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ConceivedInLiberty
11-12-2007, 07:29 PM
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We hope there is no sufficient reason. We hope all dangers may be overcome; but to conclude that no danger may ever arise, would itself be extremely dangerous. There are now, and will hereafter be, many causes, dangerous in their tendency, which have not existed heretofore; and which are not too insignificant to merit attention. That our government should have been maintained in its original form from its establishment until now, is not much to be wondered at. It had many props to support it through that period, which now are decayed, and crumbled away. Through that period, it was felt by all, to be an undecided experiment; now, it is understood to be a successful one.--Then, all that sought celebrity and fame, and distinction, expected to find them in the success of that experiment. Their all was staked upon it:-- their destiny was inseparably linked with it. Their ambition aspired to display before an admiring world, a practical demonstration of the truth of a proposition, which had hitherto been considered, at best no better, than problematical; namely, the capability of a people to govern themselves. If they succeeded, they were to be immortalized; their names were to be transferred to counties and cities, and rivers and mountains; and to be revered and sung, and toasted through all time. If they failed, they were to be called knaves and fools, and fanatics for a fleeting hour; then to sink and be forgotten. They succeeded. The experiment is successful; and thousands have won their deathless names in making it so. But the game is caught; and I believe it is true, that with the catching, end the pleasures of the chase. This field of glory is harvested, and the crop is already appropriated. But new reapers will arise, and they, too, will seek a field. It is to deny, what the history of the world tells us is true, to suppose that men of ambition and talents will not continue to spring up amongst us. And, when they do, they will as naturally seek the gratification of their ruling passion, as others have so done before them. The question then, is, can that gratification be found in supporting and maintaining an edifice that has been erected by others? Most certainly it cannot. Many great and good men sufficiently qualified for any task they should undertake, may ever be found, whose ambition would inspire to nothing beyond a seat in Congress, a gubernatorial or a presidential chair; but such belong not to the family of the lion, or the tribe of the eagle. What! think you these places would satisfy an Alexander, a Caesar, or a Napoleon?--Never! Towering genius distains a beaten path. It seeks regions hitherto unexplored.--It sees no distinction in adding story to story, upon the monuments of fame, erected to the memory of others. It denies that it is glory enough to serve under any chief. It scorns to tread in the footsteps of any predecessor, however illustrious. It thirsts and burns for distinction; and, if possible, it will have it, whether at the expense of emancipating slaves, or enslaving freemen. Is it unreasonable then to expect, that some man possessed of the loftiest genius, coupled with ambition sufficient to push it to its utmost stretch, will at some time, spring up among us? And when such a one does, it will require the people to be united with each other, attached to the government and laws, and generally intelligent, to successfully frustrate his designs.

Distinction will be his paramount object, and although he would as willingly, perhaps more so, acquire it by doing good as harm; yet, that opportunity being past, and nothing left to be done in the way of building up, he would set boldly to the task of pulling down.

Here, then, is a probable case, highly dangerous, and such a one as could not have well existed heretofore.

Another reason which once was; but which, to the same extent, is now no more, has done much in maintaining our institutions thus far. I mean the powerful influence which the interesting scenes of the revolution had upon the passions of the people as distinguished from their judgment. By this influence, the jealousy, envy, and avarice, incident to our nature, and so common to a state of peace, prosperity, and conscious strength, were, for the time, in a great measure smothered and rendered inactive; while the deep-rooted principles of hate, and the powerful motive of revenge, instead of being turned against each other, were directed exclusively against the British nation. And thus, from the force of circumstances, the basest principles of our nature, were either made to lie dormant, or to become the active agents in the advancement of the noblest cause--that of establishing and maintaining civil and religious liberty.

But this state of feeling must fade, is fading, has faded, with the circumstances that produced it.

I do not mean to say, that the scenes of the revolution are now or ever will be entirely forgotten; but that like every thing else, they must fade upon the memory of the world, and grow more and more dim by the lapse of time. In history, we hope, they will be read of, and recounted, so long as the bible shall be read;-- but even granting that they will, their influence cannot be what it heretofore has been. Even then, they cannot be so universally known, nor so vividly felt, as they were by the generation just gone to rest. At the close of that struggle, nearly every adult male had been a participator in some of its scenes. The consequence was, that of those scenes, in the form of a husband, a father, a son or brother, a living history was to be found in every family-- a history bearing the indubitable testimonies of its own authenticity, in the limbs mangled, in the scars of wounds received, in the midst of the very scenes related--a history, too, that could be read and understood alike by all, the wise and the ignorant, the learned and the unlearned.--But those histories are gone. They can be read no more forever. They were a fortress of strength; but, what invading foeman could never do, the silent artillery of time has done; the leveling of its walls. They are gone.--They were a forest of giant oaks; but the all-resistless hurricane has swept over them, and left only, here and there, a lonely trunk, despoiled of its verdure, shorn of its foliage; unshading and unshaded, to murmur in a few gentle breezes, and to combat with its mutilated limbs, a few more ruder storms, then to sink, and be no more.

They were the pillars of the temple of liberty; and now, that they have crumbled away, that temple must fall, unless we, their descendants, supply their places with other pillars, hewn from the solid quarry of sober reason. Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy. Reason, cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason, must furnish all the materials for our future support and defence.--Let those materials be moulded into general intelligence, sound morality, and in particular, a reverence for the constitution and laws: and, that we improved to the last; that we remained free to the last; that we revered his name to the last; that, during his long sleep, we permitted no hostile foot to pass over or desecrate his resting place; shall be that which to learn the last trump shall awaken our WASHINGTON.

Upon these let the proud fabric of freedom rest, as the rock of its basis; and as truly as has been said of the only greater institution, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/lyceum.htm

The parallels between Abraham Lincoln and Ron Paul are so strong and obvious to see. The portion about America being doomed to die from destroying our own freedoms through political suicide has been used in some campaign materials, but I think we're selling short the many many similiarities between Lincoln (the first and in most minds both the best President and best Republican) and Dr. Paul.

Also notice the similarities between how Lincoln opposed the support of the Mexican War and how Dr. Paul opposes the Iraq war. In both cases, a vastly weaker nation was portrayed by the media and establishment to be a serious threat to the security of our nation.

beerista
11-12-2007, 07:37 PM
http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/lyceum.htm

The parallels between Abraham Lincoln and Ron Paul are so strong and obvious to see. The portion about America being doomed to die from destroying our own freedoms through political suicide has been used in some campaign materials, but I think we're selling short the many many similiarities between Lincoln (the first and in most minds both the best President and best Republican) and Dr. Paul.

Also notice the similarities between how Lincoln opposed the support of the Mexican War and how Dr. Paul opposes the Iraq war. In both cases, a vastly weaker nation was portrayed by the media and establishment to be a serious threat to the security of our nation.

Except that Paul actually mean it when he waxes eloquent about peace and freedom.

But your point is well taken and I see no reason not to use people's blind love of Lincoln to our advantage. First Republican president and all that. The only people who seem to have an axe to grind with Lincoln are likely to already be on board, so why not?

Vvick727
11-12-2007, 07:45 PM
uh... idk if comparing dr. paul to lincoln is the best idea.

he abandoned the Constitution during the civil war. he arrested many newspaper companies for publishing the "wrong" info.

he also didn't really care about slavery, except in public. in various interviews and debates, he actually preferred if slavery continued, as long as the Union was preserved. thats all he really cared about.

he was also a lobbyist i believe.

yeah, idk if comparing the two is the best idea. maybe in that aspect, but when you dig deeper, i don't think so.

ConceivedInLiberty
11-12-2007, 07:47 PM
Except that Paul actually mean it when he waxes eloquent about peace and freedom.

But your point is well taken and I see no reason not to use people's blind love of Lincoln to our advantage. First Republican president and all that. The only people who seem to have an axe to grind with Lincoln are likely to already be on board, so why not?

It's true that Lincoln took many actions which clash strongly with the libertarian message, but as you said, most people who feel strongly about such issues are already supporting Dr. Paul.

I think there's a lot of votes to be gained through the "true Republican" argument which imho isn't used quite enough. We can't rely completely on independents and Libertarians in the Republican Party to carry us through the primary, we have to convince the less-well-informed of the GOP that RP really is the truest Republican in the field.

Lincoln is a name that probably 95% of the population of the United States supports, and while by nature the average Ron Paul supporter is a citizen well-versed in history and the Constitution, playing this card may be a good way to get us over the 10% mark in states like NH and NV.

beerista
11-12-2007, 08:11 PM
It's true that Lincoln took many actions which clash strongly with the libertarian message, but as you said, most people who feel strongly about such issues are already supporting Dr. Paul.

I think there's a lot of votes to be gained through the "true Republican" argument which imho isn't used quite enough. We can't rely completely on independents and Libertarians in the Republican Party to carry us through the primary, we have to convince the less-well-informed of the GOP that RP really is the truest Republican in the field.

Lincoln is a name that probably 95% of the population of the United States supports, and while by nature the average Ron Paul supporter is a citizen well-versed in history and the Constitution, playing this card may be a good way to get us over the 10% mark in states like NH and NV.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. No reason not to use anything that will appeal to them. There really isn't time between now and the primaries to educate everyone and watch patiently while they thrash about in soul-searching agony as they discover that their heroes have feet of clay. So I'm all for using people's ignorance to our ends. Maybe Paul can educate them on history with a weekly fireside chat. I'm not above using a Lincoln quote on occasion, even one I know Lincoln didn't mean, if I think it will play well with an audience.

Aratus
04-18-2009, 12:27 PM
the great debates in the realm of ideas sometimes in their wake have people taking stances
in the realm of scholarship. the above speech should not be forgotten, and many of the artifacts
and relics of lincoln's short time on this good earth also have their own merrie debates. i sometimes
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/nj/20090413_Lincoln_s__Shroud_of_Turin_.html feel sorry for museum curators... every now and then!

Aratus
01-01-2013, 04:03 PM
the realm of history has its semi~ironical moments. did mitch mcconnell just agree with our potus
so to go down in the history books as a great compromiser not unlike henry clay only to let our
speaker of the house to wander up into the far and distant pasture, given that if both men were
totally serious about the art of compromise, the house would have voted at about the time the
senate did? admittedly one wishes there was a time machine, and politicians could meet themselves.