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View Full Version : It's Time to Attack HARD- The Truth Needs to Come Out, or I'M DONE DONATING




The Binghamton Patriot
02-09-2012, 10:14 AM
Hi Everyone,

I have been pondering for quite sometime as to why our message hasn't resonated with the average voter in this election cycle, and after analyzing our numbers from 2008, it is clear that Ron is on the upswing and our constituency represents the future of what will be remaining of the GOP. We are at a crossroad and I think it is time that I speak up and lay out HOW we really need to do this. We should be proud that we have grown so much in the last 4 years-However, our goal is NOT:

1) to get a speech at the GOP convention
2) to alter the platform
3) to split a ticket with some neocon

OUR GOAL IS TO WIN.

After analyzing every single debate over and over with many of you, I have come to the conclusion that it is not the message, it is the way it is being delivered. It goes without saying that While I applaud Ron for his courage and polite nature, it has gotten us no where being nice to Santorum, Newt and Romney.

Case in point: Santorum has no problem interrupting Ron any chance he gets, and he is applauded- Romney dips and dodges every complicated question unrelated to the economy and NO ONE CALLS HIM OUT. Newt is a historical Revisionist who has been on every side of every issue, but he is NEVER confronted with any emotion, or called out personally for his adulterous actions. These people are given a free stage via our media to lie to the American people in an open forum regarding their records, personal life, and intentions as president. I understand many of you "found" Ron Paul by doing your own research, but the FACT IS- Americans are lazy, lack dignity, and are dishonest to the core. I've accepted that, and I think it's something that has permeated our society to the point of no return. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I think it is finally time for someone to lay out what Ron NEEDS AND MUST SAY at the next debate which will be THE MOST CRUCIAL of any up to this point in the debate cycle.

Understand- Assuming we win Maine, we will have momentum from the win and vindication from the 2nd place finish in the latest Reuters poll as evidence of "elect-ability". This will be our WAVE. We need to ride the wave and capitalize on ANY AND ALL opportunity given to use while we are on the upswing. Here is what needs to come out at the next debate- I also include a video of Gerald Celente, only because I want to illustrate the magnitude of emotion and diction necessary to convince the AVERAGE American that Ron is the only guy who can beat Obama.

Doug Wead, John Tate, Jesse Benton, if you are reading this, I would suggest that you seriously consider my diction and choice of words, as they are not for the faint of heart or someone who wants to be "friendly". I am suggesting ALL OUT VICIOUS, SCORNFUL ATTACKS ON OUR COMPETITION. NO MORE HANDSHAKES AFTER THE DEBATE, NO MORE SMILING AND BEING POLITE. WE MEAN BUSINESS.

Ron v. Santorum on Stage- Santorum: "I'm the most conservative and can draw 'the greatest contrast with Obama"

Ron: "Senator Santorum is LYING to all of you. He is NOT the most conservative, and if you don't believe me, look at his voting record. He voted to raise the debt ceiling 5 times, while I have NEVER voted for a tax increase or unbalanced budget. He has voted against right to work legislation, while I have voted for every right to work bill as a congressman. Senator Santorum voted for Medicare part D, No child Left Behind, and has voted like a democrat for most of his career on KEY votes like this. He endorsed Pro - choice Arlen specter, who ended up being voted out. And in turn, he was also voted out of the senate in the biggest landslide in senatorial history. HE HAS NO BUSINESS TALKING ABOUT war, because he has NEVER SERVED. He does not have THE MORAL AUTHORITY to command the troops.
Death Blow- Ron: "Money talks. If my foreign policy is so bad, why do those on the front lines of the war give ME more money than all of you put together. None of you have served, none of you know what war is like, and I am the ONLY one up here that is fit to command the military, and the troops agree. ITS TIME WE END THESE WARS AND SHORE UP MEDICARE AND SS".


Ron v. Newt- Newt: "I want to reign in the federal reserve and put Ben Bernanke on the unemployment line".

Ron: "Newt has no idea what he is talking about. I have been fighting the Federal reserve for over 40 years as a congressman, and have written several books on monetary theory and ending the fed. Newt is an opportunist who has realized that more and more people have been coming around to the position that I have taken, and he is seeking to hijack my position for his own political benefit. Newt, as speaker of the house you never once mentioned an audit of the federal reserve as a top priority. You have never worked one day in the private sector, and have spent most of your life sucking off the public dole in government, or benefiting monetarily as an influence peddler for Freddie Mac, WHILE I WAS FIGHTING it. I called the housing bubble in 2003, while you were busy lobbying- your firm made 1.6 million from the taxpayers. Worst of all Newt, you claim to be a Reagan conservative, but Reagan never once mentioned you as a key proponent of any policy. He even took note that your military policy would hurt our defense capabilities. I led the texas delegation for Reagan in 76, and Reagan endorsed my military views in 1980. You are NOT FIT to serve as commander in chief of our military, as you have never served.

Death Blow: Ron:"You are a serial hypocrite, and you have been on every side of every issue. You have sat and done commercials with Nancy Pelosi. If you sat down with Pelosi to support carbon taxes, open borders and internationalism once, how can u reassure the american people you won't do it again?"


Ron v. Romney- Romney: "My plan will cut the budget 1 trillion over 10 years and strengthen our military, preserve SS and medicare for our seniors, and balance the budget"

Ron: "Governor Romney is betting that most of you won't go online and look at his budget, or inquire about how he plans to meet all of these goals. He is very dishonest in his presentation of the facts. Where is the money going to come from? Are you going to raise 'fees' like you did in Massachusetts? Any money taken from the people is a TAX. YOU ARE A TAX RAISER, and a big spender. Only when it comes to other people's money. You cannot have an empire in 130 countries and promise that SS and medicare will be there in 5-10 years. It is just impossible. If seniors truly want their SS and medicare, I am the only one who will use resources spent on embassies in Baghdad to shore up SS and medicare. I'll put our drones in the pacific and on the border- and design a military strategy focused on DEFENDING this country, not the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. I will eliminate all foreign aid uniformly and without discrimination, and shore up programs like child healthcare.

Death Blow: I WILL BE AN 'AMERICA FIRST' president, and not spend one american dollar, or put one american life in danger unless its totally necessary. Governor Romney would send your kids, nephews, brothers sons and friends into war, but won't send his own. In fact, during the Vietnam war, you were a missionary in France. when you came back, you criticized people for protesting, and even took to the streets in doing so. If I were to look up "chicken hawk in the dictionary, I would see your picture. You are the true definition of a chicken hawk. You have no business talking about war, because you have never gotten into anything as much as a schoolyard fight. You represent the corporations, and not populist America. your top three contributors are Goldman, JP Morgan, and Citigroup. My top 3 contributors are the US AIR FORCE, US ARMY and THE NAVY"


Please review and watch the emotion and candor of Gerald celente in his analysis of what we need to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=6Qq6v75td6s

While I don't want to come off as a nutjob or right wing lunatic, Gerald is spot on. we need to take the gloves off and stand firm.


I have outlined above what we need to say at the debates. This is not an option. I will not be donating any more money to this campaign unless Ron starts reciprocating the anathemas that have been hurled at him by each of these men and the media, throughout this campaign. I love Ron, but like I said before, desperate times call for desperate measures. While I recognize it has been politically expedient to lay low and not attack, and allow the race to take a shape (for a potential brokered convention), it is now time to draw the line in the sand with these people. These men up on stage do not represent us, or our values or ideals. They are criminals, and need to be exposed for what they are, even if it means Ron is portrayed as "rude" or "out of step with the mainstream". I know Ron has no problem saying how he feels, but the time for being politically correct and sitting back is over. I will be donating the rest of what I am available to donate on Feb 14, but after that I will not be donating again until I see emotion and raw attacks.


I urge everyone who feels the same to get behind me and influence the campaign. We need the people at the top to see what we are seeing. time is running out. This may be our last chance.

RonPaulRules
02-09-2012, 10:17 AM
This is perfect. I agree with you 100%. It's time to go big, or go home.

Salutary7
02-09-2012, 10:44 AM
I absolutely agree he should be more assertive, and probably even prepare responses like those you've suggested.

jkr
02-09-2012, 10:49 AM
VERY NICE

and true (even better)
we should all memorize this

The Binghamton Patriot
02-09-2012, 10:59 AM
bump bump bump lets push this peopleee

georgiaboy
02-09-2012, 11:11 AM
Agree that Ron should hold back no punches.

As the debates have progressed, I think Ron has been building a crescendo. It's time to get to the fortissimo, now.

I'd like for Ron to have a few easily graspable, colorful, word picture type illustrations that can put thoughts into people's minds about the size of the economic problems we have, the differences between him and the other candidates, the difference between his plan for restoring America vs. the others' plans, and a comparison between a safe America under Ron Paul vs. the other candidates'.

I'd love to have people walking away from the debate thinking "wow, I didn't realize how if each dollar of debt was a pound of cow manure it'd cover the entire USA in a 500 foot thick blanket of b.s." or something like that.

bw68
02-09-2012, 11:40 AM
I would love to see Ron get fired up and go on the attack. He can't wait for the debates though. He needs to influence Maine by this weekend. I'm in Maine, and the caucus I went to last weekend, Romney had the edge.

ILUVRP
02-09-2012, 11:52 AM
fish or cut bail .

also get a few new ideas.

cartemj06
02-09-2012, 12:12 PM
how do you do the +rep thing? I want to for the OP.
I likey!

playboymommy
02-09-2012, 12:21 PM
This sent chills down my spine...the awakening that would occur.

No Free Beer
02-09-2012, 12:41 PM
bump

RonPaulRules
02-09-2012, 12:54 PM
This should be moved to http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?296-Ron-Paul-Grassroots-Central so it gets more exposure!

ILUVRP
02-09-2012, 04:17 PM
i honestly think RP is the last chance we have to save this great country .

i have no idea who would replace him as he will be too old in 2016 , his son doesn't seem to have the same thoughts as RP .

Ron Paul has to get tough with these guys as they will throw him under the bus.

sillvergirl
02-09-2012, 06:04 PM
Americans have a short attention span and limited knowledge. Ron Paul needs to clearly state ... " The rest of these presidential candidates...
are going to be continuing ... wasting American lives and wealth ...destroying the infrastructure in other nations, and then rebuilding what we destroyed...
while our own power grid, highways, and social safety net implodes...at the same time... passing a massive debt burden onto our children and grandchildren.
I am NOT OK with that..and .the American people are NOT OK with that !

America's greatness comes from the fact that she has been " Of the people, by the people, and for the people"...not
"Of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation "...

I will stake MY PRESIDENCY... on protecting the safety,the security, and the freedom and opportunity for the American people .I will work tirelessly... for the necessary reforms, to get America back on track for prosperity, peace, and the liberty which has made America ...
the shining beacon on the hill... guiding all of the free world for generations . "

Ron Paul + YouTube= Free
02-09-2012, 06:22 PM
Republicans worship aggression. Lets get the crazy-eyes and do this. Time to get vicious:eek:.

Koz
02-09-2012, 06:43 PM
I agree Bing, time to drop the hammer!

Oh, and the reason, in case you were wondering why our message is not resonating, is the American education system. It has dumbed down the population so much that people have a very limited ablility to reason.

kill the banks
02-09-2012, 06:47 PM
thx! time to fight for our lives and go for knockout truth punches ... Ron can do this ... he has changed the entire debate already with the message and now can be the boxer with the KO punch

Feeding the Abscess
02-09-2012, 11:57 PM
He's mentioned all of the things you brought up about Santorum in debates.

The Binghamton Patriot
02-10-2012, 12:26 PM
He's mentioned all of the things you brought up about Santorum in debates.

You're missing the point. Ron will mention it, but he won't attack him, look him in the eye, and POINT at him. When he attacks, its like he's nervous the other guy is gonna come over and punch him. His tone of voice is not thunderous and vindictive; it doesn't sound like he wants to FIGHT. That's what I'm Saying. He doesn't juxtapose himself against Santorum when they are on stage. Look at what I wrote compared to the way Ron speaks- He can attack, but he needs to show others that his record is more consistent and honest. What I wrote harnesses our best asset: AUTHENTICITY. We need people to see the difference between TS Eliot's Hollow Men up on stage, and Ron's platform, rooted in sincerity and honesty. Only then will people begin to see.

Philosophy_of_Politics
02-10-2012, 12:39 PM
I do agree with the notion, that Republicans (mainstream) favor the tone of aggression. To them it means "strength."

Czolgosz
02-10-2012, 12:48 PM
Ron is not a good attack dog, it takes him out of his element.

jemuf
02-10-2012, 02:12 PM
"or I'M DONE DONATING"

You won't donate because he's not the speaker you want, the speaker you need? Ron Paul IS the speaker. No one else has the courage to say what he says.

I think it's important to put ourselves in Dr. Paul's shoes. Do any of us really have courage? Do any of us stand up and alone for what's right? Would any of us continue to speak to an audience that was cheering against us?

Put yourself in Dr. Paul's shoes at the 3:20 mark of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD7dnFDdwu0

I have a hard time believing that on this forum there are a bunch of courageous, intelligent, non-conformist fighters that would fight on year after year seemingly in vain.

I wouldn't tell you to not donate, but I will say you need to keep SUPPORTING.

Dr. Paul IS the Champion of Liberty...for America, himself, and you! He's endured/endures a lot of ridicule and scorn for that lonely position. There's even a belief that The Establishment would commit the ultimate offense to stop him.

Remember that hope you felt at the start of this campaign? When, before that time, had you ever felt that? When, if this movement fails, do you think you'll feel that again?

I remember first seeing/hearing Dr. Paul in the 08 campaign. He definitely caught my attention then in a good way but not enough to support him.

I wish I could remember the exact moment that Dr. Paul's message clicked. It was in the summer of 2011, maybe during a debate or because of a "news" story.

I support Dr. Paul because of his sincerity, common sense, intelligence, consistency, and courage.

Thank you Dr. Paul for awakening me, changing my perspectives regarding liberty, giving those perspectives a voice, and giving this country a chance.

ILUVRP
02-10-2012, 04:47 PM
picked this up from the 321 gold site about DR Paul , great read . keep bumping it up.

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/kotecha/kotecha021012.html

pacelli
02-10-2012, 04:53 PM
Ron needs to make headlines at the 2/22 CNN debate. Serious headlines.

Ron Paul + YouTube= Free
02-10-2012, 05:03 PM
Bighamton's right, here's part of message I posted in another thread yesterday explaining why.....

Lets face it, if all it took to win this thing was intelligence and rationality Dr. Paul would be in the lead but thatís not the case. Apparently the perception of power is just as important to the sheepish GOP base. The sad fact is that many of them like, and want to see, a little aggression. Weird but true. If he directed a little more emotional fire at the media and the other candidates it would go a long way in the eyes of base republicans. I personally like when Dr. Paul explains to me the ways of the world like some all knowing history textbook but many people in this world base much of their perception of others on emotional appeal. No matter how right he is, ignorant people will not identify with him if they donít see him as powerful or aggressive. For some, intelligence and integrity earns respect, for others itís perceived power, aggression and fear. The world needs to see a bit of this guy( http://youtu.be/vcbfobiHTCE 1:05 to 1:25). Dr. Paul must show some emotion towards others for not perusing peace and prosperity. Attack the others passionately for not being true conservatives and show some personal offense that they do not put the American people first. He needs to be offended when reporters ask rude and insulting questions. He shouldn't let the media disrespect him by not properly addressing him with his hard earned titles of Doctor and congressman Paul and he should correct them. Why does he let them get away with asking if he will endorse another candidate? Why not flip the question to "Why aren't they endorsing me?"? It would also serve him well to reverse the incessant fear mongering they use to trap him and use it to his advantage. When they beat the war drum he has to beat the anti war drum (if there is such a thing) with even more conviction.

The Binghamton Patriot
02-10-2012, 05:36 PM
"or I'M DONE DONATING"

You won't donate because he's not the speaker you want, the speaker you need? Ron Paul IS the speaker. No one else has the courage to say what he says.

I think it's important to put ourselves in Dr. Paul's shoes. Do any of us really have courage? Do any of us stand up and alone for what's right? Would any of us continue to speak to an audience that was cheering against us?

Put yourself in Dr. Paul's shoes at the 3:20 mark of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD7dnFDdwu0

I have a hard time believing that on this forum there are a bunch of courageous, intelligent, non-conformist fighters that would fight on year after year seemingly in vain.

I wouldn't tell you to not donate, but I will say you need to keep SUPPORTING.

Dr. Paul IS the Champion of Liberty...for America, himself, and you! He's endured/endures a lot of ridicule and scorn for that lonely position. There's even a belief that The Establishment would commit the ultimate offense to stop him.

Remember that hope you felt at the start of this campaign? When, before that time, had you ever felt that? When, if this movement fails, do you think you'll feel that again?

I remember first seeing/hearing Dr. Paul in the 08 campaign. He definitely caught my attention then in a good way but not enough to support him.

I wish I could remember the exact moment that Dr. Paul's message clicked. It was in the summer of 2011, maybe during a debate or because of a "news" story.

I support Dr. Paul because of his sincerity, common sense, intelligence, consistency, and courage.

Thank you Dr. Paul for awakening me, changing my perspectives regarding liberty, giving those perspectives a voice, and giving this country a chance.

no, I won't stop supporting, but the fact is, my resources are about as scarce as everyone else's. i've donated several thousand dollars to the campaign, and I've spoken to other supporters who feel the same- HE NEEDS TO FIGHT. THE other guys up there are not on our team, they are not on our side, and if you want proof, listen to this-

scroll to about 4:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y

I've been a Ron guy for many years, and this stuck with me. Romney is fake, Santorum is a straight up liar, and Newt is an EMBARRASSMENT to our party. He needs to confront them with some vindictive facts, and MAKE HEADLINES. We want him to FIGHT THESE PEOPLE, NOT SHAKE THEIR HANDS, OR BE THEIR FRIEND. WE control the delegates because their supporters are too complacent and ignorant to figure our the process. I don't care what they think about it. WE ARE TAKING THIS OVER THE TOP.

Feeding the Abscess
02-10-2012, 06:24 PM
You're missing the point. Ron will mention it, but he won't attack him, look him in the eye, and POINT at him. When he attacks, its like he's nervous the other guy is gonna come over and punch him. His tone of voice is not thunderous and vindictive; it doesn't sound like he wants to FIGHT. That's what I'm Saying. He doesn't juxtapose himself against Santorum when they are on stage. Look at what I wrote compared to the way Ron speaks- He can attack, but he needs to show others that his record is more consistent and honest. What I wrote harnesses our best asset: AUTHENTICITY. We need people to see the difference between TS Eliot's Hollow Men up on stage, and Ron's platform, rooted in sincerity and honesty. Only then will people begin to see.

He's 76 years old, he's just not an attack dog anymore. Buchanan doesn't have the same expression of thought that he did when he was in his 40s and 50s, either.

It's just what happens when you get old.

3kgt
02-10-2012, 07:10 PM
I completely disagree. He has class and I would be very unhappy if he resorted to the childish tactics and arguing style of the other candidates.

The way Ron speaks at debates makes him appear as a man among boys and I think the effect this has is underestimated.

georgiaboy
02-10-2012, 07:23 PM
I want him to paint the others as Obamas.

ClydeCoulter
02-10-2012, 10:18 PM
Ron Paul has to do this his way. Where were we when he was fighting in the 80's, 90's, early 2000's?

I have watched Ron Paul find his voice, maybe slower than some want, but he is finding it again. The PTB are hoping for discouragement to creep in, don't let it. "The wise will be defeated by enough discouragement" is what they say.

We need to continue to help with a little help as many have. This is what's putting fire back into this man. I saw his supprise in 2008 that so many would hear him and actually listen. He's been talking common sense in front of deaf ears for decades!

Now, his batteries are being charged by the electrifying reponse he's getting from we the people. Keep charging his batteries, he's worth it, and he's earned it, and we will all share in the benefits of it.

Be patient, young padawan, be patient.

alucard13mmfmj
02-11-2012, 04:36 AM
Ron doesn't attack often, because I think he is after Santorum and Gingrich's supporters. Doesn't want to alienate them. It is like how Romney is not attacking Ron, because Romney is after Ron's supporters. The plan was to be anti-Romney and expect Santorum and Gingrich to drop out on their own or early in the game.

Sadly, this has no happened... So I do believe some kind of change in tactic MAY be in order, although not necessary. This is a different scenario. Instead of Ron vs Romney, it is Ron vs Romney vs Santorum vs Gingrich for at some duration of time.

I think Ron should at least, in general, attack Obama. Republicans seem to love Obama trash talking. Although, I know that Ron is probably saving the real ammo in a debate against Obama... so he probably can't use it now, at least not specifics.

I also think that people are getting impatient.. mainly because of the potentially impending doom that is just over the horizon. You know, with the dollar being devalued, unemployment at all time low, and everything domestic and foreign is messed up. Ron Paul may or may not be our salvation, but he is certainly better than Obama or the other GOP clowns. Ron won't screw us intentionally or sell us out as the president.

Final note, I did noticed that he changed his speaking style a little bit on news interview... ^^. He uses less "uhhh" and starting to use third person subject for himself. Like "people support Ron Paul" versus "people support me". We will have to see how the next debate goes.

LibertyEagle
02-11-2012, 04:52 AM
scroll to about 4:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y/
That was from 2008, but yeah, Romney laughed at Paul back then.

Thanks for the audio though. That radio personality was great. :)

Paul Or Nothing II
02-11-2012, 06:01 AM
I agree with OP that Ron should attack others more & it's about the tone & body-language - it needs to be a little stronger (although I'd say he could tone down the word a LITTLE compared to OP because yes, we need to expose them but NOT alienate their supporters :D)


And it's time Ron started attacking Romney more, he's seen as the frontrunner & he needs to be attacked, even with ads & whatever IMO, following video would make a very good anti-Romney ad if we extract the relevant parts, it'd be about 30-40 seconds at best We need to sink Romney ASAP, Sanitarium & Gingbitch can be dealt with anyway!

The lack of attacks is allowing people to ASSUME that Ron & him have some kind of "deal" & what's unfortunate is that some of the supporters here have expressed their desire to support Romney/Paul where Paul would be NOTHING BUT A SHOWPONY & NOTHING WILL CHANGE So, this rumor needs to be quelled ASAP :mad:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIeekoQfqVU

Feeding the Abscess
02-11-2012, 07:24 AM
I agree with OP that Ron should attack others more & it's about the tone & body-language - it needs to be a little stronger (although I'd say he could tone down the word a LITTLE compared to OP because yes, we need to expose them but NOT alienate their supporters :D)


And it's time Ron started attacking Romney more, he's seen as the frontrunner & he needs to be attacked, even with ads & whatever IMO, following video would make a very good anti-Romney ad if we extract the relevant parts, it'd be about 30-40 seconds at best We need to sink Romney ASAP, Sanitarium & Gingbitch can be dealt with anyway!

The lack of attacks is allowing people to ASSUME that Ron & him have some kind of "deal" & what's unfortunate is that some of the supporters here have expressed their desire to support Romney/Paul where Paul would be NOTHING BUT A SHOWPONY & NOTHING WILL CHANGE So, this rumor needs to be quelled ASAP :mad:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIeekoQfqVU

Mitt's been placed in numerous campaign ads.

Paul Or Nothing II
02-11-2012, 07:43 AM
Mitt's been placed in numerous campaign ads.

Has there been any ads attacking only Romney on all the issues he's flip-flopped?

There needs to be an ad only attacking romney like in the linked video - where there's side-by-side screen to draw contrast, where he says one thing on one screen then exact opposite on the other screen, on many issues - be it abortion, gun-ownership, bailouts, role of federal government. Not to mention, Ron should bring ALL of these things up at every chance he gets in the debates as well as interviews!

As I've said, he's the frontrunner, he needs to be knocked back, the other two will be within our reach anyway

Feeding the Abscess
02-11-2012, 08:23 AM
Has there been any ads attacking only Romney on all the issues he's flip-flopped?

There needs to be an ad only attacking romney like in the linked video - where there's side-by-side screen to draw contrast, where he says one thing on one screen then exact opposite on the other screen, on many issues - be it abortion, gun-ownership, bailouts, role of federal government. Not to mention, Ron should bring ALL of these things up at every chance he gets in the debates as well as interviews!

As I've said, he's the frontrunner, he needs to be knocked back, the other two will be within our reach anyway

People already know Romney's weaknesses, and others are attacking him constantly. Division of labor; embrace it.

Publicani
02-11-2012, 08:39 AM
The Binghamton Patriot, I've sent you a private message. please check your inbox

gb13
02-11-2012, 01:16 PM
+ fucking rep! I'm with you on this 100%. Go big or go home. What the hell do we have to lose? It's not like we have to worry about losing the popular vote; we're already doing that! All this stealth delegate strategy business can continue unaffected, while THIS get's the people to wake the fuck up and get behind us.

Great post!

ClydeCoulter
02-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Children, be patient, have you never heard, "Rome wasn't built in a day"?

Suzu
02-11-2012, 07:52 PM
... people are getting impatient... with the dollar being devalued, unemployment at all time low

Really? I think it's just the opposite.

Paul Or Nothing II
02-12-2012, 12:06 AM
People already know Romney's weaknesses, and others are attacking him constantly. Division of labor; embrace it.

Are you reading, man? We need to attack Romney more, he's STILL frontrunner & now there are these stupid rumors that Paul & Romney have something brewing & they're going to push Romney/Paul & some of the supporters are falling for it, we DON'T NEED that as THAT WILL CHANGE NOTHING ABOUT THE COUNTRY!


Really? I think it's just the opposite.

:D

JJ2
02-12-2012, 01:51 AM
I am sick of this being friends with/nice to Mitt Romney.

You can't say what needs to be said if you're worrying about friendships.

I never thought Ron Paul would be the type of person to do that, but it sure seems that he is.

He better convince us otherwise.

Fast.

Paul Or Nothing II
02-12-2012, 08:50 AM
I am sick of this being friends with/nice to Mitt Romney.

You can't say what needs to be said if you're worrying about friendships.

I never thought Ron Paul would be the type of person to do that, but it sure seems that he is.

He better convince us otherwise.

Fast.

They are NOT friends, he has been giving him a little respect because Romney was doing the same but they're NOT friends as much as Ron is NOT a friend of Barney Frank just because they introduced drug-legislation together but YES, I agree with you that Ron needs to attack Romney more!...........but again, they're NOT friends! Ron is just a gentleman........perhaps too much of a gentleman!

dirtdigger
02-12-2012, 10:22 AM
They are NOT friends, he has been giving him a little respect because Romney was doing the same but they're NOT friends as much as Ron is NOT a friend of Barney Frank just because they introduced drug-legislation together but YES, I agree with you that Ron needs to attack Romney more!...........but again, they're NOT friends! Ron is just a gentleman........perhaps too much of a gentleman!

Unless the campaign attacks Romney's record, he will not be able to wean away any voters from Romney. The person who exposes Romney's record gets the support of the voter who changes his or her mind based on the expose. Being gentlemanly has nothing to do with targeting issues. There sure is something going on between Romney and Paul.

The Binghamton Patriot
02-12-2012, 11:26 AM
They are NOT friends, he has been giving him a little respect because Romney was doing the same but they're NOT friends as much as Ron is NOT a friend of Barney Frank just because they introduced drug-legislation together but YES, I agree with you that Ron needs to attack Romney more!...........but again, they're NOT friends! Ron is just a gentleman........perhaps too much of a gentleman!

Romney is the same guy that in 2008 said that he would laugh at Ron, "because he wants to get rid of the CIA and the FBI", and that "he sure is laughing at him". Above I have posted a video of Romney saying this. Do you think the campaign knows this? I can't confirm this, but if they did I'm sure it would vindicate our claims that all of this fake little nice play between Ron and Romney is exactly how we see it: fake and nice. Going forward I can't see how we can continue to do this and still remain viable in the eyes of the minority of American people who value Ron, not merely because of his positions, but also because of the one trait that he has that no one else has- Authenticity. We must harness this asset going forward and start attacking with emotion, fire, passion and energy.

ClydeCoulter
02-12-2012, 11:44 AM
I would really like to see this thread dead, it keeps getting bumped to the top (it's there now). The title of this post is not productive in any way. You want to discuss more about Paul attacking Romney, please start a new thread with that topic.

Christelle
02-12-2012, 01:40 PM
It's Time to Attack Hard ! Indeed ! :)

Bump!

http://i.imgur.com/OYTSz.jpg

LineHogs
02-12-2012, 09:53 PM
I am sick of this being friends with/nice to Mitt Romney.

You can't say what needs to be said if you're worrying about friendships.

I never thought Ron Paul would be the type of person to do that, but it sure seems that he is.

He better convince us otherwise.

Fast.

lol, all of you are missing the point here. The American Constitution was desinged to prevent radicals from taking office. The ENTIRE point of a two party system is to bring the most moderate candidates to the forefront thus limiting the ambitions of people like us..... That's a good thing.... It's also why winning has NEVER been the goal. That's a bonus. What we need is to grow the movement.

The purpose of the Libertarian party is NOT to win and suddenly become the ruling party. Our purpose is to pull the already conservative base right. We are the far right whether you realize it or not. Social issues may differ but the real objective of libertarianism is economic freedom. All freedom flows from it. Even in China the economic freedom provided the people by their association wiht American business has given them a better life than the one where government blanketly handled the economy. They were forced into a degree of economic freedom and it has worked. Are the people of China free? No... but they are one hell of a lot more free because of us than 50 years ago. Anyways that's beside the point.

If Ron Paul can via this process bring to light the severity of government power on our system as a burden rather than a freedom it will help bring people over. If Romney were to win the presidency it would be in his political best interests to find someone who bring in voters. Most conservatives are going to unite against Obama anyways. He won't need a Sarah Palin conservative on the ticket to bring them along. He needs a coalition. Paul can bring a few million votes with him and that changes the dynamic gor Mitt Romney.

HEre is why that benefits Libertarians. You may not like it. But it will help us. It will lend Paul a voice. His office will carry weight in the public AND thw white house. On issues of Liberty Paul can pull the whitehouse right which will benefit us in the coming years. Romney is a politician and his stated goal is nothing more than to win. He is only interested in the economic side of things and in many ways he might be on the same page. If Paul were the VP we would have the VERY best chance to avoid a war with Iran, limit the power of government, ect ect ect.

I know you want him to win. I do too. But that has NEVER been the objective here. Our political system is designed to move slowly. We can't usurp the Republican party. We have to pull them back right. They have drifted to the point they mirror the Democrat party they just disagree on where to spend the money. If a romney/Paul presidency reduces the size of government and protects liberty on the most important issues it will buy America some time. This thing is growing. But Ron Paul is not the head. He is the voice. The head of the movement is the idean and belief in liberty and those who seek to find it will also educate themselves on how to attain it.

I am a constitutionalist. to the point that I understand that the system screws my candidate and I still support it. I support it because it was brilliant. The design is nearly flawless. The goals rational. It is near the end. It's life is running out not because it can't work anymore or it doesn't meet the needs of the modern world. It's lifespans is running out because ambitious people will ALWAYS be there to fight for more power. Even us. The document and structure of the system has managed to stave off tyranny for a few hundred years. That's pretty good considering that the greater part of human history is spent under some form of tyranny.

A movement is growing to re-write the constitution. Because it is so weakened I don't know if we can save it. But that is the end game of this movement. Liberty. Preservation of Liberty. And Freedom.... must spread like wildfire if we are too keep our feet after this is all over. As of now we will likely be on our backs and within a generation in chains. All of you had better reconsider what it is you are doing here. If you are here for social issues go home. If you are here because this is a popular counter-culture go home. If you will not support liberty because your candidate cannot win go home. As for me and mine.... I will support it anyways because I believe in it.

Paul Or Nothing II
02-13-2012, 03:08 AM
Unless the campaign attacks Romney's record, he will not be able to wean away any voters from Romney. The person who exposes Romney's record gets the support of the voter who changes his or her mind based on the expose. Being gentlemanly has nothing to do with targeting issues. There sure is something going on between Romney and Paul.


Romney is the same guy that in 2008 said that he would laugh at Ron, "because he wants to get rid of the CIA and the FBI", and that "he sure is laughing at him". Above I have posted a video of Romney saying this. Do you think the campaign knows this? I can't confirm this, but if they did I'm sure it would vindicate our claims that all of this fake little nice play between Ron and Romney is exactly how we see it: fake and nice. Going forward I can't see how we can continue to do this and still remain viable in the eyes of the minority of American people who value Ron, not merely because of his positions, but also because of the one trait that he has that no one else has- Authenticity. We must harness this asset going forward and start attacking with emotion, fire, passion and energy.

Oh, come on people, just turn a page back & you'll see following post of mine :



I agree with OP that Ron should attack others more & it's about the tone & body-language - it needs to be a little stronger (although I'd say he could tone down the word a LITTLE compared to OP because yes, we need to expose them but NOT alienate their supporters :D)


And it's time Ron started attacking Romney more, he's seen as the frontrunner & he needs to be attacked, even with ads & whatever IMO, following video would make a very good anti-Romney ad if we extract the relevant parts, it'd be about 30-40 seconds at best We need to sink Romney ASAP, Sanitarium & Gingbitch can be dealt with anyway!

The lack of attacks is allowing people to ASSUME that Ron & him have some kind of "deal" & what's unfortunate is that some of the supporters here have expressed their desire to support Romney/Paul where Paul would be NOTHING BUT A SHOWPONY & NOTHING WILL CHANGE So, this rumor needs to be quelled ASAP :mad:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIeekoQfqVU


YES, Ron definitely needs to attack Romney, no disagreements about that & the posted video needs to be made into an attack-ad against Romney to expose him on all the issues he's flip-flopped on - gun-rights, abortion, bailouts, healthcare, federal-mandates & what not

GopBlackList
02-13-2012, 01:56 PM
Honestly, I think playing nice to Romeny works to our advantage. Mitt's campaign can GO NUCLEAR (SuperPacs Galore) on Ron if they sense he is going to attack him.

LineHogs
02-14-2012, 12:01 AM
Honestly, I think playing nice to Romeny works to our advantage. Mitt's campaign can GO NUCLEAR (SuperPacs Galore) on Ron if they sense he is going to attack him.

Not only that but Ron Paul doesn't seem genuine when he is angry. He's not a great orator and he's not the best politician. I think it's fair to attack Romney on certain issues which Ron is willing to defend. But he needs to be very careful.

Besides.... have any of you considered WHO the Romney voters are? ..... Seriously? What's to be gained? You are talking groups of older people who are voting for the guy because he's "electable" or "presidential" ie good looking..... How many of them can Ron pull over to his sidE? Not many. The only benefit to attacking Romney is the satisfaction of Ron's base. You want him to attack Romney but it won't accomplish anything. There is no point.

Ron's going to get voters by connecting with them on liberty issues. That means caucuss states which divide delagates. The primary is like racing. You can come in 2nd or 3rd every single race and still win the cup.

Beyond that... and once again,... the entire political system is built to bring the MOST moderate candiadates to the top. there is nothing wrong with that. It's actually a good thing. So radicals like us.... ie Libertarians..... Our job is a bit different. We aren't pushing for the presidency though it would be nice. We are building support and ultimately.... showing the Republican party that if they EVER want to win another national election they need our votes which means they have to appease us on issues. Like it or not that's how it works.

And once again.... If romney were half a politician he would realize that McCain lost by a few million votes..... which ron will eventually bring. Being that Romney is NOT overly concerned with conservative social issues but rather economic ones Paul could slide in and be VERY influential on Liberty issues.

We have two main objectives as of right now. Grow the movement by spreading liberty. And try to stop both parties from stripping freedom any further. whatever accomplishes those goals is a good thing.

Paul Or Nothing II
02-14-2012, 02:21 AM
Honestly, I think playing nice to Romeny works to our advantage. Mitt's campaign can GO NUCLEAR (SuperPacs Galore) on Ron if they sense he is going to attack him.


Besides.... have any of you considered WHO the Romney voters are? ..... Seriously? What's to be gained? You are talking groups of older people who are voting for the guy because he's "electable" or "presidential" ie good looking..... How many of them can Ron pull over to his sidE? Not many. The only benefit to attacking Romney is the satisfaction of Ron's base. You want him to attack Romney but it won't accomplish anything. There is no point.

If Ron doesn't attack him then he'd be going nowhere, he MUST attack Romney & NO, it's not just" "older people" voting for Romney, there are plenty of superficial people who vote him because he's "electable", in fact, a lot of GOP doesn't like him that much due to his liberal background so irrespective of how many of his voters transfer to us, just attacking him & bringing out his true liberal background alienates more voters from him & that helps in knocking him off as the "frontrunner" & the more broken up the race is, the better for us

As for Mitt's superpacs, what's he going to do, talk about "racist newsletters" which has already been done to death :rolleyes: or talk about earmarks which has also been done to death :rolleyes: The thing is that Ron Paul is one of the cleanest men in DC & very difficult to find BIG dirt on him & that's why he should go on the offensive because he doesn't have anything to hide but his pandering-colleagues have plenty to hide which needs to be brought out in the open more than Ron usually does

TC95
02-14-2012, 09:32 AM
Hi Everyone,

I have been pondering for quite sometime as to why our message hasn't resonated with the average voter in this election cycle, and after analyzing our numbers from 2008, it is clear that Ron is on the upswing and our constituency represents the future of what will be remaining of the GOP. We are at a crossroad and I think it is time that I speak up and lay out HOW we really need to do this. We should be proud that we have grown so much in the last 4 years-However, our goal is NOT:

1) to get a speech at the GOP convention
2) to alter the platform
3) to split a ticket with some neocon

OUR GOAL IS TO WIN.

After analyzing every single debate over and over with many of you, I have come to the conclusion that it is not the message, it is the way it is being delivered. It goes without saying that While I applaud Ron for his courage and polite nature, it has gotten us no where being nice to Santorum, Newt and Romney.

Case in point: Santorum has no problem interrupting Ron any chance he gets, and he is applauded- Romney dips and dodges every complicated question unrelated to the economy and NO ONE CALLS HIM OUT. Newt is a historical Revisionist who has been on every side of every issue, but he is NEVER confronted with any emotion, or called out personally for his adulterous actions. These people are given a free stage via our media to lie to the American people in an open forum regarding their records, personal life, and intentions as president. I understand many of you "found" Ron Paul by doing your own research, but the FACT IS- Americans are lazy, lack dignity, and are dishonest to the core. I've accepted that, and I think it's something that has permeated our society to the point of no return. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I think it is finally time for someone to lay out what Ron NEEDS AND MUST SAY at the next debate which will be THE MOST CRUCIAL of any up to this point in the debate cycle.

Understand- Assuming we win Maine, we will have momentum from the win and vindication from the 2nd place finish in the latest Reuters poll as evidence of "elect-ability". This will be our WAVE. We need to ride the wave and capitalize on ANY AND ALL opportunity given to use while we are on the upswing. Here is what needs to come out at the next debate- I also include a video of Gerald Celente, only because I want to illustrate the magnitude of emotion and diction necessary to convince the AVERAGE American that Ron is the only guy who can beat Obama.

Doug Wead, John Tate, Jesse Benton, if you are reading this, I would suggest that you seriously consider my diction and choice of words, as they are not for the faint of heart or someone who wants to be "friendly". I am suggesting ALL OUT VICIOUS, SCORNFUL ATTACKS ON OUR COMPETITION. NO MORE HANDSHAKES AFTER THE DEBATE, NO MORE SMILING AND BEING POLITE. WE MEAN BUSINESS.

Ron v. Santorum on Stage- Santorum: "I'm the most conservative and can draw 'the greatest contrast with Obama"

Ron: "Senator Santorum is LYING to all of you. He is NOT the most conservative, and if you don't believe me, look at his voting record. He voted to raise the debt ceiling 5 times, while I have NEVER voted for a tax increase or unbalanced budget. He has voted against right to work legislation, while I have voted for every right to work bill as a congressman. Senator Santorum voted for Medicare part D, No child Left Behind, and has voted like a democrat for most of his career on KEY votes like this. He endorsed Pro - choice Arlen specter, who ended up being voted out. And in turn, he was also voted out of the senate in the biggest landslide in senatorial history. HE HAS NO BUSINESS TALKING ABOUT war, because he has NEVER SERVED. He does not have THE MORAL AUTHORITY to command the troops.
Death Blow- Ron: "Money talks. If my foreign policy is so bad, why do those on the front lines of the war give ME more money than all of you put together. None of you have served, none of you know what war is like, and I am the ONLY one up here that is fit to command the military, and the troops agree. ITS TIME WE END THESE WARS AND SHORE UP MEDICARE AND SS".


Ron v. Newt- Newt: "I want to reign in the federal reserve and put Ben Bernanke on the unemployment line".

Ron: "Newt has no idea what he is talking about. I have been fighting the Federal reserve for over 40 years as a congressman, and have written several books on monetary theory and ending the fed. Newt is an opportunist who has realized that more and more people have been coming around to the position that I have taken, and he is seeking to hijack my position for his own political benefit. Newt, as speaker of the house you never once mentioned an audit of the federal reserve as a top priority. You have never worked one day in the private sector, and have spent most of your life sucking off the public dole in government, or benefiting monetarily as an influence peddler for Freddie Mac, WHILE I WAS FIGHTING it. I called the housing bubble in 2003, while you were busy lobbying- your firm made 1.6 million from the taxpayers. Worst of all Newt, you claim to be a Reagan conservative, but Reagan never once mentioned you as a key proponent of any policy. He even took note that your military policy would hurt our defense capabilities. I led the texas delegation for Reagan in 76, and Reagan endorsed my military views in 1980. You are NOT FIT to serve as commander in chief of our military, as you have never served.

Death Blow: Ron:"You are a serial hypocrite, and you have been on every side of every issue. You have sat and done commercials with Nancy Pelosi. If you sat down with Pelosi to support carbon taxes, open borders and internationalism once, how can u reassure the american people you won't do it again?"


Ron v. Romney- Romney: "My plan will cut the budget 1 trillion over 10 years and strengthen our military, preserve SS and medicare for our seniors, and balance the budget"

Ron: "Governor Romney is betting that most of you won't go online and look at his budget, or inquire about how he plans to meet all of these goals. He is very dishonest in his presentation of the facts. Where is the money going to come from? Are you going to raise 'fees' like you did in Massachusetts? Any money taken from the people is a TAX. YOU ARE A TAX RAISER, and a big spender. Only when it comes to other people's money. You cannot have an empire in 130 countries and promise that SS and medicare will be there in 5-10 years. It is just impossible. If seniors truly want their SS and medicare, I am the only one who will use resources spent on embassies in Baghdad to shore up SS and medicare. I'll put our drones in the pacific and on the border- and design a military strategy focused on DEFENDING this country, not the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. I will eliminate all foreign aid uniformly and without discrimination, and shore up programs like child healthcare.

Death Blow: I WILL BE AN 'AMERICA FIRST' president, and not spend one american dollar, or put one american life in danger unless its totally necessary. Governor Romney would send your kids, nephews, brothers sons and friends into war, but won't send his own. In fact, during the Vietnam war, you were a missionary in France. when you came back, you criticized people for protesting, and even took to the streets in doing so. If I were to look up "chicken hawk in the dictionary, I would see your picture. You are the true definition of a chicken hawk. You have no business talking about war, because you have never gotten into anything as much as a schoolyard fight. You represent the corporations, and not populist America. your top three contributors are Goldman, JP Morgan, and Citigroup. My top 3 contributors are the US AIR FORCE, US ARMY and THE NAVY"


Please review and watch the emotion and candor of Gerald celente in his analysis of what we need to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=6Qq6v75td6s

While I don't want to come off as a nutjob or right wing lunatic, Gerald is spot on. we need to take the gloves off and stand firm.


I have outlined above what we need to say at the debates. This is not an option. I will not be donating any more money to this campaign unless Ron starts reciprocating the anathemas that have been hurled at him by each of these men and the media, throughout this campaign. I love Ron, but like I said before, desperate times call for desperate measures. While I recognize it has been politically expedient to lay low and not attack, and allow the race to take a shape (for a potential brokered convention), it is now time to draw the line in the sand with these people. These men up on stage do not represent us, or our values or ideals. They are criminals, and need to be exposed for what they are, even if it means Ron is portrayed as "rude" or "out of step with the mainstream". I know Ron has no problem saying how he feels, but the time for being politically correct and sitting back is over. I will be donating the rest of what I am available to donate on Feb 14, but after that I will not be donating again until I see emotion and raw attacks.


I urge everyone who feels the same to get behind me and influence the campaign. We need the people at the top to see what we are seeing. time is running out. This may be our last chance.

I agree 100%. Have you shared these thoughts with the campaign? I think you should e-mail it to them. In fact, e-mail this whole thread. It's time to get down and get dirty with these DIRTY, LYING politicians!

remraf
02-25-2012, 01:08 PM
I think Dr. Paul needs to show he is a BOSS! No more smiles, no more jokes. He needs to be assertive and in command of the debates. I know he can because I have seen it before. I know what he is talking about and it all makes sense. But a lot of people may not understand how serious his message is. I know he is the most serious man on the the campaign, but sometimes I think he comes off as laughable, loveable Dr Paul. Instead he needs to speak with authority, point a finger, and make Americans understand what is going to happen to the country if he is not elected. Most people I run into everyday don't realise we are in the shadow of the greates economic collapse in the history of the universe.

remraf
03-08-2012, 04:34 PM
kinda like this (although it is rather funny)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi1nxu-Sy-w

coffeewithchess
03-17-2012, 11:31 PM
Honestly, I think playing nice to Romeny works to our advantage. Mitt's campaign can GO NUCLEAR (SuperPacs Galore) on Ron if they sense he is going to attack him.

This is what a lot of people have been saying, the problem with it...Romney went nuclear on Santorum, and Santorum has actually/is actually winning states.
RP has barely touched Romney, but ran an attack ad on Santorum in Michigan helping Romney win...but didn't attack Romney in the first one-on-one state opportunity in Virginia?