on Drudge: FBI warns of threat from anti-government extremists

[affa]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-usa-fbi-extremists-idUSTRE81600V20120207

"Anti-government extremists opposed to taxes and regulations pose a growing threat to local law enforcement officers in the United States, the FBI warned on Monday."

It's about Sovereign Citizens, but the description of them within the article talks about people who are 'against taxes', 'against regulations', who 'believe the United States went bankrupt by going off the gold standard'.

Pure unadulterated anti-Ron Paul propaganda.

[libertyfanatic]

This was to be expected

[ninepointfive]

And at the same time, legitimizes a force to be reckoned with =)

[mosquitobite]

I've said since NDAA passed they will use the tea party and OWS as scapegoats to implement their plan.

[Okie RP fan]

Bring it on.

That's all I have to say.

Liberty cannot and will not be stopped.

[Monotaur]

Oh shit. I guess I picked the wrong day to add another Ron Paul bumper sticker to my car... :-)

EDIT: The second sticker is a "Ron Paul Revolution" sticker too.

[FrankRep]

"Anti-government extremists opposed to taxes and regulations pose a growing threat to local law enforcement officers in the United States, the FBI warned on Monday."

Tangents: Neutralizing movements that undermine the work of patriotic Americans to preserve freedom (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?258001-Tangents-Neutralizing-Movements-That-Undermine-the-Work-of-Patriotic-Americans-...)


Don't get manipulated. Big Government WANTS conflict between local police and the liberty movement.

Problem -> Reaction -> Big Government Solution.


=====



http://www.jbs.org/images/stories/sylp-banner-2.jpg (http://www.jbs.org/issues-pages/support-your-local-police)



http://vimeo.com/29287031

[mrsat_98]

Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies.

[Diurdi]

Wasn't there some hollywood movie where the national security was run by some massive omnipotent supercomputer, which ultimately realized that it was itself the biggest threat to the national security by being so invasive and unconstitutional?

[jay_dub]

So, I guess we're now officially 'the enemy'.

[Ben Bernanke]

The glove is coming off the iron fist.

[Simple]

Must be the Obama 2012 Election strat: jail the competition.

[ONUV]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[MsDoodahs]

Don't get manipulated. Big Government WANTS conflict between local police and the liberty movement.

Problem -> Reaction -> Big Government Solution.

This.

Seriously, this.

[MMXII]

Seriously....
At some level, who isn't anti-government??
The country was founded by anti-government types.

[The Binghamton Patriot]

The glove is coming off the iron fist.

this

[LiveForHonortune]

Local LEOs?

Didn't the feds get the message when sheriffs from all around the country threatened to sic their SWAT teams at em? Don't make the K9 units release the hounds.

[affa]

Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies.

exactly.

[TurkishMarch]

Here's an FBI analysis (http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens) on "Sovereign Citizens."

[Endthefednow]

Local LEOs?

Didn't the feds get the message when sheriffs from all around the country threatened to sic their SWAT teams at em? Don't make the K9 units release the hounds.

Indeed

[donnay]

They are setting the narrative for a possible false flag so they can blame it on, Ron Paul Supporters (Think MIAC Report) and anyone who is against the Federal Reserve, Income Taxes, and who is Anti-War. We need to stay vigilant and point it so it can be stopped!!!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell

[Liberty74]

And let the government stage event(s) (false flags) begin. This is serious shit people. Their plan has been in the works for a long time. Janet Napolatino set the stage years ago with her speech claiming the real terrorists are returning white veterans, anti-tax, anti-big government people and groups.

I fear something big is going to happen soon...

It just seems that everything is place - Patriotic Act destroys 4th. NDAA destroys 5th. FEMA camps are ready. Marshall Law has been threatened. TSA conditioning of people to submit to authority for years. Internet Kill Switch is in place. And to top it all off China practically owns us.

Remember, I have been saying for weeks that Ron needs a big event to happen to turn around his campaign and to awaken the masses. To me, Ron is hanging in the race for such event (whatever it may be) to capitalize on it. I have heard Feb 21 and Mar 20 are very important dates this year. It's when Greece begins its collapse spreading across to Latin America, Mexico, then the U.S. Damn, I just frightened myself.

[mosquitobite]

One prevalent sovereign-citizen theory is the Redemption Theory, which claims the U.S. government went bankrupt when it abandoned the gold standard basis for currency in 1933 and began using citizens as collateral in trade agreements with foreign governments. These beliefs can provide a gateway to illegal activity because such individuals believe the U.S. government does not act in the best interests of the American people. By announcing themselves as sovereign citizens, they are emancipated from the responsibilities of being a U.S. citizen, including paying taxes, possessing a state driver’s license, or obeying the law.
:rolleyes:

[Pericles]

So, I guess we're now officially 'the enemy'.

Do RPF members get official anti-government extremist membership cards?

[onlyrp]

Sovereign Citizens movement IS dangerous, those people have no respect for the law.

I don't agree with SPLC on everything, but I think they did a rather fair job documenting these people on this report.
http://www.redcrayons.net/splc_kane.pdf

[onlyrp]

So, I guess we're now officially 'the enemy'.

Unless you actually identify with the sovereign citizens movement and their arguments, no, they are not referring to YOU.

You are not an enemy or terrorist just because you support Ron Paul or own a gun, and not because you might believe there's an NWO.

They're talking about people who literally don't recognize the federal government, play word games with police, don't follow license plate laws, sign papers in red crayon, think that saying "I understand" makes them "stand under" and somehow that's the first step to giving the court authority over them.

These people are not your average "I hate paying taxes, let's repeal tax laws and abolish IRS and end the Fed", they actually believe they are immune to taxation based on how their name is spelled or how their birth certificate looks (google "redemption movement"), they further believe that gold borders on a flag makes all courts unconstitutional (and wonder why their nonsense in court is called contempt).

Loving freedom and wanting to work for change is GOOD, but disrespect for law and your fellow citizens like these people is NOT COOL. I recommend people to stay away from these crazy people, they'll only get you in trouble if you listen to their advice. The patriot movement, militia movement and libertarians are all cool, sovereign citizens are the most fringe, insane and non-credible conspiracy theorists that are best to avoid. This is my experience, I hope nobody learns the hard way.

[The Goat]

Here's an FBI analysis (http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens) on "Sovereign Citizens."

From the FBI analysis

They may refer to themselves as “constitutionalists” or “freemen,”

[affa]

Unless you actually identify with the sovereign citizens movement and their arguments, no, they are not referring to YOU.

Bull. The average person reading this has no idea what a 'sovereign citizen' is. They DO, however, hear being 'anti-tax', 'anti-regulation', and 'for a gold standard' being equated with 'dangerous extremism'.

The propaganda is clear and thick.

[affa]

Sovereign Citizens movement IS dangerous, those people have no respect for the law.

I have no respect for the law. I am not dangerous.

[tommyzDad]

Wasn't there some hollywood movie where the national security was run by some massive omnipotent supercomputer, which ultimately realized that it was itself the biggest threat to the national security by being so invasive and unconstitutional?

Eagle Eye?
Judge Dredd?
Colossus: The Forbin Project?
West Side Story?
The Sound of Music?

[Schiff_FTW]

Sovereign Citizens movement IS dangerous, those people have no respect for the law.


Oh no, not "the law". :rolleyes:

[onlyrp]

From the FBI analysis

They may refer to themselves as “constitutionalists” or “freemen,”

that is inaccurate. Sovereign citizens usually refer to themselves as "sovereigns" and say "common law" before they say "constitution" or "constitutionalists".

[onlyrp]

I have no respect for the law. I am not dangerous.

Really? What have you done to reflect your lack of respect? Don't tell me you're all talk.

[onlyrp]

Bull. The average person reading this has no idea what a 'sovereign citizen' is. They DO, however, hear being 'anti-tax', 'anti-regulation', and 'for a gold standard' being equated with 'dangerous extremism'.

The propaganda is clear and thick.

You are correct, the average person doesn't have an idea. And we here should know a bit better.

And no, sovereign citizens are not simply anti-tax, anti-regulation and pro-gold standard, they are anti-law and anti-government (THAT is dangerous extremism).
Wanting to change laws for the better is not dangerous, advocating disobedience before that is.

[FrankRep]

Tangents: Neutralizing movements that undermine the work of patriotic Americans to preserve freedom (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?258001-Tangents-Neutralizing-Movements-That-Undermine-the-Work-of-Patriotic-Americans-...)

====


Tangent: The “State Citizen” or “Sovereign Citizen” (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=258001&p=2853645)



Those who think they are somehow striking a blow for freedom by not using driver’s licenses, marriage certificates, or zip codes, or by sitting in a courtroom or jail cell for not paying taxes — the so-called “patriots” and “tax protesters” — will not attract the people needed to win this struggle. The responsible people we need have no time for such nonsense and will avoid these misguided would-be patriots like the plague.

— JBS VP Tom Gow, JBS Bulletin, June 1995

Our only possible safety lies in victory.

— Robert Welch, April 1968 Bulletin


This fugitive reaction to growing federal power embraces a variety of bizarre notions. In general, their common theme is the idea that the individual can declare himself sovereign and independent of existing federal law. One brand of the “sovereign citizen” movement bases its thinking on a clause in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution granting Congress the power to exercise exclusive legislation over the District of Columbia. Advocates of this idea purport that the clause means that only those born in D.C. are subject to the broader powers of Congress, and thus they regard themselves as state citizens exempt from federal taxes and other federal laws.

To become a state citizen, they say, one need only renounce his federal citizenship. Other adherents of this notion disclaim both state and federal citizenship and assert that they, as individuals, are independently sovereign and not subject to any laws at all. The Conspiracy, of course, would smile on such bizarre conduct. It would undoubtedly prefer that all “patriotic” Americans follow the precepts of the “sovereign citizen” movement, as those doing so can easily be held up to scorn and rendered ineffective at influencing others.

Fortunately, “sovereign citizen” advocates are few in number. They spend much of their time in court, in jail, or even in disguise — without identification or credit cards. Some refuse to carry a driver’s license or apply license plates to their vehicles. The “sovereign citizen” has imprisoned himself and is of no value in the fight for freedom. Actually, his actions make him worse than useless — he is a detriment to the freedom fight, because he usually tries to vindicate his course by recruiting others to his heresy.

[onlyrp]

Don't get manipulated. Big Government WANTS conflict between local police and the liberty movement.

Problem -> Reaction -> Big Government Solution.


Frank, you know what's funny?

Sovereign citizens are the trouble makers that regularly seek trouble with local police.
Where as decent, freedom loving, law abiding conservatives, patriots, Constitutionalists, respect local police and work with them.
So whether sovereign citizens are sincerely deluded or false flag government ops, ALWAYS AVOID THEM.
RUN whenever you hear somebody say they the police have no authority to check for his license, or ask him to have license plate.
RUN whenever you hear somebody say they dont have a name, or their all caps name makes them a corporation, or that saying 'I understand' creates a contract to allow authority over them, ....
General rule : don't seek legal advice from a non-lawyer. (this is not directed at Frank, just reminding everybody not to be stupid)

[Luciconsort]

Bring it on.

That's all I have to say.

Liberty cannot and will not be stopped.

Molon Labe!!

[onlyrp]

Tangents: Neutralizing movements that undermine the work of patriotic Americans to preserve freedom (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?258001-Tangents-Neutralizing-Movements-That-Undermine-the-Work-of-Patriotic-Americans-...)



thanks for this!! I don't even need to read the article to know what it's about. EXACTLY.

9/11 conspiracy theorists and sovereign citizens movement both do GREAT harm to hard working patriots.
We should act to CHANGE laws, not disobey them, and we should encourage open government, not accuse them first.

[The One]

Molon Labe!!


Yeah!!! Moron Babe!!!!!!!!

[MikeStanart]

thanks for this!! I don't even need to read the article to know what it's about. EXACTLY.

9/11 conspiracy theorists and sovereign citizens movement both do GREAT harm to hard working patriots.
We should act to CHANGE laws, not disobey them, and we should encourage open government, not accuse them first.

An unjust law is no law at all.

[onlyrp]

An unjust law is no law at all.

any criminal can say that. But I don't see you come to their defense each time you hear it.

[Danke]

An unjust law is no law at all.

The Supreme Court has basically said this. An unconstitutional law is void at conception.

[onlyrp]

The Supreme Court has basically said this. An unconstitutional law is void at conception.

except, they get to decide what's unconstitutional.

[theswedishchef]

Once again Alex Jones is proven right

[Hospitaller]

Once again Alex Jones is proven right

Its ridiculous how far ahead of the curve that man is.

[Brian4Liberty]

Here's an FBI analysis (http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens) on "Sovereign Citizens."

Interesting read. And they left the SPLC out of their footnotes.

"Did you just mention the Bible? Hands where I can see them!"


Several indicators can help identify these individuals.

References to the Bible, The Constitution of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court decisions, or treaties with foreign governments.

[Pauls' Revere]

Wasn't there some hollywood movie where the national security was run by some massive omnipotent supercomputer, which ultimately realized that it was itself the biggest threat to the national security by being so invasive and unconstitutional?

YEP!

Eagle Eye

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/eagle-eye/

[Brian4Liberty]

that is inaccurate. Sovereign citizens usually refer to themselves as "sovereigns" and say "common law" before they say "constitution" or "constitutionalists".

Hello? McFly? Of course it isn't accurate! That's the whole point. They take a few crazy people and extrapolate that to include a huge percent of the population. This is standard operating for the SPLC, who you seem to use as some kind of resource. Did you read the document that you called inaccurate? You are disputing a direct quote.

If you have some anecdotal story about someone who is a crazed murderer who calls themselves a "sovereign citizen", feel free to tell us about it.

If you have some anecdotal story about someone who gets involved in petty, futile, or time wasting confrontations with authorities who calls themselves a "sovereign citizen", feel free to tell us about it, but don't call that violence or terrorism.

And there's no way you can legitimately make a gross generalization about people who talk about the Bible, the Constitution or Gold based on a few anecdotal stories. That's collectivism at it's worse.

Ron Paul believes in sound money and the rule of law. Talking about the gold standard or sound money is not an excuse for law enforcement to treat someone like violent criminal.

[onlyrp]

Interesting read. And they left the SPLC out of their footnotes.

"Did you just mention the Bible? Hands where I can see them!"

References to the Bible, The Constitution of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court decisions, or treaties with foreign governments8
(I don't agree with this point, since many people use this, and its not a good indicator)

The below are good points that indicate sovereign citizens movement arguments that I honestly have seen and heard nowhere else (please let me know if you have)

Personal names spelled in all capital letters or interspersed with colons (e.g., JOHN SMITH or Smith: John)
Signatures followed by the words “under duress,” “Sovereign Living Soul” (SLS), or a copyright symbol (©)
Personal seals, stamps, or thumb prints in red ink
The words “accepted for value”9

[onlyrp]

Hello? McFly? Of course it isn't accurate! That's the whole point. They take a few crazy people and extrapolate that to include a huge percent of the population. This is standard operating for the SPLC, who you seem to use as some kind of resource. Did you read the document that you called inaccurate? You are disputing a direct quote.

If you have some anecdotal story about someone who is a crazed murderer who calls themselves a "sovereign citizen", feel free to tell us about it.

If you have some anecdotal story about someone who gets involved in petty, futile, or time wasting confrontations with authorities who calls themselves a "sovereign citizen", feel free to tell us about it, but don't call that violence or terrorism.

And there's no way you can legitimately make a gross generalization about people who talk about the Bible, the Constitution or Gold based on a few anecdotal stories. That's collectivism at it's worse.

Ron Paul believes in sound money and the rule of law. Talking about the gold standard or sound money is not an excuse for law enforcement to treat someone like violent criminal.

they werent murderers, they were smartasses to policemen, and then to courts, they got in trouble for either obstruction or contempt on top of their original (very minor) traffic violations. they didn't cause anybody to be hurt back then, but their mentality of being above the law will get somebody hurt if they continue down that path.

I agree that cherry picking the Bible or Constitution doesn't make you dangerous. Sovereign citizens who are dangerous are rarely people who cite documents you are familiar with. They cite books and websites by crazy people and court decisions nobody has heard of.

I further agree that Ron Paul's beliefs are NOT dangerous and NOT warranted to be treated as criminal or violent. I even said, even militia people are not dangerous. Its not the fact somebody has a gun, but the belief they are immune from authority that makes them dangerous.

I definitely don't agree to any generalization, which is why I am very specific about their beliefs and attitudes and behaviors. So people here can know them, and choose to avoid them , rather than be fooled to get in any unnecessary trouble.

[Sullivan*]

Eagle Eye?
Judge Dredd?
Colossus: The Forbin Project?
West Side Story?
The Sound of Music?
The first one... Just on a side note, fuck Shia LeBeouf. Except for Constantine, that was OK.

[Brian4Liberty]

they werent murderers, they were smartasses to policemen, and then to courts, they got in trouble for either obstruction or contempt on top of their original (very minor) traffic violations. they didn't cause anybody to be hurt back then, ...

Over the years I have met a couple of people who called themselves "sovereign citizens" at different workplaces (pre-Ron Paul). One guy was constantly filing paperwork in order to stop paying income taxes. Another guy really didn't take it any farther than saying he believed he was a "sovereign citizen" and buying gold mining stocks, but he never did anything like file paperwork or get confrontational with anyone. Neither was dangerous in the slightest.

Feel free to say that some individuals do stupid things, but don't defend any of these generalizing, collectivist "reports" (propaganda).

[onlyrp]

Over the years I have met a couple of people who called themselves "sovereign citizens" at different workplaces (pre-Ron Paul). One guy was constantly filing paperwork in order to stop paying income taxes. Another guy really didn't take it any farther than saying he believed he was a "sovereign citizen" and buying gold mining stocks, but he never did anything like file paperwork or get confrontational with anyone. Neither was dangerous in the slightest.

Feel free to say that some individuals do stupid things, but don't defend any of these generalizing, collectivist "reports" (propaganda).

fair enough.

If they file papers that are false liens, its called "paper terrorism", not saying thats what your friend did, but that's one other characteristic of the "fringe dangerous group of people I am referring to, and not including rational people like you".

Sometimes, the easiest way to find out what kind of person they are, is just ask them : do you pay taxes? If not, why? if they say "I don't want to, I don't make enough" that's one thing. If they start with the "I am not a person, I am not a taxpayer, I don't make income, the 16th amendment was never ratified", then you start getting into sovereign citizen terroritory.

If you ask them why their name is in all caps, or if they are a US citizen, it becomes obvious. If you ask them what they say to police when stopped on the road, that's another easy giveaway, people are only really worthy of concern when they start disrespecting the law and law enforcement officers.

[Boss]

lolwut @ the 3rd criterion regarding the gold standard

[kuckfeynes]

I believe in everything a "sovereign citizen" stands for... I am just not about to stick my neck out.
Taxation is theft, period, end of story. Every dollar I pay is under duress. If the mob did it it would be called extortion.
And unless you would voluntarily pony up whatever is asked of you by a gov't without any threat of coercion, you are in no place to judge.
I say hats off to the people that are willing to sacrifice themselves to prove a point. I wish I had that much courage.

[Vessol]

I believe in everything a "sovereign citizen" stands for... I am just not about to stick my neck out.
Taxation is theft, period, end of story. Every dollar I pay is under duress. If the mob did it it would be called extortion.
And unless you would voluntarily pony up whatever is asked of you by a gov't without any threat of coercion, you are in no place to judge.
I say hats off to the people that are willing to sacrifice themselves to prove a point. I wish I had that much courage.

This.

This story is not targeted at a certain group. Note how they didn't capitalize whenever referring to this "group". It's meant to demonize anyone who espouses those ideas.

[abruzz0]

From this message board, who would you want to sit next to in the bus on our way to the FEMA camps?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

From this message board, who would you want to sit next to in the bus on our way to the FEMA camps?

Rail cars are still more efficient than buses. Even in Germany they kept it 'under-the-radar'. Can't have loads of buses with Fema prisoners driving down the I-95...., but who knows I wouldn't put it past the boobisie to not care and go back to their regularly scheduled TV brainwashing.

[Lothario]

Sovereign citizens are the trouble makers that regularly seek trouble with local police.
Where as decent, freedom loving, law abiding conservatives, patriots, Constitutionalists, respect local police and work with them.

Not only do I have no respect for the police, but I am not aware of a more criminal organization. And after seeing the results of the Stanford prison experiment - I can think of no one more worthy of fear.

[affa]

Really? What have you done to reflect your lack of respect? Don't tell me you're all talk.

Seriously? My actions are my own. I do what I do because it's what I stand for, not because of the existence or non-existence of a law. I suppose you believe every anarchist needs to be on some murder spree to prove they're an anarchist? Absurd.

[onlyrp]

Seriously? My actions are my own. I do what I do because it's what I stand for, not because of the existence or non-existence of a law. I suppose you believe every anarchist needs to be on some murder spree to prove they're an anarchist? Absurd.

Yes, I believe that. Or specifically, if you're an anarchist just hoping to achieve anarchism, that's not lacking respect for the law and government today. But if you claim you do, why not act like you do? Otherwise how do you know you're serious about why you do or don't something? Or I can ask further, why do you stand for what you do? Just because it feels right?

[affa]

I definitely don't agree to any generalization, which is why I am very specific about their beliefs and attitudes and behaviors. So people here can know them, and choose to avoid them , rather than be fooled to get in any unnecessary trouble.

How about you don't need to play dad and pretend to 'understand' something you obviously don't as you warn us against something that exists in your head. This article is clearly trying to conflate Ron Paul supporters with 'dangerous'. You're free to go on your personal crusade, but don't expect us to buy what you're selling. Your fear mongering is no different from that found in the damn article posted.

[affa]

Yes, I believe that. Or specifically, if you're an anarchist just hoping to achieve anarchism, that's not lacking respect for the law and government today. But if you claim you do, why not act like you do? Otherwise how do you know you're serious about why you do or don't something? Or I can ask further, why do you stand for what you do? Just because it feels right?

You have no clue what you're talking about. Zero. None. Zip. Seriously, that's one of the most absurd and left field interpretations of anarchism I've ever read. I suppose Ron Paul needs to snort heroin to prove he doesn't believe we need to legislate drugs, too.

[onlyrp]

How about you don't need to play dad and pretend to 'understand' something you obviously don't as you warn us against something that exists in your head. This article is clearly trying to conflate Ron Paul supporters with 'dangerous'. You're free to go on your personal crusade, but don't expect us to buy what you're selling. Your fear mongering is no different from that found in the damn article posted.

No, the article isn't clearly conflating Ron Paul supporters as anything, but you want to read that in yourself, be my guest.
Don't say I didn't warn you, I'll laugh if anybody gets in trouble for playing sovereign citizens games.
Yes, I am fear mongering, my fear mongering is to keep people from getting arrested for stupid things, you don't need to make bad friends to get in trouble, I hope none of you hear ever do.

[onlyrp]

You have no clue what you're talking about. Zero. None. Zip. Seriously, that's one of the most absurd and left field interpretations of anarchism I've ever read. I suppose Ron Paul needs to snort heroin to prove he doesn't believe we need to legislate drugs, too.

I never said you're an anarchist, you brought that up yourself. You just said you have no respect for the law, and I was asking if you're all talk.

Apparently you are. Ron Paul never claimed to disrespect the law, he just wants to change it. Nice try putting words in the good man's mouth.

Find me one quote where Ron Paul says he disrespects the law and only abides the law by coincidence (which is what you claim yourself to be).

So, you can show me where you disrespect the law and what you've done, or else just admit you abide by the law (don't expect me to believe you abide by coincidence).

[affa]

No, the article isn't clearly conflating Ron Paul supporters as anything, but you want to read that in yourself, be my guest.
Don't say I didn't warn you, I'll laugh if anybody gets in trouble for playing sovereign citizens games.
Yes, I am fear mongering, my fear mongering is to keep people from getting arrested for stupid things, you don't need to make bad friends to get in trouble, I hope none of you hear ever do.

Putting up that article talking about "anti-tax", "anti-regulation", "gold standard proponents" in the middle of the Republican primary where all three of those are big topics is clearly propaganda. If you want to keep your head in the sand, be my guest.

As for "you don't need to make bad friends to get in trouble"... man, you're a comedian.

how the hell do you have over 1000 posts in less than a month of being here?

[affa]

I never said you're an anarchist, you brought that up yourself. You just said you have no respect for the law, and I was asking if you're all talk.

do you understand the meaning of the word 'respect'? from your post, it doesn't seem that you do.

i mean, seriously, your stance is patently ridiculous and shows absolutely no understanding of anarchism.

[onlyrp]

Putting up that article talking about "anti-tax", "anti-regulation", "gold standard proponents" in the middle of the Republican primary where all three of those are big topics is clearly propaganda. If you want to keep your head in the sand, be my guest.

As for "you don't need to make bad friends to get in trouble"... man, you're a comedian.

how the hell do you have over 1000 posts in less than a month of being here?

i have my post count having to respond to nonsense like you.
anti-tax is not unique to Ron Paul, nor is anti-regulation.
Many here even denounce gold standard, though only Paul comes close to wanting it.
Why do you automatically assume "they put up an article in the middle of the primary", why isn't it possible there is actually an increase of violent incidents and/or warnings of upcoming events they're warning about?
My whole advice is I don't want anybody in trouble for sovereign citizens' beliefs, best to avoid the people, and avoid using their arguments. Play with them if you like, don't say nobody told you. Ignorance is a bad defense.

[onlyrp]

do you understand the meaning of the word 'respect'? from your post, it doesn't seem that you do.

i mean, seriously, your stance is patently ridiculous and shows absolutely no understanding of anarchism.

I never said I understand anarchism, you keep bringing it up.

Why don't you tell me what you mean by "not respecting the law" or maybe I should ask "do you abide by the law by choice, or do you disobey the law by choice"?

[affa]

i have my post count having to respond to nonsense like you.


Don't worry, i'm putting your silly ass on ignore. For the love of everything worthwhile, read a book or two.

[asurfaholic]

Such a major event, a sad day for liberty, and people bicker over the proper definition of anarchism...

This is terrifying. Im fitting into these boxes the fbi and homeland insecurity are creating. Just for respecting and desiring the country that was founded on limited government republican. Rule of law, common law. Don't kill me, steal from me, and now im a criminal suspect for that? No no no, im a good guy... right?

[XTreat]

I never said you're an anarchist, you brought that up yourself. You just said you have no respect for the law, and I was asking if you're all talk.

Apparently you are. Ron Paul never claimed to disrespect the law, he just wants to change it. Nice try putting words in the good man's mouth.

Find me one quote where Ron Paul says he disrespects the law and only abides the law by coincidence (which is what you claim yourself to be).

So, you can show me where you disrespect the law and what you've done, or else just admit you abide by the law (don't expect me to believe you abide by coincidence).

In an interview with economic analyst and commentator Neil Cavuto on Fox News Channel, June 26, 2007, in speaking of income tax resistance, Paul said that he supports the right of those who engage in nonviolent resistance when they believe a law is unjust, bringing up the names of Martin Luther King, Jr., Lysander Spooner, and Mahatma Gandhi as examples of practitioners of peaceful civil disobedience; but he cautioned that those who do should be aware that the consequences could be imprisonment. He said that current income tax laws assume that people are guilty and they must then prove they are innocent, and he believes this aspect of tax law is unfair. However, he said that he prefers to work for improved tax laws by getting elected to Congress and trying to change the laws themselves rather than simply not paying the tax

[XTreat]

All peaceful, voluntary economic and social associations are permitted; consent is the basis of the social and economic order.
—Ron Paul, #2 of the Ten Principles of a Free Society in the appendix of Liberty Defined

[noneedtoaggress]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eifr-J69HI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xHr4vAEROc

[noneedtoaggress]

In an interview with economic analyst and commentator Neil Cavuto on Fox News Channel, June 26, 2007, in speaking of income tax resistance, Paul said that he supports the right of those who engage in nonviolent resistance when they believe a law is unjust, bringing up the names of Martin Luther King, Jr., Lysander Spooner, and Mahatma Gandhi as examples of practitioners of peaceful civil disobedience; but he cautioned that those who do should be aware that the consequences could be imprisonment. He said that current income tax laws assume that people are guilty and they must then prove they are innocent, and he believes this aspect of tax law is unfair. However, he said that he prefers to work for improved tax laws by getting elected to Congress and trying to change the laws themselves rather than simply not paying the tax

Here's the video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK--bcbMsbQ

[noneedtoaggress]

http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html


When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them.

The nature of law is to maintain justice. This is so much the case that, in the minds of the people, law and justice are one and the same thing. There is in all of us a strong disposition to believe that anything lawful is also legitimate. This belief is so widespread that many persons have erroneously held that things are "just" because law makes them so. Thus, in order to make plunder appear just and sacred to many consciences, it is only necessary for the law to decree and sanction it. Slavery, restrictions, and monopoly find defenders not only among those who profit from them but also among those who suffer from them.

http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html


Paley, a common authority with many on moral questions, in his chapter on the "Duty of Submission to Civil Government," resolves all civil obligation into expediency; and he proceeds to say that "so long as the interest of the whole society requires it, that is, so long as the established government cannot be resisted or changed without public inconveniency, it is the will of God that the established government be obeyed, and no longer" — "This principle being admitted, the justice of every particular case of resistance is reduced to a computation of the quantity of the danger and grievance on the one side, and of the probability and expense of redressing it on the other."(12) Of this, he says, every man shall judge for himself. But Paley appears never to have contemplated those cases to which the rule of expediency does not apply, in which a people, as well as an individual, must do justice, cost what it may.

[lilymc]

how the hell do you have over 1000 posts in less than a month of being here?

His posting style is very familiar. He reminds me of a guy who used to post on a different political forum, who totally came across as someone "posting from the White House basement" so to speak. (A paid troll). I'm not saying he is, just saying he reminds me of that guy. :)

[pcosmar]

What a Bizzaro World,,,

Just how is Pro-Constitution defined as Anti-Government?

Reality Sucks.

:(

[MikeStanart]

any criminal can say that. But I don't see you come to their defense each time you hear it.

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9720818.jpg

[otherone]

What strikes me as particularly sad is the demonizing of the concept of 'individual sovereignty'. Our country was formed with the premise that each of us is sovereign, and that government is a necessary inconvenience agreed upon to protect that sovereignty. This is the very heart of Liberty.

[xFiFtyOnE]

This is one of the signs you might be a "Sovereign Citizen", either being religious or well educated....haha

■References to the Bible, The Constitution of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court decisions, or treaties with foreign governments

[Czolgosz]

Dude is weird.

[NidStyles]

So people that just want to be left alone = dangerous to the State, and even some of you.

[bolil]

Hmmm... NDAA... This... Drones... Combat troops coming home from Iraq... Hmmmm..... its a puzzle that assembles itself.

[Lothario]

The Revolution is gonna need to get under way pretty soon before it's too late...

[jkr]

You have no clue what you're talking about. Zero. None. Zip. Seriously, that's one of the most absurd and left field interpretations of anarchism I've ever read. I suppose Ron Paul needs to snort heroin to prove he doesn't believe we need to legislate drugs, too.
^THIS

[jkr]

His posting style is very familiar. He reminds me of a guy who used to post on a different political forum, who totally came across as someone "posting from the White House basement" so to speak. (A paid troll). I'm not saying he is, just saying he reminds me of that guy. :)

http://www.elfquest.com/pubs/bios/Trolls/images/Picknose.gif

[erowe1]

Bring it on.

That's all I have to say.

Liberty cannot and will not be stopped.

Human history is full of liberty being stopped.

[Shane Harris]

Do RPF members get official anti-government extremist membership cards?

if so where can I get mine :D

[erowe1]

I never said you're an anarchist, you brought that up yourself. You just said you have no respect for the law, and I was asking if you're all talk.

Apparently you are. Ron Paul never claimed to disrespect the law, he just wants to change it. Nice try putting words in the good man's mouth.

Find me one quote where Ron Paul says he disrespects the law and only abides the law by coincidence (which is what you claim yourself to be).

So, you can show me where you disrespect the law and what you've done, or else just admit you abide by the law (don't expect me to believe you abide by coincidence).

You're missing the main reason to abide by the law. It's not out of respect for it, as though it were legitimate, it's out of fear of the consequences. I respect the law the same way I would respect an armed robber. I do what they say to avoid the consequences of crossing them.

This is the case with most people.

I don't know anything about the sovereign citizens movement. But I know that the law that human beings in Congress made up is no more legitimate than a law made up by a criminal gang and imposed on the residents of their turf. The only legitimate law is natural law. I can't believe that Ron Paul could possibly disagree with me there.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Since 2000, lone-offender sovereign-citizen extremists have killed six law enforcement officers.


Wow, I had no idea the problem was that HUGE. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if police have killed more police in 12 years.





Bull. The average person reading this has no idea what a 'sovereign citizen' is. They DO, however, hear being 'anti-tax', 'anti-regulation', and 'for a gold standard' being equated with 'dangerous extremism'.

The propaganda is clear and thick.


Yeah, that.





You are correct, the average person doesn't have an idea. And we here should know a bit better.

And no, sovereign citizens are not simply anti-tax, anti-regulation and pro-gold standard, they are anti-law and anti-government (THAT is dangerous extremism).
Wanting to change laws for the better is not dangerous, advocating disobedience before that is.


If people are not harming you, their relationship with the law is really none of your business.





An unjust law is no law at all.


Yep.




fair enough.

If they file papers that are false liens, its called "paper terrorism", not saying thats what your friend did, but that's one other characteristic of the "fringe dangerous group of people I am referring to, and not including rational people like you".

Calling it "paper terrorism" is not the right way to go. That sounds more like fraud, where someone deserves legal representation and a trial. (and a conviction if guilty)

[onlyrp]

Wow, I had no idea the problem was that HUGE. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if police have killed more police in 12 years.

Yeah, that.


If people are not harming you, their relationship with the law is really none of your business.



Yep.

Calling it "paper terrorism" is not the right way to go. That sounds more like fraud, where someone deserves legal representation and a trial. (and a conviction if guilty)

Paper terrorism is the term law enforcement and courts use to describe the specific behavior, I put them in quotes to preserve it's usage. You are correct, its none of my business when somebody violates law and does not harm me, I just am bossy and nosy enough to wish none of it happens to otherwise smart and nice people who I consider friends and productive human beings. If they choose to get arrested or fined, it's their decision.

[onlyrp]

In an interview with economic analyst and commentator Neil Cavuto on Fox News Channel, June 26, 2007, in speaking of income tax resistance, Paul said that he supports the right of those who engage in nonviolent resistance when they believe a law is unjust, bringing up the names of Martin Luther King, Jr., Lysander Spooner, and Mahatma Gandhi as examples of practitioners of peaceful civil disobedience; but he cautioned that those who do should be aware that the consequences could be imprisonment. He said that current income tax laws assume that people are guilty and they must then prove they are innocent, and he believes this aspect of tax law is unfair. However, he said that he prefers to work for improved tax laws by getting elected to Congress and trying to change the laws themselves rather than simply not paying the tax

supports the right is not supporting the action. Yes, like I said, he prefers to change laws, not disobey them.

[onlyrp]

What a Bizzaro World,,,

Just how is Pro-Constitution defined as Anti-Government?

Reality Sucks.

:(

it isn't, and you shouldn't think it is.

[onlyrp]

What strikes me as particularly sad is the demonizing of the concept of 'individual sovereignty'. Our country was formed with the premise that each of us is sovereign, and that government is a necessary inconvenience agreed upon to protect that sovereignty. This is the very heart of Liberty.

No, our country was founded on the premise that only male landowners get to vote and speak, while slaves, Indians do not have legal protection. If it were otherwise, we would not have the amendments 13 & later. Our country was founded on the principle that only moral people who are Christian should have rights (to say otherwise would invalid us as a Christian nation). The very heart of the founder's liberty was that people should not be allowed to vote for their President.

[HOLLYWOOD]

This was big last year... I think the DHS Nazis what to stir the pot again so they can take a snapshot of the "troublemakers" so they may be targeted first.

History bit on this forum: http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3766&sid=02aa9496c36a9e151ce0033c8dd81bca

CBS's 60 MINUTES coverage: http://www.kzfr.org/blog/sovereign-citizenoxymoron-usa-corporation-ministry-fear-and-disinformation-fictional-label-sui-

60 MINUTES VIDEO: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7366128n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

http://bobhurt.blogspot.com/2011/05/sovereign-citizen-oxymoron.html


The term "sovereign citizen" implies that the citizen constitutes the source of the government's sovereignty, for the government obtains only that sovereignty which the citizenry yields to it. Non-citizens have no authority to imbue the government with such sovereignty. The citizenry (free white adult men of property – in other words, the "people") inscribed the rules for such yielding in the federal and state constitutions. Aside from those, the citizenry retained all other rights and powers to themselves to exercise as they see fit.

We should consider ourselves fools and eventual slaves for yielding more than those inscribed powers without long and serious deliberation. And we should return to negotiations every hundred years to further restrict the yielding so as to curb unauthorized liberties, such as waging no-win wars without a declaration of war by Congress, and such as outlawing violent rebellion, or letting private bankers mangle money and lending, or treating everything under the sun as interstate commerce.

Thus, "sovereign citizen" consists of a principle of voluntary yielding of sovereignty in conjunction with the implicit threat of withdrawing it for abuse. It therefore does NOT constitute an oxymoron, but rather a term of art.

Unfortunately, pinkos and leftists like the ADL, SPLC, and CBS want to vilify every effort of the citizenry to limit the abuse of yielded sovereignty, halt the taking of sovereignty not yielded, and excise from government, and possibly from the planet, the ultra vires oligarchs who abuse and take without authority.

We should not dispute as to whether the term is an oxymoron. We should instead instruct people who want to function as conscientious sovereign citizens how to do it without miring themselves in patriot mythology that makes the ignorant public view all of us as fools, dunces, bozos, morons, and idiots.

We should insist that each and every sovereign citizen learn the ideals of good government, state and federal constitutions, rules of evidence, rules of civil and criminal procedure, code of judicial conduct, ideal functioning of courts, basic structure of laws of the land, and how to research case law and prosecute a lawsuit.

We should demand that patriots operate honestly, morally, ethically, and loyally in private and public matters, become litigious against crooks in government and big business, form and train militias in the art of rural and urban warfare and guerilla tactics, teach families to conserve resources, save, and stockpile an use precious metals as money, stand up for their rights, become self-reliant, become good and charitable neighbors, study and value a good education, and worship God and demonstrate his wise and loving nature to others.

When we see patriots or sovereign citizens blowing a head gasket, we should corral them and talk sense into them or get away from them and disavow them. We should not consort with senseless thugs, crooks, and murders. When we see people searching for truth, we need to direct them away from strawman and travel and other goofy theories, and into the blackletter law and rules of procedure and evidence.

[noneedtoaggress]

supports the right is not supporting the action. Yes, like I said, he prefers to change laws, not disobey them.


Here's the video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK--bcbMsbQ

4:30

Neil Cavuto: But is the solution, Congressman, to say "I honorably object to paying my taxes, so I wont."
Is that the solution? Do you endorse that solution?

Ron Paul: Yes I do. And the Martin Luther King tradition, and the Lysander Spooner tradition, and the
tradition of Gandhi... because they practiced peaceful resistance... in order to bring about
changes, and they have brought about miraculous changes in our society over the many, many
years. So there's nothing wrong with that, that's in the American Spirit.

[Sarge]

Does Michelle spending 5O,000 on underwear fall into the extreme theme? This is all becoming a joke. A new threat everyday. Like cookies and milk at nap time in kindergarten.

[Dingo]

Take a look here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-usa-fbi-extremists-idUSTRE81600V20120207

[UK4Paul]

Sheesh...

[brentmpugh]

Sheesh...

Think about this very carefully. They passed the NDAA act, which basically means any type of unrest or opposition has huge implications. This is huge, seems ilke the cards are falling quickly into place for martial law and major issues globally.

Plz bump this and spread the word!

[asurfaholic]

Or you could go to gen politics, where this type of stuff normally goes, and bump the thread that was already created about this....

[Vessol]

4:30

Neil Cavuto: But is the solution, Congressman, to say "I honorably object to paying my taxes, so I wont."
Is that the solution? Do you endorse that solution?

Ron Paul: Yes I do. And the Martin Luther King tradition, and the Lysander Spooner tradition, and the
tradition of Gandhi... because they practiced peaceful resistance... in order to bring about
changes, and they have brought about miraculous changes in our society over the many, many
years. So there's nothing wrong with that, that's in the American Spirit.

Woo, giving the respect to the Spooner, man!

I love how Neil Cavuto is implying that by not paying taxes is somehow violent. Just the way he talks, he looks like a slimeball.

[Seraphim]

The Government has become the violent extremist entity. They can fuck themselves, quite frankly.

[cheapseats]

They are setting the narrative for a possible false flag so they can blame it on . . .


. . . whoever/whatever best advances their agenda.

Feds raiding medical marijuana dispensaries is states wherein MEDICAL MARIJUANA IS LEGAL is another hot spot.

Iran, obviously.

North Korea, if need be.

Race riots.

Whatever WORKS.

[cheapseats]

Sovereign Citizens movement IS dangerous, those people have no respect for the law.

That's a two-way street, or DICTATORSHIP.

[cheapseats]

Unless you actually identify with the sovereign citizens movement and their arguments, no, they are not referring to YOU.

You are not an enemy or terrorist just because you support Ron Paul or own a gun, and not because you might believe there's an NWO.

They're talking about people who literally don't recognize the federal government, play word games with police, don't follow license plate laws, sign papers in red crayon, think that saying "I understand" makes them "stand under" and somehow that's the first step to giving the court authority over them.

VERY literally.

Did you neglect to use quotation marks, or how DO you have such a precise list?





These people are not your average "I hate paying taxes, let's repeal tax laws and abolish IRS and end the Fed", they actually believe they are immune to taxation based on how their name is spelled or how their birth certificate looks (google "redemption movement"), they further believe that gold borders on a flag makes all courts unconstitutional (and wonder why their nonsense in court is called contempt).

Loving freedom and wanting to work for change is GOOD, but disrespect for law and your fellow citizens like these people is NOT COOL.

Two-way street, or DICTATORSHIP.

[cheapseats]

Really? What have you done to reflect your lack of respect? Don't tell me you're all talk.

If someone doesn't tell you what they've "done", they're BULLSHITTERS - do I have that right?

[cheapseats]

Wanting to change laws for the better is not dangerous, advocating disobedience before that is.


In other words . . . STAY THE COURSE, WORKING WITHIN A CORRUPTED SYSTEM?

If refusal to redress grievances would never produce Civil Disobedience, WHAT, cut abruptly to VIOLENT REBELLION?

Or accept Authoritarian Rule?

[cheapseats]

Frank, you know what's funny?

...decent, freedom loving, law abiding conservatives, patriots, Constitutionalists, respect local police and work with them.




So whether sovereign citizens are sincerely deluded or false flag government ops, ALWAYS AVOID THEM.
RUN whenever you hear somebody say they the police have no authority to check for his license, or ask him to have license plate.
RUN whenever you hear somebody say they dont have a name, or their all caps name makes them a corporation, or that saying 'I understand' creates a contract to allow authority over them...

Will RUNNING be sufficient, or do you recommend also HIDING?



General rule : don't seek legal advice from a non-lawyer. . . . just reminding everybody not to be stupid

Stupidity PALES compared to the GREED & INJUSTICE that "underpin" a free Society wherein Rank & File cannot protect themselves without engaging high-priced Lawyers.

[onlyrp]

If someone doesn't tell you what they've "done", they're BULLSHITTERS - do I have that right?

unless they use the English language completely differently than I do, then yes, they're either liars are hypocrites.

[Danke]

In other words . . . STAY THE COURSE, WORKING WITHIN A CORRUPTED SYSTEM?

If refusal to redress grievances would never produce Civil Disobedience, WHAT, cut abruptly to VIOLENT REBELLION?

Or accept Authoritarian Rule?

And RP supports civil disobedience, OMG!

[onlyrp]

Will RUNNING be sufficient, or do you recommend also HIDING?




Stupidity PALES compared to the GREED & INJUSTICE that "underpin" a free Society wherein Rank & File cannot protect themselves without engaging high-priced Lawyers.

probably no need to hide, just run far enough that you won't get arrested with them, or be accused of collusion, conspiracy, accessory. but you never know, just be careful.

[cheapseats]

9/11 conspiracy theorists and sovereign citizens movement both do GREAT harm to hard working patriots.

Not NEARLY as much harm as Crooked Suits & Capricious Justice do.




We should act to CHANGE laws, not disobey them, and we should encourage open government, not accuse them first.

Accuse them FIRST? Are you suggesting that the People lack EVIDENCE of Bad Faith and Dereliction of Duty?

And when YEARS of effort to change laws and enjoin transparency in government are failed, and means are exhausted, do you recommend the aforementioned abrupt cut to VIOLENT REBELLION, or do you recommend that We The People hire ourselves some KICK ASS LAWYERS?

[onlyrp]

This is one of the signs you might be a "Sovereign Citizen", either being religious or well educated....haha

■References to the Bible, The Constitution of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court decisions, or treaties with foreign governments

I already posted, quoting the Bible or constitution is a poor indicator, the rest on the FBI page pretty accurate and pretty exclusive to sovereign citizens, I have no heard those words come from anybody else, literally , but please correct me if you heard the rest of the indicators.

[cheapseats]

...The below are good points that indicate sovereign citizens movement arguments that I honestly have seen and heard nowhere else (please let me know if you have)

Personal names spelled in all capital letters or interspersed with colons (e.g., JOHN SMITH or Smith: John)
Signatures followed by the words “under duress,” “Sovereign Living Soul” (SLS), or a copyright symbol (©)
Personal seals, stamps, or thumb prints in red ink
The words “accepted for value”9


Who KNEW?

[cheapseats]

they werent murderers, they were smartasses to policemen, and then to courts, they got in trouble for either obstruction or contempt on top of their original (very minor) traffic violations. they didn't cause anybody to be hurt back then,

What THIN SKIN they have. Taxpayers should pony up extra millions, BILLIONS over years, TRILLIONS over decades, to make sure no one DISRESPECTS Badges & Robes?

If Police and Courts want people to effectively BOW to them, they gotta be ABOVE REPROACH. That's not our story.




but their mentality of being above the law will get somebody hurt if they continue down that path.

Another two-way street, yes? Otherwise, one of two things:

A.) You are suggesting that Officials & VIP's do NOT have an "above the law" mentality
OR
B.) You are suggesting that it is OKAY or CORRECT for Officials & VIP's to BE above the law.




Its not the fact somebody has a gun, but the belief they are immune from authority that makes them dangerous.

Ain't it the fuckin' truth?




...rather than be fooled to get in any unnecessary trouble.

Do you think Agent Provocateurs ever IDENTIFY Weirdos and CULTIVATE them, or do you think any displays of CREATIVITY, ORGANIZATION, SCALE, PROCUREMENT & EXECUTION are what might be called METHOD TO THE MADNESS?

[cheapseats]

..."paper terrorism" . . . that's one other characteristic of the "fringe dangerous group of people I am referring to, and not including rational people like you".

How does that square with engaging LAWYERS?




Sometimes, the easiest way to find out what kind of person they are, is just ask them : do you pay taxes? If not...

If we hear something, say something?




If you ask them why their name is in all caps, or if they are a US citizen, it becomes obvious. If you ask them what they say to police when stopped on the road, that's another easy giveaway, people are only really worthy of concern when they start disrespecting the law and law enforcement officers.

OBVIOUS?!

Who the hell goes around asking people these kinds of questions? Authorities & other Busy Bodies, I know of no other.

[cheapseats]

Yes, I believe that. Or specifically, if you're an anarchist just hoping to achieve anarchism, that's not lacking respect for the law and government today.

Um, yes it Is.

Or is disrespect only disrespect if it takes a form that makes Badges & Robes FEEL insulted &/or afraid?




But if you claim you do, why not act like you do? Otherwise how do you know you're serious about why you do or don't something? Or I can ask further, why do you stand for what you do? Just because it feels right?

Goading.

[cheapseats]

unless they use the English language completely differently than I do, then yes, they're either liars are hypocrites.


Guilty, until proven innocent?

[cheapseats]

No, the article isn't clearly conflating Ron Paul supporters as anything, but you want to read that in yourself, be my guest.

Is there SLY SUGGESTION, do you think - or nothing of the kind? Do you suggest Ron Paul Supporters do not AT ALL grace "intelligence" radar oftener or differently than other Concerned Citizens?




Don't say I didn't warn you, I'll laugh if anybody gets in trouble for playing sovereign citizens games.

Niiiice.




Yes, I am fear mongering

Yes and no. You give a grim prognosis to True Weirdos, but you suggest that plain old Constitutionalists and Liberty Lovers are FINE, so long as they behave.




...my fear mongering is to keep people from getting arrested for stupid things, you don't need to make bad friends to get in trouble, I hope none of you hear ever do.


Those jails were over-full BEFORE Occupy Wall Street, I can well imagine that a steady stream of "arrests for stupid stuff" would over-tax The System.

But two questions:

1.) Are you suggesting that getting "arrested for stupid stuff" constitutes Paper Terrorism? If so, shall there be investigation into whether the Arrestee or the Arresting Officer is the stupider component of the arrest for stupid stuff, or shall it always automatically be the Arrestee's fault?

2.) Surely you will concede that a large and important principle sometimes manifests amid "stupid stuff"? Is an arrest on "stupid stuff" transmuted when traceable to a Big Principle, or NIET?

[cheapseats]

So, you can show me where you disrespect the law and what you've done, or else just admit you abide by the law (don't expect me to believe you abide by coincidence).

TWICE?

[cheapseats]

I never said I understand anarchism, you keep bringing it up.

Why don't you tell me what you mean by "not respecting the law" or maybe I should ask "do you abide by the law by choice, or do you disobey the law by choice"?

WELL, affa?! Inquiring Minds await a detailed list, if there has been any willful disobedience OR disrespectful obedience on your part.

Feel free to tell on others concurrently. It saves time AND facilitates dot connection. THAT, my friend, is how we whittle down costs.

[cheapseats]

Paper terrorism is the term law enforcement and courts use to describe the specific behavior, I put them in quotes to preserve it's usage. You are correct, its none of my business when somebody violates law and does not harm me, I just am bossy and nosy enough to wish none of it happens to otherwise smart and nice people who I consider friends and productive human beings. If they choose to get arrested or fined, it's their decision.


Wishing nothing icky happens to smart, nice people falls under the GOODWILL umbrella. (What say ye about nice, SIMPLE people - spare them, or fuck 'em?) "Bossy & Nosy" is covered by a quite different umbrella.

[cheapseats]

supports the right is not supporting the action. Yes, like I said, he prefers to change laws, not disobey them.


Is that whatcha call a MEME?

[Lothario]

in my humble opinion, it would probably be best to just discontinue replying and simply ignore the silliness coming from "onlyrp"

[cheapseats]

in my humble opinion, it would probably be best to just discontinue replying and simply ignore the silliness coming from "onlyrp"


There's a lotta prime real estate between Silliness and Sabotage. And as to whether Silliness CAN be Sabotage, I refer people to the subset of Class Clowns who are NOT ejected from the classroom for lack of INTELLIGENT & RELEVANT WIT. Everyone has seen Authority Figures stifle laughter. THEY get jettisoned just like unfunny Wannabes because THEY DISRUPT THE CLASS.

I am not saying this to you specifically, but it would be folly of a most CHILDLIKE kind to think one's OWN political camp is immune to the infiltration & espionage & whatnot that plagues POLITICS.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

play word games with police


Oh, I think I just now got that. Asking if you are being detained... is that playing word games with the police?

So, we have 6 dead officers in 12 years. How many dead innocent citizens in that same time period? And to even mention "word games" and police is ridiculous. For fuck's sake, almost everything they say is a lie.

[cheapseats]

Oh, I think I just now got that. Asking if you are being detained... is that playing word games with the police?

So, we have 6 dead officers in 12 years. How many dead innocent citizens in that same time period? And to even mention "word games" and police is ridiculous. For fuck's sake, almost everything they say is a lie.


American Officials made a bigger deal of one bullet to one Official head, than they have made of ALL incidents of Police Brutality and Death by Cop PLUS total War Dead from both Iraq and Afghanistan, both "sides".