A different drug problem....

[flightlesskiwi]

speaks for itself:

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/316288_2579059238913_1327369660_3076566_340334598_ n.jpg

[donnay]

Great LTE!! +rep The problem is the government is regulating these drugs too!! :mad:

[Danke]

speaks for itself:


That explains a lot.

[TexAg09]

I still wish it was like that nowadays....

[Yieu]

Darn... well that was awkward. It took me until the end of the article to realize the author was speaking positively of the things their parents did to them.

I thought it was a well-deserved complaint against being forced to do things against your will.

[Acala]

Yes, it is very important that children be trained to the lash of authority early and often so they become good, compliant citizens later. If you can break their spirit early, when they are too small to resist brute force, they will be inured to the yoke and not raise a fuss when it is time for them to enter the work camp and labor for the benefit of the elite.

[Yieu]

Yes, it is very important that children be trained to the lash of authority early and often so they become good, compliant citizens later. If you can break their spirit early, when they are too small to resist brute force, they will be inured to the yoke and not raise a fuss when it is time for them to enter the work camp and labor for the benefit of the elite.

Okay, so I'm not alone. :)

[KCIndy]

double post
double post

[KCIndy]

Too bad the letter writer wasn't "drug" to a few English classes, too!
:D

[Jingles]

I tend to disagree with this. My grandparents raised me without using any physical action, yelling, force, etc... They just taught me to be polite, treat others how I wanted to be treated, be respectful, and in turn they were respectful to me, talked to me like I was a person and not a "child", etc... I always did well in school. Basically it was just positive reinforcement, love, care, and kindness.

I don't think force is really necessary in regards to raising a child. You just need to be engaged with them, teach them, answer questions, and treat as a human being like any other. It wasn't discipline that made me understand moral behavior, but by following the example set by my grandparents and them explaining why such actions/ways of acting are moral.

[donnay]

I tend to disagree with this. My grandparents raised me without using any physical action, yelling, force, etc... They just taught me to be polite, treat others how I wanted to be treated, be respectful, and in turn they were respectful to me, talked to me like I was a person and not a "child", etc... I always did well in school. Basically it was just positive reinforcement, love, care, and kindness.

I don't think force is really necessary in regards to raising a child. You just need to be engaged with them, teach them, answer questions, and treat as a human being like any other. It wasn't discipline that made me understand moral behavior, but by following the example set by my grandparents and them explaining why such actions/ways of acting are moral.

Do you have siblings?

[Jingles]

Do you have siblings?

No.

[Yieu]

Do you have siblings?

No.

Though Ron Paul did have 5 kids without using force or spanking them.

[eduardo89]

Though Ron Paul did have 5 kids without using force or spanking them.

I'm pretty sure he disciplined them.

[xFiFtyOnE]

Meh. One of my best friends went to church twice a week as a child and had pretty strict parents, he is now a crackhead. I rarely attended church growing up and don't do drugs. I rarely even drink (drank a few beers on New Years eve, first time in like 9 months).

[donnay]

No.

That's probably a good reason why your grandparents didn't lose their cotton pickin' minds. j/k

However, I have four children of my own, raised 6, and I rarely ever had to spank them, other than when they were tot's and touching things that may hurt them severely. As they grew up, there was always discipline, rules and regulations--our house was definitely not a democracy it was King and Queen rule. :) I think most parents would say the teenage years are the most colorful ones, to memory. *SIGH*

Even the good book says: "Spare the rod, spoil the child."

Edit to add: My husband and I were a united front too. That makes a huge difference as to the kids thinking they can win one over the other and pull other tricks. We ate dinner together, we prayed together and we had fun together, as well. These things are important, IMHO.

[oyarde]

Meh. One of my best friends went to church twice a week as a child and had pretty strict parents, he is now a crackhead. I rarely attended church growing up and don't do drugs. I rarely even drink (drank a few beers on New Years eve, first time in like 9 months). I suggest you have a beer more often :)

[specsaregood]

I tend to disagree with this. My grandparents raised me without using any physical action, yelling, force, etc... They just taught me to be polite, treat others how I wanted to be treated, be respectful, and in turn they were respectful to me, talked to me like I was a person and not a "child", etc... I always did well in school. Basically it was just positive reinforcement, love, care, and kindness.

I don't think force is really necessary in regards to raising a child. You just need to be engaged with them, teach them, answer questions, and treat as a human being like any other. It wasn't discipline that made me understand moral behavior, but by following the example set by my grandparents and them explaining why such actions/ways of acting are moral.

I posted this in an older thread, but its worth reposting:


An especially powerful example of the influence of parenting style on moral development is found in the book, "The Altruistic Personality" by Samuel and Pearl Oliner. The Oliners conducted over 700 interviews with survivors of Nazi occupied Europe -- both "rescuers" (those who actively rescued victims of Nazi persecution) and "non-rescuers" (those who were either passive in the face of the persecution or actively involved in it). The study revealed profound differences in the upbringing of the two groups -- in both the language and practices the parents used to teach their values.

It likely comes as no surprise that the morality of adults reflects their moral education as children. What may surprise some, given traditional beliefs about moral education, is which kind of moral education leads to which result.

Non-rescuers were twenty-one times more likely than rescuers to have grown up in families that emphasized obedience -- being given rules that were to be followed without question -- while rescuers were over three times more likely than non-rescuers to identify "reasoning" as an element of their moral education. "Explained," the authors note, "is the word most rescuers favored" in describing their parents' way of communicating rules and ethical concepts.

...
There is just one major exception, one way in which parents can actually impede their children's moral growth: "If it is simply indoctrination," he says, "it is worse than doing nothing. It interferes with moral development."

From: Raising Freethinkers pg. 34

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?292246-Obedience-vs.-Reasoning-influence-of-parenting-style-on-moral-development.

[heavenlyboy34]

Meh. One of my best friends went to church twice a week as a child and had pretty strict parents, he is now a crackhead. I rarely attended church growing up and don't do drugs. I rarely even drink (drank a few beers on New Years eve, first time in like 9 months).
One of my cousins received corporal punishment and wound up a crackhead and got knocked up by some scummy guy. My sister was spanked, and she is so rude she's been fired from numerous jobs. She's a certified vet tech but now works in a school cafeteria. She also dropped out of high school. Got her GED later, tho.

[donnay]

One of my cousins received corporal punishment and wound up a crackhead and got knocked up by some scummy guy. My sister was spanked, and she is so rude she's been fired from numerous jobs. She's a certified vet tech but now works in a school cafeteria. She also dropped out of high school. Got her GED later, tho.

My middle sister (the drama queen) got preferential treatment in my house growing up. My father catered to her every whim. It enabled her in such ways, as an adult, she still cannot do things on her own--she has had two failed marriages and is in her early forties. She is the one in the family that is the most disrespectful, rude and downright mean. Being the eldest, I was used to set the examples and I got my share of ass whippings and punishments (a lot of it due to her, btw). Nevertheless, I am very independent, have done things without much help and turned out to be a productive human being, if I say so myself. :D I have no regrets and I am thankful my parents were strict with me when I was growing up. Oh and I did not have to married nor am I a drug addict-- just sayin'.

[Danke]

Oh and I did not have to married nor am I a drug addict-- just sayin'.

I guess that's one way to put a positive spin on it...:D :toady:

[donnay]

I guess that's one way to put a positive spin on it...:D :toady:

LOL! My dad had a shotgun but it wasn't because I was pregnant. :D

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

My middle sister (the drama queen) got preferential treatment in my house growing up. My father catered to her every whim. It enabled her in such ways, as an adult, she still cannot do things on her own--she has had two failed marriages and is in her early forties. She is the one in the family that is the most disrespectful, rude and downright mean. Being the eldest, I was used to set the examples and I got my share of ass whippings and punishments (a lot of it due to her, btw). Nevertheless, I am very independent, have done things without much help and turned out to be a productive human being, if I say so myself. :D I have no regrets and I am thankful my parents were strict with me when I was growing up. Oh and I did not have to married nor am I a drug addict-- just sayin'.

You act like the choice is either Welfarism (preferential treatment), or Boot-licking Tyranny (obedience, lots of rules, force applied, etc.). Ya' know, there is the libertarian way. Reason, personal responsibility, freedom, mutual respect, and good ol' fashioned Golden Rule. Most parents say the teenage years are the worst because you are trying to control and own another human being when they want to be free. Of course they are going to rebel against parental tyranny. Just food for thought.

[donnay]

Go back to the 2nd page and my #16. I did not raise my children like my parents did. Just to clarify, I was not submissive but rather rebellious and very independent. I am strong willed to this day. This is why my parents always thought I was going to be the difficult one--I am only difficult to those who think they can impose their will on me and trample my rights. :) Again, I have no regrets, because I learned a great deal through those years!

[eduardo89]

One of my cousins received corporal punishment and wound up a crackhead and got knocked up by some scummy guy. My sister was spanked, and she is so rude she's been fired from numerous jobs. She's a certified vet tech but now works in a school cafeteria. She also dropped out of high school. Got her GED later, tho.

I was spanked, got hit with the belt, got my mouth washed out with soap, got slapped by my mom a few times for insulting her, got yelled at and I'll probably use those tools when my girl (minus the belt) is older if I ever have to. A child needs love and care, but also needs structured and order.

I had my rebellious phase when I was in high school, got in trouble a lot, got kicked out of boarding school and I attribute it to the fact that my dad was absent for most of my teenage years and I was sent to a very liberal boarding school (we were allowed to drink, smoke, very relaxed atmosphere). Looking back I wish I had had the structure, order and rules that were necessary to keep me in order. Not all kids need this, some are mature enough from a younger age that they can be given the freedom, other need rules, just like some children need more serious punishments for the same things some kids just need a talk about.

In my experience it's been the kids who had no discipline in their childhoods that ended up being the ones who are non-stop partiers, coke heads, and apathetic about anything important.

One of my good friends is another example...he lived in a household where his parents let him do whatever he wanted "so he could learn on his own and express himself". He graduated high school with an average 1% over the pass grade and all he's ever done with his life so far is take a few pottery classes at a community college, sell pot to 16 year old kids an lives in his parents basement.

[flightlesskiwi]

You act like the choice is either Welfarism (preferential treatment), or Boot-licking Tyranny (obedience, lots of rules, force applied, etc.). Ya' know, there is the libertarian way. Reason, personal responsibility, freedom, mutual respect, and good ol' fashioned Golden Rule. Most parents say the teenage years are the worst because you are trying to control and own another human being when they want to be free. Of course they are going to rebel against parental tyranny. Just food for thought.

i would add unconditional love.

in any relationship, there is going to be tension and conflict-- especially in close family relationships. this is why admission of mistakes and asking forgiveness and reconciliation is so important, imho.

i really love the Classical education movement (grammar, logic, rhetoric) because it goes hand in hand with what i've found as a parent: my kids aren't born with all the intellect, reasoning or capability to be equipped for a productive life. they need to be taught foundational "laws" (the oven is hot, a knife is sharp, etc) and disciplines (reading, writing, mathematics) that eventually lead to them self-teaching (with guidance sometimes) how to discover "deeper" things of life and living on their own.

ultimately: 1. parenting is quite difficult; 2. what works for one child doesn't necessarily work for the other; 3. if i'm not acting out of love, then i shouldn't be doing whatever it is i'm doing.

i honestly didn't want to create a stir.

[eduardo89]

i would add unconditional love.

in any relationship, there is going to be tension and conflict-- especially in close family relationships. this is why admission of mistakes and asking forgiveness and reconciliation is so important, imho.

i really love the Classical education movement (grammar, logic, rhetoric) because it goes hand in hand with what i've found as a parent: my kids aren't born with all the intellect, reasoning or capability to be equipped for a productive life. they need to be taught foundational "laws" (the oven is hot, a knife is sharp, etc) and disciplines (reading, writing, mathematics) that eventually lead to them self-teaching (with guidance sometimes) how to discover "deeper" things of life and living on their own.

ultimately: 1. parenting is quite difficult; 2. what works for one child doesn't necessarily work for the other; 3. if i'm not acting out of love, then i shouldn't be doing whatever it is i'm doing.

i honestly didn't want to create a stir.

Damn you and your amazing mothering skills!!! Your children need to learn an iron is not the "libertarian" by letting them touch it! (horrible way to learn as 6 year old Eduardo can tell you)

[donnay]

i would add unconditional love.

in any relationship, there is going to be tension and conflict-- especially in close family relationships. this is why admission of mistakes and asking forgiveness and reconciliation is so important, imho.

i really love the Classical education movement (grammar, logic, rhetoric) because it goes hand in hand with what i've found as a parent: my kids aren't born with all the intellect, reasoning or capability to be equipped for a productive life. they need to be taught foundational "laws" (the oven is hot, a knife is sharp, etc) and disciplines (reading, writing, mathematics) that eventually lead to them self-teaching (with guidance sometimes) how to discover "deeper" things of life and living on their own.

ultimately: 1. parenting is quite difficult; 2. what works for one child doesn't necessarily work for the other; 3. if i'm not acting out of love, then i shouldn't be doing whatever it is i'm doing.

i honestly didn't want to create a stir.

Yay! Here is another mother who gets it! I dare anyone call you a soccer Mom! :D +rep

[Invi]

Darn... well that was awkward. It took me until the end of the article to realize the author was speaking positively of the things their parents did to them.

I thought it was a well-deserved complaint against being forced to do things against your will.

that's what I was thinking. <.<

[eduardo89]

Darn... well that was awkward. It took me until the end of the article to realize the author was speaking positively of the things their parents did to them.

I thought it was a well-deserved complaint against being forced to do things against your will.

Such as taking a bath, learning to read, cleaning up after yourself...

[Acala]

[/B]

Such as taking a bath, learning to read, cleaning up after yourself...

A child doesn't need to be forced to learn to read. If the child sees you reading, and you take the time to read interesting books to the child, you will not be able to STOP the child from learning to read - unless you make it a duty and force them. The same goes for almost everything else.

[eduardo89]

A child doesn't need to be forced to learn to read. If the child sees you reading, and you take the time to read interesting books to the child, you will not be able to STOP the child from learning to read - unless you make it a duty and force them. The same goes for almost everything else.

Sadly not all children are like that. I was one of those kids you couldn't stop from reading. When my parents would ground me, the punishment was no more reading!!

My brother on the other hand...nothing could get him to enjoy reading and it had to be forced on him.

[Danke]

I was spanked, got hit with the belt, got my mouth washed out with soap, got slapped by my mom a few times for insulting her, got yelled at...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?357085-A-different-drug-problem....&p=4118953&viewfull=1#post4118953

[eduardo89]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?357085-A-different-drug-problem....&p=4118953&viewfull=1#post4118953

What exactly does it explain?

[Miss Annie]

I think societies child rearing methods have changed drastically. When mothers went to work, this changed the dynamics and the roles of the home drastically. I know that many homes and families have made this work successfully, but it has definitely taken it's toll on society.
I have been lucky to work from home.... but it has still even been a struggle doing that. I am a firm believer that children need a full time parent available at home!

[eduardo89]

I think societies child rearing methods have changed drastically. When mothers went to work, this changed the dynamics and the roles of the home drastically. I know that many homes and families have made this work successfully, but it has definitely taken it's toll on society.
I have been lucky to work from home.... but it has still even been a struggle doing that. I am a firm believer that children need a full time parent available at home!

This.

[dannno]

I was drug to church as a kid as well, so glad I'm clean of that nowadays..

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Sadly not all children are like that. I was one of those kids you couldn't stop from reading. When my parents would ground me, the punishment was no more reading!!

My brother on the other hand...nothing could get him to enjoy reading and it had to be forced on him.

Listen to yourself. Ever think he may have had a different learning personality? Further, you have a huge disconnect in your philosophical persuasion. I'd get that inconsistency worked out one way or the other -- either for or against control, obedience, and tyranny.

Children have a natural curiousity like nearly all human beings. How they quench their curiosity should be of no consequence, especially not in justifying the use of force and coercion.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I think societies child rearing methods have changed drastically. When mothers went to work, this changed the dynamics and the roles of the home drastically. I know that many homes and families have made this work successfully, but it has definitely taken it's toll on society.
I have been lucky to work from home.... but it has still even been a struggle doing that. I am a firm believer that children need a full time parent available at home!

I don't think it has had the effect you think it has had in comparison to where kids spend the majority of their time at Government-Schools. Society is shaped by these vile institutions. Hence the attack on homeschooling, unschooling, and other educational methods outside of State control. They always have the fall back position of the TV and other propaganda outlets, but the schools are the first line, and usually the most effective for the Corporate-Government establishment.

[Seraphim]

Same logic applies to Foreign Policy. :)


I tend to disagree with this. My grandparents raised me without using any physical action, yelling, force, etc... They just taught me to be polite, treat others how I wanted to be treated, be respectful, and in turn they were respectful to me, talked to me like I was a person and not a "child", etc... I always did well in school. Basically it was just positive reinforcement, love, care, and kindness.

I don't think force is really necessary in regards to raising a child. You just need to be engaged with them, teach them, answer questions, and treat as a human being like any other. It wasn't discipline that made me understand moral behavior, but by following the example set by my grandparents and them explaining why such actions/ways of acting are moral.

[Miss Annie]

I don't think it has had the effect you think it has had in comparison to where kids spend the majority of their time at Government-Schools. Society is shaped by these vile institutions. Hence the attack on homeschooling, unschooling, and other educational methods outside of State control. They always have the fall back position of the TV and other propaganda outlets, but the schools are the first line, and usually the most effective for the Corporate-Government establishment.

I think it is a combination. If more families had at least one parent at home full time, more children would be home schooled. I firmly believe that!