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Anti Federalist
02-01-2012, 06:58 AM
No question about why nobody cares, as far as I'm concerned:

The American people, by and large, do not want freedom, do not want liberty and do not want peace.

They have made it very clear, over and over, that they want war, tyranny and death.

We are in a declining empire in the throes of suicide.


Re: Herr Panetta's Diktat

Posted by Butler Shaffer on January 31, 2012 11:37 AM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/104900.html

Glenn Greenwald's article about Leon Panetta's open admission that the President can order the murder of anyone — even Americans — upon the CIA's and the president having declared such a person to be a "terrorist," ends on the most disturbing question: Why do so few people even care? That Republican GOP candidates — except one — and various neocon voices applaud the assertion of such authority is predictable: Those who long for power over others want no limitations placed on their actions.

To suggest outmoded "due process" considerations — such as formal charges and a trial — is to deny that the monopoly on the use of violence (which defines the state) might have limits! Meanwhile, those of us who compare modern America with Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia continue to be labeled "paranoid extremists." It is all the more remarkable that our current president asserts the same kind of "due-process-free" power to kill that once sent percaled Ku Klux Klansmen in search of their enemies!

There is a most powerful book that ought to be read by everyone — particularly those of Tom Brokaw's "greatest generation" who still like to pretend that they fought in WWII to end tyranny. It is Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free, a post-WWII study of the responses of ordinary Germans to the question "What was it like living under Nazi tyranny?"

I have just finished the writing of another book, to be titled The Wizards of Ozymandias. The book is dedicated to "the memory and the spirit of Sophie and Hans Scholl and the White Rose, who reminded us what it means to be civilized." The young people who worked, peacefully, within Nazi Germany to resist Nazism were unceremoniously guillotined by government officials who, not unlike their modern American counterparts, acted to kill their version of "terrorists." It would be pointless for members of this administration, the Republicans who want only to replace Obama with their unrestrained power, or the neocons, to bother reading Mayer's book. For the rest of us, however, it might provide the antidote that answers Greenwald's closing question.

DamianTV
02-01-2012, 07:43 AM
People dont care anymore because every aspect of our society requires that they dont.

There are a lot of aspects of Indoctrination, but it doesnt stop with schools. It has embedded itself as the very root of our culture. A lot of people have a preconceived notion that our Public School System is nothing more than an Indoctrination Centre to create, nay, manufacture Obedient Workers. But the fallacy of that idea gives way when we look at almost every other aspect of our society. Including Charities. Give money to a charity and you dont have to actually do any of the work. That is its own ball of wax and heads the wrong direction for the purpose of this topic. The idea that people dont care is because people are not allowed to care, and are usually punished in some way shape or form if they do.

You cant have Car Insurance Adjustors that actually care that the company is trying to rip off the victim by replacing whatever it was that was damaged with something that is as cheap as they can get away with. If the Adjustor speaks up, they are 'disciplined'. Flip Burgers? Really? Ever see anyone take any pride in a burger they slap together when they bunch up several hundred an hour? Doctors end up treating the sick as if discerning a proper medical diagnoiss can be done in the same fashion as a fast-food chain operates.

No one has incentive. Our last generation is pretty much fully aware that there will probably not be a United States of America by the time they are old enough to retire. The level of confidence in our Government is the lowest it has ever been in history. People that are fortunate enough to have jobs are not keeping up with inflation. They get a "AT&T Raise" (25 cents per hour, even tho pay phones are pretty much history and now cost at least 50 cents) for a year where the price of living has gone up by a buck fifty. The people aware of this have no incentive to save money, only to spend it all immediately before prices go up even higher, that is to say, if they even have any money to spend to begin with.

The lack of incentive isnt just limited to Economics. As a nation, we are bankrupt, in much more than just the financial sense. We are emotionally bankrupt from the hardships brought upon us by War, Economy, and a myriad of personal trials, all of which amplify the intensity of the other. We are intellectually bankrupt. We take the wiggly butt kids who end up having the energy to do their homework and immediately diagnose them with a chemical imbalance and put them on antidepressants, there by taking the few kids who might have a chance of being a real leader and force feeding them pills until their brains turn into a soupy gooey substance that can easily be consumed by aliens with little more than a power drill and a straw. We are medically bankrupt. Just as we overdiagnose ADD in kids, we overdiagnose every possible illness while treating mostly symptoms of a disease, if it is even a disease at all. Doctors (pointing the finger more at Big Pharma and owners of hospitals much more than the Doctors themselves) dont make any money if people dont get sick. We are Legally Bankrupt. The US was officially bankrupt in the 1930's, and started selling off its most prominent assets, the people, by way of Capitis Diminutio Maxima. Our entire Legal System is the polar opposite of Justice with the sole intention of increasing capital for the Private Prison Owners, which to say is nothing short of Human Trafficking. Our government is corrupt beyond belief. Those who say it is not are most likely gaining some sort of personal benefit from the Government. Food Stamps are higher than they've ever been, so there are LOT of people collecting some sort of benefit. And trying to take on the system single handedly rarely stands to benefit anyone but the person standing up to the Injustice of the Legal System. Our nutrition feeds us nothing but chemical garbage. We have an even larger financial bubble in the education system even larger than our housing bubble and the people that graduate come out with a lifetime of student loan debt, a certificate of completing prescribed (like it was a medication) college courses, and are quickly becoming the dumbest country on earth. There is a big difference between being dumb and being uneducated. There is also a big difference between School and Education. We are more connected than other, but more disconnected from each other than ever. We Tweet and Facebook instead of coming over to see your neighbors newborn baby. We allow ourselves to be "connected" so we can be disconnected from our real friends and real families, and can instead be more connected with being monitored for more effective advertising where our lives of consumption follow consuming what we are told to consume when we are told to consume it. We have no time to invest into ourselves, and when time is available, we have very little drive to do anything to better ourselves or our society. We have allowed our leaders to steer the direction of our nation onto a course that heads us exactly in the direction we were warned about by our founding fathers. We have allowed Banks and Corporations to gain control over the issue of our Nation's Currency, from which I believe all of the other problems are directly (not solely) caused by.

We have no incentive because we were told not to, and to be happy with it.

But this is not the end. When people realize that it is only within Freedom that they can truly thrive, the Responsibilities of Freedom will begin to make the Benefits of Freedom become appealing again, as compared to all other alternatives.

HOLLYWOOD
02-01-2012, 08:13 AM
Let me put it in Layman's terms... majority of Americans are too fuckin lazy, too apathetic, too ignorant, and just down right too stupid. Put that on top of the 4 Branches of corrupt government at Federal and State levels. Yes, Corporate Media is the Department of Propaganda/Dis-Information, Censorship, Lies, and Control(4th branch).

Philhelm
02-01-2012, 08:28 AM
People dont care anymore because every aspect of our society requires that they dont.

There are a lot of aspects of Indoctrination, but it doesnt stop with schools. It has embedded itself as the very root of our culture. A lot of people have a preconceived notion that our Public School System is nothing more than an Indoctrination Centre to create, nay, manufacture Obedient Workers. But the fallacy of that idea gives way when we look at almost every other aspect of our society. Including Charities. Give money to a charity and you dont have to actually do any of the work. That is its own ball of wax and heads the wrong direction for the purpose of this topic. The idea that people dont care is because people are not allowed to care, and are usually punished in some way shape or form if they do.

You cant have Car Insurance Adjustors that actually care that the company is trying to rip off the victim by replacing whatever it was that was damaged with something that is as cheap as they can get away with. If the Adjustor speaks up, they are 'disciplined'. Flip Burgers? Really? Ever see anyone take any pride in a burger they slap together when they bunch up several hundred an hour? Doctors end up treating the sick as if discerning a proper medical diagnoiss can be done in the same fashion as a fast-food chain operates.

No one has incentive. Our last generation is pretty much fully aware that there will probably not be a United States of America by the time they are old enough to retire. The level of confidence in our Government is the lowest it has ever been in history. People that are fortunate enough to have jobs are not keeping up with inflation. They get a "AT&T Raise" (25 cents per hour, even tho pay phones are pretty much history and now cost at least 50 cents) for a year where the price of living has gone up by a buck fifty. The people aware of this have no incentive to save money, only to spend it all immediately before prices go up even higher, that is to say, if they even have any money to spend to begin with.

The lack of incentive isnt just limited to Economics. As a nation, we are bankrupt, in much more than just the financial sense. We are emotionally bankrupt from the hardships brought upon us by War, Economy, and a myriad of personal trials, all of which amplify the intensity of the other. We are intellectually bankrupt. We take the wiggly butt kids who end up having the energy to do their homework and immediately diagnose them with a chemical imbalance and put them on antidepressants, there by taking the few kids who might have a chance of being a real leader and force feeding them pills until their brains turn into a soupy gooey substance that can easily be consumed by aliens with little more than a power drill and a straw. We are medically bankrupt. Just as we overdiagnose ADD in kids, we overdiagnose every possible illness while treating mostly symptoms of a disease, if it is even a disease at all. Doctors (pointing the finger more at Big Pharma and owners of hospitals much more than the Doctors themselves) dont make any money if people dont get sick. We are Legally Bankrupt. The US was officially bankrupt in the 1930's, and started selling off its most prominent assets, the people, by way of Capitis Diminutio Maxima. Our entire Legal System is the polar opposite of Justice with the sole intention of increasing capital for the Private Prison Owners, which to say is nothing short of Human Trafficking. Our government is corrupt beyond belief. Those who say it is not are most likely gaining some sort of personal benefit from the Government. Food Stamps are higher than they've ever been, so there are LOT of people collecting some sort of benefit. And trying to take on the system single handedly rarely stands to benefit anyone but the person standing up to the Injustice of the Legal System. Our nutrition feeds us nothing but chemical garbage. We have an even larger financial bubble in the education system even larger than our housing bubble and the people that graduate come out with a lifetime of student loan debt, a certificate of completing prescribed (like it was a medication) college courses, and are quickly becoming the dumbest country on earth. There is a big difference between being dumb and being uneducated. There is also a big difference between School and Education. We are more connected than other, but more disconnected from each other than ever. We Tweet and Facebook instead of coming over to see your neighbors newborn baby. We allow ourselves to be "connected" so we can be disconnected from our real friends and real families, and can instead be more connected with being monitored for more effective advertising where our lives of consumption follow consuming what we are told to consume when we are told to consume it. We have no time to invest into ourselves, and when time is available, we have very little drive to do anything to better ourselves or our society. We have allowed our leaders to steer the direction of our nation onto a course that heads us exactly in the direction we were warned about by our founding fathers. We have allowed Banks and Corporations to gain control over the issue of our Nation's Currency, from which I believe all of the other problems are directly (not solely) caused by.

We have no incentive because we were told not to, and to be happy with it.

But this is not the end. When people realize that it is only within Freedom that they can truly thrive, the Responsibilities of Freedom will begin to make the Benefits of Freedom become appealing again, as compared to all other alternatives.

Legendary post. I think that in a word, I would describe our society as "soulless." Hell, even our method of warfare is empty. At least people used to face their opponents head on; now we just kill people in a factory-like, mass production method.

Pericles
02-01-2012, 10:02 AM
Legendary post. I think that in a word, I would describe our society as "soulless." Hell, even our method of warfare is empty. At least people used to face their opponents head on; now we just kill people in a factory-like, mass production method.

Pity that I could only give one rep for that post.

tfurrh
02-01-2012, 10:22 AM
Its almost Biblical.

Boss
02-01-2012, 10:39 AM
Give money to a charity and you dont have to actually do any of the work.

Damian, I enjoyed your post (for the most part). I think you should look into "postmodernism" as it seems you were unintentionally describing it rather well. However, I want to point out part of your argument that I think needs revision. In particular, this statement you made about charities.

The idea of giving money to charities presupposes that you have money to give. Unless the money was passed on to you and you had to exert zero effort to obtain that money, it is unfair for you to say "you don't have to actually do any of the work." In reality, you already did the work, and your money is the social representation of the value you have accumulated by virtue of your work.

Further, people's time and efforts have different values. Lets say a charity is comprised of young 20-somethings and it receives a donation from a surgeon who is in her 50's. This surgeon's time is worth hundreds of dollars an hour. The young 20-somethings time isn't worth anything close to that (yet). By doing acts of charity, the worth of the young people's time increases because society favors people who help others (thus, looks good on a resume), and more importantly, because of the morality obtained through charitably helping other people.

Wesker1982
02-01-2012, 10:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkV2FMaLOY


But if a voter is not competent to decide issues A, B, C, etc., how in the world could he possibly be qualified to decide whether Mr. X or Mr. Y is better able to handle A, B, or C? In order to make this decision, the voter would have to know a great deal about the issues and know enough about the persons whom he is selecting. In short, he would probably have to know more in a representative than in a direct democracy. Furthermore, the average voter is necessarily less qualified to choose persons to decide issues than he is to vote on the issues themselves. For the issues are at least intelligible to him, and he can understand some of their relevance; but the candidates are people whom he cannot possibly know personally and whom he therefore knows essentially nothing about. Hence, he can vote for them only on the basis of their external “personalities,” glamorous smiles, etc., rather than on their actual competence; as a result, however ill-informed the voter, his choice is almost bound to be less intelligent under a representative republic than in a direct democracy.

Rational Ignorance.

Travlyr
02-01-2012, 10:52 AM
They don't want tyranny. They don't know any better.

War is Peace
Indoctrination is Education
Fake Money is Real
Tyranny is Freedom

heavenlyboy34
02-01-2012, 11:25 AM
I disagree that college education is in a bubble. It's always been this way (a scam). It's just that the other economic woes make it more obvious. Gary North wrote a great piece on this a while back. There are a lot of good arguments against the way 'higher ed" works, but calling it a bubble is not one of them.

(http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north975.html)College: Why It Is Not a Bubble (http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north975.html)

heavenlyboy34
02-01-2012, 11:26 AM
They don't want tyranny. They don't know any better.

War is Peace
Indoctrination is Education
Fake Money is Real
Tyranny is Freedom
Ah, you too have learned to decode Newspeak/Ingsoc. :cool: You too are a threat to TPTB. You left out an important rule, though: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

donnay
02-01-2012, 11:37 AM
People dont care anymore because every aspect of our society requires that they dont.

There are a lot of aspects of Indoctrination, but it doesnt stop with schools. It has embedded itself as the very root of our culture. A lot of people have a preconceived notion that our Public School System is nothing more than an Indoctrination Centre to create, nay, manufacture Obedient Workers. But the fallacy of that idea gives way when we look at almost every other aspect of our society. Including Charities. Give money to a charity and you dont have to actually do any of the work. That is its own ball of wax and heads the wrong direction for the purpose of this topic. The idea that people dont care is because people are not allowed to care, and are usually punished in some way shape or form if they do.

You cant have Car Insurance Adjustors that actually care that the company is trying to rip off the victim by replacing whatever it was that was damaged with something that is as cheap as they can get away with. If the Adjustor speaks up, they are 'disciplined'. Flip Burgers? Really? Ever see anyone take any pride in a burger they slap together when they bunch up several hundred an hour? Doctors end up treating the sick as if discerning a proper medical diagnoiss can be done in the same fashion as a fast-food chain operates.

No one has incentive. Our last generation is pretty much fully aware that there will probably not be a United States of America by the time they are old enough to retire. The level of confidence in our Government is the lowest it has ever been in history. People that are fortunate enough to have jobs are not keeping up with inflation. They get a "AT&T Raise" (25 cents per hour, even tho pay phones are pretty much history and now cost at least 50 cents) for a year where the price of living has gone up by a buck fifty. The people aware of this have no incentive to save money, only to spend it all immediately before prices go up even higher, that is to say, if they even have any money to spend to begin with.

The lack of incentive isnt just limited to Economics. As a nation, we are bankrupt, in much more than just the financial sense. We are emotionally bankrupt from the hardships brought upon us by War, Economy, and a myriad of personal trials, all of which amplify the intensity of the other. We are intellectually bankrupt. We take the wiggly butt kids who end up having the energy to do their homework and immediately diagnose them with a chemical imbalance and put them on antidepressants, there by taking the few kids who might have a chance of being a real leader and force feeding them pills until their brains turn into a soupy gooey substance that can easily be consumed by aliens with little more than a power drill and a straw. We are medically bankrupt. Just as we overdiagnose ADD in kids, we overdiagnose every possible illness while treating mostly symptoms of a disease, if it is even a disease at all. Doctors (pointing the finger more at Big Pharma and owners of hospitals much more than the Doctors themselves) dont make any money if people dont get sick. We are Legally Bankrupt. The US was officially bankrupt in the 1930's, and started selling off its most prominent assets, the people, by way of Capitis Diminutio Maxima. Our entire Legal System is the polar opposite of Justice with the sole intention of increasing capital for the Private Prison Owners, which to say is nothing short of Human Trafficking. Our government is corrupt beyond belief. Those who say it is not are most likely gaining some sort of personal benefit from the Government. Food Stamps are higher than they've ever been, so there are LOT of people collecting some sort of benefit. And trying to take on the system single handedly rarely stands to benefit anyone but the person standing up to the Injustice of the Legal System. Our nutrition feeds us nothing but chemical garbage. We have an even larger financial bubble in the education system even larger than our housing bubble and the people that graduate come out with a lifetime of student loan debt, a certificate of completing prescribed (like it was a medication) college courses, and are quickly becoming the dumbest country on earth. There is a big difference between being dumb and being uneducated. There is also a big difference between School and Education. We are more connected than other, but more disconnected from each other than ever. We Tweet and Facebook instead of coming over to see your neighbors newborn baby. We allow ourselves to be "connected" so we can be disconnected from our real friends and real families, and can instead be more connected with being monitored for more effective advertising where our lives of consumption follow consuming what we are told to consume when we are told to consume it. We have no time to invest into ourselves, and when time is available, we have very little drive to do anything to better ourselves or our society. We have allowed our leaders to steer the direction of our nation onto a course that heads us exactly in the direction we were warned about by our founding fathers. We have allowed Banks and Corporations to gain control over the issue of our Nation's Currency, from which I believe all of the other problems are directly (not solely) caused by.

We have no incentive because we were told not to, and to be happy with it.

But this is not the end. When people realize that it is only within Freedom that they can truly thrive, the Responsibilities of Freedom will begin to make the Benefits of Freedom become appealing again, as compared to all other alternatives.

You hit the proverbial nail on the head here! +rep

helmuth_hubener
02-01-2012, 11:41 AM
AF, DamianTV, there is every reason to be optimistic. Consider this passage from For a New Liberty:



We have traced the rather grisly story of the decline and fall of classical liberalism after its rise and partial triumph in previous centuries. What, then, is the reason for the resurgence, the flowering, of libertarian thought and activity in the last few years, particularly in the United States? How could these formidable forces and coalitions for statism have yielded even that much to a resurrected libertarian movement? Shouldn't the resumed march of statism in the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries be a cause for gloom rather than usher in a reawakening of a seemingly moribund libertarianism? Why didn't libertarianism remain dead and buried?

We have seen why libertarianism would naturally arise first and most fully in the United States, a land steeped in libertarian tradition. But we have not yet examined the question: Why the renaissance of libertarianism at all within the last few years? What contemporary conditions have led to this surprising development?


The resurgence and flowering he was talking about was much much smaller and punier than that which we see around us today. Rothbard trumpets triumphs such as:

"Edward Clark piled up 377,960 votes for governor of California"

and

"the LP presidential ticket gained 174,000 votes in 32 states in 1976"

If he was optimistic and saw a flowering then, then surely we can be optimistic and see a flowering now. Our movement is winning. Onward, ever onward, marching to victory.

KingNothing
02-01-2012, 12:03 PM
Let me put it in Layman's terms... majority of Americans are too fuckin lazy, too apathetic, too ignorant, and just down right too stupid. Put that on top of the 4 Branches of corrupt government at Federal and State levels. Yes, Corporate Media is the Department of Propaganda/Dis-Information, Censorship, Lies, and Control(4th branch).


And all we can do about it is humbly act in the manner that we wish all others would act.
We've got to be more tolerant, we've got to be tireless, we've got to be better educated, we've got to be more pleasant, we've got to be more presentable, than EVERYONE who disagrees with us or who has yet to take the red pill.

It's all we can do.

In the long run we will win. The long run might not be this year. It might not be this decade. It might not be our lifetime. But the message of liberty, built on the foundation of individual virtue and mutual respect will win, because it has to. Our part in this is to live the way we wish others would live and lead by example.

Deborah K
02-01-2012, 12:19 PM
This is a simplistic point of view but I'll write it anyway: If you look at the history of human behavior, you'll note that we behave like herd animals for the most part - it is a natural inclination. It's been a known fact throughout history. Which is why the Bible refers to us as "sheep" and the "Shepard". Those who rise to leadership levels know and understand this, and we are generally at the mercy of their intentions. Bernays understood this better than any modern day manipulator, which is why Goebbels was an ardent student, read all of his books, and even tried to get a meeting with him despite the fact that he was a jew.

Bernays discusses how in WW1, most people were opposed to the war, but by having Germans stereotyped as monsters in various news-reels, or by spreading clever, racist, anti-German ethnic jokes, he and his Committee (the Creel Committee) were able to increase public support for US intervention on the behalf of the British Empire.

Sound familiar?

What sets us (Ron Paul supporters) apart from the masses, is that we are the remnant. I truly believe that. We are the remaining vestiges of an idea, that idea being true liberty. I believe, as Thomas Jefferson did, that it is God given. And I don't think God will abandon us. However I can't say that about the ignorant masses.

heavenlyboy34
02-01-2012, 12:28 PM
This is a simplistic point of view but I'll write it anyway: If you look at the history of human behavior, you'll note that we behave like herd animals for the most part - it is a natural inclination. It's been a known fact throughout history. Which is why the Bible refers to us as "sheep" and the "Shepard". Those who rise to leadership levels know and understand this, and we are generally at the mercy of their intentions. Bernays understood this better than any modern day manipulator, which is why Goebbels was an ardent student, read all of his books, and even tried to get a meeting with him despite the fact that he was a jew.

Bernays discusses how in WW1, most people were opposed to the war, but by having Germans stereotyped as monsters in various news-reels, or by spreading clever, racist, anti-German ethnic jokes, he and his Committee (the Creel Committee) were able to increase public support for US intervention on the behalf of the British Empire.

Sound familiar?

What sets us (Ron Paul supporters) apart from the masses, is that we are the remnant. I truly believe that. We are the remaining vestiges of an idea, that idea being true liberty. I believe, as Thomas Jefferson did, that it is God given. And I don't think God will abandon us. However I can't say that about the ignorant masses.+rep

oyarde
02-01-2012, 12:36 PM
This is depressing .

cajuncocoa
02-01-2012, 12:46 PM
As long as the average American can sit on the sofa at the end of the day with a bag of chips, a soda, and the remote control, it's hard to get them to care about anything important. Just leave American Idol alone!! :rolleyes:

Original_Intent
02-01-2012, 12:48 PM
I had an even more depressing thought.

The biggest difference between the U.S. and foreign countries is that over there, the terrorists are in the minority and not suppported by the majority of the people, and are forced to more or less operate outside of the government. In the U.S. the terrorists largely are running the government, and are supported (knowingly or unknowingly) by the majority of the people.

Luckily, we don't need a majority - just a committed minority setting brushfires.... :)

donnay
02-01-2012, 12:56 PM
This is a simplistic point of view but I'll write it anyway: If you look at the history of human behavior, you'll note that we behave like herd animals for the most part - it is a natural inclination. It's been a known fact throughout history. Which is why the Bible refers to us as "sheep" and the "Shepard". Those who rise to leadership levels know and understand this, and we are generally at the mercy of their intentions. Bernays understood this better than any modern day manipulator, which is why Goebbels was an ardent student, read all of his books, and even tried to get a meeting with him despite the fact that he was a jew.

Bernays discusses how in WW1, most people were opposed to the war, but by having Germans stereotyped as monsters in various news-reels, or by spreading clever, racist, anti-German ethnic jokes, he and his Committee (the Creel Committee) were able to increase public support for US intervention on the behalf of the British Empire.

Sound familiar?

What sets us (Ron Paul supporters) apart from the masses, is that we are the remnant. I truly believe that. We are the remaining vestiges of an idea, that idea being true liberty. I believe, as Thomas Jefferson did, that it is God given. And I don't think God will abandon us. However I can't say that about the ignorant masses.

Well said! +rep

There is definitely a psychological war on our minds. Bernays was the nephew of Sigmund Freud.

How to Brainwash a Nation


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3081752751625862941

Paul Fan
02-01-2012, 01:20 PM
They want tyranny because they are afraid. They are afraid of the terrorists, the criminals, the corporations that want to kill and maim their customers, the private schools teaching 'hate', the 'chaos' of decentralized decisionmaking, and the 'stinginess' of charitable donors who only want to give to people who are worse off than themselves. And until we address those fears, the majority of people will not be interested in liberty.

Deborah K
02-01-2012, 02:09 PM
Well said! +rep

There is definitely a psychological war on our minds. Bernays was the nephew of Sigmund Freud.

How to Brainwash a Nation


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3081752751625862941


This whole 'Century of the Self' documentary is worth the watch. It clarifies a lot about how easy it is to manipulate the masses.

KingNothing
02-01-2012, 02:12 PM
This is a simplistic point of view but I'll write it anyway: If you look at the history of human behavior, you'll note that we behave like herd animals for the most part - it is a natural inclination. It's been a known fact throughout history. Which is why the Bible refers to us as "sheep" and the "Shepard". Those who rise to leadership levels know and understand this, and we are generally at the mercy of their intentions. Bernays understood this better than any modern day manipulator, which is why Goebbels was an ardent student, read all of his books, and even tried to get a meeting with him despite the fact that he was a jew.

Bernays discusses how in WW1, most people were opposed to the war, but by having Germans stereotyped as monsters in various news-reels, or by spreading clever, racist, anti-German ethnic jokes, he and his Committee (the Creel Committee) were able to increase public support for US intervention on the behalf of the British Empire.

Sound familiar?

What sets us (Ron Paul supporters) apart from the masses, is that we are the remnant. I truly believe that. We are the remaining vestiges of an idea, that idea being true liberty. I believe, as Thomas Jefferson did, that it is God given. And I don't think God will abandon us. However I can't say that about the ignorant masses.

Sounds like you just might be an Adam Curtis fan. Ever see Century of the Self?

KingNothing
02-01-2012, 02:12 PM
This whole 'Century of the Self' documentary is worth the watch. It clarifies a lot about how easy it is to manipulate the masses.

Ha!

I knew it!

Deborah K
02-01-2012, 02:16 PM
Ha!

I knew it!

Yep! That documentary is what turned me on to Bernays. I then bought his book 'Propaganda'.

RCA
02-01-2012, 02:22 PM
The only thing that gives me comfort when thinking about this issue is that at the upper ranks of our society, there is fierce competition among our overlords. The longer there's a stalemate between them, then the better off we are. This sounds silly but any amount of "not bad" news helps.

DamianTV
02-01-2012, 03:18 PM
Damian, I enjoyed your post (for the most part). I think you should look into "postmodernism" as it seems you were unintentionally describing it rather well. However, I want to point out part of your argument that I think needs revision. In particular, this statement you made about charities.

The idea of giving money to charities presupposes that you have money to give. Unless the money was passed on to you and you had to exert zero effort to obtain that money, it is unfair for you to say "you don't have to actually do any of the work." In reality, you already did the work, and your money is the social representation of the value you have accumulated by virtue of your work.

Further, people's time and efforts have different values. Lets say a charity is comprised of young 20-somethings and it receives a donation from a surgeon who is in her 50's. This surgeon's time is worth hundreds of dollars an hour. The young 20-somethings time isn't worth anything close to that (yet). By doing acts of charity, the worth of the young people's time increases because society favors people who help others (thus, looks good on a resume), and more importantly, because of the morality obtained through charitably helping other people.

Postmodernism is where I got it from. I do agree with you about charities, but was just trying to refer to the general attidude of people. I dont have any stats to back up my statements, but I believe there is a big difference in charities between people actually becoming dedicated volunteers (of which, there arent many) for any cause they believe in, and going out and putting a sticker on your car that says "we support <insert group / activity>". For example, a "Breast Cancer Awareness Ribbon" or a "We support our Troops" bumper sticker. I think this attitude is a result of a shift in actually supporting a group / activity / organization as real charity to a consumerist charity. We bought this bumper sticker because "We support Bumper Sticker Makers" who operate a Non Profit in a means that is Profitable for them. On a psychological level, it seems to releive people of the moral resonsibility of allowing them to feel like they have given because they have nothing else to give, which goes back to the postmodernism. I do have a great deal of respect for those who do volunteer their time, and cant disagree with yoru statement at all. I think debating charity comes down to debating for the sake of debating and arguing semantics.

What is sad is that post (for whcih I got 9 +Reps for! Wow! Thank you!) is we could pretty much take any word and use it to describe how we are bankrupt in that situation. Say something abstract. Ice Cream. As a nation, we are bankrupt because we no longer produce any real ice cream. We probably dont even make said brand or flavor in this country and if we do, it is more chemical soup than actual real ice cream. Anyone that tries has an obstacle course of legal problems to overcome before even trying to attempt to offer a free market alternative. After pointing that out, point out that there is no benefit for us to produce said word in this country.

It isnt that is my philosophy. Freedom and Liberty are my philosophies. The postmodernism generally describes our current state, which also has another desired effect, that of complacency and apathy to change the status quo, which would be exactly what those who have the real power in the world want of people.

Liberty and Freedom are the only real ways to combat the Postmodernism Effects in our Society.

osan
02-01-2012, 05:14 PM
An aspect of this that is rarely if ever discussed is that of the psychology of identity and vicarious experience.

I have observed that the more powerless people feel, the more they want to feel powerful. This appears to be very rational and understandable. What is not rational is the way people proceed pursuant to those drives, which run broadly to the irrational and indeed the self- and mutually-destructive.

Given a strong desire to feel in possession of power that in fact remains elusive, people will irrationally do what feels like the next closest thing, which is to attach themselves to something that is powerful. What easier object than one's "nation" is there with which one might identify? Not too many and few, if any, to equal the power of the state, at least to casual and common eyes. We see this all the time in lesser examples including sports teams where people get very emotionally invested in who won what.

Thus we have someone feeling powerless, wanting to feel otherwise but is unable to change his circumstance in the desired way. He psychologically attaches himself like a coat-tail hanger to something he sees as powerful, and therefore worthy of his praise - the "nation" or "the state" or the "government" - all the same nonsense. Having so attached himself and given the well understood proclivities of the mean citizen with respect to the pursuit of personal power, our sad sack is in the perfect condition to cheer on his idol-government as they acquire greater power by whatever means they can manage because as it becomes more powerful, by extension so does he. It is really a very simple and readily expectable development, given human nature. Equally predictable is the destruction of liberty that results because people are not only willing to be seduced by those telling them all the things they want to hear, but demand it and will become violent against anyone threatening the comfort that it promises. All astute power mongers recognize this and capitalize on it, often with disastrous results.

Sadly, this appears to describe a very large majority of humanity.

NidStyles
02-01-2012, 05:34 PM
If you want answers, just look up Puritan culture from the early Colonial days. You'll find the answer there in the midst's of their religious dogma and how they viewed their relationship with G-d. America hasn't changed much from that Era culturally.

KingNothing
02-02-2012, 06:42 AM
If you want answers, just look up Puritan culture from the early Colonial days. You'll find the answer there in the midst's of their religious dogma and how they viewed their relationship with G-d. America hasn't changed much from that Era culturally.

BS.

That slave-owning, witch-hunting society is a thing of the past. I imagine that in two generations racism will go the same way. Just because human beings have a natural tendency to be obedient to authority doesn't mean the causes of individual liberty, reason, peace and prosperity haven't made made progress. Our society has changed and for a great swath of the population it has changed for the better.

Anti Federalist
02-02-2012, 07:08 AM
Yes, quite true, the situation is nothing new...


and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

People have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, through revolution, to freedom, for the most part.

Most of us in the remnant don't have the stomach for that.

So here we sit, fiddling as Rome burns.


This is a simplistic point of view but I'll write it anyway: If you look at the history of human behavior, you'll note that we behave like herd animals for the most part - it is a natural inclination. It's been a known fact throughout history. Which is why the Bible refers to us as "sheep" and the "Shepard". Those who rise to leadership levels know and understand this, and we are generally at the mercy of their intentions. Bernays understood this better than any modern day manipulator, which is why Goebbels was an ardent student, read all of his books, and even tried to get a meeting with him despite the fact that he was a jew.

Bernays discusses how in WW1, most people were opposed to the war, but by having Germans stereotyped as monsters in various news-reels, or by spreading clever, racist, anti-German ethnic jokes, he and his Committee (the Creel Committee) were able to increase public support for US intervention on the behalf of the British Empire.

Sound familiar?

What sets us (Ron Paul supporters) apart from the masses, is that we are the remnant. I truly believe that. We are the remaining vestiges of an idea, that idea being true liberty. I believe, as Thomas Jefferson did, that it is God given. And I don't think God will abandon us. However I can't say that about the ignorant masses.

NidStyles
02-02-2012, 09:22 AM
BS.

That slave-owning, witch-hunting society is a thing of the past. I imagine that in two generations racism will go the same way. Just because human beings have a natural tendency to be obedient to authority doesn't mean the causes of individual liberty, reason, peace and prosperity haven't made made progress. Our society has changed and for a great swath of the population it has changed for the better.

Uhh, the Puritans didn't own slaves. That was the English Governors that eventually moved in to the US after the Indenture servitude era had been running low on steam, and after the boom of the Puritan based economy had encouraged England to start sending over more of it's Corporate representatives.

None of your argument has anything to do with the cultural impact they made on early America that still is present and seen today. Puritan culture is still very alive in the power centers of the US, where they view anyone that is not successful in their own mind as part of Nature and to be abused. This is where that mindset comes from, and it's also part of where Mercantilism came from. Look at where the Puritans settled and where the centers of power are in the Federal Government. They are in the same locations.

flightlesskiwi
02-02-2012, 09:48 AM
Yes, quite true, the situation is nothing new...



People have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, through revolution, to freedom, for the most part.

Most of us in the remnant don't have the stomach for that.

So here we sit, fiddling as Rome burns.

i don't think some of us are sitting and fiddling-- i think some of us are standing up and shouting out in the hopes of gaining attention.

after all, one can create a scenario in which a person hears, but one cannot force that same person to actually listen. just ask Ron.

donnay
02-02-2012, 10:05 AM
BS.

That slave-owning, witch-hunting society is a thing of the past.

You think? As it stands now, we are all slaves to the Banksters--we are slaves to debt. Presidential Executive Order 11051 allows the government to separate family members "as it see's fit" under this Executive order--emergency powers (we have been under it since 1933, by-the-way). If we do not stop the tyranny, we will all be slaves on the global plantation!!


As far as the witch-hunting society is concerned-- do you remember Ruby Ridge, Waco and Ed and Elaine Brown? How about the countless people serving heavy jail sentences for possession of marijuana? How about the tons of documented cases of the DEA making night raids on people, allegedly tipped off (by an informant) to have drugs. They bust into a home, at the witching hour of 3am, to find no drugs in the home, but the owner thought he was being burglarized and tried to defend his property, only to be shot to ribbons in the process.

How about anyone who speaks out against Israel? You know, back in Nazi-Germany, the people turned away and closed their eyes so they wouldn't see what was happening. Is history to be repeated in America? Except this time, we will be the Jews.

Americans are at the precipice, are we going to jump or prepared to make a stand? The leaders are not those who make the laws, our elected representatives were to be subservient to us--the people! The leaders are in each and every one of us! The choice is ours and ours alone. We can sit back, like the people throughout history, hoping for others to fight and win, or we can stand up for what is right!

I could go on and on, giving you examples. Just because we aren't in Salem, Massachusetts (Circa 1692) or Nazi-Germany (Circa 1933) doesn't mean witch-hunts aren't taking place. Just because history has taught us the slaves were black doesn't mean we are not slaves today.

It's time to be on the right side of history. As for me, I have made my decision long ago. I know the contest for liberty is not going to be a cake walk. The hardest part is waking the people up! This is your courtesy wake up call!!

Pericles
02-02-2012, 10:30 AM
An aspect of this that is rarely if ever discussed is that of the psychology of identity and vicarious experience.

I have observed that the more powerless people feel, the more they want to feel powerful. This appears to be very rational and understandable. What is not rational is the way people proceed pursuant to those drives, which run broadly to the irrational and indeed the self- and mutually-destructive.

Given a strong desire to feel in possession of power that in fact remains elusive, people will irrationally do what feels like the next closest thing, which is to attach themselves to something that is powerful. What easier object than one's "nation" is there with which one might identify? Not too many and few, if any, to equal the power of the state, at least to casual and common eyes. We see this all the time in lesser examples including sports teams where people get very emotionally invested in who won what.

Thus we have someone feeling powerless, wanting to feel otherwise but is unable to change his circumstance in the desired way. He psychologically attaches himself like a coat-tail hanger to something he sees as powerful, and therefore worthy of his praise - the "nation" or "the state" or the "government" - all the same nonsense. Having so attached himself and given the well understood proclivities of the mean citizen with respect to the pursuit of personal power, our sad sack is in the perfect condition to cheer on his idol-government as they acquire greater power by whatever means they can manage because as it becomes more powerful, by extension so does he. It is really a very simple and readily expectable development, given human nature. Equally predictable is the destruction of liberty that results because people are not only willing to be seduced by those telling them all the things they want to hear, but demand it and will become violent against anyone threatening the comfort that it promises. All astute power mongers recognize this and capitalize on it, often with disastrous results.

Sadly, this appears to describe a very large majority of humanity.

Indeed, such does seem to be the case. One of the things that kept me busy in a bad way in the Army, was whacking people who would abuse their authority.

Deborah K
02-02-2012, 12:33 PM
Yes, quite true, the situation is nothing new...



People have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, through revolution, to freedom, for the most part.

Most of us in the remnant don't have the stomach for that.

So here we sit, fiddling as Rome burns.

The system under which the sheep have been herded is entrenched because it's been 100 years since its establishment. We have our work cut out for us, but we are on the side of the Lord and we will prevail. Will it be easy? No. It's been really hard and it will probably get much much worse before it gets better. But look at what we've accomplished since the last election? The status quo is now considering how to deal with us, publicly saying such things as "we had better be nice to RP and his supporters" and throwing us 'bones' like Rand Paul as Veep. The other criminals, uh... candidates are parroting some of his views now. And, who knows what they're concocting behind the scenes. Last time, they laughed at us and successfully marginalized us. Revolutionary change like the kind we want - peaceful - like Gandhi - takes time. Be patient Grasshoppa.

osan
02-02-2012, 07:26 PM
People have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, through revolution, to freedom, for the most part.

Yes, but it is even worse. Even those professing their ardent support of freedom and "revolution" are anemic in terms of action. Consider the Free State Project. At least a decade old and what have they accomplished? Next to nothing. If we cannot reclaim one of the smallest states - one LOUSY state - how can anyone seriously suggest that freedom will indeed be reestablished in the USA? Such claims are ridiculous in the face of the truth.

It remains with me that the only likely chance freedom has will be in the aftermath of a truly monumental global catastrophe - one of such proportions that the governments of nation-states as now commonly exist are greatly attenuated or even eliminated in the wake. I give marginal credence to the possibility that a severe economic collapse might suffice to get people out of their seats, though a strongly surviving government is most likely to turn openly violent against even the most modest challenges to its authority under such circumstances... wounded animals being what they tend to be.


So here we sit, fiddling as Rome burns.

Indeed.

cindy25
02-02-2012, 07:41 PM
they want to be taken care of like caged white rats

Seraphim
02-02-2012, 09:23 PM
I agree with this.

Also, one of the first posts had Philelm say the society is "souless"...I wouldn't say souless...but the soul is sleeping/numbed.


They don't want tyranny. They don't know any better.

War is Peace
Indoctrination is Education
Fake Money is Real
Tyranny is Freedom

awake
02-02-2012, 09:30 PM
"Forgive them, for they know not what they do"

Alexander Solzhenitsyn I think sums it up in his Warning to the West:

"At the height of Stalin's terror in 1937-38, if we divide the number of persons executed by the number of months, we get more than 40,000 persons shot per month! Here are the figures: 17 a year, 10 a month, more than 1,000 a month, more than 40,000 a month! Thus, that which had made it difficult for the democratic West to form an alliance with pre-revolutionary Russia had, by 1941, grown to such an extent and still did not prevent the entire united democracy of the world - England, France, the United States, Canada, Australia and small countries - from entering into a military alliance with the Soviet Union. How is this to be explained? How can we understand it? Here we can offer a few explanations.

The first, I think, is that the entire united democracy of the world was too weak to fight against Hitler's Germany alone. If this is the case, then it is a terrible sign. It is a terrible portent for the present day. If all these countries together could not defeat Hitler's little Germany, what are they going to do today, when more than half the globe is flooded with totalitarianism? I don't want to accept this explanation.


The second explanation is perhaps that there was simply an attack of panic - of fear - among the statesmen of the day. They simply didn't have sufficient confidence in themselves, they simply had no strength of spirit, and in this confused state decided to enter into an alliance with Soviet totalitarianism. This is also not flattering to the West.


Finally, the third explanation is that it was a deliberate device. Democracy did not want to defend itself. For defense it wanted to use another totalitarian system, the Soviet totalitarian system.


I'm not talking now about the moral evaluation of this, I'm going to talk about that later. But in terms of simple calculation, how shortsighted, what profound self-deception!


We have a Russian proverb: "Do not call a wolf to help you against the dogs." If dogs are attacking and tearing at you, fight against the dogs, but do not call a wolf for help. Because when the wolves come, they will destroy the dogs, but they will also tear you apart."




The form of totalitarianism we are fighting against is the kind that grows at the speed of grass - imperceptible to the eye but notable over time. It grows up to envelop the people slowly and completly, never rasing much alarm. This is precisly the point when it is too late to do anything about it. I fear that this is the most potent form of all totalitarin incarnations.

VoluntaryAmerican
02-02-2012, 09:46 PM
Yes, but it is even worse. Even those professing their ardent support of freedom and "revolution" are anemic in terms of action. Consider the Free State Project. At least a decade old and what have they accomplished? Next to nothing. If we cannot reclaim one of the smallest states - one LOUSY state - how can anyone seriously suggest that freedom will indeed be reestablished in the USA? Such claims are ridiculous in the face of the truth.

It remains with me that the only likely chance freedom has will be in the aftermath of a truly monumental global catastrophe - one of such proportions that the governments of nation-states as now commonly exist are greatly attenuated or even eliminated in the wake. I give marginal credence to the possibility that a severe economic collapse might suffice to get people out of their seats, though a strongly surviving government is most likely to turn openly violent against even the most modest challenges to its authority under such circumstances... wounded animals being what they tend to be.


I agree with this point sincerely.

In my understanding of history, only when a society is in complete shut down, when every man women and child is face to face with political reality, and is conciously thinking about their political future, are they prepared to accept a new political future or a new set of ideas to embrace.

We need to hope to have the numbers when that time comes to fill the vaccuum of ideas and reinstitute our ideas and be prepared to reject the statist, murderous ideas, that led us to this time in history.

Miss Annie
02-02-2012, 10:24 PM
i don't think some of us are sitting and fiddling-- i think some of us are standing up and shouting out in the hopes of gaining attention.

after all, one can create a scenario in which a person hears, but one cannot force that same person to actually listen. just ask Ron.

That is so key. There is such a big difference than someone hearing and actually listening!

heavenlyboy34
02-02-2012, 10:29 PM
I agree with this point sincerely.

In my understanding of history, only when a society is in complete shut down, when every man women and child is face to face with political reality, and is conciously thinking about their political future, are they prepared to accept a new political future or a new set of ideas to embrace.

We need to hope to have the numbers when that time comes to fill the vaccuum of ideas and reinstitute our ideas and be prepared to reject the statist, murderous ideas, that led us to this time in history.
+a bunch.

cindy25
02-02-2012, 10:31 PM
Ron does win the under 29 vote, and that was impossible 4 years ago

PierzStyx
02-02-2012, 10:37 PM
As long as the average American can sit on the sofa at the end of the day with a bag of chips, a soda, and the remote control, it's hard to get them to care about anything important. Just leave American Idol alone!! :rolleyes:

Its the Fahrenheit 451 effect. If you give the people enough pleasure then they ignore the harsh reality they are in.

PierzStyx
02-02-2012, 10:58 PM
They want tyranny because they are afraid. They are afraid of the terrorists, the criminals, the corporations that want to kill and maim their customers, the private schools teaching 'hate', the 'chaos' of decentralized decisionmaking, and the 'stinginess' of charitable donors who only want to give to people who are worse off than themselves. And until we address those fears, the majority of people will not be interested in liberty.

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain."

and


"A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."

Both from 1984.


People are afraid. In that fear they are willing to accept anything. Make people afraid and justify their fear and they will give you any power you want. And those in power play these fears like you play with Play-Doh, molding and forming it to fit the given situational mold.

heavenlyboy34
02-02-2012, 10:59 PM
Its the Fahrenheit 451 effect. If you give the people enough pleasure then they ignore the harsh reality they are in.
Ah, Bread And Circuses-an age old, time-tested technique that almost always works.

mport1
02-02-2012, 11:28 PM
This is why governments have and always will expand and eventually fail. It is against one's individual self interest to stand up against the state. Through political action, it is extremly unlikely that your individual actions will have any impact on diminishing the power of the state, yet it is guaranteed to cost you time, money, stress, etc. if you try to do something. Additionally, civil disobedience and/or non-compliance have even higher costs at the individual level. For most people it is the rational, self interested thing to do to just remain apathetic and inactive.

ryanmkeisling
02-02-2012, 11:29 PM
People have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, through revolution, to freedom, for the most part.

Most of us in the remnant don't have the stomach for that.

So here we sit, fiddling as Rome burns.


This. Fuck.:toady: +rep

Endgame
02-03-2012, 03:19 AM
I've come to this conclusion a long time ago. It's sadomasochism. The human herd instinct. It never ends well. WW3 and millions dead will change the status quo. I'm not sure that anything else will.

Paul Fan
02-03-2012, 03:38 AM
"A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."

Both from 1984.


People are afraid. In that fear they are willing to accept anything. Make people afraid and justify their fear and they will give you any power you want. And those in power play these fears like you play with Play-Doh, molding and forming it to fit the given situational mold.

Yes. People are afraid. They are afraid of everything, as I posted above. That is why they don't want freedom. But why are they afraid? And how can we help them conquer their fear? Someone please help me understand this.

thoughtomator
02-03-2012, 03:45 AM
on the bright side this gets us to a libertarian society

on the not-so-bright side it's the Mad Max route

Travlyr
02-03-2012, 04:25 AM
Yes. People are afraid. They are afraid of everything, as I posted above. That is why they don't want freedom. But why are they afraid? And how can we help them conquer their fear? Someone please help me understand this.
I remember back in the 60's in a small mid-west town of total insignificance the siren would go off and we were instructed to duck under our desks as a drill in case of nuclear attack. Yeah, I was scared. I wondered if the desk was stronger than the ceiling.

If the tornado siren went off, then we were drilled to go into the hallway and place our hands over our heads. Yeah, I was scared.

When I heard on the news that burglars and gangs were infesting our town to buy drugs, yeah, I was scared. Then one day I learned that a murder had taken place in our small town, scared again.

On TV, if it bleeds it leads. Hitler wanted to kill all Americans. World War II was to keep us safe for democracy. The Viet Nam war was to spread the good word of Democracy ... let alone the fact that my friend Benny who had to wear thick glasses just to see was put on the front line. He was killed... yeah, I was scared.

Cops bust down doors, beat people, taser them, and kill if necessary without warrants signed by judges as required by law. Yeah, I'm scared.

Who is not scared of Islamo-fascists hiding under their beds? They want to kill us because we are free.

You can see it all over TV and the radio all the time. Blow em up... beat em up... rapists... crazy... demented people with guns everywhere.. in the schools... in the airport... in the subway... they are everywhere... on the streets. Cop shows, criminal investigation, judges and juries, emergency sirens, evil powers wanting to take over the world and destroy all the good to perpetuate evil.

Why all this fear in life?

Control.

It is all about control.


"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation and I care not who makes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the Rothschild international Banking Dynasty, 1790

Whoever controls the money supply controls the people.


"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison


"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power of money should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson

Anti Federalist
02-03-2012, 07:36 AM
This!

While I am certainly glad of the progress that has been made, and that on some fronts, we seem to "winning", the sad fact of the matter is that all of that is supercial and illusory.

Let there be a massive massacre by some lunatic with a firearm and watch how fast all the "gains" made on the firearms freedom front dry up and blow away.

Let there be some bio terror event (real or government manufactured, like the anthrax attacks) that kills tens or hundreds of thousands of people and watch how fast people will fall in line.

Government could tell them at that point, that they could only save themselves by butchering their first born children, and people would do it, happily.


"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain."

and


"A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."

Both from 1984.


People are afraid. In that fear they are willing to accept anything. Make people afraid and justify their fear and they will give you any power you want. And those in power play these fears like you play with Play-Doh, molding and forming it to fit the given situational mold.

MsDoodahs
02-03-2012, 08:01 AM
"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet, and say to us, "Make us your slaves, but feed us."

donnay
02-03-2012, 09:13 AM
"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
~Samuel Adams

"Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants."
~Benjamin Franklin

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."
~Patrick Henry

"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
~James Madison

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
~Thomas Paine

"We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war [civil war] is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood ... It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless."
~President Abraham Lincoln

"Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master."
~Dwight D. Eisenhower

helmuth_hubener
02-03-2012, 10:04 AM
I remember back in the 60's in a small mid-west town of total insignificance the siren would go off and we were instructed to duck under our desks as a drill in case of nuclear attack. Yeah, I was scared. I wondered if the desk was stronger than the ceiling.

If the tornado siren went off, then we were drilled to go into the hallway and place our hands over our heads. Yeah, I was scared.

When I heard on the news that burglars and gangs were infesting our town to buy drugs, yeah, I was scared. Then one day I learned that a murder had taken place in our small town, scared again.

On TV, if it bleeds it leads. Hitler wanted to kill all Americans. World War II was to keep us safe for democracy. The Viet Nam war was to spread the good word of Democracy ... let alone the fact that my friend Benny who had to wear thick glasses just to see was put on the front line. He was killed... yeah, I was scared.

Cops bust down doors, beat people, taser them, and kill if necessary without warrants signed by judges as required by law. Yeah, I'm scared.

Who is not scared of Islamo-fascists hiding under their beds? They want to kill us because we are free.

You can see it all over TV and the radio all the time. Blow em up... beat em up... rapists... crazy... demented people with guns everywhere.. in the schools... in the airport... in the subway... they are everywhere... on the streets. Cop shows, criminal investigation, judges and juries, emergency sirens, evil powers wanting to take over the world and destroy all the good to perpetuate evil.

Why all this fear in life? I think that lack of fear is one of the "psychologically predispositioning" character traits which predisposition one to be libertarian. Libertarians just aren't that easily scared. I have never been scared of terrorists. I have never been scared of chaos and pillaging erupting in the absence of a government. I have never been scared of the boogieman of businessmen charging high prices or getting monopolies or abusing us in all the different ways they supposedly would without gov't restraining them. I can't even relate to these fears.

Many people appear to base much of their world-view on fear. That makes them more easily manipulated. Of course one can have a lot of these fears, can be thus vulnerable to a lot of the fear-mongering tactics of the gov't, and nevertheless break out of that and come to libertarian conclusions anyway, ala Brother Jonathan (Travlyr) above (and many other libertarians I know). It's a lot easier, though, if you have a less-than-average fear factor.

Fear is the tool they use against us. Let us all realize that and train ourselves to be impervious to their attempts at mongering fear in us, and also in learning techniques to break through the fear barriers the goons have covered others with and disable the fear viruses the goons have implanted in people's minds.

HOLLYWOOD
02-03-2012, 11:18 AM
https://p.twimg.com/AbvZI1eCEAE1sDS.jpg:large

Endgame
02-03-2012, 12:52 PM
Congress voted to allow the president to imprison or kill anyone with no due process. No one noticed. Is a false flag even necessary?

donnay
02-03-2012, 12:56 PM
Congress voted to allow the president to imprison or kill anyone with no due process. No one noticed. Is a false flag even necessary?

They cannot arrest all of us! There is still a semblance of freedom out there, if they move too quickly then they have to worry about a mass awakening!

Fear allows them to get tighter control, until they are completely in control.

Endgame
02-03-2012, 03:00 PM
They cannot arrest all of us! There is still a semblance of freedom out there, if they move too quickly then they have to worry about a mass awakening!

Fear allows them to get tighter control, until they are completely in control.

If people are willing to accept that without a recent widely publicized false flag, just wait till some brown person detonates a dirty bomb in Lincoln Nebraska, or some other totally expendable "heartland" locale.

Read any right-wing forum. Conservative Americans want mass murder of brown people and anyone else that disagrees with them. They are a menace to the entire planet. Getting them to go totally Nazi at this point will just take a little spark.

heavenlyboy34
02-03-2012, 03:05 PM
They cannot arrest all of us! There is still a semblance of freedom out there, if they move too quickly then they have to worry about a mass awakening!

Fear allows them to get tighter control, until they are completely in control.
...yet. They'll tax us to build bigger prisons (a Prison Archipelago, as it were) first. ;) :(

DamianTV
02-03-2012, 04:25 PM
They've already fully awakened the sleeping giant, and the giant is pissed!

Anti Federalist
02-04-2012, 06:21 AM
////

Paul Fan
02-04-2012, 07:23 AM
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to help reduce people's fearfulness?

donnay
02-04-2012, 09:37 AM
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to help reduce people's fearfulness?

Yeah, get right with God. A lot of the fear stems from peoples own mortality.

nasaal
02-04-2012, 10:08 AM
They want a benevolent dictatorship. It isn't hard to see, I think many of us refuse to believe that because we don't want it to be true. People in general want to be led. They like being told what to do so that they have no responsibility in the matter. In all honesty, if that is what they American people want, well that is their choice. I'll move out of the country as quickly as possible, but I respect the decision of the majority coming to life.

DamianTV
02-04-2012, 11:43 AM
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to help reduce people's fearfulness?

I could probably come up with some long winded version of an answer, but the truth is, people just need to be aware that the state of the Govt right now as compared to what is coming is much much worse. THAT is what people should be afraid of. Thus, if they fear what is coming more, hopefully they will have the courage to stand up against what exists right now.

What people should not do is to fear their own Liberty and Freedom.

Anti Federalist
02-08-2012, 07:08 AM
Yeah, get right with God. A lot of the fear stems from peoples own mortality.

A society in love with killing yet terrified of death and their own mortality.

When you have been as wicked as we have, as a people, I can understand that fear.

osan
02-08-2012, 08:38 AM
A society in love with killing yet terrified of death and their own mortality.

When you have been as wicked as we have, as a people, I can understand that fear.

The same can be said about sex. So many Americans are conflicted between obsession and hatred/fear.

We can thank the abusive religious traditions for this. The race is probably doomed... but I repeat myself.

donnay
02-08-2012, 09:08 AM
What it proves to me is their psychological war is working. It's our duty (those of us who are awake) to snap these people out of it!!

Eagles' Wings
02-08-2012, 09:12 AM
For my particular loved one, it is not so much fear of the future, but pride in what is thought to be true. After decades of studying political/war history, it is devastating to consider that what you once believed could be false.

Moebedda
02-08-2012, 09:40 AM
And all we can do about it is humbly act in the manner that we wish all others would act.
We've got to be more tolerant, we've got to be tireless, we've got to be better educated, we've got to be more pleasant, we've got to be more presentable, than EVERYONE who disagrees with us or who has yet to take the red pill.

It's all we can do.

In the long run we will win. The long run might not be this year. It might not be this decade. It might not be our lifetime. But the message of liberty, built on the foundation of individual virtue and mutual respect will win, because it has to. Our part in this is to live the way we wish others would live and lead by example.

You got it my friend. This is the truth.

Ghandi said "Be the change you wish to see in the world." We have all heard people say to lead by example. We know that MANY MANY people follow what others do. We call them sheeple. People who have not swallowed the red pill follow the masses. Plato said "The masses are incurably ignorant". This must be understood. Do we really need everyone swallowing the red pill? Many people don't want to know the truth. Instead of trying to hammer this into the ones who do not want to be informed, maybe we need to figure out a way to leverage their ignornace. Maybe being this change is the answer instead of trying to convince everyone that they need to change.

Here is one thing I have done to be that change. I canceled my cable and no longer watch the news or much TV for that matter. It is my belief that the negativity and consumerism message that you get on TV poisons the minds of our society. They tell us how to think and what to buy. So much of what you get on the TV is garbage. EVERYONE complains about how depressing the news is, yet they turn it on anyway and will ALWAYS come up with some excuse why they must watch it. I hear this all of the time. Why do we keep doing something that effects us in such a negative way? Turn it off for a week or two and you will understand what I talk about. Turning off the TV will force you to live a little. Doing something beside watching TV will turn into something positive, because so much of the negativity you get on TV has absolutely NOTHING to do with your existence. And I am speaking to all of you MSM haters out there. TURN IT OFF. I certainly don't need it anymore. I am much better off without it. And if I don't need it, no one does.

Eagles' Wings
02-08-2012, 09:52 AM
Great post, Moe.

We've found a hilarious comedy series from Canada, ordered from the library, called "Corner Gas". Family of all ages loves it. Some swearing, mostly jack a**.

Library has tons of oldies, classics, Dr. Who, Alfred Hitchcock, you name it. This is about all we use the tv for now.

ZenBowman
02-08-2012, 10:21 AM
Sadly I think that this is all the result of a paranoid society.

I always feel that when Ron Paul uses the term "welfare-warfare" state he is resorting to standard Red Scare propaganda, albeit unintentionally. The reality of the world is that none of the welfare states are warfare states.

Welfare states
Canada
Australia
Sweden
Norway
Iceland
Germany
Spain

Warfare states
USA
Iran
Pakistan
North Korea

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact it is precisely the opposite, the best way to create a warfare state is to eliminate welfare, thereby reducing social cohesion, reducing cooperation, increasing competition and aggression, and creating a paranoid mentality (constant stress due to lack of a social safety net). There's a reason that Americans are more paranoid than people in any other developed nation, its because they know they can get fucked at any time, and there's nothing there to help them. That paranoia expresses itself through endless war and the support of warmongers.

People are also dead right that the media in the US is highly consumerist, again, that is very different from the welfare states I mentioned in the list, where media still believes in public service. We are not a welfare-warfare state. We are a warfare state.

Were we a welfare state, we wouldn't be a warfare state.

flightlesskiwi
02-08-2012, 10:37 AM
i disagree. we are both.

the federal reserve fiat monetary system as well as the FRN being the reserve currency of the world enables both. it's quite a unique time to be alive.


Sadly I think that this is all the result of a paranoid society.

I always feel that when Ron Paul uses the term "welfare-warfare" state he is resorting to standard Red Scare propaganda, albeit unintentionally. The reality of the world is that none of the welfare states are warfare states.

Welfare states
Canada
Australia
Sweden
Norway
Iceland
Germany
Spain

Warfare states
USA
Iran
Pakistan
North Korea

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact it is precisely the opposite, the best way to create a warfare state is to eliminate welfare, thereby reducing social cohesion, reducing cooperation, increasing competition and aggression, and creating a paranoid mentality (constant stress due to lack of a social safety net). There's a reason that Americans are more paranoid than people in any other developed nation, its because they know they can get fucked at any time, and there's nothing there to help them. That paranoia expresses itself through endless war and the support of warmongers.

People are also dead right that the media in the US is highly consumerist, again, that is very different from the welfare states I mentioned in the list, where media still believes in public service. We are not a welfare-warfare state. We are a warfare state.

Were we a welfare state, we wouldn't be a warfare state.

ConCap
02-08-2012, 02:15 PM
There is no doubt TSWHTF, the only question is, will we ride out the storm, each to their own, or will we ride it out some where together and start over with out them, only this time with out the commerce clause?
If the latter, where?

AFPVet
02-08-2012, 02:57 PM
Many Americans just want their television and beer. ... just wait until their unemployment runs out and they can't find a job.

heavenlyboy34
02-08-2012, 03:04 PM
i disagree. we are both.

the federal reserve fiat monetary system as well as the FRN being the reserve currency of the world enables both. it's quite a unique time to be alive.
+1 (plus, our welfare state is global in scale. IIRC, not even the Romans could achieve that)

bolil
02-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Maybe if the Roman Central bank printed more Denarii they woulda made it....

DamianTV
02-09-2012, 06:19 AM
I just wanted to say that after another useless day of job hunting and being told to "go online" (to be ignored) I have come to the conclusion that the level of Apathy in this country has never been higher. People hold on to the jobs they do have, but take absolutely no pride in performing them. Managers tell me that there are more people coming in to apply for jobs than are people coming in to purchase producs or services. The "Economic Recovery" is a complete sham. I saw another staggering statistic that said we had lost more jobs last month, when we supposedly "Gained Jobs", than any time ever in history. Makes more sense the way it is calculated too. Count the Tax Forms. I'd say there are less jobs today than there were a year ago. And those fortunate enough to even have any kind of a job are barely holding on to both their financial status, which is already most likely slipping, and the job itself.

I dont think we need to do anything to make our situation any worse. If we dont change a single thing, no new bailouts, no more assinine laws, this country is guaranteed to be in Revolution very very soon. However, they cant help to get their hands even dirtier. More bills being proposed to deprive the people that created this country of everything they have left. SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, NDAA, Patriot Act, they are all only the Tip of the Iceberg.

The best thing to come out of all of this is there has never been a time when people like Ron Paul are taking the reigns and doing everything they can to change the course. And the support of the people is there, like never before. And not just the United States, but around the world. Everyone has had it with the Corruption, the Secret Back Door Deals, the Endless Spending, the Neverending Wars, and the flat out Defecation on the Face of Humanity itself. And we are going to change it for the better.

May you live in Interesting Times...

Johnny Appleseed
02-09-2012, 08:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeFMZAoOOjE&feature=player_embedded