Sanctions Force India to Pay in Gold for Iran Oil, China May Follow 1/24/12

[nbruno322]

Very Very interesting development if true. Oil trading in dollars is the raison d'etre for it being the world's reserve currency and thus allowing the US to spend nearly unlimited amounts of money.... and this is a huge chip away at it if true.

http://rt.com/news/iran-india-gold-oil-543/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vD8Y1jLo58

[Tunink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJnL10vZ1Y

[swissaustrian]

RT misses one point:
Most of the Indian gold was bought from the IMF.
I bet you $10000 (;) ) that the Indians have never taken delivery. There is speculation that the IMF doesn't even store gold, but just has paper claims on gold (mainly) stored by the NY FED. This came up in a subcomitee hearing chaired by Dr Paul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeQJZq4I7GY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9zkx1QzWhE

If my speculation is true, India will have to take delivery of gold stored at the NY FED, because Iran will certainly NOT accept gold stored in New York.

[sailingaway]

You would think if our party didn't have its head it its ass they would be BEGGING Ron to take the reins....

[Dsylexic]

unfortunately,this is not true at all. debka doesnt cite any sources and the rest of the sites are just parroting what debka has speculated. the truth is the indian govt has gold amounting to < 10% of its reserve holding. india is going to pay in rupees and wind down iranian central banks's dollar holdings.the central bank of iran would prefer Yen as of now

[ohgodno]

This is the issue that could win Dr. Paul the election if he's able to easily explain the extreme complexities of what is happening here. Then show how his foreign policy would have prevented and bring resolution to this situation.

The reason being - the policies that all the other candidates - and Obama - have pushed have escalated, rather than abated (as they have implied) the tensions with Iran.

Obama has played by the Newt, Romney and Santorum playbook - sanctions on the central bank, pushing for an oil embargo, Navy stationed close to Iran, covert operations, etc… and all have failed.

[sailingaway]

unfortunately,this is not true at all. debka doesnt cite any sources and the rest of the sites are just parroting what debka has speculated. the truth is the indian govt has gold amounting to < 10% of its reserve holding. india is going to pay in rupees and wind down iranian central banks's dollar holdings.the central bank of iran would prefer Yen as of now

OK< thanks for that input.

[swissaustrian]

unfortunately,this is not true at all. debka doesnt cite any sources and the rest of the sites are just parroting what debka has speculated. the truth is the indian govt has gold amounting to < 10% of its reserve holding. india is going to pay in rupees and wind down iranian central banks's dollar holdings.the central bank of iran would prefer Yen as of now
Yep that makes more sense. As I said above, India's gold is probably stored at the NY FED, they would have to take delivery first to start the gold payments anyway.

[Cody1]

So were they saying that all gold certificates will be redeemed with US dollars since they view gold as only a form of collateral and not money?

If so then that's hilarious!

I'm not an econ major but I could definitely tell there was some dancing around there with the answers.

[swissaustrian]

So were they saying that all gold certificates will be redeemed with US dollars since they view gold as only a form of collateral and not money?

If so then that's hilarious!

I'm not an econ major but I could definitely tell there was some dancing around there with the answers.
This story has legs.
There are also rumors that large portions of the gold have been indefinitley leased out into the market (which equals a sale), leaving the vaults of the NY FED and Fort Knox forever. The bullion banks have sold this stuff and the American people are left with a redemption claim against the bullion banks.

[Cody1]

This story has legs.
There are also rumors that large portions of the gold have been indefinitley leased out into the market (which equals a sale), leaving the vaults of the NY FED and Fort Knox forever. The bullion banks have sold this stuff and the American people are left with a redemption claim against the bullion banks.


Why am I not surprised again?

[european]

Who said gold is not money? :D

[swissaustrian]

Why am I not surprised again?
That's just the entrance to the rabbit hole called "gold market"

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs8141_IEec

[everlasticity]

The commentary on this issue is fairly simple. China and India have agreed to pay for Iranian oil in gold. This helps RP's argument that sanctions do not work. Not only are sanctions an act of war, but they are being circumvented, and the the use of gold will hurt the dollar. Our reputation is at jeopardy, looks like we are losing this round on the economic warfare front.

https://rt.com/news/iran-india-gold-oil-543/

[nbruno322]

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/demise-petrodollar

Rumors are swirling that India and Iran are at the negotiating table right now, hammering out a deal to trade oil for gold. Why does that matter, you ask? Only because it strikes at the heart of both the value of the US dollar and today's high-tension standoff with Iran.

Tehran Pushes to Ditch the US Dollar
The official line from the United States and the European Union is that Tehran must be punished for continuing its efforts to develop a nuclear weapon. The punishment: sanctions on Iran's oil exports, which are meant to isolate Iran and depress the value of its currency to such a point that the country crumbles.

But that line doesn't make sense, and the sanctions will not achieve their goals. Iran is far from isolated and its friends – like India – will stand by the oil-producing nation until the US either backs down or acknowledges the real matter at hand. That matter is the American dollar and its role as the global reserve currency.

The short version of the story is that a 1970s deal cemented the US dollar as the only currency to buy and sell crude oil, and from that monopoly on the all-important oil trade the US dollar slowly but surely became the reserve currency for global trades in most commodities and goods. Massive demand for US dollars ensued, pushing the dollar's value up, up, and away. In addition, countries stored their excess US dollars savings in US Treasuries, giving the US government a vast pool of credit from which to draw.

We know where that situation led – to a US government suffocating in debt while its citizens face stubbornly high unemployment (due in part to the high value of the dollar); a failed real estate market; record personal-debt burdens; a bloated banking system; and a teetering economy. That is not the picture of a world superpower worthy of the privileges gained from having its currency back global trade. Other countries are starting to see that and are slowly but surely moving away from US dollars in their transactions, starting with oil.

If the US dollar loses its position as the global reserve currency, the consequences for America are dire. A major portion of the dollar's valuation stems from its lock on the oil industry – if that monopoly fades, so too will the value of the dollar. Such a major transition in global fiat currency relationships will bode well for some currencies and not so well for others, and the outcomes will be challenging to predict. But there is one outcome that we foresee with certainty: Gold will rise. Uncertainty around paper money always bodes well for gold, and these are uncertain days indeed.

The Petrodollar System

To explain this situation properly, we have to start in 1973. That's when President Nixon asked King Faisal of Saudi Arabia to accept only US dollars as payment for oil and to invest any excess profits in US Treasury bonds, notes, and bills. In exchange, Nixon pledged to protect Saudi Arabian oil fields from the Soviet Union and other interested nations, such as Iran and Iraq. It was the start of something great for the US, even if the outcome was as artificial as the US real-estate bubble and yet constitutes the foundation for the valuation of the US dollar.

By 1975 all of the members of OPEC agreed to sell their oil only in US dollars. Every oil-importing nation in the world started saving their surplus in US dollars so as to be able to buy oil; with such high demand for dollars the currency strengthened. On top of that, many oil-exporting nations like Saudi Arabia spent their US dollar surpluses on Treasury securities, providing a new, deep pool of lenders to support US government spending.

The "petrodollar" system was a brilliant political and economic move. It forced the world's oil money to flow through the US Federal Reserve, creating ever-growing international demand for both US dollars and US debt, while essentially letting the US pretty much own the world's oil for free, since oil's value is denominated in a currency that America controls and prints. The petrodollar system spread beyond oil: the majority of international trade is done in US dollars. That means that from Russia to China, Brazil to South Korea, every country aims to maximize the US-dollar surplus garnered from its export trade to buy oil.

The US has reaped many rewards. As oil usage increased in the 1980s, demand for the US dollar rose with it, lifting the US economy to new heights. But even without economic success at home the US dollar would have soared, because the petrodollar system created consistent international demand for US dollars, which in turn gained in value. A strong US dollar allowed Americans to buy imported goods at a massive discount – the petrodollar system essentially creating a subsidy for US consumers at the expense of the rest of the world. Here, finally, the US hit on a downside: The availability of cheap imports hit the US manufacturing industry hard, and the disappearance of manufacturing jobs remains one of the biggest challenges in resurrecting the US economy today.

There is another downside, a potential threat now lurking in the shadows. The value of the US dollar is determined in large part by the fact that oil is sold in US dollars. If that trade shifts to a different currency, countries around the world won't need all their US money. The resulting sell-off of US dollars would weaken the currency dramatically.

So here's an interesting thought experiment. Everybody says the US goes to war to protect its oil supplies, but doesn't it really go to war to ensure the continuation of the petrodollar system?

The Iraq war provides a good example. Until November 2000, no OPEC country had dared to violate the US dollar-pricing rule, and while the US dollar remained the strongest currency in the world there was also little reason to challenge the system. But in late 2000, France and a few other EU members convinced Saddam Hussein to defy the petrodollar process and sell Iraq's oil for food in euros, not dollars. In the time between then and the March 2003 American invasion of Iraq, several other nations hinted at their interest in non-US dollar oil trading, including Russia, Iran, Indonesia, and even Venezuela. In April 2002, Iranian OPEC representative Javad Yarjani was invited to Spain by the EU to deliver a detailed analysis of how OPEC might at some point sell its oil to the EU for euros, not dollars.

This movement, founded in Iraq, was starting to threaten the dominance of the US dollar as the global reserve currency and petro currency. In March 2003, the US invaded Iraq, ending the oil-for-food program and its euro payment program.

There are many other historic examples of the US stepping in to halt a movement away from the petrodollar system, often in covert ways. In February 2011 Dominique Strauss-Kahn, managing director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), called for a new world currency to challenge the dominance of the US dollar. Three months later a maid at the Sofitel New York Hotel alleged that Strauss-Kahn sexually assaulted her. Strauss-Kahn was forced out of his role at the IMF within weeks; he has since been cleared of any wrongdoing.

War and insidious interventions of this sort may be costly, but the costs of not protecting the petrodollar system would be far higher. If euros, yen, renminbi, rubles, or for that matter straight gold, were generally accepted for oil, the US dollar would quickly become irrelevant, rendering the currency almost worthless. As the rest of the world realizes that there are other options besides the US dollar for global transactions, the US is facing a very significant – and very messy – transition in the global oil machine.

The Iranian Dilemma

Iran may be isolated from the United States and Western Europe, but Tehran still has some pretty staunch allies. Iran and Venezuela are advancing $4 billion worth of joint projects, including a bank. India has pledged to continue buying Iranian oil because Tehran has been a great business partner for New Delhi, which struggles to make its payments. Greece opposed the EU sanctions because Iran was one of very few suppliers that had been letting the bankrupt Greeks buy oil on credit. South Korea and Japan are pleading for exemptions from the coming embargoes because they rely on Iranian oil. Economic ties between Russia and Iran are getting stronger every year.

Then there's China. Iran's energy resources are a matter of national security for China, as Iran already supplies no less than 15% of China's oil and natural gas. That makes Iran more important to China than Saudi Arabia is to the United States. Don't expect China to heed the US and EU sanctions much – China will find a way around the sanctions in order to protect two-way trade between the nations, which currently stands at $30 billion and is expected to hit $50 billion in 2015. In fact, China will probably gain from the US and EU sanctions on Iran, as it will be able to buy oil and gas from Iran at depressed prices.

So Iran will continue to have friends, and those friends will continue to buy its oil. More importantly, you can bet they won't be paying for that oil with US dollars. Rumors are swirling that India and Iran are at the negotiating table right now, hammering out a deal to trade oil for gold, supported by a few rupees and some yen. Iran is already dumping the dollar in its trade with Russia in favor of rials and rubles. India is already using the yuan with China; China and Russia have been trading in rubles and yuan for more than a year; Japan and China are moving towards transactions in yen and yuan.

And all those energy trades between Iran and China? That will be settled in gold, yuan, and rial. With the Europeans out of the mix, in short order none of Iran's 2.4 million barrels of oil a day will be traded in petrodollars.

With all this knowledge in hand, it starts to seem pretty reasonable that the real reason tensions are mounting in the Persian Gulf is because the United States is desperate to torpedo this movement away from petrodollars. The shift is being spearheaded by Iran and backed by India, China, and Russia. That is undoubtedly enough to make Washington anxious enough to seek out an excuse to topple the regime in Iran.

Speaking of that search for an excuse, this is interesting. A team of International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors just visited Iran. The IAEA is supervising all things nuclear in Iran, and it was an IAEA report in November warning that the country was progressing in its ability to make weapons that sparked this latest round of international condemnation against the supposedly near-nuclear state. But after their latest visit, the IAEA's inspectors reported no signs of bomb making. Oh, and if keeping the world safe from rogue states with nuclear capabilities were the sole motive, why have North Korea and Pakistan been given a pass?

There is another consideration to keep in mind, one that is very important when it comes to making some investment decisions based on this situation: Russia, India, and China – three members of the rising economic powerhouse group known as the BRICs (which also includes Brazil) – are allied with Iran and are major gold producers. If petrodollars go out of vogue and trading in other currencies gets too complicated, they will tap their gold storehouses to keep the crude flowing. Gold always has and always will be the fallback currency and, as mentioned before, when currency relationships start to change and valuations become hard to predict, trading in gold is a tried and true failsafe.

2012 might end up being most famous as the year in which the world defected from the US dollar as the global currency of choice. Imagine the rest of the world doing the math and, little by little, beginning to do business in their own currencies and investing ever less of their surpluses in US Treasuries. It constitutes nothing less than a slow but sure decimation of the dollar.

That may not be a bad thing for the United States. The country's gargantuan debts can never be repaid as long as the dollar maintains anything close to its current valuation. Given the state of the country, all that's really left supporting the value in the dollar is its global reserve currency status. If that goes and the dollar slides, maybe the US will be able to repay its debts and start fresh. That new start would come without the privileges and ingrained subsidies to which Americans are so accustomed, but it's amazing that the petrodollar system has lasted this long. It was only a matter of time before something would break it down.

Finally, the big question: How can one profit from this evolving situation? Playing with currencies is always very risky and, with the global game set to shift to significantly, it would require a lot of analysis and a fair bit of luck. The much more reliable way to play the game is through gold. Gold is the only currency backed by a physical commodity; and it is always where investors hide from a currency storm.

The basic conclusion is that a slow demise of the petrodollar system is bullish for gold and very bearish for the US dollar. As for any more specific suggestions on how to profit, check out our newsletters.

[eleganz]

This helps us tremendously but most Americans have no idea wtf this is all about.... :(

[Dsylexic]

indian govt has neither the gold nor the moral / military backbone to stand up to US intimidation.i say this as an indian. all these reports are speculative and wishful thinking by goldbugs.(no,i own gold and would love it go up).

[USCadam89]

very informative and good read...nbruno322

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

That was very eye opening read nbruno. Thanks.

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

This video explains the idea floating around that war with Iran is about saving the petrodollar, as was Iraq. Every Paulite should be aware of this.

The Petrodollar- The real reason for the wars in Iraq, Libia, and the drumbeat for war with Iran


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs8141_IEec

[Dsylexic]

This video explains the idea floating around that war with Iran is about saving the petrodollar, as was Iraq. Every Paulite should be aware of this.

The Petrodollar- The real reason for the wars in Iraq, Libia, and the drumbeat for war with Iran


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs8141_IEec
did this air on MSM? probably not.it it things like this that will be most missed if SOPA is enacted.while watching the video,every part of my brain was telling me,WHY DO I STILL PAY FOR MY CABLE ?

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

I was saying the same thing to myself Dyslexic, about why this just isn't on the MSM news. This seems like something everyone should know about.

Why hide how the petrodollar works and what is happening globally with oil trades that can cause the U.S. dollar to become next to worthless. Why does this need to be so secretive and covered up with excuses for taking over regimes to keep the petro dollar secure.

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

Here's more-

Incredible Fact or Theory?: The Petrodollar Scam


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpZ0Kc_Cx_g

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

Wow, the rabbit hole goes deeper. This is making so much sense.

THIS petro dollar crap is why we have been sold out to China.

Part 3 gets into why alternative energy has been kept surpressed for the same reason- to keep the petrodollar alive.


Peak Oil, Monetary Policy, & The Petrodollar Part 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cu2OceS0KU

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BguQ6cgmJJQ&feature=related

[evilfunnystuff]

http://lolfed.com/wp-content/uploads/bernanke-gold-tradition.jpg

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Okay, perhaps I missing something here. If so, could someone explain this? If the petrodollar were replaced by the petroeuro couldn't we simply print more US dollars and exchange them for euros. Thus accomplishing the same thing by purchasing oil at the expense of our national debt? Sure it would be better to have dollars as the currency of choice, but we would still be propping up similar results.

[eleganz]

Okay, perhaps I missing something here. If so, could someone explain this? If the petrodollar were replaced by the petroeuro couldn't we simply print more US dollars and exchange them for euros. Thus accomplishing the same thing by purchasing oil at the expense of our national debt? Sure it would be better to have dollars as the currency of choice, but we would still be propping up similar results.

dollar would spiral out of control and crash. But the whole deal about there not being any gold anyway is plausible and helps Ron's case even more, except this is far too complicated for the zombies to comprehend.

btw, Are you the one they call suai lao wai?

[Mini-Me]

Okay, perhaps I missing something here. If so, could someone explain this? If the petrodollar were replaced by the petroeuro couldn't we simply print more US dollars and exchange them for euros. Thus accomplishing the same thing by purchasing oil at the expense of our national debt? Sure it would be better to have dollars as the currency of choice, but we would still be propping up similar results.

Printing US dollars and exchanging dollars for Euros are both actions that devalue the US dollar compared to the Euro...so the more this is done, the less oil it will purchase. In addition, a move away from petrodollars could instigate a dollar-dumping move on China's (or anyone else's) part, sparking hyperinflation in the US. We don't export a whole lot anymore, so oil is the number one reason why international demand for the dollar is high in the first place.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

btw, Are you the one they call suai lao wai?

Not sure who you are referring to. Is he the Rap singer MC Hotdog?

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Printing US dollars and exchanging dollars for Euros are both actions that devalue the US dollar compared to the Euro...so the more this is done, the less oil it will purchase. In addition, a move away from petrodollars could instigate a dollar-dumping move on China's (or anyone else's) part, sparking hyperinflation in the US. We don't export a whole lot anymore, so oil is the number one reason why international demand for the dollar is high in the first place.

Thanks that's straight forward. Appreciate it.

[cmm2k5]

I've tried explaining this theory to some people and they just look at me crazy, but it just makes sense. The spending on wars, the debt incurred and the devaluation of the dollar.

Countries are seeing the light that they don't need to sell their own oil in dollars. If all opec companies simultaneously dumped the dollar and sold them in euro's or other currencies.

Our currency would almost fall flat on its face over night and hyper inflation would occur. We consume way more than we produce hence why we will be screwed in this situation.

We can't produce enough to trade our domestic goods for other currencies to sustain our dependency on oil. Its funny when you ask your common folk around town "Do you know why economic experts have said the occupation of Iraq was for oil" and most people just saying its to keep gas prices down or they've never heard that etc... Its just ridiculous that people focus on abortion, gay marriage, and religious issues yet they fail to see what their government is doing without telling the public.

Iran will conveniently about potential WMD's that don't exist and before you know it, were policing the world taking over the worlds oil reserves to protect our flawed consumptive society.

Yet no one seems to care any of this is going on. It's because your average american believes into all the bullshit propaganda that gets spread through the media. This is one of the reasons why I woke up and followed Ron Paul because he acknowledges all of this.

No other candidate will in fear of losing their precious lobbied handouts. Sorry I've gone on a jumpy type rant, but I think most of you know where I come from when you try to talk about something and people are completely ignorant or just call you a looney conspiracy nut job.

None of this to me is irrational or conspiracy, but it very plausible and based on economic facts. Its just never been confirmed that's whats going on because our government doesn't acknowledge it.

[Dsylexic]

it is not a conspiracy in the sense of evil people sitting in a secret location and hatching a plot.what the story represents is a watertight logical explanation for WHY maintaining the status quo is important to people who have power and money.it is rational ignorance to avoid talking about it.

[Mini-Me]

I've tried explaining this theory to some people and they just look at me crazy, but it just makes sense. The spending on wars, the debt incurred and the devaluation of the dollar.

Countries are seeing the light that they don't need to sell their own oil in dollars. If all opec companies simultaneously dumped the dollar and sold them in euro's or other currencies.

Our currency would almost fall flat on its face over night and hyper inflation would occur. We consume way more than we produce hence why we will be screwed in this situation.

We can't produce enough to trade our domestic goods for other currencies to sustain our dependency on oil. Its funny when you ask your common folk around town "Do you know why economic experts have said the occupation of Iraq was for oil" and most people just saying its to keep gas prices down or they've never heard that etc... Its just ridiculous that people focus on abortion, gay marriage, and religious issues yet they fail to see what their government is doing without telling the public.

Iran will conveniently about potential WMD's that don't exist and before you know it, were policing the world taking over the worlds oil reserves to protect our flawed consumptive society.

Yet no one seems to care any of this is going on. It's because your average american believes into all the bullshit propaganda that gets spread through the media. This is one of the reasons why I woke up and followed Ron Paul because he acknowledges all of this.

No other candidate will in fear of losing their precious lobbied handouts. Sorry I've gone on a jumpy type rant, but I think most of you know where I come from when you try to talk about something and people are completely ignorant or just call you a looney conspiracy nut job.

None of this to me is irrational or conspiracy, but it very plausible and based on economic facts. Its just never been confirmed that's whats going on because our government doesn't acknowledge it.

Great post. Even I haven't fully recognized the importance of this...
I always figured that in the event of a currency collapse, the supply chain will be disrupted for a couple weeks until people get their asses in gear and work out an alternate medium of exchange (gold, silver, bullets, cigarettes, toilet paper...whatever), but grocery stores would be refilled soon after. However, I routinely forget about our dependence on foreign oil: Our entire supply chain and distribution of goods is extremely nonlocal, so shipping goods in trucks is highly dependent on our ability to buy large amounts of fuel internationally. A dollar collapse would totally screw us here. Now that you and the others in this thread have connected the dots for me, I'm honestly much more scared right now of a collapse than I've been in the past...we're in trouble.


it is not a conspiracy in the sense of evil people sitting in a secret location and hatching a plot.what the story represents is a watertight logical explanation for WHY maintaining the status quo is important to people who have power and money.it is rational ignorance to avoid talking about it.
The irony is that people around the world would be perfectly happy to use dollars forever, if we didn't constantly devalue them and use our military and petrodollar hegemony to bully other countries around. (We'd have to export goods in order to continually buy oil without devaluing the dollar though.) Either the establishment goons are stupid, or they indeed have the ulterior motives many of us believe they have (i.e. one world government).

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Here I corrected that for you......


Either the establishment goons are stupid, or they indeed have the ulterior motives many of us believe they have (i.e. one world CURRENCY).

Enter the Amero.

[eleganz]

Not sure who you are referring to. Is he the Rap singer MC Hotdog?


no there is a white guy selling texas style hotdogs at rao he night market and he is a ron paul supporter. :D

[Constitutional Paulicy]

no there is a white guy selling texas style hotdogs at rao he night market and he is a ron paul supporter. :D

No, that's not me. I am an English teacher at Tzu-Chi University in Hualien. Ron Paul supporter's in Taiwan are everywhere. It's common knowledge amongst the expat community worldwide that the only candidate worthy of the presidency is Ron Paul. No one else will do.

[Barrex]

Old news.

Edit:
WOW I just read rest of the comments.
I am surprised that you guys in U.S.A. are so surprised that this is happening. In the rest of the world this is old news. Russia and China are already doing it in all of their bilateral trade. Japan now joined too. In EU there is for years plan to do that too.India and Iran are not exceptions. That explains a lot of my questions: why people and politicians in U.S:A dont do something about it.... Now I got the answer "you dont know".

Second edit:
Well Ron Paul knows it....

[everlasticity]

This essentially vindicates Ron Paul. We just lost this round of economic warfare to the Indians and Chinese. The only option for the US, if it is to remain Bull headed, is to threaten war against China and India. Otherwise, the US just needs to eat its words and withdraw sanctions. My father, a non supporter, said there needed to be a big event for people to turn to Ron Paul. This may be it. Lets hope the republicans are dynamic enough to change course in their thinking.

[Dsylexic]

This essentially vindicates Ron Paul. We just lost this round of economic warfare to the Indians and Chinese. The only option for the US, if it is to remain Bull headed, is to threaten war against China and India. Otherwise, the US just needs to eat its words and withdraw sanctions. My father, a non supporter, said there needed to be a big event for people to turn to Ron Paul. This may be it. Lets hope the republicans are dynamic enough to change course in their thinking.
i dont see it in such stark terms. an indo/china -us war is simply out of question even for the most seasoned entrenched neocons.the real impact of non petrodollar trade is going to be rather slow.the central banks of the other nations are still beholden to the US Fed.if there are only a few central banks,the US fed can easy influence them(that,btw,is the reason they absolutely abhor free banking of any kind -too many banks issuing currency is a nightmare for even the most omniscient tyrant).
india and china will just suck it up and abandaon iran if full blown war breaks out.the US will force saudi to sell the difference in oil imports lost ,to china /india.

[cmm2k5]

Barrex, I've been trying to keep up on this stuff, sadly, only since around 2009. But the fact the mainstream media in this country doesn't talk about it AT ALL or even mention it. I believe they don't want to "fear-monger" the public with it because the public would be very pissed off. They fear-monger terrorism and pushing a foreign agenda on false threats and claims to keep all of this from the american public (at least that's my theory on the whole situation, yeah its dabbling with conspiracy but its very plausible and rational) Knowing that american troops are dying to protect our economy I believe would upset a lot military families and service men and women as well. The public would have an outcry and would demand change. I've told a lot of people in this day of age, the military men and women aren't technically fighting to protect our freedoms but rather more of our ways of life we currently live in the grand scheme of things. But yes, its a huge shame most people in the states don't know of this, they are too concerned about who's going to win american idol or what the Kardashians are doing etc.

[Demigod]

The irony is that people around the world would be perfectly happy to use dollars forever, if we didn't constantly devalue them and use our military and petrodollar hegemony to bully other countries around. (We'd have to export goods in order to continually buy oil without devaluing the dollar though.) Either the establishment goons are stupid, or they indeed have the ulterior motives many of us believe they have (i.e. one world government).


No people around the world would not be perfectly happy to use the dollar cause I can talk about Europe,people here have known for this thing for decades.We know that this is the way the USA funds the war machine and rarely anyone saves money in dollars.

But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.

[Demigod]

Great post. Even I haven't fully recognized the importance of this...
I always figured that in the event of a currency collapse, the supply chain will be disrupted for a couple weeks until people get their asses in gear and work out an alternate medium of exchange (gold, silver, bullets, cigarettes, toilet paper...whatever), but grocery stores would be refilled soon after. However, I routinely forget about our dependence on foreign oil: Our entire supply chain and distribution of goods is extremely nonlocal, so shipping goods in trucks is highly dependent on our ability to buy large amounts of fuel internationally. A dollar collapse would totally screw us here. Now that you and the others in this thread have connected the dots for me, I'm honestly much more scared right now of a collapse than I've been in the past...we're in trouble.




The problem is the products in those stores are mostly foreign made.When the currency hyper inflates no one is going to want to sell anything to the USA.Now that problem usually trough history has sorted out in 1-3 years.But the USA has been kicking the can down the road for decades so you may prepare your self's for 1 trillion dollar bills

[cmm2k5]

No people around the world would not be perfectly happy to use the dollar cause I can talk about Europe,people here have known for this thing for decades.We know that this is the way the USA funds the war machine and rarely anyone saves money in dollars.

But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.

I've been keeping a close eye on the Euro on my windows 7 desktop. All i'm waiting for is the Euro to keep creeping up to match the dollar in currency exchange.

Dollar: 1.00
Euro: .767

Just think, about a year or so ago it was almost .570. Its slowly dropping...

[everlasticity]

i dont see it in such stark terms. an indo/china -us war is simply out of question even for the most seasoned entrenched neocons.

Sure, I don't think so either. But if we were able to get this information reported to the masses who tow the neocon line, then it would seriously conflict with what they perceive to be the US handle on the situation. Really, from what it sounds like to me, it was anticipated that China and India would find alternative ways to deal the Iranian embargo, ie. Yen and Rupi, and this would be acceptable to the US. It also seems to me that this goes lock step with Gingrich's acceptance of the gold standard. So I am guessing, that what is going on is a pretense to wean off US dollar as the reserve currency. Whether threatening to wage war against Iran is just a cover, and really there will be no war, I don't go that far. But as I understand it, the international community has been exploring alternatives to the US dollar for sometime.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.
Ya I was going to say the same thing. However, the US dollar being propped up with petrodollars, shows just how unstable it really is as well. Imagine if oil was exchanged in petroeuro. Talk about a major recovery of the euro.

[goliberty78]

Old news.

Edit:
WOW I just read rest of the comments.
I am surprised that you guys in U.S.A. are so surprised that this is happening. In the rest of the world this is old news. Russia and China are already doing it in all of their bilateral trade. Japan now joined too. In EU there is for years plan to do that too.India and Iran are not exceptions. That explains a lot of my questions: why people and politicians in U.S:A dont do something about it.... Now I got the answer "you dont know".

Second edit:
Well Ron Paul knows it....

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are. I'm curious if you'd be willing to share media sources you frequent. I'm always looking for an outsider's view

[Mini-Me]

No people around the world would not be perfectly happy to use the dollar cause I can talk about Europe,people here have known for this thing for decades.We know that this is the way the USA funds the war machine and rarely anyone saves money in dollars.
Of course. You're do realize you're listing the same reasons that I did why the rest of the world isn't happy using dollars though, right? ;)


But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.
I agree. Europe is pretty much a mirror image of the US in terms of unproductivity. They support their huge social welfare systems with central banking shenanigans and rely on just a few relatively productive countries (e.g. Germany) to keep them afloat, so they're also going to be in for a rude awakening...


The problem is the products in those stores are mostly foreign made.When the currency hyper inflates no one is going to want to sell anything to the USA.Now that problem usually trough history has sorted out in 1-3 years.But the USA has been kicking the can down the road for decades so you may prepare your self's for 1 trillion dollar bills

You're right about most of our products being foreign-made; this is the biggest impediment to actually engaging in legitimate trade for oil. We don't exactly have a lot to offer (although I do hear we produce a lot of capital goods here, so that's helpful...but I'm sure a lot of that is military-industrial complex stuff too). However, the US is self-sufficient in terms of food, which is the most important resource for at least keeping people alive in the meantime. That's the good news. The bad news is that we won't have any means to obtain fuel to transport this food across the country, which we need to do to survive, since we don't grow locally anymore for the most part.

[everlasticity]

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are.

I have been asking this question regarding RT.com (Russian TV, I think). Russians are not allowed to criticize their own government, not to the extent that we can. But they sure do a helluva good job criticizing us. I am not sure if things have changed in Russia recently, I know there have been a lot more dissidents. But under Putin, a few years ago, I understood this to be the case that there wasn't much criticism of government in the press.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are. I'm curious if you'd be willing to share media sources you frequent. I'm always looking for an outsider's view

I believe Barrex is from Croatia. There is a news outlet from Russia called RT. It reports alternative points of view when compared to US MSM. Here is a live feed of their broadcasts......... http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

They also have a Youtube channel....... http://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica

[kojirodensetsu]

I believe Barrex is from Croatia. There is a news outlet from Russia called RT. It reports alternative points of view when compared to US MSM. Here is a live feed of their broadcasts......... http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

They also have a Youtube channel....... http://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica
Does RT have a bias like MSNBC and Fox News? Or are they pretty legit? Heard about RT on a different forum. Curious about it.

[Demigod]

You're right about most of our products being foreign-made; this is the biggest impediment to actually engaging in legitimate trade for oil. We don't exactly have a lot to offer (although I do hear we produce a lot of capital goods here, so that's helpful...but I'm sure a lot of that is military-industrial complex stuff too). However, the US is self-sufficient in terms of food, which is the most important resource for at least keeping people alive in the meantime...our real problem is going to be finding fuel to transport this food across the country, since we don't grow locally anymore for the most part.

Yes food but most of your food is made by corporations now.If the dollar just inflates those corporations would collapse.Also most of the agriculture in the USA is heavily depended on oil due to high mechanization.There has never been a hunger because the people could not produce food or the land was bad, but because of political and economical factors.

The starvation in Ukraine ( the grain barn of europe ) was started cause of political stupidity.
The hunger in Germany after world war 1 was because of hyper inflation ( and that was in a time when almost all food was produced by small farmers)

And the most important factor by me for the USA is "being spoiled".Your social security check is 5 times the wage for a full time job in Asia,South America and Eastern Europe.What you consider poverty is not exactly being poor.You go into a meltdown when there is not another X-box on black Friday (I think it was called like that :D) so what do you think will happen when the stores start getting half empty,the SS check does not come,gas is x10,you need 2 trillion dollars to buy bread and EVERYONE IS ARMED.And then you also have a few million immigrants to include into the problem.

See during the great depression the USA made almost everything it spent, people were more tough and less dependent on government assistance today it is a very different society.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Does RT have a bias like MSNBC and Fox News? Or are they pretty legit? Heard about RT on a different forum. Curious about it.

I guess the only bias they have is against the MSM. They of course are a Russian based news outlet so they are apposed to American Interventionism which is why they are very supportive of a non-status quo candidate like Ron Paul. So in a sense I guess you could say that that is a bias.

[Victor]

Al Jazeera is a fairly unbiased news channel as well. http://www.aljazeera.com

Then independant news organisations like The Real News - http://therealnews.com/t2/

Then believe it or not we have pretty good news from our two main Swedish TV channels. Although sometimes they rely on foreign news oulets i.e propaganda.

Furthermore, critical thinking & awareness of propaganda is thought in school. At least when I attended it back in the 90's.

Cocerning Libya, they wanted to introduce a new african currency backed by gold.

[Demigod]

I believe Barrex is from Croatia. There is a news outlet from Russia called RT. It reports alternative points of view when compared to US MSM. Here is a live feed of their broadcasts......... http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

They also have a Youtube channel....... http://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica

RT only airs in America not in Europe.Here the media is bought by the EU and USA and just says the same things every day.

"The EU is great the EU is glorious we are barbarians we must go join the EU to become glorious " but on the other hand unlike in the USA where you take conspiracy theorists like crazy here it is the national past time.We see conspiracy's in everything and rarely take something for granted.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

RT only airs in America not in Europe.Here the media is bought by the EU and USA and just says the same things every day.

"The EU is great the EU is glorious we are barbarians we must go join the EU to become glorious " but on the other hand unlike in the USA where you take conspiracy theorists like crazy here it is the national past time.We see conspiracy's in everything and rarely take something for granted.

Ya, I have a few buddies from the UK here in Taiwan. They often say more or less the same thing. You should here some of what we discuss at times. It's epic.

[Barrex]

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are. I'm curious if you'd be willing to share media sources you frequent. I'm always looking for an outsider's view
and @cmm2k5

I dont have to dig for these information. News about Russia,China and Japan trading in their own currencies is well known fact in my country. It was in every news and on every media (TV, radio, newspapers, our web pages etc.). Our government or corporations are not that strong to be able to hide information from people. They tried few times and there is always some smart-ass who leaks information (in Croatia this happens all the time and it is not such big of a deal...especially if it is in public interest) or some citizen finds out there is something fishy and people start asking question....
Example 2: Croatia sent soldiers to Afghanistan. There was a lot of pressure from Croatian people because there were not enough information about it. Government was forced to send only those who volunteered and that those soldiers go only as instructors not as combat soldiers. (http://dalje.com/en-croatia/croatian-armed-forces-successful-in-afghanistan/157178)
In U.S.A. there was censorship of everything that happend during war in Afghanistan (reporters werent allowed to show pictures of dead, destroyed US vehicles ). In Croatia informations were instant. There was live coverage of everything. Even soldiers sent pictures to their families who then in some cases forwarded them to reporters (Pyramid of prosciutto ham (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?90194-Croatia-in-Afghanistan-ISAF-Updated-thread)).

I am always surprised when people in US dont know some for me commonly known things. When in debates everyone talks about killing Iranian scientists, invading Iran etc. for average person in Croatia it is hard to digest those things.

I think that we are privy to more info than people in US are. Problem is that I dont know about those things until I start to speak with someone from U.S.A.If you got any questions I will be glad to answer them. (Newest thing that I found out was NATO base in Croatia) Ill stop now because i dont want to hijack this thread...

[Mini-Me]

Yes food but most of your food is made by corporations now.If the dollar just inflates those corporations would collapse.Also most of the agriculture the USA has is heavily depended on oil cause of high mechanization.There has never been a hunger cause the people could not produce food or the land was bad it was because of political and economical factors.
That's another thing I didn't think of: Even modern agricultural production is heavily dependent upon oil. Barring political stupidity, I'm not concerned about the failure of food companies as a direct result of a currency collapse, corporations or not: Even if the dollar collapses, companies - even corporations - will soon find an alternate means of exchange to stay afloat and sell their products. However, I don't doubt that heavy-handed political stupidity WILL follow a dollar collapse; the stage is not being set for totalitarian powers for no reason, after all.

Even if the government allows the market to work though, you're still probably right in an indirect sense: Even if we establish an interim currency (whether toilet paper or something historically sound like gold/silver), the rest of us still don't exactly produce enough of anything else to trade for food. Our best bet would be actually exporting cheap food for oil using an internationally useful means of exchange (probably gold), but that would obviously reduce the American food supply in the short term...and the short term is long enough for people to starve.


The starvation in Ukraine ( the grain barn of europe ) was started cause of political stupidity.
The hunger in Germany after world war 1 was because of hyper inflation ( and that was in a time when almost all food was produced by small farmers)
Indeed...and the famines under Communist governments were also largely political in nature.


And the most important factor by me for the USA is "being spoiled".Your social security check is 5 times the wage for a full time job in Asia,South America and Eastern Europe.What you consider poverty is not exactly being poor.You go into a meltdown when there is not another X-box on black Friday (I think it was called like that :D) so what do you think will happen when the stores start getting half empty,the SS check does not come,gas is x10,you need 2 trillion dollars to buy bread and EVERYONE IS ARMED.And then you also have a few million immigrants to include into the problem.

See during the great depression the USA made almost everything it spent, people were more tough and less dependent on government assistance today it is a very different society.

I agree...we are completely spoiled, and we have become a very entitlement-minded society in more ways than one.

For one thing, we're going to see a lot of stupids in denial during a collapse, much like in Greece, where protesters kept demanding cushy jobs and benefits from their bankrupt government. Worse though, even people with a good head on their shoulders are not ready for the shock we're going to receive. We're simply too accustomed to living lavishly and pissing money away on frivolous things. My great grandparents had a garden and raised chickens and rabbits during the Great Depression, and my grandpa worked his ass off as a small child both for them and picking grapes for neighbors (he picked grapes, my great-grandpa made wine, and the two families split the final product). That was on top of going to school and working a job. Overall, they were better off than many. We are TOTALLY not ready for this kind of lifestyle. I am totally not ready for this kind of lifestyle...and my own specialized skills will be completely useless in this kind of environment. For that matter, the government - ever hellbent on keeping people dependent - has actively discouraged people from becoming anywhere near self-sufficient.

The gun culture is going to be a mixed blessing: On the one hand, it will make armed looters common...but on the other hand, it will allow others to defend against them. It also just might stand in the way of a complete totalitarian takeover, considering people are going to go to great lengths to protect their freedom to trade when their lives actually depend on it. If complete social breakdown occurs and the government loses all credibility, their mandates may not be taken seriously anymore, and they won't have the means to enforce them.

As a side note, I don't think the immigrants are going to be a problem; they're going to run right back to Mexico and Central and South America the moment this country becomes even worse. :-/

May I ask what country you live in?

[eleganz]

No, that's not me. I am an English teacher at Tzu-Chi University in Hualien. Ron Paul supporter's in Taiwan are everywhere. It's common knowledge amongst the expat community worldwide that the only candidate worthy of the presidency is Ron Paul. No one else will do.


Cool! Tzu Chi is a very good organization, I like and respect their mission.

I'm a Fo Guang Shuan kid myself. :)

[Demigod]

May I ask what country you live in?

Republic of Macedonia

[nicname]

I can hear it now.

An upcoming debate.

RP - ...and besides the sanctions don't work anyway, India is planning to pay for Iranian oil in gold. China is getting in line right behind them. What are we going to do start a war with Iran, India and China?

some other candidate (probably Santorum) - We'll do whatever it takes. The United State of America does not tolerate nations who support or prop up known terrorist states. They are anti-west, anti-america and if India and whomever else want to support them then we'll go after them too!

cue applause from GOP debate audience.

[Dsylexic]

RT may be owned by Russian govt.but the anchors are all american.arent they? even adam kokesh had his own show on it.
so unless you want to accuse the fairly intelligent discussion on RT as libertarian bias from the Russian govt -which is as improbable as snow in the sahara-the correct conclusion is that RT America has become a libertarian refuge,just like stossel and judge on fox business. like minded anchors attract each other.
so,i dont think MSM is a 'conspiracy by murdoch'.it is just that like minded people work together.statists,socialists and neocons flock together at cnn and msnbc or fox. libertarians on RT and Fox biz

[Barrex]

I believe Barrex is from Croatia. There is a news outlet from Russia called RT. It reports alternative points of view when compared to US MSM. Here is a live feed of their broadcasts......... http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

They also have a Youtube channel....... http://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica
goliberty78
Yes I am from Croatia....and sharing sources is not problem. Problem is that they are on Croatian...or german from time to time.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Al Jazeera is a fairly unbiased news channel as well. http://www.aljazeera.com

Then independant news organisations like The Real News - http://therealnews.com/t2/

Then believe it or not we have pretty good news from our two main Swedish TV channels. Although sometimes they rely on foreign news oulets i.e propaganda.

Furthermore, critical thinking & awareness of propaganda is thought in school. At least when I attended it back in the 90's.

Cocerning Libya, they wanted to introduce a new african currency backed by gold.

I would not call al jazeera un biased and certeainly not trustworthy . . .

it is the state owned media of Qatar and perheps because of its' middle eastern " heritage " is all too often seen as legit

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?306316-Qatar-Al-Jazeera-Israel-Secretary-Clinton-and-Libya&highlight=qatar+jazeera

[BigByrd47119]

RT may be owned by Russian govt.but the anchors are all american.arent they? even adam kokesh had his own show on it.
so unless you want to accuse the fairly intelligent discussion on RT as libertarian bias from the Russian govt -which is as improbable as snow in the sahara-the correct conclusion is that RT America has become a libertarian refuge,just like stossel and judge on fox business. like minded anchors attract each other.
so,i dont think MSM is a 'conspiracy by murdoch'.it is just that like minded people work together.statists,socialists and neocons flock together at cnn and msnbc or fox. libertarians on RT and Fox biz

http://dailypicksandflicks.com/2011/07/18/did-you-know-of-the-day-21/ :D

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Here is a video on this topic at RT right now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u7KnXyrKmQ&list=UUczrL-2b-gYK3l4yDld4XlQ&index=3&feature=plcp

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

Thanks for posting this video.

To any international posters for whom this is all common knowledge, you have to believe that 99.5% of Americans know nothing about this.

I'm 43 and just learned of it all last night. What an eye openner this all is.

Paulites, if you have not yet watched the videos in this thread, it's critical you become aware of this Petrodollar situation and why the dollar is really in jeopardy and the need to get control of Irans oil to save it. The videos also explain why we have become a nation of exporting dollars instead of goods.





news
Here is a video on this topic at RT right now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u7KnXyrKmQ&list=UUczrL-2b-gYK3l4yDld4XlQ&index=3&feature=plcp

[hazek]

I looked a bit and wasn't able to find any western sources of this news on google. I'm not saying it's not true but I'd like to see more evidence before I'll believe it's true.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Thanks for posting this video.

No problem here is some more on the topic and they mention Ron Paul's position on the issue........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzr9zEN00As&list=UUczrL-2b-gYK3l4yDld4XlQ&index=5&feature=plcp

[Victor]

I would not call al jazeera un biased and certeainly not trustworthy . . .

it is the state owned media of Qatar and perheps because of its' middle eastern " heritage " is all too often seen as legit

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?306316-Qatar-Al-Jazeera-Israel-Secretary-Clinton-and-Libya&highlight=qatar+jazeera

True. Although they had plenty of live coverage when the uprising in Egypt happened. And to my knowledge that was not an CIA op.

All news are propaganda in someway, you have to be selective in what to believe in and always be on your guard. There is a war on people's minds & hearts.

[nbruno322]

True. Although they had plenty of live coverage when the uprising in Egypt happened. And to my knowledge that was not an CIA op.

All news are propaganda in someway, you have to be selective in what to believe in and always be on your guard. There is a war on people's minds & hearts.

Qatar used to be WAY more neutral than what it has become now....essentially now another full-blown puppet sheikhdom in the gulf that wouldn't exist if not for the Brits and Americans.

I dare you to compare their coverage of the protests in Eastern Saudi Arabia and Bahrain to that of their sensationalized coverage of Syria and Libya. Its laughable.

Also, it is well known that the gulf sheikhdoms play footsie with Israel covertly...however it has now become more overt, the Emir of Qatar recently visited Tzipi Livni in Israel. Now that is all fine and non of my business, but I just bring it up to illustrate that Qatar is certainly not as neutral as they portray themselves to be.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYNVXinDtGA

[r3volutionpaul91]

if it takes a total collapse of the US dollar for people to wake up then so be it. Yes it would be one of the worst things that could happen to this country but it would also guarantee an awakening of at least 90% of americans to ron paul's message, If the people still are clueless then we really are screwed. I guess all we can do is wait and see, it isnt no "if" it crashes, its "when". after watching these videos the crash of the dollar is inevitable.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

All news are propaganda in someway, you have to be selective in what to believe in and always be on your guard. There is a war on people's minds & hearts.

So true Victor.

[Mini-Me]

if it takes a total collapse of the US dollar for people to wake up then so be it. Yes it would be one of the worst things that could happen to this country but it would also guarantee an awakening of at least 90% of americans to ron paul's message, If the people still are clueless then we really are screwed. I guess all we can do is wait and see, it isnt no "if" it crashes, its "when". after watching these videos the crash of the dollar is inevitable.

I don't know if that would really guarantee an awakening to Ron Paul's message though. When people are starving in the streets, and the media wails, "Capitalism has failed! Trust your government; they'll save you!" what do you think they're going to believe?

Depending on how rapidly the dollar hyperinflates, we could seriously have trouble getting the oil to produce and transport food. We still aren't drilling in Alaska, and I don't know of any existing energy alternatives currently capable of that kind of legwork either. Both alternatives take time to set into motion. If the petrodollar system failed suddenly and spectacularly tomorrow, then two weeks from now, you might be much more concerned about the survival of your family than the popularity of Ron Paul's message. Be careful what you wish for.

In the end, a full collapse just might wake the public up, and it just might be necessary to do so...but don't say "bring it on" until you know we'll manage to scrape by. If the collapse is slow, we'll manage to restructure, no matter how painful it is. If the collapse is sudden, it could be horrific, and you or I might be among the casualties. Economic collapses have occurred frequently throughout history, and people generally scraped by, but they usually had much more local sources of food. I don't think an economic collapse has ever happened in a country with such a high, nonlocal division of labor and such nonlocal food sourcing, and I'm not exactly excited to see what it will look like.

[bronxboy10]

Pretty amazing stuff. I hope he brings it up.

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

if it takes a total collapse of the US dollar for people to wake up then so be it. Yes it would be one of the worst things that could happen to this country but it would also guarantee an awakening of at least 90% of americans to ron paul's message, If the people still are clueless then we really are screwed. I guess all we can do is wait and see, it isnt no "if" it crashes, its "when". after watching these videos the crash of the dollar is inevitable.

Those who have billions of U.S. dollars will do everything they can to take over Irans oil to protect their "petrodollar" wealth.

The dollar crashing next isn't my most immediate concern.

WORLD WAR III is most probable to happen here next. :(

[Mini-Me]

Those who have billions of U.S. dollars will do everything they can to take over Irans oil to protect their "petrodollar" wealth.

The dollar crashing next isn't my most immediate concern.

WORLD WAR III is most probable to happen here next. :(

Interestingly, individual billionaires are plenty capable of transferring many of their dollars to other currencies or hard assets. Foreign governments are another story; for instance, China has a vested interest to get as much as they can for their dollars. That's one of the reasons for the push for an international fiat currency: Dollar holders want to exchange their currency for something out of US control before it's too late, and globalist elites obviously want to be in charge.

The World War III threat is related to the petrodollar situation, but I think the likely reasons are tied more indirectly. The way I see it, there are a few reasons some might want to push for it:
Globalists may want to keep the petrodollar game running as long as they can before jumping ship, even if it means the threat of World War III. There might be ulterior motives here too, such as wanting to completely destroy America's morale and reputation throughout the world. Right now, we're disliked by many and barely tolerated by our allies. If the US government provokes World War III over this, we will be written about in the history books like Nazi Germany. What better way to finally destroy the country that gave birth to the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution?
Globalists might not actually want war; instead, they might be guiding their pawns to put imminent pressure on other governments, with the intent of accelerating global fiat currency talks. China in particular would be very happy to take the deal: Getting a "fresh" currency would bail them out of their dollars and maintain their oil purchasing power, even though it would be no real help to us (since we have no manufacturing capacity). However, many in the political class might actually have emotional ties to America, so they don't want to just "jump ship," and their goal is to blindly "protect" the petrodollar at all costs. It's possible that the elites are actually divided on a course of action: The more liberal ones may want one world government and currency in the way we traditionally think of it, whereas the neocons might actually want an eternal American empire as an alternative.
Even if there's no ideological divide in the ranks of the elites, "rogue puppets" could still fall under the American imperialist category. You know how the elites used Osama bin Laden to mire the Soviets in Afghanistan, and then years later he turned on them? For all we know, useful idiots like Santorum could end up behaving similarly. The real power brokers could hypothetically be bluffing, but if neocon politicians have been drinking their own kool-aid for too long, they might now be wild cards who are dangerous to practically everyone.
The worst case scenario is that people like Alex Jones guessed correctly, and the globalists literally want to decimate the world population.

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

Mini-me,

You were being rational in your thought processes of options the global elites can take.



So far, their rational lead them to chose the option of invading Iraq, killing Saddam and take over control of their oil.

They chose to attack Lybia, kill Gaddahfi and throw a wrench in their going off the petro dollar system for now.

Why won't they choose to attack Iran next? Iran has friends that can make it a real cluster&^%$ for us if we do.

The global elites are KRAZY, not rational.

I am hoping as you suggested may happen, that many puppets get a flash of conscious and turn on their puppeteers through this, including those in the media.

[Mini-Me]

Mini-me,

You were being rational in your thought processes of options the global elites can take.



So far, their rational lead them to chose the option of invading Iraq, killing Saddam and take over control of their oil.

They chose to attack Lybia, kill Gaddahfi and throw a wrench in their going off the petro dollar system for now.

Why won't they choose to attack Iran next? Iran has friends that can make it a real cluster&^%$ for us if we do.

The global elites are KRAZY, not rational.

I am hoping as you suggested may happen, that many puppets get a flash of conscious and turn on their puppeteers through this, including those in the media.

Unfortunately, I meant my comment about puppets more pessimistically: If some of the elites are actually American imperialists for real, the warmongering and third world country takeovers could very well be - as you say - irrational and desperate means to an end. However, pretend for a second that the actual globalist elites are not actually crazy enough to take things as far as all-out World War III. Pretend they're willing to take over countries like Iraq, Libya, and Iran, but they'll back down from war with China and Russia if push comes to shove. What about their brainwashed neocon puppets? Those guys might still actually believe in American empire (AMERICA, F*** YEAH!) with all their hearts. If that's the case, then those guys will still be crazy enough to drive America into World War III even if the globalists are not...which makes them dangerous to ALL of us.

Personally though, I tentatively believe the first option (from my above post) is the case: At least some of the elites want to keep the petrodollar game running as long as they can, but I do think they're also excited about letting America start World War III, so we'll be demonized for the rest of history almost as much as Nazi Germany. I have the impression that they hate our Enlightenment heritage, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence SO much that they want to see us destroyed, and they never want another country like the US to ever come into being again. Their takeover of the country was our humiliation, and our destruction will be their triumph.

All that said, I think China will be loathe to go to war, even on behalf of their ally Iran. They just have too many US dollars on the line to let the US destroy itself suddenly, so they're much more interested in seeing a world currency take shape before World War III or a petrodollar collapse. At the same time, some of their allies do not share those same interests...which is why there are just so many possible outcomes from this situation. For all we know, the elites are playing both sides too: They could be happy with either World War III or a global fiat currency, whichever comes first (and a global fiat currency will likely follow World War III anyway).

It's quite possible that other countries are watching our elections with interest to see if we have a change in policy at this 11th hour. I don't know if 2012 is our last chance or not, but 2016 just seems so far away right now, now that I've finally taken these issues into full consideration.