Best use of time: Spamming Polls & Sign Bombs vs. Phone from Home, Canvassing, Delegates

[mmadness]

Hi all,

Just wanted to note that as RP supporters, we are passionate.

However, what I've noticed is that what's similar between the 2008 campaign (that we didn't do so well) vs. this campaign, is that we have more supporters this time around, but we may not be making the best decisions with regards to where we put that passion.

The question I want to ask is:

Is taking the time to spam online polls (which we did lots in 2008), or to go out somewhere to sign bomb (which we also did lots in 2008), going to get Dr. Paul more votes and/or more delegates vs. Phone from home, canvassing, or delegate training?

Spamming online polls I think is the worst use of time, because they don't actually translate to real votes. That and sign bombing does not actually allow you to interact with a new supporter. It's one-way.

If the goal is to get Dr. Paul elected, should we not be spending our time training ourselves and others as delegates? Because only delegates end up determining who gets to be the nominee?

Also, should we not be interacting with potential new supporters in a more effective two-way fashion, such as Phone from home and canvassing?

As well as helping the official campaign with their information gathering, direct mail and get-out-the-vote efforts through Phone from home?

What do you think? Please chime in.

[millercards]

I understand all of this, but you can't really dog anyone for trying.

For someone to be passionate, they need to enjoy what they're passionate about.

If people enjoy sign-bombing - (it is some free media) - then let them have it.

We can continue convincing everyone to phone from home and to become a delegate.

I've been PFHing and I'm working towards being a delegate, but I also would like to participate in a sign-bomb soon to have a good time for an hour or two with other supporters.

Then I'll get back to the hard work after.

Stay positive, you don't want anyone getting burned out because they don't enjoy it.

[mmadness]

That's a good point - to enjoy what you're passionate about. However, I think there's also a balance.

What if the activities that people are passionate about are not actually translating into actual votes/support for the good Doc?

Could it be possible to take some of their time and put it towards other activities (that may not be as comfortable), but actually help? They could still do poll spamming/sign bombing/blimps/etc., but scale it down a bit?

[sailingaway]

People are going to do what they want to do, not what you tell them to do. And people in current election/caucus states such as Florida, are, imho, doing us all proud.

We all know phone from home is the biggest thing the campaign wants, but people need to have fun while they are doing this too. PARTICULARLY since it is a marathon, not a sprint.

[mmadness]

Stealing some ideas from the Obama handbook (which was a really successful campaign)...

They had some cool ideas such as:
- personalized fundraising webpages, where you could set up your own xxxxx.obama.com website, with your own fundraising goal, and be able to share it on Facebook, etc.
- an online calendar which allowed you to see local events based on your city/zip code
- same online calendar allowed you to book events as well, such as debate viewing parties, canvassing get-togethers, sign-making get-togethers, and what I liked best of all, Intro to the candidate meetings where people could bring new people so that there would be a presentation or group sharing about why your candidate was the best.

Now I'm not sure the infrastructure is set up with ronpaul2012.com that we could even do this. I don't think there's enough time.

However, I think we can step it up in having more local meetings through word-of-mouth, adding your meeting onto ronpaul.meetup.com and ronpaulcountry.com

I really think that having more house meetings for Ron Paul would make a difference. It would be easy to setup, just invite a few friends/family over to your place for an hour or two. Have it in the living room, and then show For Liberty or some YouTube videos, go over some positions, answer questions, etc. Because they will trust you over MSM. You are the most effective messenger.

[mmadness]

People are going to do what they want to do, not what you tell them to do.

Yeah, they'll do what they want to do. The question is though, do they want to help Dr. Paul win with the most effective use of time? They may not know that what they're doing is necessarily the best use of time. So I think a lot of the '07/'08 vets need to step up and educate.

[sailingaway]

I agree that the house meetings are a great idea. We haven't been discussing those since before the campaign really started. But I think a thread brainstorming great ideas like that would get a lot more input and enthusiasm than a thread dissing people for sign waves. Just my 2cents.

[steph3n]

Yeah, they'll do what they want to do. The question is though, do they want to help Dr. Paul win with the most effective use of time? They may not know that what they're doing is necessarily the best use of time. So I think a lot of the '07/'08 vets need to step up and educate.

no it won't help get Dr Paul elected, but that doesn't matter to them, only doing what they want matters, so that is what is important, to them.
It is just like the people that want to attach their message to Dr Paul (truth movement, nationalism, and so much more), it is more about their message than getting Ron Paul elected. When you are working with a bunch of anarchist and extreme libertarians, they simply won't listen and only what what they want, they think they are helping when they are really only serving their own interests and hurting getting Dr Paul elected.

So be it, it won't change until there is a central campaign that forces these people that won't do anything but they want to cease, it will result in pissing off a good portion of this forum, but it will result in having the best president and possibly congress in history and they will be proven wrong in their lack of willingness to give up their message for the short term for a long term benefit.

BTW, I am an anarchist and I see merits of both sides, sometimes the political system as it is is just too corrupt, and we are basically to that point.

[mmadness]

This thread wasn't meant to diss people for doing sign bombs. So if anyone is offended, then I apologize.

I see the whole point of Grassroots Central is to get Dr. Paul elected. I think it's great that we're having this discussion about what is productive/what is less. As time is really of the essence here.

Dr. Paul is 76. We have to make our chances count. Another four years and who knows where this country is? We need to have sense of urgency.

Or at least, I do. So this thread is for those people with a sense of urgency as well.

I think we've all spent time in our past in not the most productive way until we learned of alternatives. I'm certainly guilty of that.

So I'm looking forward to hearing from everyone - what do you think is best and what other ideas we can do time-wise that would give us the most bang for the buck?

[neverseen]

Well, with out talking RP stuff... best use of my time is to use it for work. The more jobs I have and hours i work, the more money i have. But then... how long can you go before you burn out? How long until you are bored with what you are doing? How do you stay entertained?

You can't call or canvass late at night, so why not blast some polls. So what if you spend 2 hours once a week sign waving. So what if you spend 4 hours a week making signs. It's fun. Sometimes you have to break up the tough hard work of calls and canvassing with some fun stuff. If you work a full time job and call and canvass in all your spare time, your life will suffer. You can interject some fun into your life while supporting paul by doing the signs and polls. It's fun. People need fun. Think of the next time you are having fun. Are you calling? or having a beer with buddies? Is that beer with buddies a better use of time at a bar or while making signs? Have FUN!

[mmadness]

Hmm that's a good point - the having fun vs. other RP activities being "work".

I think the key thing with Phone from home, canvassing and doing home meetings is that they're not as comfortable as the signs or the poll spamming. So comfortable = fun is my thinking. But comfortable does not necessarily mean best use of time or effective.

Perhaps there could be some way to make Phone from home more fun. Perhaps we could have some sort of game where the more people you called, then there would be a tally/prize or something. And everytime you got a negative response, there would be another tally/prize. Create a thread for a "Phone from home game".

I know some people were doing group Pfh events - I think those could be fun if we had some sort of game involved with those.

Same could be done for canvassing.

And if we can't call/canvas at night, we can still do evening home meetings.

Maybe we could still have fun and be more effective as well?

Just some thoughts. :)

[eleganz]

Best solution is to use your free time to do everything you can, if you're on the forum and posting RP stuff to the same supporters all day, you're not really doing much...

If you're out there talking to people, precinct walking, etc...you're making a huge difference.


I think the best thing you can do is to start organizing volunteers and a well connected/communicated support base, locally which helps a lot especially when the campaign goes to your state there will already be a willing army to be led into battle (so to speak).

[sailingaway]

Best solution is to use your free time to do everything you can, if you're on the forum and posting RP stuff to the same supporters all day, you're not really doing much...

If you're out there talking to people, precinct walking, etc...you're making a huge difference.


I think the best thing you can do is to start organizing volunteers and a well connected/communicated support base, locally which helps a lot especially when the campaign goes to your state there will already be a willing army to be led into battle (so to speak).

20,000 non-members are coming here every day, lately, it has been up to 30,000, and the superbrochures sent people here to get involved. So what is posted here is outreach, it simply isn't enough. We need to pick up the people who aren't looking for us.... YET.

[mmadness]

Not sure that the "Super" Brochures are bringing people here - anyone here join RPF because a brochure was mailed to you?

Anyway, we need to up our support and to focus if we want to win this thing.

[Barrex]

So I'm looking forward to hearing from everyone - what do you think is best and what other ideas we can do time-wise that would give us the most bang for the buck?
People donate once in a month and that takes 1-2 minutes of their time.
Phone from home:Some people dont like,dont have resources, dont speak English good enough, are not comfortable calling strangers, you cant use it 24 hours a day and thousand other reasons.....
Canvassing:Some people dont like,dont have resources, are not comfortable visiting strangers and thousand other reasons ...
I personally dont live in U.S.A. and on-line help is pretty much all I can do. Fact is that really really tiny percentage of people are really involved in campaign. Most of them just talk and discuss news about campaign.

It is ok to tell people that donating and phone from home are priority but it is absolutely wrong to tell them everything else it waste of time and should not be done. It is not and we should do everything that we can.

bang for the buck?:
This one actually saves money:
Save promotional material for other states. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346067-SAVE-AND-SEND-MATERIAL!!!). This project eventualy started but cant find thread or guy that brought it to life.


REAL Grassroot action database. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?353688-REAL-Grassroot-action-database) I hoped that moderators would make something like this to make it easier for people to get involved. This is my thread and I update it from time to time (just for me because it is probably on 100+ page of forum and not visible at all)
Another guy made something similar and is not luckily sticky (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?357197-NV-ME-CO-MN-MO-MI-to-CARPETRONBOMB-TV-WALLS-with-quot-likes-quot-comments...-until-Feb.-29) You dont like it.
I tried to get something started and get involved with this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?336771-MSM-blackout-COUNTERATACK-%28contingency-plan%29-aka-quot-stick-it-to-them-quot-aka-quot-bitter-pill-quot-...)...List was made for SC andFlorida but there was no organisation and interest and it failed...

I really liked this one:
Display-of-USA-national-debt. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?340954-Display-of-USA-national-debt).. but it cought no intention.

[mmadness]

Re-posting this from another thread.


People donate once in a month and that takes 1-2 minutes of their time.
Phone from home:Some people dont like,dont have resources, dont speak English good enough, are not comfortable calling strangers, you cant use it 24 hours a day and thousand other reasons.....
Canvassing:Some people dont like,dont have resources, are not comfortable visiting strangers and thousand other reasons ...


OK, if they don't like it or are not comfortable, they they should change or learn. Dr. Paul won't get elected unless we get new support. We don't have time to play around here. Thousands of reasons are thousands of excuses. There is the future of this country at stake here. Wasting even 1-2 minutes clicking "Like" on a Facebook wall is wasteful when that could be one new RP supporter reached by phone. Phone from home is easy. Who said it had to be scary or hard?

Becoming a delegate and preparing for the process can be easy as well. Canvassing can be easy. And of course donations are a given.

Yes, it may be hard to do these things. It may require stepping outside the comfort zone. The question is this - is Dr. Paul worth the effort for all of us to step up and outside of our own comfort zones? I say the answer is yes, it's worth it.


I personally dont live in U.S.A. and on-line help is pretty much all I can do.

OK, I'm speaking to mainly people in the US. Fair point if you are not in the US, but the majority of people in RPF are US based.


Fact is that really really tiny percentage of people are really involved in campaign. Most of them just talk and discuss news about campaign.

And this is exactly why we need to change that! And getting people involved by having them spam polls is not real involvement.


It is ok to tell people that donating and phone from home are priority but it is absolutely wrong to tell them everything else it waste of time and should not be done. It is not and we should do everything that we can.

Well, that's why we have freedom of speech, we can say what we want. I think it's a waste of time to spam polls or Facebook Like-bombs. And I stand by that.



bang for the buck?:
This one actually saves money:
Save promotional material for other states. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346067-SAVE-AND-SEND-MATERIAL!!!). This project eventualy started but cant find thread or guy that brought it to life.

Well, I was specifically criticizing poll-spamming/Facebook likes. This particular thread could save some money. But for poll-spamming/other unproductive activities, do you actually think that they will bring in either more voters, more delegates and more money for Dr. Paul vs. Phone from home, canvassing, being a delegate, or donating? If so then we'll have to agree to disagree.



REAL Grassroot action database. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?353688-REAL-Grassroot-action-database) I hoped that moderators would make something like this to make it easier for people to get involved. This is my thread and I update it from time to time (just for me because it is probably on 100+ page of forum and not visible at all)
Another guy made something similar and is not luckily sticky (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?357197-NV-ME-CO-MN-MO-MI-to-CARPETRONBOMB-TV-WALLS-with-quot-likes-quot-comments...-until-Feb.-29) You dont like it.
I tried to get something started and get involved with this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?336771-MSM-blackout-COUNTERATACK-%28contingency-plan%29-aka-quot-stick-it-to-them-quot-aka-quot-bitter-pill-quot-...)...List was made for SC andFlorida but there was no organisation and interest and it failed...

I really liked this one:
Display-of-USA-national-debt. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?340954-Display-of-USA-national-debt).. but it cought no intention.
Some people dont like, dont speak good enough English, are not comfortable calling strangers and thousand other reasons....


Thanks for bringing them up. However, I would encourage everyone to start using the "is this the most productive use of our time?", as I think some things are more productive than others.

[mmadness]

Things for non-US citizens to do:

(please send me info and I will update)

1. Phone from home.
Use Skype or whatever works. Learn English if you have to. Or enroll English-speakers to do Phone from home.

2. Donate to Chip-Ins. Right now we have:
A Chip-In to help Alaskan delegates get to the RNC:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?356650-ChipIn-for-Alaskan-Delegates

A Chip-In to help Ron Paul win in Virginia with comparison sheets:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?357126-HELP-WIN-VIRGINIA-REACH-HUNDREDS-OF-THOUSANDS-OF-VOTERS

3. Set up Facebook ads targeting specific people/specific states. This is far more effective than poll-spamming:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?348265-ATTN-ANYONE-w-a-FACEBOOK!-Free-25-50-Facebook-Advertising-Credit-FREE-Ron-Paul-ads!

4. Create your own TV ad and put it on national TV/reach millions using Google TV. Again far more effective:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?357049-ATTN-Create-your-OWN-GRASSROOTS-ADS-amp-run-on-NATIONAL-TV-CHEAP!-1200-1.2-mil-viewers!

5. Find US citizens living abroad and convince them to vote overseas if possible, and have them contact people in the US to convince them to vote Paul:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?357524-How-to-support-from-abroad-as-US-citizen

I'm sure there are more ideas but these are just some I found doing some basic digging. And far more effective than poll-spamming or Facebook like-bombing.

[Barrex]

Re-posting this from another thread....
Do you know about the delegate process and why it is important? Do you know who actually selects the nominee for the Republican party? It's not us....
......for poll-spamming/other unproductive activities, do you actually think that they will bring in either more voters, more delegates and more money for Dr. Paul vs. Phone from home, canvassing, being a delegate, or donating? If so then we'll have to agree to disagree.
"is this the most productive use of our time?", as I think some things are more productive than others.
Yes I know what are delegates and how that works. That is why they are third on my list(donate, Phone from home, delegates (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?353688-REAL-Grassroot-action-database)).

It is not right of you to say "poll-spamming/other unproductive(Waste of time and distraction) activities".Your evaluation arguments are terribly flawed. It is not Phone from home, canvassing, being a delegate, or donating vs "all other distractions". By same logic we could say donating vs Phone from home. Donating is more effective so we must only donate and not do anything else or only canvass and not do anything else.

Again I agree that there is top 3-4 projects(like you can see in my thread they are top 3 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?353688-REAL-Grassroot-action-database)):
1)Donating(to campaign, Pac,chip in): takes 1-2 minutes.
2)Delegates: They are less than 0.01% of voters.(important but 99.9% of people will not be delegate.
3)Phone from home:Requires hardware, eloquent English speaking person,quiet environment, some are not comfortable calling strangers... AND 95% (guessing percentage) OF PEOPLE WILL NOT DO IT!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So where that leaves about 94% of people who could/would/want/should contribute?

Campaigning is not donate vs other. Campaigning is donate + phone from home + canvass + free facebook ads + making Ron Paul videos viral + giving traffic to pro Ron Paul articles so that more people can see them + giving Ron Paul every possible exposure +....

No one should discourage people from getting involved in their own way. We should/must accept every help we can get and not dismiss it as "other unproductive activities" and"Waste of time and distraction".

P.s.
Please dont take this personal I just strongly disagree with your arguments and I think that you are wrong... just like you think I am wrong.(But I am not:D)

I noticed we started same argument on 2 threads. Lets keep it just here if it continues.

[orenbus]

Stealing some ideas from the Obama handbook (which was a really successful campaign)...

They had some cool ideas such as:
- personalized fundraising webpages, where you could set up your own xxxxx.obama.com website, with your own fundraising goal, and be able to share it on Facebook, etc.
- an online calendar which allowed you to see local events based on your city/zip code
- same online calendar allowed you to book events as well, such as debate viewing parties, canvassing get-togethers, sign-making get-togethers, and what I liked best of all, Intro to the candidate meetings where people could bring new people so that there would be a presentation or group sharing about why your candidate was the best.

Now I'm not sure the infrastructure is set up with ronpaul2012.com that we could even do this. I don't think there's enough time.

However, I think we can step it up in having more local meetings through word-of-mouth, adding your meeting onto ronpaul.meetup.com and ronpaulcountry.com

I really think that having more house meetings for Ron Paul would make a difference. It would be easy to setup, just invite a few friends/family over to your place for an hour or two. Have it in the living room, and then show For Liberty or some YouTube videos, go over some positions, answer questions, etc. Because they will trust you over MSM. You are the most effective messenger.

Hmm really good ideas, wish I had this list a couple of months ago to focus more on these when we were building RonPaulCountry. I didn't really keep up with what the Obama web team did back in 2008 and the lessons learned (what worked and what didn't), I'm copying this list in case the opportunity presents itself to integrate and build these solutions out going forward. In any case DAS I know has been working full time to stay connected with local grassroots across the country and helping them use RPC to network through targeted email alerts based on location (x miles from specific zipcode, city or state). Also people have been using the calendar on RPC as well as the ability to find local Ron Paul supporters by location and private message them through the site to build local networks, thanks for pointing that out. I would suggest anyone looking for a tool beyond what meetup has to offer check out RonPaulCountry.com (http://www.RonPaulCountry.com) :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsPz0Qjt6zM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ4PVMdxt9c

[mmadness]

It is not right of you to say "poll-spamming/other unproductive(Waste of time and distraction) activities".Your evaluation arguments are terribly flawed. It is not Phone from home, canvassing, being a delegate, or donating vs "all other distractions". By same logic we could say donating vs Phone from home. Donating is more effective so we must only donate and not do anything else or only canvass and not do anything else.

Sorry, but that's a strawman. I never said donating is more effective than Phone from home or vice versa. I said things like sign bombing, poll spamming and Facebook like-bombing are unproductive vs. other things that bring in voters/delegates such as Phone from home, donations and delegates. So please do not put words in my mouth.



2)Delegates: They are less than 0.01% of voters.(important but 99.9% of people will not be delegate.


Who says? That's awfully assumptive, wouldn't you say? Don't you think we should all be delegates to give Dr. Paul the best chance? It seems like you are saying that most of Dr. Paul's supporters would not be willing to be delegates for him. Don't you think the majority of Dr. Paul's supporters and understand the delegate strategy as the best chance he has of winning? Even the campaign talks about the delegate strategy. Are you saying the campaign is wrong?

Are you saying that we are not willing to step up and be counted as Dr. Paul's supporters at the conventions?

Well, I'm going to say, we'll prove you wrong.



3)Phone from home:Requires hardware, eloquent English speaking person,quiet environment, some are not comfortable calling strangers... AND 95% (guessing percentage) OF PEOPLE WILL NOT DO IT!


Again, another assumption. So you are now speaking for "95% of the people?" Phone from home can be done with Skype. Most people I know have a computer or a phone. How are you on these forums? :)

Here is the difference - you assume that most people are unwilling or incapable of doing Phone from home. Using the libertarian philosophy of Dr. Paul, of seeing everyone as individuals, not groups, I assert that each person has capability, power and personal responsibility and can choose to take on Phone from home, and learn as well as overcome any fear or comfort. I assert that they will do so for Dr. Paul.

Lack of hardware or lack of skills is all just excuses. No more excuses - for those of us who are serious about having Dr. Paul as the nominee, we're willing to do what it takes.

You think some of us will not step up and do Phone from home, even if we are scared or not comfortable? Again, we will prove you wrong.



Campaigning is not donate vs other. Campaigning is donate + phone from home + canvass + free facebook ads + making Ron Paul videos viral + giving traffic to pro Ron Paul articles so that more people can see them + giving Ron Paul every possible exposure +....

No one should discourage people from getting involved in their own way. We should/must accept every help we can get and not dismiss it as "other unproductive activities" and"Waste of time and distraction".

P.s.
Please dont take this personal I just strongly disagree with your arguments and I think that you are wrong... just like you think I am wrong.(But I am not:D)

It's not about who has the stronger argument. It's about reality. We don't have the time. It's about focus, with limited resources and time, and getting the good Doctor Paul elected, THIS YEAR!

If we had all the time in the world, then sure, go spend 10 hours Facebook bombing. But unfortunately we do not. We are running out of time and we need to focus our resources to make sure that what we do counts - NOW. If someone only has 2 hours per day to dedicate to the cause, what is more likely to help Dr. Paul? Phoning from home, or playing a Ron Paul Facebook game? One is more fun, but less productive. Then 2012 passes and Ron is not the nominee because of lack of focus. Choices have consequences. Every individual makes a difference.

It's like, if the goal is to lose weight, and if what works is to eat healthy and exercise, then why are we not helping people focus and do that, instead of having them go onto Facebook weight-loss groups and them clicking "Like". Did they lose any weight? No, but they were doing something for weight-loss! :rolleyes:

Hey, if I'm wrong and you're right, and Dr. Paul still gets elected even with everyone doing what they want to do, and without focus, then great, I'll be happy to be "wrong". But I don't want to leave it to chance or good luck or take it easy. Because what if Dr. Paul doesn't get elected because we did what we wanted, instead of having focus and did what worked?

So are we in this to have fun? Or are we in it to win? I think that is the fundamental difference between my argument and yours is some things are productive, and some things are not. If our SHARED GOAL is to get Dr. Paul elected, then wouldn't you agree if you see me doing something unproductive towards that, that you would let me know? I would expect and appreciate that of you. Would you be willing to accept that from me?

I don't think sign bombs, poll spamming or Facebook like-bombing is productive, and I'm willing to let my voice be heard because I think it'll make a difference. I'm not the only one who thinks that we can be more productive, either. Here's another great thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?353557-A-challenge-to-the-grassroots-you-really-want-to-win-quit-fussing-amp-get-to-work!!

So let's focus. Together, we WILL get Dr. Paul the nomination and then the Presidency!

RON PAUL 2012!

[Barrex]

Sorry, but that's a strawman. I never said donating is more effective than Phone from home or vice versa. I said things like sign bombing, poll spamming and Facebook like-bombing are unproductive vs. other things that bring in voters/delegates such as Phone from home, donations and delegates. So please do not put words in my mouth.
Not what I said. Read again. Point was that I am against your: one activity vs other(or one group of activities against other). I am against of rhetoric "if one is better then do only one and leave rest". Do them all donation +phone+x+y+...


Who says? That's awfully assumptive, wouldn't you say? Don't you think we should all be delegates to give Dr. Paul the best chance? It seems like you are saying that most of Dr. Paul's supporters would not be willing to be delegates for him. Don't you think the majority of Dr. Paul's supporters and understand the delegate strategy as the best chance he has of winning? Even the campaign talks about the delegate strategy. Are you saying the campaign is wrong?Are you saying that we are not willing to step up and be counted as Dr. Paul's supporters at the conventions?Well, I'm going to say, we'll prove you wrong.
So many questions and you already suggest WRONG answer on them.
I wrote:(guessing percentage)...No I know that we all can not be delegates. It is mathematically impossible. There is way too many of us. There is limited number of delegates and there is far greater number of people who support Ron Paul. Yes there are supporters who are not willing to be delegates. There are supporters who cant become delegates: dont live in US, are under age, are in states that already had elections (Iowa,NH,Florida,SC) etc. I never said campaign is wrong.



Again, another assumption. So you are now speaking for "95% of the people?" Phone from home can be done with Skype. Most people I know have a computer or a phone. How are you on these forums? :)
Again I wrote:(guessing percentage).Ok what is your percentage then? and what would you do with those who cant become delegates, phone from home or canvass?



Here is the difference - you assume that most people are unwilling or incapable of doing Phone from home....Lack of hardware or lack of skills is all just excuses. No more excuses - for those of us who are serious about having Dr. Paul as the nominee, we're willing to do what it takes.You think some of us will not step up and do Phone from home, even if we are scared or not comfortable? Again, we will prove you wrong.
I dont have to assume anything nor people need to use excuses. Reality is (as you admit it) that not enough people are involved.... and those who are not invilved are not offering any excuses. Why would they?(rhetorical question)


..."playing a Ron Paul Facebook game"...
It's like, if the goal is to lose weight, and if what works is to eat healthy and exercise, then why are we not helping people focus and do that, instead of having them go onto Facebook weight-loss groups and them clicking "Like". Did they lose any weight? No, but they were doing something for weight-loss![ :rolleyes:
Sorry but this is argument by dismissal, straw man and bad analogy. And this comment of yours:


Wasting even 1-2 minutes clicking "Like" on a Facebook wall is wasteful when that could be one new RP supporter reached by phone...
makes me think that you dont understand how it works. No one says:" play facebook games!". Posting youtube video or a comment on MSM facebook page is not "playing". It is extremely effective advertising. You speak about"bang for the buck"? 1 video posted there is seen by tens of thousands of people:
32,200 Las Vegas ABC
19,600 Las Vegas CBS
12,500 Reno ABC
10,900 Las Vegas FOX
Second thing:
Pro Ron Paul youtube videos are shared, liked, and viewed so that they gain popularity. With popularity they are then seen by more people.

Let me try bold and large letters:
So by simply investing 1-2 minutes to post comment or a video you reach tens of thousands of people. TELL ME HOW CAN YOU REACH MORE PEOPLE FASTER CHEAPER AND EASIER?HOW MUCH MONEY YOU WOULD HAVE TO SPEND TO REACH THAT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE???HOW IS THAT NOT PRODUCTIVE AND EFFECTIVE?



I think that is the fundamental difference between my argument and yours is some things are productive, and some things are not. I'm not the only one who thinks that we can be more productive, either.
NO.Fundamental difference is that you arbitrarily decided what is productive and what is not and then started actively discouraging people from getting involved in those activities labeling them as "waste of time, playing on facebook,"

I agree too that we need to get organized and productive and I mentioned:"Dont work hard work smart (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?354494-Do-you-need-me)"

Fundamental difference is that you want all people to donate and phone from home and got attitude "rest of actions to be shut down" (waste of time, playing....). This is never going to happen.It is not realistic. With this attitude you are excluding people from taking part in grassroots effort and making campaign less productive.

You actually end up decreasing productivity.

My point of view:
Say that Donating and phone from home is most effective way but dont dismiss or be condescending to other grassroots actions.Encourage them.Include them. This way you get more people involved and with more people involved your get higher productivity.


We all got same goal but we have different vision how to make it happen.Freedom is contagious.(dont press) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a84L1hVVEls)

[mmadness]

Barrex, you're nitpicking. I never said I was against commenting on videos. Again there you go putting words in my mouth. Also quoting someone and then changing the actual quoted material is considered disingenuous and rude.

But here's the central theme that you don't address - Do you want to win? Or do you want to have fun?

Because I want to WIN, and I'm willing to listen to the people who have experience winning elections. They say that Phoning from home, donating and encouraging donations, and amassing delegates wins elections. I'm a hardcore Ron Paul supporter - and I understand that everyone is not hardcore. Fine, then they can do these fun Facebook activities. But for the hardcore supporter, who should they listen to? People who have experience winning elections? Or you or me?

[Barrex]

mmadness
HEY! Not cool. I quoted your sentences that you wrote! I did not changed your sentences! (When you quote something you dont quote entire book. I quoted your sentences without changing them! They were exact quotes and not taken out of context. You used enlarged font and made it impractical for me to quot your entire post and post my answer would take entire page. Again those were your exact sentences and not taken out of context).Not cool.

To answer your questions (Do you want to win? Or do you want to have fun?)Like I allready wrote:


My point of view:
Say that Donating and phone from home is most effective way but dont dismiss or be condescending to other grassroots actions.Encourage them.Include them. This way you get more people involved and with more people involved your get higher productivity.

We all got same goal but we have different vision how to make it happen.



I see that you are getting upset and this will be my last post on this topic.

[tbone717]

Inserting my two cents here.

What I see the debate being about is the best and most productive use of time. We know from historic data that phone banking and canvassing does produce votes on election day, what we do not know is if these newer methods (FB posts, YouTube videos, sign bombs, etc) actually produce any votes. Honestly, what needs to be done is exit polling conducted by the grassroots. Get the usual demographic info and ask people what made them decide to vote for their candidate of choice. For the Paul voters we want to know was it because of a TV ad, the debate, a phone call, or was it from some guy waving a sign. Find out what brings people to the polls, and focus on those methods.

I have my own business and have for 25 years. There are many methods that I can employ to find new customers: cold calling (either face to face or on the phone), mass emails, advertising, etc. I do the ones that work best after studying the results of different methods. It only makes sense that we do the same.

[mmadness]

Barrex, if you look at the second quote on your previous post you changed what I wrote. Looks like you added some words there.

Anyway, it doesn't look like you are debating my other points but fallback to labeling me as "upset".

Far from it. I'm having fun here. :D

I'm passionate and fanatical about Ron Paul.

I think to a non-hardcore supporter that comes off as I'm upset. Nope.

I just think we better get passionate, fanatical and focus about doing whatever it takes that works if we want to get him into office.

Encouraging people to do non-productive actions (when you know what is productive vs. non-productive) is just as bad as not doing anything in my opinion. This is what I've learned from experienced grassroots.

So I'm talking to the hardcore passionate supporters who understand the sense of urgency and will therefore prioritize and focus on what works. Some people have that sense of urgency, some don't. We all have 24 hours in a day - and once it's gone, we don't get it back. So we have to spend it wisely.

I'm going to post some videos which show how to campaign effectively for Ron Paul, and how easy it is. So no excuses for the RP supporters who are serious about getting Dr. Paul elected.

[mmadness]

How To Effectively Campaign for Ron Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0TCtu0bBtQ

Tabling Basics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA3kj94jWIY

[mmadness]

Canvassing is easy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5sTpvuNXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbV86N8DdqE

[cheapseats]

Best use of time: Spamming Polls & Sign Bombs vs. Phone from Home, Canvassing, Delegates


For better and worse, y'all often defy believability. But I am incredulous that HEY, STRANGERS! LOOK AT THIS TANGIBLE EFFORT & ENTHUSIASM! sign action is lumped with SKEWING RESULTS & ALIENATING OPINION MAKERS as a waste of time.