***SUPER BROCHURE PROJECT Idaho***

[Teamronin]

Here we go again!! On the DP!

[alucard13mmfmj]

lol. i think this will draw heat from various people on the forums :S.

[LibertyEagle]

There's not much we can do about it. :(

[Andrew Ryan]

Why do people hate the super brochures?

[bluesc]

My god. A state we can win, a state that the campaign just opened a new office in due to increased confidence, and they are back again.

Why didn't these people donate this spare money to the moneybomb that is going on right now?

[Xelaetaks]

Lol way to go. Let's give the super brochure producers money and lose hundreds of votes :x

[bluesc]

Why do people hate the super brochures?

Because it's terrible, a huge waste of money, and only serves one person - the guy profiting from it.

[Xelaetaks]

Why do people hate the super brochures?

They have a track record of hurting us. The people who run the project are biased. One of them I spoke to went so far as to say that Ron Paul surged in Iowa because of the Super Brochures, but people who were close to the campaign reported that they lost voters because of the brochures.

The brochures have not had any testing done on them, throw way too many issues on voters who may be more interested in single issues and they undermine mailings that the campaign sends out.

The brochures are simply just terrible if you're not already a Ron Paul supporter.

[Teamronin]

I deleted the original post... I just want to say, i'm sad the campaign asked for 5 million bucks, and it's only at 1.6 million.... I'm really sad over that fact.... You guys know what i'm talking about!! The campaign is 'Non-Profit"....Other projects are "For-Profit"....end of story...

[alucard13mmfmj]

We need brochures for Foreign Policy and for Social Security/Medicare.

That is probably what turns people away from RP because of the lack of understanding or misunderstanding of Ron's stance on those issues. Most people say they would vote for RP, but no.. because of his foreign policy. Or some people afraid that 1 trillion cut will include entitlements. These issues need to be clarified and stressed in the brochures.

[Teamronin]

They have a track record of hurting us. The people who run the project are biased. One of them I spoke to went so far as to say that Ron Paul surged in Iowa because of the Super Brochures, but people who were close to the campaign reported that they lost voters because of the brochures.

The brochures have not had any testing done on them, throw way too many issues on voters who may be more interested in single issues and they undermine mailings that the campaign sends out.

The brochures are simply just terrible if you're not already a Ron Paul supporter.

I promoted this project on here...I read all the "haters" comments...watched Iowa, and South Carolina fail after almost 100% coverage of SBP, and realisized, the 'Haters" were not haters, they were just telling the truth!!! You guys were right!!!

[Teamronin]

Why do people hate the super brochures?

In short, .55cents each ends up being junkmail, and they're pushed "FOR PROFIT" by RPP... Money ill-spent.. I still think they're great to pass out youself with a handshake for .07 cents... but, facts are facts, the states we spend 100's of theousands of dollars on mailing them to, we lost huge in!! South Carolina being the main one.. Sad to say, RPP is making a KILLING selling precinct mailings.... Precinct buys = PROFITS FOR RPP, bottom line!!!

[Teamronin]

My god. A state we can win, a state that the campaign just opened a new office in due to increased confidence, and they are back again.

Why didn't these people donate this spare money to the moneybomb that is going on right now?

BLUESC, I just wanta say, sorry bro.. I talked ish to you a couple months ago because you were against this project, and I was for it... You were right, I was wrong, and I'll give you the respect you deserve bro!!
Keep up the good fight!
TeamRonin

[ross11988]

Goodbye 1st place finish, hello 3rd place... again. Notice the states that we have done well in.

NH, Minnisota, Maine - NONE OF THEM HAD SB SENT
IA,SC,FL,NV - ALL STATES WHERE SB WERE SENT!

[alucard13mmfmj]

We all have good intentions.

Also, I don't think its wrong to make some profit off of the election, assuming its worthwhile. Have enough money for beer and cookies to live on.

[Xelaetaks]

I left a comment on the daily paul about the ills of thse brochures. I usually never go on daily paul though, I lost any respect I ever had from them once they started promoting these brochures everywhere.

So much fail. The sad thing is the guy who does the brochures work (I wont mention his name) doesn't even realize he is hurting Ron Paul's presedential campaign. That guy thinks it is a joke while he rakes in the money.

[bluesc]

We all have good intentions.

Also, I don't think its wrong to make some profit off of the election, assuming its worthwhile. Have enough money for beer and cookies to live on.

If calculations are correct he made enough to buy a house or two.

[bluesc]

I left a comment on the daily paul about the ills of thse brochures. I usually never go on daily paul though, I lost any respect I ever had from them once they started promoting these brochures everywhere.

So much fail. The sad thing is the guy who does the brochures work (I wont mention his name) doesn't even realize he is hurting Ron Paul's presedential campaign. That guy thinks it is a joke while he rakes in the money.

He knows that it's hurting Ron. So does Nystrom.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[rp08orbust]

:(

[Teamronin]

I left a comment on the daily paul about the ills of thse brochures. I usually never go on daily paul though, I lost any respect I ever had from them once they started promoting these brochures everywhere.

So much fail. The sad thing is the guy who does the brochures work (I wont mention his name) doesn't even realize he is hurting Ron Paul's presedential campaign. That guy thinks it is a joke while he rakes in the money.

I never thought I would say this, but I agree with you 100%... I fear $$$'s being the motivation behind this project and it's backers... RevolutionPAC wasn't able to buy them, because they'd cut out the profits from the shipping discount mailed by RPP themselves... Thats where I think the original fight came from... Ya know 200,000 X a .10 margin = $20,000.00 .... Just a ramdom figure, but X that times 50 states before Iowa happened, and you can see greed being a factor over effectivenss!!!

[alucard13mmfmj]

If calculations are correct he made enough to buy a house or two.

A LOT of beer and cookies. hehe.

Did they make more of these brochuers recently? If so... I don't know what to say =|. They should focus on Foreign Policy and Entitlments. Make new brochures on those subjects after they sell the ones they have. If they going to make a shit load of money, they might as well sell something that gets more votes than lose.

[bluesc]

A LOT of beer and cookies. hehe.

Did they make more of these brochuers recently? If so... I don't know what to say =|. They should focus on Foreign Policy and Entitlments. Make new brochures after they sell the ones they have.

I think he should get out of the business entirely.

Not only is he being paid to hurt Ron's chances -- it's Ron Paul supporters paying him to do it!

[mmadness]

http://www.dailypaul.com/214943/idaho-mailing-of-super-brochures
(http://www.dailypaul.com/214943/idaho-mailing-of-super-brochures)
Daily Paul Thread for all to downvote, plus upvote warning posts.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm just going to say this once, but if any of you have proof that these took votes away from Ron Paul, contact ronpaulproducts.

http://www.ronpaulproducts.com/contact.html

[LibertyEagle]

double post

[mmadness]

For the 342,438th time...

From Aaron Jones, experienced Ron Paul grassroots activist, creator of iRoots.org & involved with RevPac:
http://iroots.org/2012/01/13/whats-wrong-with-the-ron-paul-super-brochure/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_enZH54CmQ

[mmadness]

I'm just going to say this once, but if any of you have proof that these took votes away from Ron Paul, contact ronpaulproducts.

http://www.ronpaulproducts.com/contact.html

Funny because you posted it twice! ;)

Think of it this way. If I was trying to meet a girl, would I go up to her and say, “You should go out with me because I’m smart, I have blue eyes, I like sex, I like to read books on economics, I like red wine, cheese, and I’m a libertarian?”

Of course not… but why not? It’s honest and tells her EVERYTHING about me, doesn't it? :)

So can I prove that if guys use that approach with girls, it doesn't work ALL THE TIME? No.

But I'm not going to waste my time contacting someone who believes in that approach, other than to tell them to CEASE AND DESIST when they are selling that IT WORKS or it's some MAGICAL PRODUCT, when it does the opposite.

[Teamronin]

I'm just going to say this once, but if any of you have proof that these took votes away from Ron Paul, contact ronpaulproducts.

http://www.ronpaulproducts.com/contact.html

A "FOR PROFIT" Company isn't going to tell you their product isn't working! That's like telling Chevron or Mobile to support your brand new electric car!! Let's get one thing stright (and me and my meet-up group has spent $100's if not 2k with RPP) RPP is a FOR PROFIT COMPANY!!! RonPaul2012.com and RevolutionPAC isn't laughing all the way to the bank when we give them money!!

[LibertyEagle]

Funny because you posted it twice! ;)

Nah, that was the server, I guess. It went down at the same time I was posting.

[Teamronin]

Goodbye 1st place finish, hello 3rd place... again. Notice the states that we have done well in.

NH, Minnisota, Maine - NONE OF THEM HAD SB SENT
IA,SC,FL,NV - ALL STATES WHERE SB WERE SENT!

Sad to say, but these are the facts!!
RPP="For Profit" and that's MAJOR profit, not just a few bucks for the extra effort/time!!

[LibertyEagle]

A "FOR PROFIT" Company isn't going to tell you their product isn't working! That's like telling Chevron or Mobile to support your brand new electric car!! Let's get one thing stright (and me and my meet-up group has spent $100's if not 2k with RPP) RPP is a FOR PROFIT COMPANY!!! RonPaul2012.com and RevolutionPAC isn't laughing all the way to the bank when we give them money!!

Who said THEY were going to tell you anything? If you haven't tried showing them the PROOF that the brochure is working against us, then you don't really have a leg to stand on. And as far as RevolutionPAC is concerned, you probably should pull your other foot out of your mouth right now. Because, no one there is making money, to my knowledge, with the exception of a small fee paid to the person doing the accounting.

[LibertyEagle]

But I'm not going to waste my time contacting someone who believes in that approach, other than to tell them to CEASE AND DESIST when they are selling that IT WORKS or it's some MAGICAL PRODUCT, when it does the opposite.[/B]

Okey dokey. So you don't have any proof to show them. Gotcha.

[mmadness]

Okey dokey. So you don't have any proof to show them. Gotcha.

Way to address my point in the post and instead chop out this little bit here.

So have you any proof to show that they do work? Gotcha.

We have actual results from states where brochures were mailed and not mailed.

[LibertyEagle]

Look guys, I don't think these brochures are useful for mailing out, either. But, before you get all high and mighty claiming that the guys at ronpaulproducts are just in this for the money and don't give a rat's ass whether they hurt Ron Paul or not, you should at least try to gather the evidence you think you have and contact them with it. Because if you do not, and just bloviate here, on these forums, you are really just full of hot air.

Think about how you would want to be treated and act accordingly.

[mmadness]

Okey dokey. So you don't have any proof to show them. Gotcha.

I can play this game too.

Okey dokey. So you support companies ripping off Ron Paul supporters and hurting potential Paul supporters and having funds going to these which instead could be going to Dr. Paul's campaign, who needs funds badly.

[LibertyEagle]

Way to address my point in the post and instead chop out this little bit here.

So have you any proof to show that they do work? Gotcha.

We have actual results from states where brochures were mailed and not mailed.

It's not up to me to prove anything. It is you who is making all the claims. Either back them up with something more than innuendo and present them to the guys at ronpaulproducts, or you're not doing much of anything here besides gutter crawling.

[LibertyEagle]

I can play this game too.

Okey dokey. So you support companies ripping off Ron Paul supporters and hurting potential Paul supporters and having funds going to these which instead could be going to Dr. Paul's campaign, who needs funds badly.

Once again, lay out your proof and present it to ronpaulproducts. Do you have any proof?

By the way, they aren't "ripping off" anyone. They are buying a product and a service that they chose to buy. No one made them.

[mmadness]

It's not up to me to prove anything. It is you who is making all the claims.

So let's say we didn't have any proof they don't work (which we do).

Then the people who can't prove that they don't work are being "high and mighty" but you saying you don't have to prove anything is not?

Isn't that being... hypocritical?

So by your logic, I could put out a line of poisonous toys, advertise them as TOTALLY AWESOME AND MAGICAL, and then when you try to convince others that they are poisonous based on actual evidence and data, then someone can just tell you that you're being "high and mighty" and you should contact the company and not other people, because you can't prove that they aren't actually poisonous?

Either you have your head in the sand or you are in the tank for Ron Paul Products. Prove that you're not.

[Feeding the Abscess]

So let's say we didn't have any proof they don't work (which we do).

Then the people who can't prove that they don't work are being "high and mighty" but you saying you don't have to prove anything is not?

Isn't that being... hypocritical?

You're just being needlessly argumentative. If there's proof the brochures drove voters away, present the proof to RPP and the movement at large, it'll slow donations to the program.

[LibertyEagle]

So let's say we didn't have any proof they don't work (which we do).

Then the people who can't prove that they don't work are being "high and mighty" but you saying you don't have to prove anything is not?

Isn't that being... hypocritical?

Uh, that is not even logical.

You are claiming that the brochures are hurting Ron Paul's chances of becoming President. Therefore the burden is on you to prove your claim. It's really very simple.

[neverseen]

Just curious... Have any of you tried to hand mail one of these? If you buy one for $.07 and take it to the post office you do realize the total far exceeds the $.55 that they are charging... right?

Are you all sure you are not confusing the words profit and revenue? They have to pay money to the print house, the mailing house, the website, etc... profits is revenue minus all those expenses. And when you start talking about bulk and discounts for mass orders... again, take one to the post office and see for your self how much it costs to put the sticker tabs on it and how much to mail it (hint it's not a 1 stamp mailer)

[mmadness]

Uh, that is not even logical.

Well, you're the one saying people against the brochures were all "high and mighty" and to only report problems to the originating source without warning people and that people for the brochures didn't have to prove anything. Who is being "high and mighty?"


You are claiming that the brochures are hurting Ron Paul's chances of becoming President. Therefore the burden is on you to prove your claim. It's really very simple.


Goodbye 1st place finish, hello 3rd place... again. Notice the states that we have done well in.

NH, Minnisota, Maine - NONE OF THEM HAD SB SENT
IA,SC,FL,NV - ALL STATES WHERE SB WERE SENT!

From Aaron Jones, experienced Ron Paul grassroots activist, creator of iRoots.org & involved with RevPac:
http://iroots.org/2012/01/13/whats-wrong-with-the-ron-paul-super-brochure/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_enZH54CmQ

I rest my case. If this doesn't convince you then you must be in the tank for Ron Paul Products.

[neverseen]

Not to mention... the people buying these (the $15,000 donation) are more than likely tapped out. Once you hit $2,500 your options are limited. This is one option. REVPAC has proven they are not good at raising funds. Liberty PAC doesn't seem to advertise themselves much and feels more like a boys club.

The SBP is heavily marketed and to some people may be the only option to help above and beyond their maxed donations. RevPAC and Liberty PAC really don't give you much for the money you are directly spending unless you are spending TONS. This is the perfect option for a well off, but not rich middle class person.

[mmadness]

You're just being needlessly argumentative. If there's proof the brochures drove voters away, present the proof to RPP and the movement at large, it'll slow donations to the program.

Good point. I've done what I can here and at DP. I'm done with this thread.

[bluesc]

Not to mention... the people buying these (the $15,000 donation) are more than likely tapped out. Once you hit $2,500 your options are limited. This is one option. REVPAC has proven they are not good at raising funds. Liberty PAC doesn't seem to advertise themselves much and feels more like a boys club.

The SBP is heavily marketed and to some people may be the only option to help above and beyond their maxed donations. RevPAC and Liberty PAC really don't give you much for the money you are directly spending unless you are spending TONS. This is the perfect option for a well off, but not rich middle class person.

Except that you are essentially donating $15,000 to Santorum or Romney..

[LibertyEagle]

I rest my case. If this doesn't convince you then you must be in the tank for Ron Paul Products.

:rolleyes:

You don't need to convince me. I was the first one on these forums who said I didn't think these brochures were a good idea for mailing and that was months ago.

You are being needlessly obtuse. Gather your proof and present it to the guys at ronpaulproducts. See if it makes a difference, rather than just assuming they don't care at all. It's the way you would want to be treated, isn't it?

[Teamronin]

Not to mention... the people buying these (the $15,000 donation) are more than likely tapped out. Once you hit $2,500 your options are limited. This is one option. REVPAC has proven they are not good at raising funds. Liberty PAC doesn't seem to advertise themselves much and feels more like a boys club.

The SBP is heavily marketed and to some people may be the only option to help above and beyond their maxed donations. RevPAC and Liberty PAC really don't give you much for the money you are directly spending unless you are spending TONS. This is the perfect option for a well off, but not rich middle class person.

Yeah RevolutionPAC sucks!!???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4
Let's not show ads like this on t.v.
BTW RevolutionPAC is having a moneybomb Feb 25th to aire ads like the one above. Those of us willing to give extra money outside of the campaign itself, should man up and support the televisions ads like I posted above...

[mmadness]

:rolleyes:

You don't need to convince me. I was the first one on these forums who said I didn't think these brochures were a good idea for mailing and that was months ago.

What?! :eek: If you knew these brochures hurt Dr. Paul, then why would you be against others warning about them? When you knew that they were marketed as a great product and working, when they were the opposite? That to me is even worse than someone who does not know the true nature of this product. Do you just not care about Dr. Paul's chances?


You are being needlessly obtuse. Gather your proof and present it to the guys at ronpaulproducts. See if it makes a difference, rather than just assuming they don't care at all. It's the way you would want to be treated, isn't it?

People have already presented feedback multiple times since Iowa. You want to see one of Curt's rude responses right here on RPF?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346841-Superbrochures-in-South-Carolina&p=3975372#post3975372

Here's some more:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346841-Superbrochures-in-South-Carolina&p=3974355#post3974355
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?358985-Super-Brochure-Mailing-and-Nevada-Caucus-Goer&p=4149379#post4149379

The guy will not listen to feedback, this was weeks ago, and it's obvious by now that he will NOT not stop marketing these brochures as being "helpful" to Dr. Paul. Why? There's money to be made I guess. And some people are blind, some people can see it and will do nothing, and some people will do something and help people see the truth.

[Teamronin]

Just curious... Have any of you tried to hand mail one of these? If you buy one for $.07 and take it to the post office you do realize the total far exceeds the $.55 that they are charging... right?

Are you all sure you are not confusing the words profit and revenue? They have to pay money to the print house, the mailing house, the website, etc... profits is revenue minus all those expenses. And when you start talking about bulk and discounts for mass orders... again, take one to the post office and see for your self how much it costs to put the sticker tabs on it and how much to mail it (hint it's not a 1 stamp mailer)

Bulk mail discounts!! The cost of the broschure itself is cheap, and I actually love passing them out in person with a handshake. The discount given for mailing them is where the profits are made, and made huge...Not off each one, no, but when your mailing a million of them even .05 cents each is $50,000K pure profit.. But it's not even that, it's the Fact that campaign has looked down on them in the past. RPP is also double mailing them over the campaigns phone banking system. Sending them out to the same people the campain sends slim jims to. The stats show now that the states we've (Super Broschure supporters) covered the most (IA,SC,NV,FL) have failed the most, in vote results.. The 2 states that were never touched by the SB were New Hampshire, and Maine, and we did the best so far there...

So when the majority of Ron Paul supporters look back at the SB-MAILING- project, having effectively failed, we wonder why the project is still being pushed, and can find no other good reason why the company keeps it going than a profit motive for those at the top involved... Especially when the success of the MAILING project hasn't been good at all in vote totals, and Ron Paul is -3.4 Million dollars short in his money bomb this week...

Bottom line, facts are facts, the MAILING of the super broschures has not resulted us any wins in the campaign, the states they were mailed to got the worst vote results at the cost of $100.000's. At least half of the Ron Paul supporters hate this project, and the official non-profit campaign is hurting for cash. I'm voting with my dollars, and giving my cash directly to Ron Paul and/or his trusted friends at RevolutionPAC who have put out some of the BEST Ron Paul t.v. ads in the campaign!!!

[Dublin4Paul]

What?! :eek: If you knew these brochures hurt Dr. Paul, then why would you be against others warning about them? When you knew that they were marketed as a great product and working, when they were the opposite? That to me is even worse than someone who does not know the true nature of this product. Do you just not care about Dr. Paul's chances?



People have already presented feedback multiple times since Iowa. You want to see one of Curt's rude responses right here on RPF?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346841-Superbrochures-in-South-Carolina&p=3975372#post3975372

Here's some more:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346841-Superbrochures-in-South-Carolina&p=3974355#post3974355
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?358985-Super-Brochure-Mailing-and-Nevada-Caucus-Goer&p=4149379#post4149379

The guy will not listen to feedback, this was weeks ago, and it's obvious by now that he will NOT not stop marketing these brochures as being "helpful" to Dr. Paul. Why? There's money to be made I guess. And some people are blind, some people can see it and will do nothing, and some people will do something and help people see the truth.

Yeah, sadly, it seems hopeless to convince these people otherwise. Cold-hard evidence be damned, they want to feel important and special even if it may cost Ron votes. Pretty upsetting.

[Barrex]

I am sad seeing Ron Paul supporters divided and fighting each other. On almost every site there are people being condescending to other sites and their members.
Brochures are bad; Aaron Jones is against brochures; Aaron Jones is not activist he is payed by RevPac; RevPac is not that good;People on dailypaul are blind; RPF people are trolls who are whining.....

FFS STOP IT. All of you. Yes we all have our own opinions but we need to stop insulting and start working together. Put all that stupid things behind and offer "pipe of peace" to all. Forget past and turn a new page. Sit down and talk things out and start working together and coordinating with each others.


Really disappointing.

[Dublin4Paul]

I am sad seeing Ron Paul supporters divided and fighting each other. On almost every site there are people being condescending to other sites and their members.
Brochures are bad; Aaron Jones is against brochures; Aaron Jones is not activist he is payed by RevPac; RevPac is not that good;People on dailypaul are blind; RPF people are trolls who are whining.....

FFS STOP IT. All of you. Yes we all have our own opinions but we need to stop insulting and start working together. Put all that stupid things behind and offer "pipe of peace" to all. Forget past and turn a new page. Sit down and talk things out and start working together and coordinating with each others.


Really disappointing.

This is all well and good to say, but when the people in charge of this will not listen, and ignore clear facts of the case being presented to them, it creates quite a dilemma.

[Bruno]

I don't know why proof is needed when the campaign has asked to not use them.

[Ronulus]

The proof is in the pudding. We ended up gaining what, like 80 votes in NV from 08's numbers? Those brochures really won those people's hearts and minds over. It's also got a terrible design and does not really do a good job at convincing people of why they need to vote or why they can trust or be secure with RP as president. It's like it was made by some rookie with Microsoft publisher and when constructive criticism and feedback of things to change/do differently it was all ignored. Curt Schultz it's single handily killing this campaign. The brochures in general are not a bad idea, however they need to be changed if he wants them to be worth anything, and the fact he won't change them just proves everyone in this threads point.

[Barrex]

This is all well and good to say, but when the people in charge of this will not listen, and ignore clear facts of the case being presented to them, it creates quite a dilemma.

Coalitions.
There is no conversation. Both sides are sticking to their "ideas". I never saw either side trying to stop this "circle of stupidity" (sorry but by dividing Paul supporters we harm Ron). Things are not that great. Ron has 0 won states. We recently lost Maine. Failed to get 250 more votes than Mitt. Moneybomb failed to reach 5 mil. mark then failed 3 mil mark and now is failing to reach 2 mil. mark etc. On top of that I am seeing increased hostilities among supporters....
I know someone screwed. I know mistakes were made. I know that there is great deal of controversy with a lot of projects(not just super brochures) but if people dont swallow their pride and make contact and try to work on their disagreements and differences this this campaign is screwed. We cant do much about MSM ignoring Ron or republican party is treating Ron like he is crazy. We should/need/must work on things we can change. Why not organize online video conference (just thought of that..someone will have better idea)? why not at least try? There must be a way!!! If we cant get along with each others then we dont stand a chance.
Grassroots, web pages, blogs, forums, facebook groups, meet-up groups, everyone and everything is needed.


I know many people dont want to hear this but that is how I feel.

I am sorry.

[MelissaWV]

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/attachments/general-sportbikes/198751d1270584007-tall-rider-looking-first-sport-bike-not..shit.again.jpg

[Feelgood]

I deleted the original post... I just want to say, i'm sad the campaign asked for 5 million bucks, and it's only at 1.6 million.... I'm really sad over that fact.... You guys know what i'm talking about!! The campaign is 'Non-Profit"....Other projects are "For-Profit"....end of story...

See? And here I was impressed it even broke 1 million. I guess that is the difference between those that are in touch with reality, and so many that want more then is possible. I consider this moneybomb, for what it is worth, a success. Considering there is no wind behind the sails of this campaign, and the boat is just coasting along via the local current. What kills me is all the fluff. You see thousands of people turn up to rally after rally for Ron, yet nothing turns into anything tangible as a result. No state wins, no money, no bump, no headlines, nothing.

People on these forums like to refer to the realists as debbie downers etc, but the reality is, in the real sense of a win, this campaign is running on fumes. Its kind of the chicken and the egg. We need a win to get the headlines and the money, and we need money to get a win. So there you have it.

Now while I have no problems with anyone making a profit from things they do, I honestly do not believe these guys are making so much money from this they are going to be able to retire or something. Not real sure of the overall affect of the brochures, regardless of what those in the campaign claim. Honestly, there is no REAL barometer for measuring the good or bad of the brochures. With that said, I personally only donate what I can, when I can to Ron Paul. I do not wait for moneybombs, I just donate. I try to do $20- $50 a week, every week because it is what I can afford.

[D.A.S.]

Not much can be done about the Super Brochures one way or another. Liberty-minded folks don't wanna be told what to do. A lot of us have a strong opinion one way or the other, and we stick to it.

Read my post objectively, as I'm not endorsing the Brochure one way or the other.

Boots-on-the-ground activists, who have been going door to door and doing voter outreach out on the street, have been using them and report a lot of success. Here in NJ, the Liberty HQ (grassroots organization) also stocks Super Brochures for those who want them, and we have a few folks here in NJ with real close ties to the campaign, so if these Brochures were truly that harmful, I'm sure the word would have been out, and the Brochures would not have been used.

There was a campaign email circulating on the Brochure issue -- which I even posted in another thread on this -- and it's been explained that the "harmful" comment was directed at the early version of the Brochure, which contained a photo of soldier coffins on them. That has been changed. The other issue is a legal issue - the campaign warmed people again recently NOT to pass around Super Brochures AT CAMPAIGN EVENTS, for legal reasons.

I think the biggest concern with using the Brochure is getting soft support for Ron, which is necessary -- identification of key issues to a voter (something phone from home does) and then marketing Ron Paul to them on that/those issue(s). Super Brochure hits people with a full slate of Ron's stances on things (a lot of which he can't even accomplish as President), and that CAN overwhelm some people who are not die-hard fans of liberty and limited government but might otherwise agree on Ron on some other issues enough to vote for him.

Does the Super Brochure really damage us? I'm not sure there's conclusive evidence on that. Does it help us? I'm not sure there's conclusive evidence on that either. At least not on a grand scale.

It would be preferable that everyone was using strictly campaign materials, but I think some people have concerns that campaign materials don't address Ron on the issues adequately enough. I'd definitely prefer the money for Super Brochures flowed to the campaign rather than to Ron Paul Products, but then again, besides the legal issues, you can't prohibit folks from doing something they strongly believe in.

[PaulConventionWV]

Way to address my point in the post and instead chop out this little bit here.

So have you any proof to show that they do work? Gotcha.

We have actual results from states where brochures were mailed and not mailed.

I just wanted to say, the use of "Gotcha." in the context it was in is pretty awkward. You don't follow a question with a "Gotcha" because there is nothing to get. Sorry for being a stickler.

[Lightweis]

Schultz is single handily killing this campaign. thanks tool

[ZakCarter]

Want to knock a competitor out of business? Come up with something better at a cheaper price.

I suggest Veterans For Ron Paul, Gun Owners For Ron Paul, and Christians For Ron Paul radio ads to be run on conservative talk radio in the states yet to vote - talk radio listeners tend to vote in much higher percentages than your average TV viewers...a very big added bonus would be when you start paying for advertising, it becomes much easier to get your favorite guest speakers on the shows the ads are running on, so not only do you get the ad, but you get to alter the content that people are tuning in for - think Colonel Macgregor, a veteran for Ron Paul, might sway a few who are on the fence or concerned about Ron Paul's foreign policy?

I also think Blue Republican ads run in open voting states on progressive/independent shows would be effective - and money much better spent than on "super" brochures.

The Daily Paul just might take down the brochure at the top of the page and replace it with a microphone...

Your thoughts?

[ironj221]

My biggest problem with this is that DP took down the campaign donation story to put up the super brochures.

-rep DP

[bluesc]

My biggest problem with this is that DP took down the campaign donation story to put up the super brochures.

-rep DP

One brings profits, the other doesn't.

[VictorB]

If the campaign feels strongly against these brochures, then they need to put out an official statement against them. That is the only way that they will be stopped.

Someone find out the truth from Doug Wead.

[bluesc]

If the campaign feels strongly against these brochures, then they need to put out an official statement against them. That is the only way that they will be stopped.

Someone find out the truth from Doug Wead.

It's probably illegal to do that. We have heard that the campaign is strongly against the brochures though. Not that the Daily Paul cares when there is money to be made.

[LibertyEagle]

What?! :eek: If you knew these brochures hurt Dr. Paul, then why would you be against others warning about them? When you knew that they were marketed as a great product and working, when they were the opposite?
My, how you twist things.

When I posted about the brochures early on, I gave my OPINION that they were not the best tool to use for mass-mailing and gave the reasons why I believed that to be true.

My opinion is not the same thing as fact. What you don't seem to understand is that all you have is an opinion too. Which is probably why you have resulted to insults and personal attacks.

Then, there was the whole thing with the videos being brought up by the search terms in the brochure. I kept raising the issue here until enough people seemed to realize the problem, then I considered my work done. Because it is not my decision whether someone wants to support this effort with their own money, but I wanted them to understand what they were responsible for sending out. A couple of other forum members, who now understood the problem, took it upon themselves to make sure other more appropriate videos were kept bumped up to the top. This solved the immediate problem.

Then, I contacted ronpaulproducts and talked to the guys. They had not realized what the search terms in their brochure were now pulling up. We talked about a solution which was to move all the videos they wanted to point to, to a channel that they controlled. This would end any possibility that people would be viewing a different video than they had intended. They were very open to recommendations and very gracious.


That to me is even worse than someone who does not know the true nature of this product.
Ha ha. You're pretty funny, dude.


Do you just not care about Dr. Paul's chances?
That's right. You've found me out. I don't care about Dr. Paul at all.

:rolleyes:


The guy will not listen to feedback, this was weeks ago, and it's obvious by now that he will NOT not stop marketing these brochures as being "helpful" to Dr. Paul. Why? There's money to be made I guess. And some people are blind, some people can see it and will do nothing, and some people will do something and help people see the truth.
People do not respond well to being attacked.

I have taken the time to talk to him and his colleague on the phone. So, I know for a fact that they will listen and incorporate feedback. No, they may not stop selling the brochures. But, unless you gather all of your supposed proof and approach them, we will never know. But, you seem to prefer just libeling them on an internet forum. To each his own, I suppose.

Bloviate away, dude.

[bobburn]

Goddamn them for diverting funds from things that actually have an impact.

[bluesc]

Goddamn them for diverting funds from things that actually have an impact to their bank accounts.

FTFY

[bobburn]

These people only care about profiting from Paul's campaign through the brochures. They have hurt us far more than they've helped.

[LibertyEagle]

Want to knock a competitor out of business? Come up with something better at a cheaper price.

I suggest Veterans For Ron Paul, Gun Owners For Ron Paul, and Christians For Ron Paul radio ads to be run on conservative talk radio in the states yet to vote - talk radio listeners tend to vote in much higher percentages than your average TV viewers...a very big added bonus would be when you start paying for advertising, it becomes much easier to get your favorite guest speakers on the shows the ads are running on, so not only do you get the ad, but you get to alter the content that people are tuning in for - think Colonel Macgregor, a veteran for Ron Paul, might sway a few who are on the fence or concerned about Ron Paul's foreign policy?

I also think Blue Republican ads run in open voting states on progressive/independent shows would be effective - and money much better spent than on "super" brochures.

The Daily Paul just might take down the brochure at the top of the page and replace it with a microphone...

Your thoughts?

Well, it's my opinion that direct mail is best left to the campaign. Because through Phone-from-Home they can identify the key issues that each voter has and target them with those specific campaign materials.

[LibertyEagle]

It's probably illegal to do that. We have heard that the campaign is strongly against the brochures though. Not that the Daily Paul cares when there is money to be made.

I'm not sure we know that. It may be the case, but I'm not totally sure. It may have been the early brochures that had the coffins on them. Those may be what brought about the negative comment.

Regardless, basic marketing is enough to tell us that the shotgun approach to campaign materials is not the best way to win over most voters. Especially, on a blind mail-out.

[Tobias2dope]

This is just sad.

[happyphilter]

Must of spent all that money they made from last time.

[bluesc]

I'm not sure we know that. It may be the case, but I'm not totally sure. It may have been the early brochures that had the coffins on them. Those may be what brought about the negative comment.

Regardless, basic marketing is enough to tell us that the shotgun approach to campaign materials is not the best way to win over most voters. Especially, on a blind mail-out.

I'm sure they oppose the concept too. Any form of marketing training will teach them that the superbrochures are failing in every department.

Ron should slap some sense into Nystrom like he used to.

[Lucille]

My god. A state we can win, a state that the campaign just opened a new office in due to increased confidence, and they are back again.

Why didn't these people donate this spare money to the moneybomb that is going on right now?

Either the SB shills are working for another candidate's campaign, or they're just dumbasses.

[parocks]

Why do people hate the super brochures?

they suck.

[Lucille]

How can we stop these dumbasses from sending these out? They're losing RP votes, for crying out loud. Can't the campaign sue them for misrepresentation, or something? Anything! My God, these f'n things are a disaster yet they keep being sent out and no one is doing anything to stop them.

[opinionatedfool]

Please spend the money on RevPAC or something. There are so many people who think the super brochures are crap it might be good to listen to them.

[Lightweis]

I'm going to give this thread one star.. hold on one second!

[sailingaway]

there were no super brochures in Maine. There were no superbrochures that I am aware of in Minnesota.

I think we should leave direct mail to the campaign.

That is not as a mod, that is my personal opinion.

I am very impressed with the business organization and the delivery; and if it just said something unobjectionable like he would balance the budget in three years without cutting social security, medicare or veteran's benefits, and details his cuts to do so, while Romney only cuts INCREASES in spending and still cuts medicare.... I'd be fine with it. But I just saw another interview yesterday where someone rejected him because 'getting rid of the IRS is crazy' and it does not explain that is a philosophical goal to work towards, not something he would do walking in the door. Walking in the door he has a very specific plan and that is what needs to be out there, imho.

[sailingaway]

I'm sure they oppose the concept too. Any form of marketing training will teach them that the superbrochures are failing in every department.

Ron should slap some sense into Nystrom like he used to.

I'm sure Michael is doing what he thinks is best, the idea that he would hurt the campaign for a profit motive is untenable.

However, the campaign can't 'coordinate' on something like this, which is why they only forbade them to volunteers working directly for them, presumably.

[LibertyEagle]

there were no super brochures in Maine. There were no superbrochures that I am aware of in Minnesota.

I think we should leave direct mail to the campaign.

That is not as a mod, that is my personal opinion.

I am very impressed with the business organization and the delivery; and if it just said something unobjectionable like he would balance the budget in three years without cutting social security, medicare or veteran's benefits, and details his cuts to do so, while Romney only cuts INCREASES in spending and still cuts medicare.... I'd be fine with it. But I just saw another interview yesterday where someone rejected him because 'getting rid of the IRS is crazy' and it does not explain that is a philosophical goal to work towards, not something he would do walking in the door. Walking in the door he has a very specific plan and that is what needs to be out there, imho.

One of the problems is that Ron Paul needs to present that viewpoint too.

[sailingaway]

One of the problems is that Ron Paul needs to present that viewpoint too.

I am aware of that, but it doesn't help to bolster the mistake.

[LibertyEagle]

I am aware of that, but it doesn't help to bolster the mistake.

True.

I have posted several times before that if anyone here has specific text that they think will work better in the brochure, ANYWHERE in the brochure, that Curt and Eric have asked that you tell them.

Again, I still do not think these brochures should be mass-mailed; especially to Republicans. But, as long as they are, if anyone takes exception with certain words or sentences in the brochure, come up with something better and at least tell them. They seem to be very open to such things.

[justatrey]

No comment on the effectiveness of these, because I don't pretend to know. But when the campaign is practically begging us for money after saying they needed 5 million out of this money bomb and now trying desperately to get to just 2, I think we need to be smart about what we do with our money right now.

[opinionatedfool]

True.

I have posted several times before that if anyone here has specific text that they think will work better in the brochure, ANYWHERE in the brochure, that Curt and Eric have asked that you tell them.

Again, I still do not think these brochures should be mass-mailed; especially to Republicans. But, as long as they are, if anyone takes exception with certain words or sentences in the brochure, come up with something better and at least tell them. They seem to be very open to such things.

I gave them several suggestions for the SC one and I didn't see any of it implemented. But what do I know? I just have a strong background in marketing.

[sailingaway]

True.

I have posted several times before that if anyone here has specific text that they think will work better in the brochure, ANYWHERE in the brochure, that Curt and Eric have asked that you tell them.

Again, I still do not think these brochures should be mass-mailed; especially to Republicans. But, as long as they are, if anyone takes exception with certain words or sentences in the brochure, come up with something better and at least tell them. They seem to be very open to such things.

I think they should delete ending the income tax and IRS, and delete the gold standard, and delete ending the Federal Reserve. those are areas where thinking people know it cannot be done immediately, and where Ron has programs leading to it that are too complex to be read by those for whom that one issue is not their top issue. And if these issues WERE their top issues, they would already be Ron Paul supporters because the media happily spreads this information, along with 'drug legalization' with a heavy hand, to make him look nuts. How do I pass this on to Curt and Eric?

[po14015]

All Poll Numbers from RealClearPolitics.com where they have all major polls:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/ia/iowa_republican_presidential_primary-1588.html

IA:

Dec 1 (no brochures): 11%
Dec 14 (half of the mailings received): 16.4%
Dec 24 (the rest of the mailings received): 23.8%

After Christmas, two things hurt Ron Paul in IA. He was attacked on marriage and on the newsletters. The marriage issue was heavily funded. From people I have spoken with, it was very effective.

SC:

Jan 1 (a few mailings): 8.6%
Jan 15 (all the mailings): 15%

South Carolina had little campaign activity.

South Carolina is the State that had the largest increase in support with a whooping 6 times the increase from 2008.
(16,155 votes in 2008 vs 78,362 votes in 2012)

http://www.capitalfreepress.com/images/RP08v12Bar.png

ME:

Washington County was mailed the Super Brochure:
Paul 163 votes
Romney 80 votes
Rick Santorum 57 votes
Newt Gingrich 4 votes

In Liberty,

Curt

[sailingaway]

All Poll Numbers from RealClearPolitics.com where they have all major polls:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/ia/iowa_republican_presidential_primary-1588.html

IA:

Dec 1 (no brochures): 11%
Dec 14 (half of the mailings received): 16.4%
Dec 24 (the rest of the mailings received): 23.8%

After Christmas, two things hurt Ron Paul in IA. He was attacked on marriage and on the newsletters. The marriage issue was heavily funded. From people I have spoken with, it was very effective.

SC:

Jan 1 (a few mailings): 8.6%
Jan 15 (all the mailings): 15%

South Carolina had little campaign activity.

South Carolina is the State that had the largest increase in support with a whooping 6 times the increase from 2008.
(16,155 votes in 2008 vs 78,362 votes in 2012)

http://www.capitalfreepress.com/images/RP08v12Bar.png

ME:

Washington County was mailed the Super Brochure:
Paul 163 votes
Romney 80 votes
Rick Santorum 57 votes
Newt Gingrich 4 votes

In Liberty,

Curt

A LOT of other things were happening in those same time periods, for example, millions in TV ads. On the ground information by canvasers indicated there were real problems with 'ordinary gop' of the 'soft support' variety over these. I don't know if it is a net positive or negative but I do know the issues I mention in my post above are OFTEN cited as reasons to not even consider Ron.

Also note the popularity in Maine, where there weren't any, prior to Washington County. They thought they had more support in Washington county, you can't say if the superbrochures grew that or stopped it. I'm not trying to be insulting, I really see problems with some of the items in the brochure, and have OFTEN had them raised to me as 'crazy' by people I was trying to convert. It is one thing to try to educate a single person you have a discussion with, but right before an election you can't count on deep education, and the brochures don

All results are correlative, not causative unless you can pin opinion to what caused it. The campaign did do massive amounts of phone poling asking top issues, etc.

[walt]

I think history will eventually find it more than a bit ironic that a group of people want to micromanage citizens who what to do something to communicate with actual potential voters.

Freedom? Liberty? More like hypocrisy.

[ZakCarter]

The free market works - Want to knock a competitor out of business? Come up with something better at a cheaper price.

Just waving protest signs doesn't accomplish much.

Come up with something better!

[MelissaWV]

The free market works - Want to knock a competitor out of business? Come up with something better at a cheaper price.

Just waving protest signs doesn't accomplish much.

Except you are looking at it in a vacuum.

The "product" here is Ron Paul. The brochure is being tossed at people via direct mail. A competing brochure, also tossed at people via direct mail, and another, and some phone from home, and maybe some bad personal contact with RP supporters... and you really WILL see people favoring the competing products (Romney & Santorum & Obama).

[po14015]

sailingaway:

I understand your statement and respect what you are saying. Showing the poll numbers, mailings windows, and actual votes is better than insults and attacks. It is hard to know exactly why these numbers moved, and it is the reason I do not use these numbers to promote "Look what the Super Brochure did". The grassroots and the Official Campaign do many things that contribute to the expansion of the Liberty movement.

I encourage you like everyone else that I am only a phone call away:

941-962-7660

In Liberty,

Curt

[Lucille]

I think history will eventually find it more than a bit ironic that a group of people want to micromanage citizens who what to do something to communicate with actual potential voters.

Freedom? Liberty? More like hypocrisy.

It's not ironic or hypocritical at all. How many times does it have to be repeated that those things are harming the campaign? If the SB dumbasses want to communicate with actual potential voters, they can use the materials the campaign provides, phone from home, knock on doors, and/or GOTV on election days.

Or they could keep driving voters away with unprofessional brochures to make a quick buck, and pretend like they know better than the campaign, which they're obviously gonna do.

[ZakCarter]

I'm thinking more along the line of targeted grassroots radio ads..

[opinionatedfool]

I think they should delete ending the income tax and IRS, and delete the gold standard, and delete ending the Federal Reserve. those are areas where thinking people know it cannot be done immediately, and where Ron has programs leading to it that are too complex to be read by those for whom that one issue is not their top issue. And if these issues WERE their top issues, they would already be Ron Paul supporters because the media happily spreads this information, along with 'drug legalization' with a heavy hand, to make him look nuts. How do I pass this on to Curt and Eric?

If they are going to do anything it should a simple postcard telling people what day the election is and where to find their election location. Www.ronpaul2012.com can be used as a more info link. The ron paul contents could be a simple graphic that shows him compared to others on important issues.you could include a qr code for the endorse liberty video and its done!

[bluesc]

ME:

Washington County was mailed the Super Brochure:
Paul 163 votes
Romney 80 votes
Rick Santorum 57 votes
Newt Gingrich 4 votes

In Liberty,

Curt

DO NOT take credit for Washington county. That took an extensive GOTV effort on the part of the campaign. They organized like crazy and a lot of people put in a lot of work. It's pretty insulting for you to make the claim that the superbrochures that did nothing to help elsewhere suddenly helped take the win in that county.

[opinionatedfool]

ME:

Washington County was mailed the Super Brochure:
Paul 163 votes
Romney 80 votes
Rick Santorum 57 votes
Newt Gingrich 4 votes

In Liberty,

Curt

Turnout did seem rather low considering the attention the county was getting from people all around the country. Something to think about.

[WD-NY]

True.

I have posted several times before that if anyone here has specific text that they think will work better in the brochure, ANYWHERE in the brochure, that Curt and Eric have asked that you tell them.

Again, I still do not think these brochures should be mass-mailed; especially to Republicans. But, as long as they are, if anyone takes exception with certain words or sentences in the brochure, come up with something better and at least tell them. They seem to be very open to such things.

I'm sorry but this is bullshit. The super brochure scamsters haven't changed/updated/improved ANYTHING from what I can tell. If they have, I challenge you (or anyone else) to list the changes here.

[GraspingForPeace]

A LOT of other things were happening in those same time periods, for example, millions in TV ads. On the ground information by canvasers indicated there were real problems with 'ordinary gop' of the 'soft support' variety over these. I don't know if it is a net positive or negative but I do know the issues I mention in my post above are OFTEN cited as reasons to not even consider Ron.

Also note the popularity in Maine, where there weren't any, prior to Washington County. They thought they had more support in Washington county, you can't say if the superbrochures grew that or stopped it. I'm not trying to be insulting, I really see problems with some of the items in the brochure, and have OFTEN had them raised to me as 'crazy' by people I was trying to convert. It is one thing to try to educate a single person you have a discussion with, but right before an election you can't count on deep education, and the brochures don

All results are correlative, not causative unless you can pin opinion to what caused it. The campaign did do massive amounts of phone poling asking top issues, etc.

Thank you for addressing that.

[braane]

I wish RPP would stop this, I really do.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm sorry but this is bullshit. The super brochure scamsters haven't changed/updated/improved ANYTHING from what I can tell. If they have, I challenge you (or anyone else) to list the changes here.

You're mighty big there with name-calling, WD. Especially when you are incorrect.

I'm not going to list them all, but for one, they changed things like End the IRS to Phase out the IRS. They also added in a blurb about honoring the entitlement programs to seniors and veterans.

I haven't checked to see if it was finished, but a couple of months ago, they were moving the videos under their own account. This was for the purpose of making sure they had control of what videos they were suggesting to their readers.

http://www.ronpaulproducts.com/brochure2.html

[tom7126]

First off stop calling them "Super" you are not in Japan. Nor are they genuinely super, they are actually quite modest brochures.

Secondly nobody wants facts. Facts go in the garbage. People want DRAMA. AND PICTURES. Much like the internet.

USE THE BROCHURE MONEY TO ATTACK OTHER CANDIDATES.

I could run a much better direct mail campaign than this group.

[John F Kennedy III]

My god. A state we can win, a state that the campaign just opened a new office in due to increased confidence, and they are back again.

Why didn't these people donate this spare money to the moneybomb that is going on right now?

This. Apparently DP is some arm of the Establishment machine.

[low preference guy]

If voters think like the average Daily Pauler, the super brochures will definitely work.

Rev9

[Muwahid]

Lol a post on the dailypaul

Submitted by Zak Carter on Sun, 02/19/2012 - 13:24.
The free market works - Want to knock a competitor out of business? Come up with something better at a cheaper price.


they are treating it as a for-profit business, as their main priority. makes me kind of sick.

[Suzu]

Sad to say, but these are the facts!!
RPP="For Profit" and that's MAJOR profit, not just a few bucks for the extra effort/time!!

Assuming a three-cent profit per brochure - based on their figure of .07 being the actual cost of each one, plus 44 cents for a first-class stamp, and another penny for stickers to seal it, for a total cost of 52 cents each, and a price of 55 cents each to the customer - they would be taking in $3k per 100,000 sold. But we don't know how much work or overhead cost is involved for the vendor in selling 100k of the brochures, but let's assume half a cent per brochure to cover these unknowns, which would bring the income to $2500/100k sold.

Is this "major profit"? Well, I don't think it could be seen as a huge money-maker, but certainly worth doing IF the actual costs are as estimated. I think someone mentioned that more than a single 1st-class stamp is required to mail one of these brochures, but that cost could for all we know be offset by some sort of postage discount for volume mailings.

[IterTemporis]

Wouldn't brochures about electability be better? The campaign sends mailers out themselves, but they do not stress RP's electability. I don't think that grassroots should be sending out information covering the whole 9 yards, whilst the campaign also sends out mailers targeting the voter's main issue. I think Grassroots should do what the campaign is not doing, such as stressing electability.

[theeaglehaslanded]

It depends on what your goal is, if it is to increase the number of votes RP receives then this is counter productive at worst, very inefficient at best. However, if you're merely trying to give voters a compendium of facts about Ron Paul's stances on issues then sure, this probably works towards that end. I'm all for educating voters and with the volume of misinformation circulating about Ron Paul I think that's a worthwhile goal. But the thing to remember is that voters are rather fickle, and the more information you put in that brochure the more likely they are to find something that they don't like. As many have said, the key is targeting. I don't question the motives of those running the superbrochure project, I think they are well intentioned, and I honestly don't think it's being used for monetary gain. I just think that the effort is misguided. If the plan is to use the brochures purely as an adjunct when talking to potential voters, that's fine; as you can correct any misinterpretations as they arise. This is a luxury we don't have when we are mass mailing them to every potential voter in the state.

The answer is to target voters specifically on issues that are of importance to them, and to limit the potential of turning them off. If the most important issues to a voter are government spending and being pro-life, that is what the messaging should focus on. Why run the risk of turning someone off by mentioning Ron Paul's desire to end the IRS, foreign aid, voting against Iraq, etc. The campaign is placing a lot of attention and effort into identifying voters and the issues that will resonate with them. I know this personally. If you don't trust the campaign, then give your money to Endorse liberty which is run by a cadre of people with experience in marketing. This super brochure effort is carpet bomb, at this point we need to be targeted in our approach.

[ForLibertyFight]

Redesign the Super Brochures to be ONLY about: economy and electability.

[Anarchist]

They have a track record of hurting us. The people who run the project are biased. One of them I spoke to went so far as to say that Ron Paul surged in Iowa because of the Super Brochures, but people who were close to the campaign reported that they lost voters because of the brochures.

The brochures have not had any testing done on them, throw way too many issues on voters who may be more interested in single issues and they undermine mailings that the campaign sends out.

The brochures are simply just terrible if you're not already a Ron Paul supporter.

Please display evidence of the mailings the campaign is sending out that are being undermined.

[Xelaetaks]

Please display evidence of the mailings the campaign is sending out that are being undermined.

I'm not getting to my hometown but I believe they go to voting states in the weeks leading up, it's also been mentioned in some of Ron Paul campaign's emails.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/files/2012/01/Ron-Paul-mailers-010412.jpg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/111126-paul-bcol-9p.380%3B380%3B7%3B70.jpg

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e20167603034a2970b-450wi

[mmadness]

When I posted about the brochures early on, I gave my OPINION that they were not the best tool to use for mass-mailing and gave the reasons why I believed that to be true.

My opinion is not the same thing as fact. What you don't seem to understand is that all you have is an opinion too. Which is probably why you have resulted to insults and personal attacks.

Then, there was the whole thing with the videos being brought up by the search terms in the brochure. I kept raising the issue here until enough people seemed to realize the problem, then I considered my work done. Because it is not my decision whether someone wants to support this effort with their own money, but I wanted them to understand what they were responsible for sending out. A couple of other forum members, who now understood the problem, took it upon themselves to make sure other more appropriate videos were kept bumped up to the top. This solved the immediate problem.

Then, I contacted ronpaulproducts and talked to the guys. They had not realized what the search terms in their brochure were now pulling up. We talked about a solution which was to move all the videos they wanted to point to, to a channel that they controlled. This would end any possibility that people would be viewing a different video than they had intended. They were very open to recommendations and very gracious.

If you believed the brochures didn't work, then if they truly are listening to our feedback, then why have they not stopped the direct-mail campaign? The primary issue for most people is the actual direct-mailing of the brochures blind to people. Talking about the actual design of the brochure (which many with a marketing background think is flawed), is secondary. A few other people have posted about our efforts to contact them, and even design changes have not been implemented, other than obvious things like removing the coffins. In some cases people are still receiving the brochures with coffins. There was a mod Nirvikalpa who received one recently.

You can be as gracious and open to recommendations as you want, but actions speak louder than words. If you have reasonable doubts that the product does not work, and the possibility that they might even be hurtful, you've received feedback from multiple experienced grassroots sources, as well as indirectly from the campaign, then wouldn't you reasonably stop or at least suspend the program to re-evaluate?

My god, this is possibly our only chance to get a pro-liberty candidate with the calibre of Dr. Paul into office. For someone who is actively involved in these forums, I do not get the sense that you understand the urgency or what is at stake. My apologies if that comes across as an attack, but I simply do not understand this mindset of, "these brochures may hurt, but it's not a big deal." This is the impression I'm left with.

As we know with Iowa and Maine, these brochures could be the very thing that make the impact to turn voters away from Dr. Paul to make a difference. A "few votes here and there" matter.

If you're not concerned or are willing to listen to why people are so upset about these, then maybe you should listen. I don't see anyone else being pro-brochure here except for you and Curt, who has a vested interest in these.

And being critical of a product is not libel.

[floridasun1983]

For those asking for proof, the proof is in the fact that the principles of successful direct mail marketing are well established, and the Super Brochure violates most of them. I've taken college level marketing courses, and while that does not make me an expert by any means, it does make me qualified to at least understand why the Super Brochure is an issue and why it, at best, doesn't work. Just because it has Ron Paul printed somewhere on it doesn't mean that the rules of marketing no longer apply, just like Dr. Paul can't defy the law of gravity.

Frankly the money is better spent going to the campaign or, if you are maxed out, to one of the PACs where it can run some effective advertising.

[1stAmendguy]

"As president, Ron Paul will fix health care" is plainly stated on the brochures.

Oh really, so he wants to FIX Obamacare? This is a likely impression readers get. Is that the type of impression we want to make on potential voters in regards to Ron Paul's position on health care? You make the call.

RPP Super brochures - Made by amateurs

[radiofriendly]

Sorry to pile on to this, lol!

The saddest thing is that people who are obsessed with the Super Brochure (it's not "Super") think they are doing "canvassing." You aren't doing political activism--you are handing out a flyer for the Daily Paul or Ron Paul Forums---some people would rather do that...but
please stop pretending that you are canvassing.

Canvassing involves one essential thing. Asking,

"What is the most important issue motivating who you will be voting for in the election?"

(After you have qualified them as a likely voter in the caucus/primary.)

This whole principle, alone, should tell you all you need to know about why the Super Brochure has Zero to do with winning an election.

[LibertyEagle]

If you believed the brochures didn't work, then if they truly are listening to our feedback, then why have they not stopped the direct-mail campaign? The primary issue for most people is the actual direct-mailing of the brochures blind to people. Talking about the actual design of the brochure (which many with a marketing background think is flawed), is secondary. A few other people have posted about our efforts to contact them, and even design changes have not been implemented, other than obvious things like removing the coffins. In some cases people are still receiving the brochures with coffins. There was a mod Nirvikalpa who received one recently.
She did not receive it from ronpaulproducts. She received it from someone who had ordered them previously.


You can be as gracious and open to recommendations as you want, but actions speak louder than words. If you have reasonable doubts that the product does not work, and the possibility that they might even be hurtful, you've received feedback from multiple experienced grassroots sources, as well as indirectly from the campaign, then wouldn't you reasonably stop or at least suspend the program to re-evaluate?
My understanding is that they are constantly evaluating. Which is one of the reasons they are open to feedback.

I keep saying that if you have PROOF that the brochures are doing harm, contact them with it. For some reason, you don't seem to want to do the very thing that could affect the change that you desire.


My god, this is possibly our only chance to get a pro-liberty candidate with the calibre of Dr. Paul into office. For someone who is actively involved in these forums, I do not get the sense that you understand the urgency or what is at stake. My apologies if that comes across as an attack, but I simply do not understand this mindset of, "these brochures may hurt, but it's not a big deal." This is the impression I'm left with.
If you are left with that impression, that would be of your own doing. See, instead of whining about it on an internet forum, which by the way does absolutely zero good in affecting the change you desire, I picked up the phone and talked to Curt.


As we know with Iowa and Maine, these brochures could be the very thing that make the impact to turn voters away from Dr. Paul to make a difference. A "few votes here and there" matter.

If you're not concerned or are willing to listen to why people are so upset about these, then maybe you should listen. I don't see anyone else being pro-brochure here except for you and Curt, who has a vested interest in these.
There you go again, blubbering that I support the brochures, when I have told you more than once that I am not. At least with respect to them being mailed to Republicans. I have no vested interest in them whatsoever.

You can gather what evidence you have that they are hurting the campaign and contact Curt, or you can continue to blather on the internet, where it will do no good. It's your choice.


And being critical of a product is not libel.
I'm not an attorney, but let's check the definition, shall we?


Law .
a. defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.
b. the act or crime of publishing it.
c. a formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.
2. anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libel

Basically, back up your charges. Which to this point, you have not.

[Feeding the Abscess]

I'm just going to say that LibertyEagle has been extremely critical of most third party attempts to promote Ron Paul during this entire campaign (including the super brochure), so to see someone paint her as a supporter or promoter of the brochures is pretty funny.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm just going to say that LibertyEagle has been extremely critical of most third party attempts to promote Ron Paul during this entire campaign (including the super brochure), so to see someone paint her as a supporter or promoter of the brochures is pretty funny.

Well, those where we are competing with the campaign. PAC or other side grassroots efforts should complement, not compete, with the campaign.

[Teamronin]

In light of all the drama, mostly from some of our friends at the DP, I had some great conversations with the guys backing the Super Brochure Project, even after the results of South Carolina.. I understand the motives now of the whole project!!! The backers sent me this video, an insider look at the project today.. I now understand the intent of going forward!!!! A must watch guys!!! Thank them for the real inside look at the project, and telling the truth at last!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsQcgWmE5f4

[Feeding the Abscess]

Well, those where we are competing with the campaign. PAC or other side grassroots efforts should complement, not compete, with the campaign.

I agree. Best to bask in the delights of the division of labor than fight against it.

[KingNothing]

Leaving aside the possibility that the "SUPER BROCHURE" might be damaging... shouldn't we ask to see proof that it actually works? The burden of proof in this instance is on the people asking for money. They haven't shown enough of it to earn mine.

My guess is that it neither hurts nor helps. If that's true, we should be spending our time and money on something else. Until the Super Brochure folks can prove otherwise, I see no reason to change my beliefs on that matter.

[Tobias2dope]

How about instead of B!TCHING about this why don't we all get together and call these people.

Flood them with phone calls or something.

Do something if you really care.

[tfurrh]

why has this thread not dropped yet?

[mmadness]

My understanding is that they are constantly evaluating. Which is one of the reasons they are open to feedback.

I keep saying that if you have PROOF that the brochures are doing harm, contact them with it. For some reason, you don't seem to want to do the very thing that could affect the change that you desire.

Again, actions speak louder than words. So they are "constantly evaluating" but unwilling to suspend if multiple sources are saying that the product does not work? How can you say that they are actually listen if they won't stop?

What do you think we are doing with contacting RPP and also posting on these forums? We actually doing something about it and effecting change, unlike someone essentially saying we can't come out against the brochures because we don't have "HARD proof".

My question is this - what would constitute "hard proof" that would convince you of the brochures not working?

Would it be talking with the grassroots involved in Iowa who have said that this brochure harmed more than help? Would it be talking to sources within the campaign? Would experienced grassroots people like Aaron, iRoots and RevPac not be enough to convince you? These and the fact that we did worse in the states which had the SB direct-mailed should be enough to prove that.

I think the burden of proof is on you to prove that you would be willing to change your mind. I was originally for these brochures, but after a lot of reports, changed my mind. Are you able to be convinced? I'm not convinced that you are.


If you are left with that impression, that would be of your own doing. See, instead of whining about it on an internet forum, which by the way does absolutely zero good in affecting the change you desire, I picked up the phone and talked to Curt.

Great, so warning people about these brochures, which could hurt Dr. Paul's chances, is "whining" now? What do you call it when we defend Dr. Paul from the MSM? Is that "whining" too? You say that you are against personal insults, but here you go insulting someone who is defending Dr. Paul.


There you go again, blubbering that I support the brochures, when I have told you more than once that I am not. At least with respect to them being mailed to Republicans. I have no vested interest in them whatsoever.

Really, you don't support the brochures? Then you should have no problem with those of us exercising our free speech to criticize these brochures then. Oh wait, you don't support the brochures but you don't support people trying to shine the light on them.


You can gather what evidence you have that they are hurting the campaign and contact Curt, or you can continue to blather on the internet, where it will do no good. It's your choice.

We already have the evidence from the completed primaries. Whether or not you choose to objectively look at that, as well as listen to experienced grassroots, is your choice.

Really - no good? I have had multiple posters thank me for letting them know about these brochures, they have started putting in their RPF sig warning statements about these brochures. I think that these discussions make a difference.


I'm not an attorney, but let's check the definition, shall we?


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libel

Basically, back up your charges. Which to this point, you have not.

We have. You back up your charges that the brochures work. Plus if everything criticizing a product is libel, then how can we ever criticize a corporation? How can we criticize the government? Oh wait, it's libel. Stop with the fear tactics!

[mmadness]

Leaving aside the possibility that the "SUPER BROCHURE" might be damaging... shouldn't we ask to see proof that it actually works? The burden of proof in this instance is on the people asking for money. They haven't shown enough of it to earn mine.

Agreed. Especially if the campaign is asking for money at this crucial stage and this project is diverting badly needed funds.

[Teamronin]

The project has now moved on to Georgia front page... I just think it's a shame, considering the campaign has asked us to hit the $2 million money bomb mark by midnight tonight... Oh well, I guess for some, Ron Pauls requests' take the back seat to this for profit project....

[Lucille]

The project has now moved on to Georgia front page... I just think it's a shame, considering the campaign has asked us to hit the $2 million money bomb mark by midnight tonight... Oh well, I guess for some, Ron Pauls requests' take the back seat to this for profit project....

On the DP: Inspired Anonymous Donors Pledge *Another* $15,000 in Matching for Georgia Super Brochure Mailing - Deadline Midnight Tonight!

The SB dumbasses must be stopped.

[LibertyEagle]

Again, actions speak louder than words. So they are "constantly evaluating" but unwilling to suspend if multiple sources are saying that the product does not work? How can you say that they are actually listen if they won't stop?

What do you think we are doing with contacting RPP and also posting on these forums? We actually doing something about it and effecting change, unlike someone essentially saying we can't come out against the brochures because we don't have "HARD proof".

My question is this - what would constitute "hard proof" that would convince you of the brochures not working?
You need someone with first-hand experience with the brochures actually turning someone away from Ron Paul.


Would it be talking with the grassroots involved in Iowa who have said that this brochure harmed more than help?
If it is first-hand experience, yes. Otherwise, it is hearsay, in which case the answer would be no.


Would it be talking to sources within the campaign?
Sure. That would certainly be relevant. But, it would have to be more than what was posted here that one time. Because it wasn't clear whether the issue was the coffins on the brochures, or something else.


Would experienced grassroots people like Aaron, iRoots and RevPac not be enough to convince you?
Do they have first-hand experience?


These and the fact that we did worse in the states which had the SB direct-mailed should be enough to prove that.
Actually, no, that isn't logical. There could be any number of other factors involved.


I think the burden of proof is on you to prove that you would be willing to change your mind. I was originally for these brochures, but after a lot of reports, changed my mind.
:rolleyes:

You are the one making the accusation, dude. Prove your case.


Are you able to be convinced? I'm not convinced that you are.
You are of course free to believe whatever you want to believe. But, you are getting off-track. This isn't about convincing me, it is about you gathering the proof to make your case to ronpaulproducts. Thus far, you have not and when that is pointed out to you, it seems to aggravate you.

[mmadness]

You need someone with first-hand experience with the brochures actually turning someone away from Ron Paul.

If it is first-hand experience, yes. Otherwise, it is hearsay, in which case the answer would be no.

Sigh... this has been done to death. There have been several RPFers who have stepped up in previous threads about these with first-hand experience in the field. gerryb I'm pretty sure was one. Just check Hot Topics or wait and I'm sure someone will step up to confirm. It wasn't just one RPFer, it was multiple. I mean if it was just one then I would have just discounted it myself.


Sure. That would certainly be relevant. But, it would have to be more than what was posted here that one time. Because it wasn't clear whether the issue was the coffins on the brochures, or something else.

Again, not sure if you were here for the multiple threads that ended up getting moved to Hot Topics. You have a pretty high post count but maybe you just missed it all. But we had multiple sources and RPFers step up and say that the official campaign is against it. But due to FEC regulations, they can't "officially" say anything. But the info has filtered out.


Do they have first-hand experience?

Pretty positive. Aaron ended up being the guy who went from Indiana to Maine to help live-stream the caucuses. I would trust what he has to say, at least over someone who has a vested interest in the project (Curt). Not that I like to point out post counts or join dates but the people who have stepped up also on RPF up I trust based on how long they've been posting and their first-hand accounts. Too many people would have to be lying if that were the case. Wouldn't it make sense that you would have at least someone who became a RPFer because they got mailed a SB? I haven't heard of one.


Actually, no, that isn't logical. There could be any number of other factors involved.

Like what?


You are the one making the accusation, dude. Prove your case.

I think you are missing crucial information to based your judgments on so until you do I don't think we can have a valid, objective discussion. For example, have you checked out this thread recently? Zak Carter just came out and admitted that he was paid to shill for Ron Paul Products and the brochures:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?362431-My-Confession-Concerning-the-quot-Super-quot-Brochure

Now there are a lot of fishy things coming out about these brochures. Too many things are adding up. Who knows how many others are getting paid to shill for these brochures? Why does Ron Paul Products need to resort to such deceptive tactics?


You are of course free to believe whatever you want to believe. But, you are getting off-track. This isn't about convincing me, it is about you gathering the proof to make your case to ronpaulproducts. Thus far, you have not and when that is pointed out to you, it seems to aggravate you.


Well, it's a valid question, because it goes towards objectivity.

So again the question is, what would constitute "hard proof" for you to be convinced? Because if you can't actually say what that is, or convince someone that you can change your mind or be objective, then whatever arguments you have regarding these brochures are not objective. And I think it's important for the objective RPFer to be able to sort out the best information, because ultimately, our goal is to get Dr. Paul elected in 2012 first and foremost. The educational campaign comes second.

If Ron Paul Products were truly interested in educating the people, then why not release a brochure, but as Aaron points out, without Ron Paul on it? Why would they need Ron Paul on it at all? Shouldn't their product stand up by itself?

I am not against a company making profit for providing a good service or product. Without deception.

Let's even just say they discontinue the direct-mail program, which is what most people are requesting. They're still in business selling their brochures the usual way, to RP supporters, as well as many different products. Why not even consider suspending if it's hurting Dr. Paul? At some point one has to objectively conclude that they will not listen to any negative feedback about this program, so that is why the program continues, even though they have other ways of making money.

Plus, you keep making the assertion that the proof has yet to be gathered, which I think most objective people can determine that proof has been gathered based on our finishes in the primaries. And you also keep making the assertion that this "hard proof" must be submitted to Ron Paul Products, and only to Ron Paul Products, without being discussed in the open.

This brings up an analogy... like asking the fox how to better guard the henhouse next time. Or asking Lucy not to keep swiping the ball away from Charlie Brown. Or asking someone to gather evidence that the federal government is expanding, and then asking them to report that proof only to the government! :) When the solution is to get the truth out into the public, and to divert the resources to someone who will actually shrink government (Dr. Paul).

Ron Paul Products is not running for President. Dr. Paul is. Ron Paul Products will not shrink government. Dr. Paul will. Let's not lose sight of that fact and realize that corporations can and will be motivated first and foremost by profit, not ethics.

[LibertyEagle]

...
Yet another wall of text.

I have asked you repeatedly to show the proof you have and to date, I have not seen you post any first-hand experiences at all. If you think people should just believe you because you scream the loudest, well, that is not objective in the least.

Show the first-hand experiences, right here, right now. Stop posting book long posts and show us the proof. That is all it ever required. Can you do it?



I think you are missing crucial information to based your judgments on so until you do I don't think we can have a valid, objective discussion. For example, have you checked out this thread recently? Zak Carter just came out and admitted that he was paid to shill for Ron Paul Products and the brochures:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-quot-Brochure
He posted it at midnight last night, so no.

Yes, it is very interesting and certainly concerning. That's one nail.

EDIT: It appears that Zak was given a small sum of money to set up interviews and maybe some web advertising. I hope I'm remembering this correctly.



Well, it's a valid question, because it goes towards objectivity.

So again the question is, what would constitute "hard proof" for you to be convinced? Because if you can't actually say what that is, or convince someone that you can change your mind or be objective, then whatever arguments you have regarding these brochures are not objective. And I think it's important for the objective RPFer to be able to sort out the best information, because ultimately, our goal is to get Dr. Paul elected in 2012 first and foremost. The educational campaign comes second.

FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES. How many times do I have to tell you this?

What Zak posted tonight on Daily Paul about being paid to promote the brochures is certainly very damning. But, in my opinion, we still need direct evidence that they have turned people away from Ron Paul. I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding this. Hearsay isn't the same. Remember that old game of telephone that you might have played in kindergarten. The story started out one way at the beginning, but by the time it went through a lot of other people, it was being recounted totally differently at the end.

Just show some first hand experiences of people who were turned away from Ron Paul, because of the brochures. It should be easy, since you are so involved in this. That is all it will take to nail the coffin shut.

[eleganz]

If they're going to send super brochures to states, at least don't send them to states that the campaign is actually contesting with a major campaign presence.


It is almost like everything they are doing is purposefully counter-productive to the campaign.

Everywhere these brochures go is LOSING VOTES.



Stop asking for PROOF, you know it isn't going to happen because that would take an official statement from the campaign.



THE SUPER BROCHURE IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.

[mmadness]

Yet another wall of text.

Well, at least read it before just slamming it as a "wall of text". :cool: Oh wait, that's the "Super" Brochure we are talking about.


I have asked you repeatedly to show the proof you have and to date, I have not seen you post any first-hand experiences at all.

Show the first-hand experiences, right here, right now. Stop posting book long posts and show us the proof. That is all it ever required. Can you do it?

We still need the first-hand experiences though.

FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES. How many times do I have to tell you this?

Just show some first hand experiences of people who were turned away from Ron Paul, because of the brochures.

Just did a search - surprised how quick and easy it was because of so many threads and people upset.

One post right here has a ton (credit to gerryb):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?362392-Ron-Paul-Brochure-Question.&p=4203676&viewfull=1#post4203676

[LibertyEagle]

Thanks.

The links at the bottom of his post were more of what I was looking for. This one, in particular, was the type of first-hand experience that I was hoping to see.


I was a participant in the Youth for Ron Paul GOTV efforts in Iowa.
We heard from top officials of the Campaign, on several occasions, tell us that they have material evidence that the Super Brochures have hurt Ron Paul in the eyes undecided voters, social conservatives, and others.

Even while we were phonebanking, we had to clear misconceptions with several individuals on Dr. Paul's positions on the Fed, IRS, and even 9/11, thanks to what they read on those dark green brochures.

Your heart is in the right place. We're all fighting for the same cause. So when someone says, with this much emphasis, that the Super Brochures have hurt us more than they have helped us, I hope you take our word for it, along with what I've said above.

That was the only one I saw that was first-hand. Have you seen more, because I'd like to be armed with several, if you know of them. Thanks.

[LibertyEagle]

If they're going to send super brochures to states, at least don't send them to states that the campaign is actually contesting with a major campaign presence.
I have already asked them much the same.


It is almost like everything they are doing is purposefully counter-productive to the campaign.

Everywhere these brochures go is LOSING VOTES.


Stop asking for PROOF, you know it isn't going to happen because that would take an official statement from the campaign.
Apparently, that's not true. I quoted one in my last post. There are tons of brochures out there now. There should be quite a bit of first-hand experiences from the grassroots, I would think.

Having proof is our best chance to get these things stopped. That is why it is important.


THE SUPER BROCHURE IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.
I agree with that. But, if just saying it was enough, they would already be stopped.

[PaulConventionWV]

One of the problems is that Ron Paul needs to present that viewpoint too.

I'm not sure he has even talked about the IRS this campaign cycle.

[KMX]

Goodbye 1st place finish, hello 3rd place... again. Notice the states that we have done well in.

NH, Minnisota, Maine - NONE OF THEM HAD SB SENT
IA,SC,FL,NV - ALL STATES WHERE SB WERE SENT!


IA, Fraud
SC, Fraud
FL, Winer Take all Ron Paul said F U FL.
NV, Fraud

[specsaregood]

The fact that these people paid trolls to promote their brochure here on rpfs and hide that they were getting paid should be enough to finally put these things into their grave where they belong.

[gerryb]

Thanks.

The links at the bottom of his post were more of what I was looking for. This one, in particular, was the type of first-hand experience that I was hoping to see.



That was the only one I saw that was first-hand. Have you seen more, because I'd like to be armed with several, if you know of them. Thanks.

There have been dozens posted. If more people were willing to break their NDA's - there would be more(at least one on that thread was deleted). I linked to several of them in one post when I got tired of people like you saying "oh but that last post was just one example". After I got 6, I got tired of looking.

click the link in my signature

[LibertyProsperity_56]

Here is a confession of someone who was paid by RonPaulProducts to promote it on various forums: http://www.dailypaul.com/215695/my-confession-concerning-the-super-brochure?page=3

I wish more people would step up and inform us about the fact that the SuperBrochure is a big money-making scam that is hurting the campaign.

[LibertyProsperity_56]

Yet another wall of text.
...Hearsay isn't the same. Remember that old game of telephone that you might have played in kindergarten. The story started out one way at the beginning, but by the time it went through a lot of other people, it was being recounted totally differently at the end."

LibertyEagle, you are very rude and condescending. This is your response to devoted people who want Ron to win the nomination? You probably watched too much courtroom drama and are trying to bring in this "hearsay" legal mumble jumble into this discussion. Stop being so condescending and use some common sense.

A lot of campaign staff members have said that the SuperBrochures are hurting the campaign. A lot of volunteers on the ground have said that they had to spend time clearing voters' misunderstandings caused by the SuperBrochure. My nephew was in Iowa with the youth program, and said that voters did not like the SuperBrochure and thought that Ron Paul was crazy. People with marketing experience have laughed at the SuperBrochure because it is guaranteed to turn off voters. That is all the evidence that rationale people need.

[Paulistinian]

Zak Carter worked for the Super Brochure, he was paid to promote them. He came clean last night about how SuperBrochure hurts Ron Paul with voters and that it is just a money-making scheme by RPProducts. This morning his DailyPaul post was edited by the mods to read "spam spam spam etc". DailyPaul and RPP are making some serious dough off of this and they don't give a fuck if Ron Paul wins the nomination or not.

[Lucille]

Since the SBs have been exposed as a money-making scam, and they're are harming the campaign, will the mods please do something to stop the SB salesmen and shills who are using this site to hawk their wares, and move any SB threads to hot topics? Why is this spamming being tolerated here?

[PolicyReader]

A lot of campaign staff members have said that the SuperBrochures are hurting the campaign. A lot of volunteers on the ground have said that they had to spend time clearing voters' misunderstandings caused by the SuperBrochure. My nephew was in Iowa with the youth program, and said that voters did not like the SuperBrochure and thought that Ron Paul was crazy. People with marketing experience have laughed at the SuperBrochure because it is guaranteed to turn off voters. That is all the evidence that rationale people need.


Zak Carter worked for the Super Brochure, he was paid to promote them. He came clean last night about how SuperBrochure hurts Ron Paul with voters and that it is just a money-making scheme by RPProducts. This morning his DailyPaul post was edited by the mods to read "spam spam spam etc". DailyPaul and RPP are making some serious dough off of this and they don't give a fuck if Ron Paul wins the nomination or not.


Since the SBs have been exposed as a money-making scam, and they're are harming the campaign, will the mods please do something to stop the SB salesmen and shills who are using this site to hawk their wares, and move any SB threads to hot topics?

This pretty much covers the thread. I know as liberty minded folks we're all for free speech but at the point where there is mounting evidence of harm being done to the presidential chances of Paul by the use of these products is it really an abridgment of free speech to move all SB threads out of grassroots central?
We the grass roots need to be focused and active, having or time energy and money going into something ineffective (let alone detrimental) is a serious problem for the 2012 cycle. I've never before reported a post, as such I know zero about the process but this is the first time I've actually begun to consider it. Someone profiting off of the grassroots while not effectively contributing to the Paul campaign is something we can ill afford during this election, and in my opinion it needs to stop. (besides doesn't it count as advertising and isn't that a violation of the ToS?)

[Aratus]

in the states where SBs flooded in, was gov. mitt romney sorta slightly boosted by them in an indirect way?
either a voter likes them immensely or poor flipflopper mitt suddenly looks way more logical and consistent!!
the one thing the legendary superbrochures don't do is toughen up the resolve of newt G or rick S people!!!