Inflation Tax By Itself Is A Horrible Idea

[rebelforacause]

WE CAN"T STRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS

I hear that the guy responsible for Nov 5th is for the inflation tax by itself and he does deserve enormous credit but isn't seeing this correctly.

Go ask anyone who has tried convincing the uninformed to listen to something they have never heard.

guess what?

They stop listening after 5 seconds as many are brainwashed

I should know as I have been guilty of NOT keeping it simple stupid

What will the guys that won't admit they are wrong about this do when proven wrong?

IT WILL BE TOO LATE AND ALL WE NEED IS ONE OTHER ISSUE next to it at least.

[max]

WE CAN"T STRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS

I hear that the guy responsible for Nov 5th is for the inflation tax by itself and he does deserve enormous credit but isn't seeing this correctly.

Go ask anyone who has tried convincing the uninformed to listen to something they have never heard.

guess what?

They stop listening after 5 seconds as many are brainwashed

I should know as I have been guilty of NOT keeping it simple stupid

What will the guys that won't admit they are wrong about this do when proven wrong?

IT WILL BE TOO LATE AND ALL WE NEED IS ONE OTHER ISSUE next to it at least.


I've been saying this for days...

Tea party is already being talked about in major media. If they talk about it in the context of a backlash against taxes and the war....there's no telling how many people it can bring in from left and right and center...

If Tea party gets spun into an anti monetray policy thing....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It will still be HUGE...but the proper marketing (KISS...Keep It Simple Salesperson).. could mean the difference between a 10 Million Dollar bomb among us diehards....or a 25 Million dollar bomb with anti-war and anti-high tax people (almost everyone) joining in the fun....

Why dont we just make it a protest against the expansion of M3 money supply..or bond market yield curves...Zzzzzzzz

It seems to me that egos are at work here and that the success of 11/5 has gotten to people's heads..

TONS of liberals will donate to an anti-war cause (and war and taxes go hand in hand)...we are basically not inviting them.

Keep the inflation stuff in there as a side link...but I fear the decision has already been made...

[Joey Wahoo]

We are trying to win the REPUBLICAN nomination. Opposition to the income tax SELLS with Republicans. Returning to the gold standard does not.

The frank and blunt truth is that I have been told by several people who otherwise agree with Dr. Paul, that his desire to abolish the Fed makes him a kook.

I know that he is spot on right about the fed, but the nation is so brainwashed that the idea of competing currencies circulating with federal reserve notes is just too unorthodox for the great majority of voters to accept--yet.

I strongly join the plea to PLEASE emphasize opposition to the income tax, not the fiat currency. At least at this stage of the campaign

[LBT]

I started a poll on the Grassroots forum basically in agreement with this.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=35622

I hate to seem antagonistic with Trevor Lyman who is a hero to us all for what he has done, nor to the many great members here, but I agree that this would be a big marketing bungle for many reasons. Perhaps the biggest is that you can't tell a coherent story connecting inflation tax, or even lower taxes for that matter to the historical Boston Tea Party event.

A good story will attract millions of more views on the internet, and many millions more on the TV and it is crucial to moulding the minds of all who hear about teaparty07.

People love the Boston Tea Party because it reminds them of the Revolution. We ought to be teaching them more about it, sharing history with them, and showing that we understand and respect history.

[LBT]

I've been saying this for days...

Tea party is already being talked about in major media. If they talk about it in the context of a backlash against taxes and the war....there's no telling how many people it can bring in from left and right and center...

If Tea party gets spun into an anti monetray policy thing....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It will still be HUGE...but the proper marketing (KISS...Keep It Simple Salesperson).. could mean the difference between a 10 Million Dollar bomb among us diehards....or a 25 Million dollar bomb with anti-war and anti-high tax people (almost everyone) joining in the fun....

Why dont we just make it a protest against the expansion of M3 money supply..or bond market yield curves...Zzzzzzzz

It seems to me that egos are at work here and that the success of 11/5 has gotten to people's heads..

TONS of liberals will donate to an anti-war cause (and war and taxes go hand in hand)...we are basically not inviting them.

Keep the inflation stuff in there as a side link...but I fear the decision has already been made...
I'd love to have an event to link to the anti-war cause, but I can't see a good connection between the Boston Tea Party and anti-war sentiment. If anything it agitated a war. A rare just war.

[NewEnd]

The taxes were used to fund the British Empire, jsut like our taxes are beign used to fund an empire


I actually think, the inflation tax alone could offput many more leftist supporters, who support Ron for his opposition to the wars, and loss of civil libeterties, and only go along with the economic policies. It should not be removed, but it also should not be declared as the cause de celebre

[max]

I'd love to have an event to link to the anti-war cause, but I can't see a good connection between the Boston Tea Party and anti-war sentiment. If anything it agitated a war. A rare just war.


We are overtaxed because we have to maintain an empire....thats the connection...

I like the slogan..

"No taxation for foreign occupation"..

Ties war and taxes in nicely and can motivate left-right-and center

[hawkeyenick]

Toss on the weakening dollar because of guys like Bernake, and the funding of the Iraq war.

[cero]

I have to agree the 5th of november guy did an awesome job on the 5th, but please, listen to what the rest of us are trying to tell you!

[lbadragan]

I couldn't agree more emphatically with the sentiment on this thread. If you insist on having "inflation tax" in there, add to it.

People identify with the heavy income tax. They identify with the idea of being overtaxed. They do NOT identify with inflation generally.

When you sell, it's infinitely easier to sell to someone who already recognizes the need for what you're selling instead of trying first to convince him he needs what you're selling.

Please reconsider.

[jrich4rpaul]

I just think we need a little more added. No long explanations of everything Paul stands for, but at least more than just opposition to the inflation tax. He has much more going for him than just that.

Mentioning his anti-war policy among other things would help attract more people. If people are seeing teaparty07 before knowing who Ron Paul is, theyre going to need something that draws them to learn more. Simply saying we're going against the inflation tax won't do it.

[rebelforacause]

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Actually, its the economy, not the war. CNN has been saying that all day.

Push the antiwar without the noninterventionist policy and other policies, and you turn off the "I don't agree with the war, but what else are we going to do?" crowd. And 50+ years of history and a foreign policy lesson are pretty hard to fit in a soundbite.


guys they have to change it so email him - although he doesn't get back to you
Is the owner of the site already too important now?

[ronpaulyourmom]

Just get off taxes all-together, its too limiting and not even all that relevent historically.

[Wayne Hammond]

I just don't understand why you guys don't get it? Leave the reference to the inflation tax as-is. THE INFLATION ISSUE is HUGE and will become ENORMOUS in months to come; larger than any other issue in this campaign. Just wait until next month around this time when the inflation numbers come out.

The decision has been made, and these stupid polls show that it's basically 50-50 on this, and Trevor has made a decision in order to break the gridlock here.

Putting up post after post after post protesting Trevor's decision is just plain stupid and it's getting annoying.

For goodness sake, Trevor's efforts helped to raise over $4 million in one day... the press is already hailing him as a fundraising genius... and he has made numerous changes to the web site based on our suggestions, but we can't seem to give him the benefit of the doubt here?

Whoever made the comment that "Is the owner of the site already too important now?" - you make me sick to my stomach. Both Trevor and Nathaniel have been TOTALLY selfless in all of this.

.

[max]

THE INFLATION ISSUE is HUGE and will become ENORMOUS in months to come; larger than any other issue in this campaign.

.

It's "huge" only among us in-the-know.....but go talk to 100 people in the street and ask them what they feel are biggest issues....i guarantee you dont get one who says 'The Consumer Price Index"

This is a marketing fiasco....MILLIONS of potential anti-war donors and we're bypassing them because egos want to "educate"..

RP will educate the masses AFTER he gets as much money as possible..

taxation and foreign occupation go hand in hand...and this should be the dual theme.....other stuff can be added as links...but not as the MAIN theme

[Alabama Supporter]

Decisions can be changed if there is an outcry. Im not a particular fan of creating new threads on the topic, but I agree the marketing message could be tweaked in favor of including more pressure points on the electorate.

[Wayne Hammond]

It's "huge" only among us in-the-know.....but go talk to 100 people in the street and ask them what they feel are biggest issues....i guarantee you dont get one who says 'The Consumer Price Index"

This is a marketing fiasco....MILLIONS of potential anti-war donors and we're bypassing them because egos want to "educate"..

Just wait. The "people on the street" will be complaining loudly about INFLATION shortly. People understand their POCKETBOOK. They understand that gas has gone up 30 cents a gallon, milk by 50 cents, bread by 40 cents...

It is not a "marketing fiasco" - it is marketing genius - it's tapping into the PRIMARY issue people will be concerned about in the very near future.

If you study history of Presidential election campaigns - in election cycles where the economy is headed down fast, people make the ECONOMY their number one issue. "It's the ECONOMY, stupid" (as one recent Presidential campaign put it - and they WON using that as their slogan)

.

[Alabama Supporter]

The inflation numbers are cooked Wayne. They will not show much difference next month.

[NewEnd]

The inflation numbers are cooked Wayne. They will not show much difference next month.

its true

and we need as broad of support as possible. Iraq war, and civil liberties are enoguh to get all the liberals on baord... you got the conservatives on board with the inflation tax, now add osmething to get the liberals on board, and viola.... huge day.

[rebelforacause]

wayne you are a moron
I was refering to nathan based on experience but you don't listen to facts
whoever said 50-50 is spinning this.

one issue on the first screen that people don't understand

I tested this tonight at the grocery store and it was confirmed

AND YOU?

[Wayne Hammond]

wayne you are a moron
I was refering to nathan based on experience but you don't listen to facts
whoever said 50-50 is spinning this.

one issue on the first screen that people don't understand

I tested this tonight at the grocery store and it was confirmed

AND YOU?

Oh, forgive me, I must be a moron as you say... I didn't understand that you gave it the "grocery store" test. :rolleyes:

I'm done arguing this. Trever made the decision and that's that.

Good night.

.

[NewEnd]

right now, the sword of shanarra is only single edged... it only slices away at the conservative hold on the republicrat party..... it needs to be double edged, to slice away at the liberal side of the democran party.

It needs somethign abotu search and siezure, or the expensive empire created out of money printed out of thin air.

[rebelforacause]

do you have any idea who is reading these posts?

Do you mr. naive?

Lets just say that they don't want you and the few others to talk about that issue

GET IT

didn't think so

those that read creature likely do.

now go back to school and never learn the things that matter ( wall street secrets,etc.)

[Goldwater Conservative]

"This December 16th American citizens will dump
millions of dollars into the Ron Paul presidential campaign to
protest the secret inflation tax that has robbed the middle class of its wealth and
the oppressive income tax that has funded a police state abroad and at home."

That's my edit anyway. Hits issues everyone can get behind, and ties the Bill of Rights Day in a bit.

[max]

right now, the sword of shanarra is only single edged... it only slices away at the conservative hold on the republicrat party..... it needs to be double edged, to slice away at the liberal side of the democran party.

It needs somethign abotu search and siezure, or the expensive empire created out of money printed out of thin air.

love the metaphor!

[jonathanwebb]

do you have any idea who is reading these posts?

Do you mr. naive?

Lets just say that they don't want you and the few others to talk about that issue

GET IT

didn't think so

those that read creature likely do.

now go back to school and never learn the things that matter ( wall street secrets,etc.)

Wow, you're pretty nasty, dude. My mother gave me some advice that I will pass on to you: Say No To Drugs. They don't mix too well with posting on forums. :D

Generally people who resort to name-calling (ie- calling people "moron" and "Mr. Naive") do so because they have run out of logical points to bring to the discussion.

[rebelforacause]

They had already made up their mind as you can see and the friendly way didn't exactly get the outcome needed did it.

did you read the creature?

Do leaders question bad decisions?

since you have the logic on your side

[Alabama Supporter]

rebelforacause, I do not agree with Wayne on the topic, but name calling is unnecessary.

[rebelforacause]

to all new people who come to the first screen.

"The decision has been made, and these stupid polls show that it's basically 50-50 on this, and Trevor has made a decision in order to break the gridlock here.

Putting up post after post after post protesting Trevor's decision is just plain stupid and it's getting annoying."

the decider wins

[jonathanwebb]

They had already made up their mind as you can see and the friendly way didn't exactly get the outcome needed did it.

So you just decided to be nasty and attack people and hope to win friends and influence people that way?

did you read the creature?

Yeah, Griffin's my man - not sure he applies to this argument though.

Do leaders question bad decisions?

Yes, but good leaders don't resort to nasty name-calling, nor argue endlessly, railing against those with whom they disagree, well after a consensus has been reached. We are supposed to be on the same team here, are we not?

since you have the logic on your side


Yes, me and Mr. Spock - we be buds.


My answers in bold. Thank you.

[rebelforacause]

my actions. The fact is that a consensus didn't include the majority and this thread is partial evidence of it.

Mark my words

Many will regret that it only mentioned inflation tax

The guys who where wrong will never show up to admit it after it's too late.

[rebelforacause]

I will let this speak for itself

LBT
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 131



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poll Result so far for prefered Boston Tea Party theme:

Freedom/Independence 59 = 77.63%

Taxes / Inflation Tax 17 = 22.37%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRAqG2qWlUQ
www.liberty-legends.com

[max]

Mark my words

Many will regret that it only mentioned inflation tax

The guys who where wrong will never show up to admit it after it's too late.

yep...

there are plenty of egos in this movement...ironic given the fact that our beloved eader is the most humble man i've ever seen..

but ya know...these stubborn egotists will never admit they are wrong because in spite of this colossal blunder...we will still raise over 10 million and generate massive media coverage.....They will claim a huge success...

but what they fail to realize is there could have been an additional 10-20 + million that we'll never get because we mismarketed this thing

[justintempler]

What people are missing here is the connection to the Boston Tea Party which was a protest about an unfair tax.

You also have to remember this is an online fundraising effort and online users are more educated and have a better understanding of what record oil prices and the weakest dollar in ages mean. Ron Paul also talks about the printing of money to pay for the war. The advantage of talking about this is it's Ron Paul's issue. It's relevant and bringing it to the foreground makes the other candidates talk about Ron Paul's issues. Making Romney, Giuliani, McCain defend their positions forces them to debate Ron Paul as an equal instead of just some fringe candidate.

I'm sure this won't be the last money bomb. War and freedom can be used next time.

P.S. You could tie in inflation tax = taxation without representation which has a tie in to the Constitution, another Ron Paul issue.

[Energy]

In light of the release of eLIB3RTY's Tea Party 07 video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZmIzEMUN8), which elegantly covers
1. Save the Economy (a part of which was about printing money out of thin air, extravagant foreign policy)
2. Bring the Soldiers Home
3. Protect our Liberty (habeas corpus, National ID card)
4. Save our Country (tone down executive power, with a call to be part of the Revolution)

Couple ideas to broaden the message at teaparty07.com:

1. Position eLIB3RTY's Tea Party 07 video near the top.

or

2. Write some text summarizing the key points of that video.

[kimochinews]

Trevor and Nathaniel,

Don't back down. I think the inflation tax is worthy of standing alone. Design by committee has never worked -- make sure you stay true to what you both want the site to say. :)

We're all counting on you!

Kimochi

[hawkeyenick]

Trevor and Nathaniel,

Don't back down. I think the inflation tax is worthy of standing alone. Design by committee has never worked -- make sure you stay true to what you both want the site to say. :)

We're all counting on you!

Kimochi

Exactly, no symphony was ever written by a team...it was always the idea(s) of one or two individuals being executed by many that made them great.

[SeanEdwards]

The inflation numbers are cooked Wayne. They will not show much difference next month.

Yeah, but everybody buys groceries and gas, and they see the inflation in those prices with their own eyes.

[sroll2237]

The inflation tax is vitally important, BUT having a couple more issues that are also fundamental to Ron Paul's message (e.g. liberties, the war) will only help to sign up more people and that is the whole point. I believe that it would be naive to leave just one rather abscure issue when so many more people could be reached by simply adding one or two more issues.

Also to clear up the confusion about the poll. I believe that most people DO want the inflation tax to be on the site, but they also want a couple more main stream issues on there as well. If there was an option like "Do you want to keep the inflation tax and also include the war or loss of liberties?" I believe that option would win hands down.

REMEMBER, the only point to this site is to raise as much money as possible and this goal will be better achieved if the base that this site appeals to is broadened by including one or two more issues.

[Energy]

The inflation tax is vitally important, BUT having a couple more issues that are also fundamental to Ron Paul's message (e.g. liberties, the war) will only help to sign up more people and that is the whole point. I believe that it would be naive to leave just one rather abscure issue when so many more people could be reached by simply adding one or two more issues.

Also to clear up the confusion about the poll. I believe that most people DO want the inflation tax to be on the site, but they also want a couple more main stream issues on there as well. If there was an option like "Do you want to keep the inflation tax and also include the war or loss of liberties?" I believe that option would win hands down.

REMEMBER, the only point to this site is to raise as much money as possible and this goal will be better achieved if the base that this site appeals to is broadened by including one or two more issues.


I admit the site can take cues from marketers and copywriters to craft its message for maximum, record-shattering effectiveness. IMO, currently, it's mostly appealing to RP supporters, and a TON of opportunity is just sitting there to hit the nerves of mainstream voters (by mixing in other issues/concerns). But whether or not these ideas get incorporated into teaparty07.com, we can't afford to wait and fret over it. We need to take act NOW as the clock ticks. So...

If you're not satisfied with the text at www.teaparty07.com, do this: When promoting it, presell it with the message you want to get across, get them pumped and excited, and then direct people to the site. Couple ideas:

1. Just send people to eLIB3RTY's Tea Party video first: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DKZmIzEMUN8

That video addresses mainstream points: save economy (mentions printing money out of thin air debasing the dollar), bring brave soldiers home, save liberties, temper executive power, save country. That video IS at teaparty07.com, but it's a couple pages down so people will see the lonely 'inflation tax' first.

2. Create a webpage that presells and speaks to a target audience or direct people to such a webpage. Example: http://www.KickApathy.com

[RonPaulGetsIt]

The inflation tax is vitally important, BUT having a couple more issues that are also fundamental to Ron Paul's message (e.g. liberties, the war) will only help to sign up more people and that is the whole point. I believe that it would be naive to leave just one rather abscure issue when so many more people could be reached by simply adding one or two more issues.

Also to clear up the confusion about the poll. I believe that most people DO want the inflation tax to be on the site, but they also want a couple more main stream issues on there as well. If there was an option like "Do you want to keep the inflation tax and also include the war or loss of liberties?" I believe that option would win hands down.

REMEMBER, the only point to this site is to raise as much money as possible and this goal will be better achieved if the base that this site appeals to is broadened by including one or two more issues.

the only site that matters is ronpaul2008.com - people are free to make a dump the war or dump the police state site if they so choose

[weatherbill]

speaking of inflation...........

Friday, November 09 2007 6:43 AM, EST

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House Passes $459 Billion Defense Measure: Spending Bill That Would Benefit State Industry Heads For Senate [The Hartford Courant, Conn.]

Knight Ridder/Tribune "Business News "

Nov. 9--The U.S. House of Representatives approved a $459 billion 2008 defense spending bill on Thursday that provides billions of dollars for aircraft, submarines and other military products made or in development by Connecticut companies.

Passage of the bill was a major victory for Groton's Electric Boat, in particular, as it included enough money $3.1 billion for Navy and submarine contractors to prepare for doubling annual production of Virginia Class attack subs as early as 2010. [See story Page B9.]

The bill, which still requires approval by the Senate and President Bush, also perpetuates a struggle between two giant Connecticut-based corporations, United Technologies and General Electric, over jet engines for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

For the second year in a row, Congress added money for an alternate engine that GE is developing with Rolls-Royce, but which the Defense Department doesn't want.

UTC's Pratt & Whitney unit the primary engine provider for the joint strike fighter has been trying to kill the other engine program and secure a monopoly.

The multi-version Joint Strike Fighter, also known as the F-35 Lightning II, is the military's latest supersonic fighter jet, intended for use by the Air Force, Navy, Marines and foreign allies.

The spending bill passed by a vote of 400-15. It represents an 9.5 percent increase over last year's version, according to Congressional figures. It does not include spending for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are appropriated separately.

The $3.1 billion in submarine funding, $588 million more than proposed by President Bush, will allow the Navy and its contractors to start acquiring major components of what would be the second sub of 2010 or 2011.

It is not likely to mean new hiring at EB, but will help "stabilize" employment there, company President John Casey said in a conference call after Thursday's vote.

Pratt & Whitney downplayed the significance of renewed support for the rival Joint Strike Fighter engine, saying it would have no near-term consequences for Pratt. The East Hartford company remains the fighter program's lead engine provider and is years ahead of the GE-Rolls team.

Pratt has already delivered 11 ground-test and four flight-test engines for the Joint Strike Fighter, which is expected to cost U.S. taxpayers about $277 billion for 2,443 aircraft over more than 20 years.

Bill Gostic, Pratt's vice president for Joint Strike Fighter programs, said the company remains on schedule to deliver the first production engines in early 2009, three years ahead of GE. The first production aircraft is due later in 2009.

GE spokesman Rick Kennedy said the bill approved Thursday would not only keep the second engine program alive, but on schedule, too. Although there are no guarantees of further funding, GE believes Congress will have invested too much in its engine to justify eliminating it.

"The closer you get to the flight test program, why would you forfeit all that investment?" Kennedy said.

The bill includes a lot of money for aircraft powered by Pratt engines, including more than $10 billion for the F-22A Raptor, the Joint Strike Fighter and the C-17 Globemaster. It also provides more than $2 billion for procurement of 52 Black Hawk helicopters made by Sikorsky Aircraft of Stratford, also a UTC subsidiary, and 45 Black Hawk variants for the Navy.

The bill also provides funding that benefits many smaller Connecticut companies and research institutions. According to members of the state's Congressional delegation, funding included:

--$105.8 million to Colt Defense of West Hartford for M-4 carbine rifles.

--$3.2 million to Z-Medica of Fairfield for research and development of hemostatic agents.

--$3 million to Distributed Energy Systems of Wallingford for research and development of a regenerative fuel cell system.

--$2.4 million to VaxInnate of New Haven for research and development of a synthetic malaria vaccine.

--$1.6 million for the University of Connecticut to research sensors that track soldiers' health.

--$1 million to Pioneer Aerospace of South Windsor for research and development of a new fighter aircraft ejection seat.

Contact Eric Gershon at .

To see more of The Hartford Courant, or to subscribe to the newspaper, go to http://www.courant.com/.

[rebelforacause]

pointing the Ron paul's main page works best. Their are so many issues that those who aren't familiar with him would identify with.

READ the Hope for America slim jim and you will see 5-6 of them

http://www.ronpaul2008store.com/servlet/Categories?category=Slim+Jims