View Full Version : Iraq Getting Better?
11-12-2007, 12:52 PM
Fox News would report that.
It is getting better. Our work there can now be graded as a C, instead of a D.
But so what? It's be even better when we leave!
11-12-2007, 01:28 PM
So if it's getting better, we're supposed to stay? What about if it gets worse? Either we stay independent of the results, which is exactly what people fear when they talk about the American Empire and which gives Iraq no incentives to pick up the slack, or we get less involved the worse things get, which obviously makes no sense. We simply can't afford (financially or militarily) to get more involved, as we all already know.
Sometimes I think the next best thing to just leaving, and maybe even a better option from the perspective of stability in Iraq, is leaving but offering them money if they can keep the violence down. We'd probably be paying less than we do now, and they'd finally start investing in their own country's reconstruction. The only problem is accountability.
Ron Paul Fan
11-12-2007, 01:55 PM
If it was a mistake to go, then it's a mistake to stay. If we made the wrong diagnosis we should change the treatment.
11-12-2007, 02:41 PM
according to some people i know from my city who have fled iraq during the sadam regime:
"the times under sadam were better then they are now under the americans."
and that quote comes from people who have been tortured by sadams men.
this is a real and serious comment.
ps. they and their family who are still living in Iraq are saying: "america should get the F*ck out of our country" (=iraq).
11-12-2007, 02:49 PM
I would like to see some real figures of just how much violence is occurring in Iraq currently. The only charts and graphs I can find go up to around July--At which time the violence was roughly the highest since we have been over there.
11-12-2007, 02:50 PM
I'm just saying that there's been a sudden change that has been good. If it keeps going like this then we'll be able to pull out in 2009 with no harm done.
Yeah, no harm but a few thousand more dead.
And you're just pulled the year 2009 out of your ass.
If someone told you that they bought a kitchen gadget for around 300 billion dollars and in the five years they've had it, not once has it done its job...but in the past two months it seems like it's starting work, kinda, and things aren't like they were supposed to be but at least it's not locked up and doing nothing anymore...still, this gadget killed a couple of family members who tried in vain to make it work...
Would you tell them that that's a sure sign they need to keep the gadget and keep making payments to the company they got it from in the vain hope that it will eventually turn out to be the best thing they ever invested in?
11-12-2007, 03:08 PM
All this "it is getting better!" propoganda is designed to make the war a non-issue in the next election, since the Democrats have apparently decided they didn't really want to pull out after all.
11-12-2007, 03:53 PM
It is clear that things do appear to be getting better, but remember that we've been there for what, 4 years now? Things were better after we roto-rooted Fallujah a few years ago too.
Kind of like investing, you have to look at these events in the long-term---just when you think things are getting good, is when the insurgents and terrorists take a timeout, re-tool their tactics, and launch a new offensive.
We can just come home.
11-12-2007, 04:03 PM
The situation in Iraq is getting a lot better. Do you think it would be wise to pull out right away? It'll be more clear when Paul is in office.
It seems like sectarian violence won't rise again. Al-Sadr isn't going to fight and the Iraqis are turning people in left and right.
Faux snooze, HaHa haaa!!!
He is quoting Faux , thats funny right there, ,I don't care who you are.
Getting better for who?
11-12-2007, 04:14 PM
Yeah, it's getting better...in a few territories, while Turkey is inflamed, and Pakistan is on a verge of a meltdown. The enemy is fueled by our occupations by giving justification to the lies they spread about America causing otherwise sane Muslims to become radicalized. Where ever our troops are, we will have success, but it's like a dam. You plug up a few holes, and the water just spurts out somewhere else.
I understand the threat of radical Islam, but I think Ron Pauls approach is better for our own national security and prosperity. We're not increasing stability in the Middle East as a whole...we're making it worse.
11-12-2007, 04:20 PM
The only legitimate purpose of government is to protect the life, liberty, and property of it's citizens, and all three are drastically worsened by the war in Iraq.
The longer we stay in Iraq the more terrorism will be provoke against the U.S and its citizens.
The more U.S. citizens will die. Over 1,000 contractors already have.
The longer we stay in Iraq more of our soldiers will die.
The longer we stay in Iraq the more soldiers will get hurt physically and mentally.
Coinciding with the war in Iraq and the war on the tactic of terrorism, the civil liberties of American have eroded drastically.
The longer we stay the greater the urge for congress to write new laws that erode our freedoms.
American citizens no longer have the protection of the Constitution.
This unprovoked invasion has cost our country over a trillion dollars at this point.
We are deficit spending, not only taking additional taxes from the people today, but from our taxpayers of the future.
Every day we stay in Iraq, and the 100's of other countries, the more we embolden the people of the world to support terrorist organizations such as aQ.
I would much rather have our troops defend the U.S. than Korea, Iraq, Japan, or Germany. We would stop provoking terrorism and have a stronger national defense.
11-12-2007, 04:22 PM
....If it keeps going like this then we'll be able to pull out in 2009 with no harm done.
What is the Iraqi civilian death toll up to now? Something like 500,000+. What's the American military death toll up to? How many of our troops have been maimed? How much has been spent? We passed "no harm done" a LONG time ago.
11-12-2007, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by F3d View Post
....If it keeps going like this then we'll be able to pull out in 2009 with no harm done.
What twisted,bizaro universe are you coming from?
There has been GREAT harm done.
11-12-2007, 04:42 PM
The issue is should we keep funding a war that violates the constitution and international law?
As long as we are pouring billions into this war we are loosing.
This year has been the worst...nothing is getting better. That 'new strategy' horseshit is dangerous nonsense. They did the same thing in Fallujah...it blew right back into their face and they lost the whole city. They know it won't work..it's just war propaganda.
Check out Antiwar.com - not fox.
11-12-2007, 06:22 PM
I mean if it got better in 2009 then we wouldn't have to pull out. That would definitely mean a civil war and that's far worse than getting it done in 2009. Does anyone have any statistics on how big the Iraqi army is now? It was pathetic before and I wonder if it's the same now. Not to mention, they're made up of the insurgents also. I guess you guys are right, it was kind of exaggerated because Iraqi deaths were still high and U.S. deaths were still like some months. They seem to coordinate more attacks in some months than others.
What?? Where the hell is Your head at?
I mean if it got better in 2009 then we wouldn't have to pull out.
We should have been out years ago.
What the HELL is "we wouldn't have to".
Do you like to see Americans Killed for no good reason, or do you just LOVE WAR.
Maybe it is the killing of innocent people and inciting hatred that gets you off.
We should not be there.
We can not pull out soon enough. We have caused enough damage.
11-12-2007, 06:47 PM
Right NOW!!! Yesterday. We can't get out soon enough. We should have NEVER been there.
I DON"T CARE if they have a civil war as long as American Troops ARE NOT THERE.
They can do what ever they want to, it's their country. If they want a King or a bunch of Warlords, it is none of our business.
11-12-2007, 07:25 PM
WE can not stop a civil war by staying over there. Staying over there only incites a stronger civil war! The people of iraq want us out! The iraqi government wants us out! What kind of logic would propose that its a good idea to stay? I don't see how this works.
They are pissed because we are over there. Would you be pissed if people were over here in your country, coming into your houses at night looking for bad guys, accidentally killing your family members? I'm pretty sure you would be.
11-12-2007, 07:51 PM
Things are getting better despite of us.
Things would get a lot better a lot faster if we would just get out of the way.
11-12-2007, 11:25 PM
I know. I'm not talking about those months though. I'm talking about the recent months and how it'll play out in the next few months. The Iraqis are starting to turn them in, and this hasn't happened any time else during the war.
i dont know what you are talking about. iraqis are turning in who? it is the americans who are targeting civilians... one of my acquaintances told me he and his family had been shot at last august when he was in iraq... he had been shot at by american troops. and it still happens on a daily base. and it will continue to happen aswell. americans are so busy protecting their own asses that they cant make any distinction and see any iraqi as a possible freedomfighter.
and i also read about insurgents... it are freedomfighters, thats the more correct word if you ask me. you are illegally occupying a sovereign state. you decapitated it and now there is a major civil war going on.
i didnt expect to read this bullshhhh in Ron Paul forums about america making the situation in iraq better. this bullshhh is exactly what makes americans hated all over the world, including in europe. when do you people understand that you are making things worse? Due to my work i am in contact with hundreds of people from all over europe, and i rarely encounter someone who likes the usa. i think 98%+ hates americans. the stupidity, the arrogance, the agressiveness, etc.
and well... its not that we are holy either... we follow your footsteps, our countries are following the example that america is setting. so ron paul is for us also a possible escape from being agressive states.
a nuerenberg tribunal would convict every single leader of the countries that are currently occupying iraq and afghanistan.
americans making friends in iraq:
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