libertarian]

Some shocking claims by press tv, it reports oil prices going up because sanctions backfiring on Europe nations:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/228345.html

[The Gold Standard]

While inflation plays a part, speculators are largely to blame. Look at what's going on about Iran....

What do you think they are speculating with? When the Fed creates new money and passes it out to the bankers, they speculate with it. Inflation isn't the only thing affecting oil prices, but it is the most important factor.

[The Gold Standard]

If we somehow pull this out and Ron Paul gets elected President, I'm setting the over/under on gas prices at $2.00 a gallon by the end of his first term.

If he could get competing currencies passed in Congress gas might get under $1/gallon, depending on how the Fed would react to that.

[wannaberocker]

I saw Bill Oriley quoting DObbs on the issue. It annoyed me because he tried to overly simplify it and acted like the free market was screwing people. He went on an on about "oh we have plenty of supply and exxon has record profits" blah blah.

Every year when the prices for gas go up. THe talking heads pick one aspect of the market to blame last year it was "oh those evil speculators" and this year its "oh those chinese buying our oil".

[IDefendThePlatform]

If he could get competing currencies passed in Congress gas might get under $1/gallon, depending on how the Fed would react to that.

Sounds good. I'll put you down for the unders then. Standard $10,000 bet right? :)

I might need to head over to democraticunderground to get some people to bet the overs.

[rockerrockstar]

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Inflation_adjusted_gasoline_price.jpg

I found this at http://inflationdata.com/

[AFPVet]

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Inflation_adjusted_gasoline_price.jpg

I found this at http://inflationdata.com/

Thanks for the chart :)

[Madison320]

No, if oil was traded in gold, it would cost more gold.

What time frame are you using? In 1970 when we were still on a gold standard oil was $4 a barrel, gold was $35 an ounce. That's .11 ounces of gold for one barrel. Now gold is 1770 and oil is 109. That's .06 ounces of gold. So it's almost half the price it was in 1970.

Maybe you were using 1980? Watch out for anyone who uses 1980 and gold as a reference point. Gold skyrocketed up and back down in 1980.

[FrancisMarion]

What time frame are you using? In 1970 when we were still on a gold standard oil was $4 a barrel, gold was $35 an ounce. That's .11 ounces of gold for one barrel. Now gold is 1770 and oil is 109. That's .06 ounces of gold. So it's almost half the price it was in 1970.

Maybe you were using 1980? Watch out for anyone who uses 1980 and gold as a reference point. Gold skyrocketed up and back down in 1980.

Maybe I was using a bad example. I see where you are going with this. So, I have a question: If we were buying gasoline at the pump with a gold backed dollar would we not be spending more today than we were in the recent past. In other words, would the price of gas not being going up like it has with a fiat dollar? I think it would be doing the same when you look at value from day to day based on rising or falling percentages.

It seems to me that the great increase in gold is because it is NOT associated with the dollar. Its hedging against a fiat currency.

The thread was asking for the factors of why we are paying more for oil /gas, so we can discredit the fox news meme. In turn we can change people's minds without going into the breadth of a topic like monetary policy.

[Kingfisher]

Using Real Constitutional Money(Gold and Silver) gasoline is cheaper now than it was in 1960 and before! Using fiat paper its much higher.
Thanks Federal Reserve!

[otherone]

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2011/5/1/283110-13042684492036-Bob-van-der-Valk.png

It's called 'fraud'. All the industry has to do to increase profit is to buy more oil futures, artificially raising the price on current inventory, and immediately passing those costs directly on consumers.

[The Gold Standard]

Maybe I was using a bad example. I see where you are going with this. So, I have a question: If we were buying gasoline at the pump with a gold backed dollar would we not be spending more today than we were in the recent past. In other words, would the price of gas not being going up like it has with a fiat dollar? I think it would be doing the same when you look at value from day to day based on rising or falling percentages.

It seems to me that the great increase in gold is because it is NOT associated with the dollar. Its hedging against a fiat currency.

The thread was asking for the factors of why we are paying more for oil /gas, so we can discredit the fox news meme. In turn we can change people's minds without going into the breadth of a topic like monetary policy.

If by recent past you mean the recent run up in prices so far this year, there is a slight increase in the price of oil due to the warmongering with Iran. Very slight.

Using rough numbers, gold was $1,550 on January 1, and oil was around $95. That is .0613 oz/barrel. Right now gold is $1,780 and oil is $110. That is .0618 oz/barrel.

In general people aren't rushing to gold because of war with Iran (well, they could be because we will have to print the money to pay for the war, but that is a different story). Dollars just don't buy as much gold and oil as they did 2 months ago. If and when Europe falls apart the dollar will have a dead cat bounce, and then when Europe gets settled for good, the dollar will fall off of a cliff.

[HOLLYWOOD]

That.



And that.

And the export of oil from the US.
And the export of refined products (like gasoline) from the US.
And the consent of the environmentalists who want the price to go up.
And the consent of the neo-conservatives who want it to be an excuse to go to war with Iran.
And the creation of a mini-bubble for commodities gamblers to make some money.
And the willingness of the Petroleum Oligopoly to go along with all of the above and set their prices higher.

Hardly ever is it a single factor.Yes and there are plenty of other reasons unknown to the Public... ALL THOSE TREATIES, should be called "WHEELING & DEALING"

Japan trade agreement provides them with all the Alaskan Prudhoe Crude they need in return for the US occupying their nation, but Japan receives discounts on militay weaponry and fishing protections.

NAFTA deal send jobs and corporations to CANADA & MEXICO in exchange for ALL THE OIL the US may desire... so if the US needs 100% of Canadian and Mexican crude exports... it all comes home first.

Next in the past 3 years US refinery capacity has shutdown or closed 2 Million BBL/day in capacity.

Prices up? Well the Crude is priced to North Sea Brent not WTI. What's dealt with overseas is what exchange done for foreign crude... US FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES. Worth less and less... it's a huge tax on consumers of fuel and EVERYTHING related to energy prices: Airline tickets, postal/shipping, food, hell everything. This is how the state apparatus operates to silently steal from Americans. Higher the prices, also equates to more tax revenue for states/feds. 10% excise tax on airline tickets, state sales tax on gas/petroleum products, etc.

The US economy is using less fossil fuels today. U.S. oil consumption peaked in 2005, at about 21 million barrels per day, and the trend is expected to continue downward for the rest of the decade. What's going on? Here are eight reasons America will keep reducing its thirst for oil.

Read more: http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/8_ways_using_less_oil/1.html#ixzz1nPyKmnZj




http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/8_ways_using_less_oil/1.html

[Tod]

Gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down. That simple!

"END THE FED!" - RON PAUL

I'll tell you, I'm really noticing grocery prices rising. There IS some serious inflation occurring.

[ZenBowman]

Gas will trend consistently upwards for the next 50 years, regardless of whether Paul gets elected.

Demand will rise greatly as India and China grow.

There may be valleys, but the general trend will be upward. I for one plan on buying oil futures.

[Madison320]

Maybe I was using a bad example. I see where you are going with this. So, I have a question: If we were buying gasoline at the pump with a gold backed dollar would we not be spending more today than we were in the recent past. In other words, would the price of gas not being going up like it has with a fiat dollar? I think it would be doing the same when you look at value from day to day based on rising or falling percentages.

It seems to me that the great increase in gold is because it is NOT associated with the dollar. Its hedging against a fiat currency.

The thread was asking for the factors of why we are paying more for oil /gas, so we can discredit the fox news meme. In turn we can change people's minds without going into the breadth of a topic like monetary policy.

I'm not sure what you are saying. If we were on a gold standard the price of gas would clearly be going down gradually. I would guess that's because the advances in technology in getting oil out of the ground are currently outweighing the fact that we are slowly running out of oil.

[Madison320]

I'll tell you, I'm really noticing grocery prices rising. There IS some serious inflation occurring.

Yup, I've been noticing it also. But it's still low enough that people are accepting the government numbers. I think we're going to have a Zimbabwe dollar moment where price increases are going to become painfully obvious. Prices will be going up every few weeks. That's when the stuff is going to hit the fan.

[ronpaulfollower999]

In 1964 a gallon of gasoline cost about $0.30 or 3 silver dimes. Today those same 3 silver dimes are worth $7.67 which can get you almost 2 gallons of gas. When priced in real money the price of gasoline has actually decreased.

[LibForestPaul]

I saw Bill Oriley quoting DObbs on the issue. It annoyed me because he tried to overly simplify it and acted like the free market was screwing people. He went on an on about "oh we have plenty of supply and exxon has record profits" blah blah.

Every year when the prices for gas go up. THe talking heads pick one aspect of the market to blame last year it was "oh those evil speculators" and this year its "oh those chinese buying our oil".

Many mundanes love these ideas. They love using violence against others. So when they get bent over, I will simply smile a little grin. Only consolation of the coming times. Seriously do not know who disgusts me more, the mundanes or the elites.

[PaulConventionWV]

No, if oil was traded in gold, it would cost more gold.

Are you sure about that? How do you know?

[Kingfisher]

No, if oil was traded in gold, it would cost more gold.

In 1960 oil was about $3.00 per barrel or 9 ounces of gold.

Now you can buy 16 barrels for ONE ounce of gold.

[PaulConventionWV]

Yup, I've been noticing it also. But it's still low enough that people are accepting the government numbers. I think we're going to have a Zimbabwe dollar moment where price increases are going to become painfully obvious. Prices will be going up every few weeks. That's when the stuff is going to hit the fan.

I hate to use this as an example, but for most of my childhood, a family-sized bag of potato chips was always 3.99. Lately, it's risen to 4.29 seemingly with nothing affecting the supply and demand of a bag of potato chips. That's a 10% increase and the only thing that could have caused it is inflation unless I missed some big news about a change in the potato chip industry. Inflation is definitely happening.

[PaulConventionWV]

Frankly, and I know it's ironic, but I'm glad I have a job that requires me to burn a lot of gas. I run a paper route and I get reimbursed for gas. If prices of gas go up, my pay goes up. Granted, this may hurt the company in the long run if prices keep rising, but I feel my job is pretty secure for now. Also, my route pays for more mileage than it actually takes for me to run the route so I am also compensated for the trip I take to actually get the papers to run the route. It's pretty sweet and guarantees I won't be hurt as much by rising gas prices as many others will.

[FrancisMarion]

Are you sure about that? How do you know?

No, I am not sure about that. Most likely I was wrong in that statement. I am going to research more into the value of gold's contributing factors and the value of the dollar's contributing factors. Small subject eh?

I just don't buy that the value or "cost" ,(regardless of the medium for exchange) would be going down over the past century. I cannot speak of supply but it is plainly obvious there is a burgeoning demand of dino juice with the rise of many previous "third world" countries. Without looking at numbers (which I should do) my gut tells me that the simple law of supply and demand is going to drive the "price" up. If I'm wrong please explain as I don't mind being wrong, just want to know.

[The Gold Standard]

No, I am not sure about that. Most likely I was wrong in that statement. I am going to research more into the value of gold's contributing factors and the value of the dollar's contributing factors. Small subject eh?

I just don't buy that the value or "cost" ,(regardless of the medium for exchange) would be going down over the past century. I cannot speak of supply but it is plainly obvious there is a burgeoning demand of dino juice with the rise of many previous "third world" countries. Without looking at numbers (which I should do) my gut tells me that the simple law of supply and demand is going to drive the "price" up. If I'm wrong please explain as I don't mind being wrong, just want to know.

Why wouldn't it make sense that oil is cheaper now than in the past? Yes there is more demand, but there is also a lot more supply and new technology making it easier to get out of the ground.

[azxd]

No, if oil was traded in gold, it would cost more gold.
This is only true if you value gold against the U.S. dollar.

[azxd]

What do you think they are speculating with? When the Fed creates new money and passes it out to the bankers, they speculate with it. Inflation isn't the only thing affecting oil prices, but it is the most important factor.I agree !!!

[Brian4Liberty]

In 1960 oil was about $3.00 per barrel or 9 ounces of gold.

Now you can buy 16 barrels for ONE ounce of gold.

Better check your math there. ;)

In 1960 gold was about $35/oz. That would buy over 11 barrels of oil at $3/barrel.

[pcosmar]

On a side note.
Does anyone remember the Oil (extortion)Embargo of the 70s?

Has anyone noticed that there have been NO NEW refineries, Nuclear plants or oil field development since that time.
The rise of OPEC (Saudi Arabia) has a virtual monopoly on all sales since that time.

I'm sure that it is purely coincidental. :rolleyes:

[azxd]

On a side note.
Does anyone remember the Oil (extortion)Embargo of the 70s?

Has anyone noticed that there have been NO NEW refineries, Nuclear plants or oil field development since that time.
The rise of OPEC (Saudi Arabia) has a virtual monopoly on all sales since that time.

I'm sure that it is purely coincidental. :rolleyes:Iran, 1953, occurred for a reason.

[FrancisMarion]

On a side note.
Does anyone remember the Oil (extortion)Embargo of the 70s?

Has anyone noticed that there have been NO NEW refineries, Nuclear plants or oil field development since that time.
The rise of OPEC (Saudi Arabia) has a virtual monopoly on all sales since that time.

I'm sure that it is purely coincidental. :rolleyes:

A very important side note.

Gold Standard above says that the cost should be less due to advancing technologies and a greater supply. If we wanted to be entirely accurate, there cannot be a greater supply. It is non-renewable and we have been using it. I agree with him that with the technology we can access more by exploration and extraction.

According to the side note there are no new refineries. Therefore the output capabilities cannot keep up with the demand. When this happens we all know that prices will escalate to hedge the demand.

If this is all true, what is keeping competition in the market from opening up new refineries to sell at less of a price?