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realtonygoodwin
02-05-2012, 06:31 PM
http://www.freeexistence.org/freedom.shtml

Handy little index where you can rank the issues that matter most to you. My preferences list the following top 5 countries:

1. Hong Kong
2. Switzerland
3. United States
4. Chile
5. Singapore

Pauls' Revere
02-05-2012, 08:48 PM
Very Interesting. For fun I ran the index for each extremes (crucial) and (dont care).

Rank Nation (crucial)
1 Switzerland
2 Hong Kong
3 Chile
4 Canada
5 Australia

Rank Nation (dont care)
1 Afghanistan
2 Albania
3 Algeria
4 Andorra
5 Angola

realtonygoodwin
02-06-2012, 04:47 AM
I am pretty sure don't care across the board merely lists the countries in alphabetical order.

AceNZ
02-06-2012, 05:15 AM
Interesting site; thanks for the link.

New Zealand comes out on top for the things that are most important to me (property, speech, corruption, business) -- which is good, since that's where I moved.

Their concept of "limited government" doesn't match mine, though -- they have Burma, Turkmenistan and Cambodia at the top of that list. That's more like no government, not limited.

CaptUSA
02-06-2012, 06:39 AM
Funny, if all you cared about were taxes, these would be your ideal countries:

Rank Nation Overall Taxes
1 Bahrain 100 100
2 Kuwait 100 100
3 Qatar 100 100
4 United Arab Emir. 100 100
5 Saudi Arabia 99 99

I wonder if many so-called "conservatives" know this. Their two biggest issues seem to be getting rid of taxes and hating the countries that don't have any taxes.

NidStyles
02-06-2012, 07:56 AM
Rank Nation
1 Hong Kong
2 Switzerland
3 United States
4 Chile
5 Canada

I better start practicing my Cantonese. Although Firearm ownership is rather hard to do there. Switzerland is a bit easier, but their economy rotates around other economies supplying it with fresh money. I have a friend in Chile at least. LOL! Things just keep getting bleaker and bleaker. :rolleyes:

Pharazon
02-06-2012, 10:30 AM
Funny, if all you cared about were taxes, these would be your ideal countries:

Rank Nation Overall Taxes
1 Bahrain 100 100
2 Kuwait 100 100
3 Qatar 100 100
4 United Arab Emir. 100 100
5 Saudi Arabia 99 99

I wonder if many so-called "conservatives" know this. Their two biggest issues seem to be getting rid of taxes and hating the countries that don't have any taxes.

Only if you are muslim, if not you are classed as a dhimmi and get extra taxes and have few rights.

GrahamUK
02-06-2012, 10:53 AM
I might be wrong here but, don't muslim people lend money to each at 0% interest?

realtonygoodwin
02-06-2012, 11:03 AM
Rank Nation
1 Hong Kong
2 Switzerland
3 United States
4 Chile
5 Canada

I better start practicing my Cantonese. Although Firearm ownership is rather hard to do there. Switzerland is a bit easier, but their economy rotates around other economies supplying it with fresh money. I have a friend in Chile at least. LOL! Things just keep getting bleaker and bleaker. :rolleyes:

Check out Estonia as well.

Zippyjuan
02-06-2012, 02:23 PM
I might be wrong here but, don't muslim people lend money to each at 0% interest?
Sharia Law doesn't exactly get rid of interest- it is just hidden or called something else. Want a loan for your business? In exchange for the loan, you sign over to them a share of your business including the profits. That money could be calculated as interest. Want to by a car? They will buy it for you- keep it in their name- and when you pay back the money -plus a service fee which again could be calculated as an interest payment- you get the title of the car. Don't pay- they take the car back.

Demigod
02-06-2012, 02:25 PM
Switzerland is hardly free in terms of civil rights.

Demigod
02-06-2012, 02:26 PM
Sharia Law doesn't exactly get rid of interest- it is just hidden or called something else. Want a loan for your business? In exchange for the loan, you sign over to them a share of your business including the profits. That money could be calculated as interest. Want to by a car? They will buy it for you- keep it in their name- and when you pay back the money -plus a service fee which again could be calculated as an interest payment- you get the title of the car. Don't pay- they take the car back.

Well yes but you can buy his share of the business in time.So this way the Banker takes a real risk.If the business fails you don't lose your house.

Zippyjuan
02-06-2012, 02:44 PM
Well yes but you can buy his share of the business in time.So this way the Banker takes a real risk.If the business fails you don't lose your house.

Actually you can lose the house if your lender goes bust- they are the ones who hold the title until it is all paid. You are basically leasing it in the meantime. There are three different ways they can structure it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/jun/29/mortgages.islam

There are three models of Home Purchase Plans (HPPs): Ijara, which means 'lease' in Arabic; Musharaka, which means 'partnership'; and Murabaha, meaning 'profit'. Depending on the model, the lender will levy rent or add profit to the amount you pay back instead of charging interest.

An Ijara is a lease-to-own HPP: the bank purchases the property you want then leases it out to you. At the end of the term the bank transfers ownership of the property to you.

Under a Musharaka plan (also known as 'diminishing Musharaka'), you buy the property jointly with your provider and gradually buy the bank out of it. So if you put down 10 per cent of the purchase price, the bank will buy the remaining 90 per cent. You pay the bank monthly rent on the share you don't own as well as buying more shares in the property with each monthly payment, with a view to owning the property outright at the end of the term - hence the 'diminishing' nature of the partnership. The more shares you own, the less rent you pay to the bank, and the cost of a share in the property is based on the property's original cost price, not its market value.

In a Murabaha plan, the bank will buy the property you want then immediately sell it on to you for a profit. You then pay fixed monthly repayments on the higher price, but with no interest to pay back to the bank. So the bank might buy a property that costs £200,000 and sell it on to a customer for £250,000; the customer then pays that sum back over a fixed term.

GrahamUK
02-06-2012, 02:57 PM
Actually you can lose the house if your lender goes bust- they are the ones who hold the title until it is all paid. You are basically leasing it in the meantime. There are three different ways they can structure it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/jun/29/mortgages.islam

There are three models of Home Purchase Plans (HPPs): Ijara, which means 'lease' in Arabic; Musharaka, which means 'partnership'; and Murabaha, meaning 'profit'. Depending on the model, the lender will levy rent or add profit to the amount you pay back instead of charging interest.

An Ijara is a lease-to-own HPP: the bank purchases the property you want then leases it out to you. At the end of the term the bank transfers ownership of the property to you.

Under a Musharaka plan (also known as 'diminishing Musharaka'), you buy the property jointly with your provider and gradually buy the bank out of it. So if you put down 10 per cent of the purchase price, the bank will buy the remaining 90 per cent. You pay the bank monthly rent on the share you don't own as well as buying more shares in the property with each monthly payment, with a view to owning the property outright at the end of the term - hence the 'diminishing' nature of the partnership. The more shares you own, the less rent you pay to the bank, and the cost of a share in the property is based on the property's original cost price, not its market value.

In a Murabaha plan, the bank will buy the property you want then immediately sell it on to you for a profit. You then pay fixed monthly repayments on the higher price, but with no interest to pay back to the bank. So the bank might buy a property that costs £200,000 and sell it on to a customer for £250,000; the customer then pays that sum back over a fixed term.

Different cultures, different customs and each to his own... Seems fine to me on the surface

RickyJ
02-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Hong Kong is not a country. The United States should not be on that list at all.

GrahamUK
02-06-2012, 03:09 PM
Hong Kong is not a country. The United States should not be on that list at all.

Hong-Kong for all intent and purpose is a free state with the closest thing to free market economics in mordern society there is. Also Oman is pretty similar to that affect, next to 0 taxes and tariffs on import and export

Uriah
02-06-2012, 03:20 PM
Sharia Law doesn't exactly get rid of interest- it is just hidden or called something else. Want a loan for your business? In exchange for the loan, you sign over to them a share of your business including the profits. That money could be calculated as interest. Want to by a car? They will buy it for you- keep it in their name- and when you pay back the money -plus a service fee which again could be calculated as an interest payment- you get the title of the car. Don't pay- they take the car back.

Yes, but they charge a flat fee. It won't spiral out of control like interest can.

Zippyjuan
02-07-2012, 04:28 PM
Yes, but they charge a flat fee. It won't spiral out of control like interest can.

Just get a fixed rate one and you are locked in.

MRK
09-13-2013, 05:36 AM
Interesting site; thanks for the link.

New Zealand comes out on top for the things that are most important to me (property, speech, corruption, business) -- which is good, since that's where I moved.

Their concept of "limited government" doesn't match mine, though -- they have Burma, Turkmenistan and Cambodia at the top of that list. That's more like no government, not limited.

So I take it you've been to Burma, Turkmenistan, and Cambodia, in order to say that it's more like no government than limited government? I guarantee you there are hut hutters walking around in costumes taking money from the commoners like in any other state-infested region. But if you have personal experience saying otherwise, please, do elaborate.

cindy25
09-13-2013, 05:40 AM
Singapore free? they are the biggest nanny state on the planet. they have brutal conscription, and even regulate the size of your dog.

cindy25
09-13-2013, 05:42 AM
Hong Kong is not a country. The United States should not be on that list at all.

Hong Kong is a separate entity, with its own legal system, tax system, postal service, and currency.

Rudeman
09-13-2013, 01:50 PM
If I were to live in another country it would be Switzerland so it's nice to see them on the list at #2.

BTW I checked to see what the list would be like if everything was crucial:

Top 10:

1 Chile - 74
2 Switzerland - 74
3 Australia - 73
4 Bahamas - 72
5 Canada - 71
6 New Zealand - 71
7 United States - 71
8 Uruguay - 71
9 Singapore - 70
10 Netherlands - 70


Bottom 10:
1 Korea (North) - 3
2 Eritrea - 27
3 Cuba - 27
4 Libya - 30
5 Congo (Dem. Rep.) - 38
6 Venezuela - 38
7 Uzbekistan - 39
8 Iran - 39
9 Burma (Myanmar) - 39
10 China - 40

BuddyRey
09-13-2013, 01:54 PM
How is Chile? I hear great things about it, and besides, I'm already taking Spanish lessons on duolingo, so it seems the most convenient choice.

alucard13mm
09-13-2013, 02:06 PM
Mainland chinese actually go to hong kong to have anchor babies. Cost of living in hong kong is sky high as youd imagine for any urban metropolis.

osan
09-13-2013, 02:26 PM
Yes, but they charge a flat fee. It won't spiral out of control like interest can.

I don't think that was Zippy's point, which to my eyes was only that the Muslims are full of shit on the subject of interest. They most certainly DO charge interest; they just call it something else - it's like putting a nice shade of lipstick on a pig and calling it a woman.

A Son of Liberty
09-13-2013, 02:37 PM
If I were to live in another country it would be Switzerland so it's nice to see them on the list at #2.

BTW I checked to see what the list would be like if everything was crucial:

Top 10:

1 Chile - 74
2 Switzerland - 74
3 Australia - 73
4 Bahamas - 72
5 Canada - 71
6 New Zealand - 71
7 United States - 71
8 Uruguay - 71
9 Singapore - 70
10 Netherlands - 70


Bottom 10:
1 Korea (North) - 3
2 Eritrea - 27
3 Cuba - 27
4 Libya - 30
5 Congo (Dem. Rep.) - 38
6 Venezuela - 38
7 Uzbekistan - 39
8 Iran - 39
9 Burma (Myanmar) - 39
10 China - 40

I also ran the program for everything crucial. I have heard that the US is exceptional, the greatest country on the planet, and the bestest ever place to live in the history of history. As such, of course, I was rather disappointed to see it ranked 7th.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

osan
09-13-2013, 02:40 PM
If I were to live in another country it would be Switzerland so it's nice to see them on the list at #2.

Meh - it's OK, but it is still filthy old Europe. My cousin and her hubby and kids live in Berne - they can have it, thanks all the same. I have family all over Europe - Finland, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Switzerland, Hungary, Romania, UK - couldn't pay me enough to live in any of those places. As bad as the USA is, as far as I am concerned these are worse, and that is really saying a lot.

If you want to go to CH, you'd damned better have a shit ton of money because it is stoopid-expensive there. My wife used to go there all the time for work and a small sandwish and some tea for lunch will set you back $30, and it just gets worse from there - try buying a house. My cousin and her husband are both big-shit MDs in Berne and living the good life but it costs them through the nose.


BTW I checked to see what the list would be like if everything was crucial:


Bottom 10:
9 Burma (Myanmar) - 39

If you set "limited government" as the only crucial, the rest to "don't care", Myanmar rates #1, which makes the above noted result call the value of this sheet into question. How can you have the most limited government on the planet when you are overall one of the least free places on earth? Something no addy uppy. It suggests that the "limited government" criterion is a relative measure and not made against a presumably rational standard. This implies that Myanmar is the most limited government in a sea of horrifically out of control governments, not a single one of them rising to the standard of "limited" that any of us would regard as reasonable. The authors would like to hear about bugs - perhaps someone here will alert them to this? No, it will not be me.

KEEF
09-13-2013, 02:48 PM
But I thought the USA was the freest? That is why they hate us! :D

Rudeman
09-13-2013, 02:59 PM
Meh - it's OK, but it is still filthy old Europe. My cousin and her hubby and kids live in Berne - they can have it, thanks all the same. I have family all over Europe - Finland, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Switzerland, Hungary, Romania, UK - couldn't pay me enough to live in any of those places. As bad as the USA is, as far as I am concerned these are worse, and that is really saying a lot.

If you want to go to CH, you'd damned better have a shit ton of money because it is stoopid-expensive there. My wife used to go there all the time for work and a small sandwish and some tea for lunch will set you back $30, and it just gets worse from there - try buying a house. My cousin and her husband are both big-shit MDs in Berne and living the good life but it costs them through the nose.


I have no plans of leaving anytime soon unless shit really gets bad (may decide to visit just to check it out). It being Europe isn't a big issue since I already live in California. Cost could be an issue though, does anyone know anything about Chile? Never thought about moving there before but maybe it might be a better option since I already know a decent amount of Spanish.

jllundqu
09-13-2013, 03:58 PM
I would not live in Hong Kong... maybe Singapore.

Chile seems to be the place to be for me. I speak spanish, prefer the western/southern hemisphere, and find Chilean women to be the most beautiful in the world.

Maybe one day I will be an expat down there

Lucille
09-13-2013, 04:18 PM
How is Chile? I hear great things about it, and besides, I'm already taking Spanish lessons on duolingo, so it seems the most convenient choice.

It's the new America (http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/this-is-someone-you-should-know-10421/).

There are two communities being built by libertarians down there:

http://galtsgulchchile.com/

Wendy McElroy and her husband (http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2013/8/6/finding-my-way-home.html) bought a lot there recently.

And Simon Black's http://www.sovereignvalley.com/ , http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/so-why-chile-5342/

...who hosted a conference down there recently featuring:

www.sovereignman.com/expat/could-this-possibly-be-real-11510/

http://www.sovereignman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/offshoretacticsworkshop.jpg

jtstellar
09-13-2013, 05:12 PM
so where else has the right to arm yourself as a natural right besides the us and switzerland?

places that don't have it should fail instantly, disregarding any government sanctioned 'social' freedom they might have

jllundqu
09-13-2013, 05:22 PM
so where else has the right to arm yourself as a natural right besides the us and switzerland?

places that don't have it should fail instantly, disregarding any government sanctioned 'social' freedom they might have

Agreed... anyplace that won't let you defend yourself is a non-starter

Demigod
09-13-2013, 05:23 PM
so where else has the right to arm yourself as a natural right besides the us and switzerland?

places that don't have it should fail instantly, disregarding any government sanctioned 'social' freedom they might have

Switzerland does not have a right to arm yourself but you have to be a conscript and serve the military time ( however it is called in the USA ) after which you are granted a weapon to keep at home for military purposes only.

Many countries in the world don't have the right to arm them self's according to the law but in reality are really heavily armed,the clear example is every Balkan country.Switzerland is socially Nazi central.