Maine GOP: Results went to spam filter (on Drudge)

[EndTheFed]

www.drudgereport.com


Oh yea... That explains it... a simple accident.... Ahhhhhh...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73015.html

[Jtorsella]

“[Ron Paul supporters] are just being conspiracy theorists. … If they talked to any other legislators in Maine who are Ron Paul supporters, they would be told that I have been fair,” Webster said. “What angers me is that people who question that I’m neutral don’t know me.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73015_Page2.html#ixzz1meP35cF1
lol

[sailingaway]

Actually, the editorial board of a paper there said he had a record of not being fair, by their lights. 'Conspiracy theorists', huh? Reduced to name calling, I see.

[JuicyG]

Actually, the editorial board of a paper there said he had a record of not being fair, by their lights. 'Conspiracy theorists', huh? Reduced to name calling, I see.

When people can`t come up with sensible explanations, they resort to name calling.

[Dublin4Paul]

I'm pretty critical of many Paul supporters who seriously delve into tin foil hat territory in conspiracy theory mania, but this is one of those instances where even I say that there had to be some level of shenanigans going on at some level. Entire caucuses not reporting for over a week now, cancelling a caucus over fear of potential snow in Maine..... Eh, whatever. The lack of respect we get from our own party shouldn't surprise or anger me anymore, but it does for some reason.

[Schiff_FTW]

Don't worry guys, he says he is sometimes called "Ron Paul Jr." by his colleagues. :rolleyes:

[KingNothing]

I'm pretty critical of many Paul supporters who seriously delve into tin foil hat territory in conspiracy theory mania, but this is one of those instances where even I say that there had to be some level of shenanigans going on at some level. Entire caucuses not reporting for over a week now, cancelling a caucus over fear of potential snow in Maine..... Eh, whatever. The lack of respect we get from our own party shouldn't surprise or anger me anymore, but it does for some reason.

Pretty much. The level of tin foil hattery among Paul supporters is generally unnecessary, but what happened in Maine is ridiculous. It's the perfect mix of stupidity and conspiracy to make the Republican party look as abysmal as it probably is.

[Original_Intent]

Sounds like plausible deniability to me.

[EndTheFed]

At a Tea Party event We once gave our local talk show host (Ron Paul Hater) his own personal do-it-yourself tin foil hat kit.. (roll of tin foil with a label on it)

[PatriotOne]

Oh yea... That explains it... a simple accident.... Ahhhhhh...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73015.html

What a crock of shite. Pretty sure the GOP would have a tally sheet listing all the caucus areas and if they couldn't find a particular town that should have reported they would/should call them to get the numbers :rolleyes:.

[bcreps85]

Normally, I might be quick to point to "oddities", such as counting votes in secret, the unbalanced media reporting, and whatnot, but so far this election I see at least one instance of outright election fraud (Maine), and another one that has the hairs on my neck standing up (The SC statistics that looks like a "vote swap").

Frankly, since they are "recounting" and have already showed massive favoritism towards Romney, I'm having a hard time convincing myself that these new numbers will be true. The mistake they made last time was lying about precincts where Ron Paul won, and getting caught. My personal belief at the moment is that they are learning where they messed up, and will probably try padding Romney's numbers in areas where he won instead where there is much less chance of anyone blowing the whistle...

*EDIT* I think these numbers need to be combed through diligently when they come out.

[Mark37snj]

Actually, the editorial board of a paper there said he had a record of not being fair, by their lights. 'Conspiracy theorists', huh? Reduced to name calling, I see.

+1

[rprprs]

“[Ron Paul supporters] are just being conspiracy theorists. … If they talked to any other legislators in Maine who are Ron Paul supporters, they would be told that I have been fair,” Webster said.
Now, that's evidence of fairness if I ever saw it.
:rolleyes:

[Matthew5]

Can we now refer to Mr. Webster as "Junior"?

Spam folder? They've had how many days and the best they could come up with is spam folder?

[slamhead]

Funny how they only point out one clerical error that was corrected in Romney's favor. Hopefully there will be a way to verify the "final" results they are publishing. If they have them why are they waiting?

[bobburn]

The man is lying plain and simple. So far about a 1/3 of the vote difference between Paul and Romney has been erased through "corrections." That's not significant? With around at least 200 people expected to caucus in Washington County and majority of them expected to go to Paul, there very well could be a change in "winner." If turnout is greater than 300, Ron will definitely win.

[kathy88]

We ought to start commenting on these articles linking to the piece about college students, then noting the date of the caucus being moved to when they were on break?

[fc2008]

So Santorum won Waldo County now?

[PolicyReader]

We ought to start commenting on these articles linking to the piece about college students, then noting the date of the caucus being moved to when they were on break?
Include the latest from Ben Swann on the subject (state party forces Caucus to be postponed not the county party and then state party introduces new restrictions saying the later Caucuses won't be counted? wow. ) and that the Girl Scouts didn't cancel their event as well :)

[braane]

So Santorum won Waldo County now?

So... either Ben Swann's numbers are wrong, Webster is lying yet again, or they are still tampering with the results.

This is so messed up we will never actually get the correct results. Webster should be fired, and I assume by the time all is said and done he will be.

[chris41336]

Guys...they really think we are stupid. Wow

[sailingaway]

What a crock of shite. Pretty sure the GOP would have a tally sheet listing all the caucus areas and if they couldn't find a particular town that should have reported they would/should call them to get the numbers :rolleyes:.

the point is that the errors were pointed out that day and the next day and they refused to redo it.

[sailingaway]

The man is lying plain and simple. So far about a 1/3 of the vote difference between Paul and Romney has been erased through "corrections." That's not significant? With around at least 200 people expected to caucus in Washington County and majority of them expected to go to Paul, there very well could be a change in "winner." If turnout is greater than 300, Ron will definitely win.

I'm concerned about the caucus turn outs. they are saying WE are going to pack them, but I think the party has a LOT of its reputation on the line now and if Romney wins this becomes more of a 'see it didn't matter' talking point. They have GOT to be pushing attendance, and Romney is very very good with under the radar buses. Those guys don't do their planning on discussion boards.

[kill the banks]

hope we get our guy in when this guy is canned

[specsaregood]

Guys...they really think we are stupid. Wow

More correct would be to say they think the majority of the public is stupid.

[sailingaway]

hope we get our guy in when this guy is canned

very definitely this. If we control the delegates at the state convention we have at least a decent shot at it.

[V3n]

The vote figures may be altered slightly, he said, but the results — a Romney win, followed by a second-place finish by Paul — would not change.

Easy to know the outcome in advance when you're the one counting the votes. :rolleyes:

[chris41336]

More correct would be to say they think the majority of the public is stupid.

I sincerely hope that there is nobody home today thinking "yeah, that makes sense, I get spam all the time! Case closed!"

[BUSHLIED]

The irony is that to the Maine GOP vote totals showing Dr. Paul won a county is considered SPAM...haters.

[specsaregood]

I sincerely hope that there is nobody home today thinking "yeah, that makes sense, I get spam all the time! Case closed!"

I think there are probably more people at work today thinking, "yeah, I've used that SPAM excuse before too, that's a good one!"

[kylejack]

Don't worry guys, he says he is sometimes called "Ron Paul Jr." by his colleagues. :rolleyes:
Nah, he said the only person opposed to what he was doing was a state legislator that he sometimes calls Ron Paul Jr. They don't name the legislator.

[aloneinthewilderness]

There certainly isn't anybody that is sticking up for Webster in the comments section of the article.

[Barrex]

How hard would it be for 1-2 persons to verify all the results by them selfs? Call all county chairmans and all town chairman to get all the numbers and get it right?


Is charlie superdelegate? If he is In Maine party rules and bylaws there is option to remove him from that position and replace him (read them people, read them.).

[affa]

http://drudgereport.com/

article:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73015.html

"“[Ron Paul supporters] are just being conspiracy theorists. … If they talked to any other legislators in Maine who are Ron Paul supporters, they would be told that I have been fair,” Webster said. “What angers me is that people who question that I’m neutral don’t know me.”

He added that as a state legislator he was sometimes called “Ron Paul Jr.” for being the lone vote in opposition to a measure."


This dude is scum. If you fubar'd up a State election this badly, you deserve to get trashed. To get angry at the people trashing you is just stupid. Resign in disgrace and get it over with.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Seems he is just panning the fire... Something doesnt seem right. Why would they allow themselves to dig themselves a deeper hole?

[splanky]

He deserves to be called Junior all right.

[JJ2]

I don't trust him just looking at him. He does not seem honest.

[JJ2]

If the local/county chairmen's emails went to spam, then how did they ever used to communicate with them by email? LOL.

[bcreps85]

If the local/county chairmen's emails went to spam, then how did they ever used to communicate with them by email? LOL.

This is my thought process...why doesn't he have a filter set up that stops party members that he communicates with on a normal basis from being marked as spam? Second, if this was the real reason, why did it take him so long to say it? Seems to me like it took a week to come up with a bad excuse. Beyond that...this still doesn't explain why they already had results for at least one area that had not yet called in the results...how many more times did that happen and HOW did it happen?

This doesn't add up. It's either fraud or incompetence. Either way he isn't fit for the job.

[sailingaway]

How hard would it be for 1-2 persons to verify all the results by them selfs? Call all county chairmans and all town chairman to get all the numbers and get it right?


Is charlie superdelegate? If he is In Maine party rules and bylaws there is option to remove him from that position and replace him (read them people, read them.).

I'm thinking if we get most of the delegates, we might have a say in who the chairman/superdelegate is. And someone who refuses to correct numbers he knows to be wrong, for days, might not be the person we vote for in that position, regardless of whom the final numbers favor.

[JJ2]

Beyond that...this still doesn't explain why they already had results for at least one area that had not yet called in the results...how many more times did that happen and HOW did it happen?

I think Maddow misunderstood that one. What I remember that guy saying is that he called the numbers in from their Feb. 4 caucus on Feb. 7 and then after Feb. 11 when he noticed they had zeroes for his location, he called them again and they said they did have the numbers (but their numbers were wrong).

And notice "called in"--not emailed into a spam box!!

[Liberty74]

Seems he is just panning the fire... Something doesnt seem right. Why would they allow themselves to dig themselves a deeper hole?

That's what dick douches do. Did I just say that out loud?

[kylejack]

If the local/county chairmen's emails went to spam, then how did they ever used to communicate with them by email? LOL.
Elegant spam filters use more complicated algorithms than just blocking an e-mail address. If the results were sent in .xls format, a spam filter might consider it a higher threat as there are virus macros in Excel files.

But when they expected a result from a caucus and one didn't come, they should have called the guy and asked him the results. Especially before declaring the result 'official'.

[bcreps85]

I think Maddow misunderstood that one. What I remember that guy saying is that he called the numbers in from their Feb. 4 caucus on Feb. 7 and then after Feb. 11 when he noticed they had zeroes for his location, he called them again and they said they did have the numbers (but their numbers were wrong).

And notice "called in"--not emailed into a spam box!!

Correct, I don't think Maddow or Swann really hit on the seriousness of this allegation. If they had numbers that were wrong, there are a few possibilities.

1. They just put in Romney friendly numbers. Fraud.

2. Someone pretended to be the official who was supposed to call in the numbers, but reported fake numbers. Fraud.

3. Clerical error...typing something on the wrong line or something like that. Incompetence.

That's it...I cannot think of one other way this could happen. So, 66.6% chance of fraud, 33.3% chance of incompetence. Given how the story has unfolded, I'm just going to go with 100% chance of both.

[bcreps85]

Elegant spam filters use more complicated algorithms than just blocking an e-mail address. If the results were sent in .xls format, a spam filter might consider it a higher threat as there are virus macros in Excel files.

But when they expected a result from a caucus and one didn't come, they should have called the guy and asked him the results. Especially before declaring the result 'official'.

Yes, but anyone with half a brain puts people they communicate with on a normal basis in a rule that excludes the spam algorithm in the first place...especially if it is, say, for official business. Anyone who doesn't do something like this would check their spam folder regularly...you know, like if they were expecting important e-mails!

[Adam West]

SPAM? The dog ate my homework...

[enrique]

As someone who has served a little with a highly organized Republican party in Kent County, MI (Grand Rapids) I can say that very easily these mistakes can be 'explained away.' Nearly everyone working this caucus project is a volunteer from the state chair on down. There are probably one or two low paid executive directors but that's it.

Unquestionably, people were sloppy and rushed. No way these state party guys know even 2% of the town caucus chairs who are calling in results. They might know the county chairs. Everyone here looks at the GOP establishment as some big-brother operation when in fact it's just a bunch of guys who have other jobs but like to be involved in politics and don't devote a lot of their time to these processes.

They end up being too ambitious in their plans, find they don't have people to execute them, and then look like fools when it falls apart when there is scrutiny. They also had grandiose plans for getting some media attention by trying to keep the vote totals secret and have the caucusing completed by February 11th so their state would be covered (which it was). Of course, they probably never considered what would happen if a whole county cancelled or they didn't have enough time to collect solid data, or if people who were supposed to be collecting it all along failed to do so.

Webster and his crew didn't want to look like Nevada or Iowa so he made an announcement for Mitt Romney thinking that probably Mitt would win even with the cancellations. Also, he knows how the process really works where delegates are what counts so he didn't feel that accuracy in the straw poll mattered that much.

Webster's reaction to the way the story has developed and how GOP voters are angry will quickly lead to his resignation (or removal from his position if he's too stubborn to resign - I don't know him personally). Like all people in these organizations he felt that things weren't that bad so the story would die. He probably came up with most of the plan himself including the announcing, cutoff dates, etc. so he will go to the mat defending it. Ironically the media attention and his complete mishandling of it that he will be remembered for most.

So is that incompetence? I suppose so. I doubt there's much, if any, fraud. But clearly lots of dumb decisions, statements, and errors in the collection of data and planning. Although the rules are written to protect the established candidates, we're not facing Lex Luther in the GOP - more like the Keystone Kops.

[FreeTraveler]

Don't worry guys, he says he is sometimes called "Ron Paul Jr." by his colleagues. :rolleyes:
If that isn't a prime case of "Some of my best friends are ..." I don't know what is.

[Adam West]

enrique,

C'mon Man. Counting 5000 votes is hardly rocket science.

[bcreps85]

So because he was afraid it would turn out like Nevada, he treated it just like it was...Nevada? Yes, that is incompetence. Something that wasn't mentioned in your post are instances where he said the state gop made a decision that he had to follow, while a representative from the state gop claimed it was his decision. That's lying by either him or that rep. If it was intentional on the account of whoever is lying, that's fraud.

Even getting into their spreadsheet...things are added wrong. How the heck do you add wrong in Excel? My 60 year-old step dad is good in Excel...and so is his dad. But these people can't find someone with the basic computer knowledge to tally 5,000 votes in a computer program? I could come up with a volunteer that would do that for free in less than 30 minutes of being asked to (in the event that I couldn't do it myself).

[pauliticalfan]

Down with Webster.

I had I bad feeling about this guy as soon as I saw him on TV, even before he read the "results". He probably just scribbled Mitt Romney's name on a piece of paper and stuffed it an envelope before he did his whole awards show reveal.

[SCOTUSman]

Webster will not bend. What an arrogant SOB.

[enrique]

enrique,

C'mon Man. Counting 5000 votes is hardly rocket science.

I agree. But running a caucus with hundreds of towns reporting in over a few weeks and my guess is a couple of different people entering/verifying data they screw up. Especially because they don't do this often.

Webster's a tool. I've seen tons of guys like him who enjoy the notoriety of standing up before a national camera and being famous for a few minutes. It will end up costing him his position and he'll be remembered as a fool - and rightly so.

All I'm saying is there is probably no conspiracy but a bunch of bumblers who don't pay attention to details. People screw things up all the time - especially things they don't do all the time. It's why most towns have clerks who are used to running elections, etc.

[beezle]

Pretty much. The level of tin foil hattery among Paul supporters is generally unnecessary, but what happened in Maine is ridiculous. It's the perfect mix of stupidity and conspiracy to make the Republican party look as abysmal as it probably is.

I'm all for having all the votes counted and counted accurately. But I'm not for screaming fraud after every vote. No election is perfect. Most states specify levels of between 0.5 and 1.0 % for a mandatory recount because they know that errors are made. Look at the people running your voting district. How many are grannies? How many are really good at what they are doing? They are all volunteers and are not going to be turned away as its a job that nobody wants to do. Think about what a transposition error (for one candidate or incorrect attribution) could do to the total here. So many are claiming malice to something that is pretty common in daily life.

Regarding ME, I don't think there was an intent to shaft RP. This is pure and simple errors, incompetence and CYA. Even in regards Washington Co, if this were voting day for a Congress critter, President, Governor, etc there would not be a do-over. Granted, they probably would have kept the place open for anyone willing to chance driving there. But I can fully understand after the fact why the party would say they did not plan to count it. Was that a wise decision given how tight the race was and the candidates involved? Probably not. But it was not off the cliff looney.

In the end, I do not think any of this will help RP one iota. It will hurt the Maine GOP as they look like incompetents and are proved to be so, at least at the higher levels. Think back to Santorum and IA. Being declared winner after the fact did not help him in NH, SC or FL. It was only after Gingrich imploded again that Santorum became the 'not Romney.' Even Romney would not be hurt much if at all as everyone else has moved on and realizes that he "won" by less than 200 votes. If it flips on correction does it matter? Romney should have won going away and he did not - that was the important point and that is what has boosted Santorum further. And as far as delegates go, the campaign says it won't change anything.

This also may have hurt RP. Beyond the potential perception of behing a sore loser and being labelled as leader of conspiracy theorists, this ME thing has taken much steam out of where efforts needed to be made the past week - in the 13 states having primaries in the next few weeks. In most, we are not polling well at all but have a shot at improving our position. Each day is critical and time should not be wasted focusing so heavily on something which will have litte, if any, bearing on future outcomes.

[Adam West]

I agree. But running a caucus with hundreds of towns reporting in over a few weeks and my guess is a couple of different people entering/verifying data they screw up. Especially because they don't do this often.

Webster's a tool. I've seen tons of guys like him who enjoy the notoriety of standing up before a national camera and being famous for a few minutes. It will end up costing him his position and he'll be remembered as a fool - and rightly so.

All I'm saying is there is probably no conspiracy but a bunch of bumblers who don't pay attention to details. People screw things up all the time - especially things they don't do all the time. It's why most towns have clerks who are used to running elections, etc.

Fair enough. But why hold a Caucus if you don't have the tools in place? This is not as a complicated process as you are making it sound.

Have written ballots put into a box in full view of Candidate representatives. When voting is over, open the box and count the votes in front of Candidate representatives. This is Maine, not California. It is only 5000 votes. It hardly requires a skilled team of technicians. Like I said: "This is not Rocket science."

[affa]

As someone who has served a little with a highly organized Republican party in Kent County, MI (Grand Rapids) I can say that very easily these mistakes can be 'explained away.' Nearly everyone working this caucus project is a volunteer from the state chair on down. There are probably one or two low paid executive directors but that's it.

Unquestionably, people were sloppy and rushed. No way these state party guys know even 2% of the town caucus chairs who are calling in results. They might know the county chairs. Everyone here looks at the GOP establishment as some big-brother operation when in fact it's just a bunch of guys who have other jobs but like to be involved in politics and don't devote a lot of their time to these processes.

They end up being too ambitious in their plans, find they don't have people to execute them, and then look like fools when it falls apart when there is scrutiny. They also had grandiose plans for getting some media attention by trying to keep the vote totals secret and have the caucusing completed by February 11th so their state would be covered (which it was). Of course, they probably never considered what would happen if a whole county cancelled or they didn't have enough time to collect solid data, or if people who were supposed to be collecting it all along failed to do so.

Webster and his crew didn't want to look like Nevada or Iowa so he made an announcement for Mitt Romney thinking that probably Mitt would win even with the cancellations. Also, he knows how the process really works where delegates are what counts so he didn't feel that accuracy in the straw poll mattered that much.

Webster's reaction to the way the story has developed and how GOP voters are angry will quickly lead to his resignation (or removal from his position if he's too stubborn to resign - I don't know him personally). Like all people in these organizations he felt that things weren't that bad so the story would die. He probably came up with most of the plan himself including the announcing, cutoff dates, etc. so he will go to the mat defending it. Ironically the media attention and his complete mishandling of it that he will be remembered for most.

So is that incompetence? I suppose so. I doubt there's much, if any, fraud. But clearly lots of dumb decisions, statements, and errors in the collection of data and planning. Although the rules are written to protect the established candidates, we're not facing Lex Luther in the GOP - more like the Keystone Kops.

GOP apologist not accepted.

[bcreps85]

GOP apologist not accepted.

In all fairness, I can understand that some of these people get in over their heads. What I can't accept is that this person is generally arguing that going into "CYA" mode and making bad decisions becomes acceptable at that point. It doesn't. If he had handled well, he would have said "Sorry, we messed up, we'll look into it", and then done so right quick in an open and transparent fashion. He didn't...instead he acted in a manner that made it look like he had something to hide.

Whether he intentionally did anything fraudulent or not no longer matters. He's fudged his statements and the results so bad that nobody will ever know for sure either way.

[fc2008]

Nice timing with the new numbers. Great headline for Romney right before the next round of voting tomorrow.