PPP MICHIGAN POLL :

[Monk]

Santorum 39 , Romney 24 , Paul 12

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/santorum-moves-ahead-in-michigan.html

[FreeTraveler]

If people in Michigan will drop this in the comments section of their local media's Santorum stories, it will stop the anti-evangelicals from supporting Santorum.

The Santorum Theocracy - Obama is not the worst we can do


http://tirelessagorist.blogspot.com/2012/02/santorum-theocracy.html

[cindy25]

if Romney loses MI he is finished; it will all fall apart

[Keith and stuff]

This is the one piece of good news from that article, "and the area around Lansing where Paul actually has an advantage at 30% to 27% for both Romney and Santorum."

There is terrible news in there for the future of the GOP. "His continued presence in the race is a boost to Romney though. 54% of his supporters would go to Santorum if he dropped out, compared to only 21% for Romney and 14% for Paul. Santorum's lead in a Newt-less field would expand to 21 points with him at 48% to 27% for Romney and 13% for Paul. So every day Gingrich stays in is a saving grace for Romney's hopes."

At least in MI, if Newt drops out, Santorum wins. That's likely true in some other states. Santorum is far worse than Romney when it comes to freedom. Santorum said“[I will] fight very strongly against libertarian influence within the Republican party and the conservative movement." Romney calls for cutting the federal workforce by 10%.

[Blue]

Isn't this Romney's home state? If so, I think this is good news. Romney will look terrible if he loses this one.

[EaSy]

Santorum has not been propertly vetted yet. Romney's $$$ will take care of this. Just wait. :)

[Jeremy]

Isn't this Romney's home state? If so, I think this is good news. Romney will look terrible if he loses this one. We don't want Romney to collapse though. A split vote is good.

And it's not his state, but it's his dad's state. (Who also ran for president and lost, by the way.)

[69360]

I try hard not to be a conspiracy theorist but why is PPP polling Santorum 10 points higher than anyone else in MI and nationally? PPP is a democratic firm and Santorum would get destroyed by Obama, just saying.

[Keith and stuff]

Isn't this Romney's home state? If so, I think this is good news. Romney will look terrible if he loses this one.

He was born there. He mostly lives in MA and to some extent NH. He has a mansion in CA but it is being expanded right now. His dad used to be the governor of MI. However, Santorum was a Senator from a border state (PA) so he has some connection, also.

[bcreps85]

This is going to change fast. He's had a bunch of small ups fueled by the media, but mark my words, Santorum will start to drop once he is vetted. Nobody really considered him a threat until he came out of nowhere suddenly...Romney and Gingrich will start to nail him, and Paul will probably be flying low in stealth mode while this is going on.

[Jeremy]

I try hard not to be a conspiracy theorist but why is PPP polling Santorum 10 points higher than anyone else in MI and nationally? PPP is a democratic firm and Santorum would get destroyed by Obama, just saying.

Because that's what the voters tell them?

PPP isn't rigging their polls. That would be a bad idea unless you want to go the way of Research 2000.

[Brett85]

PPP is the only polling organization that has Santorum anywhere near 15 points ahead of Romney nationally. Gallup still has Romney ahead of Santorum nationally. I don't know how PPP is getting their numbers.

[Keith and stuff]

I try hard not to be a conspiracy theorist but why is PPP polling Santorum 10 points higher than anyone else in MI and nationally? PPP is a democratic firm and Santorum would get destroyed by Obama, just saying.

"Santorum's benefiting from the open nature of Michigan's primary as well. He's only up by 12 points with actual Republican voters, but he has a 40-21 advantage with the Democrats and independents planning to vote that pushes his overall lead up to 15 points." Unfortunately, it looks like Independents and Democrats like Santorum the most in MI. I thought Paul will do well with them like in NH but I guess people think very differently about politics in MI.

[69360]

Yeah but PPP has Santorum that high nationally too. It just has a bad taste to it, it doesn't seem right. So many push polls in this election influencing the vote is maddening.

[69360]

However, Santorum was a Senator from a border state (PA) so he has some connection, also.

Huh? Forgetting Ohio and Indiana? They are kinda in between Michigan and PA. Even from Pittsburg it's a haul to Michigan. From my part of PA it's 14 hours to MI. There's no shared media markets either.

[jbuttell]

This is going to change fast. He's had a bunch of small ups fueled by the media, but mark my words, Santorum will start to drop once he is vetted. Nobody really considered him a threat until he came out of nowhere suddenly...Romney and Gingrich will start to nail him, and Paul will probably be flying low in stealth mode while this is going on.


Winning several states is what you call small ups? I don't disagree that it could all come crashing down, but newt and the romster are taking their sweet time to nail him.

[Keith and stuff]

Huh? Forgetting Ohio and Indiana? They are kinda in between Michigan and PA. Even from Pittsburg it's a haul to Michigan. From my part of PA it's 14 hours to MI. There's no shared media markets either.

LOL. Yeah, I was totally wrong about that! You are correct, OH is b/t the 2 states. Part of PA is like the Midwest but I don't even think it is officially part of the Midwest.

[EBounding]

Santorum winning Michigan would be very dangerous, IMO. It'd show he can win a real primary with delegates in a "moderate" state. It would cement him as the "Anti-Romney" and maybe even the nominee.

[BUSHLIED]

This is going to change fast. He's had a bunch of small ups fueled by the media, but mark my words, Santorum will start to drop once he is vetted. Nobody really considered him a threat until he came out of nowhere suddenly...Romney and Gingrich will start to nail him, and Paul will probably be flying low in stealth mode while this is going on.

Everyone keeps saying this BUT I don't see him getting vetted....he has now won 4 contests.

[joshnorris14]

Santorum winning Michigan would be very dangerous, IMO. It'd show he can win a real primary with delegates in a "moderate" state. It would cement him as the "Anti-Romney" and maybe even the nominee.

Ｗｈｏ　ｃａｒｅｓ? We aren't going to win outright, we need a brokered convention. And for that to happen, we need someone to block as many delegates from Romney as possible.

[1836]

I'm getting slightly concerned that Santorum has real momentum which could topple Romney. I doubt it, but you see a poll like this and it's really a shocking possible result.

If Santorum won Arizona and Michigan, it's all over folks; Romney would collapse on Super Tuesday and freaking Rick Santorum would be the nominee.

Highly unlikely that happens, but my goodness, the fact that it's even possible at this point gives me the chills. As bad as Romney is, Santorum is worse.

[bcreps85]

Everyone keeps saying this BUT I don't see him getting vetted....he has now won 4 contests.

He's not getting vetted because the media hasn't been doing it. Newt and Mitt saw no need to do it because he wasn't a real threat, but rather another tool to siphon votes from Paul. Now he's a threat. If the MSM doesn't vet him, look for Newt and Mitt to destroy him.

[69360]

I'm getting slightly concerned that Santorum has real momentum which could topple Romney. I doubt it, but you see a poll like this and it's really a shocking possible result.

If Santorum won Arizona and Michigan, it's all over folks; Romney would collapse on Super Tuesday and freaking Rick Santorum would be the nominee.

Highly unlikely that happens, but my goodness, the fact that it's even possible at this point gives me the chills. As bad as Romney is, Santorum is worse.

If Santorum wins MI and AZ, Obama can start making plans for the next 4 years in office, the GOP is done as an party.

If Santorum is the nominee and Ron won't run 3rd party I am going to be pissed as all hell.

[EBounding]

Ｗｈｏ　ｃａｒｅｓ? We aren't going to win outright, we need a brokered convention. And for that to happen, we need someone to block as many delegates from Romney as possible.

There will be no brokered convention if Santorum won Michigan and Arizona decisively and continued to sweep through Super Tuesday. He can win Arizona, but him winning Michigan too would be dangerous.

[AngryCanadian]

If Santorum wins MI and AZ, Obama can start making plans for the next 4 years in office, the GOP is done as an party.

Yup the GOP is and will be finished if people vote for Santorum just because his young :rolleyes: if thats the solo reason The GOP is done.

[1836]

If Santorum wins MI and AZ, Obama can start making plans for the next 4 years in office, the GOP is done as an party.

I would agree wholeheartedly; but the point would be, Santorum as nominee destroys the party.

I mean, maybe that ends up being good for us. But time will tell. I just can't stand Santorum.

[69360]

I'm never one to make demands, but if this is real and not a push poll and Santorum starts pulling away from the field, Ron really has to start an independent run. It's scary to think of Santorum with the nuke codes. I want to live.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Santorum becoming the nominee is one rare scenario under which RP would be crazy not to consider running independent. It just has too much potential to break into the debates, and from there, who knows.

Any moderate and independent with a brain in their head would go to Paul. Santorum attracts no one outside a small clique of hyper-religious conservatives.

[GopBlackList]

It is not like Santorum is not getting vetted. He doesn't have any major skeltons in his closet that would scare non-political minded folk. Any skeltons he has is esoteric to the majority of the voters. Like someone said I do think think the Santorum momentum is real and with money he can probably organize better than RP and Romney.

[joshnorris14]

There will be no brokered convention if Santorum won Michigan and Arizona decisively and continued to sweep through Super Tuesday. He can win Arizona, but him winning Michigan too would be dangerous.

Ｈｅ'ｓ　ｎｏｔ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｓｗｅｅｐ　ｔｈｒｏｕｇｈ　ｓｕｐｅｒ　Ｔｕｅｓｄａｙ.　Ｈｅ　 ｉｓｎ'ｔ　ｏｎ　ｅｎｏｕｇｈ　ｂａｌｌｏｔs. It'll be a battle between him and Romney in primary states and we'll get the delegates in the caucus states.

[Keith and stuff]

Any moderate and independent with a brain in their head would go to Paul. Santorum attracts no one outside a small clique of hyper-religious conservatives.

I hope that happens after he is vetted. What you say was true in NH but according to this MI poll, Santorum does really well with both Democrats and Independents.

[Brett85]

I'm getting slightly concerned that Santorum has real momentum which could topple Romney. I doubt it, but you see a poll like this and it's really a shocking possible result.

If Santorum won Arizona and Michigan, it's all over folks; Romney would collapse on Super Tuesday and freaking Rick Santorum would be the nominee.

Highly unlikely that happens, but my goodness, the fact that it's even possible at this point gives me the chills. As bad as Romney is, Santorum is worse.

I agree. There's no possible way I could stay in the Republican Party if Rick Santorum somehow won the nomination.

[wgadget]

Wasn't Romney's daddy the governor of MI?

[CTRattlesnake]

Anyone care to explain how this makes sense?


but (Santorum) he has a 40-21 advantage with the Democrats and independents planning to vote that pushes his overall lead up to 15 points

[Butchie]

He was born there. He mostly lives in MA and to some extent NH. He has a mansion in CA but it is being expanded right now. His dad used to be the governor of MI. However, Santorum was a Senator from a border state (PA) so he has some connection, also.

Ron used to go to school here, but he doesn't play it up much, shameless promotion technique I know, but hey, whatever works.

[liveandletlive]

not even mad no more...any country that has Rick Santorum winning anything has series issues beyond that of our economic woes.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Santorum becoming the nominee is one rare scenario under which RP would be crazy not to consider running independent. It just has too much potential to break into the debates, and from there, who knows.

Any moderate and independent with a brain in their head would go to Paul. Santorum attracts no one outside a small clique of hyper-religious conservatives.

While we may think that the case, Santorum has:

1. been able to aggressively attack Romney and Gingrich on Romneycare and the individual mandate. This is something that Ron is either unwilling or unable to do during the debates.

2. been able to own the contraception issue.

3. been able to take individual and states' rights issues (that should be in Ron's wheelhouse) and make them his.

4. been able to spin support for bailouts into support for the "common man" (blue collar Democrats that supported Reagan).

5. As long as he avoids foreign policy questions (bomb everyone into submission), he steals Ron's support outside of his libertarian base.

Hate to say it, but Santorum knocked his Meet the Depressed interview out of the park yesterday.

There is a reason that Romney was the "announced" winner in Maine. If Romney lost another state, Santorum would beat Romney in Michigan by 20+ points. And, if Romney loses Arizona, it's over folks. Although, I'm pretty confident Ron could take Alaska, Idaho, the Dakotas, and Montana if he were up against Santorum alone.

[BKom]

He was born there. He mostly lives in MA and to some extent NH. He has a mansion in CA but it is being expanded right now. His dad used to be the governor of MI. However, Santorum was a Senator from a border state (PA) so he has some connection, also.

PA is a border state of Michigan? I don't think so.

[RPit]

This is not surprising. Gingrich is done, Santorum has been recognized as the anti-romney. We can be next only if we play electability ads and make people believe we are electable. If not, even after Santorum is vetted either the vote will go back to Gingrich or stay with Santorum saying 'heck, they're all the same so I'll just stick with Santorum' out of frustration.

If Ron wants to get this vote after Santorum is vetted, he has to play electability, focus on Obama, etc. otherwise forget about it.

[matt0611]

It completely baffles me how Santorum is doing this well in a northern state like Michigan. Romney should be dominating no?

[69360]

This is really a mess isn't it? Gingrich is nowhere to be seen lately, Romney is in trouble. I never even imagined a scenario where it might come down to Santorum and Paul.

[James Madison]

This is not surprising. Gingrich is done, Santorum has been recognized as the anti-romney. We can be next only if we play electability ads and make people believe we are electable. If not, even after Santorum is vetted either the vote will go back to Gingrich or stay with Santorum saying 'heck, they're all the same so I'll just stick with Santorum' out of frustration.

If Ron wants to get this vote after Santorum is vetted, he has to play electability, focus on Obama, etc. otherwise forget about it.

Not gonna happen. We get killed head-to-head against Romney. Face it, people, the GOP doesn't want Ron Paul.

[GopBlackList]

While we may think that the case, Santorum has:

1. been able to aggressively attack Romney and Gingrich on Romneycare and the individual mandate. This is something that Ron is either unwilling or unable to do during the debates.

2. been able to own the contraception issue.

3. been able to take individual and states' rights issues (that should be in Ron's wheelhouse) and make them his.

4. been able to spin support for bailouts into support for the "common man" (blue collar Democrats that supported Reagan).

5. As long as he avoids foreign policy questions (bomb everyone into submission), he steals Ron's support outside of his libertarian base.

Hate to say it, but Santorum knocked his Meet the Depressed interview out of the park yesterday.

There is a reason that Romney was the "announced" winner in Maine. If Romney lost another state, Santorum would beat Romney in Michigan by 20+ points. And, if Romney loses Arizona, it's over folks. Although, I'm pretty confident Ron could take Alaska, Idaho, the Dakotas, and Montana if he were up against Santorum alone.

THIS

[BKom]

There is a reason that Romney was the "announced" winner in Maine. If Romney lost another state, Santorum would beat Romney in Michigan by 20+ points. And, if Romney loses Arizona, it's over folks. Although, I'm pretty confident Ron could take Alaska, Idaho, the Dakotas, and Montana if he were up against Santorum alone.

Ron would not take even one of those states in a two man race with Santorum. The only way Ron will take any state is to go camp out in that state and start having town halls by the dozens and shaking hands and asking for people's votes. If he does that, he still has a chance. Anyone think he'll actually do that?

[sailingaway]

If people in Michigan will drop this in the comments section of their local media's Santorum stories, it will stop the anti-evangelicals from supporting Santorum.

The Santorum Theocracy - Obama is not the worst we can do


http://tirelessagorist.blogspot.com/2012/02/santorum-theocracy.html

I wouldn't do anything that hits at evangelicals, they will only think he's the only one sympathetic to their issues. I would point out that in 1994 Santorum ran on a platform including an mandate that everyone in the nation buy health insurance...and that he took the most money from lobbyists his last year in the Senate of anyone in congress and could be relied on to vote for big government programs that funded special interests such as no child left behind and the bridge to no where.

[Brett85]

It completely baffles me how Santorum is doing this well in a northern state like Michigan. Romney should be dominating no?

Santorum is popular in the Midwest since he opposes free trade.

[CTRattlesnake]

Ron would not take even one of those states in a two man race with Santorum. The only way Ron will take any state is to go camp out in that state and start having town halls by the dozens and shaking hands and asking for people's votes. If he does that, he still has a chance. Anyone think he'll actually do that?

Nope, but thats why we love him

[John F Kennedy III]

I try hard not to be a conspiracy theorist but why is PPP polling Santorum 10 points higher than anyone else in MI and nationally? PPP is a democratic firm and Santorum would get destroyed by Obama, just saying.

Because they like to set the narrative early and then make the vote count reflect that. And only Newt, Romney or Santorum are allowed to skew the narrative without them having them having to count the votes in secret locations, spend 3 days recounting or cancelling whole caucuses.

[Keith and stuff]

Not gonna happen. We get killed head-to-head against Romney. Face it, people, the GOP doesn't want Ron Paul.

It depends where you live. Republicans in VA, for example, tend to not like Ron Paul. However, no need to give up hope. Remember these wonderful results?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.php?567-Ron-Paul%E2%80%99s-6-towns-over-40

Ron Paul’s 6 towns over 40%

Here is a little motivation. I know some people are feeling down. I know some people are feeling bad. I know some people are frustrated. Don’t feel down. We are doing amazing things. We have come so far and will go so much further!

Ron Paul took 40% or more of the vote in 6 New Hampshire towns. In New Hampshire, there were 30 candidates in the race. There are currently 4 candidates in the race for the Republican nomination. Here is how the candidates did in the 6 New Hampshire towns.

Millsfield
Ron Paul 53%
Romney 13%
Gingrich 13%
Santorum negligible

Richmond
Ron Paul 48%
Romney 22%
Santorum 10%
Gingrich negligible

Benton
Ron Paul 45%
Romney 30%
Gingrich 11%
Santorum 9%

Alexandria
Ron Paul 43%
Romney 24%
Santorum 8%
Gingrich negligible

Stewartstown
Ron Paul 43%
Romney 19%
Santorum 13%
Gingrich negligible

Warren
Ron Paul 40%
Romney 20%
Gingrich 13%
Santorum negligible

[gerryb]

I try hard not to be a conspiracy theorist but why is PPP polling Santorum 10 points higher than anyone else in MI and nationally? PPP is a democratic firm and Santorum would get destroyed by Obama, just saying.
+1

Does anyone wonder why Obama is pushing the contraceptive issues?

It's a softball to whip up Catholic support for Santorum

[James Madison]

Unfortunately, NH Republicans are not the rank-and-file voters of the GOP. Virginia is full of neo-cons, as are the majority of 'Red States'.

[BKom]

Nope, but thats why we love him

I hope that was sarcasm. Because it's his worst quality. It's one thing to talk to adoring crowds at colleges. It's a completely other thing to go to townhalls of dozens of people or maybe a hundred or two hundred people, who may be skeptical of you, and look them in the eye and convince them that liberty is possible and you're the guy to do it. That's the guy we need. And that's the guy I'll work for until I drop.

[RonPaul101.com]

Maybe its working, maybe the MSM is right. I can't believe how many posts I see here saying, "Oh no I hope Ricky doesn't topple Romney..." Since when do we like Romney any better than the rest? If Mitt has 100 delegate (give or take) it wouldn't be the end of the world for someone else (preferrably Paul) to win some delegates to even the count a bit. If Ricky over takes Mitt in delegates then he will get clobbered by the other three candidates, but rooting for Mitt over the minor-leaguer Santorun in MI is just wrong and exactly what they want us to think. Like the rest of America, the establishment wants even Paul supporters to think Mitt isn't so bad afterall.

[CTRattlesnake]

I hope that was sarcasm. Because it's his worst quality. It's one thing to talk to adoring crowds at colleges. It's a completely other thing to go to townhalls of dozens of people or maybe a hundred or two hundred people, who may be skeptical of you, and look them in the eye and convince them that liberty is possible and you're the guy to do it. That's the guy we need. And that's the guy I'll work for until I drop.

You knew what you were getting when you signed up to support RP. I'm not saying that what he does is right, to the contrary, he needs to change his delivery....but I dont think he will. The man is 76 years old, he does things his way and that’s that, we can complain all we want but its not going to change.

[gerryb]

If Santorum is the nominee and Ron won't run 3rd party I am going to be pissed as all hell.

Just shut it already.

Ron WILL NOT run 3rd party. Did you vote for GOP Committee in the last election? If not, stop complaining about the party, you're part of the problem.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

+1

Does anyone wonder why Obama is pushing the contraceptive issues?

It's a softball to whip up Catholic support for Santorum

Yeah, but WHERE IS RON ON THE ISSUE? Why has he not said anything? This is a PERFECT OPPORTUNITY to push for his views, as it is THE SAME AS MAINSTREAM REPUBLICANS'. Romney can't take a strong position, because of what he allowed in Massachusetts. Ron is getting out-Pauled by Santorum.

[69360]

Just shut it already.

Ron WILL NOT run 3rd party. Did you vote for GOP Committee in the last election? If not, stop complaining about the party, you're part of the problem.

What the heck? You wouldn't want Ron to run 3rd party against Rick Santorum? Come on...

[69360]

Holy crap this looks to be real. Santorum is up to 30 in the Gallup daily now. Romney is 32.

I think we are witnessing the end of the GOP.

[RPit]

Not gonna happen. We get killed head-to-head against Romney. Face it, people, the GOP doesn't want Ron Paul.

Yes because we are unelectable. So we will get killed. No one is going to vote for an unelectable candidate. So unless we change that image neither will be become the anti-Romney nor will we ever beat anyone 1v1. Not just Romney.

That is why in all cases the campaign needs to focus on electability. Only then can we do good against anyone 1v1, and only then can we even become the anti-Romney. its very simple.

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

Ron would not take even one of those states in a two man race with Santorum. The only way Ron will take any state is to go camp out in that state and start having town halls by the dozens and shaking hands and asking for people's votes. If he does that, he still has a chance. Anyone think he'll actually do that?

BKom,

Ron don't camp.

We've been pleading for weeks, months, and--as you pointed out in your posts after the Maine results--literally years.
All we've accomplished by posting here is to provide more fodder for poster Babylon's amusement.

What's amazing is that it isn't just the posters on Ron Paul forums. I explain things such as how a real candidate gets down in the trenches and mixes it up with the people to my libertarian Ron Paul supporting relatives and friends--here in Nevada and in other states--and I get the same defensive B.S. responses:

"He's old."
"Maybe he needs to rest."
"You don't know everything that's going on."
"Don't be so critical."
"He's doing everything he can."

I haven't torn up my delegate sheet yet. But, there's no getting around the simple fact of life that libertarians are lazy, stupid, and completely lacking in imagination and vision in the same percentages as the general population.

[smithtg]

I live in MI and havent met a santorum supporter. But as others have said the 'silent' majority is looking for a mittens alternative and its not Ron Paul. yes these people are stupid, but Frothy has "values" to them and that is why they will vote for him (dont mind he want to bomb every Arab country that makes him crap crooked)

[BKom]

BKom,

Ron don't camp.

We've been pleading for weeks, months, and--as you pointed out in your posts after the Maine results--literally years.
All we've accomplished by posting here is to provide more fodder for poster Babylon's amusement.

What's amazing is that it isn't just the posters on Ron Paul forums. I explain things such as how a real candidate gets down in the trenches and mixes it up with the people to my libertarian Ron Paul supporting relatives and friends--here in Nevada and in other states--and I get the same defensive B.S. responses:

"He's old."
"Maybe he needs to rest."
"You don't know everything that's going on."
"Don't be so critical."
"He's doing everything he can."

I haven't torn up my delegate sheet yet. But, there's no getting around the simple fact of life that libertarians are lazy, stupid, and completely lacking in imagination and vision in the same percentages as the general population.

Yeah, Wolfgang. I haven't torn up my delegate sheet yet, either, even though I was this close the night of the Maine wimp out. But it's sitting on the counter right next to the scissors. I will probably still go to the county convention. But I will not travel to Reno on my own dime to fight for the candidacy of a man who won't fight for it himself. And getting out there and meeting people in town halls is the only effective way to fight for it now. That turd Santorum has stolen the spotlight in this election by outworking everyone else. Because if you listen to what he actually says, rather than to how and where and how often he says it, the horror is almost unimaginable.

[BUSHLIED]

Santorum's polling IN MI is certainly surprising to us. His support among Democrats and Independents is even more surprising.

To me, Santorum harkens back to the not so long ago days of George Bush, a neo-conservative. Romney and Gingrich are no neo-cons imo. Santorum's message still appeals to the base of the GOP which still appearas to dominate the GOP. Although, one confusing aspect would be the McCain nomination of '08 since I saw him more of a moderate hawk, but McCain didn't play up social conservatism. Santorum's rise will take away the possibilities of Brokered convention if he wins states that we otherwise would give to Romney. As the PPP poll suggests Newt is the X factor since his support disproportionately goes to Santorum.

Other than maintaining the caucus state delegate strategy, what is the campaign going to do NOW to expand it base? Does any think the campaign is still gearing up or are they gearing down? Cutting staff, not setting up offices, new ads? My since is that the campaign is idling? One can only hope Ron eventually wins Maine and tries to play that up as much as possible.

[69360]

Pew just put out a national poll with Santorum leading as well. He's at 30 in theirs, Romney is 28.

This is scary stuff.

[SneakyFrenchSpy]

It's pretty transparent to me that Dems in MI are throwing their weight behind Frothy because he's the most un-electable and unsavory character of the lot to their interests. In the general, these people will not vote under any circumstances for an anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-war nut-job like him.

It's quite clever on their part and it seems to be working. Think back to 2008, if Obama and Clinton were not involved in their own fight, the left would have tried to push Sam Brownback on the Republican ticket.

[69360]

It's pretty transparent to me that Dems in MI are throwing their weight behind Frothy because he's the most un-electable and unsavory character of the lot to their interests. In the general, these people will not vote under any circumstances for an anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-war nut-job like him.

It's quite clever on their part and it seems to be working.

It's not just Michigan anymore. Santorum is leading 2 national polls and 2 points back in another.

[TAnn]

Yeah, Wolfgang. I haven't torn up my delegate sheet yet, either, even though I was this close the night of the Maine wimp out. But it's sitting on the counter right next to the scissors. I will probably still go to the county convention. But I will not travel to Reno on my own dime to fight for the candidacy of a man who won't fight for it himself. And getting out there and meeting people in town halls is the only effective way to fight for it now. That turd Santorum has stolen the spotlight in this election by outworking everyone else. Because if you listen to what he actually says, rather than to how and where and how often he says it, the horror is almost unimaginable.

I agree with you to the extent that I feel more needs to be done about the ongoing election fraud that is taking place in this primary(legal action) however the more it happens, the more blatant it gets. Now just about everyone with any grey matter at all has become aware of the lengths the GOP will go to, to steal this nomination from Ron Paul. It won't be long before the public outrage will do the job and expose these charlatans for what they really are. I expect legal action will not be far behind. Ultimately, it is up to the people who have been robbed of their votes to take action against the GOP.

[pauliticalfan]

+1

Does anyone wonder why Obama is pushing the contraceptive issues?

It's a softball to whip up Catholic support for Santorum

That Obama, always whipping up some Santorum.

[KingNothing]

Pew just put out a national poll with Santorum leading as well. He's at 30 in theirs, Romney is 28.

This is scary stuff.

If the GOP nominates Rick Santorum, at least we'll be able to run Rand Paul against a non-incumbent in 2016, because there's no way Obama would be unseated in November.

[Student Of Paulism]

Santorum winning Michigan would be very dangerous, IMO. It'd show he can win a real primary with delegates in a "moderate" state. It would cement him as the "Anti-Romney" and maybe even the nominee.

Yea, i didn't wanna really speak on that too much, but it's creeping closer to that reality, especially after him winning 3 states in 1 night. Totally put him in a new level after that happened. Winning MI would hurt Romney badly in his own home state. But i don't like what is shaping up with Santorum. He doesnt have any baggage like Gingrich, and Gingrich is losing a ton of steam lately and his support is going to Rick. Some Romney support is also going to Rick. As for the Party itself, they really don't want Newt as the nominee because of his awful history, and they really have never wanted Romney due to him being so slick and overpolished. Even the party knows how fake he is, not to mention his endless flip flopping and being on the same side Obama is on.

Rick appeals to a lot of religious factions, which is primarily why he is doing so well. That alone tends to 'get the word out'. He has no baggage or any crazy past like Newt so he is a 'great' alternative for the sheep out there. Ofc, there is Ron Paul, but ya know, his FP sucks, he is too old, Bill Oreilly said he is crazy, so ya know, that's that :rolleyes: I agree though, i really don't like where this is going. Santorum is pretty much dominating the whole portion of the South, and getting some buzz on the East coast states now. Blah...so surreal this idiot got this far, still cant believe it at times.

[BKom]

I agree with you to the extent that I feel more needs to be done about the ongoing election fraud that is taking place in this primary(legal action) however the more it happens, the more blatant it gets. Now just about everyone with any grey matter at all has become aware of the lengths the GOP will go to, to steal this nomination from Ron Paul. It won't be long before the public outrage will do the job and expose these charlatans for what they really are. I expect legal action will not be far behind. Ultimately, it is up to the people who have been robbed of their votes to take action against the GOP.

You actually do not agree with me. Election fraud is possible, but pretty far down the list of why Ron isn't doing better. Most of the reason is that he's not campaigning effectively. Every one of those candidates is out traveling the country, meeting people and asking for their votes. Ron, on the other hand, is setting up in caucus states and doing relatively little campaigning himself. The theory was that caucus states will be easier to win because of organization. Now that this strategy has been shown to fail almost uniformly, it appears the campaign is rolling up its tent and taking it easy when they should be putting their foot on the gas and putting the candidate out there at every possible whistlestop in upcoming states.

So, no, you do not agree with me. Fraud can be overcome with hard work, but the hard work is not being done. You have to force everyone to see fraud if it exists and the only way to do that is to push up your poll numbers to the point that it would be obvious. And Ron and the campaign have not done this.

[floridasun1983]

It will be interesting to see how Mitt reacts to this. I would expect him to bring out his big guns and start firing everything he's got at Santorum in the next few days. It worked against Newt, but as others have pointed out, Santorum doesn't have a lot of major baggage.

As for our candidate and campaign, well, I can't add to what others have already said. He has to actually campaign.

[GopBlackList]

I think this whole voter election fraud claims and blame the media is getting REALLY OLD. We need to man up and own up responsibility especially the campaign. RP needs to be a lot more aggressive and go Chicago on these fools.

[Adam West]

I think this whole voter election fraud claims and blame the media is getting REALLY OLD. We need to man up and own up responsibility especially the campaign. RP needs to be a lot more aggressive and go Chicago on these fools.

I'm a 9 year former Chicago'n, and I agree with your statement, but I reck'n a little "Chicago" on the GOP heirarchy would not go astray...

[Adam West]

How about a St. Valentines Day Massacre?

[seawolf]

Bkom I agree with your posts on this thread 100%. I have been expressing the same views, but have been told by the Senior Moderator to contact the Campaign directly and stop posting this view.

Anyway, you are dead on right!!

[joshnorris14]

Bkom I agree with your posts on this thread 100%. I have been expressing the same views, but have been told by the Senior Moderator to contact the Campaign directly and stop posting this view.

Anyway, you are dead on right!!

The Senior Moderators hate dissent. I was banned for posting about why we needed a November 5th moneybomb instead of a stupid November 11th Veteran's day moneybomb (That worked out very well, right?)

Regardless, he isn't right. The campaign set up shop in Caucus states because those states we could dominate delegate-wise, and we haven't failed, we have succeeded.

[Adam West]

The Senior Moderators hate dissent. I was banned for posting about why we needed a November 5th moneybomb instead of a stupid November 11th Veteran's day moneybomb (That worked out very well, right?)

Regardless, he isn't right. The campaign set up shop in Caucus states because those states we could dominate delegate-wise, and we haven't failed, we have succeeded.

This may be true, but we are attempting to entice new supporters into the fold and keep morale high with existing supporters/donators. A victory or two would go a long way...

[69360]

The Senior Moderators hate dissent. I was banned for posting about why we needed a November 5th moneybomb instead of a stupid November 11th Veteran's day moneybomb (That worked out very well, right?)

Regardless, he isn't right. The campaign set up shop in Caucus states because those states we could dominate delegate-wise, and we haven't failed, we have succeeded.

Wonderful, we have all these delegates pending from the caucus states. Great, it's probably true. The problem is that the media reports on winners of states. That's what the average voter sees, who won what state. Then they vote for who's winning. The caucus states hold their conventions after the winner take all states have voted. So those delegates won't make a difference after Ron gets run over in the winner take all primaries because he has no momentum.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Ｗｈｏ　ｃａｒｅｓ? We aren't going to win outright, we need a brokered convention. And for that to happen, we need someone to block as many delegates from Romney as possible.

We need to make sure no one drops as long as possible. Newt needs some positive news or he will drop soon.

[joshnorris14]

Wonderful, we have all these delegates pending from the caucus states. Great, it's probably true. The problem is that the media reports on winners of states. That's what the average voter sees, who won what state. Then they vote for who's winning. The caucus states hold their conventions after the winner take all states have voted. So those delegates won't make a difference after Ron gets run over in the winner take all primaries because he has no momentum.

This shows a lot of ignorance to how delegates affect the race. 1)　Ｔｈｅ　ＷＴＡ　ｓｔａｔｅｓ　ｄｏｎ'ｔ　ｓｔａｒｔ　ｏｃｃｕｒｉｎｇ　ｕｎｔｉｌ　Ａｐｒｉｌ 　１ｓｔ,　ｉｎ　ｍｏｓｔ　ｃａｓｅｓ.　Ａｎｄ　Ｓｔａｔｅ　ｃｏｎｖｅｎｔｉｏｎｓ　ｉｎ　ｔｈｏｓ ｅ　ｃａｕｃｕｓｅｓ　ｈａｐｐｅｎ　ｉｎ　Ａｐｒｉｌ　ａｎｄ　Ｍａｙ,　ｗｉｔｈ　ａ　ｆｅｗ　ｉｎ　 Ｊｕｎｅ.　Ｔｈｏｓｅ　ｄｅｌｅｇａｔｅｓ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｏｂｖｉｏｕｓｌｙ　ｍａｋｅ　ａ　ｄｉｆｆｅｒ ｅｎｃｅ　ｉｆ　ｎｏ　ｃａｎｄｉｄａｔｅ　ｈａｓ　ａｍａｓｓｅｄ　１,１４４,　ｗｈｉｃｈ　ａｔ　ｔ ｈｅ　ｍｏｍｅｎｔ　ｌｏｏｋｓ　ｌｉｋｅ　ａ　ｄｉｓｔｉｎｃｔ　ｐｏｓｓｉｂｉｌｉｔｙ. 　

[alucard13mmfmj]

Look at it this way guys.. If Santorum wins, GOP will lose the election. We will be there to pick up the pieces when most of the GOP imploded and is even more dissapointed =D...........

[69360]

Look at it this way guys.. If Santorum wins, GOP will lose the election. We will be there to pick up the pieces when most of the GOP imploded and is even more dissapointed =D...........

Unless we are all dead or indefinitely detained.

[alucard13mmfmj]

I doubt they can kill a few million ron paul supporters or have enough jails and FEMA camps to house a few million of us.

I do understand though... The voters are voting to their graves... also our graves too.

[D.A.S.]

I think you all are putting a little too much faith in Santorum. Mitt = unlimited money, George H. W. Bush's friend, and he has worked for 4 years for his second shot at the presidency. Think Mitt will just roll up his tent and go home?

I see Santorum's rise as a good thing for us. It's just like Newt's rise before, and people here were saying EXACT same things during Newt's rise as they are right now. Guess what: Newt's rise helped us continue the battle. Just like Santorum's rise will help us continue the battle. It's still early, and if it wasn't for Newt or Rick, Mitt would be running away with the nomination and the delegate count from the primaries.

Remember what Ron always said - diluting establishment vote works in our favor, so we should hope all of our GOP contenders go a long way while we continue to do what we're doing :-)

The Santorum wave, too, shall pass. Mitt and Ron have been the most steady, weathered the ups and downs, and both are the key forces in the nomination battle.

[Student Of Paulism]

You actually do not agree with me. Election fraud is possible, but pretty far down the list of why Ron isn't doing better. Most of the reason is that he's not campaigning effectively. Every one of those candidates is out traveling the country, meeting people and asking for their votes. Ron, on the other hand, is setting up in caucus states and doing relatively little campaigning himself. The theory was that caucus states will be easier to win because of organization. Now that this strategy has been shown to fail almost uniformly, it appears the campaign is rolling up its tent and taking it easy when they should be putting their foot on the gas and putting the candidate out there at every possible whistlestop in upcoming states.

So, no, you do not agree with me. Fraud can be overcome with hard work, but the hard work is not being done. You have to force everyone to see fraud if it exists and the only way to do that is to push up your poll numbers to the point that it would be obvious. And Ron and the campaign have not done this.

+Rep, especially to your last piece there. I have said that same thing myself here now and then. Yes, it is obvious there is some 'funny stuff' and outright fraud going on, but i have stated many times that if you have large enough leads and enough external support pulling for you, they won't be able to swing it enough. It's like you have 20 people, and you see 19 of them saying 'im gonna vote for this guy'. Voting time comes, and then the results are switched. Everyone would obviously be like 'wtf' and it would never be believable. But Ron is never far out in front enough. Now to be fair, you wont be able to do this in EVERY state, but Ron definitely had his chances. Ron and Camp's biggest blunders, imo, and i am sure many will agree with me, is NOT capitalizing on MOMENTUM. Two huge examples:

1. After NH, gets endless media coverage, more than f'ing Mitt ffs, after his great speech. Even some haters in the MSM even giving him props. Gets good bumps in SC---Ron goes home to TX.

2. Yet again, after a nice showing in MN, same thing, doesn't take advantage and head right to ME, instead lets Romney go up there, Ron goes back to TX for 3 days. Just terrible decisions. As you said, they are not hitting the gas pedal properly. To add to that, they are hitting at the WRONG times too. When you have great momentum, THAT is when you stamp on it, NOT when you are down. Reviving your chances in a political race don't happen much. As we have seen with the other candidates in the race from months ago, once they are up and come down, they stay down (save for Newt who is backed by the NWO Elitist Illuminaries...yes, i know that sounds 'weird', but he is and always has been because he is pure evil).

So no, i dont agree with some saying 'he has done enough', or the 'camp knowns what its doing'. In some areas, yea, in others? Not even close. When was the last time Ron did a good interactive Q and A? Hell, last time i seen it was in NH, when he spoke at a TH. Remember how great that was? The guy asking about NDAA, the one women asking him 'something about Health Care' and Ron was very forthright, saying he was 'gonna challenge her'. Then the guy who said his congressman lied to him about NDAA and was pissed off about it, and the whole crowd laughed along and all cheered him on? Remember that? Uh huh...how much of that have we seen since? This is where Santardum is driving it home. He interacts with people, and that is why he is tearing it up right now. It's an undeniable fact.

Wanna know something even more annoying? Was listening to AJ the other night. Had a caller talking about how he was trying to sway a Rick supporter to Ron and how close it was, but it's always that 'one thing'. I too, have seen many Rick supporters say they like Ron a lot. Seen a ton say that back in IA. But they never wanna make that leap to him. Welp, there a lot of reasons why that is, and the camp just isnt doing enough about it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb82qeK-oCQ

Listen from 5:43 to 9:10 ...Really depressing to see voters who like him but are too stupid to see past the facade. Just like the guy here, some of them don't even like Santorum much, yet still play along. So pathetic.

[Paul or not at all]

IT IS AN OPEN PRIMARY, LETS WIN THIS!!!!

[jkob]

I think we all severely underestimated how batshit insane this country is

[Jeffster]

Santorum attracts no one outside a small clique of hyper-religious conservatives.

Obviously, these Michigan polls are saying otherwise.


Anyone care to explain how this makes sense?

Santorum has successfully positioned himself as the "blue collar" candidate. It's not surprising, he won 2 terms in the US Senate doing the same thing. States like Michigan and Pennsylvania have a lot of socially conservative, often Catholic, "Reagan Democrat" people who want to vote for the one who's "looking out for the little guy." Santorum has made a consistent effort to appeal to just this demographic, and when you add that to the "war hawks" and the traditional Republican social conservatives, he is amassing a powerful coalition of people, and people with much more enthusiasm and likelihood to vote than the Romney country club types.

[abruzz0]

What's kinda sad but funny at the same time is...I think people around the country actually LIKE Santorum. A lot of people are looking at him and thinking..."Oh my God, thank Jesus for Santorum, he's gonna restore family values and Christian beliefs in this country, it's so wonderful. He's the anti-Obama in every way!"

When in reality Froth is just a hardcore, blood-thirsty warmonger of delusional theocratic proportion that wants to use the power monopoly of government to monitor every facet of your daily life to ensure that it's "moral" while the gov't itself can rape and pillage across the planet. It's absolutely sickening how brainwashed mainline evangelical America is.

[69360]

Santorum has successfully positioned himself as the "blue collar" candidate. It's not surprising, he won 2 terms in the US Senate doing the same thing. States like Michigan and Pennsylvania have a lot of socially conservative, often Catholic, "Reagan Democrat" people who want to vote for the one who's "looking out for the little guy." Santorum has made a consistent effort to appeal to just this demographic, and when you add that to the "war hawks" and the traditional Republican social conservatives, he is amassing a powerful coalition of people, and people with much more enthusiasm and likelihood to vote than the Romney country club types.

Except we don't like him here and voted him out by one of the largest margins in recent history.

[Mister Grieves]

I think we all severely underestimated how batshit insane this country isIf someone dwells on it, it is a sobering thought.

[abruzz0]

Except we don't like him here and voted him out by one of the largest margins in recent history.

Which means RP should stomp his guts out in the Penn primary, right? Or will they flock to Romney or Newt? I'm not really sure, because in '08 only McCain and Ron were on the ballot there, and Ron got over 120,000 votes...which was the most he received from any other state, including Cali.

[69360]

Which means RP should stomp his guts out in the Penn primary, right? Or will they flock to Romney or Newt? I'm not really sure, because in '08 only McCain and Ron were on the ballot there, and Ron got over 120,000 votes...which was the most he received from any other state, including Cali.


Yeah it's hard to say. Ron did really well here last time, but like you said McCain had it in the bag by then. I see lots of support on the ground, everytime I go out I see signs and bumnperstickers for Ron. I haven't spotted any other candidate signs or stickers yet.

[Jeffster]

What's kinda sad but funny at the same time is...I think people around the country actually LIKE Santorum.

Yep. I like him too, he comes across as a very likeable guy for the most part. And motivated by principle rather than polls. It's not that sad or funny to see that people would like a guy like that.


When in reality Froth is just a hardcore, blood-thirsty warmonger of delusional theocratic proportion that wants to use the power monopoly of government to monitor every facet of your daily life to ensure that it's "moral" while the gov't itself can rape and pillage across the planet. It's absolutely sickening how brainwashed mainline evangelical America is.

That's not reality, it's a caricature. The truth is Santorum is not going to take over your daily life. You sound like the delusional liberals who said Bush was going to snap his fingers and outlaw abortion on his first day in office, and lock up homosexuals in camps, and force us all to go to church, etc. etc. The truth is that Santorum would likely be exactly what Ron Paul has deemed him as - status quo. Obviously, because I don't favor the status quo, I prefer Ron Paul being elected, but the idea that somehow Santorum represents some evil demon taking over America is just silly.


Except we don't like him here and voted him out by one of the largest margins in recent history.

Six years is forever in politics. There are tons of politicians who have suffered defeats and come back to win. Remember how Nixon "retired" from politics after losing to Kennedy? Then, he came back and won the presidency twice, the second in a record landslide. And a ton of Congress members have lost their seats and then regained them in future elections. The political winds shift all the time. If Santorum had been up for re-election in 2010 instead of 2006 would he have lost? Maybe so, but it wouldn't have been by that margin for sure.

Just because you have personal distaste for him doesn't mean everybody in Pennsylvania does. Has anybody polled Pennsylvania recently for your primary? I'll be curious to see what current Republican voters think of him there now. I'd not be surprised at all if people like him more than you think they do.

[abruzz0]

Dude, Santorum is a freaking lunatic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8uNcIEvGdo

[Jeffster]

Dude, Santorum is a freaking lunatic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8uNcIEvGdo

How many people said similar things about the Soviets in the 70's and 80's? Virtually every military action in that era was justified by most people under the guise of "stopping the spread of communism." Since 9/11, every military action is justified under the "Stopping the spread of Muslim terrorism" platform. Santorum isn't a lunatic, he's a politician, taking advantage of an electorate that is very often motivated by fear.

[Butchie]

What's kinda sad but funny at the same time is...I think people around the country actually LIKE Santorum. A lot of people are looking at him and thinking..."Oh my God, thank Jesus for Santorum, he's gonna restore family values and Christian beliefs in this country, it's so wonderful. He's the anti-Obama in every way!"

When in reality Froth is just a hardcore, blood-thirsty warmonger of delusional theocratic proportion that wants to use the power monopoly of government to monitor every facet of your daily life to ensure that it's "moral" while the gov't itself can rape and pillage across the planet. It's absolutely sickening how brainwashed mainline evangelical America is.

True, but isn't this what most conservatives want? I'm not even saying that sarcastic, they want America to be a Christian nation and they are scared to death of Muslims and want someone to "save" them. I was actually shocked all along that they weren't flocking to Santorum, he was everything they've ever dreamt of.

[alucard13mmfmj]

True, but isn't this what most conservatives want? I'm not even saying that sarcastic, they want America to be a Christian nation and they are scared to death of Muslims and want someone to "save" them. I was actually shocked all along that they weren't flocking to Santorum, he was everything they've ever dreamt of.

I think they are afraid of this... *some profanity* They want to prevent zombies XD...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWGtZ9Oqcwc

[South Park Fan]

Except we don't like him here and voted him out by one of the largest margins in recent history.

That doesn't mean that Republican voters don't like him, just Democrats and Independents, which are needed to actually win a general election.

[dskalkowski]

PPP is the only polling organization that has Santorum anywhere near 15 points ahead of Romney nationally. Gallup still has Romney ahead of Santorum nationally. I don't know how PPP is getting their numbers.

Actually Gallup is close, and the FOX News poll found Santorum gaining on Romney. Recent Michigan polls also suggest his spike.

[EBounding]

That's not reality, it's a caricature. The truth is Santorum is not going to take over your daily life. You sound like the delusional liberals who said Bush was going to snap his fingers and outlaw abortion on his first day in office, and lock up homosexuals in camps, and force us all to go to church, etc. etc. The truth is that Santorum would likely be exactly what Ron Paul has deemed him as - status quo. Obviously, because I don't favor the status quo, I prefer Ron Paul being elected, but the idea that somehow Santorum represents some evil demon taking over America is just silly.


I agree with this. Santorum is no more dangerous than Obamneyrich. Santorum has been trying to carve out his "niche" of the social conservative and military adventurism vote. He wouldn't be any more or any less radical than anyone else. If he does get the nomination, you will see him moderating to Romney-levels. He's status quo.

[Nisse]

Anyone care to explain how this makes sense?

Yes, it is smart democrats that wants the GOP's nominee to be completely unelctable so Obama Will have an easy win in the general election.

[James Madison]

Which means RP should stomp his guts out in the Penn primary, right? Or will they flock to Romney or Newt? I'm not really sure, because in '08 only McCain and Ron were on the ballot there, and Ron got over 120,000 votes...which was the most he received from any other state, including Cali.

Keep in mind that Ron is originally from the Harrisburg area.

[Brett85]

Actually Gallup is close, and the FOX News poll found Santorum gaining on Romney. Recent Michigan polls also suggest his spike.

I agree that Santorum is "surging," but I just don't think he's ahead by 15 points nationally. I would imagine that the Gallup poll is more accurate.

[69360]

Keep in mind that Ron is originally from the Harrisburg area.

Ron was born in the Pittsburgh area actually. Newt was born in the Harrisburg area.


I agree that Santorum is "surging," but I just don't think he's ahead by 15 points nationally. I would imagine that the Gallup poll is more accurate.

Gallup is a rolling 5 day average and it's been jumping 3 points a day, it will catch up to PPP soon. This is real. Santorum is the frontrunner now. The GOP is eating itself.