My city mulling Pit Bull / Dangerous Animal ban

[thehungarian]

I'd like to get your thoughts on this because you are all beautiful people.


Proposed restrictions for pit bulls and other "dangerous animals" promise to stir emotions with pet owners.

City Councilman Rob Vande Zande will discuss his plan Wednesday night for ordinances that would add rules for pit bull owners and prohibit new pit bulls from being licensed.

"If you have a pit bull now, you're not going to have to give your pit bull up," Vande Zande said. "If there are any new pit bulls — a female with a litter of pups — after 12 weeks, those pups would not be allowed to be in Fond du Lac."

The new rules would prohibit pit bulls at the Fond du Lac Humane Society from being adopted by city of Fond du Lac families. It also would prohibit people who move to the city from bringing their pit bull pet with them.

A second part of his proposal — unrelated to pit bull rules — would prohibit people from owning or possessing any wild or exotic animals, including any animal having poisonous bites. It could include primates, raccoons, skunks, foxes and wild and exotic cats.

The Fond du Lac City Council meets at 7 p.m. Wednesday in the Legislative Chambers of the City County Government Center, 160 S. Macy St. The public is welcome to attend.

No action on the pit bull/dangerous animal proposal will be taken Wednesday night. Citizens normally have the opportunity to speak for up to five minutes on any agenda items.

If there appears to be some support for the proposal from other council members, it could be brought back for a vote at the Feb. 8 meeting.

Dog bites
Vande Zande said he has researched the numbers of reported dog bites in the city over the past five years. The percentage that is attributable to pit bull breeds has increased from 10.7 percent of the bites in 2007 to 33.3 percent of the bites in 2011.

"I'm not saying all pit bulls are bad," he said. "The numbers speak volumes — we need to seriously look at this."

About 20 other Wisconsin communities have ordinances that relate to pit bulls and/or dangerous animals. Some nearby communities with ordinances include Ripon, Mayville, Fox Lake, Montello and Juneau.

I've read plenty of articles from different cities that are engaging in the same type of proposal. It seems like there's a national campaign to outlaw pit bulls at the local level and it's getting silly.

Now, my personal take on this is that there is absolutely no need for this nonsense, especially the "dangerous animal" part. To me, they are just looking for another thing to punish people over. Obviously, pit bulls can be quite dangerous in the wrong hands, more so than other dogs. They have incredibly strong jaws and are very muscular and if you're not careful or informed about your particular dog's pedigree then you could setting yourself up for a potentially bad situation. But that is no reason to pass yet another law. I find it sort of silly that the same state that just passed a conceal-carry law now is out to ban ownership of an animal.

To go even further, my opinion is that there is a hint of racial animus that is attached to a proposal like this. In the last 5 years or so Fond du Lac(my city) has gotten a large influx of blacks and latinos, mostly from the Milwaukee and Chicago communities, of which the pit bull is fairly popular. I frequently see young men out walking their cute little pit bull pups(I just want to hug them) and you never saw this before 2006, so this is a fairly recent phenomenon. Of course, this won't be admitted publicly and I'd have no way of proving the sentiment. It's just the general feeling I get.

In short, a "dangerous animal" ban is retarded and should never be adopted. I don't think anyone needs a law to tell them that keeping a coyote or a fox or a badger for a pet is a bad idea. Are pit bulls statistically more dangerous than other large dogs i.e rottweilers, dobermans, mastiffs, german shepards, great danes etc? Take away dog fighting rings and I'd have to think it's negligible. But I have no doubts that in a few years they would expand the ban to include most large breeds. If they are truly concerned about safety then try to educate the public and change their minds. Maybe the local paper should do a 3-part series on why you should buy a cat or a chihuahua instead of that bloodthirsty 3 month old pit bull with the adorable eyes.

What say you?

[cindy25]

so all pit bulls are now mongrels?

[LoneWolf]

Time to vote that retard out of office. By banning people with pit bulls from moving there he is hurting the city not helping it.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Other dogs are often misidentified as pit bulls after an event happens. By far, the most dangerous animal is man anyway, especially those who seek power over others.

[Nastynate]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18656_483428005175_674650175_11191852_4546827_n.jp g

Does that look like a viscous killer? My dog Lando is the nicest dog you'd ever meet. The problem with pitbulls are they are strong and smart, they get out of their cages and go on a rampage. I left my dog out of the kennel once when we left and he ended up digging a hole into our floor to get out to look for us.

And he is only half pitbull.

[thehungarian]

Time to vote that retard out of office. By banning people with pit bulls from moving there he is hurting the city not helping it.

The city council is five people and they are all quite old. I've always thought about running for a seat myself; my uncle was on the council before being elected to the Wisconsin Assembly in 2010, so he could give advice. I would be BY FAR the youngest person there.

They do stupid shit like this all the time.

[thehungarian]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18656_483428005175_674650175_11191852_4546827_n.jp g

Does that look like a viscous killer? My dog Lando is the nicest dog you'd ever meet. The problem with pitbulls are they are strong and smart, they get out of their cages and go on a rampage. I left my dog out of the kennel once when we left and he ended up digging a hole into our floor to get out to look for us.

And he is only half pitbull.

Lando is an amazing name. I'm jealous.

City government logic: Bad owners are the problem, but if we limit the choices of the bad owners they'll buy an approved dog and they'll magically turn into a good owner!

[noxagol]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=693U_rucB8s

[cindy25]

The city council is five people and they are all quite old. I've always thought about running for a seat myself; my uncle was on the council before being elected to the Wisconsin Assembly in 2010, so he could give advice. I would be BY FAR the youngest person there.

They do stupid shit like this all the time.

run against the old fool dog hater; make dogs an issue; its something everyone can identify with

and your first promise:
ABOLISH ALL DOG LICENSES
(you don't need a license for children, or a cat why for dogs?)

[r3volution]

i have a 90lb male pit and he is a pussy . i bought him in the ghetto from a person that was obviously breeding them to fight . so far he got his ass kicked by a wiener dog , groundhog , cat , and a puppy lab . but he did take a diarrhea shit on a chow once , that is the only time he has mean . kinda .
but my wife treats him like a child so no , they are not dangerous . unless you want them to be . the same could be said about any domesticated animal .

[papitosabe]

Does that look like a viscous killer? My dog Lando is the nicest dog you'd ever meet. The problem with pitbulls are they are strong and smart, they get out of their cages and go on a rampage. I left my dog out of the kennel once when we left and he ended up digging a hole into our floor to get out to look for us.

And he is only half pitbull.

thats what people say before they attack another dog, adult or child...I've seen 2 attacks in my life, and one was a pitbull on another dog, and one was a half pitbull that attacked and shredded my friends arm when he ran to get a ball...the owner said it was his fault, and that the dog was nice and wouldn't hurt a fly, blah blah blah...dunno...

[Invi]

Pibbles can be some of the most adorable, friendly dogs ever. As can Rotties, Dobermanns, GSDs, and pretty much any other breed someone can think to call "aggressive" based solely on their pedigree.

I've been bitten by terriers, chihuahuas, & attacked by a saint bernard mix. Met more aggressive chow chows and cocker spaniels than I can count.
Pits have just been popularized as THE fighting dog to have. Then you have bad owners who can't deal with a headstrong, smart, and strong animal.

Occasionally a dog is just aggressive. It happens. It's not a breed problem.
Cocker spaniels can get aggressive due to a condition that happens with the breed; rots their brain, basically. Don't see anyone trying to outlaw cockers.
Chow chows are notorious for being one-family dogs. They can get aggressive with strangers. Very few places have breed specific legislation dealing with chows.
The dog breed that has the highest number of "bites" per year tends to vary based on what breeds are popular at the time.

I'm really not fond of breed specific legislation. I don't like the idea that the government, no matter how local, can tell me what I can and can not have as a pet, especially as far as domestic animals go.

I am, however, all for keeping your animal on your own property. If it gets off of your property and causes harm, you are obviously responsible for that.

[thehungarian]

run against the old fool dog hater; make dogs an issue; its something everyone can identify with

and your first promise:
ABOLISH ALL DOG LICENSES
(you don't need a license for children, or a cat why for dogs?)

I had a brain thought after reading this. If owner's of dogs are normally liable for their dogs actions i.e getting sued if your dog gets loose and attacks your neighbor or his dog, then why aren't parents liable for their children when they commit violent acts? Is this a licensing issue where they are forcing you to claim responsibility because of your license or do I have that wrong?

We don't sue the parents of the bratty kindergartner who bit your daughter during school, do we? We also don't prohibit adoption of red heads just because they're more likely to be aggressive than the blue eyed blondie(I just made that up for argument, gingers are perfectly fine.).

[cindy25]

a hamster bite is more painful than a dog bite, so should Hamsters be banned?

dogs are individuals; to ban a dog because he is a pitbull is the same as banning blacks or Muslims

[papitosabe]

a hamster bite is more painful than a dog bite, so should Hamsters be banned?

dogs are individuals; to ban a dog because he is a pitbull is the same as banning blacks or Muslims

if hamsters and chihuahuas start mauling and killing people, then yes, ban all hamsters and chihuahuas...

[aGameOfThrones]

http://pitbullextreme.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/vintage-pit-bull-and-policeman-1880.jpg

//

[cindy25]

if hamsters and chihuahuas start mauling and killing people, then yes, ban all hamsters and chihuahuas...

I have no stats but I bet people killed more people than pit bulls

to generalize with a breed of dog is just as bad as generalizing against a race of people

and this is just an excuse to ban all dogs at some point.

first pit bulls, then rots, then Malinois and sheps, then a beagle will bite someone so they will want to ban beagles.

[papitosabe]

I have no stats but I bet people killed more people than pit bulls

to generalize with a breed of dog is just as bad as generalizing against a race of people

and this is just an excuse to ban all dogs at some point.

first pit bulls, then rots, then Malinois and sheps, then a beagle will bite someone so they will want to ban beagles.

dogs aren't people ... my god, ur gonna use the gov't is trying to ban all dogs excuse...lmao... ok, you win... goodnite..

[DealzOnWheelz]

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=676

http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pit-bulls-ten-things-you-should-know.html


You should read these articles

[papitosabe]

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=676

http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pit-bulls-ten-things-you-should-know.html


You should read these articles

meh, the reason we hear about things these days is instant media... it probably happened back then, maybe it wasn't as renowned...I dunno... so what do you say about people with the cutest, calmest, loving pitbulls that maul babies? when your kid gets mauled, then come show me those same articles...I dont buy it, but I may be wrong...I saw my friends arm, and I almost thru up, I doubt I'll ever see a chihuahua or hamster do what that dog did.. and I'm not talking about the losers that breed dogs to attack, I can understand that's the owners fault, I'm talking about the sweet, lovable ones that maul...

http://pit-bulls.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

oh, and I had a friend that had 2 pitbulls, never had any issues...very calm... but doesn't mean I'd have them around my child...no way, no how..

[Lishy]

I'm not a dog person. AT ALL!!!

But then again, I don't think I can complain since I find Dwarf Caiman to be cute.

[cindy25]

what is needed is Boomer's Law, and while this is a state issue I thought I'd bring it up

[tod evans]

If city counsel really wants to legislate "protection" look at drivers......under 25....over 65.......cars over 10yrs old.
Maybe follow Cal. ....legislate fat in food.
Wait....how about legislating income? Poor folks comit more crimes than rich ones...Far more citizens are harmed by people who are poor than by pitbulls........outlaw young/poor/old/black/white/red......

[papitosabe]

If city counsel really wants to legislate "protection" look at drivers......under 25....over 65.......cars over 10yrs old.
Maybe follow Cal. ....legislate fat in food.
Wait....how about legislating income? Poor folks comit more crimes than rich ones...Far more citizens are harmed by people who are poor than by pitbulls........outlaw young/poor/old/black/white/red......

meh...just pitbulls...maybe alligators too..

[cindy25]

If city counsel really wants to legislate "protection" look at drivers......under 25....over 65.......cars over 10yrs old.
Maybe follow Cal. ....legislate fat in food.
Wait....how about legislating income? Poor folks comit more crimes than rich ones...Far more citizens are harmed by people who are poor than by pitbulls........outlaw young/poor/old/black/white/red......

don't give them any ideas; Singapore actually does ban cars over a certain age

[LoneWolf]

The city council is five people and they are all quite old. I've always thought about running for a seat myself; my uncle was on the council before being elected to the Wisconsin Assembly in 2010, so he could give advice. I would be BY FAR the youngest person there.

They do stupid shit like this all the time.
I say go for it! You should have an experienced person in your corner in your Uncle. The more we have in local seats the better...never know you may be the 1 vote that stops these stupid laws from going into effect.

[pcosmar]

Cassiopeia says,

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5045/5348979307_a3fede6983_z.jpg

What is viscous animal?

I had trouble with this in Florida. I went through 3 Insurance Companies for my Homeowners Ins.
They wanted to call "Little Bit" a viscous animal. She was a 110lb Rott and not a viscous hair on her hide.

Fearful Idiots.
:(

[Pericles]

Other dogs are often misidentified as pit bulls after an event happens. By far, the most dangerous animal is man anyway, especially those who seek power over others.

Too bad we can't pass a ban on dangerous politicians.

[pcosmar]

meh...just pitbulls...maybe alligators too..

See, that's how it goes.
First one thing,, then everything.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/pet-alligator-2.jpg?w=500&h=615

[Pericles]

See, that's how it goes.
First one thing,, then everything.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/pet-alligator-2.jpg?w=500&h=615

It is obvious that some people just don't like pets.

[cartemj06]

As a pitbull owner I want to say Two things, One Cesar Milan is not credible... Two Pitbulls are not dangerous.
Pitbulls are not a breed of dog, and If you PM me I might be able to get you in touch with a forum that I belong to for Pits and they will have serious information that you can use.

[Dr.3D]

Why not just let people be responsible for what their pet does? If the insurance company doesn't want to insure your home because you have a dog, then tell them not to give you insurance for dog bite and you can take care of that yourself.

Whatever happened to self responsibility?

[heavenlyboy34]

My sis's dog is about half pitbull/half lab. He's really tame. He loves everyone unless they act really aggressive toward him or steal his toys.

[Dr.3D]

My sis's dog is about half pitbull/half lab. He's really tame. He loves everyone unless they act really aggressive toward him or steal his toys.

Yeah, I have two Dobermans and one insurance company refused to insure my home. I told them I would have fired them anyway and found another company.

I'm responsible for what my dogs do, not some insurance company.

[papitosabe]

its easy to say have the owner be responsible, but when that pitbull mauls a child, then what? a fine, jailtime? what about the child?

[brandon]

My sister and a couple of her friends were mauled by a pack of pit bulls inside one of the girl's homes. All the girls were probably about 12 years old at the time. It was very bad - they all needed surgeries and hundreds of stitches, but luckily no one died or has any lasting injuries(just scars). Each girl got about 50k or so in settlement.


IMO we don't need a law banning dangerous animals, but the owners should face criminal charges of negligence and assault when the animals attack innocent people unprovoked.

[thehungarian]

its easy to say have the owner be responsible, but when that pitbull mauls a child, then what? a fine, jailtime? what about the child?

Owner liability is the only reasonable solution, imo. It's fairly easy to say "what about the child" in a situation like this, which hints that prohibition of certain things - in this case pit bulls - would result in more safety. Would banning firearms result in more safety?

Another problem is the media sensationalizing the issue and jumping on every story where a pit bull bites someone, making it out to be an epidemic.

[jkob]

In MY experience, pits are vicious dogs that insecure lowlifes get for the purposes of scaring the **** of people and making themselves look tough. We can't forget the despicable act of dog fighting either. That's not media hype, that's what I've personally observed. I understand that there are good pits and the owner plays a big role in their personality but you can't exactly ban the owners. A pit is extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, more so than any other dog IMO. A chihuahua and poodle or whatever might be more aggressive but I haven't ever heard of anybody being mauled to death by one. When it comes down to it, you do not have to inalienable right to intimidate people and put their well being at risk. I don't know if banning them is the answer but I will shed no tears if they were.

[noneedtoaggress]

What say you?

Petty tyrants.

[Tinnuhana]

Personally, I've never met an ill-mannered pit bull. But I'm sure there are some out there. In one study done on aggressive tendencies (to try to bite strangers), the top worst breeds were: 1) dachshunds 2)chihuahuas and 3)jack russells. They said 20-25% of the dachshunds observed tried to bite a stranger. Of course, that means that 75-80% don't.
On the other end of the spectrum were labs, retrievers, and rotties. Of course, rotties are big and dangerous-looking, so they are right up there for having themselves banned. A good resource for dealing with aggressive tendencies in individual dogs is the yahoogroup "agbeh" (for aggressive behaviors in dogs). It's a good place to lurk: lots of dog trainers on that group.
On another subject brought up by the OP, "exotic" animals: some people say that any animal domesticated for more than four generations is no longer wild. Lots could be said here, but I think it's about time to get domesticated skunks off that list. Of course, they want to scare everyone into thinking that skunks just get born with rabies, which is ridiculous. It's like saying native americans are born with alcoholism. I "rescued" an albino skunk from a local pet store and got her to a good home in one of the states where it's legal to have a pet skunk. She was a very sweet girl, once she got used to not living in a fish tank and eating cat food kibble (at the pet store).

[malkusm]

In MY experience, pits are vicious dogs that insecure lowlifes get for the purposes of scaring the **** of people and making themselves look tough.

That's great, but circumstantial evidence doesn't hold up in a court of law, and shouldn't be the basis of any law. Just like a warm winter doesn't prove man-made global warming - in fact, 50 warm winters out of 70 still wouldn't prove man-made global warming - neither does your experience form the basis of a credible argument to ban an entire breed of animal.

Forming a law on the basis of this sort of circumstantial evidence leads to all sorts of wrong conclusions and is particularly dangerous because it's a form of collective thinking. Generalizations can't be made on the basis of simple observation, whether it's with dogs ("pits are vicious dogs") or with terrorism ("Muslims are mostly terrorists").

[pcosmar]

My sister and a couple of her friends were mauled by a pack of pit bulls inside one of the girl's homes. All the girls were probably about 12 years old at the time. It was very bad - they all needed surgeries and hundreds of stitches, but luckily no one died or has any lasting injuries(just scars).

How did that pack of Pit Bulls get inside the girls home?

And what were those girls doing to the dogs before the "attack".

I knew 2 guys that got torn up by a Pit Bull. A very pleasant dog the was highly protective of the small child in the home.
They were fucking with the dog,, one holding its tail and the other smacking it's face. The dog had enough and fucked them both up in about 3 seconds.

99% of dog "attacks" have a reason.

[cindy25]

In MY experience, pits are vicious dogs that insecure lowlifes get for the purposes of scaring the **** of people and making themselves look tough. We can't forget the despicable act of dog fighting either. That's not media hype, that's what I've personally observed. I understand that there are good pits and the owner plays a big role in their personality but you can't exactly ban the owners. A pit is extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, more so than any other dog IMO. A chihuahua and poodle or whatever might be more aggressive but I haven't ever heard of anybody being mauled to death by one. When it comes down to it, you do not have to inalienable right to intimidate people and put their well being at risk. I don't know if banning them is the answer but I will shed no tears if they were.

how is saying that any different for saying blacks are criminals, or Mexicans are illegals?

[Zatch]

They shouldn't be banned but it should definitely be illegal to not have them chained up. I'm sick of idiots who leave their dogs unchained so that you can't even walk around your neighborhood without fear of some dog running out into the street towards you and threatening you. Guess what? As soon as your aggressive dog leaves your property line he's fair game. I reserve the right to beat it to death with a baseball bat.

:toady:

[tod evans]

I'm sick of people who choose to live on top of one another bitching about their neighbors behavior:(
If you don't like how your neighbors behave try talking to them, if that doesn't work then move.
Expecting "government" of any form to address your own short comings is foolish, expecting them to address somebody else's short comings is even more foolish!

[brandon]

How did that pack of Pit Bulls get inside the girls home?

And what were those girls doing to the dogs before the "attack".

I knew 2 guys that got torn up by a Pit Bull. A very pleasant dog the was highly protective of the small child in the home.
They were fucking with the dog,, one holding its tail and the other smacking it's face. The dog had enough and fucked them both up in about 3 seconds.

99% of dog "attacks" have a reason.

It was one of the girls house and they were her dogs - the parents weren't home. The girls were only around 12 years old. They weren't doing anything to the dogs but even if they were I don't think it would change the situation. The dogs were locked up in a different room and managed to break free and started attacking.

Your statistic is completely made up and frankly I think you trying to shift the blame in dog attacks to the children and toddlers they attack is fucked up.

I have another friend who has a generally well behaved pit bull. We went hiking one weekend and while a guy was passing us on the trail, the dog bit him in the ass. No reason. Came out of nowhere.

[brandon]

That's great, but circumstantial evidence doesn't hold up in a court of law, and shouldn't be the basis of any law. Just like a warm winter doesn't prove man-made global warming - in fact, 50 warm winters out of 70 still wouldn't prove man-made global warming - neither does your experience form the basis of a credible argument to ban an entire breed of animal.

Forming a law on the basis of this sort of circumstantial evidence leads to all sorts of wrong conclusions and is particularly dangerous because it's a form of collective thinking. Generalizations can't be made on the basis of simple observation, whether it's with dogs ("pits are vicious dogs") or with terrorism ("Muslims are mostly terrorists").

He was just sharing his opinion. This is an internet forum, not a court room. If your read the rest of his paragraph he concludes by saying he doesn't know if banning them is the right answer.

[jkob]

how is saying that any different for saying blacks are criminals, or Mexicans are illegals?

That is a ridiculous analogy. Dogs aren't people.

My point is the breed is extremely dangerous when not properly taken care of and still unpredictable when it is due to its natural breed traits. Jack Russell terriers or dachshunds(another dog I've had some bad personal experiences with) might be more aggressive on average but they can't really hurt you. When a pit bull is aggressive, they can seriously hurt or even kill someone and there isn't much you can do to stop them. Bad owners might make bad dogs but bad owners are attracted to this breed for whatever reason. How do you go about stopping this?

[torchbearer]

humans are the most dangerous animal by far, they should ban them first.

[The Free Hornet]

As a public service, I am reposting the pitbull identification charts. Please have these animals destroyed:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1188&d=1327444263

http://i43.tinypic.com/2nuinow.png

1188

[thehungarian]

Update!

So a forum was held yesterday where the townsfolk could come and voice their opinion and participation was overwhelming. There were about 100+ people that wanted to speak, but only about 30 of them got to. Every single one of them came out against the proposal and many even threatened to leave the city if it were enacted. The city coucil squashed the idea right there.

Yay, my town.