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View Full Version : Foreign Policy: Military allies: If Canada was attacked?




Lishy
02-22-2012, 02:43 PM
Let's imagine a VERY hypothetical scenario.

Say CANADA was attacked, and declared into a war many thought to be unjustified.

Canada is a great trade partner to America. A blow to America's neighbors up north would indirectly have a blow on America, because not only do they trade their resources like no other country, but a majority of America's OIL is from Canada! (Real Oil, not the Iranian hysteria we're seeing right now..)

Considering Paul's non-interventionism policy, would Paul ever allow the possibility to support Canada if it was outright and unjustly invaded? Even under the condition our troops volunteered to help fend off on whatever invasion in Canada?

It's a very hypothetical scenario. In short, I'm simply wondering if Paul would permit America's troops to volunteer if Canada was invaded?

Or rather, if he would allow congress to debate the matter of helping defend Canada under invasion?

eduardo89
02-22-2012, 03:18 PM
Who the hell would want to attack Canada? If they get attacked, let them (us i guess, im a canadian citizen, although id rather renounce mu citizenship than serve in the canadian military) fend for themselves. Let the US worry about its own security.




It's a very hypothetical scenario. In short, I'm simply wondering if Paul would permit America's troops to volunteer if Canada was invaded?

Or rather, if he would allow congress to debate the matter of helping defend Canada under invasion?

I don't think Americans are allowed to serve in foreign armies.

And if congress declared war on the aggressor then the President is obliged to follow that declaration of war.

specsaregood
02-22-2012, 03:21 PM
It's a very hypothetical scenario. In short, I'm simply wondering if Paul would permit America's troops to volunteer if Canada was invaded?

Or rather, if he would allow congress to debate the matter of helping defend Canada under invasion?

"Allow congress"? I'm sure Dr. Paul would tell you that the president has no authority to order troops to war without congressional approval. that it is actually the otherway around, where congress would "allow the president" to send the troops to war.

Are you implying that in a true situation where america was actually in danger, that Congress would just debate it and not act?

Icymudpuppy
02-22-2012, 03:28 PM
Well, since the economies of Canada and USA are inexplicably intertwined, it would be virtually impossible for a country to attack canada without also attacking the USA to eliminate the USA's ability to supply the Canadians with all manner of logistical necessities. Thus, the attackers would have to also attack the USA to win which would bring us into the war anyway. No need to activate an alliance, just keep trading with Canada as we always do.

Of course, such an endeavor would be suicide. An Ocean crossing assault force, some of the most inhospitable land in the world both in terms of temperatures and terrain. Canada has no reason to fear a land invasion unless it is the USA itself that mounts it.

GeorgiaAvenger
02-22-2012, 03:30 PM
Most likely an attack on Canada would be dangerous for our security and we would get involved.

eduardo89
02-22-2012, 03:30 PM
Canada has no reason to fear a land invasion unless it is the USA itself that mounts it.

I wish the US would annex Canada. Then the US would finally have a decent hockey team and be the best country ever.

specsaregood
02-22-2012, 03:32 PM
I wish the US would annex Canada. Then the US would finally have a decent hockey team and be the best country ever.

IIRC, good bud too.

eduardo89
02-22-2012, 03:32 PM
IIRC, good bud too.

British Columbia's largest export ;)



Due to its contraband nature, it's difficult to determine exactly how much marijuana contributes to the Canadian economy, but a number of agencies and economists have estimated that it is in the range of $20bn per year (12.5bn), making it Canada's single largest agricultural product. The bulk of production is based in British Columbia, where it employs a labour force of 250,000, roughly one in 14 adults.

This article really cracked me up a while back
California pot vote threatens BC bud industry (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/10/27/bc-california-proposition-marijuana.html)

specsaregood
02-22-2012, 03:36 PM
British Columbia's largest export ;)


Well that doesn't necessary speak to quality, it was/is Oklahoma's largest as well.

eduardo89
02-22-2012, 03:37 PM
Well that doesn't necessary speak to quality, it was/is Oklahoma's largest as well.

There's so much demand from Americans for BC bud for a reason.

specsaregood
02-22-2012, 03:38 PM
There's so much demand from Americans for BC bud for a reason.
Yes, that is what I recalled; but its been over a decade now...

Kregisen
02-22-2012, 03:38 PM
Paul's foreign policy is that the Constitution only allows Congress to declare war. If Congress declared war on any country, President Paul would fight the war swiftly and get our troops home ASAP, just like it should be. (remember, we went to WWII and defeated 3 entire countries in less than 4 years > compared to 10 years in Afghanistan with no end in sight)

Barrex
02-22-2012, 03:41 PM
If Canada was attacked?
Santorum would be running half naked on the streets and he would be screaming: I wanted to bomb them first!!!

Feeding the Abscess
02-22-2012, 04:54 PM
Paul's foreign policy is that the Constitution only allows Congress to declare war. If Congress declared war on any country, President Paul would fight the war swiftly and get our troops home ASAP, just like it should be. (remember, we went to WWII and defeated 3 entire countries in less than 4 years > compared to 10 years in Afghanistan with no end in sight)

That's only part of it. Has to conform to the Just War Theory, too. You can have an unjustified level of response or aggressive war even if it is declared by Congress.

Lishy
02-24-2012, 12:24 AM
Well what if Congress approved a declaration of war? Or what about the sale of weapons to back them up? It certainly would be a good means of money without putting any boots on the ground!

IF Canada was attacked, surely there is something a Paul administration can do in some way to help their neighbors?

Non-interventionism is one thing, but Canada IS important to U.S. trade interests, is it not?

If someone broke into your neighbor's house and began attacking him, wouldn't you help stop the criminal in some way?

This is a tough question I'd like to see answered... Ron Paul wants no military offense, but what about defending allies in some way, shape, or form?

Feeding the Abscess
02-24-2012, 12:54 AM
Well what if Congress approved a declaration of war? Or what about the sale of weapons to back them up? It certainly would be a good means of money without putting any boots on the ground!

IF Canada was attacked, surely there is something a Paul administration can do in some way to help their neighbors?

Non-interventionism is one thing, but Canada IS important to U.S. trade interests, is it not?

If someone broke into your neighbor's house and began attacking him, wouldn't you help stop the criminal in some way?

This is a tough question I'd like to see answered... Ron Paul wants no military offense, but what about defending allies in some way, shape, or form?

Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all; entangling alliances with none. He believes in that idea so firmly that he titled his book compilation of foreign policy speeches on the House floor with that.

Doesn't matter if Congress declared war; if we weren't attacked, it would be aggression on our part. Selling weapons is bad. He opposes selling weapons to Israel and everyone else.

In my estimation, the correct course of action would be to allow individuals to join the Canadian army or send support their way if they wish.

Lishy
02-24-2012, 01:03 AM
In my estimation, the correct course of action would be to allow individuals to join the Canadian army or send support their way if they wish.
In other words, a Ron Paul administration would give troops the choice to volunteer in helping Canada under such a hypothetical scenario? But bear no responsibility as being federally-responsible?

Feeding the Abscess
02-24-2012, 01:14 AM
In other words, a Ron Paul administration would give troops the choice to volunteer in helping Canada under such a hypothetical scenario? But bear no responsibility as being federally-responsible?

If individuals decided to move to another country and fight under another country's banner without any directive from their home government, there's not much one can do to hold that federal entity responsible. Mind you, that would mean that if that person is captured by the warring nation, they're SOL.

Lishy
02-24-2012, 01:36 AM
So is there no military assistance Paul might be able to do?

Feeding the Abscess
02-24-2012, 02:19 AM
So is there no military assistance Paul might be able to do?

Not unless he wanted to violate the non-aggression/libertarian ethics of governance, no. We'd assuredly not allow any country to pass through our airspace, and since we pretty well surround Canada, we'd provide a fairly effective shield.

BamaAla
02-24-2012, 03:02 AM
He would have to...we have a defense treaty with Canada.

XNavyNuke
02-25-2012, 06:43 PM
Lishy, Canada can only be invaded from the sea (unless its the U.S.). A sustained invasion against an opposed landing can only work if the belligerent has complete control of the sea lanes. Given that such an action would cut off U.S. access to Alaska on the Pacific side and Europe on the Atlantic side, means that the President would have to order the Navy cede the control to the belligerent or the belligerent would have to clear the Navy to establish control. The latter would be an act of war.

Perhaps your analogy should use Mexico instead, since it would be possible for Guatemala or Belize to attempt a land invasion.

XNN

eduardo89
02-25-2012, 07:03 PM
Perhaps your analogy should use Mexico instead, since it would be possible for Guatemala or Belize to attempt a land invasion.



Hahahahaha that's a good one. Belize has 900 troops and a military budget of $1.2 million per year. Guatemala has a total of 12 tanks, all built in the 1950s. Guatemala doesn't even have a single fighter jet in their air force, Belize doesn't even have an air force.

eduardo89
02-25-2012, 07:04 PM
So is there no military assistance Paul might be able to do?

If Congress declares war on whoever invades Canada, then President Paul would fight the war.

The US should just annex Canada, though. Except for Quebec, those frogs can have their own country.