College Tuition

[Godmode7]

Obama is talking about college tuition now and gaining a lot of the young vote here where I live. How can I combat this? I need a fast simple way to educate them without boring them. None of them seem to want to do any research but if I can grab their attention they just might.

[MelissaWV]

There are two major points to consider, imo, and the rest are offshoots of these:

1. It is not free, or reduced; someone else is paying in so that you can get your education. Once you start working, you're going to be paying for others' education, probably at an increased rate. It's like taking out a payday loan.

2. If you give everyone a college education, then you will need a Master's to compete. You will need more schooling, and more money, in order to consider yourself "educated" enough to go for certain jobs. Of those jobs that already require additional schooling, you may now have an increased residency period, or apprenticeship requirement, or other such thing. How much money does that save you? How much time? So many people having a degree devalues the degree itself.

[dancjm]

Obama is making promises to get them to vote for him. Ask them if they voted for him last time to end the wars. How did that go for them?

Fact is Obama is making irresponsible promises which, looking at his record, he probably wont keep anyway.

At a time of economic turmoil in the US, do they really want a President who is making promises which will cost more money? I would suggest that they might want a President who acknowledges that there is a problem, and has a plan to deal with that problem.

"Free stuff for everyone" is good politics. Its bad economics and it is immoral. People should value honesty, not empty irresponsible promises.

Rant over.

[Godmode7]

Obama is making promises to get them to vote for him. Ask them if they voted for him last time to end the wars. How did that go for them?

Fact is Obama is making irresponsible promises which, looking at his record, he probably wont keep anyway.

At a time of economic turmoil in the US, do they really want a President who is making promises which will cost more money? I would suggest that they might want a President who acknowledges that there is a problem, and has a plan to deal with that problem.

"Free stuff for everyone" is good politics. Its bad economics and it is immoral. People should value honesty, not empty irresponsible promises.

Rant over.

I brought the war stuff up with one person and they tried to blame it all on bush. It was like talking to a little kid. One giant blame game for every negative thing towards Obama. Then when I bring up the NDAA they all approve of it and bring up how they don't want terrorists attacking them-_-

[Squid]

1: There used to be a time where you could go to college without even needing a Loan. It was only when Government began to get involved in Education that prices skyrocketed.

2: Ask them how much better it would be to go to school if you could Graduate debt free.

3: Not to mention that fact that after racking up over $100,000+ of debt what if they are still unable to get a job? And if they do get a job, they will forever be an indentured servant to the Government, continuing to pay them well into their 40-50's + interest.

(While you may not have to bring this up it has been speculated that the next big economic bubble to burst is the Student Loan bubble, thus even more severe consequences for these young kids)

[Publicani]

THe main point of course is that redistribution is immoral. A couple of other, minor points. If the government pumping other people's money in education, the students lose motivation because they don't compete with other students and the universities lose motivation because they don't compete with other universities for students. Education will deteriorate. And society will suffer when pseudo educated engineers hit the market.

[sailingaway]

When the government pays for it the user is not cost sensitive and the prices shoot up. that is why students end up indentured servants when they leave school. Ron Paul was able to work his way through college. However, Ron's budget plan, while balancing the budget in three years, along with not touching social security, medicare or veteran's benefits, also moves student loans to a different department so he is keeping those until some better system can be found.

[swissaustrian]

If you can edit out the "NIA" (a known scam) parts, this is a great documentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1HmO7XPoXI

[rpwi]

Many points to make about college tuition.

* Ron Paul of course doesn't believe in abolishing state colleges...just that their financing/control should be a matter for the states.
* Many go to college for the jobs...but colleges haven't been doing a good job of providing jobs. Skills learned in college could be more efficiently provided by private trade schools if they didn't have to compete with colleges. Also colleges are largely big networking hubs (alums hiring future alums who will hire future alums)...we don't need college for this.
* You can't talk about increases in college aid without talking about increases in tuition. History as shown that if you double the amount of student aid students get, colleges merely double their tuition.
* 99% of college courses and (highschool and other courses) are completely obsolete with online classes. You can install the Moodle software on a webserver (free LMS software and you get webhosting for this type of thing under 50 dollars a year) which completely negates the old brick and mortar style of teaching and is LIGHT YEARS more efficient (and why teachers will never use it).
* Occupational licensing is the crux of the problem and most libertarians oppose this. For example, the government pretty much says it is illegal to practice medicine without a medical degree, and medical degrees require bachelor degrees to get into Med school. Private schools would teach students faster, cheaper, make them more specialized and the skill set would be far more practical.
* Most courses taught at college have very little benefit to the kids. What's the point of a multi-million dollar chemistry lab if most kids absolutely will never use this 'skill'? There is so much waste on campus and it is so expensive this is a matter that the federal and ultimately the state governments need to keep their hands out of this.

[thoughtomator]

"Obama is promising you more debt. Don't you have enough already?"

Then launch into the gory details of how student loans can't be discharged, putting students in the same class as frauds and felons in the eyes of the law.

[KCIndy]

Obama is making promises to get them to vote for him....

Fact is Obama is making irresponsible promises which, looking at his record, he probably wont keep anyway.



This is the argument I would use.

As a politician, Obama has a poor track record of keeping campaign promises. Remember '07-08? All those promises to end the wars? Close down Guantanamo Bay's detention facilities? Make America a more respected nation? I'm guessing a little research would turn up plenty of campaign promises that turned out to be nothing but hot air.

[ItsTime]

People being bribed with their own money, so sad. "I would pay more in taxes if I got x,y,z" what cattle.

[Orwell]

There are two major points to consider, imo, and the rest are offshoots of these:

1. It is not free, or reduced; someone else is paying in so that you can get your education. Once you start working, you're going to be paying for others' education, probably at an increased rate. It's like taking out a payday loan.

2. If you give everyone a college education, then you will need a Master's to compete. You will need more schooling, and more money, in order to consider yourself "educated" enough to go for certain jobs. Of those jobs that already require additional schooling, you may now have an increased residency period, or apprenticeship requirement, or other such thing. How much money does that save you? How much time? So many people having a degree devalues the degree itself.

EXACTLY

Coming from someone with a Masters...we need to stop encouraging that everyone must go to college. It's forcing young people to spend a minimum of six years of their life going to school and collecting debt. The young really need a Masters or above these days to get a chance and then must do at least a year of interning to even make a living wage. As a result, the young start their careers later, make less money, get married much later, attain property much later, etc. etc. This whole notion that everyone needs to go to college is ridiculous.

[seapilot]

Obama is talking about college tuition now and gaining a lot of the young vote here where I live. How can I combat this? I need a fast simple way to educate them without boring them. None of them seem to want to do any research but if I can grab their attention they just might.

Every thing comes down to money for people. Tell them you will loan them 100.00 today so they can buy some text books, but you want 200 back by the end of the semester. Tell them it should not be a problem coming up with the money to pay you back later they can sell their books. It should then be obvious to them that they can not pay back on selling the books alone and will still owe money to you.

Obama works for the banks (look at who contributes to his campaign). The banks needs debt slaves and students are an easy target and vulnerable because of their apathy how the loans really work.

[unknown]

Simple, show excerpts from Ron Paul and show that Obama never mentioned this prior to Ron Paul speaking about it.

When you listen to Obama speak on this issue, he has lifted lines from Ron Paul almost verbatim.

The cost of education, the student loan debt, the interest on the student loans, everything has been lifted from Ron Paul.

[tttppp]

Obama is talking about college tuition now and gaining a lot of the young vote here where I live. How can I combat this? I need a fast simple way to educate them without boring them. None of them seem to want to do any research but if I can grab their attention they just might.

I would ask them if they enjoy paying skyrocketed prices for their college tuition. The reason for this is the government involvement in education. If the government wasn't involved, colleges would be forced to compete...prices go down, results go up.

[alucard13mmfmj]

lol Obama machine going out to pander to the public again and people are eating it up like hotcake. What promises has he made back in 2008 that he actually followed through??

If people take the bait, then I dont know what to say for our country.

[TheNcredibleEgg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esl7DoFEjtQ&feature=related


This video helps a lot. From 1:40 - 3:10 they discuss education. First a clip of Ron Paul is played where he explains how gov't loans increase the costs of tuition - then the host (expecting the guest to trash Ron Paul) gets a shock. The guest agrees with Ron Paul. And she goes on to explain in detail how increasing student lending directly increases tuition costs. The host then weakly mumbles a joke - and doesn't comment on her agreeing with Ron Paul.

[alucard13mmfmj]

tuition has increased in california public universities... about 6-10% every year or so =(.

tuition cost is climbing and we have all these state taxes, yet theres no money in these universities. in my lab classes, students had to buy a lot of things.. things that shouldve been provided by the cost. like sharpie markers to label petri dishes o_-.

it pisses me off. new buildings are always constructed. these multi million dollar buildings that are built from donor money. yet theres no money for the students. 300 seat classes are full within 12hours of registration opening and 150 on wait list and another 50 trying to add-on on the first day of class. So if your registration date is not within the first 1-2 days of the start... then you are shoot out of luck. It is horrible if the class is only offered once a year and you need it to graduate. Only option is to grovel and email the professor to let you in.

[Godmode7]

Thanks for the input! One guy started posting on my wall saying Ron Paul is part of the one percent and part of the GOP. Thank god for a block button. Not gonna put up with that trash.